Cochin Jews -Anybody here ?

[pagan]

I am from Kerala. Close to Cochin. There used to be a community of Jews in Cochin. Most of them emigrated to Israel after its establishment . Some 52 or so remain.



I would be interested to know whether there is any Cochin Jews or a descendant here ?
Any Israeli here know any Cochin Jew personally ?

Just curiosity:) :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochin_Jews

[andak01]

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[Steven]

So how many were ethnically cleansed, and what are their plans to get compensation?

So how many were treated as second class citizens? Stop acting like if Muslims do not kill us, things are all ok. They are not, we here know that.

[andak01]

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[Steven]

And stop acting as if the natural progression in every part of the world with the exception of America, Israel and a few countries in West Europe is anything other than a drastically shrinking Jewish population.

An estimated 9,000 people in the northeastern Indian states of Mizoram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizoram) and Manipur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manipur) started practicing Halachik Judaism in the 1970s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970s), being the descendants of the Tribe of Manasseh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Manasseh). They have since been recognized by Israel as a lost tribe, and most have left, or plan to leave India and emigrate to Israel after undergoing a conversion to Orthodox Judaism. However, India, under pressure from Christian Missionaries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Missionaries), has since halted conversions to Judaism and exodus to Israel. [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Jews#cite_note-2)

.The majority of Indian Jews have "made aliya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliya)" (migrated) to Israel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) since the creation of the modern state in 1948 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948). A total of 75,000 Indian Jews now live in Israel, (1% of the nations total population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Jews

This has nothing to do with dhimmi status.

[andak01]

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[pagan]

So how many were ethnically cleansed, and what are their plans to get compensation?
They went to Israel of thereon . Nobody persecuted them. They are proud of their old country.
One Indian Jew in Israel said" For 2000 years we were Jews in India ,now we are Indians in Israel" :lol:

[pagan]

So how many were ethnically cleansed, and what are their plans to get compensation?
They went to Israel of thereon . Nobody persecuted them. They are proud of their old country.
One Indian Jew in Israel said" For 2000 years we were Jews in India ,now we are Indians in Israel" :lol:


Now Adak stop trolling this thread,I am waiting for a Cochin Jew.:reb:

[andak01]

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[Steven]

I'm still waiting for anyone to tell me where anyone is paying jizyah today.

Do you even read? I just posted 2 articles with in the last week. Christians in Iraq and Jews in Yemen last year and that is only what we know off.:tdown:
Hamas has also talked about bringing it back. And stop playing word games, Jews and Christians are oppressed across the Islamic world. You show absolutely no respect for Christians and Jews.

Save your very obvious, well it is not the govt of those countries doing it. The govts are not stopping it either.

[andak01]

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[Steven]

[quote=Steven;272112]

And those articles spoke about jizyah? Dhimmis?



That's legitimate. But it isn't actually in place today.




No, I have plenty of respect. But hate crimes, oppression, etc. is not dhimmitude. You're applying a term that isn't accurate for propaganda effect.

Yes the articles spoke about jizyah and bull that oppression is not dhimmitude. Stop with the lies already.




Dhimmis who did not pay this tax, either had to convert to Islam or face the death penalty. This tax, higher than the tax Muslims had to pay, was on several occasions one of the most important sources of income for the rulers, and, therefore, they were often little inclined to encourage conversion to Islam, as this would represent a decrease in their income.
It was an early endeavour of the Sharia to add details to the regulations of the jizya. These involved that the Christians could keep all of their churches and convents, but were neither allowed to erect new structures nor restore ruined buildings. The Dhimmis had to give lodging to Muslims for up to 3 days and they had to show Muslims their respect. They could not perform religious rituals in public and no crosses could be used in Muslim quarters. They could not ride on horseback with saddles, nor could they carry weapons or sell alcoholic beverages to Muslims.
Non-Muslims were not allowed to build houses taller than their neighbours' houses. In public they had to carry visible tokens of the religion to which they belonged. If there was a case at the court, Muslim statements were considered of more value than the ones from non-Muslims. But there were no limitations to the professions in which non-Muslims could engage.
Later there were more regulations imposed, as in 853, when Caliph al-Mutawakkil forbade Dhimmis to ride on horses; they had to limit themselves to donkeys and mules. In 14th century Egypt, Jews had to wear a a yellow turban, Christians a blue one.

[andak01]

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[Steven]

There's no lie. Jews up until the 19th century were treated equally as bad or worse in Christian lands as they were in Muslim lands (assuming they were even allowed to exist at all, which for many decades they weren't.

Things improved in the 19th century, with fewer incidents like the Dreyfus affair and papal kidnappings occuring than previously and pogroms only in Eastern Europe. The 20th century came and Jews had it better in Europe until the Holocaust. The periods since the creation of Israel and 20th century prior to the Holocaust are unusual in that Jews have had it worse in the Muslim countries than in Europe. Even then Eastern Europe is holding their own in this ugly beauty pageant.

You can keep telling these lies about history for as long as you can keep people ignorant. The real fact is that poor treatment, oppression, ethnic cleansing, etc. have been the providence of the Jews almost equally across Christian and Muslim lands. The current period is the exception rather than the rule.

This is important. First of all, there is always a danger that Christians can revert to the worst excesses of the past. Second, Muslims have a capacity to do much better than they are even within the context of a Sharia state. Third, going back to any sort of theocratic rule by Christians shows that any theocracy has the capacity for intolerance that is presently being displayed by those Muslim states today.

Therefore, we should struggle together to dismiss theocracy, whether in Saudi Arabia or Bhutan or wherever it raises its head, including the Kahanists who would create a theocracy in Israel. That is a common and a worthy goal.

Another smokescreen. You said dhimmitude does not oppress and it does. We are not ignorant, you are the one that was lied to and given the sugar coated version of Islam, by Muslims. I think I will remain concerned with the actions of Muslims of today over Christians might revert.

[andak01]

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[Steven]

I never said that dhimmitude does not oppress. I said it isn't the same thing. You can't claim every act of oppression is dhimmitude like you do.



And I suppose you'll continue to be a volcano of spewing propaganda from the same websites. Sigh!

I never said that every act of oppression is dhimmitude. Either way dhimmitude is not a good status.

I suppose you will continue to throw up smokescreens even though no one is buying what you are selling.

[Mil]

The Cochin Jews left for different reason, at a different time, and most importantly from a different place. India is no Morocco or any other dictatorial national entity. People in places like India are free to choose their place of residence and leave and come-back any time they want to. Nobody takes away their bank accounts and makes them feel guilty of anything.

I am not sure why compare apples and oranges?

[andak01]

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[andak01]

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[Steven]

Great. I think we could both agree that dhimmitude isn't the best status for Jews, although it isn't worse than death, it isn't nearly as nice as what you can achieve in a secular state. But in a non-secular state where Christianity is the state religion, it has historically been as bad or worse. All the evils you claim are unique to Muslims were visited upon Jews under papal rule- the taxes and everything else including special clothing, segregated housing, etc.

The difference between Sharia states and secular states has nothing to do with Christianity, because secular states aren't ruled by the church. If they were, you'd have what you had prior to the Enlightenment and to some degree until the 19th century, banned books, censorship, people imprisoned for sedition against the church, inquisitions, etc.

That's why I'm in favor of supporting secular government rather than ranting on about how unique Islam is.


It is possible for you to post without lying, it does not seem like it. I never said it was unique to Muslims and most people do not care about what happened a long time ago. Muslims are still doing it. Another pathetic attempt at a smokescreen. You obviously think you are outsmarting people, but you are not.


Do you see anyone here calling for a Christian religion run state, I do not.

Like many here have said, why don't you stop wasting your time here, (that is all you are doing, you have not changed one persons mind) and go talk to Muslims? Why don't you start with Egypt and convince them not to vote for the pro-sharia Muslim Brotherhood? Let me know how many minds you change.

[andak01]

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[Steven]

And I'm not calling for a Sharia state here and never have.



And you can talk to the Nazis in the BNP. Oh, I forgot, that's your boys!

So what? The call and push for Sharia is growing.

So in other words you want to try and shut us up and on the other hand do nothing about the problem. Like I have said before, you are part of the problem. Hopefully you will move to the Middle East soon.

[Mil]

Posted by Andak01:


I'm well aware that bank accounts were seized in Egypt and Iraq. I never heard of Israelis from those places mourning Nasser or Saddam.

I never heard of too many Moroccan Jews mourning for Morocco either.

However, it is inconceivable to me that Moroccan Jews, even a single one would mourn the loss of King Hassan II if he had seized all of their assets. But in fact, thousands did mourn him.

Some Jews even mourned the passing of Stalin. You yourself told us that the same king of Morocco prohibited Jews from leaving Morocco - actually took away freedom of movement of an entire community. There were also special taxes, fines, residence restrictions and many other nasty thingies done to the Jews and Jews alone.

[andak01]

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[sharonbn]

I think its a pitty that this thread, that speaks of a aprticular Jewish cominuty was hijacked for yet-another Islamic quarrel.

I was in Cochin in 1999 and I remember it a beautiful city with lots of water ways. I visited the Jewish quarter and the old synagogue.

Regarding the Jewish Cochin community, this is what I remember from the un-authoritative expalnation of a member of our party: There were actually two distinct Jewish communitites in India - one was ancient, dating back to Roman times. They have "Indian" look and were in poor financial condition when the state of Israel was born. They chose to emmigrate to Israel. The other community is of European origin and came to India along with the first European colonialists (something like 300 years ago) They maintain a European look and have a strong financial/social status. The two communities had loose ties. The modern one are still living today in India.

[andak01]

In this case I regret it, because I feel I was the guilty party. Feel free to remove or move what you will. I've had my say. Sorry.

Done.

[Angry Lord]

http://www.bh.org.il/Communities/Archive/Cochin.asp

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/indians.html

[bararallu]

I think its a pitty that this thread, that speaks of a aprticular Jewish cominuty was hijacked for yet-another Islamic quarrel.

I was in Cochin in 1999 and I remember it a beautiful city with lots of water ways. I visited the Jewish quarter and the old synagogue.

Regarding the Jewish Cochin community, this is what I remember from the un-authoritative expalnation of a member of our party: There were actually two distinct Jewish communitites in India - one was ancient, dating back to Roman times.

There were and to some extent still are 3 distinct communities. The old Bavli Jews (and/or originating from Israelites) aka Cochin, the Ashkenazis that sought refuge during the war, and the Sephardic Jews that came after the expulsion.

[Talitha]

I am from Kerala. Close to Cochin. There used to be a community of Jews in Cochin. Most of them emigrated to Israel after its establishment . Some 52 or so remain.



I would be interested to know whether there is any Cochin Jews or a descendant here ?
Any Israeli here know any Cochin Jew personally ?

Just curiosity:) :)


Just curiosity from my side, too :))

What language do Jews in India (Kerala) speak?

[Mil]

Yiddish :)

[pagan]

Just curiosity from my side, too :))

What language do Jews in India (Kerala) speak?
Of course Malayalam...:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam
Not all Indian Jews are Cochin Jews. In truth vast majority of them are not Keralites.

[Talitha]

Of course Malayalam...:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayalam
Not all Indian Jews are Cochin Jews. In truth vast majority of them are not Keralites.

do you know also hebrew?

[ShimonG]

I wonder why andak feels compelled to butt into issues that have no bearing on him. I think it is the height of islamic arrogance. Not sure if the mods forced him to delete his responses. If they did, i'd feel heartened to know that they are finally stepping up and nixing his islamic propaganda.

[pagan]

do you know also hebrew?
No....I know Malayalam and English and a bit Hindi....

By the way no cochin Jew here....Whhahahahahaa [crying]

[Talitha]

No....I know Malayalam and English and a bit Hindi....

By the way no cochin Jew here....Whhahahahahaa [crying]

Aren't you Jewish?

What are Cochin Jews? (Do you mean Kohanim??)

[dayag]

Aren't you Jewish?

What are Cochin Jews? (Do you mean Kohanim??)

Cochin is a city in India. Pagan was crying "Whhahahahahaa" because he isn't Jewish.

[pagan]

I am not Jewish. I have never met a Jew in real life. Still I would be happy if I can find a keralite Jew who can speak Malayalam here . It is always joyful to meet persons who speak your mother tongue.
Also I am from Cochin ,the place of Keralite Jews.

[Steven]

Cochin is a city in India. Pagan was crying "Whhahahahahaa" because he isn't Jewish.


He is not crying at all.

[dayag]

He is not crying at all.

quote: "Whhahahahahaa [crying]."
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=272531&postcount=34

[pagan]

The thread is declared dead until a Malayali Jew comes.