Self autonomy

[dunky]

The jewish comunity of north america has become increasingly assimilated over the past few decades. I believe this community needs to be saved. What do you feel about building a jewish semi autonomus region somewhere in north america where jews can procreate unhindered by intermarriage.

[elke]

Originally posted by dunky
The jewish comunity of north america has become increasingly assimilated over the past few decades. I believe this community needs to be saved. What do you feel about building a jewish semi autonomus region somewhere in north america where jews can procreate unhindered by intermarriage.

What exactly do you mean by that? :confused:

[Ezra]

Originally posted by dunky
The jewish comunity of north america has become increasingly assimilated over the past few decades. I believe this community needs to be saved. What do you feel about building a jewish semi autonomus region somewhere in north america where jews can procreate unhindered by intermarriage.

what kind of (.....) is this question?

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by dunky
The jewish comunity of north america has become increasingly assimilated over the past few decades. I believe this community needs to be saved. What do you feel about building a jewish semi autonomus region somewhere in north america where jews can procreate unhindered by intermarriage.

I'm not in favor of this because Jews belong in Israel alone. Jews who don't live there, choose so by themselves. I just read a quote abotu 5 hours ago, "Real Zionists live in Israel."
------
NOT meant offensivly - I'm a real Zionist and don't live in Israel (but that is because I can't for two more years, when I plan to move). I also believe that statement has some truth to it, but still is partially flawed. I KNOW people(some) won't like this quote.

[Haifa]

Isnt Broklyn already a jewish region?

[elke]

Originally posted by Haifa
Isnt Broklyn already a jewish region?

Brooklyn has all sorts of neighborhoods, from all sorts of ethnic groups. It's actually quite a place! IMO, it should be its own country - it already has a unique language ;)! (JK :p )

[Adversary2Arabs]

Ya, Brooklyn has many ethnic sections - Black, Jewish, Hispanic (Puerto Rican), and many others. As well as a few mixed neighborhoods if I'm not mistaken - only been there twice...and that was about 7 years ago.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Haifa
Isnt Broklyn already a jewish region?

No Just Crown Heights, Borough Park & Williamsburg are predominately Orthodox. Otherwise, Jews who live in Brooklyn are secular, conservative, reform and so on and outwardly indistinguishable.

There are about 2.3 million people who live in Brooklyn which makes it the 4th largest city in the US on its own (1990 Census data).

1990 data indicates that in the entirety of the Greater NYC metro area there are ~1.42 million Jews but there are no firm figures for the number of Jews who live in Brooklyn. There are probably about 150,000 Jewish households though based on people willing to be surveyed.

[ayesha]

im guessing the guy that started this thread is against intermarriage. why?

[Adversary2Arabs]

Intermarriage is just one step closer to complete assimilation. Eventually is can very easily, over time, eliminate Jews as a people. We would just be ann ethnicity that many people are a part of, but no one is completely. As well, along with that and assimilation, people following Judaism will stop complete or reduce greatly, as well as men who marry gentile women wouldn't have Jewish children.

[dunky]

I do consider intermarriage one of the greatest threats to judaism.

i would like to open a dialogue to discuss ways of saving preserving the north american community. Moving to israel simply will not happen. NOt enough will emigrate.
anyone have ideas
like building colonies in newfoundland or something

[elke]

Originally posted by dunky
...like building colonies in newfoundland or something

Newfoundland? Count me out! Waaaay too cold! :eek: :p

[Adversary2Arabs]

Ideas....hmm...no need to move physically...just mentally. When you raise your chldren, stress religion (not reform or conservative Judaism because they ACCEPT intermarriage), and stress Jewish Law as well as constantly explain your views on intermarriage (when they are old enough). Hell, I'm doing it right now with my sister whose 6 years old. My parents don't care, so in my family I have to be responsible for Jewish related things. If you stress these things from the begenning, they will grow up understanding this is the only way. Of course, some will go astray, but there's nothing you can do about that. Personally, if one of my children intermarried, I would not consider them part of my family any longer.

[dunky]

living seperatly would however gurranttee that jewish civilization outside of israel would survive and prosper

[Adversary2Arabs]

If Jews are going to move, why not move to where the Jewish People are from originally, and a place that need Jews to continue to survive?! If your going to move already, why not to Israel?

[ybe]

Originally posted by ayesha
im guessing the guy that started this thread is against intermarriage. why?

What good would come from intermarriage?

By not intermarrying we have been able to survive as a group, maintain our religion, traditions and customs.

Also our religion forbids intermarriage.

[Moon]

I guess some people don't know how it's like to live in a tiny microscopic Jewish community. If I don't find Jewish girls who am I supposed to marry? :(

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Moon
I guess some people don't know how it's like to live in a tiny microscopic Jewish community. If I don't find Jewish girls who am I supposed to marry? :(

I know what it's like to live in a small Jewish community, not microscopic. :) Anyway, I'm moving to Israel so it won't be a problem for me. There's probably 1 or 2 Jewish girls in Israel...at least I hope.

[dunky]

i believe that the north american jewish community has formed its own cultural identity and should not be forced to give that up bye making aliyah. WE need our own self determination. Perhaps this could be helped by creating a single jewish political governing body, elected by north america's 6 million jews.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by dunky
i believe that the north american jewish community has formed its own cultural identity and should not be forced to give that up bye making aliyah. WE need our own self determination. Perhaps this could be helped by creating a single jewish political governing body, elected by north america's 6 million jews.

Count me.........OUT. It's not going to happen anyway so it's not worth the time...we'll I take back because peace will never happen anywhere in the Middle East, but we still try.

[Mediocrates]

Shetl? Ummmm....no thanks.

[Mediocrates]

That is a somewhat common story but it does not imply the same downstream effects of intermarriage in Judaism. When one person is a member of a small minority where it may be difficult under good conditions to maintain that identity it is doubly hard to do that in the face of your partner's demands, their family, locale, history and so on. The US for example is over 80% Christian in its many forms. It may sound trivial but it is simply not that hard to be a Protestant in the US whether you are serious about or not. The nation is more or less laid out to suit you, from the work week to school holidays to the common language that people use in everyday life.

It is doubly difficult for children who may find themselves the only 'whatever' among their peers in public school, or school teams for example. I mean how would you like to miss every single team practice because the coach simply demanded that they all be on Saturday afternoon? Or be innudated with Christmas 'events' in school?

At any rate that identity is very difficult to maintain when your partner isn't involved and would just as soon celebrate Christmas and Easter with their family and can't understand why you think it's such a big deal. That's the danger; neglect. And if you are an observant Jew at all even a little it just gets harder. Setting a Passover Seder is one thing and something anyone can learn but you truly have to be committed to kasher a kitchen for example. So over time many intermarried Jews stop practicing or teaching or worrying too much about it. Some even anglicize their names and in a generation nobody knows they were ever Jewish at all.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
That is a somewhat common story but it does not imply the same downstream effects of intermarriage in Judaism. When one person is a member of a small minority where it may be difficult under good conditions to maintain that identity it is doubly hard to do that in the face of your partner's demands, their family, locale, history and so on. The US for example is over 80% Christian in its many forms. It may sound trivial but it is simply not that hard to be a Protestant in the US whether you are serious about or not. The nation is more or less laid out to suit you, from the work week to school holidays to the common language that people use in everyday life.

It is doubly difficult for children who may find themselves the only 'whatever' among their peers in public school, or school teams for example. I mean how would you like to miss every single team practice because the coach simply demanded that they all be on Saturday afternoon? Or be innudated with Christmas 'events' in school?

At any rate that identity is very difficult to maintain when your partner isn't involved and would just as soon celebrate Christmas and Easter with their family and can't understand why you think it's such a big deal. That's the danger; neglect. And if you are an observant Jew at all even a little it just gets harder. Setting a Passover Seder is one thing and something anyone can learn but you truly have to be committed to kasher a kitchen for example. So over time many intermarried Jews stop practicing or teaching or worrying too much about it. Some even anglicize their names and in a generation nobody knows they were ever Jewish at all.

Flawlessly said, in my opinion... Actually, the only positive thing that came from Jewish ghettos and apartheid was probably one of the lowest rates of intermarriage in Jewish history.