Intellectualme
07-26-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by mizpah
One is recorded in the Gospel of Luke 21 v's 20 - 27. Jerusalem would be encompased about by many armies and the Jews taken captive and dispersed among many nations. Subsequently, Jerusalem was ransacked, the temple destroyed and the city trodden down by the Gentiles ---------- until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This last statement is important as it suggests a time of revival for the Children of Israel. Gentile rule will cease and the land of Israel restored to its ancient people. I realise that this is contentious material and would cost me my life if said in the wrong place but prophecies of scripture have been accurate. Sceptical or not, it must be admitted that the accuracy of the prophets has been astounding.
In saying that, God promised Ismael (Father of the Arab peoples) that he would be a great nation of 12 princes Genesis 17 v 20. even though Issac was the child of promise Genesis 17 v 16. who was being used to bring forth the royal line of David. God heard the cry of Ismael and blessed him even though Abraham his Father had driven him and his mother the servant girl out because of the jealously of Sarah his wife. It did not work to have two mothers and two sons in the same household.
The main debate was over inheritance and still is like many other counteries. Because Ishmael was born first as an arranged pregnancy using a servant girl at the suggestions of Sarah, Abraham's wife and Issac was born later of Sarah who was past normal child bearing age Ishmael's mother Hagar thought that her son was entitled to Abraham's land and wealth.
A common Father but a serious problem of identity and position within the family. The passage gives the impression that Abraham felt sympathy for the position of Ishmael and this was supported by the promise from God regarding his future greatness. Nevertheless, it was not possible to divert from God's instruction that the son of promise, Issac, was to be used in God's divine plan.
Both have claim to greatness from Jehovah and the loins of Abraham. Irrespective of the different historical tracts and divine uses it must be said that in Abraham's household there was only one religion and relationship with God. Both Ishmael and Issac would have had the same influences and worshipped at the same alter. There was no such a thing as one following Islam and the other following Jehovah. These half brothers had to be separated not just because of female spite but also to ensure the fulfillment of Gods plan spoken to Abraham.
The Arab peoples have a lot in common with their half brothers the Jews but they have been separated by adopting a different religion called Islam which is intolerant and militant toward Jews and Christians. Personally, I think that the promoters of fundalmental Islam has a large part to play in addition to historical enemity.
You are right in quoting the Scriptures. According to the Scriptures, the Holy Land was God's promise to Issac. And you are also right in that Scriptures have been accurate.
However, when we talk about religion.. it is important for us to first understand what GOD wanted from mankind that HE sent Prophets and Messnegers to guide the peoples.
As you know.. ALL the Prophets of God had one Messege for the people: To Know that there is ONE GOD, and to do good and forbid the evil as is prescribed by the Holy Books sent on to man. This message is repeated by ALL monotheistic religions, and If we are to understand the message of GOD.. it is important that we look at all three religions to see what they believe. Now you have done that very well with Christianity and Judaism so I dont think I will repeat that. However... it is also important that you understand what GOD says about Islam and the message HE sent to the followers.
What is you definition of Jehovah? You are talking about the ONE GOD , correct? In you post .. you say Islam and Jehovah. Islam is the belief in ONE GOD. Let me tell you what is in the Islamic Scriptures. The term "Muslim" means "one who submits" or surrenders to GOD; it includes everyone who follows HIS guidance and performs HIS will. In Islam.. all the great monotheistic prophets are regarded as Muslims
Here, according to the Islamic Scriptures, Ismail was the one that GOD asked Abraham to sacrifice, so that GOD may test Abraham. Abraham, of course, passed that test.
So if Issac were told to follow GOD divine plan, he would be "one who submits". Ismail did the same thing. So as think that they are following two different ideals and faiths, in reality.. they are both submitting to ONE GOD, and both brothers were told to spread the message of GOD throughout. In this way, GOD is not being contradictory.
If you also read the Islamic Scriptures with the Judaic Scriptures.. you will see that they follow the same GOD... However, today we see two nations becuase the differences of the spread of the message and pratices of the people. Differences also arose from the interpretion of the message by later generation.
If your read about Islam.. it is not intolerant, or militant. It is clearly said that its every man for himself (i am not quoting). The actions of the people that we see now is not because Ismail relayed the message of GOD wrong or they beileve in another GOD, but because there is wrong doing everywhere in the world, and people who are not strong in there faith in GOD fall to satan. That goes for ALL people. One must not think that GOD sent the wrong message or that Islam is a bad religion. NO. All three monotheistic religions were sent by GOD. All at different times, and with different Prophets.
When I read the Hebrew and Latin scriptures, if I am correct, GOD sent the religion for a tribe or a people. When I read the Islamic Scriptures.. Islam is for ALL times and for ALL peoples.. it is not different from the messege of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.. However, it says it is the last message (biblical scriptres say otherwise) for mankind.
Howver.. I am not sure .. In the biblical scriptures.. does it not say that the next messiah will be called Ahmed?? Didn't Jesus say that Ahmed will be the last messiah??
Now.. in our days.. we have both people claiming the land.It is difficult both to try and convince the other party. Now I think the only way is to share the land.. knowing that it is for GOD's love that we are all striving for.
One is recorded in the Gospel of Luke 21 v's 20 - 27. Jerusalem would be encompased about by many armies and the Jews taken captive and dispersed among many nations. Subsequently, Jerusalem was ransacked, the temple destroyed and the city trodden down by the Gentiles ---------- until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
This last statement is important as it suggests a time of revival for the Children of Israel. Gentile rule will cease and the land of Israel restored to its ancient people. I realise that this is contentious material and would cost me my life if said in the wrong place but prophecies of scripture have been accurate. Sceptical or not, it must be admitted that the accuracy of the prophets has been astounding.
In saying that, God promised Ismael (Father of the Arab peoples) that he would be a great nation of 12 princes Genesis 17 v 20. even though Issac was the child of promise Genesis 17 v 16. who was being used to bring forth the royal line of David. God heard the cry of Ismael and blessed him even though Abraham his Father had driven him and his mother the servant girl out because of the jealously of Sarah his wife. It did not work to have two mothers and two sons in the same household.
The main debate was over inheritance and still is like many other counteries. Because Ishmael was born first as an arranged pregnancy using a servant girl at the suggestions of Sarah, Abraham's wife and Issac was born later of Sarah who was past normal child bearing age Ishmael's mother Hagar thought that her son was entitled to Abraham's land and wealth.
A common Father but a serious problem of identity and position within the family. The passage gives the impression that Abraham felt sympathy for the position of Ishmael and this was supported by the promise from God regarding his future greatness. Nevertheless, it was not possible to divert from God's instruction that the son of promise, Issac, was to be used in God's divine plan.
Both have claim to greatness from Jehovah and the loins of Abraham. Irrespective of the different historical tracts and divine uses it must be said that in Abraham's household there was only one religion and relationship with God. Both Ishmael and Issac would have had the same influences and worshipped at the same alter. There was no such a thing as one following Islam and the other following Jehovah. These half brothers had to be separated not just because of female spite but also to ensure the fulfillment of Gods plan spoken to Abraham.
The Arab peoples have a lot in common with their half brothers the Jews but they have been separated by adopting a different religion called Islam which is intolerant and militant toward Jews and Christians. Personally, I think that the promoters of fundalmental Islam has a large part to play in addition to historical enemity.
You are right in quoting the Scriptures. According to the Scriptures, the Holy Land was God's promise to Issac. And you are also right in that Scriptures have been accurate.
However, when we talk about religion.. it is important for us to first understand what GOD wanted from mankind that HE sent Prophets and Messnegers to guide the peoples.
As you know.. ALL the Prophets of God had one Messege for the people: To Know that there is ONE GOD, and to do good and forbid the evil as is prescribed by the Holy Books sent on to man. This message is repeated by ALL monotheistic religions, and If we are to understand the message of GOD.. it is important that we look at all three religions to see what they believe. Now you have done that very well with Christianity and Judaism so I dont think I will repeat that. However... it is also important that you understand what GOD says about Islam and the message HE sent to the followers.
What is you definition of Jehovah? You are talking about the ONE GOD , correct? In you post .. you say Islam and Jehovah. Islam is the belief in ONE GOD. Let me tell you what is in the Islamic Scriptures. The term "Muslim" means "one who submits" or surrenders to GOD; it includes everyone who follows HIS guidance and performs HIS will. In Islam.. all the great monotheistic prophets are regarded as Muslims
Here, according to the Islamic Scriptures, Ismail was the one that GOD asked Abraham to sacrifice, so that GOD may test Abraham. Abraham, of course, passed that test.
So if Issac were told to follow GOD divine plan, he would be "one who submits". Ismail did the same thing. So as think that they are following two different ideals and faiths, in reality.. they are both submitting to ONE GOD, and both brothers were told to spread the message of GOD throughout. In this way, GOD is not being contradictory.
If you also read the Islamic Scriptures with the Judaic Scriptures.. you will see that they follow the same GOD... However, today we see two nations becuase the differences of the spread of the message and pratices of the people. Differences also arose from the interpretion of the message by later generation.
If your read about Islam.. it is not intolerant, or militant. It is clearly said that its every man for himself (i am not quoting). The actions of the people that we see now is not because Ismail relayed the message of GOD wrong or they beileve in another GOD, but because there is wrong doing everywhere in the world, and people who are not strong in there faith in GOD fall to satan. That goes for ALL people. One must not think that GOD sent the wrong message or that Islam is a bad religion. NO. All three monotheistic religions were sent by GOD. All at different times, and with different Prophets.
When I read the Hebrew and Latin scriptures, if I am correct, GOD sent the religion for a tribe or a people. When I read the Islamic Scriptures.. Islam is for ALL times and for ALL peoples.. it is not different from the messege of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus.. However, it says it is the last message (biblical scriptres say otherwise) for mankind.
Howver.. I am not sure .. In the biblical scriptures.. does it not say that the next messiah will be called Ahmed?? Didn't Jesus say that Ahmed will be the last messiah??
Now.. in our days.. we have both people claiming the land.It is difficult both to try and convince the other party. Now I think the only way is to share the land.. knowing that it is for GOD's love that we are all striving for.