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intenseGaze
10-08-2007, 03:12 PM
The descriptions of the Mutual Bank or Credit Union below are general.

They need to be tweaked to suit Jewish needs and this is a matter for Jews to sit down and discuss to decide how best this can be done.

As you can see, the idea is built upon the principle of free credit - and that is in line with Torah.

The system of banking that we have today in Israel is wholly corrupt. Every time we make use of a commercial bank in Israel we commit an avayrah. We are FORBIDDEN to earn interest on a loan to another Jews. PERIOD. No if. No ands. No buts. No "heterim". Gornisht.

To partake in and support institutions Jewish usury is not less an avayrah than any other. Any Rabbi who tells you otherwise is getting his salary to do so from the establishment. More about that establishment at the end of this post.

Today, most Jews in Israel outside of Me'ah She'arim have to do business with commercial banks. We can, we must, change that. ASAP.

It is incumbent upon us as Jews to establish Mutual Banks based on Mutual Credit. The residents of Me'ah She'arim have such a banking system. I am sure that they would be delighted to instruct us how to implement and run a bank like that.

The bank should be commonly run, should have wholly open books and there should be a Board of Governers who sit for a short period of time, who are elected by the community and are subject to immediate recall if they do not carry out their duties in accordance with Hilkhot Mamonot and common decency.

This system will eventually supplant gemachim. Although people who run gemachim can be very helpful in the establishment of such a Mutual Bank.

No one should have to borrow money from another person. We should all have what we need.

Let's get to the short overview then:


"Mutualists argue that free banking should be taken back by the people to establish systems of free credit. They contend that banks have a monopoly on credit, just as capitalists have a monopoly on land. Banks are essentially creating money by lending out deposits that do not actually belong to them, then charging interest on the difference. Mutualists argue that by establishing a democratically run mutual bank or credit union, it would be possible to issue free credit so that money could be created for the benefit of the participants rather than for the benefit of the bankers.

A credit union is a cooperative financial institution that is owned and controlled by its members. Credit unions differ from banks and other financial institutions in that the members who have accounts in the credit union are the owners of the credit union.

Credit union policies governing interest rates and other matters are set by a volunteer Board of Directors elected by and from the membership itself. Only a member of a credit union may deposit money with the credit union, or borrow money from it. As such, credit unions have historically marketed themselves as providing superior member service and being committed to helping members improve their financial health.

Credit unions may be viewed as non-profit organizations, or alternatively as for-profit enterprises charged with making a profit for their members (who receive any profits earned by the cooperative in the form of dividends paid on savings, which are taxed as ordinary income, or reduced interest rates on loans).

This debate reflects credit unions' unusual organizational structure, which attempts to solve the principal-agent problem by ensuring the owners and the users of the institution are the same people. In any case, credit unions generally cannot accept donations and must be able to prosper in a competitive market economy. "
My dear Brothers and Sisters: There is nothing more revolutionary than to be a true Jew. The heart and Soul of Judaism is revolt against corruption and the mechanisms that are generated from it.

From the day we were commanded to slaughter the sacred cows of Egypt, we were commanded to live a life of perpetual revolt against power of man over man and the idol worship that supports it.

When the State of Israel was declared the rich and politically powerful understood that if Judaism was given true expression that we would create a world-wide revolution.

They were right on correct about that.

So, all the forces of Hell were unleashed against us: they support the Arabs to keep us in a constant state of war; they fluoridate our water so that we will be debilitated; they bankroll an army of "Rabbis" to teach us that which is not Torah and keep us very busy with made-up things to do so that we will not remember the voice we heard in Egypt and at Har Sinai. They keep us in economic straits and worries, they keep us in thrall in a million different ways.

Why have they gone to all that trouble and expense. Because NO ONE is more dangerous to a corrupt system than a real Jew. Nothing works against a real Jew to get him or her to cooperate with corruption - not the carrot and not the stick.


And so, my dear Brothers and Sisters, despite all that has been set against us - real Jews we must be. A real Jewish society we must build. Real solidarity we must return to - the solidarity that we knew when we were a young people.

We have to return to a time when authority was invested in people only on the basis of the love and the wisdom they proved. We have to return to the time of the Judges - the time before a State and a government was set over us. The Judges were known by their communities intimately. Their every character trait was seen by all. If they were not immaculately honest and straight they would not have been respected. Their honor was their only source of power - and that is the only correct source of power.

Read the Book of Sh'mu'el. We were not meant to be ruled by flesh and blood!

Because our society is so sick our Judaism too is sick, paltry and in our hearts we know, sadly, largely contrived. We will only be able to find our way back to the true Torah as we institute mechanisms of righteousness.

Today we turn to HaShem in our poverty, in our fear, in our insecurity, with our broken hearts and broken spirits and broken bodies, after having been traumatized - and we fall victim to the "Rabbis" who are working for the rich and politically powerful to lead us astray.

Would that we would turn to HaShem in our strength and in our love and in our security! Would that we would turn to HaShem in celebration of the bounty we live in!

I saw on Kibbutz that when every material and social need is provided for still there is a feeling that something is lacking. I saw on totally secular Kibbutzim synagogues being built and b'tei midrash being put together and study groups forming.

When we have provided for one another's human needs, when we all live in abundance and in solidarity, when our consciences and our hands are clean and we all earn our livings in dignity and with honor THEN and only then will we be in a position to return to the true Torah.

It is so easy to begin. We form food co-ops and mutual aid projects. We form a mutual bank that provides mutual credit. Soon others will emulate us.

Tzfat is the perfect community to begin this in and the one that needs it the very most.

Let's begin NOW. For I tell you truly, it is we who must usher in the Messianic age.

Doreen

varian
10-08-2007, 07:33 PM
A fresh concept. Below are a few quotes to support your arguments.

" The refusal of King George III to allow the colonies to operate an honest money system, which freed the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators was probably the prime cause of the revolution."

Benjamin Franklin
*************

" I believe that the banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies...
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency...the banks and corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless..."

Thomas Jefferson
*************

"If you want to remain slaves of the bankers and pay for the costs of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control the nation's credit."

Sir Josiah Stamp
************

Does Israel have a privately owned bastard entity like America's "Federal Reserve Bank?" I hope not!!!

bararallu
10-09-2007, 07:18 PM
Does Israel have a privately owned bastard entity like America's "Federal Reserve Bank?" I hope not!!!

Is the FED privately owned?

Israel has a central bank, otherwise how would Israel (or any other state) control monetary policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetary_policy)? It's currency deflation/inflation? It's solvency in the international exchange markets? Replace damaged money?

varian
10-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Yes the "Fed" is a privately owned entity. It is not an official US Federal Government agency. They charge the US (taxpayers) to print basically worthless Federal Reserve notes; AKA the American Dollar.

bararallu
10-10-2007, 03:36 PM
well, Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System) varies on that a bit, what do you think about this:

"The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is an independent federal government agency.[14] The Board of Governors does not receive funding from Congress, and the terms of the seven members of the Board span multiple presidential and congressional terms. Once a member of the Board of Governors is appointed by the president, he or she functions mostly independently. The Board is required to make an annual report of operations to the Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives.[15] The law provides for the removal of a member of the Board by the President "for cause."[16] The Board of Governors is responsible for the formulation of monetary policy. It also supervises and regulates the operations of the Federal Reserve Banks, and US banking system in general."

varian
10-10-2007, 06:00 PM
Did wiki mention what previous positions that the BOG's held? If the Fed chairman changes the interest rate, with or from whom must the chairman consult with or get approval? Do any oversight committees in the US Congress control and dictate what the Fed does? Do any elected officials in the world control the actions of their respective countries central banks? As long as the international banking interests control the issue of any country's currency, they don't care what form of government that a country is under. We print our own currency, but the Fed controls its value on the world market, and how much more of it gets printed. By the way, what is a Federal Reserve Note (legal tender in the US and elsewhere) backed by? If not gold; nor not silver, then what? Isn't Olmert currently being investigated about his role in a prior bank buy-out scheme in Israel? Protracted wars are great wealth builders for "The Banks," and the US just happens to be engaged in one of their favorite "cash cows." (imho).

bararallu
10-10-2007, 06:40 PM
Well, there is no gold standard and hasn't been in quite a while... anywhere. There isnt enough gold in the world to back the currency, inflation amongst other things precludes that.

It seems that the FED, doesn't quite ring true as a "private" business, seems to be a separate branch of government, perhaps for for reasons of politics? separating it from partisanship? much in the way of the Supreme court one can suppose? On that basis, it makes some sense. Whether or not it plays well with the US constitution is a very different story though. Has it been challenged on constitutional grounds? And this is the 3rd attempt at a central bank in US history, correct?

The flip side is having the same people [potentially the economically uninitiated] who control fiscal policy trying to effect monetary policy. Thats a lot of room to have large scale myopia, IMHO, if not conflict of interest in some cases.

varian
10-10-2007, 07:13 PM
It just seems like many of the same old cronies get shuffled around a circuit of similar jobs; and their "best interest" is not the same as that of the citizens of the USA. I just feel that there is something more sinister involved.

bararallu
10-10-2007, 08:39 PM
Politics is a sinister business ;). "They say" it's the worlds 2nd oldest profession and rather closely related to the 1st. Now about the economists... :D

intenseGaze
10-15-2007, 03:07 PM
Is the FED privately owned?

Irwin Schiff, a nice Jewish Zayde who is sitting in a Federal prison under conditions worse than those afforded to rapists and murderers because of this: http://tinyurl.com/ysns5s

said: "The Federal Bank is as federal as Federal Express."

intenseGaze
10-15-2007, 03:20 PM
Your response to my writings is like a breath of fresh air.

Most people just reject it out-of-hand.

I can add these to your list of quotes:

First:

"I have never had a feeling politically that did not spring from the sentiments embodied in the Declaration of Independence." Abraham Lincoln
Source: February 22, 1861 - Address in Independence Hall

Then later that year he said:

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abraham Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.
Source: http://tinyurl.com/39bt9h

Most Americans today have no idea how radical some of the Founding Fathers were and how long that spirit remained alive in the US.

varian
10-15-2007, 05:40 PM
There is a short statement by Mr. Schiff in the trailer below at about the 6:45 mark. The quote that you cited above is somewhere in the movie America: Freedom to Fascism.

My sentiments are:

Got Politicians???
Get a Rope!!!
535 is a Good Start!!!


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6709022309011886773

intenseGaze
10-16-2007, 02:32 AM
I once saw a much longer video with him in a number of parts.

His book THE FEDERAL MAFIA can be downloaded free here:

http://tinyurl.com/374fg4

There are some videos on that site too.