View Full Version : The silence that tells the story
NewsGuy
07-26-2002, 10:01 AM
Since its newfound shock at the horrors of civilians being killed as a result of the war against terrorism, the international community suddenly fell silent in the past few days.
Yesterday, a Rabbi was shot dead by Palestinian murderers while driving in his car, and another motorist was seriously wounded. No comment from the formerly outraged international community.
Today, 4 Israeli motorists were shot dead by Palestinian murderers, including one child. In addition to the dead, another 12 year-old child and a 2 year-old infant were injured by the Arab terrorist attack. Again, no comment from the formerly outraged international community.
The hypocrisy of the critics of Israel's self-defense counter-attack against the Palestinian terrorist war, is once again shown by the silence that follows the mass murder of Jews.
So where are all those who crawled out of the woodworks recently to proclaim that when Palestinians are inadvertently killed, "it is the worst... most inhuman act EVER seen..." But today, when it's back to terrorism as usual, there is only an awkward silence. The shameless holier-than-thou crew of terrorism supporters is again MIA (missing in action).
This leads to only one conclusion, i.e., that for the international community, the lives of Jewish victims are meaningless and do merit any outrage at their terrible loss. But on the other hand, for these people, Israel's attempts to prevent further massacres of Jews is "inhuman."
minusthejihad
07-26-2002, 10:20 AM
That would be my interpretation. I wonder what justification these terror supporters have for this?
Phillip, Northlander, Peacelover, Droberts, Labeeb, WithinMyself?
alexbmn
07-26-2002, 11:36 AM
ok although even today's attack falls woefully short of the rivers of blood promised by the Pals it troubles me that the are able to conduct drive by shooting in the territories with ease.I assume they must be coming from one of the smaller villages which until now have not been under curfew.I've read however that today the IDF imposed curfew on a small village from where I assume the killers came from.
NewsGuy
07-26-2002, 01:20 PM
Yes, the Arab terrorists' technique is hiding by the side of the road in ambush, and then aiming their rifles or machine guns at the heads of the Israeli motorists and then intentionally murdering the Israelis.
One incident took place in the vicinity of the Arab city of Qalqilia and one just south of Hebron.
it's obvious that for them they must believe that these attacks are in response to state sanctioned israeli "terroristic" (how they have described them) actions. why would they give israel or israelis any serious thought when they have rejected any of their issued condemnations of them in the past?
i think they look at these things in much the same way that they would probably be apologists for nny of the american indian raids on european setters in america's past.
Mediocrates
07-28-2002, 01:33 PM
What??? no calls for "the shooting to stop??"
Oh I guess that only applies to Israelis within 72 hrs of killing a terrorist.
Originally posted by NewsGuy
Since its newfound shock at the horrors of civilians being killed as a result of the war against terrorism, the international community suddenly fell silent in the past few days.
Yesterday, a Rabbi was shot dead by Palestinian murderers while driving in his car, and another motorist was seriously wounded. No comment from the formerly outraged international community.
Today, 4 Israeli motorists were shot dead by Palestinian murderers, including one child. In addition to the dead, another 12 year-old child and a 2 year-old infant were injured by the Arab terrorist attack. Again, no comment from the formerly outraged international community.
The hypocrisy of the critics of Israel's self-defense counter-attack against the Palestinian terrorist war, is once again shown by the silence that follows the mass murder of Jews.
So where are all those who crawled out of the woodworks recently to proclaim that when Palestinians are inadvertently killed, "it is the worst... most inhuman act EVER seen..." But today, when it's back to terrorism as usual, there is only an awkward silence. The shameless holier-than-thou crew of terrorism supporters is again MIA (missing in action).
This leads to only one conclusion, i.e., that for the international community, the lives of Jewish victims are meaningless and do merit any outrage at their terrible loss. But on the other hand, for these people, Israel's attempts to prevent further massacres of Jews is "inhuman."
it cuts both ways.
the only place i heard about the "pogrom" in hebron was in ha'aretz.
arabs were attacked, a 14 yr old girl was shot in the head by a revengful mob.
the way the israeli (ret military) official described it, it sounded pretty frightening even for him ---& the military, whom the mob attacked also .
Originally posted by ruby
it cuts both ways.
the only place i heard about the "pogrom" in hebron was in ha'aretz...
.
Ironic, isn't it?
Originally posted by elke
Ironic, isn't it?
yes & it's to israel's honor :) .
i was making the point about the US media, tho.
shiva
07-30-2002, 07:45 PM
there are some people on this site, actually quite a few, and you, and the next one are some of the few, who see what the reality is, and understand what is going on, has gone on, and will always go on, as long as people like, oh, the same 3 or 4 anti-semetic pitbulls on this site, believe what they want to believe. I don't think anyone could have said what you said better. What I don't understand is how these ppl's can think they are justifying their sad and ignorant point of view. Maybe they feel left out. ;)
shiva,
[personal attack removed by moderator]
Jaian
08-02-2002, 07:04 AM
Well, there is a reason why it's much more difficult to condemn these cases...the PA is not taking responsibility for these acts of terror. The Israeli government, on the other hand, affords a target for criticism in the way all governments do.
Until the PA openly adopts Hamas tactics, you will not see anywhere near as much condemnation against attacks on Israelis as opposed to attacks on Palestinians.
Simon
08-02-2002, 08:47 AM
Is it only me that sees the hypocricy here?
Shiva, who to my knowledge has not killed/maimed/bombed a soul in his life and who vents his feelings using mere (sometimes strong) language is called by at least a few on this forum as "disgusting" rascist" "despicable."
But muslims, who murder, maim. bomb, rape are "misguided muslims" " freedom fighters" "fighting injustice" "have no choice" etc.
pardon me if I barf! :mad:
L@mplighterM
08-02-2002, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by Simon
Is it only me that sees the hypocricy here?
Shiva, who to my knowledge has not killed/maimed/bombed a soul in his life and who vents his feelings using mere (sometimes strong) language is called by at least a few on this forum as "disgusting" rascist" "despicable."
But muslims, who murder, maim. bomb, rape are "misguided muslims" " freedom fighters" "fighting injustice" "have no choice" etc.
pardon me if I barf! :mad:
He isn't the only one that has been called a racist. :D
Mediocrates
08-02-2002, 09:52 AM
She, I think.
peacelover
08-04-2002, 03:59 PM
minus:
how thoroughly unintelligent you are if you cannot apreciate the difference between disagreeing with Israel's manner of fighting terrorism, and being a 'terror-supporter'. You must be intrinsically ignorant if you think I support terror just because I don't think military responses will bring peace.
But I don't think you are stupid - I just think you don't like people who disagree with you, so you give them labels. You think anyone who doesn't do it your way is a terror-supporter... well that says more about you than me.
If you can find anywhere where I have supported suicide bombings, post it. If not, keep your hysterical mouth shut. It's not on to accuse somebody of something so awful without evidence to back up your claim.
Newsguy - I have never opened a thread on this forum, and I wasn't aware that just anybody could start threads. But then, I never started a thread about the Gaza strike either, and I certainly didn't call it 'the most inhuman act ever'. I do think today's suicide attack (and the other incidences) was unjustified and sick and send my condolences to the families of those involved. I'm very very angry about it - just days before talks were scheduled as well. I know the fact I don't accept everything Israel does makes you people think I am devoid of sympathy for these victims, but I am honestly not. I get upset when this happens as well - it is possible to have sympathy for people as human beings collectively. You don't have to choose whether to sympathise with Israelis OR with Palestinians, you can sympathise with both - so I hope you'll believe me when I say that I am disgusted by this murder.
I believe you, Peacelover. I also believe Northlander when he insists on the same thing, as well as Ayesha. I think large majority of people feel this way, because it's the logical way to feel, given our humanity - as it is logical to mourn the Palestinian noncombatant dead, like those children killed in the Shehada raid.
Here's the rub: negotiations, although a far preferable method to any military solution, have a caveat. They must be held between at least two parties, who are in adequate control of the situation as to be able to make promises they can actually keep . That's where we disagree. As best I can tell, there is no party to negotiate with on the Palestinian side. Therefore, that route cannot be used, by definition.
peacelover
08-05-2002, 06:57 AM
elke - maybe you're right. I am so sick of defending the Palestinian people when they just don't know how to help themselves, what with this violent culture, and celebrations at murders... I just don't know anymore. I don't even really know my political views anymore - my head's a mess when I think of the ME right now, and what is best for the future. I'm not sure there's even a solution.
I'm sick of all the political pettiness - I just want this senseless death to stop
minusthejihad
08-05-2002, 10:53 AM
Peacelover,
elke - maybe you're right. I am so sick of defending the Palestinian people when they just don't know how to help themselves, what with this violent culture, and celebrations at murders... I just don't know anymore. I don't even really know my political views anymore - my head's a mess when I think of the ME right now, and what is best for the future. I'm not sure there's even a solution.
I'm sick of all the political pettiness - I just want this senseless death to stop
That's the most balanced statement I've ever seen you post. Let's say I agree with you completely. My good friend Raed (Palestinian) and I try to figure this stuff out everytime we talk and it gets us exactly where we are today, nowhere. So instead, we keep supporting our peeps as much as possible and avoid watching the news together. Then we get to enjoy each other's company. It's kind of like you and me: How's the weather over there?
Ah, but your friendship and others are exactly the little-by-little progress that's going to do the trick someday. Humans never really outgrow their childhood. Just like small kids, we always want everything NOW!
But the world doesn't work that way. History doesn't work that way. If you really look at the situation, although it's nothing to brag about, it is a hell of a lot better than it was 50 years ago. I know, it sounds like a long time - but it really isn't: it's within our parents' lifetimes.
Watch and see: 50 years from now someone is going to say this very thing to someone else. :D And it will be true then too! And then, one day, the whole situation will resolve: but it won't be a sudden resolution, again, that's not how things work in reality.
Peacelover, don't lose hope! Never lose hope! My favorite adage is something my wise sister-in-law always says: "All is cometh to the one who waiteth, if he worketh like hell while he waiteth" ;)
...and you have to have hope to "worketh like hell"! :)
peacelover
08-06-2002, 03:30 AM
Minus: weather's really bad funnily enough We in England are not used to this cold weather!) So, how's the family?
elke - you are right about not losing hope. I haven't lost hope. I hope you're right about the situation getting gradually better, though like I have said in the past great changes in Palestinian culture are needed to get them into the right mindset.
What I meant before is that I don't have all the answers, and nor does anyone else. The lines of right and wrong have become very blurred, and it seems people are more interested in their side being right than they are about peace. I think both sides need to take a very long hard look at themselves, because they are both responsible for the bloodshed and suffering that engulfs both their people. But this won't happen, because people are too proud, too stubborn.
I don't know how it will happen, but I just want this to end - I hate the death, and I just want peace. So while what I write might be wrong, I say it with good intentions. The mistakes I will no doubt make will be honest mistakes, not borne out of malice. So I don't mind people disagreeing with me...
All I ask is that people realise I say what I say because I genuinely believe it to be right, and not because I am a 'terror-supporter' or an 'anti-semite', and other terms that people use to describe people like Northlander, trainspotter and I
Teacake
08-06-2002, 03:43 AM
Actually Ruby, what you accuse shiva of is exactly what I see in you. Carl Jung calls this "projection." You might want to do some research on that.
Anyhow, what I am noticing about the anti-Jewish, anti-Israel crowd is the constant barage of personal attacks rather than debating issues.
Since you appear to be an advocate for palestinians, would you please tell me about their history and why no one had ever heard of these distingished people until the 1960s.
shiva
08-07-2002, 11:31 PM
Ruby, it's heartening to see that you have never been narrowminded, belligerent or abusive. :rolleyes: thou does protest a little too much. Thanks, Teacake.
Originally posted by Teacake
Actually Ruby, what you accuse shiva of is exactly what I see in you. Carl Jung calls this "projection." You might want to do some research on that.
Anyhow, what I am noticing about the anti-Jewish, anti-Israel crowd is the constant barage of personal attacks rather than debating issues.
Since you appear to be an advocate for palestinians, would you please tell me about their history and why no one had ever heard of these distingished people until the 1960s.
i thought freud called it projection, but what do i know about psychology? you seem to have more knowledge of it.
[improper language removed by moderator] , teacake :) . you haven't read many of my posts, i gather, because although peacelover up there is a defender of palestinians, i don't recall ever being that moved & while i agree with her humanistic sentiments totally i have been much more pro-israel, fyi. i have been critical, yes, & sometimes flip, ok--but i have never been anti-jewish or anti-israel. & you must not've read shiva's stuff regarding me either b/c she has been the one slandering & calling me names without provocation or reasoning; i only responded to her when i was fed up w/ it.
just because someone is critical of israel doesn't mean that they are anti-israel or anti-jewish, please. where do you draw the logcial line from one to the other?
Mediocrates
08-19-2002, 08:17 AM
Thank god Sunday's over :p
Originally posted by ruby
[improper language removed by moderator] , teacake :) .
i said "kiss me" ! i meant it as 'let's kiss & make up', not whatever you thought ...
i think it's great that peacelover & minus up above can finally look past the rhetoric & accusations & make up & find some bit of shared humanity. kudos!
Originally posted by ruby
i said "kiss me" ! i meant it as 'let's kiss & make up', not whatever you thought ...
i think it's great that peacelover & minus up above can finally look past the rhetoric & accusations & make up & find some bit of shared humanity. kudos!
Not for long, unfortunately! :( Have you seen some of their later stuff? ;)
Adversary2Arabs
08-24-2002, 07:34 AM
I have to side with Minus. I have to side with the correct.
Originally posted by elke
Not for long, unfortunately! :( Have you seen some of their later stuff? ;)
no, that's too bad!
i don't know why, even if we can't respect each other's views, that we can't be respectful of each other.
:) elke, i want to publicly thank you for being as understanding & gracious as i have seen you to be on board here. you've been patient, respectful & thoughtful. i hope more on board here will learn something from you & make the board less hostile & more user friendly. i know we all lose our cool from time to time, but there's no reason for some of the viciousness that goes down around here sometimes.
so i am blowing you a kiss--you make this board a better place--thank you, elke & keep it up!.
is that ok w/ you, sharonbn?
me blowing a kiss?
or is that still improper?
maybe you willl edit the 'blowing" part, i dunno....
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