Obama advisor: US Jews hinder peace

[Yala]

WASHINGTON - General Merrill "Tony" McPeak, Senator Barack Obama's military advisor and co-chair of his presidential campaign is a longtime anti-Israeli critic who has slammed Israel harshly during his career, according to an inquiry by conservative American media outlets.

McPeak, who served as the chief of staff or the US Air Force before retiring in 1994, made headlines over the past week after accusing former President Bill Clinton of McCarthyism. Yet as it turns out, over the years he has criticized Israel for failing to withdraw to the 1967 borders and charged American Jews were preventing American pressure that would lead to a Mideast peace agreement.

.....

In an interview with The Oregonion about five years ago, McPeak argued that the influence exerted by American Jews is responsible for the lack of progress in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. According to the general the problem was New York and Miami.

"We have a large vote here in favor of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it," he said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3523709,00.html

[redcake]

Israpundit is uncovering a good amount of evidence against Obama in regards to Israel ....worth taking a look.

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/

[KettleWhistle]

Ok, but the question here is really Obama vs. Hitlery. Neither is good news. But is Obama really worse? Do we really want to go back to the Clinton era of constant demonization of Israel and the U.S. tying Israel's hands regarding anti-terrorism activities?

[wellofvow]

Ok, but the question here is really Obama vs. Hitlery. Neither is good news. But is Obama really worse? Do we really want to go back to the Clinton era of constant demonization of Israel and the U.S. tying Israel's hands regarding anti-terrorism activities?

I agree. BOTH Democrats in the running are bad for Israel.

Therefore, as an Israeli who is also an American citizen, I am voting for McCain.

There is no law that I know of that says that Jews HAVE to vote Democrat/for a black/for a woman.....

[NewsGuy]

Ok, but the question here is really Obama vs. Hitlery. Neither is good news. But is Obama really worse? Do we really want to go back to the Clinton era of constant demonization of Israel and the U.S. tying Israel's hands regarding anti-terrorism activities?
On the domestic agenda, it's close. But, between the the two, Obama is definitely worse from a foreign policy perspective.

In addition to Obama's Nation of Islam connections and other racist, anti-Semitic advisors, there's Obama's direct connections to terrorism supporting groups, and his personal anti-Semitic bias (now publicized this week).

Then again, to Obama, I guess I'm just a "typical White person" (his own words).

[Abital]

Ok, but the question here is really Obama vs. Hitlery. Neither is good news. But is Obama really worse? Do we really want to go back to the Clinton era of constant demonization of Israel and the U.S. tying Israel's hands regarding anti-terrorism activities?

No we don't, but please don't think Obama's blatantly anti-Israel advisors were chosen by him nor was his 'Nation of Islam' Afro-Centric Church of 20 years chosen by him by accident. In other words, I believe it is clear that Obama has shown us his foreign policy will be much worse than Hillary's.

After George Bush, I really thought that ANY democrat would have an easy time reclaiming the presidency. I do not believe that now. John McCain will be our next president and I believe Joseph Lieberman, Senator from Connecticut, will be given a place in McCain's administration FWIW.

[Mediocrates]

His co chair a former General, Merrill McPeak, just announced that NY and Florida Jews are the reason there's no peace in the mideast. It's in all the major English language Israeli newspapers.

Liberals are so desperate to love their new Messiah there's no limit to the excuses they'll make. Will Obama say again he didn't know or does not endorse? At what point is it clear that either he's a bigot or he has no idea what's going on around him?

[Yala]

Liberals are so desperate to love their new Messiah there's no limit to the excuses they'll make. Will Obama say again he didn't know or does not endorse? At what point is it clear that either he's a bigot or he has no idea what's going on around him?

It's very clear. That's why all the liberals who hate themselves, America and Israel and the media is so in love with him.

[NewsGuy]

I saw this comment from "Nechama in NJ" posted in reaction to Rosner opinion piece in Haaretz, in which Obama says he "disagrees" with McPeak:

"Do you get the feeling that Obama is spending way too much time having to distance himself from the statements of his advisors and pastor? Doesn`t that speak volumes about his judgment - or lack thereof - for chosing these people in the first place? My rabbi never uttered a single anti-American, racist comment in all the years I attended his synagogue. If he had, I would have left and never returned. None of my friends are anti-American, anti-Israel, pro-hamas, racists. Obama can`t say that. And that`s why he will not get my vote."

Very well said in ight of Obama's constantly ducking the fallout from his own chosen team of advisors.

[redcake]

It speaks volumes about hid judgement, and his lack of integrity assembling a platform.

As for pondering who will be more damaging to Israel, I think Obama is more likely to try and one up the Clinton's or make some Clintonesque moves so he can be the guy who "brought peace to the Middle East". Meanwhile, I think the Clinton's would have to put up a front like they were picking up where they left off, but they wouldn't want to get too involved again after the lefties took Arafats story at face value and branded Bill branded a liar.

[Mediocrates]

The thing is, he would be better off just speaking his mind and coming clean. If this is what he thinks then this is what he thinks. His Move-One/DailyKos acolytes feel the same way anyway. It's not a mystery.

[redcake]

I agree. If you were to tell the average Obama supporter that he has a secret anti-Israel stance, they'd be thrilled.

Obama die hards are bested on by Ron Paul supporters. They seem to miss the whole issue of integrity entirely, or that if he's double talking on race relations, or Israel, he could also be double talking on the one issue they care about.

I guess these nutjobs in Obama's camp believe their own conspiracy talk and really do think they have to pander to a Jewish vote.

[martin28a]

WASHINGTON - General Merrill "Tony" McPeak, Senator Barack Obama's military advisor and co-chair of his presidential campaign is a longtime anti-Israeli critic who has slammed Israel harshly during his career, according to an inquiry by conservative American media outlets.

McPeak, who served as the chief of staff or the US Air Force before retiring in 1994, made headlines over the past week after accusing former President Bill Clinton of McCarthyism. Yet as it turns out, over the years he has criticized Israel for failing to withdraw to the 1967 borders and charged American Jews were preventing American pressure that would lead to a Mideast peace agreement.

.....

In an interview with The Oregonion about five years ago, McPeak argued that the influence exerted by American Jews is responsible for the lack of progress in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. According to the general the problem was New York and Miami.

"We have a large vote here in favor of Israel. And no politician wants to run against it," he said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3523709,00.html

I think any Jews would immigrate to EU, if in Israel is too much trouble, look here

i think not all Israel people accept the politics right now

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1273065,00.html

[Yala]

I agree. If you were to tell the average Obama supporter that he has a secret anti-Israel stance, they'd be thrilled.


Is it a secret?

[Yala]

I think any Jews would immigrate to EU, if in Israel is too much trouble, look here

i think not all Israel people accept the politics right now

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1273065,00.html

With all the $$$ the EU is giving to the terrorists I'm not surprised the Jews want to leave.

[martin28a]

With all the $$$ the EU is giving to the terrorists I'm not surprised the Jews want to leave.

Yes this is a point in EU politics i dont like too

[farmall]

BTW McPeak was WIDELY loathed during his USAF career.

Composite Wings (where aircraft mixes that didn't share logistics support were based together because they were expected to deploy together even though they didn't FIGHT together as packages once deployed because they had different missions!) were among the stupidities implemented on his watch.

A "McPeak endorsement" to me, as a USAF vet, is a huge negative. I wouldn't want him as a dogcatcher.

[redcake]

Is it a secret?

According to his official position, he continues to describe himself as a "staunch supporter" of Israel.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/#onisrael

[N. Portman]

Israpundit is uncovering a good amount of evidence against Obama in regards to Israel ....worth taking a look.

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/


Some hateful stuff on there. Some of it can't be proven.

[N. Portman]

Ok, but the question here is really Obama vs. Hitlery. Neither is good news. But is Obama really worse? Do we really want to go back to the Clinton era of constant demonization of Israel and the U.S. tying Israel's hands regarding anti-terrorism activities?

Why is it OK on this site to associate a US politician with the worst and most genocidal madman of all time, when me using the b-word about a hateful woman is wrong? I think it'sa very tasteless to insult someone like they, especially if you know that Mrs. Clinton isn't a genocidal madman hell bent on murdering millions of people in gas chambers. Do you feel no shame?

[N. Portman]

In addition to Obama's Nation of Islam connections and other racist, anti-Semitic advisors, there's Obama's direct connections to terrorism supporting groups, and his personal anti-Semitic bias (now publicized this week).

Got some proof that Obama hates Jews, or did you just write that because Obama's father was a Muslim and it just sounds cool to throw that word around at non-Jews?

[N. Portman]

With all the $$$ the EU is giving to the terrorists I'm not surprised the Jews want to leave.

It's got nothing to do with supporting terrorists, it's got to do with keeping Gazans from starving.

[redcake]

It's got nothing to do with supporting terrorists, it's got to do with keeping Gazans from starving.

Assuming the Palestinians eat bombs, then sure.

[Reffo]

As a non American, I am intrigued by the machinations of the two Democratic presidential nominees. The Obama camp seems to be pushing the idea that the Super Delegates should not be the ones to decide the outcome of the Democratic nomination. They say, that unless the Superdelegates follow the trend of the grassroot voters, they would disenfranchise the voters.

My question then is this: What's the use of having Superdelegates if they would just act as a rubber stamp? What is the logic behind such a redundant set of delegates who would not be allowed to exercise their free will and their own judgement? Such ideas certainly have me wondering, does anyone else feel the same way, or is it just me?

[farmall]

The Superdelegates are a way Party leaders can agree to override member decisions they strongly disagree with. For example, victory must be had at any price, and the virtue of a candidate matters little if he/she does not win. The Democratic Party solution was Superdelegates.

Of course, it would be delightful if the Dem leadership stabbed Obama in the back and chose the Hildebeast instead.

[Reffo]

Thanks farmall, that was my impression too and in establishing that system, surely the Democrats had exactly that in mind. So IMO, the Obama camp is out of order and are disingeuous in demanding that the Superdelegates MUST follow the general voters. Surely, if the shoe would be in the other foot and their candidate would be trailing (slightly), they would be the first ones to demand that the Superdelegates should be allowed to vote according to their own consciences. As it is, that's exactly what should happen now too. And if they won't like the outcome, they should vote to change the system for future democratic nominations but for now, they should cool it and allow their own system to function as intended. Anything else is just plain hypocrisy!

[wellofvow]

Oh, it's not as deep as "hypocrisy".... it is the indulgent, infantile American Left that always cries "Victim!" when it doesn't get its way. It's the puerile belief that an "evenhanded policy" is the solution to a situation of aggression versus defence. It is the mindless acceptance of the Big Lie without doing independent thinking. It is the rationalization that murder is acceptable if you are "frustrated".

Obama says nothing of actual substance. He drops names of former presidents instead of laying out his own foreign policy. I have seen no ability of Obama to get into the shoes of the "other" - as in his stunning insensitivity in his statement of purported support for the people of Sderot, when he was apparently unable to bring himself to wish peace for Israeli children without HAVING TO mention Palestinian children also. Never mind that the children of Sderot sing songs of peace, while the children of Gaza chant "Death to the Jews!" The man is an ostrich, who does not hear either the Palestinians or his beloved adopted uncle, Jeremiah Wright.

He and his supporters are almost certainly depending on mob rule, being able to pull and play the race card at will, and intimidation in order to secure the Democratic nomination. These tactics have served him quite well so far, haven't they?

[N. Portman]

Assuming the Palestinians eat bombs, then sure.

Maybe you could prove that the EU sends bombs to Hamas?

[redcake]

I don't think Obama really even needed the race card until the issue of his church came up...and that's only because it's a Black separatist church.

I think eventually people will realize if you have one African parent who you never really knew, you're raised in Hawaii by white people, and then had a privileged ivy education.... and then you join a black church, marry a woman with militant views, and change your name back to some ethnic sounding name, that it's more then likely you didn't grow up experiencing racial bias at all and just adopted it in adulthood while overcompensating. He's mixed race, and there's a difference.

[bararallu]

Maybe you could prove that the EU sends bombs to Hamas?

Maybe you need to prove they do not. Do due diligence and search on this very forum and you shall find some evidence that yeah, UN and EU (and sometimes US and even Israeli) funded efforts go right into the coffers of the great kleptocracy (PA-PLO) or the greater Jihad against the vermin Jews (PLO +Hamas etc). And thanks for caring for the cannon fodder (aka "Palestinians"); may I recommend some immediate letter writing to the Ayatollahs and the the "King" of Saudi Arabia. luck with that.

[andak01]

I think eventually people will realize if you have one African parent who you never really knew, you're raised in Hawaii by white people, and then had a privileged ivy education.... and then you join a black church, marry a woman with militant views, and change your name back to some ethnic sounding name, that it's more then likely you didn't grow up experiencing racial bias at all and just adopted it in adulthood while overcompensating. He's mixed race, and there's a difference.

There is a generation gap between Wright and Obama. Wright knew Jim Crow laws, Obama didn't. When Wright says the white man runs the world, he's correct, according to the facts forty years ago. My father once travelling through Alabama saw a black man step into a mudpuddle rather than walk on the same level as a white man. Fortunately, we've (whites and blacks) come a long ways. And Wright hasn't.

[redcake]

Oh come on, why bother even trying to explain away why people like wright say crazy things? He's a well educated man, who uses phrases like "ridin' durty" .... he's got Common freestyling their New Years sermons...he's a Reverand of a huge congregation preaching conspiracies which are irresponsible.

Sure we can look the other way, just the way we tend to when crazy old White people are stuck in their bigoted ways, but none of this applies to Obama and his misrepresentations, or excuses his pattern of associations.

I think many Black men from Obama's generation do feel very in touch with Jim Crow racism even if they missed out on it by a generation...and a lot of them have adopted some strange paranoid theories as a result, some justified, some not. The thing is, that whole Black man's experience in America thing sounds pretty foreign to Barry Obama's biography, and it only proves he doesn't meet our expectations of a unifying, racially mixed, colorblind President.

[Mil]

What should the Jews feel then? All white men are Nazis?

[wellofvow]

When Wright says the white man runs the world, he's correct, according to the facts forty years ago.

Well, I have a newsflash for you to think about. I, a white Jewish Israeli woman, say that the Black Moslem African men run the world right now through the United Nations, THE primo and only "world organization". The evidence for this is prolific.

My father once travelling through Alabama saw a black man step into a mudpuddle rather than walk on the same level as a white man.

"Once"? Not impressed. And when did this happen? What do you think this black man was afraid that white man would do to him? Kill him in public? I really seriously doubt that.

BUT I'd be willing to bet serious money, even a kidney, that Wright supports the "right" of Palestinians to strap on explosives and set them off next to families eating in an Israeli restaurant. Also bet that Wright cheered when thousands of Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.

Perhaps you could make a case for Wright damning all whites because he is still living, in his mind, in the world of Jim Crow. However, this clergyman damns himself by making Israel / Jews into the Black man's "black man". Wright, in his bitterness or whatever, instead of embracing the Christian dictum of forgiveness, turning the other cheek - and supposedly Wright is a Christian, right? - he has not only not forgiven whites, but he has singled out the white Jews for his most venomous bile.


Fortunately, we've (whites and blacks) come a long ways. And Wright hasn't.

Correct. As a matter of fact, as far as I'm concerned, Wright has turned his church into a chapter of the new-track Ku Klux Klan. The KKK was always against both blacks and Jews, but attacked blacks because of their greater vulnerability. Nowadays, it is the Jew who is the more vulnerable among the whites.

Yes, this makes Wright, his church, and anyone who follows or defends the church racists. The fact that they are black does not matter a twit. Blacks, once victims of racism, seem not to have a problem turning into racists themselves.

So, yes, I understand that Wright is stuck in a time-wrap, but no, I have no sympathy for him. Instead of being a true Christian and empathetic, he took the easier path for a victim and became the bully.

[andak01]

Well, I have a newsflash for you to think about. I, a white Jewish Israeli woman, say that the Black Moslem African men run the world right now through the United Nations, THE primo and only "world organization". The evidence for this is prolific.

The UN doesn't run the world. But it's interesting that you even think that.

"Once"? Not impressed. And when did this happen? What do you think this black man was afraid that white man would do to him? Kill him in public? I really seriously doubt that.

Probably 50 years ago. And yes, blacks at that time were killed in public lynchings, though the practice was beginning to wane by then.

BUT I'd be willing to bet serious money, even a kidney, that Wright supports the "right" of Palestinians to strap on explosives and set them off next to families eating in an Israeli restaurant. Also bet that Wright cheered when thousands of Jews were ethnically cleansed from Gaza.

You can save your kidney and your speculation until such a time as what Wright says matters. If Obama's condemnation of Wrights statements is sincere then what he says doesn't matter. And if it isn't, that scandal will certainly keep Obama out of the Whitehouse, in which case it won't matter. Either way, Wrights star has set.


Perhaps you could make a case for Wright damning all whites because he is still living, in his mind, in the world of Jim Crow. However, this clergyman damns himself by making Israel / Jews into the Black man's "black man".

I don't want to "make a case" for anything he says. Clearly it's wrong and off base. He's out of touch with the way things are.

So, yes, I understand that Wright is stuck in a time-wrap, but no, I have no sympathy for him. Instead of being a true Christian and empathetic, he took the easier path for a victim and became the bully.

Why should you have sympathy for him?

[wellofvow]

The UN doesn't run the world. But it's interesting that you even think that.


Probably 50 years ago. And yes, blacks at that time were killed in public lynchings, though the practice was beginning to wane by then.


Why should you have sympathy for him?

The UN Security Council decides on sanctions, allows countries that shelter, aid and abet terrorists to be a freaking MEMBER of the Security Council, the numerous committees perpetuate aid Palestinian "refugees" unto the 4th generation but allow genocide in 3 or is it 4 different African countries, it has taken 60 years and Israel was finally allowed to be on a UN committee (forget what), hate and bashing resolutions concentrated on Israel while Saudis stone women accused of adultery, Egypt practices female genital mutilation, Afghani women denied education, Palestinian "honor killings"........

Blacks were NOT lynched "in public" 50 years ago, your father misremembers. I am over 60, remember, and was brought up in a typical liberal, Democratic, Jewish home that was VERY aware of the civil rights movement.

No "sympathy", that was just term of speech. You implied that I should "understand where he is coming from". And yes, I understand that, but also understand that this is not a free pass to be a racist himself. Americans have become terrific about handing out free passes.

You've heard the joke, the one about the guy who murders both his parents, and asks for mercy from the court because he's an orphan? THAT kind of free pass.....

[redcake]

Blacks were NOT lynched "in public" 50 years ago, your father misremembers.

Uh...yes, yes they were. There were lynchings in the 60's.... hell, there have been lynchings in the past 10 years. When someone is chained by their neck to the back of a car, that's a public lynching.

[wellofvow]

Uh...yes, yes they were. There were lynchings in the 60's.... hell, there have been lynchings in the past 10 years. When someone is chained by their neck to the back of a car, that's a public lynching.

"Hanging / lynching / burning in public" means that the population is notified that this event is taking place and they are invited to attend.

What you wrote above, yes, sure, that's "public", but then ALL murders, muggings, robbery, rape, arson, in short, all CRIME is "public".

Back in merrye olde Englande, executions of traitors was public - the public was invited. The victim was publicly paraded through the streets, drums were sounded, and everyone knew where to gather at the execution spot.

hmmmm, doesn't this remind you of Saudi Arabia....?

[andak01]

Keeping this on subject, we're talking about Wright, not Saudi Arabia. To be fair, I think Wright's generation saw some lynchings and certainly the memory of when that was common was fresh in their minds. My point here is to comment on how much has changed for the better. Lynchings were becoming more rare even when Wright was growing up. But it's fair to say he has a very different worldview than someone of the next generation. His worldview, though relatively common among his generation is almost unknown to the next one. If anything, black youth has forgotten about the struggle for civil rights.

[wellofvow]

If anything, black youth has forgotten about the struggle for civil rights.

Well, that's for sure. Black youth is now free to make any one of a number of choices:

Get an education and move upward
Complain that everyone is against you and stay where they are
Lash out against those weaker than you, like other blacks, or more vulnerable than you, like Jews

After spending just a little time on the Wrightian church site, I am not sure where the church is directing its youth.... Certainly against middleclassness, aka getting an education and making it in the States, where the majority is - duh - white. The 10 points vision directs them toward Africa, sooooo???? Other points negative. Certainly those taped sermons were nothing but hate and spite, nothing positive there for the young'uns to strive for.

[redcake]

WellofVow - I agree with your assessment of Trinity, but you have to remember these congregations are pretty large. 8,000 not including the community of ministries who travel around from Church to Church "sharing the Gospel". Just like the Nation of Islam, they do a boat load of social outreach, food drives, rehabilitation centers, sponsor halfway houses, and there are youth programs. To me it's about as valid as playing how Hamas buy Palestinian children shoes. It is important to recognize that in the Black communities, these extremist religious groups are viewed as being both a little crazy, and yet still very inspiring.

I've been out to Hip Hop events in New York, where the Nation of Islam sent a representative to "bless the crowd", and make some cryptic comments. There is a reverence there, and people get quiet and listen. MOst of what they said was cryptic, and then they sent someone around offering jobs at the shipyards for anyone there who was unemployed. Once the NOI leave, people are back to horsing around and cursing....and I assure you, if I started pulling random people aside and expressing outrage, or asking if the Nation are crazy...they would agree! That's fine, and that's just something the Black community will have to grow out of..... it doesn't threaten anyone... but at the same time, I'm not voting for a President who is taking interest in 5%'er ideologies. No way.

[andak01]

I wasn't aware that Wright's trip to Libya resulted in freeing an American prisoner, a result which was praised by then president Reagan and that it wasn't just Farrakan, but a number of other clergy of different faiths. I wonder why they haven't been hit with the paintbrush.

[Reffo]

Keeping this on subject, we're talking about Wright, not Saudi Arabia. To be fair, I think Wright's generation saw some lynchings and certainly the memory of when that was common was fresh in their minds. What perplexes me though is why the bile from these guys towards Jews? To the best of my knowledge I am not aware of any Jews having been involved in Lynch mobs or incitement against blacks. To the contrary I am aware of many idealistic Jews who were at the forefront of the civil rights movement and fought for the rights of blacks. And some even paid for it with their lives. I am sure that those well meaning idealists did that because of their sense of justice and their outrage about the treatment of the blacks. I am also sure that they didn't expect any thanks but at the same time, they didn't expect their own people (Jews) to become the target of racists from many (I'm sure that not everyone, thank G-D) in the black community.

[redcake]

They'll tell you that Jews ran the slave trade....and the banks that wouldn't give them loans.... and the music industry that stole their Jazz...

pff.

[Reffo]

I know the excuses and the rationalisations. But what are their real reasons? I think that there is something in the human psyche that makes some people to look for easy scapegoats and historically, which people fitted that role because of their small numbers, their relative lack of militancy and because they were perceived to be the 'other'?

But what I would like to know is where are the black idealists who would stand up for the Jews when they are accused unjustly and when they are demonized and vilified? Nowdays, I seem to perceive only two kinds of attitudes from blacks towards Jews: 1) Hatred and vilification, to be fair, I do think that it's a minority but it does seem to be a growth industry. And 2) Passivity, neither support nor hatred, just a big silence and I do think that' is the majority. Normally, I would consider attitude (2) to be reasonable but given the vocal attack, by some blacks against the Jews, I would like to see some counter offensive from the mainstream black community, to silence the haters amongst them.

[Yala]

I know the excuses and the rationalisations. But what are their real reasons?

Malcolm X

[redcake]

There area few public figures who stand up for Jews. Russell Simmons before he got wrapped up with Farrakahn or started his organization to mend relations between the two communities, comes to mind. What the hell needed to be mended I have no idea.

Actually, the comic Steve Harvey is probably the most vocal to support Jews, and combat whatever nonsense is being spread in certain circles of the Black community. Not exactly a superstar though.

Then there's Obama. Too bad he cheapens his own words by his associations. He might have the Black vote, but I wouldn't call him a Black leader either. When Kanye West said Blacks had a problem with homophobia it had a million times the impact as when Obama said it.

[Mediocrates]

I wish we secretly ran the phone companies because the only solution to Sprint, is a truck bomb.

[farmall]

"I would like to see some counter offensive from the mainstream black community, to silence the haters amongst them."

Why would they want to silence what they too believe?

[Yala]

Actually, the comic Steve Harvey is probably the most vocal to support Jews, and combat whatever nonsense is being spread in certain circles of the Black community. Not exactly a superstar though.

Really?? Do you have any links to an article on this or anything? I'm interested to see what he's said.

[Reffo]

Why would they want to silence what they too believe?If that would be true (even for the mainstream) then it's really sad, not just for the Jews but for blacks too.

Personally of course I don't know the real situation as I am far away from America..

[redcake]

Really?? Do you have any links to an article on this or anything? I'm interested to see what he's said.


I don't have any links, but he was basically just saying that Blacks and Jews are the "same thing", with similar histories, and acknowledged the important role Jews have played in Civil Rights. He was disapproving of Blacks who were unaware of the cultural ties.... pretty much said all the right things.

I've heard him say it a few different times. Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect is the only place I can really remember though.

[wellofvow]

What perplexes me though is why the bile from these guys towards Jews?

Redcake:
They'll tell you that Jews ran the slave trade....and the banks that wouldn't give them loans.... and the music industry that stole their Jazz...


I know the excuses and the rationalisations. But what are their real reasons?

You're right that these are made up rationalizations. However, Jews were often the absentee landlords of "ghetto" tenements. Once the Jews were the residents of these tenements, but worked hard and moved out to better neighborhoods and left the tenements for the next immigrant wave. The cycle was repeated and repeated, with the blacks always getting left behind. Not all of the Jewish landlords were bad people, but all it takes is one bad apple, and the prejudice spreads. There was also a "Jewish mafia", and who knows the fear level that these inspired among blacks?

Then, as Yala said, Malcolm X came around and popularized Islam, reminded Blacks that very often their ancestors were Moslems in Africa before being taken into slavery. This was a powerful message. And it is typical for Moslems to turn on Judaism, the parent religion.

Mix in envy of the Jews for "making it" as an ethnic group - although the difference in the two ethnic groups was (and as far as I can tell from here, still is) that the Jews practically worship education, did everything they could as new immigrants and made every sacrifice, and used their education to "get ahead" and get those good jobs, while the Blacks had no such dedication to education (and as far as I can tell from here, still do not).

And my last phrase gives the semantic clue: the root word in Hebrew for both "dedication" and "education" is the same. This is a very ancient, cultural thing among Jews and Moslems, but was lost by Muslim blacks during the period of slavery in the South since their "masters" converted them to a form of Christianity and vigorously obstructed their learning to read and write. Jews remained Jews during their slavery and under all subjugations by majority religions of the time and place.

Once the civil rights movement began, the Blacks were made to feel a sense of being entitled and owed, so there was no push-from-within (sorry, I'm translating to English from Hebrew here) in the Black ethnic psyche. Who coined "No child gets left behind"? I'll bet it was NOT an Afro-American.

Yes, there was considerable Jewish involvement and support of civil rights because "we were slaves unto Pharoah in Egypt" - as we are about to remind ourselves very shortly during our Passover celebration, the story of which is the Jews freeing themselves from slavery (no civil rights movement back in Pharoah's time). American black slavery ended because of the white man's Civil War, not because of anything pro-active on the part of the slaves.

So, although there are many historical similarities between Jews and Afro-Americans, only the former are able to see it any more. Many Blacks just could not get past the irrational jealousy, and the leaders of the Nation of Islam and similar groups (Wright's church comes to mind) took their flocks down different, more violent and primitive paths instead of the devotion to study that is also found in ancient Islam.

[redcake]

I don't know about all that... There's hardly any sense of real Jewish pride these days, in the US. There are a lot of elements of Jewish American culture which have gone extinct.

You did bring up a good point though - many Black neighborhoods used to be Jewish neighborhoods. Harlem is a perfect example.

[Yala]

I don't know about all that... There's hardly any sense of real Jewish pride these days, in the US. There are a lot of elements of Jewish American culture which have gone extinct.


I totally agree.

[Reffo]

wellofvow, I agree with your summary. Nevertheless, I'll pose the following rhetorical question/comment:


Should we Jews react the same way and blame blacks collectively for individual acts by some blacks against Jews? For instance: should we blame all blacks for the racist murder of a visiting Australian Rabinical student (Yankel), in Crown Heights, some years ago, when he happened to be the first Jew the vengeful black mob could lay their hands on after a black child died in a car accident (Yankel had nothing to do with the accident) in which another Jew was the driver? Of course, like all people, some black individuals, not just Jews commit acts of crime or behave badly. Do we blame the group for acts of individuals?
While one can understand (not accept) that some ordinary black people can be swayed by hateful rhetoric to vilify and demonize the 'other' (in this case Jews), what I find more difficult to forgive is the relative reluctance of the mainstream black elites and intellectuals to speak up loudly and condemn manifestations of hate speech (or worse) by their community against another minority (the Jews) who historically have gone out on a limb to stand up for black rights.