Krav Maga

[Moon]

One night I was watching a documentary about safety on aeroports and commercial airplanes. It was produced after 9-11 and focused on terrorism.

Many El-Al personel was interviewed and one mentioned a martial art teached to many security agents: Krav Maga. He defined it as a self defense technic to win a fight without using arms (guns, knifes, whatever).

I searched for it on google and found this site: International Krav Maga Federation (Imi system) (http://www.krav-maga.com). It has branches (http://krav-maga.com/trainers.htm) in many countries including USA, some European countries and, of course, Israel. I think it is part of the IDF's curriculum, but it's also a technic for civilians.

If you can't avoid a physical confrontation, which is the best solution, I say break some anti-semitic legs!

[christian]

Yes. Kraga Maga looks like mixture of wrestling and Karate to me.

I do like to sign up for the tourist trip for the purpose of tourism in Israel. :)

[christian]

By the way, is there any chinese martial arts school in Israel?

If not, I can teach people chi kung for development of health, such as prevention of cancer, etc..While I am in vacation.

[christian]

Something I can give back to jewish community

[Moon]

Originally posted by christian
By the way, is there any chinese martial arts school in Israel?Good point!

Google Search: martial art israel (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=martial+art+israel) Google rocks! :D

World Kobudo Federation-ISRAEL (http://www.wkf-israel.org/mainen.asp)
Established in 1998 , WKF-ISRAEL today is a leading Martial Arts organization in Israel. WKF-ISRAEL main styles is: Daiou-Ryu Jiu-Jitsu,Taekwondo,Pankration,Judo,Kempo-Jitsu,Kung-Fu,Sambo,Karate and Nunchaku-Do.Anything familiar?

[victot]

i saw a show on the learning channel once called the top 10 martial art forms of all time, krav maga was ranked number 7. I believe it was the only one whose origins weren't oriental.

fbi agents learn krav maga, it has a great combination of being relatively easy to learn, part of it specificly deals with dissarming enemies weapons, and it's as quick as anything in incapacitating your opponent. the show i saw about it said it was the most no-nonsense form of martial arts.
(it was invented by a hungarian jew at around the time of the war of independance, which he fought in.)

[Simon]

What is the literal translation of Krav Maga??

[alexbmn]

" contact combat"? Anyway the thing with Krav Maga is that isnt not an "art".Its a combat system.There are no rules or limitations,everything is legal. It was developed by people who had real life experience in the field.

[Deni al-Amriki]

Didn't a Krav Maga specialist enter one of these "Ultimate Fighting" no-holds-barred fighting competitions and not fare so well? There is indeed a great amount of mythology in the martial arts, especially with these combat miltary-oriented styles...

Anyway, I'm generally ignorant of Krav Maga, but I do know that other Martial Arts are practiced in Israel. There was a famous Kickboxing and Karate champion from Israel named Moti Horenshtain, he fought in various tornaments, and did real good (though I think I saw him loose twice in the UFC). He was a pretty good Karate and Kickboxing guy. His record in No holds barred fighting was not so okay, and can be seen here:

http://sherdog.com/fightfinder/displayfighter.cfm?fighterid=139

But to be fair, four of his five losses came against big Wrestlers, two of them being world class.

I also once knew a very talented Judo Player from israel, so Martial Arts is definitely there.

[christian]

Although, I am not a expert in Martial arts. I find many westerner are misunderstand the meaning of martial arts.

Kraga Marv is a good martial arts, but the purpose of Kraga Marv is to subdue your opponents. Which in this case, a practitioner is causing so much pain to the opponents. Eventually, he will forsake the will to fight.

Oriential martial arts is a different aiming. The purpose of oriental martial arts is to "kill". " Kill at one strike."

Unfortunately, in these days,many oriental practitioner can't fully express their destructiveness, due to guns and tanks.

No one has that destructiveness anymore. Recently, only four people in the earth can demonstrate these kind of destruction. Eg, Bruce Lee, Donnie Yen, fok yuen ken(fist of fury),etc.

In the near future, people can only practice forms without destruction.

thanks,
a little out of topic in israeli forum.

[danholo]

The purpose of Krav Maga is to neutralize the enemy as soon as possible. Killing is one of the neutralization methods. For instance a person comes at you with a knife, you block and if you hit him properly in the nose, he will get killed.

[Barak]

Well, I had a couple of hours in total lessons in Krav Maga. It indeed learns how to opress an enemy, but you also learn a couple of nasty death blows...

[minusthejihad]

I have a friend out here in San Diego who is from Brazil and is a jujitsu champion and instructor who has trained and fought with the best such as the Gracies. Before I even told him that I was a Jew, he mentioned that he had trained all sorts of government agents in fighting including Mossad and Shin Bet agents.

He also knows and teaches Krav Maga and points out that jujitsu (jiu-jitsu) includes most of what is taught in Krav Maga, but it goes further in methodology, and definately in offensive moves, as well as inflicting serious pain and damage or death. However he did point out that Krav Maga was the absolute best fighting form that taught to disarm an opponent who possessed a weapon. So much for the steriotypical "push-over Jew".

I want to learn both, the only problem is, as a kid I tried to learn 4 different martial arts (tank sudo, tykwondo, shotokan, okinawan karate, etc.) and yet none had any "down to basics" moves or practices. They were more like art forms. And unfortunately, I have not met an instructor, including my friend, that is not sado masichistic. I do not look forward to sprained arms and legs, bruises, or concusions just so I can learn to defend myself more thoroughly. Has any Krav Maga student here had a less painful experience?

[Steve]

When I was studying in engineering, a friend of mine was giving Jiu Jitsu lessons, but I only went to a couple because he started doing moves on me and hurting me...

I mean, it is the point of martial arts to hurt, but an expert shouldn't be using an amateur as a dummy...but that's the way the cookie crumbles, as they say.


Originally posted by minusthejihad
I have not met an instructor, including my friend, that is not sado masichistic.

[christian]

The purpose of Krav Maga is to neutralize the enemy as soon as possible. Killing is one of the neutralization methods. For instance a person comes at you with a knife, you block and if you hit him properly in the nose, he will get killed.

Theoretically speaking, it is possible.

In actual reality, it is very difficult. For example, if you are smaller size than your opponents. You can't block his knife jab. His arm is twice bigger than you. His force is 40 g knife jabbing you. It takes you 45 g to block his knife jabbing.

By the way, breaking your opponents nose won't kill him.
It only disllustrate him. It only slows him down. A well trainned terroist can take the hit.

If you are trained in the army. The army teach you to break his neck instead. It really takes him down on the floor at one strike. :D

[christian]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
I have a friend out here in San Diego who is from Brazil and is a jujitsu champion and instructor who has trained and fought with the best such as the Gracies. Before I even told him that I was a Jew, he mentioned that he had trained all sorts of government agents in fighting including Mossad and Shin Bet agents.

He also knows and teaches Krav Maga and points out that jujitsu (jiu-jitsu) includes most of what is taught in Krav Maga, but it goes further in methodology, and definately in offensive moves, as well as inflicting serious pain and damage or death. However he did point out that Krav Maga was the absolute best fighting form that taught to disarm an opponent who possessed a weapon. So much for the steriotypical "push-over Jew".

I want to learn both, the only problem is, as a kid I tried to learn 4 different martial arts (tank sudo, tykwondo, shotokan, okinawan karate, etc.) and yet none had any "down to basics" moves or practices. They were more like art forms. And unfortunately, I have not met an instructor, including my friend, that is not sado masichistic. I do not look forward to sprained arms and legs, bruises, or concusions just so I can learn to defend myself more thoroughly. Has any Krav Maga student here had a less painful experience?

Very true indeed, many good teachers in the oriental arts is pass away. There are only few people in this world can demonstrate the true essence.

The true essence of all martial arts lies not in the form. It lies on movbality, quickness, speed, destructiveness, flexibility.

Bruce Lee is the best representator in this modern age. So far, I don't see anyone in the martial arts film, can demonstrate what he is doing, such as speed and destructiveness.

[christian]

Originally posted by Steve
When I was studying in engineering, a friend of mine was giving Jiu Jitsu lessons, but I only went to a couple because he started doing moves on me and hurting me...

I mean, it is the point of martial arts to hurt, but an expert shouldn't be using an amateur as a dummy...but that's the way the cookie crumbles, as they say.



I guess he wants to show you how good he is..... :D

[christian]

http://www.donnieyen.com/current.htm

check out this guy in movie. He is truely master of masters.


:)

[christian]

http://www.donnieyen.com/articlema1.htm


For me," insists Yen, "the ultimate skill is creative movement. If your foundation is precise and based on traditional skills, then you should work to be able to free-form your movements for any situation." For a jazz master, the practice of free-form, improvised music represents the highest form of music. But the ability to play at this level, demands diligent practice of the basics and an ability and willingness to enter the uncharted zone of creativity.


Yeah, I had a lot of success, but it wasn¡¯t just due to my China training. It was crucial, but it wasn¡¯t the reason why I went from tournament wins to very tough action movies by the time I was nineteen," Yen maintains. "By the time I was eighteen, I was beginning to experiment with other martial art styles and I really got into weight training and hardcore bag training as well. Essentially, I wanted to develop my fa jing so that it was evident in any martial art movement I practiced, regardless of style. (Fa jing is a fundamental traditional Chinese martial art practice that can be defined as a flexible, explosive delivery of focused striking energy while relaxed.) This explosive power is at the core of most martial arts - especially Chinese styles."

Fa jing is the hallmark of Donnie Yen the actor, film maker, and martial artist. Yen points out that fa jing at its core, is not necessarily unique to Chinese martial art masters. "Just take a look at Mike Tyson at his best. He always remained relaxed until the last moment. His blows were always extremely explosive and really focused. They were powered from a solid base of strong, kung fu-like legs, and guided by his waist. Almost pure Kung Fu in its essence." He recalls, "When I was a child I spent years undergoing heavy leg and waist training from my mother. With that athletic foundation I developed all of my tools so that I would be able to handle the physical demands of explosive energy. Let me tell you, it really prepared me for my first film under the Hong Kong director Yuen Wo Ping, who is a perfectionist."

[christian]

Note:

The article really summarize the essence of Oriental martial arts.

It is not hard core energy building from lifting weight. It is the explosive energy, released by your entire body.

Most martial arts practice hard core energy punch. It is not an explosive energy.

This includes Kraga Marg. It is not a explosive energy building. It is a hard stiff energy building. Therefore, it is not powerful.

MiKe Tyson demonstrate that kind of explosive energy building. It is nothing new under the sun.

[christian]

http://www.donnieyen.com/articlema1.htm

Donnie Yen¡¯s Five Rules of Martial Arts Mastery

1. Turn your basic movements - regardless of style - into perfect jewels. If you accomplish this, you¡¯ll have a good chance of becoming an advanced practitioner sooner than you may expect. Like good WuShu or even western boxing, extreme basic training is the only real secret for excellence.

2. Train your body athletically. Probably the most lacking aspect of modern practitioners, your overall physical condition, regardless of style - internal or external - is crucial to sustain long periods of often painful training.

3. Emphasize "fa jing" in your techniques. Top Western boxers exhibit fa jing as much as top Asian martial artists. Start with traditional Chinese styles to learn this crucial use of energy.

4. Strive for versatility and a wide exposure to different disciplines. After some years developing a specialty, force yourself to obtain at least intermediate skill in a few other styles completely different from yours.

5. Train for both combat and beauty of movement. Contrary to popular belief, a serious practitioner can achieve excellent fighting ability while looking fantastic. Always remember that top western boxers are as engaging to watch as contemporary WuShu athletes. Don¡¯t be scared of one or the other.

[danholo]

Originally posted by christian


Theoretically speaking, it is possible.

In actual reality, it is very difficult. For example, if you are smaller size than your opponents. You can't block his knife jab. His arm is twice bigger than you. His force is 40 g knife jabbing you. It takes you 45 g to block his knife jabbing.

Yes you can, strength and size do not count. Technique does.
Have you been training KM or are you just speculating?
There are different techniques if your opponent is smaller/bigger than you.



By the way, breaking your opponents nose won't kill him.
It only disllustrate him. It only slows him down. A well trainned terroist can take the hit.

Believe me, if you hit a person in the nose in the correct way, he'll get killed.
I won't get into details, since I don't want to teach how to kill people.

[Barak]

There are also other places where you can kill someone with one blow. It is hard, but it's possible

[Gilgamesh]

There is another thing going in Israel, it's called Hisardut, means survival [skills]. its someting between werstling, boxing and Judo.
It got very famouse about a decade ago, after two arabs jumped with knives up on the wrong teen ager Jew (in the arab prespective) . the boy knew hisardut, as the arabs soon found out... two armed arabs against a teen ager jew... the arabs got arested as soon as they came out of the hospital.

[danholo]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
the arabs got arested as soon as they came out of the hospital.

This is why every Jew anywhere in the world should know some ways of defending himself and others exactly against antisemitic attacks like these. It's not hard and even if you won't ever have to use your "skills" you'll build some self-confidence you never had.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by danholo


This is why every Jew anywhere in the world should know some ways of defending himself and others exactly against antisemitic attacks like these. It's not hard and even if you won't ever have to use your "skills" you'll build some self-confidence you never had.

Jews should be given unlimited defence and protection rights - like allowence of the carrying of automatic weapons, automatic allowal of concealed weapons, any form of weapon, etc. :)