View Full Version : hypothetical question
victot
08-04-2002, 04:54 AM
i'm just wondering,
if hypothetically, you could know for a fact that by israel's going back to its 1967 borders, giving away the west bank, gaza, golan heights, shares control of jerusalem, but DOES NOT accept back palestinian refugees, how many people would want such a deal?... if you knew for a fact that after israel gives away this territory, the palestinians and the arab countries would definately be at peace with israel, how many of you would want israel to make these concessions?
this is sort of the solution i hope for, in all practicallity.
I think that ultimately, eventually, this is exactly what will be. Moreover, everybody else does too: Bush, Sharon, majority of the Israelis and I would venture to say, majority of the Palestinians too! It boggles the mind that these idiots in Palestinian leadership still haven't figured out that nothing will get them any more than that!
Mediocrates
08-04-2002, 06:15 AM
It's possible but the overloading conditions might prohibit it. We all understand that it's not simply about land. So what else would they demand:
money, air traffic rights, water rights, exclusive interconnection between Gaza and WB, and of course no Jews.
ComfortablyNumb
08-04-2002, 06:15 AM
I would add one condition to that... and take it.
The condition would be that if there is a SINGLE terrorist attack in Israel, it will be considered and accepted by UN as an act of war by the origin country.
Kapiti
08-04-2002, 06:39 AM
Victot, I think I have been just in the last day banned from this forum under another name because of perceived hostility to the pro-israel cause. (either that or some screw up). I also raised a similiar hypthothetical which was greeted with scorn and really in my opinion received only one genuine answer. I am very pleased to see that your question is being taken more seriously than mine was.
In any event I agree with your position completly. I always had in mind that if the Jewish settlers left in tact their dwellings it could be seen as compensation for the refugees who lost their right of return to Israel.
Comfortablynumb, my assessment of your postings is also that you are very very pro Israel. I think however that your condition is reasonable. It may be hard to verify which is the country of origin but evidentiary matters aside I agree with you.
Elke, I cannot believe that you have made the posting you have. I am stunned that you would agree to this. I had thought for sure that you would not accept this sort of peace agreement. I don't think I agree with your comments about the Palestinian leadership. The word Israeli could be substituted for Palestinian in my opinion because Sharon although possibly privately accepting what you say is certainly not publically accepting it. His deeds even less so. Perhaps your comments are valid for both.
Mediocrates. I am not saying that I would agree with this or that it was fair but if there was no money paid, no air traffic rights over either country ( is this what you want), reasonable access to water by all parties, no exclusive interconnection between Gaza
and WB and Jews allowed, would you change your possibly to at least a probably.
I hope this thread thrives.
Originally posted by Kapiti
Elke, I cannot believe that you have made the posting you have. I am stunned that you would agree to this. I had thought for sure that you would not accept this sort of peace agreement. I don't think I agree with your comments about the Palestinian leadership
That's because you obviously don't understand what you are reading. Re-read my posts, and it should become fairly obvious that I am a pragmatic person.
By the way, your trust in Arafat etal is touching really, but completely misplaced, as he has demonstrated time and time again.
Teacake
08-04-2002, 07:21 AM
I would have said yes 2 years ago. Today I say, anyone roaming the streets hidden under arabic KKK garb and/or with semiautomaic weapons or guns of any sort be shot on the spot, every member of hamas, hizbula, etc, shot on the spot. That the land where water is, not up for negociation, that the UN and all other arab nations who have financed this reign of terror made to pay Israel billions in damages then, in 5 years time there hasn't been even one incident of violence, the west bank only is theirs.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/media/slideshowimages/slide_1.html
Mediocrates
08-04-2002, 08:48 AM
Mediocrates. I am not saying that I would agree with this or that it was fair but if there was no money paid, no air traffic rights over either country ( is this what you want), reasonable access to water by all parties, no exclusive interconnection between Gaza
and WB and Jews allowed, would you change your possibly to at least a probably.
Therein is the rub. I don't believe accepting or not accepting those conditions are up to Israel. I believe that it would have to be up to the Palistinians to accept those terms and the process to that lead to those goals would have to be coterminus. That is, there could be no "This year it's Jews in Samaria but we'll leave the issue of water rights open". All that does is provide an endless series of exits from negotiation at every step.
It is also imperative to think very hard about the northern borders. If the Syrians see the Palistinians from getting something then what is to stop them from trying to grab Golan? What is to stop Hezbollah, ah I mean Southern Lebanon from attempting a land grab there? In fact what is to stop Egypt and Jordan from establishing forward bases in Gaza and WB? The WB is still only a few Km from Tel Aviv and an armed WB has missile coverage over the entirety of Israel. These are facts.
Theoretically I suppose the Palistinians will in a post Arafat world eventually accept what you describe, more or less. I DO believe that the partition of Jerusalem will always be problematic. We could look on it as a Berlin and plan for a very long partition but the resolution of it can never be to tear down those walls. Nor does the UN have any credibility with the Israelis to create some kind of open city. Rightfully so. We always forget the other two groups who have a stake there: Christian groups (including Copts and Eastern Orthodox) as well as the Armenians.
Kapiti
08-09-2002, 05:29 AM
Mediocrates
Settling it all at once is more difficult but I agree puts the pressure on all parties to address it finally and immediatetly. Not sure I agree with you but also not sure I disagree with you.
The first presumption was that the Golan went back to Syria and I believe any lasting real peace must include this part to it.
With weapons what they are these days the distance of the WB, Gaza and Golan is not going to make that much difference. If some one has the inclination to attack, Israel will be threatened either way. The point of the exercise is that hopefully none of the region in a lasting settlement will have the inclination.
An international city is easy. The more difficult thing is to find enforcers who are acceptable to all. I think however other issues are more difficult than this.
You are right the other religious groups are not often mentioned in the resolution of this area. I think in the end however they are unlikely to stand in the way of a settlement of the real warring parties.
Mediocrates
08-09-2002, 05:56 AM
That's a bit of rationalization. Let's give whatever land whomever asks back to them because 'it really doesn't matter anyway'. Even if you buy into the land for peace line it doesn't mean there are NO limits to it. It doesn't mean that there is no longer any notion of a country called Israel 'just because modern weapons make borders meaningless' in your eyes. I used to live in a place targeted by Soviet nukes, so I guess we should have given it over to them and flown the Hammer & Sickle flag.
And you really can't have an international city be part of a country. No one will accept that. The Vatican is the Vatican because it is not the capital of Italy. But with Jerusalem the largest city in Israel with over 700,000 people in the greater metro area you simply can't say - "You people really live nowhere you are people of the world". That is a copout that the Palestinians would use to make it a Palestinian city. On the next day they would annex it and the whole world would do nothing. We all know this.
It's infuriating to hear the standard line of "we can't demand anything of the Arab countries because it will piss them off and they might want to hurt us."
Adversary2Arabs
08-09-2002, 08:31 PM
The sad fact is that elke is right when (s)he says that Israel will probably give up all of those lands, except maybe for Jerusalem. I only believe that we will lose these lands because of Israels weak and image-concious leaders. If Israels leaders weren't so afraid of people like the UN and more particularly Kofi Annan, President Bush, the EU, and other similar world leaders, then Israel would say "screw what they want, we need to do what we need to do to save our own lives" which would then lead Israel to expel the Arabs from Israel OR less severe would be to not grant gentiles citizenship under any circumstances. (If it were up to me I would add, intermarriage has a penalty determined by Torah, which is death). I can't wait to hear all the people yell at me now! :)
I am David
08-09-2002, 09:57 PM
I say expel the Arabs, why the F*** do they need to live in Isael of all places? At least 5 Arab countries waiting for them and they have to live in Israel, the one and only state of the Jews, what the F*** is that? It's kinda like they are just doing it to be s, because otherwise it's pointless. And they complain they don't get treated right in Israel. What dooshbags.
L@mplighterM
08-09-2002, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
The sad fact is that elke is right when (s)he says that Israel will probably give up all of those lands, except maybe for Jerusalem. I only believe that we will lose these lands because of Israels weak and image-concious leaders. If Israels leaders weren't so afraid of people like the UN and more particularly Kofi Annan, President Bush, the EU, and other similar world leaders, then Israel would say "screw what they want, we need to do what we need to do to save our own lives" which would then lead Israel to expel the Arabs from Israel OR less severe would be to not grant gentiles citizenship under any circumstances. (If it were up to me I would add, intermarriage has a penalty determined by Torah, which is death). I can't wait to hear all the people yell at me now! :)
If it was up to me people that post on the Sabbath (Shabbat) should be put to death. If you?re in Florida and you make a post on 08-10-2002 at 04:31 AM GMT aren?t you violating the Sabbath?
victot
08-10-2002, 04:27 AM
If it was up to me people that post on the Sabbath (Shabbat) should be put to death. If you?re in Florida and you make a post on 08-10-2002 at 04:31 AM GMT aren?t you violating the Sabbath?
:eek:
heheh
Adversary2Arabs
08-10-2002, 08:48 AM
First of all, I'm conservative and second of all I'm working on becoming more religious...my family is very very reformed. I'm 16 years old, and it would be a very big burden on my family if all of a sudden I become very orthodox overnight...would'nt it? The few rabbis I have talked to say that it would be a burden, so I'm gradually becoming orthodox if that makes sence. And yes I feel guilty about violating the Sabbath everytime I turn on a light, etc. All I do on Sabbath is computer related things that are positive, even though it still is a transgression. Please give me a break...
----------------------
Anyway, L@amplighter....it's still Shabbat all over the U.S. when I posted....so wouldn't you be put to death also? Or am I missing something?
Originally posted by L@mplighterM
If it was up to me people that post on the Sabbath (Shabbat) should be put to death. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
If it was up to me, you would enjoy an extended psychiatric treatment.
victot
08-10-2002, 10:41 AM
First of all, I'm conservative and second of all I'm working on becoming more religious...my family is very very reformed. I'm 16 years old, and it would be a very big burden on my family if all of a sudden I become very orthodox overnight...would'nt it?
Adversary2Arabs,
yeah, i'm in the same boat i guess. if i knew for a fact that g-d existed, particularly the one in the jewish bible, i'd become about the most orthodox person alive...
but i don't know if g-d exists, so i dunno how religeous i should be...
the part that would make me wanna become religeous, or at least go out of my way to follow some or most of the laws of the torah, is because i'm proud to be jewish. i really admire the religeous jews, they strengthen our people, so if you are working on becoming religeous, stay strong, it's good for us.
(i think l@mplighter was kidding)
L@mplighterM
08-10-2002, 11:05 AM
Well you know it’s possible that my parents lied to me and therefore I haven’t any Jewish blood running through my veins. I could be a foundling or perhaps the stork dropped me off on their doorstep.
Whatever the case I’m an atheist and I hold the opinion that people are people and I don’t feel special. You wont find me heaving stones at someone because they married someone that wasn’t suitable to some religious law that came into being 1000’s of years ago.
If I came across a situation where someone was about to be to stoned to death because they had married outside their faith I would shoot (If I was armed) the first one that picked up a stone and I couldn’t care less who he/she was.
Party time!
L@mplighterM
08-10-2002, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Vic
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
If it was up to me, you would enjoy an extended psychiatric treatment.
That's really funny I guess some people don't know what sarcasm is.
danholo
08-10-2002, 02:25 PM
Adversary2Arabs:
"it would be a very big burden on my family if all of a sudden I become very orthodox overnight...would'nt it?
I have the very same thing bothering me too. But It's a little different. I wouldn't feel comfortable abiding by the Torah, where I live. And if I would, I'd miss out a lot and I'd be alone in my quest.
If I'd move to a more Jewish area, i.e. New York or Israel I'd probably try best to be Orthodox. It's just my family isn't that Orthodox. My father for example is very knowleadgeanble in Jewish filosofy, thinking and a little Torah. Before he observed everything but now he has stopped keeping Shabbat. He decided to give it up because none of my family was and he didn't feel comfortable with it. In my younger days I wasn't that religious, because I didn't know much about Judaism.
Now I'm starting to respect my religion even more everyday and started to feel Israel much closer in my heart and our return there.
Maybe older when I come more independent I'll start becoming very Orthodox and would like to learn Torah and Talmud Torah.
"And yes I feel guilty about violating the Sabbath everytime I turn on a light, etc.
Me too. And every time I go out to McDonald's of course.
I find it keeping kosher extremely difficult. I couldn't eat anywhere but at home and some kosher homes, but there are very little here that keep kosher.
Adversary2Arabs
08-10-2002, 04:49 PM
I have the same problem with kosher, because the only way I can get kosher food easily would be to import it. At the grocery store they only have a few kosher items, but not many. There isn't much need for them because there isn't even an Orthodx synogogue in my city(Tampa,FL). And Lamplighter, I didn't realize you were being sarcastic because, well, I can't hear your tone through a computer, and didn't seem sarcastic...
Mediocrates
08-10-2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by danholo
Adversary2Arabs:
"it would be a very big burden on my family if all of a sudden I become very orthodox overnight...would'nt it?
I have the very same thing bothering me too. But It's a little different. I wouldn't feel comfortable abiding by the Torah, where I live. And if I would, I'd miss out a lot and I'd be alone in my quest.
If I'd move to a more Jewish area, i.e. New York or Israel I'd probably try best to be Orthodox. It's just my family isn't that Orthodox. My father for example is very knowleadgeanble in Jewish filosofy, thinking and a little Torah. Before he observed everything but now he has stopped keeping Shabbat. He decided to give it up because none of my family was and he didn't feel comfortable with it. In my younger days I wasn't that religious, because I didn't know much about Judaism.
Now I'm starting to respect my religion even more everyday and started to feel Israel much closer in my heart and our return there.
Maybe older when I come more independent I'll start becoming very Orthodox and would like to learn Torah and Talmud Torah.
"And yes I feel guilty about violating the Sabbath everytime I turn on a light, etc.
Me too. And every time I go out to McDonald's of course.
I find it keeping kosher extremely difficult. I couldn't eat anywhere but at home and some kosher homes, but there are very little here that keep kosher.
Observing the 613 mitzvoth is not about shame or guilt. It is about trying to measure up. If some days you fail with a few of them it's only because of your sense of ethics and that makes at least one you're already following.
Adversary2Arabs
08-10-2002, 09:07 PM
:) Thank you.
sharonbn
08-11-2002, 04:13 AM
after reading this thread, I feel compelled to say that this hostility in cover of sarcasm makes me sick. Why is this needed?
If one makes a joke, that's OK and acceptable and we can move along. But then the whoe discussion shifts from the thread's main issue into personal clashes.
I'm the worst Jew you can imagine in religious terms. I never go to synagogue, I don't believe in God, I don't keep any mitzvah none-whatsoever. nevertheless, I consider myself a proud Israeli Zionist Jew by virute of my ethnic identity.
Now, does anyone here wishes my death/illness/imprsionment?
To the subject in hand:
I would like to say to victot I was in holding your pov in 2000. Since then, the Intifadah made me a confused man. I mean, in Camp David, Israel made suggestions that were close to your hypothetical question. I believe Camp David and Taba after wards were a historical checkpoint in time were the Israeli Arab conflict could actually IN REAL LIFE be resolved.
Yasser Arafat choose to miss this historical opportunity.
I am confused becasue I don't know what to expet from the Palestinians anymore. These people do not posses the same mentality and rational thinking of civilized society. Their leader, Yasser Arafat, has no sense of responsibility to better the lives of his people. He follows some fantasy in his head. I believe Yasser Arafat has played a game of double face since 1993, saying one thing to Israeli and America, all the while funding terrorist groups. He never intended Camp David to succeed . It didn't matter to him what Israel will propose, he simply decided he wants Israelis and his people to sufer for the cause.
I lost faith and trust in Arafat for good.
I doubt if we will live to see another such an opportunity being realized. Certainly not in the next decade and after that..... not even God knows.
I do believe that the final solution, IF and when it is reached, will be similar to Camp David and Taba proposals simply because there is no other realistic alternative
Israel, IMO, can only sit, absorb and wait until the Palestinian people will come to the point of maturity and rational that Israel stands in now. I don't know when it will happen or how many more lives it will take for then to open their eyes.
Originally posted by sharonbn
after reading this thread, I feel compelled to say that this hostility in cover of sarcasm makes me sick. Why is this needed?
If one makes a joke, that's OK and acceptable and we can move along. But then the whoe discussion shifts from the thread's main issue into personal clashes.
I'm the worst Jew you can imagine in religious terms. I never go to synagogue, I don't believe in God, I don't keep any mitzvah none-whatsoever. nevertheless, I consider myself a proud Israeli Zionist Jew by virute of my ethnic identity.
Now, does anyone here wishes my death/illness/imprsionment?Sorry for disrupting the thread. Israel must be a nice place for a Jew to live among Jews, but elsewhere militant zealotry is a very real problem. Try an Orthodox-dominated Jewish community in my part of the world not only for similar statements (ever heard the "assimilation equals Holocaust" punchline?) but also for real threats, intimidations and extortions. This is why I feel sick when I read such "jokes": to me they are none.
It is very painful to see the demise of hope for better future in many Israelis at this time. I understand and empathize with this pov, but it seems that the one thing we cannot afford to do is lose hope.
We are in this together, the Diaspora and the Israelis, so please don't take this wrong. I know it's relatively easy for me to talk, from a safe distance, about hope. But by the same token, this distance also affords a good view of the whole forest, instead of looking at the trees.
There are some reasons for cautious optimism right now. The Arab Summit has come out with a blueprint for possible future improvement in the situation. Whatever their nefarious reasons for this resolution, this piece of paper beats the heck out of any other pieces of paper this esteemed body has put forth to date. Arafat etal are no longer completely trusted by their constituency. Some are beginning to blame him as well for their desperation. Granted, as of now there don't seem to be any sane and cogent voices loud enough to hear from the outside, but this is a beginning.
It's a long, hard road ahead, no question about it. That's why we can't afford to succumb to the depression and hopelessness. We must keep plugging at it, and in order to do so the faith in the positive outcome has to be strong and unwavering.
victot
08-12-2002, 12:00 PM
Sorry for disrupting the thread. Israel must be a nice place for a Jew to live among Jews, but elsewhere militant zealotry is a very real problem. Try an Orthodox-dominated Jewish community in my part of the world not only for similar statements (ever heard the "assimilation equals Holocaust" punchline?) but also for real threats, intimidations and extortions. This is why I feel sick when I read such "jokes": to me they are none.
vic,
could you eleborate more?
Mediocrates
08-12-2002, 12:05 PM
I too am apikorsim (heathen bastard) to the Satmars I once lived near. OK.
Originally posted by victot
vic,
could you eleborate more? Not really. It's off-topic here. Or a subject for private discussions. My point was that Jews are as much obliged to display a modicum of tolerance among each other as anyone else.
Balancing 613 Mitzvot and 7 Laws of Noah, I always thought a Jew had more chances of committing a sin... :rolleyes:
Let's agree on a minimum ;)
Mediocrates
08-12-2002, 04:47 PM
only some commandments are 'you shall'. some are 'shall not' and others are 'don't passively ignore..'
Adversary2Arabs
08-17-2002, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
(If it were up to me I would add, intermarriage has a penalty determined by Torah, which is death).
Just want to clarify that when I said this I meant that to me, intermarriage is worse than murder. Why? Because instead of killing someone, you are helping to kill the Jewish People. Intermarriage is a silent holocaust, which too many people are still blind to.
Adversary2Arabs, you may be right, but your choice of words is wrong, very wrong.
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
quote:
-----------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
(If it were up to me I would add, intermarriage has a penalty determined by Torah, which is death).
-----------------------------------------------
Just want to clarify that when I said this I meant that to me, intermarriage is worse than murder. Why? Because instead of killing someone, you are helping to kill the Jewish People. Intermarriage is a silent holocaust, which too many people are still blind to. Judaism also teaches the sanctity of human life, ever heard of it? What you (and, alas, not only you) are saying amounts to "a good renegade Jew is a dead renegade Jew".
Actually intermarriage tends to enlarge the overall number of Jews.
walesdave
08-17-2002, 03:26 PM
Adversary2Arabs, what about a Goy husband and a Jewish wife? Plenty of little jewish babies come out of that intermariage (well, just one so far!). Do I deserve the intermariage death penalty, or is it just for jewish guys who marry christian women?
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by walesdave
Adversary2Arabs, what about a Goy husband and a Jewish wife? Plenty of little jewish babies come out of that intermariage (well, just one so far!). Do I deserve the intermariage death penalty, or is it just for jewish guys who marry christian women?
No, the children who have done nothing wrong don't deserve anything harmful upon them. Just their Jewish parent who has committed the transgression. It's not like I'm very religious anyway, which I'm ahsamed of, but with intermarriage, as easily seen in the US, there are approximately 6 million Jewish people by birth of their mother and raising OR by choice ( converted into Judaism). Now, heres the problem. About 1.5million of those 6 million are practicing a religion that is not Judaism, OR don't consider themselves Jewish at all. That number is even BIGGER when you conisder the fact that the United States has the worlds largest concentration of Jews. Intermarriage is brought to us by Reform Judaism, not as much by Conservative Judaism. Refrom Judaism accepts intermarriage, and then considers the father able to pass on his "Jewishness", when only the mother is allowed to.
Everyone, think about it! What things are causing the Jewish people to fall apart like an old shirt? Intermarriage, but equally if not less than assimilation. If these two were gone, what would we have? A much much stronger and united Jewish People. We would obviously still have our own disputes, but we would still be one.
I'm definately open to some criticism...
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Vic
Actually intermarriage tends to enlarge the overall number of Jews.
This is only true when the mother is Jewish. The father connot pass down Jewish heritage as Reform Judaism likes to think. More on that note, "changing the definition of Jew doesn't make more people Jewish."(Someone from these boards wrote that, and I remembered it somehow :) )
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by Moon
Adversary2Arabs, you may be right, but your choice of words is wrong, very wrong.
It may have been a bad choice of words. I tried to word it so it would show the seriousness of it.
Why did you think it was worded badly?
As a mother of 3 Jewish children, with a non-Jewish father, I rather take offence at the hypothetical threats to my life.
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by elke
As a mother of 3 Jewish children, with a non-Jewish father, I rather take offence at the hypothetical threats to my life.
They are just that - hypothetical. I in no way support murder of anyone. But the fact still remains that the Jewish people become weaker with every intermarriage and every act of assimilation. Your children may marry someone Jewish, but the one(s) who don't will then even more be less Jewish - NOT in a religious sence necessarily, but for sure in a ethnic sence.
And as a note to everyone: Don't take anything I say personal, please, even if it seems so. I'm not here to offend anyone.
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
They are just that - hypothetical. I in no way support murder of anyone. But the fact still remains that the Jewish people become weaker with every intermarriage and every act of assimilation. Your children may marry someone Jewish, but the one(s) who don't will then even more be less Jewish - NOT in a religious sence necessarily, but for sure in a ethnic sence.
And as a note to everyone: Don't take anything I say personal, please, even if it seems so. I'm not here to offend anyone.
I know the threats are hypothetical. I know that it all depends on what my children do when they grow up. All I can say, just like any Jewish parent, is that I hope they have a good spouse (2 wives, 1 husband please ;)) and that they will end up continuing this 3500 year old saga of the Jewish people.
I agree that assimilation is a foe. Intermarriage is a danger because it can lead to assimilation. However, it can also lead to the assimilation of the non-Jewish spouse - or at least, the children, - into the Jewish culture too!
Originally posted by elke
However, it can also lead to the assimilation of the non-Jewish spouse - or at least, the children, - into the Jewish culture too! As it more often than not does :)
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
The father connot pass down Jewish heritage as Reform Judaism likes to think I strongly support the Reformist position on this. Just curious - does this put me on The A2A Hypothetical Death Penalty List too?
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by elke
I know the threats are hypothetical. I know that it all depends on what my children do when they grow up. All I can say, just like any Jewish parent, is that I hope they have a good spouse (2 wives, 1 husband please ;)) and that they will end up continuing this 3500 year old saga of the Jewish people.
I agree that assimilation is a foe. Intermarriage is a danger because it can lead to assimilation. However, it can also lead to the assimilation of the non-Jewish spouse - or at least, the children, - into the Jewish culture too!
Once again, elke you have rediected my feeling towards a subject.
Oh, and one more thing: the intermarriage is more likely to be successful and lead to assimilation into the Jewish fold when the Jewish community at large is accepting of the non-Jewish spouse and the couple's children.
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by Vic
As it more often than not does :)
I strongly support the Reformist position on this. Just curious - does this put me on The A2A Hypothetical Death Penalty List too?
No, because as I have CLEARLY stated i nthe past - I do not believe anyone should be killed or harmed for what they believe. If it is truly what they believe. And there is no hypothetical death penatly list. Why? I'm not in any position to implement it. Why? I first would have to be a legal adult, wouldn't I? :)
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
Once again, elke you have rediected my feeling towards a subject.
What do you mean? I don't understand...
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by elke
What do you mean? I don't understand...
I now see how you are correct when you say that assimilation works in both directions. Jews outward and gentiles inward. I never really thought of that. Therefore by you showing me this, I know have a better view, which is from your perspective.
Previously, you did the same thing in another post, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was good as well. :)
Thank you, A2A - to me, this is one of the purposes of this Forum. We all learn from the others' experience. :) :cool:
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by elke
Thank you, A2A - to me, this is one of the purposes of this Forum. We all learn from the others' experience. :) :cool:
Well my expierences are very limited. I'm 16 years old and haven't lived long enough to expierece the world.
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
Well my expierences are very limited. I'm 16 years old and haven't lived long enough to expiereces the world.
Awesome, A2A! It's great to see you here! You are very eloquent, by the way.
My eldest son is 14 - I think you two would make good friends... :)
Adversary2Arabs
08-18-2002, 07:31 AM
:) Thank you very much. It means a lot to me.
Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
It may have been a bad choice of words. I tried to word it so it would show the seriousness of it.
Why did you think it was worded badly? Ok, maybe it's not worded badly, it just tickled me in a bad sense. You see, accordingly to you, hypotheticaly I wouldn't exist and neither my parents would... and perhaps even my grandparents. But it's ok, you now see that assimilation works on both directions. ;)
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