Hamas was ready to declare truce before Gaza raid: leader

[Formula]

The title in itself is a joke. :rolleyes:

Full Article (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/24/1027497355669.html)

Any comments?

[minusthejihad]

Sure they were! Oh I could just see it:

Hey Saleh, remember how we said we would kill Jews for the rest of our lives?

Yes Ammed, its been a lot of fun, hasn't it? Especially because the world thinks we're , get this, the victims.

Both laugh histerically.....

Anyway Saleh, maybe we should stop killing Jews and get real jobs.

Ammed, that's a great idea, but what would we do?

Saleh, You're right, where would our funding go?

Well, you could be a falafel maker and I don't know, I always thought I could be a, .......

Spit it out Saleh!

Well, a dancer. That's what I always wanted to be. You know, with the tights.

What a great idea, let's call a cease fire! Hey...... what's that F-16 doing near your house?

Huh? OH NO! (Luckily I fortified myself in a nursery, this will look great!) Praised me Allah!

[cerulean]

How many days, I wonder, before Europeans pick up this line?

[Formula]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
Sure they were! Oh I could just see it:

Hey Saleh, remember how we said we would kill Jews for the rest of our lives?

Yes Ammed, its been a lot of fun, hasn't it? Especially because the world thinks we're , get this, the victims.

Both laugh histerically.....

Anyway Saleh, maybe we should stop killing Jews and get real jobs.

Ammed, that's a great idea, but what would we do?

Saleh, You're right, where would our funding go?

Well, you could be a falafel maker and I don't know, I always thought I could be a, .......

Spit it out Saleh!

Well, a dancer. That's what I always wanted to be. You know, with the tights.

What a great idea, let's call a cease fire! Hey...... what's that F-16 doing near your house?

Huh? OH NO! (Luckily I fortified myself in a nursery, this will look great!) Praised me Allah!

Hahahahah...man! im crying over here...

[elke]

Originally posted by Formula
The title in itself is a joke. :rolleyes:

Full Article (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/24/1027497355669.html)

Any comments?

Big of 'em. :rolleyes:

[ibrodsky]

The claim that Hamas was about to call a halt to terrorist attacks is typical Palestinian terrorist propaganda. They did talk about a possible halt recently, but only the naive would believe it was due to a change of heart. It was, in fact, because Hamas has been taking heavy losses as of late. The desire to stop Israel from killing and capturing their evil leaders is the only motivation these mass murderers had for calling a halt.

The real purpose of such a halt is plain: to stop Israeli attacks on their leaders and to re-arm and resupply for the next wave of suicide/homicide attacks.

There is an excellent editorial in today's Wall Street Journal about assassinating terrorists and civilian casualties. The author, a Mr. Peters. warns that the West better become comfortable with hunting down and killing these vermin wherever they hide. He puts the blame for civilian deaths squarely on Shehada, who tried to protect himself by hiding among children.

[danholo]

Originally posted by Formula
The title in itself is a joke. :rolleyes:

Full Article (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/24/1027497355669.html)

Any comments?

Yes, and pigs can fly!

[peacelover]

:rolleyes:

So what do you propose to do if everytime there is talk of a ceasfire you dismiss it? What is your road to peace? Keep sanctioning the blowing up of sleeping 2 month old babies until there are no Palestinians left?

Face it - Sharon will do anything to stop there being peace. Mohammed Abu Hamoud? Remember him? Sharton won't negotiate and never will because he wants nothing less than transfer and claiming eretz israel right to the Jordan river. Well, keep dreaming Ariel.

And you want to talk about propaganda? How about Israel's current insult to the world's intelligence - that they didn't know there would be civilian casulaties!! ha ha f***ing ha. What do you expect when you drop a 1ton bomb on a residential area?

Israel deliberately dropped that bomb on a civilian area - it fully knew what it was doing. Alll you need to work out that the area was residential is a pair of eyes - and I'm damn sure that Israel would have spent a while checking out that area. And IF they hadn't examined the area they were about to blitz, then what the hell are they doing dropping bombs on it?

[elke]

Bill Press, on tonight's "Hardball" had the balls to say that "a group related to Arafat called for a cease fire, and Israel ignored it!" What a twit! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Formula]

Originally posted by peacelover
:rolleyes:

So what do you propose to do if everytime there is talk of a ceasfire you dismiss it? What is your road to peace? Keep sanctioning the blowing up of sleeping 2 month old babies until there are no Palestinians left?

Yes thats exactly it! :rolleyes:

Face it - Sharon will do anything to stop there being peace. Mohammed Abu Hamoud? Remember him? Sharton won't negotiate and never will because he wants nothing less than transfer and claiming eretz israel right to the Jordan river. Well, keep dreaming Ariel.

Yeah, sharon is a mad man! He doesnt want peace! He just wants those suicide bombers to keep on coming in and killing Israeli civilians! Yeah! That makes sense!

Sharon is smart - he's learned who to trust, and who not to.

And you want to talk about propaganda? How about Israel's current insult to the world's intelligence - that they didn't know there would be civilian casulaties!! ha ha f***ing ha. What do you expect when you drop a 1ton bomb on a residential area?

They thought the house was empty. But it wasnt - the Terrorist leader had purposly put himself in an area sheilded by children - so in an event similar to which took place, there would be casualities, and the whole world would cry a ****ing river.

But thats all bs, right? The only reason the Israelis bombed that area was so they could kill children! those damn Palestinian children! It was just a coincidence that there happend to be a Terrorist inside that same building.

Israel deliberately dropped that bomb on a civilian area - it fully knew what it was doing. Alll you need to work out that the area was residential is a pair of eyes - and I'm damn sure that Israel would have spent a while checking out that area. And IF they hadn't examined the area they were about to blitz, then what the hell are they doing dropping bombs on it?

I agree, Israel did know what it was doing - killing the "osama" of Hamas.

So anyways, when are all those europeans going to condem those recent attacks which caused 5 Israeli deaths? You know? The ones that were purposly aimed killing innocent civilians?

[Formula]

Originally posted by elke
Bill Press, on tonight's "Hardball" had the balls to say that "a group related to Arafat called for a cease fire, and Israel ignored it!" What a twit!

HardBall sucks, plain and simple :)

[minusthejihad]

Hey Peacelover,

Glad you're back for more denial, misinterpretation, and angry tirades. I kinda missed your moderate tone, of course until the last post.

Can you go back a couple pages and read my hypothetical conversation between Yassin and Saleh, it's fu***** hilarious!

And, do you really think that bombing civilians is something Israel wants to do when all eyes are on them and it would make Israel look bad? Of course not. Doing that makes them look as bad as the terrorists and does not help their cause. What happened was a mistake, and I don't doubt that Saleh had shielded himself with civilians, including lots of children. And I also wouldn't put it past a mastermind terrorist to store tons of his own explosives in his building either. Have you ever heard of a chain reaction explosion.

By the way....

Shehadeh operated from a heavily populated neighborhood, precisely
because he knew the civilians would serve as a human shield against any
Israeli attempt to assassinate him.

Writing in the NY Post ("Hamas Kills Its Own" - July 24 -
http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/53201.htm), John Podhoretz declares that responsibility for the civilian casualties lies with the dead terrorist himself. Podhoretz explains:

"The Fourth Geneva Convention goes into great and elaborate detail about how to assign fault when military activities take place in civilian areas... Hamas is at war with Israel. But instead of separating themselves from the general population in military camps and wearing uniforms, as required by international law, Hamas members and other Palestinian terrorists try to use civilians -- the "protected persons" mentioned in [The Fourth Geneva Convention] 3:1:28 -- as living camouflage. To prevent such a thing from happening, international law explicitly gives Israel the right to conduct military operations against military targets under these circumstances."

Shouldn't you be mad at these terrorists for using their children and women and elderly as camoflauge and shields?

[Mediocrates]

Let's say he was, and let's call what happened to him justice.

Let's say on the way to the police station to turn himself in, John Wayne Gacy was killed by a cop. So?

[Vic]

Originally posted by cerulean
How many days, I wonder, before Europeans pick up this line? Why is everyone so terribly worried about the Europeans, if they are as insignificant as many Americans and Israelis try to make out, I wonder? ;)

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Vic
Why is everyone so terribly worried about the Europeans, if they are as insignificant as many Americans and Israelis try to make out, I wonder? ;)

They provide grim amusement! I also don't think they are necessarily insignificant, either. There's NATO, the EU, the UN, the World Bank, etc. -- and Europeans are important to all of those.

[Mediocrates]

Well the titular head of Hamas made noises to that effect but none of the following was explained, discussed, elaborated on:

1 A truce when
2 A truce from whom
3 Where would a truce exist
4 What would be demanded in return
5 By when would those demands have to be met

and so on....

In other words they made statements there were essentially meaningless.

I am planning to move to Maryland some day - don't none of you buy a house there until after I do. That kind of truce.

[Vic]

Originally posted by cerulean
They provide grim amusement! I also don't think they are necessarily insignificant, either. There's NATO, the EU, the UN, the World Bank, etc. -- and Europeans are important to all of those. Thou sayeth it...

But look at it closer: none of the organisations you listed play any serious role for Israel. The NATO is AFAIK absolutely uninvolved in the Middle East and prefers to keep it this way, the others harm Israel more by supporting Palestinians than in any other way. The positive contacts Israel has with Europe function usually on an institution-to-institution level (between businesses, universities etc.). Above it - nothing goes, it seems. Call it a paradox. Some Foreign Ministries and top-level EU representatives talk their talk, and meanwhile Israeli books stay on European bestseller lists.

Maybe Israelis - and Jews in general - pay too much attention to words, get too easily hurt by them, a vulnerability the rest of the world recognizes and is all too happy to use? Then, there is, of course, the "template theory": http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=18417#post18417

[rhodescholar]

Originally posted by Vic
Thou sayeth it...

But look at it closer: none of the organisations you listed play any serious role for Israel. The NATO is AFAIK absolutely uninvolved in the Middle East and prefers to keep it this way, the others harm Israel more by supporting Palestinians than in any other way. The positive contacts Israel has with Europe function usually on an institution-to-institution level (between businesses, universities etc.). Above it - nothing goes, it seems. Call it a paradox. Some Foreign Ministries and top-level EU representatives talk their talk, and meanwhile Israeli books stay on European bestseller lists.

Maybe Israelis - and Jews in general - pay too much attention to words, get too easily hurt by them, a vulnerability the rest of the world recognizes and is all too happy to use? Then, there is, of course, the "template theory": http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=18417#post18417

Over 70% of israeli trade is with europe. if that stopped, israel no longer exists. Thats the primary reason the Transfer Plan, while getting ever more support of late, has never been seriously considered by the Israeli govt.

To add insult to injury, today the EU released about $10 million US to support the starving pal children. What timing for the european idiots. They are still claiming that there "is no substantial evidence' that arafat/the pa used their funds for terrorism. How did arafat pay the tanzim suicide bombers than?

And what about the fact that families in israel with murdered breadwinners usually end up with almost nothing from the financially strapped israeli govt? Why arent the european filth helping them out?

[elke]

Originally posted by Vic

Maybe Israelis - and Jews in general - pay too much attention to words, get too easily hurt by them, a vulnerability the rest of the world recognizes and is all too happy to use? Then, there is, of course, the "template theory": http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=18417#post18417

Maybe so... "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me!"

Except that they do. :mad:

[Vic]

Originally posted by elke
Maybe so... "Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never hurt me!"

Except that they do. :mad: You are right, of course. They do. What I meant was that it might be a good idea from a purely pragmatical point of view to reverse the trend: first, to differentiate between words and deeds and, second, to learn to use the other side's main weapon, words, against it.






Originally posted by rhodescholar
Over 70% of israeli trade is with europe. if that stopped, israel no longer exists. I don't have such numbers. What I know is that Israel imports from Europe much more than it exports there, and that the imports are mostly non-vital consumer goods (cars, textiles etc.). I will be grateful for more information.
To add insult to injury, today the EU released about $10 million US to support the starving pal children. What timing for the european idiots. They are still claiming that there "is no substantial evidence' that arafat/the pa used their funds for terrorism. How did arafat pay the tanzim suicide bombers than?We have been discussing the subjest in a different thread. I believe that it pays to take a closer look at the European political structures and act accordingly, rather that rave along about the "filthy Europeans" at any occassion that presents itself.

In this specific case, the EU Commissioner for Foreign Relations, Chris Patten, and, more specifically, his foreign aid policy, is becoming more and more of a problem for many EU nations. One of the main points you should understand is that he operates from a mainly bureaucratic structure, currently outside of any serious democratic control - all the more so since foreign policy is not exactly a priority for the EU. Given the size of the EU budget (close to 100 billion Euro - cf. http://europa.eu.int/comm/budget/pubfin/index_en.htm ), the aid to the Palestinians is more or less his personal pocket money.

Therefore, the best way to go for Israel and its supporters is to raise the issue as much as possible in public, naming the explicit names, positions and transgressions - an occassion missed more than one time. The most shining example was the publication of a large article by a German weekly on Arafat's mususe of EU aid, which went virtually unnoticed outside of the German-speaking world - making it easier for the EU to drop the subject.
And what about the fact that families in israel with murdered breadwinners usually end up with almost nothing from the financially strapped israeli govt? Why arent the european filth helping them out?Agree, even if you might control your language better. As suggested elsewhwere, maybe the American government should make a first step in this direction, assigning funds for Israel specifically for humanitarian purposes? I see a good chance that others will follow, it is more a psychological matter than anything else. Of course it would be equally important to stop any US aid to the Palestinians and - again - demand that the EU does the same.

Btw., the AFAIK biggest single donor to the Palestinians is Japan of all the places. One hardly hears anything about what happens to their aid :confused:

[lotev]

I have to say I agree that there was very little chance Hamas was actually thinking peace in the last few weeks -- if anything, it was another tool to attack Sharon.

But let's be honest -- to most Americans Sharon is fairly bullet-proof (a brave leader braving a storm of fanatical resistance -- hoping only to protect his country from the storm of uncivilized Arabs bent on hurting innocent settlers).

Please -- propoganda is what it is. And Hamas can dish it out as much as the American media.

War is war.

[Vic]

Originally posted by lotev
I have to say I agree that there was very little chance Hamas was actually thinking peace in the last few weeks -- if anything, it was another tool to attack Sharon.

But let's be honest -- to most Americans Sharon is fairly bullet-proof (a brave leader braving a storm of fanatical resistance -- hoping only to protect his country from the storm of uncivilized Arabs bent on hurting innocent settlers).

Please -- propoganda is what it is. And Hamas can dish it out as much as the American media.

War is war. Hamas at war with the "American media"? LOL

*sees the next report on a bomb-making NYT editor coming*