More Jew Hate in Eurabia

[Yala]

Police are investigating brutal anti-Semitic attack in London
By David Byers Updated: 18/Feb/2007 14:23

Golders Green, a suburb of north west London, is known for its large Jewish population as well as its significant number of kosher restaurants, delicatessens and bakeries.

LONDON (EJP)--- Police in London are appealing for information about a brutal anti-Semitic attack committed by three teenage thugs armed with baseball bats and rocks in one of the city’s most vibrant Jewish neighbourhoods.

The attackers - one of whom was described as white, one Asian and one of Mediterranean complexion - launched their assault in Golders Green Road last Tuesday shortly after their two Jewish victims, one of whom was a tourist, left a restaurant at 9.30pm.

Police say the men were given a torrent of anti-Semitic verbal abuse as they left the restaurant, and they were followed and physically attacked minutes later.

The trio of thugs hit their victims with baseball bats, wooden sticks and rocks and left the men with bruises, cuts to their faces and arms as they tried to defend themselves, officers say.

The London Jewish News reported that the victims were brothers.

One of the victims was a 25-year-old on holiday from France, who was left with cuts to the face and arms, a swollen lip and severe bruising.

His brother, 35, suffered a slashed arm in the attack, the newspaper reported.

Confirming the attack was anti-Semitic, Detective Superintendent Richard Walton, Barnet’s deputy borough commander, said: "This unprovoked attack was committed by three young men who targeted the victims purely based on their religion."

The suspects were described as being around 17 years old. One was white, about five feet and seven inches tall, and wearing a black, beanie-style hat, jeans and a red sweater, one was of Mediterranean skin colour, five feet and ten inches tall, wearing a black jacket, a white t-shirt and jeans, and the other was Asian, around five feet nine inches, in a grey hoodie top with white stripes on the arms and black tracksuit bottoms.
...

http://ejpress.org/article/14263

[Robin Hood]

It is sad news, however I think many Americans fail to realise that Britain is one of the most open and tolerant places in the world. Admittedly I don't live in Golders Green and I don't patronise specifically Jewish restaurants - ever..I think. Still I have never had my being Jewish held against me.

I am English, maybe British, and don't really like the way the people of Britain are represented as intolerant or bigoted in the media. Whether RW US outlets decrying the very few anti-semitic attacks of LW British media tarring the entire 'native' population as prejudiced against anyone with skin darker than a Spaniard. Amongst the Muslim population of Britain there is some hatred, however, it is totally superficial and dissipates immediately on them meeting one in a friendly setting i.e me.

[KettleWhistle]

I am English, maybe British, and don't really like the way the people of Britain are represented as intolerant or bigoted in the media. Whether RW US outlets decrying the very few anti-semitic attacks of LW British media tarring the entire 'native' population as prejudiced against anyone with skin darker than a Spaniard. Amongst the Muslim population of Britain there is some hatred, however, it is totally superficial and dissipates immediately on them meeting one in a friendly setting i.e me.

Rrrrright... and Ken Livingston's pandering to anti-Semites, and academic boycotts that failed on technicalities, and terrorists who came to Israel a few years back and killed a few people, and constant libel in media have got nothing to with it then.

[Robin Hood]

Rrrrright... and Ken Livingston's pandering to anti-Semites, and academic boycotts that failed on technicalities, and terrorists who came to Israel a few years back and killed a few people, and constant libel in media have got nothing to with it then.

Ken Livingstone, Acadaemia and a couple of terrorists......that's like representative of the whole UK population! 'Red' Ken will pander to anyone who hates America, he is a socialist...that is what the large majority do nowadays. So are most acadaemics. It is not Jew-hatred but an infantile reaction to having all one's political dreams end in massive self-massacre again and again and again. These are the type of people who - in public - will actually try and argue that North Korea is better off than the South. Livingstone wants to spend London tax money on street parties to celebrate 50 years of 'freedom' under Castro...why?...because Castro hates America. The Palestinians hate America and Israel is her ally. Both the shadow prime-minister and chancellor of the exchequer - at the last election - were Jewish...this is not a country in thrall to anti-semitism. No-one hates Sacha Baron-Cohen 'cos he makes fun of supposedly all stupid Americans.

As for the terrorists, quite a few bombed England not too long ago. Is England infested with virulent xenophobia against England?

[nbarzelay]

There has been quite a few vocal posters here on a campaign to smear anything and everything European into a single category of anti-semites. This is comprised of a sort of coalition between Israel and the Americans here on the forum in their deeply-seeded and misguided hatred of anything European. I myself will always be Dutch and Jewish. Has been so for over 500 years now, can't separate the two.

These deluded and nagging Israelis and Americans don't quite see the blatant hypocrisy in their slanderous statements that can be put on par with the misguided statements seen in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, except not as sensational.

But then, of course, these twits comes back with statements like "I have some European friends....", "I have been on vacation to so and so in Europe", or "I've lived in so and so place for a portion of my life..." in order to justify their statements that Europe is chock full of only anti-semites and pathetic dhimmihs just waiting to have their throats cut by Islamists. Sure, Europe has a substancial number of these Islamists, but so is every other country in the world, including the US and Israel.

Enough with the Europe bashing, the pure hypocrisy, and libel.

[Mil]

Simple statistics..... 60 years ago most Jews lived in Europe. Now most Jews don't live in Europe. I am sorry - I have nothing good to say about Europe.

[nbarzelay]

Simple statistics..... 60 years ago most Jews lived in Europe. Now most Jews don't live in Europe. I am sorry - I have nothing good to say about Europe.

Then you don't know anything about Europe. This is a simpleton's view of Europe.

Jewish communities are still thriving in Europe.

According to your 'simple statistics' you can apply this concept to every continent, even to countries like the good 'ol US of A.

http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishhumor/f/jewry_usa.htm

Try another theory that sticks better.

[Robin Hood]

Simple statistics..... 60 years ago most Jews lived in Europe. Now most Jews don't live in Europe. I am sorry - I have nothing good to say about Europe.

Wait, I get your logic. I'll try to utilise it. The Shoah happened in the world so you should have nothing good to say about the world. Of course the finesse required to differentiate say..Germany and the UK shouldn't be hard. Nevermind the problems of national collective responsibility, you're arguing for continental collective responsibility. Personally, I always liked the idea that the person who commits the crime is culpable not those who happen to be living in reasonable proximity.

[Mil]

Posted by Robin:

Wait, I get your logic. I'll try to utilise it. The Shoah happened in the world so you should have nothing good to say about the world.

Shoah happened on the continent Europe. In fact most of the crimes against the Jewish people were purpurtrated in Europe. From Inquisition to Hmelnitsky to Shoah.

Of course the finesse required to differentiate say..Germany and the UK shouldn't be hard.

Anti-semitism which lead to the Shoah was not a German invention....


Nevermind the problems of national collective responsibility, you're arguing for continental collective responsibility.

I am not arguing for anything. I am just telling you. For me entire Europe was responsible.


Personally, I always liked the idea that the person who commits the crime is culpable not those who happen to be living in reasonable proximity.

:) Ah, a humanitarian...... they did not feel sorry for you and why should you feel sorry for them?

[Mil]

Then you don't know anything about Europe. This is a simpleton's view of Europe.

You mean there are more Jews now in Europe then 60 years ago?


Jewish communities are still thriving in Europe.

I never said they don't.


According to your 'simple statistics' you can apply this concept to every continent, even to countries like the good 'ol US of A.

? More Jews live in the US then in Europe. A lot more.


http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishhumor/f/jewry_usa.htm

Try another theory that sticks better.

? What was my original theory?

[Robin Hood]

Posted by Robin:

Wait, I get your logic. I'll try to utilise it. The Shoah happened in the world so you should have nothing good to say about the world.

Shoah happened on the continent Europe. In fact most of the crimes against the Jewish people were purpurtrated in Europe. From Inquisition to Hmelnitsky to Shoah.

Of course the finesse required to differentiate say..Germany and the UK shouldn't be hard.

Anti-semitism which lead to the Shoah was not a German invention....


Nevermind the problems of national collective responsibility, you're arguing for continental collective responsibility.

I am not arguing for anything. I am just telling you. For me entire Europe was responsible.


Personally, I always liked the idea that the person who commits the crime is culpable not those who happen to be living in reasonable proximity.

:) Ah, a humanitarian...... they did not feel sorry for you and why should you feel sorry for them?


The Holocaust happened in the world, in fact more crimes against the Jews occured on Earth than anywhere else.

Anti-Semitism was not a German invention, no, but it is just one part of racial collectivism. You are pretty close to coming guilty to that irrationality.

If you hold everyone in Europe responsible for the Holocaust, not specifically the perpetrators then you are a total moron. Am I responsible..for example? You have admitted to the prejudicial nature of your belief, awesome that you can emulate the intellectual errors, if on a far smaller scale, committed by the Nazis. Nice. (Does sarcasm translate onto message boards).

Holding the person who commits the crime responsible and not random other people one happens to dumbly dislike is humanitarian. It is also common sense. In fact to hold anything different as a belief is to make a mockery of your, perhaps, God given powers of thought. You live in America so you are directly responsible for plantation slavery - or so goes your pitiful attempt at logic.

I understand the sentiment behind your words. This topic is profoundly emotive, however what you have written is quite atrocious. I suppose I was guilty of racialism when I thought no fellow Jew would fall so bloody low.

[KettleWhistle]

Then you don't know anything about Europe. This is a simpleton's view of Europe.

Jewish communities are still thriving in Europe.

According to your 'simple statistics' you can apply this concept to every continent, even to countries like the good 'ol US of A.

http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishhumor/f/jewry_usa.htm

Try another theory that sticks better.
Plenty of Jews are leaving Europe because of anti-Semitism. Hong Kong Jewish community expanded at the expense of European communities mostly for this very reason. So sure, Jewish communities exist and there are no official laws against Jews. Instead the anti-Semitism is supported by constant semi-official vilification of Israel, and it is on the rise.

Europeans are the engine of constant anti-Israel resolutions in the UNSC, with France being the worst. An Israeli general or colonel was almost arrested in the UK because of his IDF service not long ago. There are arms embargoes that go the point of Europeans refusing El-Al stopovers at their airports. BBC slanders Israel most every chance it gets, and when reporting on the Arab-Jewish conflicts often sounds worse than Al-Jazeera. And there are all kinds of other double-standards.

We have a problem with Europe, and there is no need to cover it up and try to make it into something politically correct. The truth needs to start being told. Perhaps the most important one is that being anti-Israel differs from being critical of Israel, and it is anti-Semitic, just like being anti-Italy is anti-Italian.

[nbarzelay]

Plenty of Jews are leaving Europe because of anti-Semitism. Hong Kong Jewish community expanded at the expense of European communities mostly for this very reason. So sure, Jewish communities exist and there are no official laws against Jews. Instead the anti-Semitism is supported by constant semi-official vilification of Israel, and it is on the rise.

Europeans are the engine of constant anti-Israel resolutions in the UNSC, with France being the worst. An Israeli general or colonel was almost arrested in the UK because of his IDF service not long ago. There are arms embargoes that go the point of Europeans refusing El-Al stopovers at their airports. BBC slanders Israel most every chance it gets, and when reporting on the Arab-Jewish conflicts often sounds worse than Al-Jazeera. And there are all kinds of other double-standards.

We have a problem with Europe, and there is no need to cover it up and try to make it into something politically correct. The truth needs to start being told. Perhaps the most important one is that being anti-Israel differs from being critical of Israel, and it is anti-Semitic, just like being anti-Italy is anti-Italian.

Look, make a distinction for once between those who have influence in the governments of Europe and those of the European populace. This is all that I'm asking. Your logic follows that since some Europeans vilify Israel, Israel will vilify all Europeans. Since when has this solved any problems? This has nothing to do with political correctness whatsoever.

There are many Europeans, including in government positions, who are hardcore supporters of Israel. I can speak with certainty of many fellow Dutchmen who do support Israel, just check out Urk for a large contingent of Christian supporters of Israel, and no, they are not evangelists.

I would have expected a bit more from you Kettlewhistle.

[Robin Hood]

Europeans are the engine of constant anti-Israel resolutions in the UNSC, with France being the worst.

France = the country where a man of partially Jewish descent will become president next election.


An Israeli general or colonel was almost arrested in the UK because of his IDF service not long ago.

Yes, 'almost'.


There are arms embargoes that go the point of Europeans refusing El-Al stopovers at their airports.

Never head of this.


BBC slanders Israel most every chance it gets, and when reporting on the Arab-Jewish conflicts often sounds worse than Al-Jazeera. And there are all kinds of other double-standards.

THe BBC represents no-one but a metropolitan, self-righteous clique of left-wing busybodies. They slander Israel, but they take British people's money on pain of imprisonment to do it. Who is worse treated?


We have a problem with Europe, and there is no need to cover it up and try to make it into something politically correct.

There is a need not to randomly treat continents and their wide diversity of inhabitants as perfectly homogenous. That needs derives from common sense.


Perhaps the most important one is that being anti-Israel differs from being critical of Israel, and it is anti-Semitic, just like being anti-Italy is anti-Italian.

Whilst anti-Semitism and being anti-Israel tend to go hand in hand, suggesting a strong link. This is not necessarily the case. Furthermore whilst I'm Jewish I am not Israeli. I hear the country is wonderful but I can't exactly be a citizen of a country I've never visited.

[KettleWhistle]

Look, make a distinction for once between those who have influence in the governments of Europe and those of the European populace. This is all that I'm asking. Your logic follows that since some Europeans vilify Israel, Israel will vilify all Europeans.
No, my logic is that when there is a problem, it shouldn't be swept under a rag. I'm not vilifying anyone. I'm just stating the fact that Europe is not a Jew-friendly place. Or is it not true that most places a person who's obviously a Jew, let's say he's wearing a kipa, wouldn't be treated like any other guy?



There is a need not to randomly treat continents and their wide diversity of inhabitants as perfectly homogenous. That needs derives from common sense.
I was talking about hostile attitudes and policies that we have to encounter every day, not continents of people.


Whilst anti-Semitism and being anti-Israel tend to go hand in hand, suggesting a strong link. This is not necessarily the case. Furthermore whilst I'm Jewish I am not Israeli. I hear the country is wonderful but I can't exactly be a citizen of a country I've never visited.

Anti-Israelism is anti-Semitism. I think my example demonstrates it quite well. There are Italians who live outside of Italy, that doesn't mean that somebody being anti-Italy is not anti-Italian.

[golani]

Then you don't know anything about Europe. This is a simpleton's view of Europe.

Jewish communities are still thriving in Europe.

According to your 'simple statistics' you can apply this concept to every continent, even to countries like the good 'ol US of A.

http://judaism.about.com/od/jewishhumor/f/jewry_usa.htm

Try another theory that sticks better.


Well,I live in eurabia and my opinion is straightforward
There is NO FUTURE for jews in Europe
I am not totally paranoid but each time I talk with friends,the topic will come to :alya to Israel ? when???
I am talking about people who feel jewish in their guts which means
-each time something happens there,our heart smiles or saddly more frequently burst in tears
-we have scores of friend,relatives there
Being jewish is definitely more than a religion
Our kids are safe only in jewish schools
Universities considered safe are in Israel or USA
Israel is -our people
-our country
-our army
There is definitely a foul smell in the air in Europe
All the biased medias are heavily contributing to that state of mind
Thanksfully,we have internet to receive and share some glimses of hope
Most young and middle aged jews know it and wonder :when is the big departure??
Getting his university degree recognized in Israel is a huge hurdle
Some leftists (jews?,are they really jews?) have still their illusions but only fool themselves barely

[Yala]

Why is it that the only European on this forum currently that's being honest about the widespread anti-Semitism in Europe is a Muslim living in Sweden?


*EDIT besides Golani

[bararallu]

Why is it that the only European on this forum currently that's being honest about the widespread anti-Semitism in Europe is a Muslim living in Sweden? *EDIT besides Golani

Yala,

It seems to me this thread is a disagreement mostly between European Jews, Eastern European and Western. This is also not unlike the usual political and psychological difference between typical Russian/Mizrachim and American Jews in NY, that I've noticed anyway.

Most Eastern European (= Soviet etc) have their hearts hardened regarding the continent, while most Western Europeans are on the fence. Both are right of course, in that Europe has been a catastrophy for the Jews (both Ashkenazi and Sephardi) but also that it in no way worse than any other place hypothetically. That emotionally, it's necessary to blame whole nations collectively. Yet reasonably (in the western sence of reason) it is hard to blame anyone beyond individuals.

And (to all) for what it's worth, Anti-Semitism came way before the idea of "Europe" was imagined, even in Roman times.

Further, I think that ostresizing (here on this board and generally) the few but vocal gentile supporters of Israel in Europe is a self defeating undertaking. There is a kulturkampf going on in Europe. I think it's important that we Jews, collectively, should be on the right side of it. No pun intended. I think most of us can agree on that.

[Yala]

Yala,

It seems to me this thread is a disagreement mostly between European Jews, Eastern European and Western. This is also not unlike the usual political and psychological difference between typical Russian/Mizrachim and American Jews in NY, that I've noticed anyway.

Most Eastern European (= Soviet etc) have their hearts hardened regarding the continent, while most Western Europeans are on the fence. Both are right of course, in that Europe has been a catastrophy for the Jews (both Ashkenazi and Sephardi) but also that it in no way worse than any other place hypothetically. That emotionally, it's necessary to blame whole nations collectively. Yet reasonably (in the western sence of reason) it is hard to blame anyone beyond individuals.

And (to all) for what it's worth, Anti-Semitism came way before the idea of "Europe" was imagined, even in Roman times.

Further, I think that ostresizing (here on this board and generally) the few but vocal gentile supporters of Israel in Europe is a self defeating undertaking. There is a kulturkampf going on in Europe. I think it's important that we Jews, collectively, should be on the right side of it. No pun intended. I think most of us can agree on that.

Well I am of Eastern European descent (non-Soviet) and even though the Europeans murdered 3/4 of my family I was still ready to forgive them and thought they had rid themselves of their anti-Jewish paranoia and hate. Well sorry to say since 2000 especially they have removed their masks and I have been proven wrong by numerous visits, the every day hate crimes against Jews, their siding with every enemy of the Jews, etc, etc, etc. I can go on all day. Do I hate all Europeans? Absolutely not. Do I think most have infected themselves to the bone with Jew-hate? Absolutely, yes. Will I pander to these losers? Absolutely not. I will never be on any European "side", let them deal by themselves with their upcoming intifadahs.

The Romans may have hated the Jews, but I wouldn't call them anti-Semites as much as I would chalk it up to fighting (and conquering) empires. It was the Church in Europe who took anti-Semitism to another level when they decided to say Jesus was the son of G-d and blame the Jews for killing him. Killing their G-d is something the Jews can never be forgiven for, you see. So as most of the Church has apologized and changed, most of Europe has not.

[KettleWhistle]

Most Eastern European (= Soviet etc) have their hearts hardened regarding the continent, while most Western Europeans are on the fence. Both are right of course, in that Europe has been a catastrophy for the Jews (both Ashkenazi and Sephardi) but also that it in no way worse than any other place hypothetically. That emotionally, it's necessary to blame whole nations collectively. Yet reasonably (in the western sence of reason) it is hard to blame anyone beyond individuals.
What many fail to understand about East European or "Russian" Jews is that it is not a matter of them being "hardened". It is a matter of identity. The so-called "Russian" Jews have a strong sense of Jewish identity. And not a religious Jewish identity, but the real, ethnic, Jewish identity. They are not "Russians" and they are not "European", as they Jews. First, second, and last. So there is certainly no particular love for countries or continents that are not ours. Sure, a "Russian" Jew may have been born in Russia. That doesn't make him Russian nor does it make Russia his country. He is a Jew, his people are Jews, not Russians, and his homeland is Israel, not Russia. It would behove other Jews to understand, respect, and adopt this attitude, and to stop this superficial pseudo-ethnic division based on where someone's parents happened to be born.

[bararallu]

Yala,

I agree with most of your sentiments. I was born in EE. I too have lost nearly all of my family, in the SU, in Romania, in France and so on. But it's too easy to get fixated, that is, do not cut off your nose to spite your face. I think that's the expression... Aside from the fact that a million Jews still live in Europe, however precariously, millions of Europeans (living in Europe & elsewhere) still support Israel. That is a statistical fact. They do so for different reasons, as you know. But whatever their reasons, realpolitik or religious, or moral, or a combination, they are righteous and we should not condemn them in our rage or outrage. Nominally speaking, Americans of European ancestry can be just as offended by an Israeli saying lets nuke Germany and Spain (I understand that sentiment, but it's still wrong). I haven't forgiven or forgotten anything, but I'm willing to show good will to people who show good will to me. Simple reciprocity. I'm a Zionist, neither victimology nor blind vengeance or hate has any part of Zionism in my humble opinion.

Thats all I'm saying. Blanket statements get blanket responses.

Aside, I firmly believe like KW and some of the others on this board (I'm a long time lurker btw), that most of our problems are (or originate) in our own house, so to speak.

[bararallu]

KW,

I understand the viewpoint completely. I agree with it (albeit in a modified fashion*) being born and raised in this milieu. You will not, however, convince many Western Jews that this is the correct or ultimate definition of what a "Jew" is, since it is an alien concept to many of them. The Soviet system reinforced a concept of nationality in Jews that borders on race, there is nothing comparable in the modern west, as you most certainly know. On the flip side, the idea of "light on to the nations" and/or "elected am me hagoim" which still hold true for many Western Jews has been thoroughly, how should I put it... purged, from the overwhelming majority of Soviet Jewry (and a slightly lesser extent EE Jewry generally). I'm not even going to mention what most exSoviets think of conversion.

* I understand you are mostly in Zhabotinsky's camp, I am somewhat as well. My point is that without a religious-cultural software, if you will, the Jewish hardware will eventually break. We will be Anglos, Russians, or Europeans, who just happen to live in a country with Judaic Arabs and Ethiopians and Indians. Ethnicity, while real to some, is theoretic construct to others. The biforcated Rabiniate and the Israeli hard Left has contributed a lot to this, but so has the secular right. Perhaps a little Ascher Ginzberg (Achad Ha'am) will get us some of whats fundamentally missing in Zhabotinsky, not to mention the lefts "New Jew" or canaanite attempts at identity.

[Robin Hood]

Anti-Israelism is anti-Semitism. I think my example demonstrates it quite well. There are Italians who live outside of Italy, that doesn't mean that somebody being anti-Italy is not anti-Italian.

Your example demonstrates nothing. I am Jewish but not Israeli. Furthermore you have made no argument as to why being anti-Italy (a phrase that can mean so much) must mean being anti-Italian.


I was talking about hostile attitudes and policies that we have to encounter every day, not continents of people.

You brought focus to a number of events then proceeded to hold an entire continent responsible. You did not address my points you ignored them, perhaps for lack of an answer. Will I be unable to coax anything more than an emotionally derived two-dimensional response from you? I have lived in England all my life and have never encountered any anti-semitism first-hand. I have direct experience proving my argument, you have one or two incidents occurring amongst hundreds of millions of people. Your accusations, thus unfounded, are harmful. Calling someone a racist is an insult and you insult a continent. Thankfully such vitriol is not widely distributed over here so we do not suffer from an almost understandable backlash. In Britain even the far-right nationalist party do not bother to attack the Jews since there is very little support for them doing so. Please stop using your understandable prejudices in lieu of facts and real knowledge.

[Mil]

I have my opinions about Euros and you have yours, in fact I have my mind set all 100%.

[Robin Hood]

I have my opinions about Euros and you have yours, in fact I have my mind set all 100%.

Great, you're a close-minded bigot. I'm European but your hatred of me due to my birthplace only reflects badly on you.

[KettleWhistle]

Your example demonstrates nothing. I am Jewish but not Israeli. Furthermore you have made no argument as to why being anti-Italy (a phrase that can mean so much) must mean being anti-Italian.
Are you confused by terminology? Ohhh, I'm soooo sorry! Would it be easier for you if we renamed Israel "Jewland"?


I'm European but your hatred of me due to my birthplace only reflects badly on you.I thought you said you were a Jew. Jews are a Middle Eastern people, not European.

[nbarzelay]

Well,I live in eurabia and my opinion is straightforward
There is NO FUTURE for jews in Europe
I am not totally paranoid but each time I talk with friends,the topic will come to :alya to Israel ? when???
I am talking about people who feel jewish in their guts which means
-each time something happens there,our heart smiles or saddly more frequently burst in tears
-we have scores of friend,relatives there
Being jewish is definitely more than a religion
Our kids are safe only in jewish schools
Universities considered safe are in Israel or USA
Israel is -our people
-our country
-our army
There is definitely a foul smell in the air in Europe
All the biased medias are heavily contributing to that state of mind
Thanksfully,we have internet to receive and share some glimses of hope
Most young and middle aged jews know it and wonder :when is the big departure??
Getting his university degree recognized in Israel is a huge hurdle
Some leftists (jews?,are they really jews?) have still their illusions but only fool themselves barely

Don't pull a 'Takeo'.

Doesn't help your argument....well, this isn't really an argument, this is just another diatribe.

You do realize that Israel will be overrun by Arabs before 'Eurabia' will. Do you?

I'm all for supporting Israel since I did make aliyah, but I don't support putting all one's eggs in one basket, Jews need to continue their presence in other countries besides Israel.

[nbarzelay]

Are you confused by terminology? Ohhh, I'm soooo sorry! Would it be easier for you if we renamed Israel "Jewland"?
I thought you said you were a Jew. Jews are a Middle Eastern people, not European.

You're going a bit overboard.

Jews are European, as Jews are African, S. American, etc.

You sound like a delusional bickering old man here.

[nbarzelay]

I have my opinions about Euros and you have yours, in fact I have my mind set all 100%.

Opinions based on nothing.

Guess your deep-seeded hatred towards French people is just applied to all Europeans in general to make it simpler. Can you, as an American, actually point out France on a map? I hear Americans have a tenacity for world geography.

[Yala]

Robin Hood-

Can you at least accept that maybe your experiences as a Jewish European are different from the experiences of other Jewish Europeans?

[KettleWhistle]

You're going a bit overboard.

Jews are European, as Jews are African, S. American, etc.

You sound like a delusional bickering old man here.
European in a sense of being citizens or former citizens of one of the European countries? Sure. But Jews are not a people native to Europe. I was born in Europe too. But it most certainly not my homeland. Even our lives and history and culture in Europe were always different that of the natives. That's a fact, not a delusion.

[nbarzelay]

European in a sense of being citizens or former citizens of one of the European countries? Sure. But Jews are not a people native to Europe. I was born in Europe too. But it most certainly not my homeland. Even our lives and history and culture in Europe were always different that of the natives. That's a fact, not a delusion.

So my over 500 years of history in the Netherlands doesn't make me Dutch? What exactly makes one 'native' to a land anyways? Christianity was born in the ME as well, so I guess all the Christian Europeans are not natives to Europe as well.

If you really want to be so anal about this 'native' subject, how about you apply Darwinian principles and say that ALL humans are 'native' to Africa since we evolved into homo-sapiens/erectus from that continent.

Sure, Judaism evolved into a religion and culture in ancient Israel, but my family line has not stepped foot into this region (as in settled, rather sporatic visits, temporary residents). Or are you implying that this Jewish culture is bound in the genes of Jews?

To tell you the truth, I have more similarities with Dutch Europeans that I do with Israelis, at least when taking into consideration the subject of mannerisms.

I wouldn't term what you said as 'fact' but rather far-fetched opinion.

[KettleWhistle]

I was talking ethnicity, not religion. I'm a Jew because I'm a descendant of ancient Hebrews, not because of my religion. That's my claim to Israel as my homeland and my birthright. Some 300 years ago my ancestry was spread from Germany to Tajikistan. So what? I'm a Jew, not a German, Pole, Ukranian, Romanian, Moldavian, Russian, Turkmen, Tajik, or Persian. What does Europe, or any of these countries, have to do with me? Jews just came to those countries as guests, and stayed there as guests or second-class citizens. So my ancestors lived and conducted business in those places, dreaming of returning home to Jerusalem one day.

[Robin Hood]

Are you confused by terminology? Ohhh, I'm soooo sorry! Would it be easier for you if we renamed Israel "Jewland"?
I thought you said you were a Jew. Jews are a Middle Eastern people, not European.

You may call it Jewland if you want; however I am Jewish and not Israeli. I have never even been there (perhaps I will take up my 'birthright' in the summer). I am English by nationality. I am English by culture, terribly English by mannerisms and fairer than most of my compatriots. I don't need someone hundreds of miles away telling me where I am from. I do have a very soft spot for Israel, which I believe to be a wonderful country. Yet it unnerves me when someone from there displays some weird sense of ownership over me.


Jews just came to those countries as guests, and stayed there as guests or second-class citizens.

It would be absurd to claim that I live as a second class citizen. Opportunities abound; what little prejudice exists is almost entirely irrelevant; and the sense of privilege and liberty is practically tangible. The trajectory of my life would have, in no way, arched had I been born into a Christian family. Contemporary Britiain is really very high in the list of societies one would best benefit from being born into.


Can you at least accept that maybe your experiences as a Jewish European are different from the experiences of other Jewish Europeans?

I'm sure they are different because everyone has different experiences regardless of creed/colour and all that. Which is precisely my point, demonstrating blanket hatred for an entire continent is ignorant and bigoted.

[nbarzelay]

I was talking ethnicity, not religion. I'm a Jew because I'm a descendant of ancient Hebrews, not because of my religion. That's my claim to Israel as my homeland and my birthright. Some 300 years ago my ancestry was spread from Germany to Tajikistan. So what? I'm a Jew, not a German, Pole, Ukranian, Romanian, Moldavian, Russian, Turkmen, Tajik, or Persian. What does Europe, or any of these countries, have to do with me? Jews just came to those countries as guests, and stayed there as guests or second-class citizens. So my ancestors lived and conducted business in those places, dreaming of returning home to Jerusalem one day.

Religion is part of ethnicity, as is culture.

I am also a descendent of the Hebrews, as far as I know (Don't exactly have a definitive family tree all the way back to that time, but somewhere into to 1500's). This, however, does not void my ties to the Netherlands as my home country. Your personal feelings towards Israel are different than mine since I feel myself as multi-national. If you and your family felt like a guest in a country for ~300 years, that's your prerogative, not mine, so don't try to impose your beliefs upon me.

It's absurd, as Robin Hood stated, to state that Jewish families in general lived as dhimmihs in Western Europe. My family enjoyed equal rights to that of any other citizen and didn't pay some form of 'zakat' or anything related to such a status.

Quite frankly, if you dreamed of returning to Israel sooner, why not during the late stages of the Ottoman empire when, as other posters here have mentioned, the empire was more tolerant towards Jews? Why so late?

If you have some repressed afflictions and/or some agenda to vilify all of Europe with these baseless assertions, do us all a favour, and buy a diary.

[KettleWhistle]

You may call it Jewland if you want; however I am Jewish and not Israeli.

So what? What was your point? Aside from the fact that you obviously don't know the history of your people. The likes of your Robin Hood were robbing Jewish moneylenders in England and expelling and letting them back in a few times over. Or do you believe you come from some Robin-Hoodian peasants that ran around the British Isles worshipping druids at the time that Jews lived in Judaea?


Which is precisely my point, demonstrating blanket hatred for an entire continent is ignorant and bigoted.
Who's hating the entire continent? Most of us just happened to have a disdain for the rampant anti-Semitism in Europe, something you're obviously OK with.

[danholo]

As we should all know the Netherlands is known as on of the rare countries where Jews have experienced little to know persecution. The Dutch have historically always been kind to Jews. That's because of their tolerant mentality. As far as I know, the Dutch don't like to mess with anyone but when they're messed with, they'll give you hell. Full respect for that.

I heard the my first live "anti-Semitic" conversation in a bar yesterday. I happened to find myself eavesdropping the moment I heard the word "juutalaiset" (that's Jews in Finnish). This guy was talking about the loyalty of the Jews. Despite that my experience here is that Finns don't have problems with Jews because Jews are largely assimilated and live the common lifestyle. I have some non-Jewish friends and they don't seem to have any problems with it. They actually respect it but still I can't say I always feel comfortable in a goyish atmosphere. That's probably because of my ever increasing interest in Judaism. It doesn't really fit the usual life here but I can manage.

Europe is historically antisemitic and I don't have any high hopes for Europe but they're OK with Jews as long as Jews remain loyal to their countries and don't act that Jewish. That's not cool and that is why we need Israel.

[Mil]

Posted nbalazey:

Guess your deep-seeded hatred towards French people is just applied to all Europeans in general to make it simpler.

Something like that.

Can you, as an American, actually point out France on a map? I hear Americans have a tenacity for world geography.

No passaran!!!!! The Reds are in Town!!!!!

[Mil]

Posted by Robin:

I am English by nationality.

I am Russian, by nationality.

I am English by culture,

I am Russian by culture.


terribly English by mannerisms and fairer than most of my compatriots.

Terribly Russian by mannerisms and fair than most of my compatriots.

I don't need someone hundreds of miles away telling me where I am from. I do have a very soft spot for Israel, which I believe to be a wonderful country. Yet it unnerves me when someone from there displays some weird sense of ownership over me.

I don't even look Jewish.


I'm sure they are different because everyone has different experiences regardless of creed/colour and all that. Which is precisely my point, demonstrating blanket hatred for an entire continent is ignorant and bigoted.

Bigotted for you. I don't consider myself a bigot especially being an American. I've seen and personally know a lot more people from a lot more ethnic and national groups and cultures than you have ever seen in your life. I just don't like the European contient, UK included. Sorry.

[Tigranes]

I believe that one of the larger problems that Jew hate has grown out of in Europe is the Xenophobia. There are countries in Europe where racism, anti-semetism and anti-islam resides

[mossad]

As we should all know the Netherlands is known as on of the rare countries where Jews have experienced little to know persecution. The Dutch have historically always been kind to Jews. That's because of their tolerant mentality. As far as I know, the Dutch don't like to mess with anyone but when they're messed with, they'll give you hell. Full respect for that.

I heard the my first live "anti-Semitic" conversation in a bar yesterday. I happened to find myself eavesdropping the moment I heard the word "juutalaiset" (that's Jews in Finnish). This guy was talking about the loyalty of the Jews. Despite that my experience here is that Finns don't have problems with Jews because Jews are largely assimilated and live the common lifestyle. I have some non-Jewish friends and they don't seem to have any problems with it. They actually respect it but still I can't say I always feel comfortable in a goyish atmosphere. That's probably because of my ever increasing interest in Judaism. It doesn't really fit the usual life here but I can manage.

Europe is historically antisemitic and I don't have any high hopes for Europe but they're OK with Jews as long as Jews remain loyal to their countries and don't act that Jewish. That's not cool and that is why we need Israel.

Very true.

[KettleWhistle]

I am Russian, by nationality.

I am Russian by culture.

Hey, Mil, is this you?

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5057/fc02ju1.jpg

[nbarzelay]

Posted by Robin:

I am English by nationality.

I am Russian, by nationality.

I am English by culture,

I am Russian by culture.


terribly English by mannerisms and fairer than most of my compatriots.

Terribly Russian by mannerisms and fair than most of my compatriots.

I don't need someone hundreds of miles away telling me where I am from. I do have a very soft spot for Israel, which I believe to be a wonderful country. Yet it unnerves me when someone from there displays some weird sense of ownership over me.

I don't even look Jewish.


I'm sure they are different because everyone has different experiences regardless of creed/colour and all that. Which is precisely my point, demonstrating blanket hatred for an entire continent is ignorant and bigoted.

Bigotted for you. I don't consider myself a bigot especially being an American. I've seen and personally know a lot more people from a lot more ethnic and national groups and cultures than you have ever seen in your life. I just don't like the European contient, UK included. Sorry.

What the hell are you smokin'?

[Robin Hood]

Bigotted for you. I don't consider myself a bigot especially being an American. I've seen and personally know a lot more people from a lot more ethnic and national groups and cultures than you have ever seen in your life. I just don't like the European contient, UK included. Sorry.

Yes, you're a self-admitted bigot. Furthermore considering where around the world I have been I deeply doubt the truth of your statement.


So what? What was your point? Aside from the fact that you obviously don't know the history of your people. The likes of your Robin Hood were robbing Jewish moneylenders in England and expelling and letting them back in a few times over. Or do you believe you come from some Robin-Hoodian peasants that ran around the British Isles worshipping druids at the time that Jews lived in Judaea?

Crimes hundreds of years ago, let's dredge those up! Certainly people alive today and related to them are responsible, which by consensus amongst geneticists would include probably everyone in the world - even you.


Who's hating the entire continent? Most of us just happened to have a disdain for the rampant anti-Semitism in Europe, something you're obviously OK with.

Nowhere in this thread have I even suggested being 'ok with anti-semitism'; however it is riddled with statements of irrational and uniformed hatred from other people. Perhaps you might like to check what has been written before you make comments that are so easily disproven.

[KettleWhistle]

Crimes hundreds of years ago, let's dredge those up! Certainly people alive today and related to them are responsible, which by consensus amongst geneticists would include probably everyone in the world - even you.
No, no, no, you see, this is not about their crimes. It's about their history that's different from ours. Your ancestors, at least most of them (given that there is a fair possibility that one of the locals (e.g. Englishmen) might have raped one of your female ancestors and hense contributed to the bloodline), don't share their history and were no part to either Robin Hood, Richard the Lionheart, Sheakespear, or any other historical English icon.

Quite frankly, you are little different from Mil--a Jew who thinks he is a hoizer (that's an Yiddish term for a Russian, lit. pig) and admittedly acts like one.

[Mediocrates]

I'm not terribly interested in teasing the dross from the gold. Most of my ancestors saw fit to pack up and run halfway around the world not speaking the language not having jobs and hoping that it couldn't possibly be any worse than where they were. They were not from the shetl they were urban, as educated as anyone else, some were politically active already. They came 1900-1914. They may not have even viewed themselves as particularly Jewish or observant. They knew that they were oppressed and poor living in countries that didn't want them. You know, pretty much the same reason everyone everywhere emigrates. Was everything in Europe 'evil'? Don't know don't care. I'm just happy they made those decisions otherwise there's an 80-90% probably I wouldn't be alive.

[Robin Hood]

No, no, no, you see, this is not about their crimes. It's about their history that's different from ours. Your ancestors, at least most of them (given that there is a fair possibility that one of the locals (e.g. Englishmen) might have raped one of your female ancestors and hense contributed to the bloodline), don't share their history and were no part to either Robin Hood, Richard the Lionheart, Sheakespear, or any other historical English icon.

Quite frankly, you are little different from Mil--a Jew who thinks he is a hoizer (that's an Yiddish term for a Russian, lit. pig) and admittedly acts like one.

Or perhaps like Ruth one or even many of my ancestors may have converted to Judaism, I could for all you know have a convert mother. Nonetheless that is irrelevant, your 'point' doesn't diminish the strength of the consensus amongst genetic scientists that we are all probably related in some small way since perhaps only a thousand years ago. Imagine a family tree stretching back and imagine just how far it would branch out. Statistically it should cover the entire global population - many times over.

Of course I might also point out that I find it irrational to judge oneself by one's genetic forbearers, or even point out that what makes you 'you' is not solely contained in your genetics. Cultural inheritance also plays a very large part as does individual affirmation.

The outright racism displayed in your last comment disturbs me, even ashames me. Why don't you just call Russians 'untermensch' and reveal the true nature of your beliefs?

[Yala]

Anti-Semitic attacks jump in France, Jewish group says
CRIF says physical attacks on Jews rose by 46 percent in 2006, apparently fueled by brutal murder of young Jew, war in Lebanon
Reuters
Published: 02.26.07, 22:20 / Israel News

The number of anti-Semitic incidents in France jumped sharply in 2006, lifted by attacks following the brutal murder of a young Jew at the start of the year and by the war in Lebanon , a Jewish group said on Monday.

CRIF, the representative council of Jewish institutions in France, said physical attacks on Jews rose 46 percent to 112 last year from 77 in 2005.

Anti-Semitic "actions", including both assaults and lesser attacks such as throwing objects or causing material damage, rose 40 percent to 213 from 152, while the number of threats rose by 7 percent to 158.

CRIF said the rise in attacks appeared to have been fuelled by the murder of Ilan Halimi , a 23-year-old Jewish man whose death at the hands of a group of kidnappers in February last year shocked France.

Halimi was found naked and tortured after three weeks in captivity and died shortly afterwards.

The leader of the kidnappers said they had wanted to extort a ransom and denied acting out of anti-Semitic motives, but the Interior Ministry branded it an anti-Semitic act and it was followed by a spate of attacks on Jews in Paris.

CRIF also said the war in Lebanon between Israeli forces and Hizbullah guerrillas during July and August of 2006 sparked a rise in attacks in France which continued into September and October.

"Anti-Semitic actions are carried out sometimes with real determination, sometimes simply because an opportunity presents itself," it said in a statement.

The statistics were collected from reports by the service for the protection of the Jewish community (SPCJ), which counts both attacks reported on a hotline and information supplied by the Interior Ministry.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3370132,00.html

[Robin Hood]

In Greater Manchester, just one small area of Britain, police figures show a record number of racist attacks in the area - out of 572 reported cases last year, 60% of the victims were white - and detectives are investigating a total of three racially-motivated incidents during last weekend.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/1294021.stm

Yes anti-semitism is a problem, yes it is disgusting but to lose a sense of perspective is to alienate the vast majority of the people of Europe. In reality the problem is that of racial collectivism, as with all forms of collectivism, all it succeeds in doing is formenting a mob mentality, violence and represents the outlook little above that of a chimpanzee. Not that one should conclude that racially motivated crime is spiralling out of control, rather it indicates the willingness even desire of the authorities to bring colour into everything. This, the racism of post-modernity, will lead us straight back to racism of the old school.

[Yala]

In Greater Manchester, just one small area of Britain, police figures show a record number of racist attacks in the area - out of 572 reported cases last year, 60% of the victims were white - and detectives are investigating a total of three racially-motivated incidents during last weekend.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/uk/1294021.stm

Yes anti-semitism is a problem, yes it is disgusting but to lose a sense of perspective is to alienate the vast majority of the people of Europe. In reality the problem is that of racial collectivism, as with all forms of collectivism, all it succeeds in doing is formenting a mob mentality, violence and represents the outlook little above that of a chimpanzee. Not that one should conclude that racially motivated crime is spiralling out of control, rather it indicates the willingness even desire of the authorities to bring colour into everything. This, the racism of post-modernity, will lead us straight back to racism of the old school.

Your link is from 2001. In any case it is not about us alienating them, it is that they have always alienated us. Yes, there are/were some righteous people but let's be honest, not in overwhelming #'s. Do yourself a favor and conduct a little experiment. Try walking around with a Kippah or even a Magen David and let me know what happens...

[Robin Hood]

Your link is from 2001. In any case it is not about us alienating them, it is that they have always alienated us. Yes, there are/were some righteous people but let's be honest, not in overwhelming #'s. Do yourself a favor and conduct a little experiment. Try walking around with a Kippah or even a Magen David and let me know what happens...

Ok, I shall experiment. On the other hand the vast majority of my friends are not Jewish, and I have never lost a friend after telliung them. Anyway who alienated you? Was it people alive today? Are people responsible for the sins of their fathers, grandfathers, or even great grandfathers? I'll be honest: the overwhelming number of people in Britain today bear no ill will towards Jews whatsoever.

Perhaps if you want to discuss the political left and media's surely anti-semitic inspired, very vitriolic hatred of Israel, or point out the medieval Jew-hatred scarily widespread amongst Muslims here...you might have a point. To slander most of the British people, however, is really not on.

[Yala]

Ok, I shall experiment. On the other hand the vast majority of my friends are not Jewish, and I have never lost a friend after telliung them. Anyway who alienated you? Was it people alive today? Are people responsible for the sins of their fathers, grandfathers, or even great grandfathers? I'll be honest: the overwhelming number of people in Britain today bear no ill will towards Jews whatsoever.

Perhaps if you want to discuss the political left and media's surely anti-semitic inspired, very vitriolic hatred of Israel, or point out the medieval Jew-hatred scarily widespread amongst Muslims here...you might have a point. To slander most of the British people, however, is really not on.

No one alienated me, personally. I am not an Orthodox Jew so when I lived in Britain I didn't have any problems. That's not to say that they don't exist as many reports indicate anti-Semitic attacks in Britain are on the rise. Of course, these attacks mainly affect Orthodox people b/c they are very clearly Jewish.

Obviously, not all British people are Jew haters, but a huge portion of people on the left in Britain are serious Jew haters who hide behind the mask of "anti-Zionism." A politician like George Galloway would NEVER be tolerated in the US Gov't. We have haters here too but they are mostly in academia(you have no shortage of that type either).

I'll give you an example. My Israeli friend was working in Britain for a few months. He was supposed to stay on a year but said how anti-Israel the people were and all the news (BBC, Guardian, etc) made him feel so uncomfortable he just had to leave early and Robin, this guy is very left-wing!!! When he comes to the US he fights with all us American Jews about politics, so you can imagine how bad it must be.

BTW, Aviva, who also lives in London, I believe said she would be afraid to wear a Magen David in London. Now should that really be the case that in 2007, in a major metropolis like London a Jew should be afraid to wear a Magen David? Do you think the same is acceptable in NY, LA, Chicago? This is unacceptable, we cannot sit by and say "well our group of friends are not anti-Semites so everything must be roses." Sure, England isn't as bad as some others (like Spain or France) but they should be criticized when they deserve it. Not to mention we are all disgusted with how Tony Blair connects every problem in the world to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[Robin Hood]

That's not to say that they don't exist as many reports indicate anti-Semitic attacks in Britain are on the rise.

The same reports indicate that race-hate crime as a whole is on the rise. Considering the decline on decline of nationalism as a political force and the diminishing frequency of riots I suspect this is due either to increased police sensitivity and/or the result of rather unpleasant doctrines finding fertile ground amongst Muslims in this country. The latter make up a very small proportion of the population, I doubt they could be totally responsible. In other words what you have done is seperate one aspect of racial tension from the wider picture and so misconstrued the nature of it.


Obviously, not all British people are Jew haters, but a huge portion of people on the left in Britain are serious Jew haters who hide behind the mask of "anti-Zionism." A politician like George Galloway would NEVER be tolerated in the US Gov't. We have haters here too but they are mostly in academia(you have no shortage of that type either).

A decent proportion of people on the left who work in politics and the media, yes. Anything approaching even a small proportion of the British population, no. As for acadaemia, I'm not so sure, rather their attacks on Israel - and many of those on the left - seem more likely to be the product of a desperate attempt to appear as radical - a pose, in other words a childish substitute for their heavily discredited and actually murderous prior political beliefs.


I'll give you an example. My Israeli friend was working in Britain for a few months. He was supposed to stay on a year but said how anti-Israel the people were and all the news (BBC, Guardian, etc) made him feel so uncomfortable he just had to leave early and Robin, this guy is very left-wing!!! When he comes to the US he fights with all us American Jews about politics, so you can imagine how bad it must be.

Which people was he mixing with? As for the media, they are guilty as charged. Not necessarily because of prejudice, however, but often because the Islamic terrorists have propoganda down. They are fighting a media war and Israel just doesn't seem to get it.


BTW, Aviva, who also lives in London, I believe said she would be afraid to wear a Magen David in London. Now should that really be the case that in 2007, in a major metropolis like London a Jew should be afraid to wear a Magen David? Do you think the same is acceptable in NY, LA, Chicago? This is unacceptable, we cannot sit by and say "well our group of friends are not anti-Semites so everything must be roses." Sure, England isn't as bad as some others (like Spain or France) but they should be criticized when they deserve it.

She is? What reason does she give?


Not to mention we are all disgusted with how Tony Blair connects every problem in the world to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Yes, he is a moron. Stupidity does not equal race-hate however.

[nbarzelay]

I can see a trend happening here. There are posters here who regard Europe as chock-full of anti-semites, which there are a large number, but do not constitute a majority of Europeans. But then again, Nazis didn't consistute a majority of Europe and you know what happened here. And then there are posters here, for example, Robin Hood, who completely underestimate the existence and influence of extremism, namely that of Muslim extremism/Islamism in the UK, choosing rather to write off a real threat to UK's society as a mere temporary fad.

Robin Hood, you do have to realize that there does exist a large number of 'closet extremists' who don't expose themselves and take part in hate marches organized by vehemently anti-semitic mullahs and other muslim leaders. The quiet ones are the most dangerous.

I'm afraid the British government also underestimates this potential threat and is afraid of infringing the rights of UK citizens/temporary residents and being sued, choosing rather to dance around actual solutions. One thing you can learn from the Dutch here since they are acting, although still not as much as they should.

Islamists will continue, as they have done for quite some time now, to employ the rights and freedoms so valued by UK citizens as the achilles heel of British society, rights and freedoms that will never exist in an Islamic country.

Personally, I don't quite understand why these sort of marches are protected under the statutes of free-speech/expression since these marches are in complete contradiction to these statutes. Libel and incitement to violence are not protected freedoms.

Lastly, you do have to realize that exposing yourself as a Jew in Britian has become just as precarious as doing so in Belgium and France. Attacks on Jews are on the rise, and although race-hate crime is on the rise overall, Jews have always constituted a minority of the overall British population, so these attacks will always constitute a small proportion of the overall proportion, hence overall statistics cannot really paint a proper picture of the actual situation. Take in mind also, that just as in the Netherlands, those who are responsible for these hate-crime attacks are people of Middle East/Near East/North African origins, as one can see with the hate-crime attacks in the Netherlands are mostly associated with Morrocans (not so much with Turks, as some may believe).

It's time the British government grows some cojones and solve the situation with stringent methods (not like those as seen in the movie 'V for Vendetta', but you know what I mean).

[Robin Hood]

There are posters here who regard Europe as chock-full of anti-semites, which there are a large number, but do not constitute a majority of Europeans. But then again, Nazis didn't consistute a majority of Europe and you know what happened here.

Anti-semitism in contemporary Europe should not even be compared to that existent in 1930's Germany.


And then there are posters here, for example, Robin Hood, who completely underestimate the existence and influence of extremism, namely that of Muslim extremism/Islamism in the UK, choosing rather to write off a real threat to UK's society as a mere temporary fad.

I don't underestimate that. I also don't overestimate the numbers of Muslims in Europe. I know all about the anti-semitic views quite prevalent amongst Muslims over here - friends of that religion have informed me.


Robin Hood, you do have to realize that there does exist a large number of 'closet extremists' who don't expose themselves and take part in hate marches organized by vehemently anti-semitic mullahs and other muslim leaders. The quiet ones are the most dangerous.

They also hate all other Europeans. There is no need to divide the issue.


I'm afraid the British government also underestimates this potential threat and is afraid of infringing the rights of UK citizens/temporary residents and being sued, choosing rather to dance around actual solutions. One thing you can learn from the Dutch here since they are acting, although still not as much as they should.

The British government have no problem with curtailing civil liberties - they do it all the time, more and more. Perhaps they just don't believe that the solution to the threat of tyranny is more tyranny.


Personally, I don't quite understand why these sort of marches are protected under the statutes of free-speech/expression since these marches are in complete contradiction to these statutes. Libel and incitement to violence are not protected freedoms.

Freedom of speech is either complete or empty. If you want politically regulated speech then come out and state it honestly. Banning stupid and irrational hate only gives it an aura of credibility, something it's far less likely to achieve out in the open. Nevermind the basic principle that people should be allowed the autonomy to make their own decisions as to how to employ their tongue and voice box.


Take in mind also, that just as in the Netherlands, those who are responsible for these hate-crime attacks are people of Middle East/Near East/North African origins, as one can see with the hate-crime attacks in the Netherlands are mostly associated with Morrocans (not so much with Turks, as some may believe).

In other words it is a small minority of the population and all these blanket hatred directed at Europeans is a product of ignorance.....or hate.


It's time the British government grows some cojones and solve the situation with stringent methods (not like those as seen in the movie 'V for Vendetta', but you know what I mean).

They should use methods just as those deployed in V for Vendetta...by V. They should make a real and profoundly principled stand for liberty - of all types - giving something for people to strive for. Muslims are humans, of course, and will respond to such political leadership as would anyone else. By dropping their prejudices and actually working towards a happier, more prosperous and tolerant future.

[nbarzelay]

Anti-semitism in contemporary Europe should not even be compared to that existent in 1930's Germany.

I don't underestimate that. I also don't overestimate the numbers of Muslims in Europe. I know all about the anti-semitic views quite prevalent amongst Muslims over here - friends of that religion have informed me.

They also hate all other Europeans. There is no need to divide the issue.

The British government have no problem with curtailing civil liberties - they do it all the time, more and more. Perhaps they just don't believe that the solution to the threat of tyranny is more tyranny.

Freedom of speech is either complete or empty. If you want politically regulated speech then come out and state it honestly. Banning stupid and irrational hate only gives it an aura of credibility, something it's far less likely to achieve out in the open. Nevermind the basic principle that people should be allowed the autonomy to make their own decisions as to how to employ their tongue and voice box.

In other words it is a small minority of the population and all these blanket hatred directed at Europeans is a product of ignorance.....or hate.

They should use methods just as those deployed in V for Vendetta...by V. They should make a real and profoundly principled stand for liberty - of all types - giving something for people to strive for. Muslims are humans, of course, and will respond to such political leadership as would anyone else. By dropping their prejudices and actually working towards a happier, more prosperous and tolerant future.

You missed my comparison to anti-semitism and Nazi Germany. I was talking in terms of proportions, not the flavour of the anti-semitism. The difference between what we see today compared to the 1930's-50's is the level of organization and policies (be they at the government level or community-based) implemented to enact this anti-semitism. Today, Islamism and the anti-semitism associated with it are becoming more and more organized, so hate-crime will continue to rise as time progresses.

Don't be so arrogant to assume all the going-ons of the Uhmmah in the UK. It's safe to assume that you don't know everything that goes on in this Islamic community. Sure, you have some insight, but there are definite limitations to this insight judging by the statements you make above.

There are different levels of hatred towards dhimmihs in the Islamic community, where ever you are in the world which is also applicable to the UK ummah, where the polytheists and atheists are amongst the worst. This is all stated quite clearly in the Quran, so if one is observant and adheres the tenets stated within the Quran, a predictable patterm forms. If you think that Christians are hated by Islamists on the same level as Hindus and Jews, you better get some better insight into the situation.

Freedom of speech/expression does not solely deal with absolutes. There are different levels to this as well and the extent to which these freedoms can be practiced. Let me state again that definite limitations to these freedoms are set, especially when it comes to libel and incitement of violence, which are NOT protected freedoms. This can be clearly seen in both the US, UK, the Netherlands and other countries with clearly defined constitutions.

How do you assume that acting is strongly correlated with tyranny? You have a problem with absolutes as a poster by the name of Takeo has.

I'm not stating any 'blanket hatred' towards Europeans in general, since I am one. Where do you come up with this? I merely have a problem with these Islamists in my country and should be summarily deported from where they came from. Sure, you have a problem with this, but I don't.

The last paragraph really sounds like a cheesy US Presidential runner campaign commercial meets GI Joe episode-closer. Be a little more realistic, you live in a bubble.

*EDIT* As for V for Vendetta, they mentioned the Quran 3 (I think 4) times, where that chap said the Quran was a work of art and poetic, although he doesn't read a word of Arabic. Quite strange eh? Another futuristic movie where Islam is either vilified and presented for what it is or doesn't exist at all since it's archaic and barbaric.

[Yala]

The same reports indicate that race-hate crime as a whole is on the rise. Considering the decline on decline of nationalism as a political force and the diminishing frequency of riots I suspect this is due either to increased police sensitivity and/or the result of rather unpleasant doctrines finding fertile ground amongst Muslims in this country. The latter make up a very small proportion of the population, I doubt they could be totally responsible. In other words what you have done is seperate one aspect of racial tension from the wider picture and so misconstrued the nature of it.

Not really a valid argument if you actually look at the numbers/statistics:

Jewish people are four times more likely to be attacked because of their religion than Muslims, according to figures compiled by the police.

One in 400 Jews compared to one in 1,700 Muslims are likely to be victims of "faith hate" attacks every year. The figure is based on data collected over three months in police areas accounting for half the Muslim and Jewish populations of England and Wales. The crimes range from assault and verbal abuse to criminal damage at places of worship
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam117.xml
There is even a breakdown if you click on the link and these statistics are very recent (12/06) as opposed to the article you cited from 2001.




As for acadaemia, I'm not so sure, rather their attacks on Israel - and many of those on the left - seem more likely to be the product of a desperate attempt to appear as radical - a pose, in other words a childish substitute for their heavily discredited and actually murderous prior political beliefs.

True, or they are extremely anti-American and since Israel is so closely allied with America then they must oppose Israel, as well. Their predecessors made the same mistake when they supported Communist dictators instead of the political prisoners of the Communists. Still doesn't excuse their blatant anti-Semitism in their campaign posters and aligning themselves with other Jew haters or marching with signs that say "We are all Hezbollah." I hate to make Nazi comparisons but many people joined the Nazi party for money, for example, not b/c they hated Jews. Does that make them acceptable? Leftists and Islamists make strange bedfellows indeed, but they are bedfellows these days nonetheless. I wonder how the uber-feminists or lesbians would like living under Sharia...


Which people was he mixing with? As for the media, they are guilty as charged. Not necessarily because of prejudice, however, but often because the Islamic terrorists have propoganda down. They are fighting a media war and Israel just doesn't seem to get it.

Au contraire, the BBC and Guardian actively contribute to the Islamic & Palestinian terrorist propaganda. And our job is to figure out why.


She is? What reason does she give?

Maybe she reads the news.



Yes, he is a moron. Stupidity does not equal race-hate however.

No, he's not a moron. He's just a product of a society which views all of the problems of the world as the fault of the Jews, or in this case, Israel.

[Yala]

They should use methods just as those deployed in V for Vendetta...by V. They should make a real and profoundly principled stand for liberty - of all types - giving something for people to strive for. .

Oh, please, that was one of the dumbest movie I have ever seen. They ruined a perfectly good comic book to make a movie about smearing Bush. Even the author, Alan Moore, trashed it:

"It's a thwarted and frustrated and perhaps largely impotent American liberal fantasy of someone with American liberal values [standing up] against a state run by neo-conservatives — which is not what "V for Vendetta" was about. It was about fascism, it was about anarchy, it was about [England]. The intent of the film is nothing like the intent of the book as I wrote it. And if the Wachowski brothers had felt moved to protest the way things were going in America, then wouldn't it have been more direct to do what I'd done and set a risky political narrative sometime in the near future that was obviously talking about the things going on today?"

Let me guess...Robin, you're a college student, right?

[KettleWhistle]

Or perhaps like Ruth one or even many of my ancestors may have converted to Judaism, I could for all you know have a convert mother. Nonetheless that is irrelevant, your 'point' doesn't diminish the strength of the consensus amongst genetic scientists that we are all probably related in some small way since perhaps only a thousand years ago. Imagine a family tree stretching back and imagine just how far it would branch out. Statistically it should cover the entire global population - many times over.
So according to you, and others who prefer to conviniently disown their history, a few non-Jews amongst hundreds of your ancestors make you an ethnic non-Jew?


The outright racism displayed in your last comment disturbs me, even ashames me. I said nothing about anyone's race.

[KettleWhistle]

Oh, please, that was one of the dumbest movie I have ever seen. They ruined a perfectly good comic book to make a movie about smearing Bush. Even the author, Alan Moore, trashed it:

"It's a thwarted and frustrated and perhaps largely impotent American liberal fantasy of someone with American liberal values [standing up] against a state run by neo-conservatives — which is not what "V for Vendetta" was about. It was about fascism, it was about anarchy, it was about [England]. The intent of the film is nothing like the intent of the book as I wrote it. And if the Wachowski brothers had felt moved to protest the way things were going in America, then wouldn't it have been more direct to do what I'd done and set a risky political narrative sometime in the near future that was obviously talking about the things going on today?"

Let me guess...Robin, you're a college student, right?
I can't believe somebody would even bring up that piece of trash.

[Yala]

Vichy-era law still forces Jews to pay extra for property

Jews in Nice who want to buy an apartment have to pay an added fee of €900-€7,000 to skirt an outdated Vichy government law still on the books which prohibits them from owning apartments in that city, The Jerusalem Post has learned.

Even after the recent death of Vichy collaborator Maurice Papon, who was one of the forerunners in stripping French Jews of their rights and assets, there is a lingering and discriminatory presence hovering over the Jews of France.

The proprietary edict from the Vichy government stating that Jews are not allowed to own, or have joint ownership of, property is still embedded in the current legal system employed by the city council of Nice, situated on the French Riviera.

"The clause is disgraceful and illegal," Martine Ouaknine, spokeswoman for the Nice branch of the Council of Jewish Institutions in France (CRIF) told the Post from Nice.

The Nice Municipality confirmed that the law still exists, but downplayed its significance as a deterrent for Jews who wish to own prime real-estate in one of the wealthiest and most well known parts of Europe.

The law states that for someone to own a building, they have to make the following declaration: "[They] are French citizens", "[They] are not Jews" and "[They] are not the spouse of a Jew." "It would shock me to think that such a law exists today in France," said a French official in Tel Aviv. "The first measure the government took after the war was to retract the laws of the Vichy government."

However, the article has not been retracted. "The problem is that the clause is inside the contract, and people only pay attention to the price, not the stipulations. In December 2000, a bill was passed to modify the [property] laws and this clause will fall under the review," Ouaknine added.

"[The situation] is horrific. The owners and the syndicates must take the initiative to modify the law" said the CRIF Riviera President when interviewed by Nice-Matin reporter Jean-Francois Raubaud, "I don't know how such a law can exist. There should be no difference between Jews or Arabs or anyone else. There are many French Jews who have homes in Nice and all over the Riviera, myself included, and we were never asked our race, nor should we be," Rachelle Gutrach, whose late husband was a prominent French judge, told the Post.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1171894542838&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Kenneth]

A tackless mistake on behalf of the French beauracracy for having not removed this ugly law but, is it enforced? Apparently it's still ok for me to shoot arrows at Catholic priests so long as I do it from the bell tower of Trinity college Dublin.

[Mediocrates]

FWIW in North Carolina, Jews could not vote, hold public office or own real estate until 1868, fully three years after the slaves were emancipated. It was the second to last state to erect such laws. New Hampshire was the last.

It was not until the 1970's that most of the covenants in the US forbidding Jews to live in such and such a place were quietly dismantled.

[Yala]

Austrian leader celebrates Gestapo birthday
www.JTA.com

The Simon Wiesenthal Center demanded the resignation of an Austrian governor who attended a former Gestapo leader's birthday celebration.

Tyrol province Gov. Herwig Von Staa joined other politicians to mark the 90th birthday of Ferdinand Obenfeldner, who oversaw the Gestapo in Innsbruck during Kristallnacht in 1938. He also served as deputy mayor of Innsbruck from 1962 to 1985.

Efraim Zuroff, a Nazi hunter for the Los Angeles-based Wiesenthal Center, told The Associated Press he was outraged "that individuals whose deeds during the Nazi period -- who should be publicly repudiated -- instead are honored by Austrian public figures who clearly should be acting differently."

Zuroff learned of Obenfeldner's past when Austrian teachers contacted the center about the January birthday party. In addition to Von Staa, the mayor of Innsbruck and several regional leaders of the Social Democratic Party attended.

Tyrol's Social Democrats, defending their attendance, said on a party Web site that Obenfeldner has "always stood on the side of democracy," according to The Associated Press.

[Yala]

Hungarian political unrest spurs anti-Semitism
www.jta.com

Hungary's leader warned of rising anti-Semitism. Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany said in an interview published over the weekend that the hatred of Jews in Hungary has reached new heights since a wave of anti-government protests last year. "I have to say that there have never been so many anti-Semitic remarks as now," Gyurcsany told Britain's Times newspaper.

Hungary's left-leaning government was disgraced in September after it was revealed to have lied about the economy in order to win the previous election. Gyurcsany said that during the resulting demonstrations, protesters tried to blame Jewish politicians, apparently with the encouragement of right-wing opposition members. "There is something horrible happening," said Gyurcsany, whose wife is of Jewish descent.

[Mediocrates]

Yeah yeah lot of warning going on. I'm sure they feel they've done their job, warning everyone. The nearly 1 million Jews pogromed from North Africa, the Middle East and Iran took only about 6 years. I suspect that the final diaspora of Azkenazic Jewry will take about the same length of time. And it's not really a question of who will take them. Almost all those souls will wind up in Israel.

[Kenneth]

Hungary's got a bad reputation for xenophobia / rasism / homophopia / anti-semitism etc. etc.. Maybe the Jewish population there could move to Ireland, we need some good Lord Mayors right about now and we're fresh out of Briscoes.

[Yala]

Hungary's got a bad reputation for xenophobia / rasism / homophopia / anti-semitism etc. etc.. Maybe the Jewish population there could move to Ireland, we need some good Lord Mayors right about now and we're fresh out of Briscoes.

Hey Kenneth, maybe you know-why do some people say the Irish are one of the lost tribes of Israel?

[Mediocrates]

Wasn't a Lord Mayor of Dublin Jewish? Isn't there a Street of the Rabbis in Dublin?

[Kenneth]

Hey Kenneth, maybe you know-why do some people say the Irish are one of the lost tribes of Israel?

I've heard that one before, I think it's related to the spread of the Celtic races or something, the prophet Jeremiah is rumoured to have died in Ireland, appartently his bust in is Dublin castle.

Wasn't a Lord Mayor of Dublin Jewish? Isn't there a Street of the Rabbis in Dublin?

Yes, Ben Briscoe was Lord Mayor from 1988 to 99, before that he had a seat in Government for 37 years, he retired in 2002. His Father, Robert Briscoe was the first Jewish Lord Mayor of Dublin, he was also involved in local/regional politics for a long time, and a member of the IRA during the War of Independence.

The Street of the Rabbi's is now called Clanbrassil Street (the birthplace of Joyce's character Leopold Bloom).

[Yala]

Study: 10 percent of Swiss anti-Semitic

Ten percent of the Swiss population is anti-Semitic, according to a recent study. The 10 percent, the study said, had "systematic anti-Semitic attitudes," meaning across the board, Swiss news outlet NZZ online reported, while another 28 percent held some anti-Semitic views.

Alfred Donath, president of the Swiss Federation of Jewish Communities, told Swiss news agencies that the 10 percent figure was "worrying," but noted that it had remained constant in recent years.

Thirty-seven percent of those polled had a positive attitude toward Jews, and 55 percent said they held the country's Jewish community of some 20,000 in high regard. But the majority of respondents, 54 percent, said Israel is governed by religious fanatics and 50 percent believed Israel is carrying out a "war of extermination" in the territories.

The study, which was published last Friday, was carried out by the gfs polling institute for Switzerland's Federal Commission against Racism in cooperation with the Jewish weekly magazine Tachles. Results were based on a poll of 1,030 people across Switzerland in February.

www.jta.org

[nbarzelay]

Probably the Swiss who worked at the banks whom bankrolled the Nazis and later had to pay a sizeable chunck back to the Jews that demanded compensation....

Who really cares...they're swiss, all they are good for is making chocolate, watches, and Swiss Miss.

[Mediocrates]

In WW2 the Swiss head of the IRC (Red Cross) was Swiss -German who owned an interest in a slave labor camp in the Reich. The Swiss shot down 36 American bombers over Switzerland and interred them in a POW camp run by the German army. German airmen who were supposedly interred in Switzerland were given weekend vacations in Swiss resorts. The Luftwaffe on occasion was given landing rights in Switzerland and oil to the Reich came from Romanian to Italy and through Switzerland, to Germany.

Let's not make a big deal about the so called Swiss neutrality. Even Spain, a fascist government was a better place for refugees and POWs than Switzerland.

[Kenneth]

IIRC for people of non-Swiss stock it takes four genertions before nationality is granted. Maybe its three, but either way they seem to be a tight little bunch of cuckoos.

[nbarzelay]

Well, at least a good response from Merkel on her visit to Ramallah. Hooray!:

Palestinians ‘offended’ by Merkel’s pro-Israel stance. (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1173879239085&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull)



Palestinian Authority officials have accused German Chancellor Angela Merkel of “offending the Palestinians’ feelings” during her visit earlier this week to Ramallah, where she met with PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

The accusations, the first of their kind against a European leader, were made by top PA officials only hours after Merkel and her entourage left Ramallah on Monday. “She did everything to provoke the Palestinians during her visit,” said one official. “She showed no understanding for the plight of our people. On the other hand, she appeared to be very biased toward Israel.”

The official claimed that while Merkel refused to meet with families of Palestinian prisoners held in Israel, she focused during her talks with Abbas on the need to release kidnapped IDF Cpl. Gilad Schalit, who has been held in the Gaza Strip since last June. In addition, he noted, Merkel met with the families of missing IDF soldiers during her visit to Jerusalem.

At the joint press conference with Abbas, Merkel refused to answer a question about the Palestinian prisoners in Israel, the official added. “She appeared to be obsessed with the case of Gilad Schalit,” he said. “But she refused to even acknowledge the fact that we have more than 10,000 prisoners in Israel.”

Another PA official described Merkel’s visit to Ramallah as “extremely negative and a total disappointment.” He revealed that Abbas had originally requested that the meeting take place in Bethlehem, where Christians are celebrating Holy Week.

“We were hoping to show her the wall that Israel built around Bethlehem, but she refused to go there,” he said. “President Abbas was hoping to draw parallels between Israel’s wall and the Berlin Wall. He wanted to remind Merkel of the days when she lived in East Berlin.”


Nice try Palestinian propaganda machine....

[The Israeli Guy]

This article (http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9428/dsc013252pf5.jpg) was published by Itamar Aichner in Yediot Achronot at 24.11.06:

And where does the anti-semite literature is being sold? At the parliament

The presidnet of Ukraine, Victor Yushchenko, declared couple of times in the past that he will fight in the anti-semitism in his country, but he doesn't have to go far to search for anti-Jewish instigation. In the parliament in Kiev there is a book shop which sells the best of the anti-semite litrature. According to the Jewish parliament member, Alexander Feldman, it's available to buy in the shop the "Protocols of the elders of Zion", the book "The Jewish Syndrome" of Eduard Kodos and couple of anti-semite publications of M.A.O.P college of Kiev, which is known as the biggest supplier of anti-semite material in Ukraine. The Jewish community submited an official protest to the authorities and demanded them to prohibit the selling of such litrature in the book shop of the parliament.


German Jews: Atmosphere like 1930s

Copies of Anne Frank's diary burned at Neo-Nazi parties, Ethiopian youth beaten because of his ethnicity, student humiliated because of his association with Jews. These are only some manifestations of the rise in Neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic violence in Germany. Jewish community leaders say dangerous trend is being ignored by government Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3316778,00.html)


Australia: Record for anti-Semitic incidents

Australian Jews reported more anti-Semitic incidents in July than in any other month

Australian Jews reported more anti-Semitic incidents in July than in any other month since records began, according to the Executive Council of Australian Jewry (ECAJ). Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3300513,00.html)


British Parliament reports sharp rise in anti-Semitism

London law firm Mishcon de Reya in partnership with the Parliamentary Committee Against Anti-Semitism hosted a panel forum on Wednesday to discuss the All-Party Parliamentary Inquiry into Anti-Semitism, a report released in September which showed a sharp rise in anti-Semitism in the UK. Full article inside (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378307471&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)


Extremists plan mass Prague murders

According to Czech paper, Islamic extremists plot to kidnap, then kill Jews in synagogue in nation's capital

Islamic extremists planned to kidnap dozens of Jews in Prague and hold them hostage before murdering them, the daily Mlada Fronta Dnes reported on Friday. Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3311740,00.html)


Israelis in Budapest: We live in fear

Jewish Agency reports of sharp rise in number of anti-Semitic incidents around world, especially in Eastern Europe. On Saturday, Israeli students attacked by metro inspector in Hungarian capital simply for speaking Hebrew

A grim picture. In the recent period there has been a sharp and drastic surge in the number of anti-Semitic incidents in Eastern Europe. Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3327783,00.html)


Jewish school smashed up in Austria, man arrested

Vienna police arrest suspect for breaking into, vandalizing Jewish school in town Saturday night. Jewish community leader Ariel Muzicant: incident is very disturbing. No doubt an anti-Semitic act, done out of rage, hatred Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3332889,00.html)


London woman recalls violent anti-Semitic attack

Linda Cohen was serving drinks in her north London cafe one Sunday evening when two men stormed in, held a knife to her stomach and screamed that they would kill her for being a "stinking, dirty Jew" Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3300788,00.html)


Report shows anti-Semitism on the rise

Press conference by Jewish Agency reveals startling rise in anti-Semitic incidents across the world in 2006, including two murders. Austria sees 66 percent rise in incidents, Germany sees 60 percent rise, Russian incidents up by 20 percent Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3358000,00.html)


Russia synagogue vandalized

Leading Jewish group reports unidentified assailants paint swastikas, extremist slogans on Vladivostok synagogue

A leading Jewish organization reported Thursday that unidentified assailants painted swastikas and extremist slogans on a synagogue in a Russian Far Eastern city. Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3320129,00.html)


SIGN OF THE TIMES: Jewish Girl Beaten Unconscious on London Bus

JTA reports that a 12-year old Jewish girl, a passenger on a London bus, was beaten unconscious by four other girls, while three boys stood guard during the attack to prevent interference. The attackers asked the victim if she was Jewish before they attacked her. A friend of the victim, who was wearing rosary beads, was not harmed. Full article inside (http://hedgehogcentral.blogspot.com/2006/08/sign-of-times-jewish-girl-beaten.html)


UK: Swastikas on donations to Israel

British Jews sent donations to Israel, but the checks arrived with swastikas painted on them. The Royal Mail promises to probe

The Royal Mail this week promised to launch an investigation after Totally Jewish discovered that donations sent from Jews in London to a charity in Israel were being daubed with swastikas en route to their destination. Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290446,00.html)


Vienna: Man admits vandalizing Jewish school

Man probably a Croatian from Zagreb who came to Vienna as a tourist a week ago

A man in police custody admitted vandalizing a Jewish school in Vienna, an investigator said Monday. The man, whose name has not been released, is probably a Croatian from Zagreb who came to Vienna as a tourist a week ago, said Andreas Krajcsy of the Vienna police's section on state protection and anti-terrorism. Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3333502,00.html)


Jewish graves vandalized in Russia

Vandals painted swastikas on more than 100 Jewish and Tatar gravestones in a central Russian city and overturned many others - the latest in a string of anti-Semitic, racist and hate crime vandalism across the nation, police officials said Wednesday. Full article inside (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193369653&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull)


Shots fired at Oslo synagogue

At 2:30 a.m., perpetrators fire gunshots at synagogue in Norway’s capital from passing car; police open investigation. Jewish Oslo resident tells Ynet: Since war in Lebanon atmosphere here has become unpleasant for Jews Full article inside (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3304849,00.html)

This small article (http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7284/jkjh88vf0.jpg) was published in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Achronot on 24/10/06:

Tanks in the streets of Budapest

Severe confrontations broke out in the center of the Hungarian capital between tens of thousands of demonstrators to heavy forces of the police who fired tear gas. Tens were wounded and according to reports which weren't verified yet one demonstrator was killed. The demonstrators demanded from the government to resign. Part of the demonstrators gathered infront of the big synagogue in Dohani street and shouted anti-semite slogans like: "Run away together with the bloody Jews". The Hungarian radio reported that many tourists and Israelis amongst them found it difficult to get back to their hotels.

[The Israeli Guy]

This article (http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/6681/bndd8jn7.jpg) was written by Itamar Aichner and was published in Yediot Achronot at 24.11.06

Berlin: the police protect a Jewish girl from the Muslim pupils

Is it frightening again to be a Jew in Berlin? A 14 years old Jewish girl, former Israeli, has to arrive each day to school with a police escort which protect her from harassments of Arab and Muslim pupils who study with her. The distance from her house to the school is 700 meters.

The story of Ana (alias name) was published yesterday in the German TV and upon a whole page in the newspaper "Bild". The girl, born in Russia, moved with her parents to Israel and stayed there for 5 years untill they immigrated to Germany. She is living in the Kroytzberg quarter in the center of Berlin which consider to be a very problematic arrea. 40% of the population in the quarter isn't German and most of it is Muslim.

For years Ana hide from her friends to the class the fact she is Jewish and the fact that she was living 5 years in Israel. But before the summer vacation she revealed the fact that she is Jewish and the troubles started from this point. The pupils, most of them are Arabs and Muslims, have started to harass her. In an interview with her, she told that they started to throw names at her like "dirty Jew" and "**** Jew". The peak came in the time of the war in Lebanon. Couple of Arab pupils, some of them from Lebanese extraction, harassed her and blamed her for the IDF's bombing in Lebanon. Couple of pupils even hit her and mainly 2 girls from her class that according the publication, have abused her.

The school reported this matter to the police of Berlin and the police attached a police escort to the girl to prevent the harassments. Couple of days after, the girl moved to other school and the police escort has stopped. But the harassments continued. The same 2 girls who hit her in the former school, ambushed her on her way home back from school and hit her again. At this point, the police returned and attached her an escort on her way back from school.

The spokesman of the police of Berlin have said in response, that the police will continue to escort the Jewish girl, and at the same time there is an investigation against the attacking girls. Gideon Yofe, the president of the Jewish community in Berlin said that it's worrisome that Jews can't reveal their identity in publicity.

The Israeli ambassador in Germany, Shimon Shtein, have said recently that the Jews in Germany don't feel secure. "They can't always behave according their religion in a free way, and the heavy security methods, arround the synagogues and Jewish institutions in Germany, can prove it", the ambassador added. In an interview to a German newspaper, which was quoted all over the world, the Israeli ambassador have said that he is worried from the raising power of the radical right organizations in Germany and from the raise of anti-semitism. According to him, these trends are very worrisome and he calls for the whole German society to wake up.

The German ministry of the interior has published recently details in which in the first 8 months of the year there was an increasing of 20%, comparing to the same period in 2005, in the racist criminal deeds from neo Nazis: 8000 compared to 6605, respectively. In comparison to 2004 it's an increasing of 50%. According to the ministry of interior, in Germany there are about 40,000 radical right activists.

[cohrt]

Everywhere jewish societies decline in numbers and influence, less than a million left.

Jewish values an unknown entity, and if you don't emigrate to Israel you want to live anonymously in order to be left in peace and that obtained they forget their origines evidently more than willingly.

In 50 years no jewish societies in Europe.

[Justcurious]

More Jew Hate in Eurabia


Eurabia or Eujewland, whichever you prefer, the result is bound to be that both Arabs and Jews living in our continent are only considered very unpleasant. Is that what you want?

(Calling names is not polite.)

[Yala]

Eurabia or Eujewland, whichever you prefer, the result is bound to be that both Arabs and Jews living in our continent are only considered very unpleasant.



Is that what you want?

Jews and Arabs are treated and/or regarded as lesser beings in Europe. It's not what I want, it's just reality.

[Mediocrates]

California Campuses Gain a Reputation as Hotbeds of Anti-Israel Rhetoric

Daniel Treiman | Thu. Apr 05, 2007

The lecture topic was “The Threat to Israel’s Existence.” The speaker was Daniel Pipes, a Middle East analyst known for his hawkish pro-Israel views and sharp denunciations of Islamic extremism. The setting was the University of California, Irvine, a campus with a national reputation as a hotbed of anti-Israel rhetoric.

Students wearing Palestinian kaffiyehs clustered in the center of the auditorium.

The stage was set for confrontation.

Sure enough, 15 minutes into Pipes’s speech, just as he had built up to one of his main points — “The Palestinians must have their will crushed so that they will no longer be trying to eliminate Israel, so they will tend to their own affairs and leave Israel alone” — dozens of Muslim students interrupted him with hostile shouts, before promptly marching out of the lecture hall, chanting “anti-Israel, anti-oppression.”

Afterward, the student protesters gathered outside, where they listened to a speaker vow, “It’s just a matter of time before the State of Israel will be wiped off the face of the earth.” The crowd of students greeted his prediction with a robust cheer of “Allahu Akbar!” — Arabic for “God is great!”

“Our weapon, our jihad, our way of struggling in this country is with our tongues. We speak out, and we deflate their morale, and this is the best we can do right now,” the speaker continued. “And our brothers and sisters on the other side of the world, they’re handling business in their own way. May Allah give them strength.”

The scene was recorded on video by a Jewish student, and footage circulated on the Internet. Separate video of the initial interruption aired on the Fox News Channel show “Hannity & Colmes.”

The January 31 incident — which prompted the Hillel Foundation of Orange County to announce the formation of a task force to examine antisemitism at U.C. Irvine — was the latest in a series of Middle East-related blowups that have kept the Southern California campus in the news. In 2004, the Zionist Organization of America filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights, alleging that there was a “hostile, and at times, threatening” environment for Jewish students at U.C. Irvine. The president of the university’s Jewish student group, however, says that the school’s poor reputation is not entirely deserved, arguing that the rhetoric embraced by U.C. Irvine’s Muslim student group does not reflect the overall environment on campus.

U.C. Irvine though is only the most recent in what can seem like a rotation of California campuses to emerge as the focus of Jewish communal concern. At a number of California public universities, Jewish students have long faced particularly inflammatory rhetoric from anti-Israel activists — a state of affairs that predates even the most recent intifada. While at any given school, such activity tends to ebb and flow, established Muslim student groups in California repeatedly have brought fiery anti-Israel speakers to campus, including one who regularly praises suicide bombers, expresses support for Hamas and Hezbollah, and rails against “Zionist Jews.”

“I think the tenor and the tone of the debate and the shrillness of identity politics is meaningfully different in California,” said David Harris, director of the Washington-based Israel on Campus Coalition. “There are different challenges on campuses across the country, to be sure, but at some schools in California — especially large state schools — Israel’s supporters on campus are confronted with distinct challenges, including strongly heated rhetoric and a lack of respect and common civility.”

At the University of California, Berkeley, amid massive protests by pro-Palestinian students in the spring semester of 2002, the campus Hillel building was vandalized with antisemitic graffiti. According to the Anti-Defamation League, fliers maligning the Talmud were distributed on campus. In May 2002, Laurie Zoloth, then director of San Francisco State University’s Jewish studies program, penned a widely forwarded e-mail describing an incident in which pro-Israel students on her campus were surrounded by “an angry, out of control mob, literally chanting for our deaths” and had to receive a police escort back to their Hillel building.

While things have quieted down considerably at U.C. Berkeley and S.F. State since 2002, relations remain tense between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian students. San Francisco Hillel’s executive director, Alon Shalev, said that while there are still anti-Israel protests at S.F. State, “there’s no intimidation or the insults that were bandied before.”

Observers of campus affairs cite various reasons for the frequent militancy of anti-Israel sentiment at some California schools. They note that many California campuses have large Arab and Muslim student populations, while the percentage of Jews is often not as high as at East Coast schools. Another contributing factor, particularly in the San Francisco Bay Area, is a historically radical political climate. At some California campuses, the prevalence of extreme identity politics provides pro-Palestinian students with allies among militant members of other minority groups. Observers also point to a handful of aggressively anti-Israel speakers who make the rounds of California campuses, citing in particular Amir Abdel Malik Ali, an Oakland-based African-American Muslim cleric.

Last spring, Ali gave a notorious speech at U.C. Irvine during a week of activities sponsored by the campus Muslim Student Union under the rubric “Holocaust in the Holy Land.” Speaking on a campus plaza behind a sign reading “Israel, the 4th Reich,” Ali noted that Israelis are “reluctant to get on buses and things, or go to the café,” adding, “It’s about time that they live in fear.” He said that whereas Israelis are “coming to live,” they are opposed by “people who are ready to die, who say either victory or martyrdom. You can’t fight against that.”

“We will fight you until we are either martyred or until we are victorious,” he said. “That’s how we look at it. And they know that that’s how Muslims believe.”

Ali has been a regular presence on California university campuses for at least a decade. At U.C. Berkeley in the late 1990s, Ali was a fiery fixture at yearly anti-Israel protests organized by the campus Muslim Student Union.
In the past five years alone, Web research by the Forward found, he has appeared more than two-dozen times on over a dozen different California campuses, usually sponsored by established Muslim student groups, including regular speaking engagements at annual region-wide gatherings sponsored by the western division of the national Muslim Students Association, or MSA West, one as recently as January. Many but not all of Ali’s campus addresses are focused on Israel.

His speech last spring at U.C. Irvine was not out of the ordinary. “In America, you’re mostly fighting with your tongue. But you should also learn how to fight with the sword,” he told attendees at the 2004 MSA West conference at U.C. Berkeley, according to a report in the East Bay Express. He reportedly urged attendees to “work on building Islamic infrastructures in the USA now,” acknowledging, “There will be some poop-butts who will not want to live under sharia law and will leave.”

During a 2005 speech at U.C. Irvine, he referred to Palestinians who blew up Israeli buses as “freedom fighters,” railed against the “Zionist-controlled media,” called America “the belly of the beast” and accused supporters of a two-state solution of being “Uncle Tom Palestinian leaders.” Speaking last year to Muslim students at California State University, Long Beach, he said that “Zionist Jews were behind” a Danish newspaper’s publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

[Mediocrates]

“It is an extraordinarily disturbing development for those of us engaged in interfaith efforts to see mainstream student groups repeatedly invite such a hateful demagogue as Malik Ali to speak at campuses across California,” said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

Levin said that Israel, Zionism and foreign policy are all “legitimate areas of criticism and spirited public debate,” but that Ali’s rhetoric embraces “classic Jew-baiting” and “glorification of suicide bombings.”

Another repeat guest speaker of U.C. Irvine’s Muslim Student Union is Muhammad Al-Asi — an outspoken anti-Saudi imam and admirer of the late leader of Iran’s Islamic Revolution, Ayatollah Khomeini. In sermons posted online, Al-Asi condemns the media for failing to present “information that debunks the Holocaust,” calls for Muslims to “take on the cancerous Israeli presence in the Middle East” and says that American troops are in Afghanistan in order “to set back Islamic self-determination for many years to come.”

Appearing in February with Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss of the anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox group Neturei Karta at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology — in an event co-sponsored by a left-wing student organization headed by the president of the Muslim campus group — Al-Asi leveled a new charge. When asked about the crisis in Darfur, he said, “these humanitarian tragedies are always, it seems to me, at the service of the Zionist-imperialist nexus.”

Marya Bangee, who handles external public relations for U.C. Irvine’s Muslim Student Union, told the Forward that the conflict on her campus is not between Jews and Muslims. “We’re not against Jews, we’re against Zionists,” she said. She noted that the MSU had also hosted “Holocaust Industry” author Norman Finkelstein, a bitter critic of Israel, and Neturei Karta’s Weiss.

Bangee, who is also communications director of MSA West, said that the person who spoke to demonstrators outside the Pipes speech was a former student who was “speaking as an individual.” Referring to the speaker’s remark about wiping out Israel, Bangee said, “He was talking about the political apparatus of Israel, not the people there. I don’t think anybody condones the mass murder of thousands of people.”

She said that her club has invited Ali to campus “more than once because of the fact that he represents a viewpoint that is not normally represented in the mainstream. He is somebody that stands behind his words rather than just speaks. There are definitely statements that he makes that we would not agree with.”

But she expressed skepticism regarding charges that Ali is antisemitic.
“Anything that is antisemitic is really wrong. We don’t stand for hate-speech whatsoever,” she said. “I personally have not heard anything where he has said anything along that line. I think sometimes some of the things he says get taken out of context.”

Bangee previously had written an article in U.C. Irvine’s campus newspaper, New University, blasting Hillel for bringing Pipes to campus. “By inviting Daniel Pipes as their guest speaker, the message O.C. Hillel sent was one of hatred and intolerance,” she wrote.

Yehudit Barsky, an American Jewish Committee staffer who monitors Islamic extremism, says that the character of the national Muslims Students Association, an umbrella organization for many campus Muslim groups, contributes to tensions. “The MSA was established in 1963 in this country by people who are followers of the Muslim Brotherhood, and basically the line for the MSA really has not changed,” she said. At MSA West’s annual conference this past January — at which Ali was a speaker — the official program’s list of 11 suggested books included works by Hassan al-Banna, founder of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, and Sayyid Qutb, an anti-Western Egyptian intellectual who influenced many contemporary jihadists.

The Israel on Campus Coalition’s Harris stressed, however, that a large campus Muslim population did not inevitably lead to clashes with Jewish students. As an example, he cited New York University, where Jewish and Muslim students have successfully built bridges.

Cindy Greenberg, executive director of NYU’s Bronfman Center for Jewish Student Life, said that at her school “Muslim-Jewish relations are friendly, strong and productive.” She said that the school’s Muslim chaplain has played a critical role in fostering good relations between the two groups on campus, including a joint fellowship that brings Jewish and Muslim students together for dialogue and volunteer work.

“It’s not that we shy away from difficult topics,” she said. “We have difficult conversations but we have them together.”

Alex Chazen, president of U.C. Irvine’s Jewish Student Union, said that “there are students within MSU that want to dissent. The only issue is that if you’re a religious Muslim at U.C. Irvine, you want to be a part of the Muslim community in U.C. Irvine, if you’re not part of MSU, then you’re kind of outcast.”

He said that media coverage “does tend to exaggerate” the situation at U.C. Irvine. “It’s really the MSU that is very steadfastly anti-Israel, antisemitic, but once you get past them, the majority of the campus is either pro-Israel or indifferent,” he said.

Chazen said that, unlike some other California campuses, left-wing students at U.C. Irvine haven’t jumped on the anti-Israel bandwagon. He said that the only people who seem supportive of the MSU’s rhetoric have been followers of fringe political figure Lyndon LaRouche.

“Especially in today’s American climate,” he said, “a radical Islamic message isn’t really going to get you many friends.”

[Justcurious]

Jews and Arabs are treated and/or regarded as lesser beings in Europe. It's not what I want, it's just reality.


You have probably lived in more countries and therefore have more experiences. My experiences are that Jews in Finland and Britain are not considered inferior in any way.

Incidentally, we just had a general election in Finland and Ben Zyskowicz was once again re-elected. With about 1500 Jews in Finland, his 18 000 votes must have included some others as well.

http://www.ben.fi/

[Kenneth]

Is Finland considered Europe? I mean no disrespect but when the Europe sucks, Europe is bad, Europe is Evil, Eurabia nonsense starts flowing I generally imagine that the insults are directed at the French, German, Belgium, and Holland areas of Europe, and not the Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, UK portions.

[Cellis]

Is Finland considered Europe? I mean no disrespect but when the Europe sucks, Europe is bad, Europe is Evil, Eurabia nonsense starts flowing I generally imagine that the insults are directed at the French, German, Belgium, and Holland areas of Europe, and not the Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, UK portions.
well said. respect for finland.

[Justcurious]

Is Finland considered Europe? I mean no disrespect but when the Europe sucks, Europe is bad, Europe is Evil, Eurabia nonsense starts flowing I generally imagine that the insults are directed at the French, German, Belgium, and Holland areas of Europe, and not the Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, UK portions.


Yes, when I lived in Britain I learnt that Europe is continental Europe to Brits. I wonder how long it will take some to learn where they live. :p

[Yala]

You have probably lived in more countries and therefore have more experiences. My experiences are that Jews in Finland and Britain are not considered inferior in any way.

Incidentally, we just had a general election in Finland and Ben Zyskowicz was once again re-elected. With about 1500 Jews in Finland, his 18 000 votes must have included some others as well.

http://www.ben.fi/

OK, so in some places they are inferior, some places they are just looked at as outsiders. The anti-Semitic incidents are at an all time high in Europe, and no matter how many Jewish politicians are elected, these crimes cannot be brushed aside. For every 1 Jewish politician there are 10 George Galloways, Jean Marie Le Pens, etc.

I lived in Britain in the late 90's and I am not Orthodox (so not recognizable as a Jew) and didn't experience anything negative personally(loved it as a matter of fact) but the media in Britain is radical left wing and anti-Semitic, especially in recent years.... In 1999 there were 400,000 Jews in London and now there are only 300,000. 1/4 of a population don't leave for no reason. I know 8 British Jews who moved to Israel last year alone. Of course, a lot of the anti-Jewish incidents are being committed by immigrants, not the native Brits (excluding those racist Football hooligants), but no doubt the British media is stoking the flames.

Never been to Finland so can't comment either way, according to most on here it is the "Best of Europe" so I hope to visit one day.

[Yala]

Is Finland considered Europe? I mean no disrespect but when the Europe sucks, Europe is bad, Europe is Evil, Eurabia nonsense starts flowing I generally imagine that the insults are directed at the French, German, Belgium, and Holland areas of Europe, and not the Finland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, UK portions.

No, they're mostly directed at France, Belgium, Austria, Spain and UK (Londonistan). :)

However, our resident Danish Jew, Cohrt, has said that the Danes are openly anti-Semitic.

[Justcurious]

Yala, an interesting answer! Whereabouts in London did you live? I had Jewish friends in the Gants Hill area.

I have a feeling that you see negative things where they don't even exist. I think there is a tendency to see something unpleasant, if you see that there could be something. It might be useful to talk one day with a Jew living in Finland, Although I am an outsider, I never even read or hear about any problems. Would they help anybody?

[Gilgamesh]

I have a feeling that you see negative things where they don't even exist. Every Jew, Israeli or not, can tell you personal experiances of brushing against anti semetism in Europe, muslem or european. Many Israelis vecate in Europe, and familiar with the culture and languages, so you can't BS us.


It might be useful to talk one day with a Jew living in Finland, Although I am an outsider, I never even read or hear about any problems. Would they help anybody?
Danhalo here, is a Jew from Finland. He is many years in this forum, on and off, you can scan his posts and his testemonies.

If you'll confront a Jew, in Finland (or any other place in Europe) about his feelings, he will not tell you the whole truth, either out of fear, politeness or self denail. Jews in diaspora, too often lie themselves, believeing they can adjust or tolarate anti semetism, and the over all situation will improve in the future. On the general level, with the world war against Islamism raging on, things may improve toward Jews, regarding anti semetism. Though on personal level Jews might get murdered or wounded by anti semites. On the personal level the general improvement is meaningless.

[Yala]

Yala, an interesting answer! Whereabouts in London did you live? I had Jewish friends in the Gants Hill area.

Bloomsbury


I have a feeling that you see negative things where they don't even exist.

I don't have that vivid of an imagination, you see. I have traveled extensively throughout Europe and I can say with 100% certainty that wearing a Jewish star will get dirty looks at best and a good beating at worst. As a matter of fact I asked the Jewish inhabitants of Europe this particular question in a thread and almost all agreed it is a dangerous thing to do.



I think there is a tendency to see something unpleasant, if you see that there could be something. It might be useful to talk one day with a Jew living in Finland, Although I am an outsider, I never even read or hear about any problems. Would they help anybody?

As I said, I make no judgments on Finland, never been and never heard anything too bad.

[Yala]

but the media in Britain is radical left wing and anti-Semitic, especially in recent years....

More of my imagination?...I guess they are through even pretending that they have no bias...

Report: UK journalist union votes to boycott Israeli goods
Apr. 14, 2007 15:23 | Updated Apr. 14, 2007 19:02
By JPOST.COM STAFF

Britian's National Union of Journalists has voted at its annual meeting for a boycott of Israeli goods as part of a protest against the Second Lebanon War, the British daily Guardian reported on its Web site Friday evening.

The vote was carried 66 to 54 - a result that met with mixed responses from the NJU delegates present.

The motion came during a series of motions on international affairs and read: "This ADM [annual delegate meeting] calls for a boycott of Israeli goods similar to those boycotts in the struggles against apartheid South Africa led by trade unions and the TUC [Trades Union Congress] to demand sanctions be imposed on Israel by the British government and the United Nations."

The motion was originally brought by the union's South Yorkshire branch in February and was opposed by the Cumberland branch, which said it was too political and was not closely enough related to journalistic matters.

After a show of hands twice failed to give a clear result, union scrutineers were called in and the doors to the conference room closed.

The vote on the motion was taken after it was split from a larger motion that condemned the "savage, pre-planned attack on Lebanon by Israel" last year.

This motion, known as Composite B in Order Paper 4, was carried by a large majority and also condemned the "slaughter of civilians by Israeli troops in Gaza and the IDF's continued attacks inside Lebanon" following what the motion defined Israel's "defeat" by Hizbullah.

The motion called for the "end of Israeli aggression in Gaza" and other territories inhabited by Palestinians. The Yorkshire branch of the NJU neglected to mention in its motion either the fact that Israel was keeping a ceasefire with the Palestinian Authority, despite the fact that southern towns in Israel were, and still are, sporadically fired upon with Kassam rockets.

Also absent from the motion was any mention of the hundreds of civilians bombarded with projectile rockets for over a month in the summer of 2006.

Israel's casus bell - the kidnapping of IDF reservists Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev in a cross-border raid on July 12, was also missing from the motion. Six other reserve soldiers were killed in Hizbullah's carefully-orchestrated attack, which started the war.

....

[Parsi]

...I can say with 100% certainty that wearing a Jewish star will get dirty looks at best and a good beating at worst. As a matter of fact I asked the Jewish inhabitants of Europe this particular question in a thread and almost all agreed it is a dangerous thing to do....

I think one's personal perception is the most important factor here. Try to grow a long beard and wear a typical steriotyped Muslim dress and I guarantee 500% you'll get those dirty looks.

I have heard these sort of statements from Indians, coloured people, etc.

[Yala]

I think one's personal perception is the most important factor here. Try to grow a long beard and wear a typical steriotyped Muslim dress and I guarantee 500% you'll get those dirty looks.

I have heard these sort of statements from Indians, coloured people, etc.


As I said in post #80 both Jews and Arabs (and people who look like Arabs) are looked down at in Europe. That is, of course, unacceptable. However, in the UK, Jews are 4 times as likely as a Muslim to be victim of a hate crime.

[Gilgamesh]

I think one's personal perception is the most important factor here. Try to grow a long beard and wear a typical steriotyped Muslim dress and I guarantee 500% you'll get those dirty looks.

I have heard these sort of statements from Indians, coloured people, etc.

True, but with one big difference:
Different from muslems, Jews or Hindus or Bahay or others have never targeted innocent European civilians, never toop part in any act of terrorism.
Any bias against Jews, Hindus and like is baseless.