If you were Israel

[mizpah]

What nation of people has been hounded and oppressed for centuries like the Jews? What nation has been betrayed so much by its friends? If they had not fought back from when they were given a homeland, would they be here today? How much land do the arab nations own compared with Israel? Of course there are multitudes of Palestinians who do not understand the conflict other than what they are told by their leaders. Look how successful the IRA has been ib diluting Northern Ireland as a democratic state within the UK. Ensure infiltration by a minority who claim discrimination, question the legality of the state, soften up the majority population and brutalise the corporate conscience through bombings, terrorism and murder, blame the forces of law and order for crimes against humanity, call for international interference so that the power of government is taken out of local hands, look for a peace agreenment where terrorists can be released from prison and take up government positions, disban the professional police force and ensure that a new police service is downsized and moulded to their political taste before joining the management, force the UK army to withdraw from British soil, push for public enquiries to discredit the security forces, while all this is going on deny any break in the cease fire but ensure that the terrorists are rearming and training with more modern weapons, dilute and finally destroy democracy. These are some of the tactics used by the IRA and which Prime Minister Tony Blair caved in to. Look up the latest developments and you will see that David Trimble First Minister feels betrayed by Tony Blair who broke his promises. Does it sound familar? The IRA has connections with International Terrorism. It is working for them so why should not Yasser Arafat not do the same? Israel does well not to hand over her security to globe trotting politicans who do not intend to live in Israel and who will try to make a name for themselves in the history books at the expense of the Israel. True peace is when you want your neighbour to co-exist with you.
Plotting his death is not peace.

[Leon Uris]

What nation of people has been hounded and oppressed for centuries like the Jews?


India. For a thousand years by the murderous followers of Allah and for 250 yrs by the equally murderous Christian British.

[mizpah]

Originally posted by Leon Uris
What nation of people has been hounded and oppressed for centuries like the Jews?


India. For a thousand years by the murderous followers of Allah and for 250 yrs by the equally murderous Christian British.

Comment:

We are trying to focus on Israel but you mention the followers of Allah without identfying a national heritage yet identify Britian in relation to being Christian making me wonder if you are attacking the British nationality as well as their nominal Christian identity.

Do you hate the British identity as well as their Christian attachments? That is called racial hatred and calls into question your sincerity to discuss the wrongs of man whatever the colour of his skin, his language or his creed.. India became independant in 1947 and is the worlds largest democracy with over 1,000 million people and an estimated 6,400 castes.

I am sure that you have great problems with peace and recent world news leads us to believe that you were on a war footing with Pakistan. There was mention of the possible use of nuclear weapons. Now, where were the British in all of this? Pakistan represents your Muslim enemies while you are mainly Hindu

The British were not always kind and innocent but they were your friends more than others. You need to think more fairly than you do and step outside of your box if you are to be helpful to the Middle East problem.

Again, please look at the situation of the Jews, longer than 1,000 years ago their forefathers were under attack from surrounding nations such as the Philistians - a tribe allied to the Phoenicians a primitive people who spread over Lebanon, Jordon, Crete and other Mediterranean Islands. Another emeny of Israel were the Midianites an Arabian tribe descended from Midian - meaning strife- he was the fourth son of Abraham by Keturah (Gen 25 v2 and Chr 1 v 32) His family principally inhabited the desert north of the peninsula of Arabia. These were the people to whom the brothers of Joseph sold him as a slave.

No matter how you take it the children of Israel have been in trouble from the earliest days. Can you not ask yourself why this has been so? The phenomenon is too old and lasting to just blame nationalism , religion, or family quarrels. I believe it is much deeper and is spiritual. The kingdom of Darkness is in battle with the kingdom of Light. The powers of Satan are unleashed to destroy God's plans from being fulfilled.

People take offence when it is claimed that GOD chose the children if Israel to fulfil a divine plan. This did not mean that HE placed less value on the rest of HIS creation. His vehicle of choice brought greater accountability and responsibility on Israel to carry out Jehovah's desires. You will notice that HE did not judge other nations in the same way HE punished Israel for national disobedience. Nevertheless we are living NOW and cannot redraw boundaries or change historical behaviour. Where do we start, where do we end?

The best way is for leaders is to look at the whole of humanity and realise that we all have a part to play on this earth. We must accept that in GOD's World there are many purposes and HE allows different nations to fulfil the purposes of humanity.
That may mean that you must accept a divine reason for Israel to exist in the same matter that you justify your own existance.


_______________________________________

There are many people wanting to sit on God's throne

[Leon Uris]

mizpah: Broadly agree with your views.

No, I am not attacking the Christian Identity of the British. Just wanted to assert that we have been ruled by faiths not of our own. Thats all.

I am quite familiar with the gruesome details of the Holocaust. Wanted to let you know that even the Holocaust pales in comparison to the death toll in the Indian sub-continent during Muslim and British rules. Estimates range around 5-15 million from 970 AD on due to Islamic atrocities and around 5-10 million during the British Rule.

It should be noted that these deaths occurred over a period of time and were not in the short span of time as happened with the Holocaust.

I also understand that you want to concentrate on issues related to Jews/Israel. However, you did pose the question "What nation of people has been hounded and oppressed for centuries like the Jews?" and hence the answer.

[thatwhy]

Impossible, even till now. The India still have look at british as a place of Hi-tech and first option to move to.

All my India friends like British. Plan to go there for education. Maybe in the eyes of the europe. You see this way of India been "BULLY" by the british. But till now. The Indian no matter which part of the world respect British. Look at it like them like their "big brother".

[Simon]

I can only assume that either "thatwhy" is not an Indian or a singlulary misinformed one.

The British raped India for 250 years killing millions of innocents. Who told you we look up to them.

The US is the first destination for Indian students. I should know. I came here as one. I, and neither has any of the hundreds of students, that I met have even contemplated going to the UK.

There are students going to the UK though and most of these come from rich families who can afford to study there. For most lower-middle class students such as myself, there is only one choice:USA.

And it is extremely insulting to me as an Indian that someone tells me that Indians look to the British as an elder brother. Are you FU##ING stupid or something? This is really an insulting comments.

It is the equivalent of saying that the Jews look to Nazis like an elder brother. Are you related to the Nazis by any chance? God, what a dork!!

[mizpah]

Originally posted by Simon
I can only assume that either "thatwhy" is not an Indian or a singlulary misinformed one.

The British raped India for 250 years killing millions of innocents. Who told you we look up to them.

The US is the first destination for Indian students. I should know. I came here as one. I, and neither has any of the hundreds of students, that I met have even contemplated going to the UK.

There are students going to the UK though and most of these come from rich families who can afford to study there. For most lower-middle class students such as myself, there is only one choice:USA.

And it is extremely insulting to me as an Indian that someone tells me that Indians look to the British as an elder brother. Are you FU##ING stupid or something? This is really an insulting comments.

COMMENT

I am sure there were British who were cruel in their deeds just as there were Indians cruel in their deeds. In your hatred for Britian and your language in describing them as rapists your do not mention those good English people who spent their life in India bringing Education, medicine and social justice. There are many Indian Doctors of medicine working in Britian and they are looked on as good at medicine, just as there are Indian businessmen helping the British Economy.

You should visit Britian and see how Indian culture is doing well with strong communities. I was not aware that so many Indians were killed so I take the point, but don't try and make me believe that wrong and dreadful deeds were not committed by Indians. The point has been made for me that the time scale and focused ferocity of persecution against the Jews is a factor that makes their position unique compared to India.

You lift America up as the Utopia for Indian students, I wonder why? There are parts of America with a coloured racial hatred problem. There are all white churches and all black churches. You should apply to a university in Britian and you will be surprised how liberal they are. I wonder if you have explored the grant system which I would have thought was more generous than America who is loathe to subsidise anything. You are right to say that the elite in India come to England as English Universities are among the best on the world.

Again India is pleased to be part of the commonwealth and as a great nation is a good partner for Britian to have. I think you may find that the world has moved on to tackle current problems facing humanity. As an admirer of America you will have to decide which lobby you belong to i.e. PRO-ISRAEL or the ANTI-ISRAEL. If you find out the mind of America, let us know. Do what Mediocrates talks about and read good books when you are there.

_____________________________________

As in water face answereth to face, so the heart of man to man
Proverbs 27 v 19







It is the equivalent of saying that the Jews look to Nazis like an elder brother. Are you related to the Nazis by any chance? God, what a dork!!

[mizpah]

[B]mizpah: Broadly agree with your views.

No, I am not attacking the Christian Identity of the British. Just wanted to assert that we have been ruled by faiths not of our own. Thats all.

I am quite familiar with the gruesome details of the Holocaust. Wanted to let you know that even the Holocaust pales in comparison to the death toll in the Indian sub-continent during Muslim and British rules. Estimates range around 5-15 million from 970 AD on due to Islamic atrocities and around 5-10 million during the British Rule.

It should be noted that these deaths occurred over a period of time and were not in the short span of time as happened with the Holocaust.

I also understand that you want to concentrate on issues related to Jews/Israel. However, you did pose the question "What nation of people has been hounded and oppressed for centuries like the Jews?" and hence the answer.

Comment

Was not aware so many Indians were killed but also not sure if all the blame and carnage can be attributed to the British. Nevertheless your point about the time scale and ferocity against the Jews is a good one. The time is coming when most of the world will be against Israel - well if you like me believe the prophets. That is something only time will tell. If it happens - we are back to square one - where some evil unity is trying to remove the Jews from the earth. Your comment is appreciated.


___________________________________________

Except those days be shortened, there should no flesh be saved, but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew ch 24 v 22

[Simon]

Mizpah: thank you. We may not see eye to eye on every single issue but at least there is no dishonesty in our exchange of views.

[leftwinglinks69]

Israel is the worlds last outpost of apartheid. In Israel citizens who are not Jews are required to carry identification cards designating them as non-Jews, non-Jews cannot acquire land or buy or rent homes in most of the country, they are not eligible for service in the armed forces and therefore denied the important state benefits which are attached to performing military service. Not only does Israel subject all non-Jews to these human rights abuses, Israeli law also bans any political party or legislation calling for equal rights for non-Jews. Israel's worst practice is prehaps the legalized of torture as part of the interiogation process in dealing with Palestinians; Jews are not allowed to be tortured, only non-Jews. It is now standard practice in Israel to handcuff, blindfold, insult and beat, and often further torture Palestinian prisoners, including small children.

AND YOU WONDER WHY ISRAEL IS HATED?!?!?!

HERE'S WHAT I'D DO IF I WERE ISRAEL -

Make all non-Jews equal citizens, stop the abuse and torture and grant Palestians the right of return, then the suicide bombing would stop I'm sure. Zionism is racism. Oh yeah, and I think Israel should right the past wrongs, you know like after the second world war Nazi's were hunted down and tried for war crimes, the same should happen to people like Ariel Sharon. One justice is done then you might just get peace. Germany got rid of its evil Nazi past this way and Israel should do the same, make amends and stop being racist.

[Vic]

Originally posted by leftwinglinks69
[standard copy&paste stuff]Long live the "ignore" function :) :) :)

[elke]

Watch out, Leftwings! Any further left, and you'll fall off the turnip truck! :rolleyes:

[Mediocrates]

If you were Palistan:

OK - the IDF pulls out 100% and all the Jews of Yesha leave. Cats lie with dogs, manna falls from heaven and the Cubs win the World Series. It's the land of goat's milk and honey flavored felafel.

Flash foward to the summer of 2007 - 60 months from now, about 1800 days.

What does Palistan look like? How does it work, how well is it working out for them? What is their economy based on, who is running the show, how do people make their livings, and what standard of living do they have?

Try to be specific because even wizards can see detailed events in the future. And oh - - - none of this "It would be paradise, except.....&.....&.....&....&....&....&" No contingencies, exogenous events, deu ex machina, complaining allowed.

Your move.

[Teacake]

Mulims have been murdering Indians for centuries along side Jews and the rest.

And trainspotter thinks Jews are just trying to make muslims look bad? Look at their history in India! Astounding.

http://www.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum210/tml/IndiaTML/indiatml4.htm

http://www.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum210/tml/IndiaTML/indiatml2.htm

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by leftwinglinks69
Zionism is racism.

"Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism" - Martin Luther King, Jr.

So if you're anti-Zionist, then you're the racist here.