View Full Version : Would Israel have the guts to end this conflict in the next war?
KettleWhistle
11-11-2008, 03:43 AM
Ending the Lebanon conflict may actually be quite simple, just like ending most of conflicts in the Middle East--get different peoples out of each others' crosshairs. Yes, I'm talking about ethnic cleansing. And, no, not the one that involves genocide.
Israel has the means, but does it have the guts to chase all the Hezbollah-supporting Shiites our of Lebanon, and into Syria if the next war breaks out?
Discuss.
Absolutely. Israel did it before with the PLO and next time will not hesitate to finish off Hezbollah (no matter the government).
The prison swap made a lot of people gung ho. Hell, I couldnot sleep and just wanted to go in and finish the sh!te myself;:unsure:
KettleWhistle
11-11-2008, 06:59 AM
Israel did not do it with the PLO. The evacuation of the PLO out of Lebanon was only consequent to their weakness after the expulsion from Jordan, and it was negotiated and partially financed by the US. It was no expulsion by Israel. In fact, the story about the sniper who was ordered not to shoot Arafat is well known.
Furthermore, Israel did not expel the Fakestinian population out of Lebanon, which is what it should have done to rid Lebanon of the Fakestinian influence.
NewsGuy
11-11-2008, 08:37 AM
Unfortunately, the only ethnic cleansing that Israel will do is against Jewish families, as seen in Gaza. Israel's leadership doesn't have the strength to protect its citizens or its land from the Muslim threat. And at this point in time Israel's military doesn't have the ability to beat its enemies, because no amount of high-tech weapons can compensate for basic incompetence and lack of motivation.
These days, Israelis are much more concerned with iPhones and widescreen TVs than with preserving the Jewish homeland, and the government's policies reflect that.
If I were a betting man, I'd give better odds to Israel inviting Hamas into the Knesset than to moving Arab enemies out of the Jewish homeland.
Leman
11-27-2008, 05:47 PM
My opinion is that Israel is waiting for a worldwide crisis situation when governments are falling because of wars and chaos and other nations are in intense war situations where nukes are probably used. When world attention is focused on big wars in the orient and south asia israel will do something. I don't know if it will be ethnic cleansing but it might be the removal of the dome of the rock and the building of the third temple etc.
bararallu
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
My opinion is that Israel is waiting for a worldwide crisis situation when governments are falling because of wars and chaos and other nations are in intense war situations where nukes are probably used. When world attention is focused on big wars in the orient and south asia israel will do something. I don't know if it will be ethnic cleansing but it might be the removal of the dome of the rock and the building of the third temple etc.
:rofl::lol:
NewsGuy
11-27-2008, 07:18 PM
I don't know if it will be ethnic cleansing but it might be the removal of the dome of the rock and the building of the third temple etc.
Is that what your imam told you, Leman?
Unfortunately, Israel is simply not politically strong enough to disengage once and for all from its terrorist-supporting population of Arabs.
As for the dome of the rock, I only wish that your imam was correct about that. The concept of Islam imposing its mosques on top of other religion's holy places is repulsive. If I were Israel's PM (a fate I would not wish on my worse enemy), I would tell Saudi Arabia to send a helicopter to airlift the dome back to SA, before I would have it melted and sold for the price of metal, with the proceeds going to compensate the victims of radical Islam.
pizza4theidf
01-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Ending the Lebanon conflict may actually be quite simple, just like ending most of conflicts in the Middle East--get different peoples out of each others' crosshairs. Yes, I'm talking about ethnic cleansing. And, no, not the one that involves genocide.
Israel has the means, but does it have the guts to chase all the Hezbollah-supporting Shiites our of Lebanon, and into Syria if the next war breaks out?
Discuss.
Well said. You should be an adviser to Tzipi Livni, or whoever's in the government after February.
israel_heart
01-14-2009, 03:52 AM
My opinion is that Israel is waiting for a worldwide crisis situation when governments are falling because of wars and chaos and other nations are in intense war situations where nukes are probably used. When world attention is focused on big wars in the orient and south asia israel will do something. I don't know if it will be ethnic cleansing but it might be the removal of the dome of the rock and the building of the third temple etc.
:lol:
Toadstool46
01-14-2009, 06:20 AM
Personally I do not believe that it is humanly possible to end this conflict as long as there remains an Israel and the Muslim religion.
This conflict will not end until the return of the messiah, the tribulation, and finally armaghedon.
It is written and the truth is the truth no matter what anyone believes.
pizza4theidf
01-14-2009, 06:50 AM
It is written and the truth is the truth no matter what anyone believes.
Interesting observation there.
bararallu
01-14-2009, 07:02 AM
Interesting observation there.
Are you being sarcastic?
Fluids
01-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Ending the Lebanon conflict may actually be quite simple, just like ending most of conflicts in the Middle East--get different peoples out of each others' crosshairs. Yes, I'm talking about ethnic cleansing. And, no, not the one that involves genocide.
Israel has the means, but does it have the guts to chase all the Hezbollah-supporting Shiites our of Lebanon, and into Syria if the next war breaks out?
Discuss.
Not only that what you're proposing is so maniacally unethical, it's also unfeasible, and actually denotes a deep ignorance in the political situation in the region, but also general delusion.
orangeblossom
02-01-2009, 06:24 PM
Sorry, but another cease fire would stop the war. That is the truth. Too many have gone by. Plz do not talk like this and that. I can not take it anymore. I like to see reality.
I am the kind, that if 1,000 had to die, to save 1 million...I would see it. but...from what I see...it is 1,000 here and there.
Luv Israel...but...I am getting tired of same old war. Need new leader. We need a Sharon!
orangeblossom
02-01-2009, 06:31 PM
Kettleworthless:
I am surprised at you on ethnic cleasing of Lebaon. Calling genocide in the holocaust, and you call the same for other innocence.
Whether you want to believe it OR NOT!...some muslims are just as nice. THEY WANT A DAMN LIFE!
What you lost, is the tie into a REVOLUTION of the MIDDLE EAST...like the Renaissance...the CUltureal awaking...etc....you ppl forgot who to support...Like the Damascus Declacaration writers.
What about PERSION who do not consider themeselves Iranians..under Khomeini? Oh...they are NOT JEWISH! But, I see YOUR OWN JEWISH DENOUCE THEM ON TV!
So you want a genocide in Lebanon....I ask and let's be UP FRONT!...Just of what group of PPL!
WHEN YOUR ARAFAT came in..he started with DAMOUR! Let's see what you would pick! Check the pics out there and let all of us know!
Ya I be shoom. Loved you as a moditor...but after this...I wonder..are you just as bad as the Germans who supported Hitler?
OB
What is that supposed to mean? As bad as Hitler?
orangeblossom
02-01-2009, 08:29 PM
In all honesty...speaking of genocide of ppl...I thought this would be the LAST PLACE!
People are people...governments are governments; propaganda is propaganda. One needs to learn.
Obviously...we disagree on genocide....if he calls for this...he is no better than HASOUNA living 10 feet under ground.
orangeblossom
02-01-2009, 08:36 PM
And plz...do not speak of finishing HA...I am so angry on this topic. Isrealis do not finish anything.
You talk and talk. Last Gaza war really got to me. Like you all so tough. Mossad this and that. What you pick one out of a group? You can't even get your own men back.
Unless Israel steps up, which I do not think so, BECAUSE THEY WILL LOOSE BIG DOLLARS...I am rather upset at it right now.
Sorry., but here it is: I AM PISSED< PISSED PISSED at the CEASEFIRE with GAZA and the PERMITTANCE OF HAMAS TO ECXIST!@
I think it will take me a long time to calm down. If you think you can counter and defend Israel's move on this...with me, then you have the wrong person.
And after ceasefire...Hamas fired another missle. It is another game.
All I can say is I am dissapointed and dismayed at Israel. And if someone else can't say it...with all your supplies from USA...then I will. Facts are facts.
orangeblossom
02-01-2009, 09:06 PM
Sorry, kettle:
Just had to blow off steam - I am sure you do not want genocide. I am 38 year old. Smelled death. Heard stories. Lived stories. We are all tired of the same old shit. My husband worse than me. New leaders with no real answers.
I think last war, just hit me hard. Tired of it all. Done with it. I think this is my last post for a while here. Genocide is not a word I like in my vocabulary.
OB
OB be serious, Israel's intentions were not to finish off Hamas. Why finish off Hamas when Fatah are the same people without the beards. They are all the same so why bother?
Kettle, your idea doesn't make sense. Just as Gaza = Hamas, Southern Leb = Hezbollah. They cannot be kicked anywhere. The PLO were foreign to Lebanon, it was a diff. situation.
Orange - unfortunately Israel is a very small state with very limited political capital. The main Israeli target in all wars is to start wars and then have the world help it impose a political solution before all gets out of hand. That's how all Israeli wars - except the one in Lebanon in the 80s - was fought. The failure of Lebanon in 2006 was not military but political - the END game was not thought through thoroughly. The only driving force of that war was "Lets kick some butte."
In this war in Gaza all was thought through thoroughly!!!! The war ended abruptly when Israel got what it wanted politically mostly from international commitments.
Y. Shulamith
02-02-2009, 07:36 AM
I am waiting for all the Arabs, Mussies, PLO, terrorists to lay down their weapons and say, hey, let's make peace with our Israeli neighbors, "love is all you need".
I am not holding my breath.
orangeblossom
02-15-2009, 07:04 PM
OB be serious, Israel's intentions were not to finish off Hamas. Why finish off Hamas when Fatah are the same people without the beards. They are all the same so why bother?
Kettle, your idea doesn't make sense. Just as Gaza = Hamas, Southern Leb = Hezbollah. They cannot be kicked anywhere. The PLO were foreign to Lebanon, it was a diff. situation.
First...thanks for letting me blow off steam! I needed somewhere to complain, and I Was so upset at this war. I want to keep Lebanese and Israeli in good contact...and I will continue to post here, to let you know what is happening on the other side of the border, not newspaper or media bound,.....but people oriented.
Second...Yala...your first quote...Israel's intentions....for some reason...I wanted to really believe it. After all that I have been through and my family.
There is a thing called 'Hope.' And I was just hoping for the 72nd time...that this one would be the real one? Is that bad of me?
I don't think so. I was hoping that this battle was different against fundamentalism. Being that, Isreal would not tolerate it whatsoever. But, what they did, with this withdraw, is create more of it and you will see it down the road. There is where I SEE THE DANGER.
I see this for YOUR PPL and MINE.
Luv ya! OB.
orangeblossom
02-15-2009, 07:30 PM
Orange - unfortunately Israel is a very small state with very limited political capital. The main Israeli target in all wars is to start wars and then have the world help it impose a political solution before all gets out of hand. That's how all Israeli wars - except the one in Lebanon in the 80s - was fought. The failure of Lebanon in 2006 was not military but political - the END game was not thought through thoroughly. The only driving force of that war was "Lets kick some butte."
In this war in Gaza all was thought through thoroughly!!!! The war ended abruptly when Israel got what it wanted politically mostly from international commitments.
I have learned to AGREE! You stated it beautifully. And if you asked me, prior to this Gaza war....I would have denied it...wore a cross of David on my NECK to piss of Hezbollah ppl! I would have done everything! Still since, 1990s! After us Lebanese lost, in many ways, and were even hit in being labeled ARABS by the world.
With all our suffering and 30 years of Syrian Occupation, until the Gaza War, I was a true salute believer in Israel. Today, I utterly support Israel...BUT no longer trust their political actions in the Middle East. I question....and I question for innocent people; even jews. And, I would ONLY WRITE THIS HERE ON the ISRAELI FORUM...
FOR...get this, AMERICANS BELIEVE...that I AM THEIR ENEMY! IF I even STATE 1 argument against the state of ISrael...I am labeled a terrorist! I can't even say, a bathroom sucks at a local pub in ISrael! I go on forums, paltalk, etc....I try my best to educate them on the politics! I get slammed. And, guess what...I even get slammed by Israelis! These are fundamental and do not want Americans or others to really understand.
Wait..it is better...if I try to discuss the difference in your candidacy...I was a terrorist. HAHHAHAH! Because I stated, one was too fundamental.
I guess bottom line...I love Israel. I love the ppl. I have Israelis for dinner and I babysit their kids. (I started on this forum, looking for kosher recipies). I also have druze, sunnis, and christains. I am chrisitain. Even our Israeli 'commrads' were upset.
ANd we are all PRO-WEST...raise your family! Love your life...PPL!
I guess what I am saying...is we love you Israel, us Lebanese. Yes, we have a shit in our backyard...like you. So, you should understand that.
Go to some Lebanese forums...and read, listen...and you will learn to see what is out there. Lebanon...is just like Israel in many, many ways.
Nothing but ppl. Wanting thier kids to succeed. And bullies, needing to get their &*(& kicked.
My question is now....while we Lebanese are succeeding in doing that...is Israel somehow gng to blow it?
OB
My question is now....while we Lebanese are succeeding in doing that...is Israel somehow gng to blow it?
OB
You have a terrorist proxy army controlling your border, and veto power in your gov't. That is the only thing Lebanon is currently succeeding at, unfortunately.
For all true Lebanese, who want to see Lebanon truly succeed like you, I wish you the best of luck, but it doesn't look optimistic. You would have to have all the Christian Lebanese return and they are just not going to do that, including you. Am I right?
orangeblossom
02-15-2009, 10:53 PM
You have a terrorist proxy army controlling your border, and veto power in your gov't. That is the only thing Lebanon is currently succeeding at, unfortunately.
For all true Lebanese, who want to see Lebanon truly succeed like you, I wish you the best of luck, but it doesn't look optimistic. You would have to have all the Christian Lebanese return and they are just not going to do that, including you. Am I right?
And, you don't? You have a terrorist on the other side of a "Wall," which we haven't built yet. VETO...which will be gone in the next election...YOU have none of that. Yes, they lost previous Harriri election..time is up. New election. WE HAVE PPL TRAVELING IN TO VOTE!
Don't think you get the gravity of this vote. Havn't heard of Babs coming to vote...they just donate.
Plz...do not think I am smart-alek....I am just stating...what is in your backyard, is in mine. We are fighting them NOT to become extremists. Your wars are making yours do so. And, because Hezbollah on MY border sees this...they will USE you to attack....get it, because they lost this election BIG TIME!
orangeblossom
02-15-2009, 11:08 PM
Yala: Fun song...yes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiot1P3-Hng
Well....just wanted to put some fun into these politics and stuff. Just a plain, fun, song.
'like my writing!'
OB!
Lana Wolfe
02-20-2009, 01:33 PM
Israel won't end anything until the situation gets REALLY bad. and I mean HOLOCAUST BAD.
I live in Canada and I never thought I would feel like an outsider to who all the muslims give dirty looks in my school college because of being Jewish. It's getting there.
Yala: Fun song...yes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiot1P3-Hng
Well....just wanted to put some fun into these politics and stuff. Just a plain, fun, song.
'like my writing!'
OB!
:):)
Israel won't end anything until the situation gets REALLY bad. and I mean HOLOCAUST BAD.
I live in Canada and I never thought I would feel like an outsider to who all the muslims give dirty looks in my school college because of being Jewish. It's getting there.
How do they know you're Jewish? Are you orthodox?
Posted by orange:
I have learned to AGREE! You stated it beautifully. And if you asked me, prior to this Gaza war....I would have denied it...wore a cross of David on my NECK to piss of Hezbollah ppl! I would have done everything! Still since, 1990s! After us Lebanese lost, in many ways, and were even hit in being labeled ARABS by the world.
You are from the Middle East. You know the answer! Not until there are going to be fundamental changes in the Arab world would anything change. Israel cannot remove Hizbullah or impose Democracy; not even the Americans can do that. It's up to the people - like you.
Lana Wolfe
02-21-2009, 06:28 PM
No, I'm not Orthodox, but everyone knows I'm Jewish... it's a small college.
I had some friends from lebanon and jordan and everything was fine until the gaza war... they saw my perspective on the situation through facebook and now they won't even look at me.
No, I'm not Orthodox, but everyone knows I'm Jewish... it's a small college.
Are there lots of other Jews?
I had some friends from lebanon and jordan and everything was fine until the gaza war... they saw my perspective on the situation through facebook and now they won't even look at me.
Do you really care? I mean what kind of friends are these, where you can't even disagree and you can't even support your own people? Did you get mad at them that they supported Hamas?
Golem of Prague
02-22-2009, 02:34 AM
I have learned to AGREE! You stated it beautifully. And if you asked me, prior to this Gaza war....I would have denied it...wore a cross of David on my NECK to piss of Hezbollah ppl! I would have done everything! Still since, 1990s! After us Lebanese lost, in many ways, and were even hit in being labeled ARABS by the world.
A cross of David?:rolleyes:
dayag
02-22-2009, 03:22 AM
A cross of David?:rolleyes:
:rofl:
Lana Wolfe
02-22-2009, 05:33 AM
A cross of David?:rolleyes:
HAHAHAHAHA you go girl
Lana Wolfe
02-22-2009, 05:39 AM
Are there lots of other Jews
Nope, there really aren't.
Do you really care? I mean what kind of friends are these, where you can't even disagree and you can't even support your own people? Did you get mad at them that they supported Hamas?
I know I shouldn't care but I do feel awkward, no one wants to have this kind of tension. I have never spoken against their beliefs, etc. towards them in particular. But inside, I did feel a realization that perhaps I shouldn't be friends with them. Thanks for caring!! :hug:
Golem of Prague
02-22-2009, 05:45 AM
HAHAHAHAHA you go girl
*Checks his private parts*
Nope, still a guy. Almost got confused there for a second.
Y. Shulamith
02-22-2009, 07:49 AM
Hey, I lived in a small town most of my life that was 99.9% Christian, 17,000 souls, one Catholic Church, one Presbyterian, at least two Methodist churches,a Bible Presbyterian Church headed by noneother than the now deceased virulent racist, Carl MacIntire at the the helm, (had his radio station on a boat off the coast of Atlantic City that was so badly hateful that the FCC took away his license), one Baptist, assorted other Christian denominations, an old folks home that was Methodist. My brother's best friend was a Methodist, my best friend was Baptist/Jewish mix..LOL..and I wasn't exactly the toast of the town but I made it through it all, and am stronger for the experience.
P.S. No blacks in town, not a one, no other minorities back then, either, de facto segregation town.
dayag
02-22-2009, 08:14 AM
Hey, I lived in a small town most of my life that was 99.9% Christian, 17,000 souls, one Catholic Church, one Presbyterian, at least two Methodist churches,a Bible Presbyterian Church headed by noneother than the now deceased virulent racist, Carl MacIntire at the the helm, (had his radio station on a boat off the coast of Atlantic City that was so badly hateful that the FCC took away his license), one Baptist, assorted other Christian denominations, an old folks home that was Methodist. My brother's best friend was a Methodist, my best friend was Baptist/Jewish mix..LOL..and I wasn't exactly the toast of the town but I made it through it all, and am stronger for the experience.
P.S. No blacks in town, not a one, no other minorities back then, either, de facto segregation town.
That's what you can expect in the "deep South" (of New Jersey?)!
:D
I know I shouldn't care but I do feel awkward, no one wants to have this kind of tension. I have never spoken against their beliefs, etc. towards them in particular. But inside, I did feel a realization that perhaps I shouldn't be friends with them. Thanks for caring!! :hug:
If they are supporting Hamas, who call to kill all Jews, then you don't need them. Unfortunately, sometimes there is just no common ground :( I have lots of Muslim friends and they definitely do not talk or think this way. They understand exactly who and what Hamas, and groups like them, are.
Y. Shulamith
02-22-2009, 12:41 PM
That's what you can expect in the "deep South" (of New Jersey?)!
:D
You got it, cha..cha..cha...the Deep South of South Jersey circa the 60's, 70's and early 80's. They didn't become part of the "Union" until Mayor Armitage, the longest consecutive serving Mayor in the USA departed from the poltical scene and the townspeople elected more "progressive" politicians and in any event, the town became segregated and is now an enclave for gay individuals......:rock:Paybacks are a bitch....:clap::D
andak01
02-24-2009, 02:42 AM
A cross of David?:rolleyes:
It's a Lebanese thing. I have seen people wearing a bottle of Mogen David! :rofl:
Y. Shulamith
02-24-2009, 08:11 AM
It's a Lebanese thing. I have seen people wearing a bottle of Mogen David! :rofl:
I've got quite a few Mogen Davids, come to think of it!!!:lol:
orangeblossom
02-24-2009, 05:18 PM
Yala...did you hit my facebook? This song irritates our family from Lebanon to Australia, because i post it to remind them! This is my husband's and mine song! I've got a singer, to sing this song for his b-day coming up. I got a big laugh on opening this.
Here is a kicker...... one song that he just loves, is "I survive".....get it?
LOVED IT!
Here is one for you, that I play at our restaurant everyday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwSytHVxOyc
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