Is Islam the true enemy of peace?

[SteveMetch]

Is Islam the true enemy of peace?

Comments for and against

[Adversary2Arabs]

Islam, no. Arabs, yes. They want nothing more than another "Final Solution."

[elke]

I would refine it further:

Islam per se is not the true enemy of peace. Neither is the Mohammed Shmo ;) in the so-called "Arab Street". The true enemies of peace are the olygarchies, or outright monarchies, of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, and most of all, Iraq. In addition, the schizophrenic government of Iran is also in on this.

Majority of people will go wherever they are led. When one reads "blood libel" in the Saudi Government's newspaper, what can you expect that Shmo to think? It's the failure - or rather, success - that the leaderships of these countries have had, that's responsible for the "Arab Street" sentiments, not the other way around.

[L@mplighterM]

Yes!

[Musket Man]

Someone beat me to it, but, 'YES'!!

Remember, it was militant muslims who killed 3,000 Americans on 9-11!

Remember, also, it is militant Islamist clerics who continually call for 'death' to someone, usually, the US and Israel. Now, I understand they want to go after Hindus as well.

We have been conditioned by the media to think that Islam is peaceful.

Islam is not a peaceful religion. It has as its primary goal the conquest of the world by the sword if necessary.

There is no negotiating with a people who are so determined to commit themselves to war.

[thatwhy]

Pro-Israel supporters all over the world, (including arabrule aka yongwah, a Chinese Sinkaporean trying to be a Jew named, yeezevee – hehe), will say that Israel won the war in 6 days spectacularly against its Arab neighbours in 1967.

What these people do not know is that Israel deliberately attacked an American Ship, but cleverly disguised the attack. Israel made it look like it was launched by one of its Arab neighbours. The intent was to draw US into attacking its enemies for it.

Today, more evidence is out. In spite of that, the US is still protecting its godson, Israel, who has committed treason against its protector.

Below are two articles that tell us the hidden story. A hidden story that Israel - and the US govt - have been trying to cover up for more than 30 years.


-----

From BBC. (bold words are my highlights)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/dead_in_the_water.shtml

During the Six-Day War, Israel attacked and nearly sank the USS Liberty belonging to its closest ally, the USA. Thirty-four American servicemen were killed in the two-hour assault by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats. Israel claimed that the whole affair had been a tragic accident based on mistaken identification of the ship. The American government accepted the explanation.

For more than 30 years many people have disbelieved the official explanation but have been unable to rebut it convincingly. Now, Dead in the Water uses startling new evidence to reveal the truth behind the seemingly inexplicable attack. The film combines dramatic reconstruction of the events, with new access to former officers in the US and Israeli armed forces and intelligence services who have decided to give their own version of events.

Interviews include President Lyndon Johnson's Secretary of Defence Robert McNamara, former head of the Israeli navy Admiral Shlomo Errell and members of the USS Liberty crew.

-------------


The next link is from the Washing Report. This report is more scathing.

(bold words are my highlights)

http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0693/9306019.htm

Excepts:

Twenty-six years have passed since that clear day on June 8, 1967 when Israel attacked the USS Liberty with aircraft and torpedo boats, killing 34 young men and wounding 171. The attack in international waters followed over nine hours of close surveillance. Israeli pilots circled the ship at low level 13 times on eight different occasions before attacking. Radio operators in Spain, Lebanon, Germany and aboard the ship itself all heard the pilots reporting to their headquarters that this was an American ship. They attacked anyway. And when the ship failed to sink, the Israeli government concocted an elaborate story to cover the crime.

There is no question that this attack on a U.S. Navy ship was deliberate. This was a coordinated effort involving air, sea, headquarters and commando forces attacking over a long period. It was not the "few rounds of misdirected fire" that Israel would have the world believe. Worse, the Israeli excuse is a gross and detailed fabrication that disagrees entirely with the eyewitness recollections of survivors. Key American leaders call the attack deliberate. More important, eyewitness participants from the Israeli side have told survivors that they knew they were attacking an American ship.

….snip….

Former Secretary of State Dean Rusk is equally outspoken, calling the attack deliberate in press and radio interviews. Similarly strong language comes from top leaders of the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency (some of whose personnel were among the victims), National Security Council, and from presidential advisers such as Clark Clifford, Joseph Califano and Lucius Battle.

A top-secret analysis of Israel's excuse conducted by the Department of State found Israel's story to be untrue. Yet Israel and its defenders continue to stand by their claim that the attack was a "tragic accident" in which Israel mistook the most modern electronic surveillance vessel in the world for a rusted-out 40-year-old Egyptian horse transport.

Despite the evidence, no U.S. administration has ever found the courage to ever found the courage to defy the Israeli lobby by publicly demanding a proper accounting from Israel.

….snip….


Instead of determining whether the attack was deliberate, the Navy blocked all testimony about Israeli actions. No survivor was permitted to describe the close in machine-gun fire that continued for 40 minutes after Israel claims all firing stopped. No survivor was allowed to talk about the life rafts the Israeli torpedomen machine-gunned in the water. No survivor was permitted to challenge defects and fabrications in Israel's story. Even my eyewitness testimony as officer-of-the deck was withheld from the official record. No evidence of Israeli culpability was "found" because no such testimony was allowed. To survivors, this was not an investigation. It was a cover-up.

….snip ….

--------


Carry on reading to see how the US succumbed to Israel lobby pressure to cover up the whole story.

The above is not the only story where Israel has attacked US interests and make it look like it was done by an Arab nation or party.

Mossad, Israel’s Secret Agency Service has a motto – “By way of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War.”

How appropriate……

Dun the above cast doubts on recent attacks on American interests, which looked like it was done by Arabs? Huh? Does that included Sep 11?

[elke]

Old propaganda. Here is the reply:

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=14457#post14457

[thatwhy]

I am not a muslim. Finding most of the Posting are against the US or Israel. So I come to this forum to have a look. How come the war never end ?

[Mediocrates]

Do you have point to make other than disrupting the board? You won't find this place to be friendly to Palistinian, antisemitic, antiamerican, anitisraeli propoganda.

If you're here just to spread lies and repeat myths, trust me, what you have to say is neither new nor is it interesting.

[thatwhy]

Malay muslim that have nothing to do with ARAB except praying the same god. At south-east asia. Posting in forum everywhere to Anti-Jews and Anti-USA all the time.

I ask them to come over to this website to talk. For what ? Muslim here in South-east asia. keep on telling something that mostly people at South-east asia don't even understand at all.

To us. Here. Israel ? What ? Only know. If Israel have no peace. Stock market drop and everyone get poor in their pockets.

So I ask all the Malay muslim to come to this website. Instead of talking to us something that we don't know or understand.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by thatwhy
I am not a muslim. Finding most of the Posting are against the US or Israel. So I come to this forum to have a look. How come the war never end ?

A better question: are you able to engage in civil discussion with others, or just cut & paste propaganda?

[Rafman]

No i really don't think it is fair to generalise and say that Islam is the true ennemy of peace.

I never studied Islam (except a very broad overview in school), but by hearing people defend it they claim it is a religon based on peace, and understanding, much like christianity and Judaism are. It is fanatics who are a big pat of the Islam religion that are the most obvious ennemy to peace.

Yet, you simply cannot get rid of the fanatics if you don't get rid of the source: which is like someone said, the dictator-ish (non-democratic) governments all over the Arab world.

I mean Saudi Arabia is one of the most "moderate" Arab countries supposedly, yet it is still astounding to see how badly women are discriminated against for example. I saw on Barbara Walters a few months ago that women arent allowed to do something as simple as drive thier own cars. Human rights are ignored in those countries, and as a result everything else follows. Propaganda through 100% biast-antisemitic media spreads rapidly in that area.

I mean claims anywhere else in thw world that the Jews were responsible for September 11th would have been said to be ludicrous and riridculous, yet in the Arab world, when you have 100% of the government supported media claiming it, everyone will start to believe it, and hated towards the Jews spread out.

So to sum up, i think a big part of, if not the biggest part is the type of governments (dictatorships) that rule in the Arab countries which accounts for a lot of the hate.


P.S. this is my first post on this forum, i hope it doesnt offend/anger anyone :P

[medkorp]

HI,

Islam is not the ennemy of peace, and the arabs are not the ennemy too !

It's not because a man tell that He wants to destroy America that all arabs and muslims are terrorists or ennemy !

i know a lots of arabs and i can tell you that they want just one think ! PEACE AND WORKS


Thanks

Medkorp

[Rafman]

Originally posted by medkorp
HI,

Islam is not the ennemy of peace, and the arabs are not the ennemy too !

It's not because a man tell that He wants to destroy America that all arabs and muslims are terrorists or ennemy !

i know a lots of arabs and i can tell you that they want just one think ! PEACE AND WORKS


Thanks

Medkorp

no offence to you, but you sound like the kind of guy who would have his country attacked by an ennemy countrie's army, yet not blame the ennemy country saying it is only the leader of the country waging the war.

then that ennemy army would get closer to you, attacking your state, yet you would say its still onyl one mans fault, dont blame the whole country.

then when they attack your city, you would say the same thing, making excuses for the citizens of the ennemy country.

then when they finally get to your home, destroy your house and are about to kill you, you would realise that it was the citizens of the country who were responsible all along... 1 Man can only do so much if everyone (the citizens?) all stand up in unision against him.


The moral of the story is, of course not all the Arabs/Muslims are to blame for the lack of peace, yet most of them arent doing a damn thing to help either. they should try to counter all the propagada about Israel in the media which leads to more hate-crimes in Israel against Jews which then leads to retaliations by the Israeli government and destroys hopes of peace.

Basically what im trying to tell you is that, 95% of Americans probably hold the exact same opinion as you, and thats it theyre satisfied by it. But holding that opinion isn't enough, not by a long shot....

[Ahmed.M.K]

hi ..

see .. put ur self in a place of arabiam .. usee an arabian land stolen than every 1 says the arabs are terrorists cos they attacked isreal ..wut u think u will do ?? (& remmeber u cant say that arabs r anti-semetic cos the arabs them selv's r semetic's)
ok here is my point islam is true peacful religion but peace dosent protects any thing .so ... u must do something to protect yourself asthe da Quran says .. i hope u understand me :)

[Rafman]

Originally posted by Ahmed.M.K
hi ..

see .. put ur self in a place of arabiam .. usee an arabian land stolen than every 1 says the arabs are terrorists cos they attacked isreal ..wut u think u will do ?? (& remmeber u cant say that arabs r anti-semetic cos the arabs them selv's r semetic's)
ok here is my point islam is true peacful religion but peace dosent protects any thing .so ... u must do something to protect yourself asthe da Quran says .. i hope u understand me :)

lol no offence but i just cant stand when people say something as ridiculous as "Arabs are semetics so they ant be antisemitic"

Whats so special about the word antisemitic anyways? Fine, if you want Arab to be called Semitics, rendering them incapable of being called antisemitic, how about we just say that most Arabs are anti-Jewish, anti-jews, anti-israel....?

Calling Arabs semites doesn't protect them in the least from being seen as anti-jewish, anti-israeli...? whats the point?

[Mediocrates]

I can't be a misanthrope because I am in fact a human being. :cool:

[Ahmed.M.K]

Originally posted by Rafman


lol no offence but i just cant stand when people say something as ridiculous as "Arabs are semetics so they ant be antisemitic"

Whats so special about the word antisemitic anyways? Fine, if you want Arab to be called Semitics, rendering them incapable of being called antisemitic, how about we just say that most Arabs are anti-Jewish, anti-jews, anti-israel....?

Calling Arabs semites doesn't protect them in the least from being seen as anti-jewish, anti-israeli...? whats the point?

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooool..hehehe i didnt mean this thing lol
see most of jews say ur anti semetic also to da arabs , so i was saying this not diffrent !! .. did u get me ;)

[Mediocrates]

Uh no.

[Ahmed.M.K]

good :D

[ibrodsky]

Neither Islam nor Arabs are inherently bad.

Islam, however, is in desperate need of modernization. Like Judiasm and Christianity, Islam is subject to interpretation. Unfortunately, while Judaism and Christianity were profoundly changed by Maimonides, Aquinas, and The Enlightment, Islam is hardly different today from Islam of the 7th century.

The first step is for Muslim leaders to admit that Islam has a unique problem in that many of the world's terrorists and totalitarians claim their actions are not only consistent with Islam but required by it. While they do not represent the majority of Muslims, they represent a very large minority.

Among Arabs, like any other ethnic group, one finds the complete range of opinions. There are Arabs who support terrorism against Jews and Arabs who support Israel.

The biggest problem facing Arab countries are the dictators that keep them backwards -- often despite vast oil wealth. Just as Islam needs to be modernized, the Arab world needs to create an organized democracy movement. Many Arabs blame their dictators and/or Israel for their problems; their energy would be better directed towards fighting for individual rights, universal sufferage, equality before the law for everyone, and true freedom of speech.

[ibrodsky]

Look in the dictionary: the word "anti-semitic" means harboring animosity towards Jews.

The much parrotted Arab comeback -- "I can't be anti-semitic because I'm a semite" -- is just a rhetorical gimmick. There is widespread and deep-rooted hatred of Jews in the Arab world. It is not just criticism of Israel, as some claim, but good 'ol fashion intolerance and bigotry.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Ahmed.M.K
good :D


Flaming troll?

[Rafman]

just another thing about what i said, and this isnt to flame Ahmed so dont take it personally but...

When Jews say Arabs are antisemitic, and then they respond by saying that arabs are semitic too so they cant be antiseitic it just proves how Arabs will stop at nothing to oppose Israel no matter how lame and stupid it is. I can almost garantee everyone that there isn't one Jewish person in the world who cares whether we call Arabs antisemitic or anti-Jewish instead.

Whats the point of even arguing it? Being a semite doesn't mean you are not racist against the Jews, and spread hatred towards the Jewish people...

When someone is labelled antisemite, it means he is anti-Jewish. You don't like the word anti-semite? Then you are simply anti-Jewish....no difference....

[elke]

Originally posted by Ahmed.M.K
hi ..

see .. put ur self in a place of arabiam .. usee an arabian land stolen than every 1 says the arabs are terrorists cos they attacked isreal ..wut u think u will do ?? (& remmeber u cant say that arabs r anti-semetic cos the arabs them selv's r semetic's)
ok here is my point islam is true peacful religion but peace dosent protects any thing .so ... u must do something to protect yourself asthe da Quran says .. i hope u understand me :)

OK, Ahmed. Done. Now try to put yourself in the place of the Jews. You have been kicked out of your land. For 2000 years you were wandering the world, getting the **** kicked out of you by all these other people, any time they felt their lot was too hard. Finally comes the mother of all kicks - full 1/3 of your nation is brutally and methodically exterminated in a period of less than 15 years. As you so eloquently put it: "you must do something to protect yourself", no?

Continue...You come back to where you came from, trying to build a society that would protect you, and trying to be friends with your neighbors. Instead, your neighbors refuse any overtures you make, and attack you en masse. Again, "you must do something to protect yourself", no?

Now, you get strong enough to protect yourself. You win wars, build an economy on a par with a Western European nation, and all that under the gun of the suicide murderers who decided that your children and elderly are not worthy of living. Again, "you must do something to protect yourself", no?

You see, it cuts both ways. If you really, truly want to do something about the situation, get a peace movement going !

[WithinMySelf]

Originally posted by trainspotter18
The evils done to the Jews does not justify the evil they did to the Palestinians.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR AN EVIL ACT
Indeed… :)
Originally posted by SteveMetch
Is Islam the true enemy of peace?
Not at all!

Islam is peace!!
Muslims greet each other and others by saying; “peace be upon you”.
When we enter a Majlis (a big special room in every Arabic house, made for guests), we say: “peace be upon you all”…
We then replay for both greetings by: “and peace, God’s merci and blessings upon you too”.
When we finish praying, we look to our right shoulder and say: “peace, God’s merci and blessings upon you” to greet the angle who writes the good deeds. Then we repeat it again to greet the other one on our left shoulder, the angle who writes our bad doings.
When we come near graves, we say: “peace be upon you people of the graves, you are the formers and we are the followers”.
When we refer to any prophet, we say: “peace be upon him”.
And more…
…
So, no, Islam not the enemy of peace, nor Jews or any other ethnic groups.
I know one enemy for humans, which takes many forms…
Eblees (Satan), the coursed one who tricked our greet father Adam by encouraging him to eat the forbidden apple…
He is the true enemy of peace.
Can you fight him?
Do you have the proper weapon to fight him?
As for us, the final celestial religion, Islam, is the best weapon.
:)

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by WithinMySelf


Islam is peace!!
Muslims greet each other and others by saying; “peace be upon you”.
When we enter a Majlis (a big special room in every Arabic house, made for guests), we say: “peace be upon you all”…
We then replay for both greetings by: “and peace, God’s merci and blessings upon you too”.
When we finish praying, we look to our right shoulder and say: “peace, God’s merci and blessings upon you” to greet the angle who writes the good deeds. Then we repeat it again to greet the other one on our left shoulder, the angle who writes our bad doings.
When we come near graves, we say: “peace be upon you people of the graves, you are the formers and we are the followers”.
When we refer to any prophet, we say: “peace be upon him”.
And more…
…
So, no, Islam not the enemy of peace, nor Jews or any other ethnic groups.

The test of authenticity is not what you say but what you do.

I know one enemy for humans, which takes many forms…
Eblees (Satan), the coursed one who tricked our greet father Adam by encouraging him to eat the forbidden apple…
He is the true enemy of peace.
Can you fight him?
Do you have the proper weapon to fight him?
As for us, the final celestial religion, Islam, is the best weapon.
:)

Perhaps the Arabs who drove airplanes into the World Trade Center and killed 3,000 people -- some of them Muslims -- were doing a good deed. Or maybe they were tricked by Satan into doing evil.

Can you figure out which explanation makes most sense?

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by trainspotter18
Elke, u conveniently left out the part where you go to a land where people are already living, you diplace hundreds of thousands of them, change the demographics of the region, and expect the otherside to leave with a smile on their face.


You conveniently left out the part about how when the Zionists first arrived in the 1890s there were something like 90,000 Arabs living in what became Israel. Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire which collapsed during WW 1, and the British took over.

Many Arabs immigrated and in-migrated to the Jewish area. 70% of the land belonged not to the Arabs or Jews, but to the State.

In 1947, there were 600,000 Jews living in what become Israel, and 350,000 Arabs. The Arabs rejected the two-state solution and denied Jews their right to self-determination.

They have been attacking Israel almost continuously since 1948. They have embraced terrorism against innocent civilians... what General Zinni rightly characterized as "the most profound evil." Their supporters in Saudi Arabia flew two jet planes into office buildings killing 3,000 innocent Americans.

Now, tell us again who is evil?

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by trainspotter18

first of all ur rebuttal wasn't relevant to my post which u were responding to.

The fact that you don't know what you are talking about does not get you off the hook:

1. Jews have lived continuously in Israel since it was founded 3,000 years ago.
2. By 1850, Jews were the majority in Jerusalem.
3. When modern Zionists began arriving in the 1890s, "Palestine" was very sparsely populated. The area that later became Israel contained fewer than 100,000 Arabs. Your claim that "hundreds of thousands" of people were displaced is false.

To be more precise, the Arab population in Jewish settled areas in 1893 was 92,300.

The fact of the matter is that Jews migrated in mass to a land already occupied by another people. The people already living there didn't want them there. Many of the original inhabitants were forcibly kicked out. All of them saw their native land completely transformed by these invaders (into a 'Jewish' state).

More accurately: The fact of the matter is that Arabs migrated in mass to a land already occupied by another people. The people already living there didn't want them there. Many of the original inhabitants were forcibly kicked out. All of them saw their native land completely transformed by these invaders (into an 'Arab' state).



THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR AN EVIL ACT[/b]

Well, there are many Palestinians and their supporters who feel that evil acts are justified. In fact, they have built an entire culture around encouraging, supporting, and glorifying evil.

It's amazing that to Palestinian supporters a small strip of land is more important than human lives. Particularly given that those complaining that tiny strip of land was "stolen" came from a different place (Arabia) and already possess 99% of the land in the region.

What bothers Palestinians and their supporters is that Jews could have any land in their ancient homeland. After all, how can Muslims rebuild their glorious empire with this glaring reminder that they are not all-powerful?

This is the real problem. Pan-Arabists and Islamists dream of conquest, destroying the West, and imposing Islamic rule on non-Muslims. The fact that Jews exercised their right to self-determination right in the middle of the hoped for, reconstituted Islamic Empire is an affront to the Islamists' infantile sense of manhood.