HP and Compaq CEO says she wants Islamic-inspired leadership

[Haifa]

speeches & articles

CARLY FIORINA
MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
SEPTEMBER 26, 2001
"TECHNOLOGY, BUSINESS AND OUR WAY OF LIFE: WHAT'S NEXT"


Thank you. Good evening, everyone.


[..................]


As business leaders, as we are faced with questions of life and death rather than how much our stock is worth, the significance of our business contribution to the world may be increased. And that is a good thing.

I’ll end by telling a story.

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world.

It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climes to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins.

One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities, and its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization’s commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

And this civilization was driven more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration.

Its writers created thousands of stories. Stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others.

While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I’m talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. Sufi poet-philosophers like Rumi challenged our notions of self and truth. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership.

And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population–that included Christianity, Islamic, and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership — leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage — led to 800 years of invention and prosperity.

In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership– bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership.

With that, I’d like to open up the conversation and see what we, collectively, believe about the role of leadership.

[Vic]

This is somewhat at odds with your signature"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala' Al-Maryisn't it? ;)

Now seriously. The accomplishments of "the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600" are undeniable. But what is it in your opinion that happened afterwards? I don't think that there are many countries with predominantly Muslim population and exemplary leadership today. Why this downslide? Can you think of any ways out of it?

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Vic
This is somewhat at odds with your signatureisn't it? ;)

Now seriously. The accomplishments of "the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600" are undeniable. But what is it in your opinion that happened afterwards? I don't think that there are many countries with predominantly Muslim population and exemplary leadership today. Why this downslide? Can you think of any ways out of it?


Undeniable?????

Of course it's deniable! Can you answer the following:

1) Why haven't any of these "achievements" appeared until the Muslims started conquering countries with an ALREADY established civilization like Egypt, Prussian, and the Roman?

2) Why can't we find ANY KIND of civilization in old Saudi Arabia (where Islam started), whereas according to your words, this should have been the "source" of civilization and scientific achievements since all the Islam started and was concentrated there.

3) What do you think Muslims invented that the great civilizations like Rome and Alexandria didn't invent?

4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?

5) If Islam was that civilized and advanced, why Arabs needed, for example, Christian Egyptians to continue managing the financial issues in Egypt when they conquer it?

The problem is that only ignorant people talks about that issue! Go and find a book about ancient Egyptian civilization and its scientific accomplishments, then get a book about the accomplishments of Arabs in the period they conquer Egypt at. Surprisingly you will find that ALL the ancient Egyptian scientific inventions are credited to Muslims IN THE TIME PERIOD they conquer Egypt at.

When you read any comprehensive book about early Islamic civilization, you will find that this era was simply fights and conspiracy between Muslims ruler (i.e. the main Khalifa and the governors or Wolah) and filled with assassinations and barbaric life style.

Everything credited to Islamis Civilization is simply stolen from the lands they conquered.

[Haifa]

Vic, the thread was aimed at Coptic Xians, not Jews. It really pisses me off when Coptics (not all xians, just coptics) come and say muslims did not invent anything, while they (coptics) are the most backword people in history.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

________

Back to vic: yes, most islamic countries are backward now, and here are the reasons:

Now we all know that religion is the opposite of advancement. In the past, the whole world was religious, so westeners did not have the advantage they have over muslims (the advantage is
being unreligious/atheist). At that point of history, muslims became the leading civilization and they had all the science and discoveries etc.

Now, however, the west is becoming atheist, and they have n advantage over muslim countries that are prevented from advancing because of religion.


That is not the only reason, and it may not be the most important, either. Other reasons include various events such as internal wars, and the transfer of power to the Turks (the Ottomons). Now the irony is that turky itself, which was the cause of the backwardness in the Islamic world, became secular.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha.


I'm giving an example of one of the civilizations. If you think ancient egyptian civilization hadn't invented anything, then I'm feeling pitty for your ignorance.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
Vic, the thread was aimed at Coptic Xians, not Jews. It really pisses me off when Coptics (not all xians, just coptics) come and say muslims did not invent anything, while they (coptics) are the most backword people in history.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

________

Back to vic: yes, most islamic countries are backward now, and here are the reasons:

Now we all know that religion is the opposite of advancement. In the past, the whole world was religious, so westeners did not have the advantage they have over muslims (the advantage is
being unreligious/atheist). At that point of history, muslims became the leading civilization and they had all the science and discoveries etc.

Now, however, the west is becoming atheist, and they have n advantage over muslim countries that are prevented from advancing because of religion.


That is not the only reason, and it may not be the most important, either. Other reasons include various events such as internal wars, and the transfer of power to the Turks (the Ottomons). Now the irony is that turky itself, which was the cause of the backwardness in the Islamic world, became secular.


I'm wondering why haven't you dared answering any og the questions I asked and just commented about the "coptic" issue.

Are you a Muslim? Because as far as I see that's a typical Muslim behavior. When he get stuck, he just tries to branch to any silly sub-topic.

[Haifa]

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

Now I'll answer your empty questions again:

1) Why haven't any of these "achievements" appeared until the Muslims started conquering countries with an ALREADY established civilization like Egypt, Prussian, and the Roman?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy. All the civilizations were conquered within 30 years of the establishment of islam.
Before conquering these civilizations, there was NO Islam. How can the achievements of Islamic civilization appear before there was Islam?

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

The islamic civilization may have been based on the ancient ones, and I do not see anything wrong with this!


2) Why can't we find ANY KIND of civilization in old Saudi Arabia (where Islam started), whereas according to your words, this should have been the "source" of civilization and scientific achievements since all the Islam started and was concentrated there.


This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?



3) What do you think Muslims invented that the great civilizations like Rome and Alexandria didn't invent?


many many things. Would you like a website?


4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?


This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website


The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.


http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar



5) If Islam was that civilized and advanced, why Arabs needed, for example, Christian Egyptians to continue managing the financial issues in Egypt when they conquer it?



Because No civilkization starts advanced. They probably relied on xians in the first couple of years then developped their own civilization. Again, people start from where others stopped.

Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Any ways, You've got to distinguish between the islamic civilization and islam itself, which you fail to do, partly because of your biggotry and deep hatred for muslims.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

[Ezra]

Ok, although you seem an impolite and ignorant person (a typical Muslims) but I'll reply to you. Not because you worth anything, but to show the people the animal-nature of Islam.

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy. All the civilizations were conquered within 30 years of the establishment of islam.
Before conquering these civilizations, there was NO Islam. How can the achievements of Islamic civilization appear before there was Islam?
And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?
The islamic civilization may have been based on the ancient ones, and I do not see anything wrong with this!

Obviously you are so idiot and don't understand what you read. But no problem. What I meant is where were ANY of these scientific achievements before Islam starts conquering their neighbors? Why haven't we heard about ANY KIND of civilization in this 30 years? Ha?


This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

Again idiot and just snap to any sub-topic when you get stuck. When I mention Saudi Arabia I mean the Arabian Peninsula (shebh gazirat el arab - If you want to show off in Arabic). I just used the Saudia Arabia name to match your simple mind. Now you are the ignorant. You said after 30 years there were no one in the Arabian Peninsula? Oh yeh? So where were Abo Bakr, Omar Ibn el Khattab, Ali ibn abi taleb, and Osman Ben Affan? Ha? Where was the location of Khalifah? ha?
I thought I asked from the start: NO LIES!


many many things. Would you like a website?

I thought you knew what you were talking about! Oh yeh please…


This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website *****

Crab! Then who burned it? The sun light or the hot weather?

Because No civilkization starts advanced. They probably relied on xians in the first couple of years then developped their own civilization. Again, people start from where others stopped.

How about even after 150 for their invasion of North Africa they couldn't run anything in the country except the military issues?


Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.


I'm not surprised from you style. I know that if you have a machine gun you would have killed me by now. Typical Muslim.


Even a half-wit can get this! Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

No. I just attack liers like you.


Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Sure I can after we finish proving that you are a BIG idiot and a liar.

[Teacake]

Haifa seems to be saying that until islam came about 1500 years ago, the world barely left the stone age! HAHAHAHA! That all the scientific and other human advances just suddenly materialized from a primative vaccume until islam appeared.

Never mind that islamic warriors sacked every great center of civilization they plundered into. A bunch of brutal carpetbaggers taking credit for the achievments of others. As if "islamic achievements" materialized like magic from nothing. What a crock. There was nothing islamic intellectuals did on their own. Alexandria was left in rubble by muslims, Moorish Spain was already at its height by the time islam came to town, but the one thing islam achieved which is still a thriving business, is slavery. And all this business about reparations for african slavery should be presented at islam's door.

[elke]

Scientific advancement is not necessarily against religion. A poll conducted in the '90s showed that approximately 40% of scientists were religious, and only about 25% or so certain Atheist. The rest were Agnositics. If anyone is interested, I will try to dig out this poll - I read about it a couple of years ago. Yes, polls of this nature are notoriously inaccurate, but we don't have to go far to confirm at least the gist of these findings.

Darwin made references to the "Creator", as did Einstein. Whether these great minds subscribed to any organized religion is moot: the fact is that neither of them was an Atheist. Nor were many others Atheist - such as Benjamin Franklin.

Only dogma, religious or not, is counter to scientific advancement. It is also counter to social improvement. This is exactly what we are seeing in the Muslim world today: dogma, religious or secular, forced upon the populace, keeping it ignorant and malnourished.

Unfortunately, simply learning factual information alone does not necessarily lead to better understanding of the world, which is the basis of all scientific and cultural advancement. The change must occur in the very thinking process used in acquiring this education through analysis. Dogmatic pov actively suppresses critical thinking skills and thus prevents scientific and cultural improvement. This is why even with the educational opportunities available to persons from the Muslim world, few contributions to the human body of knowledge came from there.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Teacake
Haifa seems to be saying that until islam came about 1500 years ago, the world barely left the stone age! HAHAHAHA! That all the scientific and other human advances just suddenly materialized from a primative vaccume until islam appeared.

Never mind that islamic warriors sacked every great center of civilization they plundered into. A bunch of brutal carpetbaggers taking credit for the achievments of others. As if "islamic achievements" materialized like magic from nothing. What a crock. There was nothing islamic intellectuals did on their own. Alexandria was left in rubble by muslims, Moorish Spain was already at its height by the time islam came to town, but the one thing islam achieved which is still a thriving business, is slavery. And all this business about reparations for african slavery should be presented at islam's door.

Very well said, Teacake.

As a follow-up with Teacake words, Haifa, would you please compare between Alexandria before Arab conquer and after?

[Haifa]

yea sure, I'll prepare a chart of comparison, but after you name one COPTIC CHRISTIAN scientist and what he provided for the world. This means this scientist must have lived between 50~ CE when xianity entered egypt until ~700 CE when islam came.
here is a PARTIAL list of islamic ones:

701 (died) - Khalid Ibn Yazeed - Alchemy

721 - Jabir Ibn Haiyan (Geber) - (Great Muslim Alchemist)

740 - Al-Asmai - (Zoology, Botany, Animal Husbandry)

780 - Al-Khwarizmi (Algorizm) - (Mathematics, Astronomy)

787 - Al Balkhi, Ja'Far Ibn Muhammas (Albumasar) - Astronomy, Fortune-telling

796 (died) - Al-Fazari,Ibrahim Ibn Habeeb - Astronomy, Translation

800 - Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi - (Alkindus) - (Philosophy, Physics, Optics)

808 - Hunain Ibn Is'haq - Medicine, Translator

815 - Al-Dinawari, Abu-Hanifa Ahmed Ibn Dawood - Mathematics, Linguistics

836 - Thabit Ibn Qurrah (Thebit) - (Astronomy, Mechanics)

838 - Ali Ibn Rabban Al-Tabari - (Medicine, Mathematics)

852 - Al Battani ABU abdillah (Albategni) - Mathematics, Astronomy, Engineering

857 - Ibn MasawaihYou'hanna - Medicine

858 - Al-Battani (Albategnius) - (Astronomy, mathematics)

860 - Al-Farghani (Al-Fraganus) - (Astronomy,Civil Engineering)

884 - Al-Razi (Rhazes) - (Medicine,Ophthalmology, Chemistry)

870 - Al-Farabi (Al-Pharabius) - (Sociology, Logic, Science, Music)

900 - (died) - Abu Hamed Al-ustrulabi - Astronomy

903 - Al-Sufi (Azophi - ( Astronomy)

908 - Thabit Ibn Qurrah - Medicine, Engineering

912 (died) - Al-Tamimi Muhammad Ibn Amyal (Attmimi) - Alchemy

923 (died) - Al-Nirizi, AlFadl Ibn Ahmed (wronge Altibrizi) - Mathematics, Astronomy

930 - Ibn Miskawayh, Ahmed Abuali - Medicine, Alchemy

932 - Ahmed Al-Tabari - Medicine

936 - Abu Al-Qasim Al-Zahravi (Albucasis) - (Surgery, Medicine)

940 - Muhammad Al-Buzjani - (Mathematics, Astronomy, Geometry)

950 - Al Majrett'ti Abu-alQasim - Astronomy, Alchemy, Mathematics

960 (died) - Ibn Wahshiyh, Abu Baker - Alchemy, Botany

965 - Ibn Al-Haitham (Alhazen) - Physics, Optics, Mathematics)

973 - Abu Raihan Al-Biruni - (Astronomy, Mathematics)

976 - Ibn Abil Ashath - Medicine

980 - Ibn Sina (Avicenna) - (Medicine, Philosophy, Mathematics)

983 - Ikhwan A-Safa (Assafa) - (Group of Muslim Scientists)

1019 - Al-Hasib Alkarji - Mathematics

1029 - Al-Zarqali (Arzachel) - Astronomy (Invented Astrolabe)

1044 - Omar Al-Khayyam - (Mathematics, Poetry)

1060 - (died) Ali Ibn Ridwan Abu'Hassan Ali - Medicine

1077 - Ibn Abi-Sadia Abul Qasim - Medicine

1090 - Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - Surgery, Medicine

1095 - Ibn Bajah, Mohammed Ibn Yahya

1097 - Ibn Al-Baitar Diauddin (Bitar) - Botany, Medicine, Pharmacology

1099 - Al-Idrisi (Dreses) - Geography, World Map (First Globe)

1091 - Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) - ( Surgery, Medicine)

1095 - Ibn Bajah, Mohammad Ibn Yahya (Avenpace) - Philosophy, Medicine

1099 - Al-Idrisi (Dreses) - (Geography -World Map, First Globe)

1100 - Ibn Tufayl Al-Qaysi - Philosophy, Medicine

1120 - (died) - Al-Tuhra-ee, Al-Husain Ibn Ali - Alchemy, Poem

1128 - Ibn Rushd (Averroe's) - Philosophy, Medicine

1135 - Ibn Maymun, Musa (Maimonides) - Medicine, Philosphy

1140 - Al-Badee Al-Ustralabi - Astronomy, Mathematics

1155 (died) - Abdel-al Rahman AlKhazin - Astronomy

1162 - Al Baghdadi, Abdellateef Muwaffaq - Medicine, Geography

1165 - Ibn A-Rumiyyah Abul'Abbas (Annabati) - Botany

1173 - Rasheed AlDeen Al-Suri - Botany

1184 - Al-Tifashi, Shihabud-Deen (Attifashi) - Metallurgy, Stones

1201 - Nasir Al-Din Al-Tusi - (Astronomy, Non-Euclidean Geometry)

1203 - Ibn Abi-Usaibi'ah, Muwaffaq Al-Din - Medicine

1204 (died) - Al-Bitruji (Alpetragius) - (Astronomy)

1213 - Ibn Al-Nafis Damishqui - (Anatomy)

1236 - Kutb Aldeen Al-Shirazi - Astronomy, Geography

1248 (died) - Ibn Al-Baitar - ( Pharmacy, Botany)

1258 - Ibn Al-Banna (Al Murrakishi), Azdi - Medicine, Mathematics

1262 (died) - Al-Hassan Al-Murarakishi - Mathematics, Astronomy, Geography

1273 - Al-Fida (Abdulfeda) - ( Astronomy, Geography)

1306 - Ibn Al-Shater Al Dimashqi - Astronomy, Mathematics

1320 (died) - Al Farisi Kamalud-deen Abul-Hassan - Astronomy, Physics

1341 (died) - Al-Jildaki, Muhammad Ibn Aidamer - Alchemy

1351 - Ibn Al-Majdi, Abu Abbas Ibn Tanbugha - Mathematics, Astronomy

1359 - Ibn Al-Magdi,Shihab-Udden Ibn Tanbugha - Mathematic, Astronomy

[Haifa]

by partial list I mean scientists taken from here and there. A detailed list would go like this:

mathematics: names
medicine: names
philosophy: names.


Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

[Mediocrates]

Newton, Kepler, Brahe, Copernicus, Gallileo, Rheinmann, Gauss, Taylor, Liebniz, Fermat, Descartes, Pasteur, Darwin, Russell, Oppenheimer, Lawrence, Locke, Monteisque, Shakespear.......


I could go on for several hundred pages.

[Teacake]

Haifa,
no one is disputing that arabs and muslims had an involvment in the arts and sciences, what is disputed is that islam invented or created anything. During islams golden years... ( its begining basically) arabs and muslims lived among Jews, Greeks, and many other cultures of which all had generations of making gigantic contributions to these fields.

Once again, you speak as if the world was still in the stone age prior to islam which is only 1500 years old. And don't forget, during that time, many Jews were "arabic."

[Ezra]

Haifa,

Would you please compare the names you mentioned with the names Mediocrates mentioned. It's like comparing the moon light with the sun!

If any of these Muslims had any book, it would be a pure translation for a scientific document from the civilization they conquered.

[Haifa]

Mediocrates, I said (((((((((((~~~COPTIC~~~)))))))))))) christian.


The guy made the claim that many muslim inventions were stolen from coptics. I challenge him to name one well-known coptic scientist. What does europe and newton have to do with this?

If you do not know what coptic is, it means an _EGYPTIAN_ christian following the coptic church, which is independant from other churches.

Therefore, none of the people in the list are coptic. And Darwin was not even christian, let alone being a coptic.


Now saying that all books are a translation is undescribable. So, it turns that all the scientists and mathematicians and artists were infact translators, ha? ok, this makes sense.
______
Teacake: yes, I am not disputing that there were "arab jews" and that they did have some contributions. Nor am I denying that muslims took what others had and added to it, and then in the 1600s, europe took what muslims had and added to that. I do not see anything wrong with this natural process.
__________


Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

And still have not names a single coptic.

Now what really pisses me off is when coptics, who are in no way related to the 1600s renaissance, nor are they related to the europeans, except that they both believe in a god who died on stick (btw europeans are atheist now, hahha) come and take credit for what newton or others did.


Coptics can only take credit for what the coptic priest did 2 years ago: having sex with 2000 infertile women after telling them that his holy sperm will help them have children.

It's been nice talking to you, Ezra. However, I'm not interested in re-experiencing this nightmae again.

[Mediocrates]

oh ok.

Some beauty contest though. ~~~~~~~

[Haifa]

:D :D :D

My smile wins

[Ezra]

The guy made the claim that many muslim inventions were stolen from coptics. I challenge him to name one well-known coptic scientist. What does europe and newton have to do with this?

Still your stupid way of discussion. But no problem. We got used to that. I'm talking about the WHOLE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION along of course with the Roman civilization which was in Egypt at the time of the Muslims conquer.

If you do not know what coptic is, it means an _EGYPTIAN_ christian following the coptic church, which is independant from other churches.

Therefore, none of the people in the list are coptic. And Darwin was not even christian, let alone being a coptic.

Why are you mixing our replies with this STUPID way? If you are stuck, just tell us and we will stop.

Teacake: yes, I am not disputing that there were "arab jews" and that they did have some contributions. Nor am I denying that muslims took what others had and added to it, and then in the 1600s, europe took what muslims had and added to that. I do not see anything wrong with this natural process.

Still waiting for you to compare the egyptian civilization after the Roman conquer, and after the Islamic conquer.

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

No comment. I'm sure everyone is laughing at you now.

And still have not names a single coptic.

Now what really pisses me off is when coptics, who are in no way related to the 1600s renaissance, nor are they related to the europeans, except that they both believe in a god who died on stick (btw europeans are atheist now, hahha) come and take credit for what newton or others did.


Coptics can only take credit for what the coptic priest did 2 years ago: having sex with 2000 infertile women after telling them that his holy sperm will help them have children.

2000 WOMEN! HAHAHAHAHAHAH.... So let's make the math here. Assume he sleeps with 2/day, that means he slept continuously with them for 1000 days. That's 2 years and 8 months of CONTIUOUS sex 2 times daily! Hahahahahahaha... Sooo funny.

THAT'S EVEN HORNIER THAN MUHAMMAD WHO MARRIED 27 WOMEN ONE OF THEM WAS 9 YERS OLD ! HAHAHAHAHA

It's been nice talking to you, Ezra. However, I'm not interested in re-experiencing this nightmae again.

Hahahaha.. Haifa is running when he got stuck! Hahahaha.. Haifa is running when he got stuck! Hahahaha.. Haifa is running when he got stuck!

[Haifa]

Ezra is going on the defensive.

Anyways he does not have to turn it into a personal battle. He can still insult by saying "the idea is stupid" instead of saying "you are stupid."


My replies did not expose him as much as his own writing did.

Hopefully, we can get an intellegent copt here. Maybe after a thousand years.

[Mediocrates]

This is interesting to you and maybe 10 other people. What's with the coptic obession????

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
This is interesting to you and maybe 10 other people. What's with the coptic obession????

He is just trying to get away from where he got stuck in!

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
This is interesting to you and maybe 10 other people. What's with the coptic obession????


It's so funny that Haifa was the one who mentioned the Copts first! Now all he is not talking about anything else and don't want to answer the questions we asked him! Of course it's so obvious why!

[Haifa]

just like a kid. again, a typical coptic liar.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
just like a kid. again, a typical coptic liar.

Hahahahahahahaha...

Oh sure.. I'm the liar! Here are the messages go and see it by yourself!

I just have one question: Don't you feel ashame when you use lies and deceiving to justify the ugliness of your religion, i.e. Islam. I don't want a public answer. Just keep the answer to yourself and think deeply about it.

By the way, you look reallllllllyyyy bad escaping the questions we asked. I'm sure you will come with ANOTHER execuse and another sub-topic to avoid them!

Guys, do you remember "Right defender" and that other guy (can't remember his name)? We have a third one here!

[Haifa]

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

He reminds me of an old classmate. Each time he was beaten up he stood up again and said "I challenge you to beat me up and make me cry!!" Each time he was beaten up again, of course.

He also reminds me of the old saying: "There is a pill for every desease except stupidity"

[Ezra]

No problem. Let me repeat the questions for the tenth time.

1) Why haven't we ever heard about your names, whereas the names mentioned by Mediocrates are recognaized internationally and through human history?

2) What happened to the extremely prestigious civilization position of Alexandria after the Arab conquer? Compare this to the effect of the Roman conquer.

3) Who burned the Library of Alexandria if Muslims didn't?

[Haifa]

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.





Julius Caesar

First, let us read the legendary account:

It is often said that the Romans were civilised but their most famous general was responsible for the greatest act of vandalism during antiquity. Julius Caesar was attacking Alexandria in pursuit of his archrival Pompey when he found himself about to be cut off by the Egyptian fleet. Realising that this would leave him in a desperate predicament, he took decisive action and sent fire ships into the harbour. His plan was a success and the enemy fleet was quickly aflame. But the fire did not stop these and jumped onto the dockside which was laden with flammable materials ready for export. Next it spread in land and before anyone could stop it, the Great Library itself was blazing brightly as 400,000 priceless scrolls were reduced to ashes. As for Caesar himself, did not think it important enough to mention in his memoirs.

The accused was indeed in Alexandria in 47 - 48 BC after arriving in pursuit of his rival Pompey. Caesar was able to occupy the city without any trouble after destroying the Egyptian fleet and was residing in the palace with Cleopatra when more trouble started. Some henchmen of the Pharaoh attacked with a sizable force and Caesar suddenly found himself stuck in a hostile city with very few forces. That he still won out is a tribute to his luck and powers of leadership. This much is uncontested but to unravel the fate of the Royal Library we must examine the ancient sources.

Julius Caesar - The Civil Wars

The earliest account we have of this these events is in The Civil Wars penned by Caesar (died 44BC) himself. In it he explains how he had to set the dockyards and Alexandrine fleet alight for his own safety as he was in dire straits. As to whether the fire spread away from the shore and also damaged the Royal Library, he is silent. The narrative in The Civil Wars break off at the start of the campaign in Egypt and the story is taken up by one of his lieutenant's called Hirtius (died 43BC) in The Alexandrine War. It does not include any mention of setting fire to Alexandria but instead states that in fact the city would not burn as it was made purely of stone.

We can log this as a Not Guilty plea by the accused but note that a reason he might have mentioned that Alexandria does not burn would be to hide his own action of burning it. Future history demonstrated many times that Alexandria burns just as well as any other city. The fire is also not mentioned by Cicero in his philippics against Caesar's ally Mark Anthony. This is a valuable witness for the defence, as Cicero did not like Caesar at all. Unfortunately it is also an argument from silence and it is very possible that Cicero either did not know about everything that happened, saw no need to mention this particular event or mentioned it in the quarter of his works no longer extant.

Strabo - Geography

The great scholar, Strabo (died after 24AD) was in Alexandria in 20BC and in all his detailed description of the palace and Museum does not mention the library at all. This omission is often explained by scholars claiming that the library was inside the Museum or annexed to it. But even so, not breathing a word about this famous institution is very suspicious. Can we conclude that the library was no longer there but that political constraints meant that its fate still could not be mentioned?

Modern writer, Mostafa El-Abbadi, comes up with a more subtle point. He shows how Strabo mentions the body of research available to one of the earlier librarians was much greater than Strabo himself had access to. He concludes that this shows that Strabo did not have access to the wisdom of the Royal Library that his illustrious predecessor had. The point is small but potentially significant.

Livy and Florus - Epitome of the History of Rome

The first mention of the fire at Alexandria would seem to come from Livy (died 17AD) in his History of Rome. The book that it was included in is lost and the surviving Summaries are too brief to include it. However, a second century Epitome written by Florus survives and it says that the fire was started by Caesar to clear the area around his position so the enemy had no cover from which to fire arrows. The library itself is not mentioned by Florus although it was in the same area of the city as Caesar who was occupying the palace at the time.

The Younger Seneca - On Tranquillity of the Mind

In fact we do know that the Royal Library is mentioned by Livy because he is later quoted by Seneca (died 65AD) in his dialogue On the Tranquillity of the Mind where he also says that a great number of books were destroyed. It has been asserted that Seneca must have got his knowledge about the destruction of the books from Livy but a close reading of the dialogue does not bear this out. Seneca actually only states that Livy thought the library was "the most distinguished achievement of the good taste and solicitude of kings" and then only so as he can disagree.

The actual number of books destroyed that Seneca gives is matter of some controversy that we will need to briefly address. In ancient manuscripts it is common for large numbers to be expressed as a dot placed above the numeral for each power of ten. Clearly in copying it is easy to make a mistake with the number of dots and errors by a factor of ten are frequent. That may have happened in the case of On the Tranquillity of the Mind. The manuscript from Monte Cassino actually reads 40,000 books but this is usually corrected to 400,000 by editors as other sources such as Orosius give this figure for the number of scrolls destroyed. I have not seen the manuscript, of course, so do not know if this way the number is expressed. However, even if it was given in words the difference between 40,000 and 400,000 is also pretty small. I propose therefore that the number given by Seneca, and indeed all other ancient sources, should be ruled as inadmissible as evidence because we cannot be sure of what it was originally.

Plutarch and Dio Cassius - Life of Caesar and Roman History

After this, the references become more explicit. Plutarch (died 120AD), in his Life of Caesar throws in a reference to the destruction of the library almost casually. Now Plutarch does not seem to carry a brief against Caesar, although he is happy to criticise him, so we should take this reference seriously. Additionally, he had visited Alexandria and presumably might have noticed if the library was still in existence. Dio Cassius (died 235AD) tells us that warehouses of books near the docks were accidentally burnt by Caesar's men. His words are difficult to pin down and have led some scholars to suggest that only books waiting for export were destroyed. This reads far more into the text than it allows and I do not think that Dio saying that the books 'happened' to be in the path of the flames means that usually they were kept somewhere else.

Aulus Gellius - Attic Nights

Gellius (died 180 AD) included in his Attic Nights contain a brief passage about libraries where the destruction of the Royal Library is mentioned as taking place by accident during our first war against Alexandria when auxiliary soldiers started a fire. This first war was Caesar's campaign and the second was when Octavian took Egypt from Mark Anthony and Cleopatra. In The Vanished Library, Luciano Canfora claims that this passage is an interpolation on the strength that the introduction does not mention it but again the evidence for this seems flimsy. Gellius claims 700,000 books went up in smoke.

Ammianus Marcellinus and Orosius - Roman History and History against the Pagans

One of the final pagan Roman historians, Ammianus Marcellinus (died 395AD), tells us about the fate of the library during an aside about the city of Alexandria in his Roman History. He relates the story of the fire started by Julius Caesar is 'the unanimous belief of the ancient authors' but confuses the library building with the Serapeum and increases the number of scrolls destroyed to 700,000 (perhaps Gellius is his source). The story is repeated with the figure of 400,000 scrolls destroyed by Orosius (died after 415AD), an early Christian historian, in his History against the Pagans. Both these writers are far too late to be accurate sources on their own but they do tell us that by the fourth century the Royal Library was widely believed to have been destroyed by Julius Caesar. We will be discussing them further below with regard to the destruction of the Serapeum which occurred in their own time.

[Ezra]

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

Oh, yeh? A very funny answer! Keep laughing on yourself!

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

Ahhhhhhh???? Now who is the ignorant here?????
The Romans are who built the great Alexandria! It was the light-source for all kind of civilization during the Roman ruling. Look at it's name you idiot : ALEXANDRIA !!!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

Haaaaaa????? If the Roman built it, then why would they destroy it?

[elke]

Since when do Romans (Pagans) have the same religion as Coptic Christians? :confused:

[Ezra]

Originally posted by elke
Since when do Romans (Pagans) have the same religion as Coptic Christians? :confused:

I think Haifa started talking rubbish!

[Haifa]

The library of Alexandria was built by Alexander the Macedonian you half-wit. or do you not know who that is?

Here is the history of who built the library and who conquered it. The Romans built it, eh? Who are you fooling?

________________

332 BCE: Founded by the Macedonian king Alexander the Great, near the fishing village Rhakotis.

305 BCE: Alexandria is made into the capital of the kingdom of the Ptolomies.

3rd century BCE: The library of Alexandria is reported to consist of 500,000 volumes.

31 BCE: Ptolemaic forces are beaten by the Romans, and Alexandria falls under Roman control.

215: An ordering to massacre the male population of Alexandria, is given by the Roman emperor Caracalla.

_________________

so from this we find the the macedonians built it and the romans destroyed it. Again, what do you expect from a coptic?

I suggest he educates himself beforing coming back, preferably from scratch, ie the abc.


Instead of reading what I posted and replying to it using historical evidance, he gives me a string of "hahaha."

No wonder they are so backward.

[Haifa]

elke, have you ever studied history?

after xianity, the romans became xian!! In fact, within 100 CE, the official religion of the roman empire was xianity!

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
The library of Alexandria was built by Alexander the Macedonian you half-wit. or do you not know who that is?

Here is the history of who built the library and who conquered it. The Romans built it, eh? Who are you fooling?

________________

332 BCE: Founded by the Macedonian king Alexander the Great, near the fishing village Rhakotis.

305 BCE: Alexandria is made into the capital of the kingdom of the Ptolomies.

3rd century BCE: The library of Alexandria is reported to consist of 500,000 volumes.

31 BCE: Ptolemaic forces are beaten by the Romans, and Alexandria falls under Roman control.

215: An ordering to massacre the male population of Alexandria, is given by the Roman emperor Caracalla.

_________________

so from this we find the the macedonians built it and the romans destroyed it. Again, what do you expect from a coptic?

I suggest he educates himself beforing coming back, preferably from scratch, ie the abc.


Instead of reading what I posted and replying to it using historical evidance, he gives me a string of "hahaha."

No wonder they are so backward.


Oh my God! We are really going toward the extreme of ignorance! Guys please don't laugh. Haifa is teaching us a history from another planet!

Haifa, would you please tell us what is the relation between: Alexander the Great, Macedonians, and Romans?

Maybe you can shed some light about "Macedonians"? Like where was it? …. etc.

Also who were the "presidents" of the Great Library of Alexandria? And whether there were Romans or from Afghanistan!!!!!!

And maybe you can tell us by which language were all the books in this library written with?

And how long was it between the ruling of the Romans till the burning of the library?

FINALLY, CAN YOU TELL US (IN CAPITAL LETTERS WITH LARGE RED FONT) WHEN DID THE ROMANS ENTER EGYPT, WHEN DID THE ARAB MUSLIMS ENTER EGYPT, AND WHEN WAS THE LIBRARY BURNED.

[Haifa]

I just told you you moron. Its here

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=22032#post22032


What kind of person am I dealing with? Each time you slap him and make him cry he stands and says "I challenge you to beat me up" and we start with the beating all over again.


Again, you keep running away!! Name one known coptic scientist and what he provided for the world

annswer in red!

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
I just told you you moron. Its here

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?postid=22032#post22032


What kind of person am I dealing with? Each time you slap him and make him cry he stands and says "I challenge you to beat me up" and we start with the beating all over again.


Again, you keep running away!! Name one known coptic scientist and what he provided for the world

annswer in red!


Don't you see it kind of strange that the library remained there during the Roman presence in Egypt and destroyed only when the Arabs came in?

Why haven't they destroyed it from the moment they stepped in Egypt?

[Adversary2Arabs]

My only question is: Why are we talking about this anyway?

[cerulean]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
My only question is: Why are we talking about this anyway?

Somewhere in this discussion are some legitimate questions as to the nature of Islamic science and philosophy in the medieval period (whether the scholars in question were free-thinkers or devout Muslims), whether various cultures had their learning appropriated by Islamic invaders (as the Assyrians claim), and who was responsible for the destruction of various libraries (such as in Alexandria).

[elke]

But Haifa, Romans did not become Christian until a couple of hundred years after Julius Ceasar!

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by elke
But Haifa, Romans did not become Christian until a couple of hundred years after Julius Ceasar!

Officially, with Constantine, 303 A.D.

[elke]

Originally posted by Mediocrates


Officially, with Constantine, 303 A.D.

Thanks, Mediocrates :) I forget the dates, all the time! :o

OK, Romans became Christian full 400+ years after Julius Ceasar!

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Mediocrates


Officially, with Constantine, 303 A.D.

Officially, yes, but he really wasn't...Constantine only converted because his mother was a Christian. In one night he went from hunting and killign Christians, to becoming one. He was baptized, but he still practices his cultures pagan religions, as well as most of his people. That is partially why now Christianity is more pagan than Christian.

[Haifa]

ok elke. Thank you for telling me that they were not coptic at the time.

But still, the grandfathers of the coptics did it :)

[elke]

Originally posted by Haifa
ok elke. Thank you for telling me that they were not coptic at the time.

But still, the grandfathers of the coptics did it :)

Hey, ever heard of obsession? What's this with Coptics? What do you have against them? And Bedouins too? :confused: :confused:

[Ezra]

Originally posted by elke


Hey, ever heard of obsession? What's this with Coptics? What do you have against them? And Bedouins too? :confused: :confused:


Muslims have everything against everyone. Look every where and any where and you will find that very clear. From the WTC center in west till killing Christians in Indonesia in the east. And from their hate seminars in Holland in the north till again killing Christians in Nigeria in south. Of course, needless to say what happened in between.

This is the spirit if Islam which was briefed in a very clear words in the Koraan: "The only religion at Allah is Islam, and whoever seek other than Islam will not be accepted".

[Mediocrates]

this will come out wrong but here goes -

It is short sighted and self serving to look under every rock for the Islamic cause of attacks on Israel and on the west. In our own case the 19 terrorists lived in middle class Florida and other places, worked, hung out in strip malls and strip clubs, rented videos from Blockbuster and were otherwise indistinguishable from any random group of H1B visa workers in some nondescript field in the US. If they had paraded around in mufti garb caning uncovered women in the street and blocking traffic with prayer rugs they would not have been successful.

Whatever they believed personally was hidden by the operational goals of their mission. Did they believe they soiled themselves with Western decadence? It seems not. It seems that once someone convinced them that we were evil for any number of reasons they didn't need to think it about any further. We were just another target.

The root cause of that is a complex toxic brew of religious fundamentalism, power politics, arrogance, money, paranoia and hate. Islam - whatever version of it they believe in seems to be but a small part of it. No different really from Christians who murder abortion doctors.

[Ezra]

Mediocrates,

this will come out wrong but here goes -

It is short sighted and self serving to look under every rock for the Islamic cause of attacks on Israel and on the west. In our own case the 19 terrorists lived in middle class Florida and other places, worked, hung out in strip malls and strip clubs, rented videos from Blockbuster and were otherwise indistinguishable from any random group of H1B visa workers in some nondescript field in the US. If they had paraded around in mufti garb caning uncovered women in the street and blocking traffic with prayer rugs they would not have been successful.

Whatever they believed personally was hidden by the operational goals of their mission. Did they believe they soiled themselves with Western decadence? It seems not. It seems that once someone convinced them that we were evil for any number of reasons they didn't need to think it about any further. We were just another target.

These 19 terrorists were living the American style of life not because they like it, but because it provided a good cover for their mission. In the paper revealed by the FBI in the first days after 9/11, it stated clearly that you (i.e. the terrorists) have the permission to do temporary evil in order for the holy mission to succeed (something like the goal justifies the method).


The root cause of that is a complex toxic brew of religious fundamentalism, power politics, arrogance, money, paranoia and hate. Islam - whatever version of it they believe in seems to be but a small part of it. No different really from Christians who murder abortion doctors.

Ok, let's analyze this toxic brew. First of all differentiate between the mastermind and the executive members. Certainly the mastermind is driven by politics, money (maybe hate)...etc. But this is not the issue at all. The issue is that what is the ideology that allowed him to very easily find people to be his followers? For Islam, if you want to kill any non-Muslim, it's so simple to convince any Muslim to do it FROM Koran. After all it's the word of God (for them of course) and the reward is great (a paradise filled with virgins).

Now take any other crime in any other religion (not sure, however, why did you choose Christian killing abortion doctors; How many of these happened in the US last year?). You will certainly find murders in every religion. But which religion justifies killing (other than Islam)? Which religion provides you with a very easy way to gather followers for killing either by force or by desire? Does the Bible ask Christians to kill abortion doctors? No. Does the Torah ask Jewish to kill Muslims? No. Does Koran ask Muslims to kill infidels? YES. This is the difference. It's not a matter of what the followers of a religion do, it's a matter of what is the basis of their acts, is it their holy book or personal motivation. Unfortunately, you can stop any personal motivation, but can never stop any "HOLY" motivation.

[Haifa]

elke, yes, to be honest, I do have a coptic obsession. for two reasons:

- they are the most extremist sect of christianity (aside from the lord's army, of course), and yet, they talk about islam being extremist when they are just like, and maybe more, extremist than muslims.

-they have been living in egypt as a minority for 1500 years, and now there are coptic members of parliament and they control the medicine industry in egypt. Yet, they still speak against those who fed them for 1500 years.

It is not just one or two.. they all are the same. All of them. Can you imagine the amount of hatred spitefullness they have?

- they are also hypocrite. when they are in egypt, they talk about tolerance and all the ****. when they go to the west they start speaking against their country instead of defending it.

-you have to realize that all of them are citizens and there are even coptic memebers of parliament.

Just take it to a personal level, how would you feel if all arabs of israel after living for 2000 years as citizens (not now, but after 2000 years) all of them collectively decided to betray you?

This is why I have a coptic obsession!!

[Adversary2Arabs]

Saying that they control the medicine industry sounds very similar to the sayings: Jews control America; Jews own all the banks; Jews control the World; etc.? You may be right, but I haven't the least idea.

[elke]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
Saying that they control the medicine industry sounds very similar to the sayings: Jews control America; Jews own all the banks; Jews control the World; etc.? You may be right, but I haven't the least idea.

Very perceptive, A2A! Just what I wanted to say! :)

Haifa, but it's not just that: this "gratefulness" talk is rather disturbing. Tell me something: are they Egyptian? Do they look different, eat different foods (other than pork), speak different language? If so, why should they be grateful? And for what exactly? And to whom?

I don't know anything about the Coptics, except that they are an Egyptian Christian sect, so forgive my ignorance, but this certainly sounds like a bias to me...

[Adversary2Arabs]

I just got this from www.coptic.net (Coptic Church Website):

"Daily, in all Coptic Churches all over the world, Copts pray for the reunion of all Christian Churches. They pray for Egypt, its Nile, its crops, its president, its army, its government, and above all its people. They pray for the world's peace and for the well-being of the human race. " From Bottom

---
And thank you elke :)

[Ezra]

Hmmm.. Very interesting.. Let's see..

- they are the most extremist sect of christianity (aside from the lord's army, of course), and yet, they talk about islam being extremist when they are just like, and maybe more, extremist than muslims.

Can you give us examples? I mean do they kill Muslims? Please clarify more. Can you please tell us about the Kosh events in 2000 and El Zawya el Hamra events, or maybe Abo Qorqas, or you know what, just tell us about Abo senbo events? How come than the overall death toll for all these events (according to the Religion freedom organization) was 750 Copts and 8 Muslims.

-they have been living in Egypt as a minority for 1500 years, and now there are Coptic members of parliament and they control the medicine industry in egypt.

Minority? I thought they were the original extension of ancient Egyptians. Can you please shed some light on the origin of Copts? Are they originally Egyptians? When did they come/appear in Egypt?
Can you please tell us how many Coptic:
1) In the Parlimant?
2) As a minister?
3) As a university professor/dean/presisdent?
4) With a rank of "general" in both the army and the police?
5) In the medicine industry?

Yet, they still speak against those who fed them for 1500 years.

Oh, you mean the Muslims who came from the desert knowing nothing about anything (except f*** goats of course) were feeding the Copts who had one of the most beautiful/fruitful/civilized countries at that time?

-It is not just one or two.. they all are the same. All of them. Can you imagine the amount of hatred spitefullness they have?

Wooow. You look like you lived in Egypt for a long time. Can you give us some examples of this hate? Have you ever been to Egypt before in the first place?

- they are also hypocrite. when they are in egypt, they talk about tolerance and all the ****. when they go to the west they start speaking against their country instead of defending it.

Can you give us examples (or maybe some links) about how they speak bad about Egypt? Or whether they speak bad about Muslims or Egypt?

-you have to realize that all of them are citizens and there are even coptic memebers of parliament.

I thought they HAVE to be citizens. Arent's they the original people in Egypt? Isn't it the Arabs who invaded them? Again, can you please tell us how many Coptic are there in the Parlimant?

Just take it to a personal level, how would you feel if all arabs of israel after living for 2000 years as citizens (not now, but after 2000 years) all of them collectively decided to betray you?

Betray? You mean the torturing of Muslims to the Christians in Egypt? How about you read the International Human Rights report about Christian treating in Egypt.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
elke, yes, to be honest, I do have a coptic obsession. for two reasons:

- they are the most extremist sect of christianity (aside from the lord's army, of course), and yet, they talk about islam being extremist when they are just like, and maybe more, extremist than muslims.

-they have been living in egypt as a minority for 1500 years, and now there are coptic members of parliament and they control the medicine industry in egypt. Yet, they still speak against those who fed them for 1500 years.

It is not just one or two.. they all are the same. All of them. Can you imagine the amount of hatred spitefullness they have?

- they are also hypocrite. when they are in egypt, they talk about tolerance and all the ****. when they go to the west they start speaking against their country instead of defending it.

-you have to realize that all of them are citizens and there are even coptic memebers of parliament.

Just take it to a personal level, how would you feel if all arabs of israel after living for 2000 years as citizens (not now, but after 2000 years) all of them collectively decided to betray you?

This is why I have a coptic obsession!!

Let's see the rotten Islamic lies of Haifa crashes when we read the what the Copts say in their prayers. Haifa, if you are still not shy to appear once again after you dirty smell came out, then we will love to hear your comments!


The Prayer of Peace

Priest:
We ask and entreat Your goodness O Lover of Mankind.
remember, O Lord, the peace of Your one holy Catholic
and apostolic church.
Deacon:
Pray for the peace of the one holy Catholic and apostolic
Orthodox church, and for God’s salvation among the
people, and order in every place, and for the forgiveness
of out sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Priest:
That which exists from one end of the world to the other.

Prayer of the King

Priest:
[Remember, O Lord] the ruler of our land, Your servant....
Deacon:
Pray that Christ our God, grant us mercy and compassion
before the mighty rulers, and incline their hearts with
goodness towards us at all times, and forgive us our sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Priest:
Keep him in peace, Justice and might, subdue unto him
all nations that may desire war for all that is prosperous to
us. Speak in his heart for the peace of Your one only holy
Catholic and apostolic church. Grant .him to think
peacefully of us and of Your Holy Name, so that we also
may live a calm and orderly life, and we may exist in
every godliness and virtue through You.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.

Prayer of The Place

Priest:
Remember, O Lord, this holy place which is Yours, and
all places and all the monasteries of our Orthodox fathers.
Pray for the good order of this holy place and all places
and all the monasteries of our Orthodox fathers, the
deserts and the elders that dwell therein, and the good
order of the whole world all together; that Christ our God
may deliver them from all evil and forgive us our sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Priest:
And every city, and every region, and the villages, and all
the houses of the faithful; keep us all in the Orthodox faith
to the last breath, for this alone Is our hope.

Prayer of Remembering Those Who Asked Us

Priest:
Remember, O Lord, those who have bidden us to
remember them....
Deacon:
Pray for all those who have bidden us to remember them
in our prayers and supplications, each one by his name,
that Christ our God may remember them with goodness
at all times and forgive us our sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Priest:
... In our prayers and supplications which we offer up unto
You, O Lord our God, as in this particular time of this holy
service. Those whom we remember at all times and those
who are in the thoughts of each one of us. Let their
remembrance-which is now being made-be to them a firm
shield; prevailing against all afflictions of the devils and
the counsel of evil men.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Deacon: Worship God in fear and trembling.

Prayer of The Waters, The Plants, And The Airs

Priest:
Graciously accord, O Lord, the air of heaven, the fruits of
the earth, the waters of the rivers, the seeds, the herbs,
and the plants of the field this year, bless them.
Deacon:
Pray for the air of heaven, the fruits of earth, the rising of
the waters of the rivers, the seeds, the herbs and the
plants of the field, that Christ our God may bless them,
bring them to perfection in peace without harm, and
forgive us our sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy, Lord have mercy.
PRIEST:
Raise them to their measure according to Your grace.
Give joy to the face of the earth. May Its furrows be
abundantly watered and its fruits be plentiful. Prepare it
for sowing and harvesting. Manage our lives as deemed
fit. Bless the crown of the year with Your goodness for the
sake of the poor of Your people, the widow, the orphan,
the traveler, the stranger, and for the sake of us all who
entreat You and seek Your Holy Name. For the eyes of
every one wait upon You, for You give them their food in
due season.

Deal with us according to Your goodness, O You who
gives food to all flesh. Fill our hearts with joy and
gladness, that we too, having sufficiency in every thing
may abound in every good deed.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.

[Adversary2Arabs]

I say we kill all the Copts for their racist prayers!!!!!!
(ADMIN: This is SARCASM and not an INCITMENT TO KILL - thanks)

[Ezra]

Woow. Haifa, look what I found!

http://www.copts.net/index.asp

It seems that your rotten smell is coming up more and more!

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
I say we kill all the Copts for their racist prayers!!!!!!
(ADMIN: This is SARCASM and not an INCITMENT TO KILL - thanks)

Don't worry! Muslims in Egypt are already doing a great job!

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Ezra


:D :D

Don't worry! Muslims in Egypt are already doing a great job!
Well I'm glad SOMEONE is purifing the world!!

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs

Well I'm glad SOMEONE is purifing the world!!

Purifing the world from what exactly?

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
I say we kill all the Copts for their racist prayers!!!!!!
(ADMIN: This is SARCASM and not an INCITMENT TO KILL - thanks)

Racist?

[elke]

Originally posted by Ezra


Racist?

Not to put words into anyone's mouth, but I think A2A is being sarcastic... :)

[Ezra]

Originally posted by elke


Not to put words into anyone's mouth, but I think A2A is being sarcastic... :)

I thought so till he sent his second message:

Well I'm glad SOMEONE is purifing the world!!

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Ezra


I thought so till he sent his second message:



It was a continuation of sarcasm. Elke is correct. I thought it was obvious so I didnt both repeating myself.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs


It was a continuation of sarcasm. Elke is correct. I thought it was obvious so I didnt both repeating myself.

:D :D

Ok, I guess people like Haifa made me lose my sense of understanding humor!

So, that makes us all waiting for his "rotten" replies if he still dares to appear! Hahahahah

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Ezra


:D :D

Ok, I guess people like Haifa made me lose my sense of understanding humor!

So, that makes us all waiting for his "rotten" replies if he still dares to appear! Hahahahah

:) Ya, I was thinking the same thing.

[Haifa]

yet another example of coptic spitefullness.

lets get to the points of ezra since I recognize most of them even though I have never been to egypt.


But before doing this I would like to express my amazement at Ezra's ability to use quotes and present arguments, even though most of them are stupid. When we were talking about history and alexandria all he did was quote and then say "hahahahaha." Again, coptic mentality.

Saying that they control the medicine industry sounds very similar to the sayings: Jews control America; Jews own all the banks; Jews control the World; etc.? You may be right, but I haven't the least idea.

No what happens is that coptic teachers in coptic communities used to give students high grades they do not deserve. This is why until 1960, most university students were coptic!! In other words, in a coptic school, half of the students would get over 90. How? coptic teachers would be giving free marks to coptics so that they can easily get into university!! This is what they call the "spirit of cooporation."

This is why most university students were coptic! and the tragedy continued even in universities!!

This was ended by Jamal Nassir who established al Azhar university. In al azhar university, coptics can still get there, but all students have to finish an extra year of islamic studies, something most coptics refused to do. This way, Jamal Nasser created a balance.


Haifa, but it's not just that: this "gratefulness" talk is rather disturbing. Tell me something: are they Egyptian? Do they look different, eat different foods (other than pork), speak different language? If so, why should they be grateful? And for what exactly? And to whom?

No. they look the same speak the same language and eat the same food. They should not be greatful to anyone except to their country. But when you attack 90% of the citizens of your country, it says something about you.

What coptics basically want is the annihlation of 90% muslims so that they can have there little country.

Again, you can use the Israeli arabs comparison.


back to ezra to expose his lies once again!


Can you please tell us about the Kosh events in 2000 and El Zawya el Hamra events, or maybe Abo Qorqas, or you know what, just tell us about Abo senbo events? How come than the overall death toll for all these events (according to the Religion freedom organization) was 750 Copts and 8 Muslims.

I once again have been able to catch you. When you someone has to lie to support his cause it tells something. In the alkosh events, only 21 coptics died. They were not killed by the government or something, but rather, it was the result of clashes between FARMERS. Now what I want to know is: how did this number become 750? from 21 to 750? WoW!!


Now before saying anything I want to know where in the living heck did you get the 750 number?


Minority? I thought they were the original extension of ancient Egyptians. Can you please shed some light on the origin of Copts? Are they originally Egyptians? When did they come/appear in Egypt?

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!


Can you please tell us how many Coptic:
1) In the Parlimant?
2) As a minister?
3) As a university professor/dean/presisdent?
4) With a rank of "general" in both the army and the police?
5) In the medicine industry?



I cant. Can you?

The important thing is that they are in all of what you mentioned except "minister."

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.


Oh, you mean the Muslims who came from the desert knowing nothing about anything (except f*** goats of course) were feeding the Copts who had one of the most beautiful/fruitful/civilized countries at that time?

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.



Wooow. You look like you lived in Egypt for a long time. Can you give us some examples of this hate? Have you ever been to Egypt before in the first place?

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!



Can you give us examples (or maybe some links) about how they speak bad about Egypt? Or whether they speak bad about Muslims or Egypt?

muslims of egyt are the majority. To make things easier, wanting a christian egypt by annihlating the majority is like when an arab israeli goes "death to the jews" then turns and says "but I love israel!!!!!." again, hypocrites.

I thought they HAVE to be citizens. Arent's they the original people in Egypt? Isn't it the Arabs who invaded them? Again, can you please tell us how many Coptic are there in the Parlimant?

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!


Betray? You mean the torturing of Muslims to the Christians in Egypt? How about you read the International Human Rights report about Christian treating in Egypt.

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

Let's see the rotten Islamic lies of Haifa crashes when we read the what the Copts say in their prayers. Haifa, if you are still not shy to appear once again after you dirty smell came out, then we will love to hear your comments!

I am not muslim! I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot. The difference between me and you is that before saying something, I do my research. Probably in the coptic soceity these things are not applied and you are supposed to accept whatever lies you are told!


Prayer of the King

Priest:
[Remember, O Lord] the ruler of our land, Your servant....
Deacon:
Pray that Christ our God, grant us mercy and compassion
before the mighty rulers, and incline their hearts with
goodness towards us at all times, and forgive us our sins.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.
Priest:
Keep him in peace, Justice and might, subdue unto him
all nations that may desire war for all that is prosperous to
us. Speak in his heart for the peace of Your one only holy
Catholic and apostolic church. Grant .him to think
peacefully of us and of Your Holy Name, so that we also
may live a calm and orderly life, and we may exist in
every godliness and virtue through You.
Congregation:
Lord have mercy.


.........etc

What does this have to do with anything? Do you seriously still believe in a god who died in a stick? This sounds more like a dinner recepie than a god :D

[Adversary2Arabs]

That was the longest post I've ever seen. Seriously. Hehe.

[Haifa]

yea. I shoulda divided the points in two different posts.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Haifa
yea. I shoulda divided the points in two different posts.

I don't mind, I was just saying it was the longest I've seen. :)

[elke]

Haifa, you can't be serious! This is the most prejudiced exchange I have seen on this forum yet! You take the cake even from Faisal1! :eek:

[Haifa]

Adversay2Arabs:

Well this thread was not about coptics!!

It started about a speech of Compaq and HP CEO, but Ezra could not stop him self from jumping in a post that was not aimed at him, and diverting the subject!

He just cant stand seeing anything good about the arab/islamic ancient civilization (this tells you something)


Myself I have no idea how I allowed myself to be dragged into this. But it was fun :)

Anyways there is an old saying that goes like this "do not argue with an idiot because he will drag you to his level and beat you with this experience" :D

but luckily he did not have any experience :eek:

[Haifa]

elke yes. I realize this. I just could not stop myself after reading all his threads in this forum and his personal grudge. Even Jews who are at war with the arabs are not as spiteful as coptics are!!

Anyways, I will not come back to this thread again. I know that this will give Ezra the chance to be the last one to respond but o well. If I do not end this now I know that he never will.

From my experience in this forum, it is easy to have a rational debate with Jews especially

1- Israelis
2- Russian Jews

without having to resort to what I did.

I apologize to all members of this forum if the posts above offended them, and to you elke.

[elke]

All right, why can't we agree that all the world cultures, including the Arab, Jewish, Coptic, Native American, African, - and so on and so forth - have contributed to this crazy, frightening, glorious, and sublime world we all live in?

Why can't we agree that the guilt for the "crazy" and "frightening" parts, as well as the credit for the "glorious" and "sublime", is to be shared by the self-same various cultures who contributed to it?

It really isn't hard, and requires only a minimal effort on everyone's part. But it could make literally a world of difference - our world!

[Ezra]

This is most stupid reply I have ever seen. It's VERY obvious that you know nothing about Egypt or Copts because what you wrote is simply "junk"!

No what happens is that coptic teachers in coptic communities used to give students high grades they do not deserve. This is why until 1960, most university students were coptic!! In other words, in a coptic school, half of the students would get over 90. How? coptic teachers would be giving free marks to coptics so that they can easily get into university!! This is what they call the "spirit of cooporation."

This is why most university students were coptic! and the tragedy continued even in universities!!

This is sooooooooo funny and stupid. I don't know how stupid do you think the reader of this forum! First of all, can you mention the name of one of the so called "Coptic communities"??????????????? In the whole history of Egypt there hasn't been anything called "Coptic community" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Coptic teachers giving Coptic students high grades???????????????????? Who is the idiot who believe that???????? And why would Muslim students won't complaint in a country dominated by Muslims?????? And why won't Muslim teachers give Muslim students high grades as well???????? And why won't Muslim teachers give Coptic students low grades?????????? And this also tells how stupid and ignorant you are. Because in Egypt entering the university is based ONLY on last year exams. There nothing called "mid semester" grades or anything in the general certificate year (grade 12)! It's only one exam. And No ONE knows who is going to grade whose paper! Actually your paper can be graded by a teacher in the south of Egypt!

This was ended by Jamal Nassir who established al Azhar university. In al azhar university, coptics can still get there, but all students have to finish an extra year of islamic studies, something most coptics refused to do. This way, Jamal Nasser created a balance.

Haaaaaaaaaaaaa? This is completely NONSENSE. Al-Azhar university has been in Egypt since the Muslim invasion to Egypt 1000 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And everyone in Egypt knows that Coptic can't enter this university. And this has ALWAYS caused problems since this university is funded by taxes, and Copts HAS ALWAYS complained that if they pay tax then they SHOULD be allowed to enter the Azhar! This has been an issue since Muhammad Ali 150 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!
See how idiot you are????????????

I once again have been able to catch you. When you someone has to lie to support his cause it tells something. In the alkosh events, only 21 coptics died. They were not killed by the government or something, but rather, it was the result of clashes between FARMERS. Now what I want to know is: how did this number become 750? from 21 to 750? WoW!!

Now before saying anything I want to know where in the living heck did you get the 750 number?

Ok Ok.. Piont by point. Clashes between framers caused 21 Copts to die and 2 Muslims???????? Hmmmm.. Strange Clash ha??????
Now, go back and read my post you idiot. See what this 750 mean. Thanks for proving your stupidity.
By the way, you haven't commented on any of the other +20 "farmers clashes"!

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

Can you tell us why have Copts converted? Thank you.

I cant. Can you?

The important thing is that they are in all of what you mentioned except "minister."

TO ALL THE FORUM, PLEASE READ! HAIFA JUST WRITES ANYTHING AND THEN SAYS "I CAN'T". SEE WHO IS THE STUPID AND IGNORANT HERE?
AND GUESS WHAT? THERE IS A COPTIC MINISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HIS NAME IS BOUTROS BOUTROS GHALY. HE IS MINISTER OF FOREIGN COMMERCE.
HAIFA, I'M REALLY SO DISGUSTED FROM YOUR ROTTENESS, LIES AND IGNORANCE.

I THOUGHT YOU JUST SAID THEY CONTROL THE MEDICINE IN EGYPT? NOW YOU DON'T KNOW?

I THOUGHT YOU JUST SAID THEY ARE IN THE PARLIMANT IN EGYPT? NOW YOU DON'T KNOW?

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

NO COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE ANYONE TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I COMMENT ON THAT? HE DOESN'T "KNOW"!!!!!! HE NEVER BEEN THERE!!!!!!!! WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE??????????????????

muslims of egyt are the majority. To make things easier, wanting a christian egypt by annihlating the majority is like when an arab israeli goes "death to the jews" then turns and says "but I love israel!!!!!." again, hypocrites.

I asked for a link proving what he said! LOOK WHAT HE IS WRITING BACK!!!!!!!!!

I am not muslim!

Tsk Tsk Tsk.. now he is feeling ashame and denying his Islam! SHAME ON YOU!

I have also proven you to be a big liar

CAN'T STOP MYSELF FROM LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!

[Haifa]

sorry elke i cant resist

hmm... I am beginning to understand what Ezra is doing. He simply responds to what he can make up a lie about (such as the previous post) and leaves out what is so obvious that he cant make up a lie about. I, as opposed to this, respond to everything!

For that reason, I will repost what he did not respond to and then when he finishis responding to everything he "missed" I will proceed to respond to the previous post!

(yes!! yes!! It's fun I know it is)

Now can you please respond to these quotes that you missed in this thread? ALL OF THEM.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

quote:



4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

quote:






The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar


Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

_______________________________

Now can you answer these quotes so that we can proceed?

[Haifa]

you know what? I know you're gonna cry and say I did not answer the last post so I'll answer it and leave no argument to you!



This is sooooooooo funny and stupid. I don't know how stupid do you think the reader of this forum! First of all, can you mention the name of one of the so called "Coptic communities"??????????????? In the whole history of Egypt there hasn't been anything called "Coptic community" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

coptic community is a village or a region were coptics are assimilated!!



Coptic teachers giving Coptic students high grades???????????????????? Who is the idiot who believe that???????? And why would Muslim students won't complaint in a country dominated by Muslims?????? And why won't Muslim teachers give Muslim students high grades as well???????? And why won't Muslim teachers give Coptic students low grades?????????? And this also tells how stupid and ignorant you are.

You can complain on personal bases. You cant complain about "all schools." you understand? And about why muslim teachers wont do it, this shows your ignorance! you change something that is wrong by eliminating it not by telling everyone to do it so it becomes right!


Because in Egypt entering the university is based ONLY on last year exams. There nothing called "mid semester" grades or anything in the general certificate year (grade 12)! It's only one exam. And No ONE knows who is going to grade whose paper! Actually your paper can be graded by a teacher in the south of Egypt!
[quote]
yes, it is based on the final exam everywhere dummy. But you do know that in every classroom there is a supervisor dont you?


[quote]Haaaaaaaaaaaaa? This is completely NONSENSE. Al-Azhar university has been in Egypt since the Muslim invasion to Egypt 1000 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And everyone in Egypt knows that Coptic can't enter this university. And this has ALWAYS caused problems since this university is funded by taxes, and Copts HAS ALWAYS complained that if they pay tax then they SHOULD be allowed to enter the Azhar! This has been an issue since Muhammad Ali 150 years ago !!!!!!!!!!!
See how idiot you are????????????

You claim to be a coptic but do not know anything!! The azhar university never taught medicine, engineering, and other academic things! it only taught islam until recently! And al azhar university was also built by the Fatamites, dummy, not mohammed. 1000 years ago eh?

Why arent arab israelis complaining about the government funding orthodox schools?


Ok Ok.. Piont by point. Clashes between framers caused 21 Copts to die and 2 Muslims???????? Hmmmm.. Strange Clash ha??????
Now, go back and read my post you idiot. See what this 750 mean. Thanks for proving your stupidity.
By the way, you haven't commented on any of the other +20 "farmers clashes"!

Even if I count ALL OF THE THREE clashes. Can you prove your number? 750? cause I know its a lie!

Can you tell us why have Copts converted? Thank you.

Can you tell me why there are coptics who did not convert?

TO ALL THE FORUM, PLEASE READ! HAIFA JUST WRITES ANYTHING AND THEN SAYS "I CAN'T". SEE WHO IS THE STUPID AND IGNORANT HERE?
AND GUESS WHAT? THERE IS A COPTIC MINISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HIS NAME IS BOUTROS BOUTROS GHALY. HE IS MINISTER OF FOREIGN COMMERCE.
HAIFA, I'M REALLY SO DISGUSTED FROM YOUR ROTTENESS, LIES AND IGNORANCE.

I THOUGHT YOU JUST SAID THEY CONTROL THE MEDICINE IN EGYPT? NOW YOU DON'T KNOW?

I THOUGHT YOU JUST SAID THEY ARE IN THE PARLIMANT IN EGYPT? NOW YOU DON'T KNOW?
[quote]

you've got to realize that when he finds a point he "thinks" he can replies to, he goes wild with big fonts. First of all, Botrous Ghally retired years ago, dummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And is not there anymore!!!!!!!!! Bah. You did not make it this time! bad luck! Secondly, him being a minister proves my point: copts enjoy all freedoms. Even more than arab israelis who never get into the cabinet.


[quoteNO COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE ANYONE TELL ME WHAT SHOULD I COMMENT ON THAT? HE DOESN'T "KNOW"!!!!!! HE NEVER BEEN THERE!!!!!!!! WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE??????????????????

It is up to you not to comment.



CAN'T STOP MYSELF FROM LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!

yea, I can stop you either


____________________________


DO NOT FROGET TO RESPOND TO THE QUOTES IN THE PREVIOUS POST FIRST

[Ezra]

Haifa,

In all your dummy reply I couldn't find:

1) Number of Copts in the parliament since you mentioned that they are in the parliament.

2) How Copts control medicine in Egypt as you said?

3) Description of how in the Egyptian education system can allow someone to enter the university coz he knows the teacher?

4) A link to what you called "hate" from the Copts to Egypt?

5) A reply to well-known fact that Copts can't enter the Azhar?

6) Comments about El-Zawya El-Hamra events and masscare of Senbo...etc?

7) A reply to the fact that there IS a Coptic Minister, although you said there isn't?

8) From where do you know ANYTHING about Copts when you are not Egyptian and you haven't ever been to Egypt?

Please please don't run away now!

[Ezra]

Ha? Did you run away or trying to figure out any new rotten excuse for not replying?

[Haifa]

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

quote:



4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

quote:






The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar


Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

[Ezra]

What do you escape from my questions? Either you answer or go f*** a goat with your fellow Muslims.

Where is:

1) Number of Copts in the parliament since you mentioned that they are in the parliament.

2) How Copts control medicine in Egypt as you said?

3) Description of how in the Egyptian education system can allow someone to enter the university coz he knows the teacher?

4) A link to what you called "hate" from the Copts to Egypt?

5) A reply to well-known fact that Copts can't enter the Azhar?

6) Comments about El-Zawya El-Hamra events and masscare of Senbo...etc?

7) A reply to the fact that there IS a Coptic Minister, although you said there isn't?

8) From where do you know ANYTHING about Copts when you are not Egyptian and you haven't ever been to Egypt?

[Haifa]

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

quote:



4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

quote:






The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar


Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

[Ezra]

Hahahahahaha.. So you admit that you can't answer the questions and you were a liar?

Thanks so much!

[Haifa]

Yes, your questions are so hard. Now answer these.

Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

quote:



4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

quote:






The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar


Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

[elke]

Don't you guys get tired of re-posting same things over and over again? Do you ever get confused and post the other's posting by accident? :p

[Ezra]

Poor Haifa!

Because it wouldn't be a decent thing to do, I would have posted samples of the private messages I got about you!

The good thing is that you are now more shame to appear in the topics, which is nice since it gives us a break from your rotten words!

[Haifa]

Still waiting for an answer to these questions. Asking questions wont help.

You can only run away. But agian, what do you expect from someone whose ancestors were conquered 1400 years ago?

what am I going to expect from the sons of Jesus except insults. Again, isnt he the one who kicked the woman who asked him to forgive her and called her a female dog?


Oh, and by the way, why is it that all coptic priests never take a shower and never cut their hair? I mean, after 50 or 60 years, you begin to smell.


Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.

Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).

Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.

And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?

This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?

quote:



4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

quote:






The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar


Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.

Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN. He must be christian. Pagans do not work.

Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?

Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.

hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).

1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.

yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!

I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.

Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.

I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!

This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!

Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.

I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Haifa
Oh, and by the way, why is it that all coptic priests never take a shower and never cut their hair? I mean, after 50 or 60 years, you begin to smell.


Hurray! A new rotten lie added to the list!


Ok, infront of the whole forum, can you please tell us a source for your "rotten" piece of information about not taking a shower?

PLEASE ONCE PROVE THAT YOU ARE NOT A CHRONIC LIAR

[Haifa]

We're back to using coptic policies, ignore the quotes that prove you to be an ignorant fool, and picking one sentance and starting to cry. After all, you were not able to name a single coptic scientist, or were you? You made the horrendous claim that the library of Alexandria was destroyed by Amr, when this lie was invented by a coptic monk. Obviously, lying is a religious ritual.

By using the word "lie" or "liar" or "lying" in your post, you are harming yourself since a person reading one of these words would immediately recall your policy of deception, selective reponses, and most importantly, false claims regarding historical truths that otherwise cannot be argued.

I opened your profile and supposedly you are 30 years old. I do not doubt it. I mean, if the average intellegence of people who are 30 is that of yours, then no wonder the coptics have got a long way to go.


But since you picked the sentence about coptic priests not showering (and you know it's true), I challenge you to prove that they actually shower.

Proving that someone showers should not be hard, especially that it is the default position.

So, I urge you to provide any link, news article, or even book, and I will make sure that I buy it.

I challenge you to provide any novel, biography, auto biography, short story, or any kind of writing in which a coptic priest speaks of taking a shower.

I know that even though I'm not muslim, you'll turn and say "o no one can prove this not even muslims." Wrong, open Bukhari Book#2 page 540, and read the hadith "taking a shower and using siwak is favourable by god on friday." So to cut the long story short, do not try.

I'll post the quotes for another time, to keep the people of the forum reminded about your ignorance, lies, deception, and fear of facing irrefutable established facts.


quote:



Ezra says they stole what the coptics had, hahha. Ok, name me one coptic scientist or mathematician. I can name you thousqands of muslims who supposedly 'stole' stuff from the coptics, but can you name me one coptic whose 'stuff' was stolen? I think not.





quote:



Until this moment, coptics are still more backward than muslims. I will not get into coptic bashing now, however, though the

coptic religion already bashes itself, as in what happened to ((Barsoom)).





quote:



Again, you sound like an empty person, with only air inside, but no content. You could not name a single coptic scientist. Not

egyptian, not ancient egyptian, nothing. I said COPTIC, which means AFTER the rise of xianity, NOT before.





quote:



And by the way this is the case with all civilizations, you start where people stopped. You do not start from scratch! For

example, the western civilization is based in part in the islamic one. Does this mean there is no western civilization?





quote:



This shows your lack of education, if not idiocy, again. Islam was NEVER based in saudi arabia. It started there, but soon muslims

moved away. In fact, 30 years after the establishment of islam, there was no one in saudi arabia! Now you've got to understand that islam != does NOT equal saudi arabia. Most Egyptians are muslim, perssians are muslim, and even some romans are muslim! Does it make sense now?





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4) If the Muslims are that interested in science and human civilization, why did they burn the great Library of Alexandria by Amr Ibn El-Aas?






This is a lie invented by coptics, and ALL historians agree on this. The story was invented by a guy called Gregory Bar Hebræus.
Here is a uote from a website, then the website

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The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library talking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.






http://www.bede.org.uk/library.htm#omar





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Now what I would like to concentrate on is the fact that you lied about the Library of Alexandria, and you probably knew that it


was a lie. This, again, shows that your goal is to attack the islamic civliation no matter what it takes.





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Now ill go back to the coptics.. name me ONE coptic scientist who did something of a VALUE. Not egyptian, COPTIC CHRISTIAN.

He must be christian. Pagans do not work.





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Oh, have you been to the university of texas? a friend is a chemistry professor there. they have a HUGE statue of a arab

scientist there. Can you tell me why?

Oh, and since you know computers, where does the word "algorithm" come from?





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Back to ezra: you have proven that you have nothing to provide. Since you cant name one coptic even though you are

admittidly one, and since you have been exposed to be a liar (regarding the library of alexandria) and an irrational person who attacks without having facts backing him up, there is no point of continuing this conversation.





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hmm.. what is laughable is that I responded to all questions + provided a 200 names list + shown that the library of alexandria

was not burnt, and this troll still has the audacity to show his face in this thread, and start acting strangely. (The "hahahahahahaha"s are just a symptom, by the way).





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1- you have not heard of the names because you are uneducated. Others have and because what the provided has been

expanded by other people. We studty the expansions rather than the foundation, because now it is considered too simple for us.

2- What happened? well the Romans are the ones who destroyed it!!

3- I just told you, the romans destroyed it. But coptics do not want to admit that their religion destroyed one of the greatest libraries in the world.

So they start MAKING UP stories about the muslim invasion..etc.

WHat you will just read is being TAUGHT AT UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. The story about moslems was invented by a coptic in the 7th century and it is not credible at all.





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yes the copts are egyptians, and so are the muslims! Contrary to what you want to believe, muslim egyptians are also an

extension of ancient egypt and they themselves were coptics. When Islam came, they simply converted!





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I do not know about general in the army. But again, I would not be suprised if there were no christian generals. Arent you the

one who said IN THIS FORUM that 90% of COPTICS SUPPORT ISRAEL? In other words TRAITORS to there counry wich was at war with Israel for 30 years. Would you allow such traitors to hold high ranks in the military?

THERE ARE NO ARAB GENERALS IN ISRAEL. THIS IS UNDERSTANDABLE. SAME APPLIES TO COPTICS!!

What the coptics want is democracy their way. For example, they want to change the constitution so that the candidates of parties in coptic areas have to be coptic! this IS democracy. NOT.





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Are you trying to say the all muslims in egypt came from saudi arabia and that the only egyptians are coptics? Are you trying to

say that only coptics are 'true' egyptians ? If yes then heh.





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I do not need to go to egypt because they are hypocrite. When they are in egypt they are all good but when they go to the

west, like your self, they start speaking! hypocrites!





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This only shows that they are not being descriminated against. and all the stuff about arab invasion is b/s. Yes, egypt was

conquered, but the muslim egyptians are egyptians. They merely converted to islam.

This is like saying: anyone who becomes muslim is not egyptian anymore!!





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Well actually everyone is being tortured in egypt not only christian extremists. Even muslim extremists are tortured. During the

time of Gamal Nasser, thousands of muslim extremists were killed. It's all fair.

Also, there is no such thing as treating. It is treatment.





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I have also proven you to be a big liar, especially when it came to the library of alexandria and whatnot.

[Ezra]

Hahahahahaha..

That's sooooooooooo funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haifa claims that coptic preists don't shower, and when I ask him for a prove for his information, he tells me you prove that they shower! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Haifa, you are really soooo pathetic! I love the way you prove how liar you are more and more!! Keep the good job!!

The only thing good about you is that you keep us laughing!

I LOVE HOW MUSLIMS THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Doesn't Islam says "El Bayyena Ala man Edda'a"? (i.e. the prove is required from who calims)

[Intellectualme]

learned from the other. No on was born intelligent, or extremely genius. Humans learn and progrss from the help of one another. What Haifa is saying is that Islam too has invented a great mnay things that later lead to great many things that we now use. Not that theu copied from the Greeks etc, but they progressed it and built upon it. In the Islamic Empire, Mulisms Jews and Christians were all part of the intelelctual envirionment. That is why Carla Fiona said that. Everyone , with relgious diversity adn there own gifts came together to create and progress the world in a time when Europe was in the dark ages, and their was great intolerance there. This only reminds us how much we need one another, adn that give credit where credit needs to be given. Lets not cheat ourselves either.

Example: Invented Algebra., indentified diseases, wrote medical texts that were used in Europe for 900 years, Invented surgical instruments, identifieded and gave doses for rabies, did extensive hearbal medicine books(n the hundreds) created elaborate pharmacies, created the world's first University, extentive discovery in animal anatomy, invented the subject of Histology, progressed socialogy greatly, wrote some of hsitories finest encyclopedias, invented alcoholic distillation, improved water mechanisms, Pioneers in Optics(whenever yu get glasses , thank the Muslims), and many more. These subjects were then heavily translated and sent to the Europeans, who later improved upon that.

The Islamic Empire; Included the Christians and the Jews, did the best translatrions and documentations, that is still undisputable, and their records are still in the Bristish museum to this very day.

[Mediocrates]

Nobody questions their intellectual or technological history - it's the societal values that we wonder about. After all they did and do great science in communist Russia and China but they failed as countries.