Religious interpretation of heaven.

[Mr. Pumps]

Is Heaven a meeting place or more individualized.

[Moon]

Lol the army expert wants to know about heaven :D
As far as I know there's no concept of hell or heaven in judaism, is it?

Anyway, maybe this will interest you:
Eden, Paradise, Heaven, Edenism (http://yahoodi.com/peace/edenism.html)
What is Edenism?
How does Edenism motivate Muslims in their relations with non-Muslims?
How is Edenism the driving force of Marxism?
How is Edenism related to antisemitism?
How is Edenism responsible for internal Jewish divisions?

[Mr. Pumps]

:) Well Mooney what is the different between a man living in a one-room shack and a Rich man living in a 1000 room palace?

In a Nuke War, they both mean nothing.

[Mediocrates]

I forget where - it was probably a piece on the front page middle column WSJ; the 'light' articles. But it described a cross cultural study that asked the question 'what does heaven look like, how do you think it works?'

The answers came from a wide range of cultures. For example one common theme from India, from people who understood the question, was that heaven a huge bureaucracy with a big building with millions of people on line to go in and get things done. The analysis of this was that our imagination of concepts like heaven are shaped by our day to day understanding of the world around us. This sort of makes sense if you look hard at the Western European Protestant rural bucolic lifestyle of the last 150 years. Heaven is something like that but better.

(In the west, the Devil didn't become a 'devilish' character until the Black Death. Before that, in the art of the day he was like an angel. You can see this in Byzantic religious art. Last month's BBC History magazine had an article on this.)

[elke]

"...For example one common theme from India, from people who understood the question, was that heaven a huge bureaucracy with a big building with millions of people on line to go in and get things done..."

:D Maybe, they should try the INS office in a large US city? That way, they don't even have to die to get to that heaven!

[Mediocrates]

Well that's part of it. If your world is shaped by the structures and forces around you then your view of the other world is shaped the same way. In other words, heaven is not about what you want or think you deserve, it's about what you know and how you live now. I'm sure that for Medievel peasants heaven had something to do with getting fed and going to church and hearing nice music.

[Mr. Pumps]

Well I understand the Heaven and Hell bit, but actually being there is it just a extension of personal meeting places or more personalized and catering suiting to ones needs and wishes.

[sharonbn]

Originally posted by Moon
As far as I know there's no concept of hell or heaven in judaism, is it?

hmmm....
I always thought these concepts actually originated in Judaism. Eden is actually a hebrew word. Hell is called in Hebrew Gehenom and also Sh'ol. Also, Satan is mentioned in the bible (the whole book of Job is about the struggle of God and Satan.)

From what I read, the concept of heaven and hell were created to answer the question of "good man who feels bad and evil man who feels good", meaning why is it good to follow religious laws when there is no immediate benefit, and those who sin abviously enjoy life far more ;)

[Mediocrates]

http://www.aishdas.org/webshas/emunah/gehennom.htm

Ghennon doesn't seem so much a place as a condition or state.

[Vic]

Originally posted by Moon
As far as I know there's no concept of hell or heaven in judaism, is it? Not in the very palpable, physical sense as in Christianity, especially in some of the more traditional views of it. Modern-day Christianity tends AFAIK to a more abstract concept, coming in this respect closer to Judaism.

[sharonbn]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Ghennon doesn't seem so much a place as a condition or state.

well, although (like hell) the word Gehennom can describe a state, it is indeed used to ttitle a place.
Taken from your link:
Details of the valley known as "The Valley of Ben Hinom" (a very beautiful valey nested below the walls of Jerusalem old city, near the Cinemateque)
Gehennom is also titled "Yam Kol [Sea of All]" because so many go there:
Gehennom is also known as "Be'er Shachat" meaning "well of misfortune"
Gehennom is also known as "Bor Shaon" meaning "pit of noise"
Gehennom is also known as "Tzalmavet" meaning "valley of death"
Gehennom is also known as "Eretz haTachtit" meaning "land of below"

[Mediocrates]

To me those are places that souls wind up because of something they did/did not do. Dante's Hell is not really a place but an apt condition of what you failed to do in life. Like Kafka's 'The Penal Colony' where the name of your crime is carved in your back.

Anyway I'm not a Talmudic scholar I only offer these as one way of looking at it as opposed to white clouds, harps-n-halos.

Anyway Satan gets all the good lines in Milton's 'Paradise Lost' so that view is that which is most Satanic is also most human. And Milton memorized the Torah and the Christian Bible so I'll accept that knew something about the subject.

[Mediocrates]

postscript: there is nothing 'personal' about it. I think that is purely a Chrisitian convention. There is in Judaism no notion of an expanded or enhanced personal relationship with God upon death.

[Vic]

Let's call it intellectual Christianity vs. folkloristic Christianity

[Mr. Pumps]

Is Moses and the Ten Commandments followed in the Talmud as in the Bible. Follow the 10 sayings of God or rot in the underworld.

How come islam uses a Moon as it's symbol, isn't Allah the Moon God so Islam is not truely a one god Religion.

Edenism, Utopianism and the like are a bunch of dead Theologies created by dreamers for no society has ever been perfect and will ever be perfect.

[cerulean]

The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven.
John Milton: Paradise Lost, book i. line 253.

Of course, this is said by Satan to his minions after he gets cast out of heaven, so why should we believe him.

===
There's also the idea that humans are themselves responsible for making paradise on earth.

[Moon]

Always learning... I should be practicing my hebrew and open the Torah once in a while, instead of wasting time and money on the internet. :rolleyes: So much I'm loosing I'm sure..
Originally posted by Mr. Pumps
Edenism, Utopianism and the like are a bunch of dead Theologies created by dreamers for no society has ever been perfect and will ever be perfect. No, no, no... You think societies haven't evolved at least a bit all this time? If they did evolve, it means we're going somewhere. One should not give up of this journey by saying "we'll never get there..."

[Mr. Pumps]

What we are doing now is foolhardy, God created life not us Humans, yet we manipulate at this the very foundation the Creator started. Is Genetic manipulation a brave decision or foolish path to continue on?

[elke]

Oh, come on, Mr. Pumps! Wouldn't you let your kids play with toys appropriate to their age and mental development? Humans bumble a lot, granted, but we are really not that bad, collectively speaking. After all, we do usually manage to get ourselves out of the jams our busy fingers get us into.

We can't afford not to meddle with this kind of stuff: our survival as a species depends on it. We just need to be careful and cognizant of our limitations and the dangers involved.

[Mr. Pumps]

Someone past on a word of sorry from me to Iori Yagami.

I, in a old post mistook him for a Shinoist living in Israel and compared him to a polar bear in a coal shed, but I regret the Nickname was for the liking of Japanese Anime and he was really a Israeli.