Who wants peace?

[danholo]

On many threads other sides blame the other side for "not wanting peace".
Well I'm on the pro-Israel side and I say it's the Jews that want peace. Why?

I'll tell you. The future generations are those who will continue to build the country and it's vital to know what these children are taught. Bringing up a child will mold the child into what he will become eventually.

So it's important to examine what Palestinian and Israeli children are taught in educational facilities.

Visit this site: http://www.edume.org and find out what these children are thaught.

I think this site tells all. Even Haredi-children get "moderate toned" education compared to their Palestinian counterparts. May I remind you that the Palestinian school books infect every kid that goes to school in Palestinian areas.

This is one of the worst aspects of this "conflict", IMO.
These children have already been indoctrinated from birth.
Israel is a "catalyst" for melding these corrupt brains but this is because young children are taught to kill Jews.

[minusthejihad]

This is terrible. Yet human rights groups would rather complain about a few helpless victims of a deliberate attack against the Osama Bin Laden of the gulf, than actually admit that what is happening to Palestinian children at the hands of their own leaders and parents is a shame, travesty, and an international humanitarian crisis. This is plain CHILD ABUSE.

Any parent that indoctrinates their child to hate and deliberately puts them in danger by encouraging them to commit suicide is an abusive parent. There is no excuse for this. It is a shame that UNICEF or Amnesty International refuses to cry out against this practice. When they should make this their main priority (Keeping children healthy and safe IS their main priority), they instead add an extra sentence to their report that goes unnoticed.

What a Shame.

[Simon]

Judging from some posts, I'd say that a few of these indoctrinated children are posting on this forum as well. :D

[Rafman]

that is the heart of the problem.

Children thaught to hate Jews from thier birth.

A hatred reinforced by the corrupt Arab media, who constantly spew lies concerning the Jews of the most antisemitic nature possibe.

The only hope in this conflict is to end the hatred. There are more immediate concerns sadly, such as trying to keep everyone alive in this war where innocent victims die everyday, but hopefully one day soon organiztions like the UN will recognize this and do something about it.

[Mohoc]

The probem is that the hate is bi-lateral. It doesn't help if only the Palestinians stop hating....The Jews have to stop hating too.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Mohoc
The probem is that the hate is bi-lateral. It doesn't help if only the Palestinians stop hating....The Jews have to stop hating too. "The Jews" expression again... tsk tsk. Say Israelis instead please. I'm not sounding paranoid am I?

BTW, do you know how many Jews are there in Israel and how many are there in the Diaspora? If you relate the numbers you'll see that even using the expression "the majority of Jews" would be incorrect.

[Moon]

Mohoc's signature: "Reality is a user-defined parameter"

My signature: "If you're an anti-semite keep your reality for yourself and don't touch me"

A funny coincidence or a chilling coincidence?

Yes, I'm definately paranoid. I need help. :p

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Mohoc
The probem is that the hate is bi-lateral. It doesn't help if only the Palestinians stop hating....The Jews have to stop hating too.

though it is far less likely that however they feel, if they are not attacked they will simply launch random attacks across the border or will defend their citizens in Yesha unattacked with warfare, no?

[elke]

Originally posted by Moon
Mohoc's signature: "Reality is a user-defined parameter"

My signature: "If you're an anti-semite keep your reality for yourself and don't touch me"

A funny coincidence or a chilling coincidence?

Yes, I'm definately paranoid. I need help. :p

I don't think you are paranoid. That signature is indeed ludicrous. What floors me is that all these moral relativists scream the loudest about the "injustice to the Palestinians". If reality is relative, then so is justice, no? This is called "being hung by one's own petard". :rolleyes:

[Mohoc]

Originally posted by Moon
"The Jews" expression again... tsk tsk. Say Israelis instead please. I'm not sounding paranoid am I?

BTW, do you know how many Jews are there in Israel and how many are there in the Diaspora? If you relate the numbers you'll see that even using the expression "the majority of Jews" would be incorrect.

I said Jews when I meant Israelis because there are also Christians and a few Muslims that are Israelis. I don't know much about their point of view do you? If not maybe someone else does....I would like to hear their thoughts for once.

[Vic]

Originally posted by Mohoc
I said Jews when I meant Israelis because there are also Christians and a few Muslims that are Israelis. I don't know much about their point of view do you? As opposed to your profound knowledge of what "The Jews" think and feel? Ugh...

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Mohoc
The probem is that the hate is bi-lateral. It doesn't help if only the Palestinians stop hating....The Jews have to stop hating too.

That would be nice in a perfect world.

As it is, no one really has to change their mind, but the Palestinians do need to change their actions: They need to stop their terrorism and understand that they will not succeed in perpetrating a Jihad-genocide on the Jewish people of Israel.

Maybe in future generations, I hope, the hate will disappear, but that's a secondary issue in comparison with the current Palestinian culture of terrorism.

[Mohoc]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


That would be nice in a perfect world.

As it is, no one really has to change their mind, but the Palestinians do need to change their actions: They need to stop their terrorism and understand that they will not succeed in perpetrating a Jihad-genocide on the Jewish people of Israel.

Maybe in future generations, I hope, the hate will disappear, but that's a secondary issue in comparison with the current Palestinian culture of terrorism.

yes it would be. To bad it isn't. On the other hand, if this was a perfect world, what would there be to talk about?

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Mohoc

yes it would be. To bad it isn't. On the other hand, if this was a perfect world, what would there be to talk about?

Plenty of things! I've never subscribed to the idea that peaceful=uninteresting.

[ayesha]

Originally posted by Mohoc
The probem is that the hate is bi-lateral. It doesn't help if only the Palestinians stop hating....The Jews have to stop hating too.

i have said this in a previous thread, we must change the mentality of the people. only then will suicide bombing and such violence from either side will stop. in a way palestinians have taken the stance of 'i die therefore i exist'. HOW to get rid of this stigma is the problem, and also the solution.

[Simon]

'i die therefore i exist'

I think you got it completely wrong. The raison d'etre for the Palestinians, as for Arabs/Muslims seems to be:

The Jew must die, therefore I exist

[ayesha]

i think thats a bit harsh, and very narrow minded. u cant speak for everyone.

[Vic]

Originally posted by Simon
'i die therefore i exist'

I think you got it completely wrong. The raison d'etre for the Palestinians, as for Arabs/Muslims seems to be:

The Jew must die, therefore I exist Fortunately not for all of them, by far, but: We, the nation of Islam are charged
with worshipping Allah by hating the Jews.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?threadid=896 I doubt that this is mainstream Islam, isn't it what some call "islamofascism"?

[Mohoc]

Originally posted by ayesha


i have said this in a previous thread, we must change the mentality of the people. only then will suicide bombing and such violence from either side will stop. in a way palestinians have taken the stance of 'i die therefore i exist'. HOW to get rid of this stigma is the problem, and also the solution.

this is true. but you can't stop the violence by one side and then expect the other side to stop a month later. Society could not accept that. Therefore the circle starts again. If we can break the circle of violence, be it terrorism or "Israeli self-defense", the we can start meaningful negotiations. With meanningful negotiation I don't mean that Israel puts down a list of stuff in front of the Paletinians and make them begg for food, money and land.

[Mediocrates]

nor does it mean a laundry list of absolute coterminus requirements and demands from the PA where even questioning one of them means the PA gets up from the table and goes to way again.

I fully expect a PA requirement in the near future to say something like "grant us immortality and the ability to fly like birds".

[Mohoc]

yeah...that would be something

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by ayesha
... in a way palestinians have taken the stance of 'i die therefore i exist'. HOW to get rid of this stigma is the problem, and also the solution.

Yes, Jihad death and murder are so deeply engrained in Arab culture as desirable goals that I highly doubt this will be changed in the near future from within Islamic society.

If you remove religious violence and terrorism as pillars of Arab life, what would remain? Having to face their third-world brutal dictatorships, public corruption, overpopulation, illiteracy, lack of municipal infrastructure, etc. So, I get the impression that Arab society prefers to cling to its Jihad and terrorism as a focus so as not to have to put in the blood, sweat and tears needed to move itself into the 21st century.

This is why the only solution I see is to make the price of terrorism so high that it finally becomes undesirable. Israel has been taking good first steps in demolishing the family homes of the Palestinian mass murderers and already, there have been cases of Palestinians deciding against suicide missions for fear of their family home being lost.

Maybe upping the price of terrorism till it becomes unbearable is the solution needed in the short term to deal with this generation of Arabs.

The next generation of Arabs may be able to catch up with the 21st century and then the mutual hatred will disappear.

[Moon]

Originally posted by Mohoc

this is true. but you can't stop the violence by one side and then expect the other side to stop a month later. Society could not accept that. Therefore the circle starts again. If we can break the circle of violence, be it terrorism or "Israeli self-defense", the we can start meaningful negotiations. With meanningful negotiation I don't mean that Israel puts down a list of stuff in front of the Paletinians and make them begg for food, money and land. Hmm... Why do I get the feeling you are contradicting yourself? Anyway, I'll just pick the sentence I left in bold.

That's false. This is a war with two sides. One side started it and the other is defending itself. If the side which is defending itself ceases its fire, violence will continue. If the side which started the war ceases its fire, violence will not continue. Therefore, the solution involves solely one side. That side will have to cease its fire or forced to cease its fire in order to end the war and thus establish peace.

The side which started the war had its reasons, true, but from the point that it uses force to validate its reasons, its reasons no longer are legitimate (or at least fully legitimate) as there were ongoing negotiations (and its achievments) before this war started.

War, uprising, Intifada... it's all a question of semantics.

So, let's see who's defending itself and who's attacking, shall we?...

[elke]

Originally posted by Mohoc


...With meanningful negotiation I don't mean that Israel puts down a list of stuff in front of the Paletinians and make them begg for food, money and land.

And what do you mean?

[pcful]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by danholo
[B]On many threads other sides blame the other side for "not wanting peace".
Well I'm on the pro-Israel side and I say it's the Jews that want peace. Why?

When Palestinians want peace they will stand up and kick the thugs and criminals in their midst who kill their own innocent mothers and civilians.

In America we have religious groups who indoctrinate/brainwash their children into believing what ever justifies their purposes. However our system of separating religion and government is one of the reasons why we have survived as well as we have. In our public schools religion can not be taught, they leave that up to the parents. Religion is just man's interpretation of what he thinks God is/wants. Anytime man is involved religions get varied. We've got horrible stories of Religous zealots running amok, like David Koresh at Waco, Texas and Jim Jones in Gianna. These people are evil because they use religion to get power and authority over men for selfish reasons and all in the name of God or Allah. We must speak up for the innocent people who are victims of this deceit.

[Mediocrates]

September 5, 2002

Dear Member and Friend,

The past year has been a very difficult one for the People of Israel. Many families have suffered losses of their loved ones at the hands of heartless terrorists. Many children have been left without parents, and in some instances, children have been deliberately targeted and murdered by Arabs. In this context, it requires a great deal of fortitude to face the coming year with any degree of confidence.

Our organization has been in the forefront of those demanding the security and safety they were promised in the last election by Prime Minister Sharon. Unfortunately, by adopting a path of a “unity government", Sharon has gone along with Labor’s policy of restraint. However, Labor has had this policy of restraint because it is dependent on Arab votes in order to return to power. Notwithstanding, the welfare and concern must be what is good for the welfare of the Jewish People and the continued existence of a vibrant Jewish State..In this regard, Sharon,has failed, until now, to properly respond to the violence and terrorism of the Arabs.

It is appropriate, at this time of year, that you lend us your financial support to help us carry out our work. We represent the views of the majority of the Jewish People in this Land and in the Diaspora, are completely dedicated to work in your behalf. When you send us your donation, you insure the continuance of our efforts.

May the Lord watch over you and your family in the coming year, and may you be blessed with good health and long life as a reward for your faith and support.

Faithfully,

Ruth and Nadia Matar
=============================================
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[Simon]

i think thats a bit harsh, and very narrow minded. u cant speak for everyone.


And I think you've got your head buried in the sand, ostrich-like. The fact that most if not all muslims hate jews and would love to slaughter them is narrow-minded. Bringing this hate to fore and saying so is not. A muslim, who correctly follows islam, cannot but hate jews, hindus etc.


We hindus have discovered that after seeing piles of millions of hindu skulls over the past millenia. So cut the ****...