Finally, Israel strikes Gaza!

[KettleWhistle]

Well, it is getting close to the elections time.

Meanwhile, the BBC asks for propaganda. See attached image of the BCC.com screenshot.

[CanDo]

The Arab world, which has driven Jews out of their nations, and has tried many times to exterminate the Jews of the Middle East, is condemning the Jews of Israel from fighting back to defend Jewish families from constant attack by the Arabs/Muslims of Gaza. :rofl:

Since 2005, when Israel vacated Gaza, and Gaza was considered Jew-Free, the Arabs/Muslims of Gaza have attacked Israel's families with 5000 missiles! Three long years of constant attacks against Jews, by the racist, hateful Arabs/Muslims of Gaza went unanswered UNTIL NOW!

Over 170 of the enemy are dead and over 200 wounded! Plus...... a lot of Hamas infrastructure DESTROYED! :clap:

I just hope that Israel has the courage and strength to continue to defend it's Jewish families until there are no more attacks against Jewish men, women and children from Gaza's Arab/Muslim population.

[KettleWhistle]

Since 2005, when Israel vacated Gaza, and Gaza was considered Jew-Free, the Arabs/Muslims of Gaza have attacked Israel's families with 5000 missiles!
Way more than 5000. It was over 3000 this year alone.
"But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according to the military's count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military to crush the gunmen."

Source: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,473145,00.html

[CanDo]

I could not imagine being a child, growing up in Sderot, living in fear of constant, daily rocket attack, day and night.

Most of the world is indifferent to racist religious intolerance by the Arab/Muslim world, and constant attacks by Arabs/Muslims against Jews, either because of fear of the Arab/Muslim violent cultures, or due to AntiSemitism.

It won't be long before the incompetent, corrupt dummies of the United Nations, or the EU, condemns Israel for "over-reacting" to Arab/Muslim attacks against Jews.

[NewsGuy]

Apparently, in 90 seconds, Israel destroyed all Hamas "military and police structures" and killed 150-200 Hamas terrorists. First dead Israeli civilian as the Muslim terrorists shot rockets and missiles into Israeli population centers.

We should express our encouragement to the IDF and to the citizens who are forced to be in the line of fire.

Below: Photo of uniformed Hamas terrorists after Israel's bombing:

[CanDo]

The EU says that military force is useless.

Well...... what are the chances that the dead Islamic terrorist vermin, in that picture, will ever again bring misery and cruelty to Jewish families.

[Laila]

I wonder how many children will be killed by Israel through this attack :/

[CanDo]

Ask Hamas and the Muslim/Arab world that question, they are responsible.

[bararallu]

I wonder how many children will be killed by Israel through this attack :/

I wonder how many are killed due to continued Arab indoctrination, violence and Jew Hate, and their support by the LEFT world wide.

[CanDo]

I wonder how many children will be killed by Israel through this attack :/

How many Muslim/Arab or Jewish or Christians or Hindu children, do you think will have to die before the Muslim/Arab world decides that it is better to live at peace with other religions and races, rather than in hatred, racism, misery and violence?

[CanDo]

I wonder how many are killed due to continued Arab indoctrination, violence and Jew Hate, and their support by the LEFT world wide.

Have you ever figured out why people like Laila easily accept violent Muslim/Arab racism, bigotry and religious intolerance towards others?

[Laila]

Have you ever figured out why people like Laila easily accept violent Muslim/Arab racism, bigotry and religious intolerance towards others?

I accept religious intolerance?

How dare i as a human being condemn Israel in killing civilians! I mean, i must be a anti semetic; no wait, strike that. Hitler wannabe -.-'

[Laila]

How many Muslim/Arab or Jewish or Christians or Hindu children, do you think will have to die before the Muslim/Arab world decides that it is better to live at peace with other religions and races, rather than in hatred, racism, misery and violence?

Yes because its just Muslims who are violent ... *switches on SKY, watches air raids*

Yep, just Muslims ...

[scattergood]

Let us be clear, there is no joy in the death's of Arab civilians, there is no joy in the fact that Israel must go to war to defend herself. It is a terrible, horrible shame.

However, the death's of the civilians and the fact that Israel must go to war in Gaza lie directly and squarely upon Hamas. They are the ones who bring their children near to weapons factories, and set up their infrastructure near civilians. They are the ones who, in 2005, decided to breakup the greenhouses for military supplies instead of using them for more productive means. They are the ones who have rained down rockets upon Israel during the cease fire.

The best way to ensure that civilians stop dying is to end Hamas quickly and totally. A victor must desroy the ability and the will of their opponent. And while Israel has been relatively successful in destroying the ability of Hamas to fight, it has done nothing but increase their will to fight. Until the pain is SO high to continue fighting, and the civilians in Gaza who voted Hamas in see it as a mistake, there will be no end.

[scattergood]

I accept religious intolerance?

How dare i as a human being condemn Israel in killing civilians! I mean, i must be a anti semetic; no wait, strike that. Hitler wannabe -.-'

Yes how dare you. Let's say Hamas puts a rocket launcher in a school and starts to fire it up while classes are in session, and Israel takes it out, you will blame Israel for killing children. It is Hamas who decided to put the rocket in the school, it is Hamas who decided to fire the rocket launcher while children were around.

Tell me, what should Israel do in the above case? Or what should an IDF soldier do if a wave of children throwing rocks at them are the front fence for 20 terrorists who are throwing grendades and shooting rifles at them? Should the IDF soldiers respond? Seriously, tell us what they should do to defend themselves?

[Laila]

Let us be clear, there is no joy in the death's of Arab civilians, there is no joy in the fact that Israel must go to war to defend herself. It is a terrible, horrible shame.

However, the death's of the civilians and the fact that Israel must go to war in Gaza lie directly and squarely upon Hamas. They are the ones who bring their children near to weapons factories, and set up their infrastructure near civilians. They are the ones who, in 2005, decided to breakup the greenhouses for military supplies instead of using them for more productive means. They are the ones who have rained down rockets upon Israel during the cease fire.

The best way to ensure that civilians stop dying is to end Hamas quickly and totally. A victor must desroy the ability and the will of their opponent. And while Israel has been relatively successful in destroying the ability of Hamas to fight, it has done nothing but increase their will to fight. Until the pain is SO high to continue fighting, and the civilians in Gaza who voted Hamas in see it as a mistake, there will be no end.

I am in no way saying Hamas is innocent but when more civilians are being reported dead compared to militants. That is when you know Israel has a problem.

Every time a strike happens, do you notice the trend of more civilians dying compared to militants

[CanDo]

I accept religious intolerance?

How dare i as a human being condemn Israel in killing civilians! I mean, i must be a anti semetic; no wait, strike that. Hitler wannabe -.-'

As long as you find 100% fault with Jews and no fault with Muslims/Arabs, that shows you to accept religious intolerance, racism and bigotry.

The Arab/Muslim world has almost completely ethnicially cleansed itself of Christians and Jews, yet your blind eye turns to blame Jews when they fight back against Arab/Muslim terrorism, using effective means.

Yet when Jews are attacked over and over again, day after day, year after year, you only spring to life to fault Jews for defending their own families.

You not only accept religious intolerance, bigotry and racism, you endorse it.

[Laila]

Tell me, what should Israel do in the above case? Or what should an IDF soldier do if a wave of children throwing rocks at them are the front fence for 20 terrorists who are throwing grendades and shooting rifles at them? Should the IDF soldiers respond? Seriously, tell us what they should do to defend themselves?

A soldier against a few rocks? Wtf?
For Gods sake. Let me guess, you think the soldier should be allowed to open fire in 'defence' right?

[Laila]

As long as you find 100% fault with Jews and no fault with Muslims/Arabs, that shows you to accept religious intolerance, racism and bigotry.

The Arab/Muslim world has almost completely ethnicially cleansed itself of Christians and Jews, yet your blind eye turns to blame Jews when they fight back against Arab/Muslim terrorism, using effective means.

Yet when Jews are attacked over and over again, day after day, year after year, you only spring to life to fault Jews for defending their own families.

You not only accept religious intolerance, bigotry and racism, you endorse it.

I don't think its 100% on jews.
Rather 55%
Get the figure right

Yes, its us Muslims that wiped out Jews. Please.
They were living fine amongst Muslims before Israel was there. For hundreds of years Jews went to ME for protection against Europeans.

[CanDo]

Yes because its just Muslims who are violent ... *switches on SKY, watches air raids*

Yep, just Muslims ...

The Muslims/Arabs have a violence, racist, religiously intolerant culture every day of the year. That is why almost all Christians and Jews have fled the Muslim/Arab Middle East.

The Jews of Israel have endured thousands of rockets, fired against their families from Muslims/Arabs, over the past few years, without resorting to violence. The Jews of Israel only seek peace. But when it becomes obvious to any thinking human, that the only way to peace with violent, racist Muslims/Arabs is through force, then so be it! :stick:

[Laila]

The Muslims/Arabs have a violence, racist, religiously intolerant culture every day of the year.

Am i supposed to care what you 'believe'?

[scattergood]

I am in no way saying Hamas is innocent but when more civilians are being reported dead compared to militants. That is when you know Israel has a problem.

Every time a strike happens, do you notice the trend of more civilians dying compared to militants

Again a total non answer. You are basically saying that Israel should just put up with thousands of rockets, etc. because Hamas has been effective in digging into the civilian population and ensuring that civilian deaths will be high. That's rewarding Hamas' illegal and immoral activities, and rewarding the very popluation that voted for them to continue their illegal and immoral attacks.

Success and failure in war is not based on body count. It is based on being able to destroy the will and ability of your opponent to fight. The conclusion of your argument is that the population that is willing to have 1 more person die than the other side will win, if all that matters is the body count.

[NewsGuy]

I am in no way saying Hamas is innocent but when more civilians are being reported dead compared to militants. That is when you know Israel has a problem.
Please show me a link to a Muslim Web site where you express your humanitarian concerns about Hamas deliberately firing several hundred rockets into Israeli population centers this week?

It seems that when Muslim terrorists shoot into Jewish temples, homes, kindergartens, etc., people like you are silent. But... If Israel shoots back at the Muslim terrorists, well, then, it's a real humanitarian outrage, isn't it?

[bararallu]

I am in no way saying Hamas is innocent

Thats exactly what your saying

[CanDo]

I don't think its 100% on jews.
Yes, its us Muslims that wiped out Jews. Please.
They were living fine amongst Muslims before Israel was there.

The Muslim/Arab world is taught to hate all non-Muslims. The profound loathing and hatred of the backward, violent, uncivilized Muslim/World is merely a normal part of the culture.

The Muslim/Arab world has been able to drive most of the Christians and Jews out of the Middle East. But they haven't been able to drive the tenacious, courageous Jews totally out of the Middle East.

The Muslim/Arab world drove Jews out of Egypt, out of Lebanon, out of Syria, out of Saudi Arabia, out of Iran, out of Iraq, out of MOROCCO, out of Jordan. Jewish families fled to Israel, and took a stand there, against enormous hordes of violent, uncivilized Muslim/Arab killers.

The backward, uncivilized Muslims/Arabs attempted to use their military to kill all of the Jews, FIVE times, and yet the small number of Jews beat back these brutal Muslim/Arab goons. The Muslim/Arab world has never forgiven the Jews of Israel for surviving against the Muslim/Arab world's plans of killing all Middle East Jews.

The Muslim/Arab world then flooded Gaza and the West Bank with Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, etc., driving out Christians and Jews from these areas, and then, through a propaganda hoax, named themselves "Palestinians".

Located in Jerusalem are 600 historic Christian churches. Where have the Christians gone? Where have all the Muslims come from?! Why are Arabs/Moslems claiming Jerusalem, as a Muslim capital, after centuries being JudeoChristian?

[scattergood]

A soldier against a few rocks? Wtf?
For Gods sake. Let me guess, you think the soldier should be allowed to open fire in 'defence' right?

Right, so as long as the Hamas attacks aren't too effective upon the Jews, you think they should just be able to continue them?

Let's say Wales breaks off and becomes a separate country. And then they start lobbing rockets at Bristol and Gloucester, but they aren't too effective, they can only put 1lb of explosives because of the distance right now. And they rain down 10,000 rockets over the course of 3 years. Is England in the right to attack Wales? The Welsh rightly claim that the Angles from Denmark came over in the 1st - 4th centuries CE and dispossed the Welsh from Angleland, or England. The Welsh are just fighting for their homeland.

[scattergood]

How Israel led Hamas into false sense of security

Carefully calculated maneuvers utilized by cabinet lulled Islamist group into arrogant calm ahead of airstrike offensive in bid to maintain element of surprise. Primary aim of operation is to stop rocket attacks on Israel's south, rebuild deterrence

Maneuvering the enemy: The Israel government reportedly employed several measures in order to lead Hamas into a false sense of security and ensure the operation against the Islamist group would take the organization by complete surprise.

The tactic called for Defense Minister Ehud Barak to allow trucks carrying humanitarian aid into the Gaza, despite the ongoing rocket fire on the western Negev.

Last Sunday afternoon saw Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Barak reportedly agree on launching a wide-scale military offensive in Gaza. Then on Wednesday the National Security Cabinet approved the proposed operation, with the 11 ministers comprising the forum lodging a unanimous yea vote.

However leaks to the media prompted Hamas officials to go underground in anticipation of the operation, forcing Israel to rethink its strategy and attempt a three-stage deception maneuver.

 Stage one called for the press to learn that the cabinet was only briefed on the situation in Gaza, but that no operational decisions were made.

 Stage two called for Barak to announce that humanitarian aid would be let into the Strip on Friday.

 Stage three had the media learn that the "kitchenette" – the narrow forum comprised of Olmert, Barak and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni – would be meeting on Sunday to discuss future options.

These steps, said political sources, bore fruit.

"Hamas pulled its people out of hiding and resumed normal operations," said the sources. "It would seem that Hamas believes the Israeli media, and thought it had a few more days before Israel launched an operation… once the tactical opportunity presented itself, the prime minister called Barak and Livni to his home on Friday night and they made the decision."

One of the sources added that the IDF has set only two goals for the operation, which is called 'Cast Lead.' The short-term goal calls for the rocket fire by Hamas and the other terror organization to stop. The second goal is to create the kind of deterrence that would prevent future attacks from Gaza on Israel's south.

Senior sources in Jerusalem added that unlike the Second Lebanon War, which had ambitious goals, the current operation does not aim for the outright toppling of Hamas' rule in Gaza, or for the release of kidnapped IDF soldier Gilad Shalit, but rather only restoring calm to the western Negev and the Gaza-vicinity communities.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3645135,00.html

The gov't isn't a bunch of idiots, they are skillful psyop's operators! Hopefully this is true....

[KettleWhistle]

A soldier against a few rocks? Wtf?
For Gods sake. Let me guess, you think the soldier should be allowed to open fire in 'defence' right?

Yes. And the next time around there won't be any rocks. And if they won't want to be shot at, there won't be any rocks.

BTW, your comparison of collateral damage amongst the Arabs to Israeli civilian casualties is just pathetic.

[CanDo]

Am i supposed to care what you 'believe'?

Not at all. But you should care, a little, about truth and justice.

Of course not all Muslims are good, or evil. I am sure that there are many anecdotal accounts of good Muslims.

But...... when we see all of the violence and hatred coming out of the Muslim Middle East, especially the widespread racism and religious intolerance, one has to wonder if "radical Islam" is more widespread than reported.

Christians and Jews have been persecuted throughout the Muslim/Arab Middle East, and mostly driven out of their homes. Christians and Jews have had to flee from the Muslim Middle East and attempt to take refuge in safer, less racist and less discriminatory JudeoChristian countries.

Look at the horrid treatment of Jews throughout the Middle East. Not only were Jews horribly persecuted throughout the Middle East, they were murdered and tortured and driven from their homes. The majority of the Muslim Middle Eastern Jews lost their possessions, and had to flee to the fledgling state of Israel in order to defend themselves from Muslim/Arab persecution. 820,000 Jews were driven out of Muslim countries, with about 600,000 of them taking refuge in Israel. But, being in Israel hasn't protected either Christians or Jews from further Muslim/Arab attacks and persecution. In 1948 and 1956 and 1967 and 1973, combined Muslim/Arab armies, attempted to destroy Israel and murder all of Israel's Jews. These large Muslim/Arab armies' only reason to make war against Israel was because of religious intolerance and racial hatred against Jews. If you ask "moderate" Muslims today if they would want to see the Jews of Israel destroyed, most would say "yes"! Loving, kind and peaceful doesn't seem to match the behavior of the so called "moderate" Muslim/Arab world.

Here is a table showing how many Jews lived throughout the Muslim/Arab Middle East, and how many were driven out, losing all of their homes, businesses and possessions to "moderate" Muslims.

* In 1948 Algeria had 140,000 Jews. Today, less than 100.
* In 1948 Egypt had 75,000 Jews. Today, less than 100.
* In 1948 Iran had 100,000 Jews. Today, around 25000.
* In 1948 Iraq had 150,000 Jews. Today, around 35.
* In 1948 Lebanon had 20,000 Jews. Today, less than 100.
* In 1948 Libya had 38,000 Jews. Today 0.
* In 1948 Morocco had 265,000 Jews. Today, around 5,500.
* In 1948 Syria had 30,000 Jews. Today, less than 100.
* In 1948 Tunisia had 105,000 Jews. Today, around 1,500.
* In 1948 Yemen had 63,000 Jews. Today, less than 200.

Should you care? If you are not religiously intolerant or racist, you should care about and condemn the DAILY violent hatred coming out of the Muslim/Arab Middle East, not merely pop up when non-Muslims/Arabs finally have enough and strike back.

[Laila]

Yes. And the next time around there won't be any rocks. And if they won't want to be shot at, there won't be any rocks.

BTW, your comparison of collateral damage amongst the Arabs to Israeli civilian casualties is just pathetic.

Comparison?
Its factual what is happening.

194 reported dead in Gaza [so far]
1 Israeli

Does not take rocket science to figure out which is higher

[AlanSilver]

pleased to see at last something is being done. Lalia, love the way you live in London as I do and say that Israel shouldnt protect it's people. as usual Muslims cry foul when they are attcked but when they get on buses, trains and blow themselves up they are strangly quite.

I would hope the British government would protect me if someone was throwing bombs at London!!!

[KettleWhistle]

Comparison?
Its factual what is happening.

194 reported dead in Gaza [so far]
1 Israeli

Does not take rocket science to figure out which is higher
Absolutely irrelevant which is higher. It's not a numbers game.

[Laila]

Let's say Wales breaks off and becomes a separate country. And then they start lobbing rockets at Bristol and Gloucester, but they aren't too effective, they can only put 1lb of explosives because of the distance right now. And they rain down 10,000 rockets over the course of 3 years. Is England in the right to attack Wales? The Welsh rightly claim that the Angles from Denmark came over in the 1st - 4th centuries CE and dispossed the Welsh from Angleland, or England. The Welsh are just fighting for their homeland.

When IRA attacked London and even attempted to kill the PM, UK Military did not respond by bombing civilian areas and shutting off Ireland and blocking medical aid. They just did not do that because it would just escalate the problem

[Laila]

Absolutely irrelevant which is higher. It's not a numbers game.

Its not when its Palestinians who is higher.

I bet if it was Israel 195 and Palestinians 1 the tune would be different

[AlanSilver]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Gaza-Compounds-Attacked-By-Israeli-Airstrikes---Many-Casualties/Article/200812415194411?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15194411_Gaza_Compounds_Attacked_By_Is raeli_Airstrikes_-_Many_Casualties

also pleased to read that most posters on sky support Israel and can see through all the rubbish and propaganda put out by Hamas.

[Laila]

I would hope the British government would protect me if someone was throwing bombs at London!!!

As would i.
I'd be the first one advocating protecting the civilians from terrorists.

I would however condemn if it meant killing civilians :/

[Laila]

The Muslim/Arab world is taught to hate all non-Muslims. The profound loathing and hatred of the backward, violent, uncivilized Muslim/World is merely a normal part of the culture.


Please lady.
I have no time or energy to hate Jews.

I have my own problems here which involves attempting to pay the bills

[KettleWhistle]

Its not when its Palestinians who is higher.

I bet if it was Israel 195 and Palestinians 1 the tune would be different
Utter rubbish. Hamas can stop it anytime. They are the aggressors. Until they, the elected government of Gaza, a.k.a. Gaza, stop, the IDF should continue defending the country, regardless of how many Arab bystanders and non-uniformed terrorists die. It's a war, not a neighborhood squabble.

[AlanSilver]

As would i.
I'd be the first one advocating protecting the civilians from terrorists.

I would however condemn if it meant killing civilians :/

Difficult becuase these terriosts hide in civilian areas. the really sad thing is that Hamas and others think this is great for propaganda. if they cared about the civilian population they would be smuggling in food and supplies not weapons. also worth noting none of those civilians looked starving. I dont want anone to die but in any war people do.

Just because Israel has the most up to date weapons doesnt mean that the shouldnt use them becuase the other side doesnt.

[Laila]

Difficult becuase these terriosts hide in civilian areas. the really sad thing is that Hamas and others think this is great for propaganda. if they cared about the civilian population they would be smuggling in food and supplies not weapons. also worth noting none of those civilians looked starving. I dont want anone to die but in any war people do.

Just because Israel has the most up to date weapons doesnt mean that the shouldnt use them becuase the other side doesnt.

So Israel knows the response that Hamas wants to draw from them if they kill civilians yet Israel still continues to do it?
The utter stupidity.
Israel has achieved nothing except lose even more standing tbh. It has made itself out as the agressor not the one to be pitied despite the fact it was Israel provoked by Hamas

[CanDo]

Please lady.
I have no time or energy to hate Jews.

I have my own problems here which involves attempting to pay the bills

You seem to be taking the time to write intolerant posts against Jews, who are only trying to defend their own families from daily rocket attacks by the Muslims/Arabs of Gaza.

Perhaps your hatred or intolerance of Jews doesn't require much energy from you? :rolleyes:

[Laila]

You seem to be taking the time to write intolerant posts against Jews, who are only trying to defend their own families from daily rocket attacks by the Muslims/Arabs of Gaza.

Perhaps your hatred or intolerance of Jews doesn't require much energy from you? :rolleyes:

LOL :lol:
You have no idea how ironic that post is seeing my own nieces are Jewish

Yep yep, i hate them all apparentley.

defend their families by killing other families?
That is my only issue with this entire raid.

[CanDo]

So Israel knows the response that Hamas wants to draw from them if they kill civilians yet Israel still continues to do it?
The utter stupidity.

The only other choice is to do nothing and just allow the Arabs/Muslims of Gaza to terrorize Jewish families with daily missiles exploding around Jewish schools, homes and shops.

Aren't the Muslims/Arabs of Gaza more utterly stupid for electing these Hamas goons in the first place?!

Israel has achieved nothing except lose even more standing

Israel has knocked out a lot of Muslim/Arab terrorist structure and has managed to rid this world of many criminally insane or criminally indoctrinated terrorist beasts, AND the fine, most worthwhile work of Israel, to rid Gaza of terrorist garbage, is not yet over.

God speed and protect the IDF, and may Hamas be totally destroyed so that Muslim. Christian and Jew can build a path to peace for all.

[KettleWhistle]

defend their families by killing other families?
That is my only issue with this entire raid.
This raid targeted Hamas infrastructure, not "families". So stop lying and playing your little verbose games. These things are so common-sense, they don't really need any explanation unless you've got a mentality of a 5-year-old and is sitting there counting how many cute cuddly kitties got scratched.

[CanDo]

LOL :lol:
You have no idea how ironic that post is seeing my own nieces are Jewish


If true, which I doubt, I feel sorry that your nieces are exposed to your antiSemitism. It's bad enough for them to be exposed to antiSemitism away from their home.

[Steven]

Its not when its Palestinians who is higher.

I bet if it was Israel 195 and Palestinians 1 the tune would be different

They are Hamas terrorists and where were you when all the rockets were being shot in Israel? It is the same thing over and over. Muslims can attack who ever they want. But when people start fighting back, the Islamic world starts whining. They got what they deserved.


Scores Killed Across Gaza in Israeli Attack on Hamas
December 27, 2008

GAZA CITY — The Israeli Air Force on Saturday launched a massive attack on Hamas targets throughout Gaza in retaliation for the recent heavy rocket fire from the area, hitting mostly security headquarters, training compounds and weapons storage facilities, the Israeli military and witnesses said.

At least 140 Palestinians were killed and scores more wounded, according to the head of emergency services at the Gaza Ministry of Health.
Dr. Muawiya Hassanein, the head of emergency services at the Gaza Ministry of Health, said at least 140 Palestinians were killed in the raid.

Most were members of the security forces of Hamas, the Islamic group that controls Gaza, but a few civilians were also among the dead, including children. Scores more Palestinians were wounded. ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/wo...t.html?_r=2&hp

[ygalg1]

I wonder how many children will be killed by Israel through this attack :/
rephrasing wafa's quote
Why are you whine about many children will be killed by Israel through this attack in Gaza? The Koran has already infused them, Kill or get killed.
so they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that?
They want to die as shahids. They want to meet their 72 virgins. Israel aid them to meet them, so what's wrong with that?

[Laila]

rephrasing wafa's quote
Why are you whine about many children will be killed by Israel through this attack in Gaza? The Koran has already infused them, Kill or get killed.
so they kill and get killed. What is wrong with that?
They want to die as shahids. They want to meet their 72 virgins. Israel aid them to meet them, so what's wrong with that?

Erm, what 72 virgins?
Who ever you just quoted clearly must have forgotten there is no verse in the Qu'ran that talks about 72 virgins

[Steven]

So Israel knows the response that Hamas wants to draw from them if they kill civilians yet Israel still continues to do it?
The utter stupidity.
Israel has achieved nothing except lose even more standing tbh. It has made itself out as the agressor not the one to be pitied despite the fact it was Israel provoked by Hamas

Utter stupidity would be for Israel to do nothing. Muslims need to learn a lesson. You support or shelter terrorists, you will pay a price.


You see normal people do not consider Hamas members civilains. We consider them terrorists.

[bararallu]

Erm, what 72 virgins?
Who ever you just quoted clearly must have forgotten there is no verse in the Qu'ran that talks about 72 virgins

Houris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri), is that better?

[danholo]

Interesting stuff going on. Let's see what kind of counter offensive Hamas launches.

[ygalg1]

Erm, what 72 virgins?
Who ever you just quoted clearly must have forgotten there is no verse in the Qu'ran that talks about 72 virgins
where have she related virgins with Koran in that quote I brought?
read again:
They want to die as shahids. They want to meet their 72 virgins.

so why regard that to be troublesome, where it should be a joy for you?
their wishes are granted. you should be happy for them. after all islam preach that this life is not what importance. but afterlife. where 72 virgins awaits them. israel do them a big favor. instead of condemning israel, you should praising israel.

[Justcurious]

Houris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri), is that better?

An excellent link. The 72 virgins were familiar to me, too.

[Mosche]

A soldier against a few rocks? Wtf?
For Gods sake. Let me guess, you think the soldier should be allowed to open fire in 'defence' right?


I do! YES! YES! YES! A thousand times, YES!

[codedvirus]

An excellent link. The 72 virgins were familiar to me, too.

Till now they must have taken control over the Heaven ......:scratch:

[Mosche]

Comparison?
Its factual what is happening.

194 reported dead in Gaza [so far]
1 Israeli

Does not take rocket science to figure out which is higher


When a bully picks on another and, as a result, gets their arses kicked, the bully is not to be pitied. Similarly--I'll spell it out, just in case my analogy is too cerebral for you--when Palestinians and their advocates continue to shower Israel with rocket fire day in and day out, they shouldn't cry fowl when Israel pulls out the big guns.

If you--an advocate--do cry foul, SO WHAT! To use your terminology: "WHY SHOUD WE CARE WHAT YOU THINK?"

[ygalg1]

Till now they must have taken control over the Heaven ......:scratch:
"it's better to rule hell, than serve the heaven" :cool:

[CanDo]

... I bet if it was Israel 195 and Palestinians 1 the tune would be different

It has been Israel 195+ victims and the Palestinians 1 victim. In 2005 Israel pulled completely out of Gaza, and Israel then destroyed Jewish homes, businesses and thriving peaceful, civilized Jewish communities, such as Gush Katif. Since then the Gazan Muslims/Arabs have shot over 5,000 missiles into Israel towns and villages. It is a miracle that there haven't been thousands of Jewish deaths and injuries. But, there are tens of thousands of Jewish victims, who have to live in fear of daily rocket attacks from the barbaric, uncivilized Islamic trolls of Gaza!

In the meantime, the Muslims/Arabs of Gaza have replaced the civilized thriving, peaceful Jewish Gazan communities with uncivilized terrorist schools and infrastructures of hate and religious intolerance.

You obviously have problems understanding the difference between uncivilized barbaric terrorist camps, and civilized communities, who after being tormented for many years, finally decide they have had ENOUGH! :stick:

[CanDo]

Originally Posted by Laila
A soldier against a few rocks? Wtf?
For Gods sake. Let me guess, you think the soldier should be allowed to open fire in 'defence' right?

Response to Laila by Mosche: I do! YES! YES! YES! A thousand times, YES!

Thanks, I enjoyed your response! :clap:

[CanDo]

Erm, what 72 virgins?

Corrupt, morally perverse, criminal Islamic leaders brainwash and indoctrinate their ignorant peons through lack of education and training, in anything other than Islam. Muslims are suppressed sexually, on purpose, in order to further control the Muslim masses. Muslim men are forced-fed that they will get 72 virgins in Heaven, ONLY if they die for the Islamic cause, and Muslim women are brainwashed and indoctrinated to accept being treated worse than an animal, and having to coverup and hide their female sexuality, and surrender all authority to Muslim men and their corrupt, morally perverse, criminal Islamic leaders and government.

All of the Middle East is a huge, dark, depraved prison camp and cesspool, except for the democracy of Israel, the only shinning light in the Middle East.

[Mosche]

I just did a quick scan of the shell count thread, and I noticed that Laila had not made a single comment voicing her disdain of the violence being that was being inflicted on Israeli civilians. This is a serious accusation! She seems to argue that it's sad when Palestinian civilians are victims, but not a single comment when Israeli civilians are the victims. Pure duplicitousness.

[GratefulFred]

I am sure everyone but me missed this interesting bit of Arab propaganda.

The news reported that the attacks happened as children where going to and from school.

As far as I remember the Arab kids don't go to school on Saturday and even if they did what kid goes to school at noon?

The town just east of me got the siren tonight and we didn't.

The IDF better keep pounding them hard.

Bring Gilad back.

[andak01]

Absolutely irrelevant which is higher. It's not a numbers game.

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that. But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.

[Steven]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that. But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.

The Palestinians think that they are slick. They support and vote for Hamas, they do nothing to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. Then they whine when Israel fights back. Now they learn the hard way. They are a terrorist state, they have made their bed.

[serdar]

damn! I'm with you guys. revenge for mortar+qassam attacks

[GratefulFred]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that. But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.

Maybe you should look at all the Palestinian lives we'll be saving in the long run by taking Hamas out of power. Maybe with some moderates in power all our children will sleep well at night.

Don't ask our army to not act as an army.

Kill the root cause of the problem - Hamas. Fight for that goal.

[Yala]

Guys, why do you respond to people like Laila? Where has Laila been the last week when hundreds of rockets were fired on Israeli civilian towns and at kindergartens? Where has she been the last 8 years in fact when 10,400 rockets have been fired from Gaza? Cat got her tongue?

Now all of a sudden once Israel starts defending herself(finally) she appears on the forum like the phoenix with her calculator counting deaths and phony "both sides are to blame" rubbish which really doesn't deserve an answer.

Nobody needs a morality lesson from the likes of that one, nor does that one even deserve a response.

[Yala]

Maybe you should look at all the Palestinian lives we'll be saving in the long run by taking Hamas out of power. Maybe with some moderates in power all our children will sleep well at night.

Don't ask our army to not act as an army.

Kill the root cause of the problem - Hamas. Fight for that goal.

What moderates? I hope you are not fooling yourself into believing that the PA are moderate?

[KettleWhistle]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that. But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

It is not Israel's job to "control" (whatever you mean by that) Arab civilian casualties. They have their government. It is their government's job to protect them. If their government chooses to go to war, well, so be it.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.
Wonder how long it took you to come with that brilliant idea.:scratch:

[Mosche]

Andak wrote:

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism.

This is the difference: Israel doesn't TARGET RANDOM PALESTINIANS! Israel targets Hamas terrorists who hide behind Palestinian civilians. Israel could, if they were monsters on par with terrorists (i.e. murderers/Hamas), target every civilian in Palestine. Israel, however, targets the leaders, soldiers, and supporters of Hamas/terrorists/murderers. If civilians die, it's because their ELECTED leaders used them as pawns.

I have to say that for all of your posts, I am disappointed that you would suggest--even as a joke--that Israel kill random Palestinians. Your suggestion leads me to conclude that your thinking is similar to the terroristic mindset that you try to convince us that you deplore (i.e. just target random people).

It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.

The IDF doesn't have accidents, they have targets!

Palestinians who allow themselves to be used as shields are the ones who have accidents. Likewise, people who throw rocks have accidents.

[CanDo]

The news reported that the attacks happened as children where going to and from school.

As far as I remember the Arab kids don't go to school on Saturday and even if they did what kid goes to school at noon?

Most of the news organizations treat news releases from the backward, barbaric, uncivilized Islamic World as gospel, but seem to filter Jewish news releases through Islamic censors prior to publishing.

The town just east of me got the siren tonight and we didn't.

How often has your area been hit? Can you hear explosions? Can you see the smoke from the IDF strikes coming out of Gaza?

The IDF better keep pounding them hard.

I hope that Israel isn't "forced", once again, to back down before the job is done.

Bring Gilad back.

Perhaps some of the Palestinians will learn enough from this Israeli lesson so that there will NEVER be another Gilad taken by these murdering Islamic beasts.

At least, the more enemy dead, the fewer there will be to vote for Terrorist governments.

[redcake]

Look, everyone keeps saying you give land for peace and if the Palestinian Arabs continue to provoke war, then Israel is entirely justified to defend it's borders.... it's a war, and Israel has gone out of it's way even at the cost of it's own citizens well being to do so humanely....and for what? Nobody credits them or appreciates it, and instead world leaders at the UN are labeling Israel's handling of Gaza as the word atrocity, literally of all time.

So 200 lives? Sad they didn't fight their own leadership who keeps picking fights with Israel....what do they think Israel will do? Israel, this horrible violator of human rights. These people don't have any fear, this is what they wanted when they voted for Hamas, and this is what they wanted when they along with hundreds of thousands of other Arabs moved to Gaza to pile up along the borders and pose for pictures to create as much misery as possible. This is what they wanted. Even the few true Palestinians Arabs who do have any rightful claim to Israel are responsible, because they let this happen, they adopted the PLO rhetoric, and stood by passive while their towns grew and grew, as militarized zones....and they didn't say a word against it until Israel finally does something and attacks. They should rethink their strategy. They got their land, now gives us peace...and if not, then they can have the war they want so badly.

200 bodies to 1 Israeli. Sounds about right.
Isn't that the ratio Hamas established with the Gilad Shalit negotations?

Now Israel should do this weekly. Let's see how much the Arabs really want to govern the West Bank and be a Palestine after the terms change so Israel no longer stands as a punching bag.

[CanDo]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties.

Why? Does Hamas and Islamic Jihad play by that rule?

See if you can convince Hamas to avoid civilian casualties. If you can, then you might have the moral right to make demands of Jews that you don't make of Muslims.

[CanDo]

Guys, why do you respond to people like Laila? ... Nobody needs a morality lesson from the likes of that one, nor does that one even deserve a response.

I know it gets old and tiring responding to AntiSemites. It never ends, and it will never end. But if we don't respond then all of the distortions and lies and AntiSemitic propaganda goes unchallenged.

[CanDo]

The Palestinians think that they are slick. They support and vote for Hamas, they do nothing to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. Then they whine when Israel fights back. Now they learn the hard way. They are a terrorist state, they have made their bed.

Well put! :clap:

The Palestinians believed Hamas's promises to destroy Israel and to murder more Jews, and then voted the murdering Hamas beasts into office.

Would the Pals re-elect Hamas again next time? You bet they would. Muslim/Arab culture has been like that for hundreds of years, and it will be like that for hundreds more.

[ShimonG]

I accept religious intolerance?

How dare i as a human being condemn Israel in killing civilians! I mean, i must be a anti semetic; no wait, strike that. Hitler wannabe -.-'

You are a moslem. That's by definition an anti-semite. Go peddle your filth elsewhere.

Where the F were you when the rockets were raining down on us?

[KettleWhistle]

BTW, the media coverage of this is simply disgusting.

AP had headlines along the lines of "Israel kills 200 Palestinians", now changed to "Israeli F16 bombers pound Hamas sites, over 200 dead"

Reuters headlines were "Israeli attacks kill 195" coupled with pictures of injured children

CNN has a picture of child with blood on his/her face on their front page linking to the story. Title: "Israel vows to keep up Gaza attack; 205 dead." I think the implications here are obvious.

BBC had a discussion on whether collateral damages are a "collective punishment". There was absolutely no hint of the country's right to defend itself.

[Yala]

Don't care about the media, they are biased as usual. We need to start ignoring them and do what has to be done. That is the only way we'll be respected.

[redcake]

I believe Israel should respond to the media, formally.

They should explain in baby terms just why they are doing this. It should be about as short as our posts so it can be replayed again and again on all the networks and remind people that Gaza was cleansed, and Sderot has been under attack.

Israel should take this approach with each maneuver.

(CNN reporting IDF hit a mosque, or baby milk factory or something...here we go..... )

[Steven]

Don't care about the media, they are biased as usual. We need to start ignoring them and do what has to be done. That is the only way we'll be respected.

You are correct. Israel has to do what is best for Israel, and ignore the leftists and whining Muslims of the world. Hopefully it will get to the point where the world will stop trying to push Israel. Sort of like China and Russia. We don't see much world outcry on their actions, and that is because everyone knows that China and Russia do not care about world opinion and are going to do what ever they want anyway.

[NewsGuy]

I am in no way saying Hamas is innocent but when more civilians are being reported dead compared to militants. That is when you know Israel has a problem.
Please show me a link to a Muslim Web site where you express your humanitarian concerns about Hamas deliberately firing several hundred rockets into Israeli population centers this week?

It seems that when Muslim terrorists shoot into Jewish homes, kindergartens, temples, etc., people like you are silent. But... If Israel shoots back at the Muslim terrorists, well, then, it's a real humanitarian crisis, isn't it?

[Yala]

Please show me a link to a Muslim Web site where you express your humanitarian concerns about Hamas deliberately firing several hundred rockets into Israeli population centers this week?

It seems that when Muslim terrorists shoot into Jewish homes, kindergartens, temples, etc., people like you are silent. But... If Israel shoots back at the Muslim terrorists, well, then, it's a real humanitarian crisis, isn't it?

HAHAHAH. I think she disappeared after the first time you asked her. I'm reiterating though that hypocrites like this need not be addressed in teh first place. Let them high five each other on DKos. This mission made their afternoon. They can accuse Israel of genocide into the wee hours while staying glued to CNN.

[Yala]

We don't see much world outcry on their actions, and that is because everyone knows that China and Russia do not care about world opinion and are going to do what ever they want anyway.

Exactly.

I think Israel should remain as quiet as Russia was when they invaded Georgia.

[Yala]

Is it normal that on CNN's homepage they are showing a picture of a Hamas guy dead with his face blown off and blood all over? Shouldn't there be a warning before viewing such a disgusting picture?

[Mosche]

Is it normal that on CNN's homepage they are showing a picture of a Hamas guy dead with his face blown off and blood all over? Shouldn't there be a warning before viewing such a disgusting picture?

100% Normal! Any little thing that they can do to make their bleeding heart liberal viewers feel good about supporting Hamas is, from their perspective, normal.

[Madeline]

It is not Israel's job to "control" (whatever you mean by that) Arab civilian casualties. They have their government. It is their government's job to protect them. If their government chooses to go to war, well, so be it.


Wonder how long it took you to come with that brilliant idea.:scratch:
You hit the nail on the head. It is their Government that provoked it, and its their Governments that has blood on their hands
Brilliantly put. Laila missed that part.
You guys all bring wonderful arguments. I am awed. Thank you.:clap:

[Steven]

This has nothing to do with Palestinians getting the borders that they want. This has to do with Islam itself.

For years, Hamas has indiscriminately fired rockets, missiles and mortars into civilian areas in southern Israel. The range of Hamas's rockets has increased significantly and, as noted, more than a quarter of a million Israelis are now in range. Israel says it felt it had to respond to defend its own citizens.
Hamas is engaged in jihad or "holy" war. They are trying to eliminate Israel and take control of lands once controlled by Islam.
One of the points in their charter states: "The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of jihad be raised." (Article 15) This explains their incessant rocket attacks against Israel. Their goal, however, does not end with eliminating Israel but with establishing an Islamic caliphate in the Middle East on its way to the worldwide domination by Islam.


http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/508918.aspx

[redcake]

Steven - Not to entirely discount your point, as there's certainly truth to certain aspects of your point - the original PLO wasn't pushing religion. The Islamic aspect to the war against Israel is fairly new, though it does trace back to some Islamic reformists, and groups like Muslim Brotherhood.

[codedvirus]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that.

I agree on the above point. If few civilians were killed by accident then sadly but true they were innocent civilians.

If only Civilians are killed then that's a different story.

But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.

Going by your above equation.
What are the terrorists doing in a Civilian place. Don't the terrorists have their own isolated camps. Now this questions make me think are those civilians really innocent.

[Steven]

Steven - Not to entirely discount your point, as there's certainly truth to certain aspects of your point - the original PLO wasn't pushing religion. The Islamic aspect to the war against Israel is fairly new, though it does trace back to some Islamic reformists, and groups like Muslim Brotherhood.

Thanks buddy.:)

[Yala]

The Islamic aspect to the war against Israel is fairly new, though it does trace back to some Islamic reformists, and groups like Muslim Brotherhood.

Are you forgetting the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? You know, the one who met with Hitler in 1941 and wanted to build concentration camps for Jews in the Palestinian Mandate? Do you consider him a secular figure?

[redcake]

Are you forgetting the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? You know, the one who met with Hitler in 1941 and wanted to build concentration camps for Jews in the Palestinian Mandate? Do you consider him a secular figure?


like I said:
it does trace back to some Islamic reformists, and groups like Muslim Brotherhood.

That said, Pan Arabism has been a secular thing, often concurrent with Pan Islamism....if we're talking about Hamas and their rise, it's important to note that they were backed at different times from different sides in part because they were a religious based organization. We've had long periods where the movement was sustained even with Islam's goals obscured, and many of the PLO's biggest supporters were not Muslim, or supporters of Islam.

[Yala]

When they could use Islam to their advantage, they did so. They used it as their rallying cry time and time again. For example, Arafat was not a religious man, in fact he was a thief, murderer and deviant, but he was a big fan of the "jihad."

The Christian Arabs who rallied behind "Pan Arabism" thought they could save their hide. They were wrong.

and many of the PLO's biggest supporters were not Muslim, or supporters of Islam.

Yes, the left worldwide supported those terrorists and they also support the Islamists along with them today.

[scattergood]

When IRA attacked London and even attempted to kill the PM, UK Military did not respond by bombing civilian areas and shutting off Ireland and blocking medical aid. They just did not do that because it would just escalate the problem

The comparison you make is very different. The IRA were part of the population that England wanted to control in Norther Ireland. There it was a low intensity CIVIL WAR. The IRA weren't a democratically elected government of a contiguous territory. Please answer my question, your changing of subjects is down right andakian.

[kozzol]

The Irish Republican Army (IRA) were the military arm of the Sinn Fein, Irelands oldest political movement.

When IRA attacked London and even attempted to kill the PM, UK Military did not respond by bombing civilian areas and shutting off Ireland and blocking medical aid. They just did not do that because it would just escalate the problem

The British Goverment did have at one time a shoot to kill policy, which basically was the go ahead for the SAS to assassinate leading members of the IRA.

Unlike the supporters of Hamas, which is basically the population of Gaza, there was only several thousand IRA members and they lived amongst the non combatant population.

If the UK Goverment had a specific target, as Israel does Gaza, they would not have hesitated in taking the same measures as Israel.

[dayag]

The Irish Republican Army (IRA) were the military arm of the Sinn Fein, Irelands oldest political movement.



The British Goverment did have at one time a shoot to kill policy, which basically was the go ahead for the SAS to assassinate leading members of the IRA.

Unlike the supporters of Hamas, which is basically the population of Gaza, there was only several thousand IRA members and they lived amongst the non combatant population.

If the UK Goverment had a specific target, as Israel does Gaza, they would not have hesitated in taking the same measures as Israel.

I don't know if it is accurate, but supposedly Margaret Thatcher threaten to use nuclear weapons against Argentina during the Falkland War.

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

I applaud the current attacks in Gaza (long overdue), but if Israel limits itself to air strikes, we will not be successful in stopping the qassams. We are going to have to send in troops to destroy Hamas et al.

[ShimonG]

HAHAHAH. I think she disappeared after the first time you asked her. I'm reiterating though that hypocrites like this need not be addressed in teh first place. Let them high five each other on DKos. This mission made their afternoon. They can accuse Israel of genocide into the wee hours while staying glued to CNN.


Which begs also the question. Why are we indulging scum who jusify the slitting of a hindu soldiers' throat as "that's war"??

And now lets wait for this post to be deleted by some dhimmis!

[NewsGuy]

Which begs also the question. Why are we indulging scum who jusify the slitting of a hindu soldiers' throat as "that's war"??

And now lets wait for this post to be deleted by some dhimmis!

Shimon, please feel free to go to another forum where there are fewer dhimmis. I really think that you owe it to yourself.

[NewsGuy]

More pics of the end of the road for Hamas terrorists:

[kozzol]

I don't know if it is accurate, but supposedly Margaret Thatcher threaten to use nuclear weapons against Argentina during the Falkland War

It was the unspoken word, but we did have a nuculer submarine there throughout.

I am always miffed when I see all the Hamas supporters in Gaza marching down the road, chanting etc on their way to bury one of their comrades. Why dont Israel bomb the lot of them and deal with the consequences after.

We had 2000 protesters marching on the Isralie Embassy in London tonite, of course 99%muslims, shame they dont make a public out cry when Hamas bomb Israel.

[Achihud]

Absolutely right so long as efforts are made to control civilian casualties. If 194 of 194 were terrorists, I'm happy. If you show me that a few civilians were killed by accident, I can accept that. But we both no that won't be the case and this will continue the 10 to 1 and higher rate of civilians killed among the Palestinians. If 2 wrongs don't make a right then neither do 10.

Please, for the sake of the innocent civilians go and kill 3 random Palestinians for every Israeli ever killed by terrorism. It'll be three times less deadly than all these accidents caused by precision weapons.
Am I the only one who's getting real tired of this 3 to 1 innocent equation??

The Nazis used to kill 50 people standing randomly around one person and then walked away. How the **** is 3 to 1-reasoning any better then 50 to 1 when it comes to innocent people?
So everytime precision weapons are used, so it seems, you get the disproportionate measurement-complaint. Since posters like guilt-trip01 prefer to whine under any circumstance, why not trow a 1000 dumb bombs Dresden style. It sure will be a cheaper shorter less complicated victory. Enemies whether they be on the left or right will whine about it anyway.

I hope we are not that desperate for opposite opinions here to allow the kind of reasoning that would lead us to make a consideration like the Nazis did before!!

[CanDo]

More pics of the end of the road for Hamas terrorists:

These backward, violent, Hamas beasts are more human, now dead, than they ever were alive. They were soul-less corpses when they were alive and they are soul-less corpses now.

[CanDo]

Am I the only one who's getting real tired of this 3 to 1 innocent equation??

That type of logic is caused by faulty wiring in a brain's reasoning circuit, so to speak. That type of mind doesn't realize that terrorists deliberately hide among civilians so that they can kill and mutilate you and your family, and you won't do anything in return. You can rid the world of the Islamic terrorist vermin by wholesale bombing of the neighborhoods, where the Islamic terrorists hide among women and children, or you can do it Israel's way, through analysis, planning, intelligence, and coordination that insures the fewest civilian casualties.

Either way, the terrorists MUST be eliminated for there ever to be peace either for Jews or Palestinians.

andak01 obviously gives Israel very little credit for doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, and, probably, would turn a blind eye to atrocities committed by Muslims.

[Achihud]

That type of logic is caused by faulty wiring in a brain's reasoning circuit, so to speak. (...)
So there must have gone something terribly wrong prior to islamDOS;
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=281533&postcount=2

[Madeline]

Am I the only one who's getting real tired of this 3 to 1 innocent equation??

The Nazis used to kill 50 people standing randomly around one person and then walked away. How the **** is 3 to 1-reasoning any better then 50 to 1 when it comes to innocent people?
So everytime precision weapons are used, so it seems, you get the disproportionate measurement-complaint. Since posters like guilt-trip01 prefer to whine under any circumstance, why not trow a 1000 dumb bombs Dresden style. It sure will be a cheaper shorter less complicated victory. Enemies whether they be on the left or right will whine about it anyway.

I hope we are not that desperate for opposite opinions here to allow the kind of reasoning that would lead us to make a consideration like the Nazis did before!!

I guess a good thing to remember is that you can't please them all anyway. You're d...d if you do, and also if you don't.

[Steven]

More pics of the end of the road for Hamas terrorists:

About your signature.
Have we even seen Muslims say that Hamas is getting what they deserve? That they instigated this?

Your signature is dead on.

[Parsi]

I think, overall, the situation in Gaza is making a good propaganda for Hamas. We're not hearing anything about those Hamas operative who were among a large percentage of the casualties and the fact that Hamas DO use civilian locations to launch their rockets, etc....

Having said that it never gives me any pleasure hearing about the loss of innocent lives.

I thin the US and EU must intervene quickly to control the situation or Aljazira and their likes, will spin the whole situation to a powerful tool for Hamas.

The Mullahs of Iran have already issued a national mourning.

[Steven]

It was the unspoken word, but we did have a nuculer submarine there throughout.

I am always miffed when I see all the Hamas supporters in Gaza marching down the road, chanting etc on their way to bury one of their comrades. Why dont Israel bomb the lot of them and deal with the consequences after.

We had 2000 protesters marching on the Isralie Embassy in London tonite, of course 99%muslims, shame they dont make a public out cry when Hamas bomb Israel.

They do not even make a public outcry when Hamas kills other Palestinians.

I heard a Muslim man on the radio the other day and he said that they have no responsiblity to apologize to us. As we are not part of their family. Then they wonder why people speak out againt them.

[bararallu]

I think, overall, the situation in Gaza is making a good propaganda for Hamas. We're not hearing anything about those Hamas operative who were among a large percentage of the casualties and the fact that Hamas DO use civilian locations to launch their rockets, etc....

Having said that it never gives me any pleasure hearing about the loss of innocent lives.

I thin the US and EU must intervene quickly to control the situation or Aljazira and their likes, will spin the whole situation to a powerful tool for Hamas.

The Mullahs of Iran have already issued a national mourning.

There is no alternative to action at this point. If a British territory were shelled like this there would be use of WMDs by now. We should do a thorough job, Al Jazira and the BBC be damned.

In Egypt the Iranians are getting half the bad rep for this BTW.

[ShimonG]

Shimon, please feel free to go to another forum where there are fewer dhimmis. I really think that you owe it to yourself.

Naah. I think i'll stick around.

[Madeline]

I think, overall, the situation in Gaza is making a good propaganda for Hamas. We're not hearing anything about those Hamas operative who were among a large percentage of the casualties and the fact that Hamas DO use civilian locations to launch their rockets, etc....

Having said that it never gives me any pleasure hearing about the loss of innocent lives.

I thin the US and EU must intervene quickly to control the situation or Aljazira and their likes, will spin the whole situation to a powerful tool for Hamas.

The Mullahs of Iran have already issued a national mourning.
Do you foresee a US intervention now that transition is near? I doubt that anything will come from the EU.

[andak01]

Am I the only one who's getting real tired of this 3 to 1 innocent equation??


I'm sure not as tired as the families of the other 7 dead Palestinian civilians are. That number (200 in 2 years versus 23 from all rocket attacks since 2001) comes from Shin Bet, not from any bleeding hearts human rights group. And of course that count doesn't include what's occuring right now.

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/944263.html

[russellb]

I wonder how many children will be killed by Israel through this attack :/

Hard to know, though surely Hamas will inflate the numbers for their own propaganda. That being said, the death of any child, including the 2 Palestinian children killed by Hamas' misfired rocket last week, is a horrific tragedy.

I am confident that Israel does its best to avoid civilian casualties. Hamas, OTOH, specifically targets civilians with each missile launched. Each missile launched at civilians constitutes, by definition, a war crime, as you are undoubtedly aware. They are getting what's coming to them.

And to use your example, if the IRA had targeted British civilians on a daily basis with rocket attacks, you can bet the response would have been very severe.

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists

Well, If Hamas didn't embed themselves within the civilian population there would be much less of a problem in terms of deaths of Palestinian civilians. You imply that all Hamas operatives need to do is hide among civilian in order to avoid consequences for their actions. As you can see, such reasoning doesn't work very well.

[Madeline]

I'm sure not as tired as the families of the other 7 dead Palestinian civilians are. That number (200 in 2 years versus 23 from all rocket attacks since 2001) comes from Shin Bet, not from any bleeding hearts human rights group. And of course that count doesn't include what's occuring right now.

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/944263.html
Then by all means just tell Hamas to cool it. What did they expect? An invitation to a coffee clatch?

[bararallu]

The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.

And this is the fault of Terrorists or Israel?

Also more generally speaking, do you think that an overwhelming majority electing outright fascists, that call for genocide, should carry no consequences? when push comes to shove?

[Mosche]

What did they expect? An invitation to a coffee clatch?

:rofl:

[Tonto]

Hamas and islam has been getting away with murder for far too long. I applaud the fact that the Jews are giving them a little bit back. (Rock on Israel!!!) It's easy for apologists to say...."Well, geez, they killed two little school kids in collateral damage" without mentioning the 12,475 islamic attacks on innocents worldwide since 9/11 and the suicide bomber that killed 14 schoolkids in Afghanistan 2 days ago. Islam suck-ups just irk me and deserve no respect for their views. Islam is at war with the world whether the world recognizes that or not, and they deserve all the death and maiming they get for it. As far as the Israelis going into Gaza....as Geronimo said "They forget. We can go to THEIR towns and kill THEM". The Israelis are giving a lesson of "war begets war" right now, and hamas deserves it. I'd love to buy pizza and beer for the IDF.

[Madeline]

Hamas and islam has been getting away with murder for far too long. I applaud the fact that the Jews are giving them a little bit back. (Rock on Israel!!!) It's easy for apologists to say...."Well, geez, they killed two little school kids in collateral damage" without mentioning the 12,475 islamic attacks on innocents worldwide since 9/11 and the suicide bomber that killed 14 schoolkids in Afghanistan 2 days ago. Islam suck-ups just irk me and deserve no respect for their views. Islam is at war with the world whether the world recognizes that or not, and they deserve all the death and maiming they get for it. As far as the Israelis going into Gaza....as Geronimo said "They forget. We can go to THEIR towns and kill THEM". The Israelis are giving a lesson of "war begets war" right now, and hamas deserves it. I'd love to buy pizza and beer for the IDF.

I certainly agree with you, but I still mourn for innocent children. They are not on any side, they are just children.
The blame, of course, goes to Hamas and their hatred.

[andak01]

And this is the fault of Terrorists or Israel?

Also more generally speaking, do you think that an overwhelming majority electing outright fascists, that call for genocide, should carry no consequences? when push comes to shove?


Of the Electoral Lists, Hamas received 44.45% and Fatah 41.43%[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006#cite_note-0) and of the Electoral Districts, Hamas party candidates received 41.73% and Fatah party candidates received 36.96%.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006#cite_note-1)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_legislative_election,_2006

If you call 3-5% "overwhelming majority". Anyway, are you arguing for a collective punishment of deliberate negligent homocide of civilians? If the purpose is to shape Palestinian opinion by fear, that's terrorism.

[Steven]

I'm sure not as tired as the families of the other 7 dead Palestinian civilians are. That number (200 in 2 years versus 23 from all rocket attacks since 2001) comes from Shin Bet, not from any bleeding hearts human rights group. And of course that count doesn't include what's occuring right now.

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/944263.html

Lose the "few" nonsense already. :tdown: Palestine has made their bed.

The bottom line is that they voted them into office. Andak uses the usual Islamist excuse that the rockets going into Israel did not kill that many people. Well that is not from lack of trying.

[Reffo]

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.I have asked you this before andak: What relevance are the respective numbers killed? The only relevance is which side is the one that INSISTS on using VIOLENCE as a means of resolving their differences. And as we all know, that side is Hamas! Hamas is the one who is perpetuating this war in which civilians from both sides inevitably become casualties.

Now andak, here are some relevant World War 2 statistics for you:

German Civilians killed during World War 2: - 1,600,000
Japanese Civilians killed during World War 2: - 672,000
USA Civilians killed during World War 2: - 6000


http://www.world-war-2.info/casualties/

Notice that the ratio is more than 10 to 1 in America's favour yet I don't hear anyone claiming that America was the villain of WW2. Unless I am mistaken and you would be an exception?

[andak01]

...they killed two little school kids in collateral damage" without mentioning the 12,475 islamic attacks on innocents worldwide since 9/11 and the suicide bomber that killed 14 schoolkids in Afghanistan 2 days ago.

So you're saying that the civilians of Gaza are paying for a bus bombing in Afghanistan???

[Steven]

So you're saying that the civilians of Gaza are paying for a bus bombing in Afghanistan???

It is obvious as to what he is saying. The world is growing tiresome of the problems that Muslims are causing.

[andak01]

I have asked you this before andak: What relevance are the respective numbers killed? The only relevance is which side is the one that INSISTS on using VIOLENCE as a means of resolving their differences. And as we all know, that side is Hamas! Hamas is the one who is perpetuating this war in which civilians from both sides inevitably become casualties.

Hamas has already been listed as a terrorist organization, received numerous sanctions and the condemnation of most nations on the planet for what they did. It is possible for both sides in a conflict to commit war crimes however much both of us may hate Hamas.


Now andak, here are some relevant World War 2 statistics for you:

German Civilians killed during World War 2: - 1,600,000
Japanese Civilians killed during World War 2: - 672,000
USA Civilians killed during World War 2: - 6000



Not really that relavent. You've left out the British who did most of the fighting and received far more casualties. Half of America's civilian casualties were at Pearl Harbor.

I would imagine many Japanese consider what America did was a war crime, but then they don't write the history books.

Notice that the ratio is more than 10 to 1 in America's favour yet I don't hear anyone claiming that America was the villain of WW2. Unless I am mistaken and you would be an exception?

I wonder how different it would have been if the bomb had dropped on Rome or Berlin instead of Hiroshima.

[andak01]

It is obvious as to what he is saying. The world is growing tiresome of the problems that Muslims are causing.

"Growing tiresome" in other words justifying genocide? You'd really breath a little easier if you'd just say what you mean instead of playing cheerleader to those who do.

[Steven]

"Growing tiresome" in other words justifying genocide? You'd really breath a little easier if you'd just say what you mean instead of playing cheerleader to those who do.



Unlike you I state my agenda. There is no genocide going on, but I have to tell you, you said just like every other Arab.:tdown:

You might or might not hate Hamas but you are clearly more concerned with your Muslim brothers of Palestine than you are the people of Israel.

[Yala]

"Growing tiresome" in other words justifying genocide? You'd really breath a little easier if you'd just say what you mean instead of playing cheerleader to those who do.

Who's committing a genocide?

[Mil]

Andak has this tendency to defend Arabs.... like defending ethnic cleansing of Jews from Morocco. He is neither liberal nor a humanist.... just another Arab apologist.

[Reffo]

Hamas has already been listed as a terrorist organization, received numerous sanctions and the condemnation of most nations on the planet for what they did. It is possible for both sides in a conflict to commit war crimes however much both of us may hate Hamas.That's it? Just let's the Palestinian people off the hook? Now tell me andak: Would Hamas be a force to be reckoned with if they wouldn't have the support of a substantial proportion of the Palestinian people? Of course they wouldn't but they ARE in power because I seem to recall that a majority of the Palestinians voted for them and their agenda. Or are you suggesting that the Palestinian people didn't know that Hamas stands for war?

Now andak, here are some relevant World War 2 statistics for you:

German Civilians killed during World War 2: - 1,600,000
Japanese Civilians killed during World War 2: - 672,000
USA Civilians killed during World War 2: - 6000

Not really that relavent. You've left out the British who did most of the fighting and received far more casualties. Half of America's civilian casualties were at Pearl Harbor.And your point is.....? I can only think that your point is that because British civilians too were killed by the Germans and the Japanese, that justified the collateral damage to German and Japanese civilians too.... If that's what you are saying, I say fair enough but then I ask you: Why don't you apply the same logic to Israel? After all, Hamas deliberately targets and kills Israeli civilians so why should Israel avoid hitting Hamas in return, even if it means that some Palestinian civilians get into harms way as a result? What's the alternative for Israel? Let Hamas, who use civilians as a shield, get away with the murder of Israeli civilians?

I would imagine many Japanese consider what America did was a war crime, but then they don't write the history books.No doubt they did and some still do. But I asked you as an American: What do you think of it? After all, Truman did not make that decision lightly. But at the end, he weighed up the cost in American lives as against the cost of Japanese lives and he decided that American lives were more precious. And I don't know that too many Americans disagreed with him at the time. Now, why do you think that Israelis should be any different?

Notice that the ratio is more than 10 to 1 in America's favour yet I don't hear anyone claiming that America was the villain of WW2. Unless I am mistaken and you would be an exception?
I wonder how different it would have been if the bomb had dropped on Rome or Berlin instead of Hiroshima. Do you think that America would have been condemned more? I certainly don't think so, nor should they have been.

But consider this: Although THE BOMB was not dropped on Berlin or Rome, Dresden was literally incinerated by phosphor bombs (mainly by the Brits). And guess what: Estimates of civilian casualties vary greatly, but recent publications place the figure between 24,000 and 40,000.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Yet never heard the usual suspects claiming that Germany was being victimized by the Brits and that the Brits were villains for having done that. It's what I have been telling you: This is what happens in war! War is to blame and the people who start and perpetrate wars!

So andak, you shouldn't complain about the ratio of civilian deaths! You should complain about the war! Because without the war that the Palestinian people have been waging on Israel for nearly 100 years, there wouldn't be ANY dead civilians on either side!

[Reffo]

By the way, the United Kingdom civilian casualties were: 92,700. So even with the combined USA and UK civilian casualties the ratio was still better than 10 to 1 in favour of the Americans and the Brits..... And I reiterate: Almost no one considers them to be THE VILLAINS of WW2 (nor should they)!

[Yala]

PLEASE do not allow him to hijack this thread with any more of his stupid comparisons between WW2 or the LAPD or a genocide with this Israeli mission in Gaza.

[Reffo]

PLEASE do not allow himWho are you talking to and who are you talking about?

to hijack this thread with any more of his stupid comparisons between WW2 or the LAPD or a genocide with this Israeli mission in Gaza.Stupid? Which part of it? And where did the LAPD come into it?

Have you a bee in your bonnet Yala? Please let it all hang out...

[codedvirus]

Who are you talking to and who are you talking about?

Stupid? Which part of it? And where did the LAPD come into it?

Have you a bee in your bonnet Yala? Please let it all hang out...

YALA is talkig about andak01.


Originally Posted by andak01 Thread Name - Way to go IDF
Well armed drug dealers operate out of urban areas around the world. You don't hear about the LAPD bombing appartment buildings after an officer gets killed. Even in a war zone like Iraq, massive civilian casualties are up for scrutiny and sometimes prosecution.

[Reffo]

codedvirus

Thank you but I think she maybe talking about me too. After all, I brought up the WW2 comparison. I may be wrong ... Yala can clarify it if she wants to but if I am right, I'll just move on. I don't want to have a silly argument with another pro Israeli, at least not about this particular topic. There are enough anti Israel polemicists we can both argue with separately.

[Madeline]

PLEASE do not allow him to hijack this thread with any more of his stupid comparisons between WW2 or the LAPD or a genocide with this Israeli mission in Gaza.
I agree with you about not having this thread hijacked by andak's wandering of into Muslim apology land, but the comparison between WWII civilian genocide and the genocide now is there.
He brings up American/French, British, Japanese civilian casualties, but I am surprised that none mention the Jewish civilian casualties.
That is what ties is together.
So, back to the original thread,Hamas might count come civilians casualties, but it is by their own doing by hiding behind women and children. For them, nothing is sacred, not one human life, just as it was for the Nazis. It is all for 'the cause' and to satisfy their obvious hatred.

[Aysun]

It is obvious as to what he is saying. The world is growing tiresome of the problems that Muslims are causing.

really? I think you need to open your eyes man cause world is already tiresome of the problems that USA is causing by invading Iraq and Afganhistan and intervening in the internal affairs of the other countries! try to clean your mess first before throwing mud to the others!

[CanDo]

... it never gives me any pleasure hearing about the loss of innocent lives.

Innocent? The hatred and religious intolerance that is spewed against not only Jews, but Christians and Hindus and others, throughout the Muslim Middle East is not innocence, but what causes worldwide misery for those of other religions, nationalities and cultures.

When Jewish families are murdered, the innocents of Gaza hand out candy and celebrate.

I truly care about the suffering of innocent, "decent" families. I care NOTHING for the "innocent" victims of Gaza, whether they be terrorists or their supporters.

[Parsi]

Do you foresee a US intervention now that transition is near? I doubt that anything will come from the EU.

Well it's possible. Obama needs a little foreign 'project' to demonstrate his confidence and EU leaders could also use a little diversion in the current economical climate.

Hopefully the world now can see that Gaza needs sorting out.

[codedvirus]

really? I think you need to open your eyes man cause world is already tiresome of the problems that USA is causing by invading Iraq and Afganhistan and intervening in the internal affairs of the other countries! try to clean your mess first before throwing mud to the others!


September_11,_2001_USA_attacks
October_12_2002_Bali_bombings
11_March_2004_Madrid_train_bombings
7_July_2005_London_bombings
26_November_2008_Mumbai_attack
..........
the list is 2 big for me.

That's what you call internal affairs.


Steven please don't link this attacks to Buddhism.

[CanDo]

They do not even make a public outcry when Hamas kills other Palestinians.

In the Muslim world it seems that it is only a crime if fellow Muslims are killed by other religions. Muslim wifes and girlfriends are burned to death, by their husbands or boyfriends and Muslim children are murdered by their parents. With a culture like that, how is world peace ever going to be possible?

Muslims have a strange, violent, backward and hateful culture.

[Parsi]

Innocent? The hatred and religious intolerance that is spewed against not only Jews, but Christians and Hindus and others, throughout the Muslim Middle East is not innocence, but what causes worldwide misery for those of other religions, nationalities and cultures.

When Jewish families are murdered, the innocents of Gaza hand out candy and celebrate.

I truly care about the suffering of innocent, "decent" families. I care NOTHING for the "innocent" victims of Gaza, whether they be terrorists or their supporters.

That really depends how you define innocence and how you value life in general. As far as I'm concerned an unarmed 10 year old who doesn't know enough about this world is innocent be it Arab, Israeli, or whatever.

Seeing a rocket scar on the face of an Israeli child hurts me as much a Palestinian's.

A child is child only that Hamas scum bags feed those children with hatred of Jews from birth.

[Madeline]

In the Muslim world it seems that it is only a crime if fellow Muslims are killed by other religions. Muslim wifes and girlfriends are burned to death, by their husbands or boyfriends and Muslim children are murdered by their parents. With a culture like that, how is world peace ever going to be possible?

Muslims have a strange, violent, backward and hateful culture.
Don't forget those being stoned to death because they have been raped. God forbit punishing the rapists. They are men after all.

[CanDo]

I'm sure not as tired as the families of the other 7 dead Palestinian civilians are. That number (200 in 2 years versus 23 from all rocket attacks since 2001) comes from Shin Bet, not from any bleeding hearts human rights group. And of course that count doesn't include what's occuring right now.

So they kill ten times and more as many civilians by accident than Hamas does on purpose and nobody finds that strange. The IDF is taking down entire buildings full of people to get at a few terrorists.

Oh golly, gee whiz! Let's all cry for these poor Palestinian victims, who pass out candy and celebrate when Jewish families are murdered and maimed, and who openly support Islamic terrorist attacks against others, AND have elected a terrorist government!

Don't you think that, if a society or culture openly supports hatred, racism and violence against others that it may someday come back to bite them? Karma is a btch, isn't it?

[Madeline]

really? I think you need to open your eyes man cause world is already tiresome of the problems that USA is causing by invading Iraq and Afganhistan and intervening in the internal affairs of the other countries! try to clean your mess first before throwing mud to the others!

This is plain anti American left wing propaganda, and has nothing to do with this.

[codedvirus]

That really depends how you define innocence and how you value life in general. As far as I'm concerned an unarmed 10 year old who doesn't know enough about this world is innocent be it Arab, Israeli, or whatever.

Seeing a rocket scar on the face of an Israeli child hurts me as much a Palestinian's.

A child is child only that Hamas scum bags feed those children with hatred of Jews from birth.

School trains suicide bombers By Jeremy Cooke in Gaza

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm

[CanDo]

... do you think that an overwhelming majority electing outright fascists, that call for genocide, should carry no consequences?

Right!

The Palestinians have taken 60+ years to build a society of racism, religious intolerance, hatred and violence, while Israel has built a society of laws and justice and schools and hospitals and science and education and civilized behavior and has protected it's civilized society by having to build a powerful military to keep Israel safe from hostile, belligerent Muslim neighbors.

Will the Palestinians wake up and chose peace with Jews rather than another 60 years of misery, violence and hatred against Jews?

I doubt it.

So....... God speed the valiant members of the IDF, :clap: and keep them and the good people of Israel safe.

[Madeline]

School trains suicide bombers By Jeremy Cooke in Gaza

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm

That is true, and I see your point, but they are innocent children nonetheless, helpless against this indoctrination. I don't blame the children, but the parents who give their children for 'the cause'.

[codedvirus]

That is true, and I see your point, but they are innocent children nonetheless, helpless against this indoctrination. I don't blame the children, but the parents who give their children for 'the cause'.

No one will blame the children but something has to be done. I don't even see any future of those kids. The world will see that innocent children are killed by Israeli Strikes...... Thats the sad part of the story.

[Madeline]

No one will blame the children but something has to be done. I don't even see any future of those kids. The world will see that innocent children are killed by Israeli Strikes...... Thats the sad part of the story.
So true.

[Aysun]

September_11,_2001_USA_attacks
October_12_2002_Bali_bombings
11_March_2004_Madrid_train_bombings
7_July_2005_London_bombings
26_November_2008_Mumbai_attack
..........
the list is 2 big for me.

That's what you call internal affairs.
.


AND WHAT DOES ALL OF THESE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ??????

that's what I call internal affairs. you created your own terrorists by attacking and invading other countries' territories. you look for the problem in your governments' stupid actions first before blaming other religions..

[Aysun]

This is plain anti American left wing propaganda, and has nothing to do with this.

NO , this is called the "reality"!

[codedvirus]

AND WHAT DOES ALL OF THESE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ??????

that's what I call internal affairs. you created your own terrorists by attacking and invading other countries' territories. you look for the problem in your governments' stupid actions first before blaming other religions..

Aysun when was Iraq invaded?


Saddam Hussein’s al Qaeda Connections

As for Hussein’s supposedly imaginary ties to al Qaeda, consider these disturbing facts:
• The Philippine government expelled Hisham al Hussein, the second secretary at Iraq’s Manila embassy, on February 13, 2003. Cell phone records indicate that the Iraqi diplomat had spoken with Abu Madja and Hamsiraji Sali, leaders of Abu Sayyaf, just before and just after their al Qaeda-allied Islamic militant group conducted an attack in Zamboanga City. Abu Sayyaf’s
nail-filled bomb exploded on October 2, 2002, injuring 23 individuals and killing two Filipinos and U.S. Special Forces Sergeant First Class Mark Wayne Jackson, age 40. As Dan Murphy wrote in the Christian Science Monitor last February 26, those phone records bolster Sali’s claim in a November 2002 TV interview that the Iraqi diplomat had offered these Muslim extremists Baghdad’s help with joint missions.

• The Weekly Standard’s intrepid reporter Stephen F. Hayes noted in the magazine’s July 11, 2003, issue that the official Babylon Daily Political newspaper published by Hussein’s eldest son, Uday, had revealed a terrorist connection in what it called a “List of Honor” published a few months
earlier.xx The paper’s November 14, 2002, edition gave the names and titles of 600 leading Iraqis and included the following passage: “Abid Al-Karim Muhamed Aswod, intelligence officer responsible for the coordination of activities with the Osama bin Laden group at the Iraqi embassy in Pakistan.” That name, Hayes wrote, “matches that of Iraq’s then-ambassador to
Islamabad.”
Carter-appointed federal appeals judge Gilbert S. Merritt discovered this document in Baghdad while helping rebuild Iraq’s legal system. He wrote in the June 25 issue of the Tennessean that two of his Iraqi colleagues remember secret police agents removing that embarrassing edition from newsstands and confiscating copies of it from private homes.xxi The paper was not published for the next 10 days. Judge Merritt theorized that the
“impulsive and somewhat unbalanced” Uday may have showcased these dedicated Baathists to “make them more loyal and supportive of the regime” as war loomed.

• Abu Musab al Zarqawi, formerly the director of an al Qaeda training base in Afghanistan, fled to Iraq after being injured as the Taliban fell. He received medical care and convalesced for two months in Baghdad. He then opened an Ansar al Islam terrorist training camp in northern Iraq and arranged the October 2002 assassination of U.S. diplomat Lawrence Foley in Amman,
Jordan.

• Although Iraqi Ramzi Yousef, ringleader of the February 26, 1993, World Trade Center (WTC) bombing plot, fled the United States on Pakistani papers, he came to America on an Iraqi passport.

• As Richard Miniter, author of this year’s bestseller Losing bin Laden, reported on September 25, 2003, on the Tech Central Station webpage,
“U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, Saddam’s hometown, which shows Iraq gave [al Qaeda member] Mr. [Abdul Rahman] Yasin both a house and a monthly salary.” The Indiana-born, Iraqi-reared Yasin had been charged in August 1993 for mixing the chemicals in the bomb
that exploded beneath One World Trade Center, killing six and injuring 1,042 individuals.xxii Indicted by federal prosecutors as a conspirator in the WTC bomb plot, Yasin is on the FBI’s Most- Wanted Terrorists list.xxiii ABC News confirmed, on July 27, 1994, that Yasin had returned to Baghdad, where he traveled freely and visited his father’s home almost daily.

• Near Iraq’s border with Syria last April 25, U.S. troops captured Farouk Hijazi, Hussein’s former ambassador to Turkey and suspected liaison between Iraq and al Qaeda. Under interrogation, Stephen Hayes reports, Hijazi “admitted meeting with senior al Qaeda leaders at Saddam’s behest in 1994.”

• While sifting through the Mukhabarat’s bombed ruins last April 26, the Toronto Star’s Mitch Potter, the London Daily Telegraph’s Inigo Gilmore, and
their translator discovered a memo in the intelligence service’s accounting department. Dated February 19, 1998, and marked “Top Secret and Urgent,” the document said that the agency would pay “all the travel and hotel
expenses inside Iraq to gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden, the Saudi opposition leader, about the future of our relationship with him, and to
achieve a direct meeting with him.” The memo’s three references to bin Laden were obscured crudely with correction fluid.

These facts directly refute the claims of Senator Rockefeller and Secretary Albright menmentioned at the top of this article. The ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda are clear and compelling.

Saddam Hussein’s Ties to the September 11 Conspiracy

Despite the White House’s inexplicable insistence to the contrary, tantalizing clues suggest that Saddam Hussein’s jaw might not have dropped to the floor when fireballs erupted from the Twin Towers two years ago.

• His Salman Pak terror camp taught terrorists how to hijack passenger jets with cutlery, as noted earlier.

• On January 5, 2000, Ahmad Hikmat Shakir— an Iraqi VIP facilitator reportedly dispatched from Baghdad’s embassy in Malaysia—greeted
Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi at Kuala Lampur’s airport, where he worked. He then escorted them to a local hotel, where these September 11 hijackers met with 9-11 conspirators Ramzi bin al Shibh and Tawfiz al Atash.
Five days later, according to Stephen Hayes, Shakir disappeared. He was arrested in Qatar on September 17, 2001, six days after al Midhar and al Hamzi slammed American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon, killing 216 people. Soon after he was apprehended, authorities discovered documents on Shakir’s person and in his apartment connecting him to the 1993 WTC bomb plot and “Operation Bojinka,” al Qaeda’s 1995 plan to blow up 12
jets simultaneously over the Pacific.

• Although the Bush administration has expressed doubts, the Czech government stands by its claim that September 11 leader Mohamed Atta met in Prague in April 2001 with Ahmed Khalil Ibrahim al Ani, an Iraqi diplomat/intelligence agent. In a February 24 letter to James Beasley Jr., a Philadelphia lawyer who represents the families of two Twin Towers casualties, Czech UN Ambassador Hynek Kmonicek embraced an October 26,
2001, statement by Czech Interior Minister Stanislav Gross:

In this moment we can confirm, that during the next stay of Mr. Muhammad [sic] Atta in the Czech Republic, there was the contact with the official of the Iraqi intelligence, Mr. Al Ani, Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir, who was on 22nd April 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities which were not compatible with the diplomatic status.”

Al Ani was expelled two weeks after the suspected meeting with Atta for apparently hostile surveillance of Radio Free Europe’s Prague headquarters. That building also happened to house America’s anti-Baathist station,
Radio Free Iraq. The Czech government continues to claim, in short, that the 9-11 mastermind Atta met with at least one Iraqi intelligence official in the
months during which the attacks were orchestrated.

• A Clinton-appointed Manhattan federal judge, Harold Baer, ordered Hussein, his ousted regime, Osama bin Laden, and others to pay $104 million in damages to the families of George Eric Smith and Timothy Soulas
(clients of Beasley, the aforementioned attorney), both of whom were killed in the Twin Towers along with 2,750 others. “I conclude that plaintiffs have shown, albeit barely, ‘by evidence satisfactory to the court’ that Iraq provided material support to bin Laden and al Qaeda,” Baer ruled. An airtight case? Perhaps not, but the court found that there was sufficient evidence to tie Saddam Hussein to the September 11 attacks and secure a May 7 federal judgment against him.
If one takes the time to connect these dots—as is the professional duty of journalists and politicians who address this matter—a clear portrait emerges of Saddam Hussein as a sugar daddy to global terrorists including al Qaeda and even the 9-11 conspirators. As Americans grow increasingly restless about Washington’s continuing military presence in Iraq, to say nothing of what people think overseas, the administration ought to paint this picture. So why won’t they?

[CanDo]

... but I still mourn for innocent children. They are not on any side, they are just children.
The blame, of course, goes to Hamas and their hatred.

I mourn more for the next generation of innocent Gazan children, who will be exposed to misery, religious intolerance and racial hatred over the next 60 years, unless Israel is able to rid Gaza of the Islamic Hamas vermin that infects the area and the minds of the children of the area.

[andak01]

I agree with you about not having this thread hijacked by andak's wandering of into Muslim apology land, but the comparison between WWII civilian genocide and the genocide now is there.

He brings up American/French, British, Japanese civilian casualties, but I am surprised that none mention the Jewish civilian casualties.
That is what ties is together.

I did think of Jewish casualties, but the most massive of those were not in what is now Germany, but in Poland.

So, back to the original thread,Hamas might count come civilians casualties, but it is by their own doing by hiding behind women and children. For them, nothing is sacred, not one human life, just as it was for the Nazis. It is all for 'the cause' and to satisfy their obvious hatred.

You totally confuse criticism of specific Israeli tactics with support of Hamas. If I was to condemn the Mi Lai massacre, that doesn't make me soft on communism or an apologist for Vietnam. I invite Israel to use the best tactics that will end the conflict. Killing terrorists will do that, killing babies won't.

I'm looking at the pictures of destruction from this weekend's operations and I see entire buildings leveled in the midst of residential areas. I saw rows of cars blown to bits. Explain to me how a hiding terrorist requires the destruction of an entire building. Do you not have snipers? Infrared imaging of what's happening inside? Night vision? Is it harder for you to miss civilians by a factor of ten than it is to hit them when they aim directly at civilian areas. That stretches the imagination.

[CanDo]

... Andak uses the usual Islamist excuse that the rockets going into Israel did not kill that many people.

Imagine being a child in Sderot, waiting for a missile to come crashing through your bedroom ceiling, while trying to sleep (if they can), or waiting for a missile to strike while walking to school, or sitting in school!

Sirens going off every day, warnings about Palestinian terrorist threats on buses, in restaurants, while driving one's car....... no one, certainly not children should have to live in fear each and every day, month after month, year after year.

Andak does not hold the Palestinian society accountable, at all, for the violence and misery that the Palestinians cause, every day, each day, every month, ALWAYS!

To those like Andak, it is acceptable to teach Muslim kids hatred towards Jews, and Christians and all other non-Muslims, and teach kids to act out their hatred with violent games and slogans.

Then....... the Andaks of the world cry when the perverted, hate-filled culture of the Palestinians comes back at them.

What is amazing to any civilized human being is that the Palestinians celebrate and hand out candy when one of their children blows themselves up to harm other families. That is insane!

[codedvirus]

I did think of Jewish casualties, but the most massive of those were not in what is now Germany, but in Poland.

I'm looking at the pictures of destruction from this weekend's operations and I see entire buildings leveled in the midst of residential areas. I saw rows of cars blown to bits. Explain to me how a hiding terrorist requires the destruction of an entire building. Do you not have snipers? Infrared imaging of what's happening inside? Night vision? Is it harder for you to miss civilians by a factor of ten than it is to hit them when they aim directly at civilian areas. That stretches the imagination.

From where shall the snipers take the shot?

I have got a better idea. We can tell the terrorists to come outside and then take the shot. Andak01 you really rock.

[CanDo]

really? I think you need to open your eyes man cause world is already tiresome of the problems that USA is causing by invading Iraq and Afganhistan and intervening in the internal affairs of the other countries! try to clean your mess first before throwing mud to the others!

The violent, backward, hateful Muslim dictatorships will always be tired of America's attempts to bring freedom and democracy to others, but the mad-dog tyrants who run the Middle East prefer their brutal dictatorships to freedom and democracy.

In your eyes, the brutal, murdering Taliban was just wonderful and not tiresome, as they starved or brutally murdered the women of Afghanistan. The daily executions by the Taliban weren't tiresome, IN YOUR EYES, but the US attempt to build schools and roads and infrastructure is tiresome?

Saddam Husseins "meat grinder", which was frequently used to kill whoever he wanted, in a horrible, sadistic way, was not tiresome to you, but the US attempting to bring freedom and democracy in Iraq is tiresome?

All of Europe owes their freedom and democracy to America, and of course, this is tiresome to tyrants and Islamic radicals, but, fortunately, America has stayed strong and has not listened to those who prefer enslavement rather than freedom.

[Madeline]

I did think of Jewish casualties, but the most massive of those were not in what is now Germany, but in Poland.



You totally confuse criticism of specific Israeli tactics with support of Hamas. If I was to condemn the Mi Lai massacre, that doesn't make me soft on communism or an apologist for Vietnam. I invite Israel to use the best tactics that will end the conflict. Killing terrorists will do that, killing babies won't.

I'm looking at the pictures of destruction from this weekend's operations and I see entire buildings leveled in the midst of residential areas. I saw rows of cars blown to bits. Explain to me how a hiding terrorist requires the destruction of an entire building. Do you not have snipers? Infrared imaging of what's happening inside? Night vision? Is it harder for you to miss civilians by a factor of ten than it is to hit them when they aim directly at civilian areas. That stretches the imagination.

My point were civilian Jewish casualties during the Nazi regime Where it happened makes me no never mind.

[Madeline]

The violent, backward, hateful Muslim dictatorships will always be tired of America's attempts to bring freedom and democracy to others, but the mad-dog tyrants who run the Middle East prefer their brutal dictatorships to freedom and democracy.

In your eyes, the brutal, murdering Taliban was just wonderful and not tiresome, as they starved or brutally murdered the women of Afghanistan. The daily executions by the Taliban weren't tiresome, IN YOUR EYES, but the US attempt to build schools and roads and infrastructure is tiresome?

Saddam Husseins "meat grinder", which was frequently used to kill whoever he wanted, in a horrible, sadistic way, was not tiresome to you, but the US attempting to bring freedom and democracy in Iraq is tiresome?

All of Europe owes their freedom and democracy to America, and of course, this is tiresome to tyrants and Islamic radicals, but, fortunately, America has stayed strong and has not listened to those who prefer enslavement rather than freedom.
:clap: Bravo

[kozzol]

I some times wonder if people think that Israel has just looked at ariel maps of Gaza and decided that this building and that building look good targets, so they bomb them?

Israel is very good at gathering intelligence and people should reliase that this defencive has probably been in the making for several months, so these buildings have been observed and the home work done.

...Explain to me how a hiding terrorist requires the destruction of an entire building....

Rather foolish to suggest that, no different than the same ones who suggest that Israel is carrying out a genocide.

[andak01]

My point were civilian Jewish casualties during the Nazi regime Where it happened makes me no never mind.

However, to Reffo's defense, Jewish casualties does nothing to further his argument. That would be like counting Palestinians murdered by Hamas as Palestinian civilian casualties. I haven't done that. Although we did have a poster here counting Afghan schoolbus casualties as a cause for Israeli reprisals. That sort of thing gets a free pass around here.

Frankly, yes, forgive me, but I do hold Israel to a higher moral standard than Hamas which is already decried as a terrorist organisation. I accept some civilian casualties among Palestinians and none among Israelis. That is a difference worth noting.

[codedvirus]

I some times wonder if people think that Israel has just looked at ariel maps of Gaza and decided that this building and that building look good targets, so they bomb them?

Israel is very good at gathering intelligence and people should reliase that this defencive has probably been in the making for several months, so these buildings have been observed and the home work done.


Rather foolish to suggest that, no different than the same ones who suggest that Israel is carrying out a genocide.

Andak01 has some ideas how to kill those terrorists using Snipers & night visions. Please let him say.

[CanDo]

That really depends how you define innocence and how you value life in general. As far as I'm concerned an unarmed 10 year old who doesn't know enough about this world is innocent be it Arab, Israeli, or whatever.

I am saddened by anyone's misery, whether adult or child, but Hamas didn't exist when Jews had to flee, to the land of Israel, from Egypt and Jordan and Iraq and Iran and Lebanon and Syria and Morocco and Tunisia and Yemen and Algeria and, of course, from throughout Europe and Asia!

The Muslim children of decades ago are the ones who inflict misery on Jews today. And...... the Muslim children of today, will be the ones who inflict misery on others tomorrow. It is a never ending cycle that needs to be broken.

So....... if Yassin, Mashaal, Haniyeh, Rantisi or Arafat had died as a child, it would have been a good thing, not a bad thing.

Seeing a rocket scar on the face of an Israeli child hurts me as much a Palestinian's.

I don't feel the same as you do. I am sick and tired of Jewish children constantly being victimized, while the Muslim world and Muslim culture celebrates.

How about some of this misery deservedly shared with the Muslims?

A child is child only that Hamas scum bags feed those children with hatred of Jews from birth.

A pit bull that is taught to be violent and to attack humans, is still a threat, no matter how much one loves dogs. If you get custody of that pit bull, you can change it's behavior, but in most cases it is not possible to get custody.

[Tonto]

Hamas has been a part of the unrelenting hatred thing going on for 60+ years there. Israel, the US, and a bunch of muz countries have tried to get them to stop and to help finance some kind of civilized growth there......but I guess hamas doesn't care who they hurt, certainly not their own. How much money have they put into weapons and shot at Israel versus how much toward education, medical facilities, and infrastructure for a civilized society? Hamas and people like them are criminals and thugs! The Israelis suffer, the palestinian people suffer, and the world suffers.....for what? So some muz wanker can pound his chest and scream "allah akbar"? This ain't a high school football game but I think these hamas idiots treat it like one. They've proved one thing, they sure don't give a damn about human life....women, kids, old folks, or whatever....nor do they care if it's muz, Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, or anything else....if it moves they want to kill it. Bunch of damn psychotics. I don't think there's enough thorozine in the world for these guys.......we're gunna have to use bullets.

[Madeline]

However, to Reffo's defense, Jewish casualties does nothing to further his argument. That would be like counting Palestinians murdered by Hamas as Palestinian civilian casualties. I haven't done that. Although we did have a poster here counting Afghan schoolbus casualties as a cause for Israeli reprisals. That sort of thing gets a free pass around here.

Frankly, yes, forgive me, but I do hold Israel to a higher moral standard than Hamas which is already decried as a terrorist organisation. I accept some civilian casualties among Palestinians and none among Israelis. That is a difference worth noting.
Was it not yo who becried civilian casualties? So, because they were Jewish, they are not a fitting argument? Just making sure I understand you correctly.

[bararallu]

AND WHAT DOES ALL OF THESE HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ??????

that's what I call internal affairs. you created your own terrorists by attacking and invading other countries' territories. you look for the problem in your governments' stupid actions first before blaming other religions..

It has nothing to do with Iraq per se. Except:

1. Iraq exported terrorism just like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan et al do today.
2. It propped up the PLO and caused immense damage to the region, including Israel, Lebanon and Jordan.
3. It built nuclear weapons plant that Israel had to destroy.
4. It attacked Israel and Kuwait, and Iran as well actually.
5. It committed acts of genocide against it's non Arab Sunni population.
6. It moved some WMD stockpile to the Syrians before the invasion, this we know for sure. Some of these could eventually be used against both you and us, since we are allied states.
7. It ethnically cleansed all Jews from the country at gun point.
8. It violated numerous UN resolutions regarding much of the above.

The last is no big whoop of course. That said, Turkey supported most of those resolutions. It participated in the first Iraq war, it also supports all the resolutions concerning Afganistan. Turkey was instrumental in helping support the Afghani northern Alliance as well.

[andak01]

Was it not yo who becried civilian casualties? So, because they were Jewish, they are not a fitting argument? Just making sure I understand you correctly.

No, you do not understand me correctly, and I've made myself as clear as I can. Any Jewish or Israeli civilian casualties are looked upon by me as an act of terrorism. That is not true of Palestinian civilian casualties within limits. If reasonable and credible efforts are made to reduce civilian casualties, AS IS OFTEN THE CASE, I have no problem and no criticism of IDF tactics. Witness my silence over repeated incursions in recent months. Only in those notorious cases where my own government sees fit to make statements requesting restraint do I even bring this up. And I don't think it's fair to say that, because of that, I'm a Hamas sympathizer, which I am not. Quite the contrary. I want a solution to the issue that discredits Palestinian propaganda that the IDF is targetting civilians.

[bararallu]

No, you do not understand me correctly, and I've made myself as clear as I can. Any Jewish or Israeli civilian casualties are looked upon by me as an act of terrorism. That is not true of Palestinian civilian casualties within limits.

Did Israel carpet bomb, napalm or randomly shell Gaza?... which it can, both tactically (efficiency), technically (it has the arms) and ethically (since Hamas breached the Geneva Conventions and the population overwhelmingly voted for Hamas). I dont think you appreciate how violent a response would be.... say if Russia or China had suffered the same. Not comparing here, just making sure you understand that targeted munitions are expensive and unnecessary in almost all cases.

[CanDo]

... but they are innocent children nonetheless, helpless against this indoctrination. I don't blame the children, but the parents who give their children for 'the cause'.

Civilized families want to protect their own children. If a family fears harm will come to their own children, they will do everything that they can to protect their children.

That doesn't seem to apply to Muslim families. It's their choice: peace and safety for Jewish children and their own children, or peace and safety for NONE!

It is only when Muslim families realize that, if they harm Jewish children, then their own children will be harmed, that there might finally be peace.

That said, then the ONLY way to a long lasting peace would be to inflict the same, or worse damage to Muslim families as they would inflict on your family.

Golda Meir said in 1957, over five decades ago: “Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

That can be repeated today, and unless Israel follows through, regardless of civilian casualties, then the Jewish leaders of tomorrow will be repeating the same phrase.

[CanDo]

I invite Israel to use the best tactics that will end the conflict. Killing terrorists will do that, killing babies won't.

Killing Muslim babies might be the ONLY true and just route to a long lasting peace. The ONLY way that the Palestinian parents will be forced to chose peace over barbarism and terrorism against Jews, would be to let them know that if they don't stop the terrorism, that their families will be harmed, the same harm as they pray to happen to Jewish families.

Normal, civilized parents, who want to protect their own families and children would stop trying to murder other people's children, if they knew, FOR SURE, that the same would happen to their own.

The murder of children is abhorrent, barbaric and uncivilized behavior, but in this case it might be necessary.

[andak01]

The killing of non-combattant children is barbaric, abhorrant behavior, full stop, end of sentence. There isn't any BUT about it. The BUT gives creds to Hamas and I'm not willing to do that. The BUT is a slippery slope that never ends. I condemn any imam who ever said BUT and any Arab politician who said BUT and any African dictator and your statement is to be condemned. You give credence to terrorism when you, with an overwhelming military superiority chose terrorism instead of military victory as a method.

[scattergood]

"Growing tiresome" in other words justifying genocide? You'd really breath a little easier if you'd just say what you mean instead of playing cheerleader to those who do.

Your illogic and stupidity really do know no bounds. The population of Gaza has increased WILDLY while under Israel's control. Not so successful at committing genocide.

Also, only in your weird and warped world is Israel to be blamed for genocide by targeting Hamas who has dug themselves into buildings and bunkers next to schools and apartments.

You want to reward Hamas for being successful at driving up their own people's death toll by digging in so well in schools. You clearly want to reward their terrorist ways, thanks for being so obvious. Your Islamist apologist ways are being shows in every post you make.

[bararallu]

The killing of non-combattant children is barbaric, abhorrant behavior, full stop, end of sentence. There isn't any BUT about it. The BUT gives creds to Hamas and I'm not willing to do that. The BUT is a slippery slope that never ends. I condemn any imam who ever said BUT and any Arab politician who said BUT and any African dictator and your statement is to be condemned. You give credence to terrorism when you, with an overwhelming military superiority chose terrorism instead of military victory as a method.

Then you condemn pretty much every Imam that rendered a decision on Israel in the Middle East and elsewhere.

[CanDo]

The killing of non-combattant children is barbaric, abhorrant behavior, full stop, end of sentence.

I agree with you agreeing with me. :p

There isn't any BUT about it. The BUT gives creds to Hamas and I'm not willing to do that.

If Palestinian families knew that their own families would be harmed, the same as they wished on others, then they would stop their culture of barbarism, misery and terrorism.

Answer this for me, will you?

You have a family directly across the street from you that is constantly trying to murder your children. They hide behind their own women and children, because, that way, they feel that they can safely kill your children.

And....... you have other neighbors popping up beside you that feel the same way, about wanting to kill your children.

What do you do, allow your neighbors to kill your children? Or do you fire back, regardless of killing their children, to make it known to all of your neighbors that they will pay a heavy price for attacking your family.

[andak01]

Your illogic and stupidity really do know no bounds. The population of Gaza has increased WILDLY while under Israel's control. Not so successful at committing genocide.

Yeah. Why don't you try reading what I wrote? The poster was justifying future targetting of Muslim babies which hasn't happened. It wasn't me exclaiming that genocide already had happened. I don't think excessive civilian casualties constitutes genocide and I never said such a thing.

Killing Muslim babies might be the ONLY true and just route to a long lasting peace.

That's what I was responding to. I don't see anything there about any past event and my response didn't refer to any past event. So don't accuse me of calling Israel genocidal when I've never even come close to saying that.

Scattergood, so far as I can tell, you don't believe that killing Muslim babies is the only route to a long lasting peace. Stop trying to discredit me over things I haven't said.

Also, only in your weird and warped world is Israel to be blamed for genocide by targeting Hamas who has dug themselves into buildings and bunkers next to schools and apartments.

If Israel approached the issue with the actions suggested by the poster, yes, they could be blamed. But I didn't say that had already happened, merely that the poster had suggested it.

You want to reward Hamas for being successful at driving up their own people's death toll by digging in so well in schools. You clearly want to reward their terrorist ways, thanks for being so obvious. Your Islamist apologist ways are being shows in every post you make.

In what way do I want to reward them? Have you any evidence that I have offered a reward for Hamas? Is fewer killed babies considered a reward these days?

[Steven]

really? I think you need to open your eyes man cause world is already tiresome of the problems that USA is causing by invading Iraq and Afganhistan and intervening in the internal affairs of the other countries! try to clean your mess first before throwing mud to the others!

Yes really, the world is getting sick of what Islam brings to this world and the US had every right in the world to into Afghanistan.


Originally Posted by andak01
I invite Israel to use the best tactics that will end the conflict. Killing terrorists will do that, killing babies won't.

Why don't you stop already? Hamas will never stop.

[Steven]

Iranian group registers volunteers to fight Israel
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
TEHRAN, Iran – A group of influential conservative Iranian clerics launched an online registration drive on Monday seeking volunteers to fight against Israel in response to its air assault on the Gaza Strip.
About 3,550 people registered Monday with the Combatant Clergy Society's Web site. The weeklong online campaign gives volunteers three options on ways they can fight Israel: military, financial and propaganda.
The group, which has considerable political and economic power in Iran, did not provide further details on the program including how it would contact the volunteers or implement the program.
The conservative clerics decided to sign up volunteers after Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, issued a religious decree on Sunday that said anyone killed while defending Palestinians in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip against Israeli attacks would be considered a martyr.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_israel

[Yala]

Who are you talking to and who are you talking about?

Andak, Laila, anybody who didn't say a word about rockets for 8 years and are all of a sudden pretending to be liberal or humanists as Mil stated.

Stupid? Which part of it? And where did the LAPD come into it?

Have you a bee in your bonnet Yala? Please let it all hang out...

He's hijacking all the Gaza threads making comparisons between the LAPD and the IDF and WW2 and the IDF. In the next breath he will get all original on us and call it a Holocaust.

No, a bee is not in my bonnet, but that expression did make me laugh.

[Madeline]

It has nothing to do with Iraq per se. Except:

1. Iraq exported terrorism just like Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan et al do today.
2. It propped up the PLO and caused immense damage to the region, including Israel, Lebanon and Jordan.
3. It built nuclear weapons plant that Israel had to destroy.
4. It attacked Israel and Kuwait, and Iran as well actually.
5. It committed acts of genocide against it's non Arab Sunni population.
6. It moved some WMD stockpile to the Syrians before the invasion, this we know for sure. Some of these could eventually be used against both you and us, since we are allied states.
7. It ethnically cleansed all Jews from the country at gun point.
8. It violated numerous UN resolutions regarding much of the above.

The last is no big whoop of course. That said, Turkey supported most of those resolutions. It participated in the first Iraq war, it also supports all the resolutions concerning Afganistan. Turkey was instrumental in helping support the Afghani northern Alliance as well.
Very nicely put. And its the truth, no less.

[redcake]

"if we give them gaza they'll just use it to strategically attack israel"

"but then israel can really hit back and the world will support her"

+++++

"they won't stop firing rockets at us, we have to respond"

"terrorism! genocide! holocaust!"

[Yala]

"but then israel can really hit back and the world will support her"


Hhahaahah I think I used this during disengagement. I'm not sure if I said the world would support her though. In any case, I don't think Israel should concern herself with world support. I don't care to hear any of this "light unto nations" BS either. I think Israel should learn a thing or 2 from Russia.

[Anatolia]

I think, overall, the situation in Gaza is making a good propaganda for Hamas. We're not hearing anything about those Hamas operative who were among a large percentage of the casualties and the fact that Hamas DO use civilian locations to launch their rockets, etc....

Having said that it never gives me any pleasure hearing about the loss of innocent lives.

I thin the US and EU must intervene quickly to control the situation or Aljazira and their likes, will spin the whole situation to a powerful tool for Hamas.

I agree 100%.

[Anatolia]

...

[Anatolia]

...

[Steven]

I generally don't want to make a comment about regional issues but I see that the things are going worse.Hamas is a terrorist organisation and carries out daily rocket attacks on Israel. But by reacting in such a strong way Israel is actually strengthening the legitimacy of Hamas in the eyes of the Palestinian people and making it more difficult for oppositions (if there is) to oust Hamas.I mean if there were new elections such reactions could cause Hamas to extend their power.. I think Israel should be more careful,especially about civilian losts.I am saying that as a friend of Israel.

Israel should do what they have to do. Muslims play a game of supporting and sheltering terrorist groups. Then they complain when others fight back. They have to learn a lesson. Just like the Hezbollah supporters in Lebanon will.

Parsi,
Should Israel dictate the way that they run their country based on the media?

[andak01]

Anatolia, you're talking to the deliberately deaf. If you don't cheer for civilian casualties among the Palestinians, you're considered as bad as a Hamas suicide bomber around here. Then again, if you did cheer, you'd be called a fifth column liar just by virtue of your nickname.

[Tonto]

Andak, you talk about NOT killing kids but the muz world has over and over PROVEN that they target ANYBODY, kids included, if they can get a "good" body count.....for example, the car bomb/suicide in Afghanistan that killed 14 schoolkids....it was OBVIOUS that he targeted those kids....he clearly waited for them to get in a position for optimum effect. Islam has Proven that it doesn't matter who dies as long as they're killing somebody. Islam is everywhere. Islam is made up of every race in the world except one. And everywhere islam exists, there is terror, murder, rape, intimidation and threats. This tells me something. This tells me that no muz is a non-suspect. It tells me that anywhere there are muz, me and my kids and my grandkids and even my frickin dogs are potential targets. I think the whole religion should be stamped out where ever it is. I think it is a sickness without any redeeming aspects. For starters, I think that every muz should be exited from the US and all future immigration, or even visits, should be forbidden....totally. All mosques should be destroyed and forbidden. If Europe is smart, they'll do the same thing. I got a feeling that it won't be long before violence between native Europeans and muz infiltrators will escalate and get real nasty anyway. If Israel wastes a few kiddies while targeting hamas, then tough bezots.....nits make lice anyhow. They asked for it, they're getting it. Happy, happy!! Yippie!

[Anatolia]

Anatolia, you're talking to the deliberately deaf. If you don't cheer for civilian casualties among the Palestinians, you're considered as bad as a Hamas suicide bomber around here. Then again, if you did cheer, you'd be called a fifth column liar just by virtue of your nickname.

Then I can ask you why they elected one of the bloodiest terrorist organization? Terrorism is enough,hamas caused the situation today,all the governments must isolate Hamas,just like they isolated Haider.

[CanDo]

... But by reacting in such a strong way Israel is actually strengthening the legitimacy of Hamas in the eyes of the Palestinian people.

So, what would you do with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, just slap them on the wrist and let them continue to batter your communities for another eight years, and with thousands more, of larger and more destructive missiles? :rolleyes:

Do you really think that this is just a game of politics and that there aren't real Jewish victims of Palestinian terrorism?

The route to a true and lasting peace is through the destruction of the criminally insane or criminally indoctrinated Islamic beasts.

[andak01]

Andak, you talk about NOT killing kids but the muz world has over and over PROVEN that they target ANYBODY, kids included, if they can get a "good" body count.....for example, the car bomb/suicide in Afghanistan that killed 14 schoolkids....it was OBVIOUS that he targeted those kids....he clearly waited for them to get in a position for optimum effect.

Member of Hamas was he? Paid by Hamas? Has a relative in Hamas? Any relation to Hamas whatsoever? Yet you use that example thousands of miles distant to justify the killing of kids?

Islam has Proven that it doesn't matter who dies as long as they're killing somebody. Islam is everywhere. Islam is made up of every race in the world except one.

I'm sorry?

And everywhere islam exists, there is terror, murder, rape, intimidation and threats.

Then according to that logic, one would expect that places where Islam is not, there is no murder, rape intimidation and threats. But then aren't you a sentence away from threatening me because I'm Muslim?

This tells me something. This tells me that no muz is a non-suspect. It tells me that anywhere there are muz, me and my kids and my grandkids and even my frickin dogs are potential targets. I think the whole religion should be stamped out where ever it is.

I'd consider that a threat, and if I took you seriously, I might be intimidated. As it is, you are the same kind of fringe clown that comes here because there is no place for you in politics.

I think it is a sickness without any redeeming aspects. For starters, I think that every muz should be exited from the US and all future immigration, or even visits, should be forbidden....totally. All mosques should be destroyed and forbidden. If Europe is smart, they'll do the same thing.

This same "thing" hasn't been done and isn't going to be done and is only going to be spoken about by fringe bigots such as yourself.

I got a feeling that it won't be long before violence between native Europeans and muz infiltrators will escalate and get real nasty anyway. If Israel wastes a few kiddies while targeting hamas, then tough bezots.....nits make lice anyhow. They asked for it, they're getting it. Happy, happy!! Yippie!

Funny how you picked up that phrase. That's what my ancestors used as they genocided North American Indians. Pardon me for calling you out for the scum you are.

[CanDo]

... If you don't cheer for civilian casualties among the Palestinians, you're considered as bad as a Hamas suicide bomber around here. ...

Causing many civilian casualties, especially among the terrorist's family's, is the ONLY way to teach these rabid, backward Palestinian beasts that the only way to protect their own families is to stop their attacks against Jewish families.

They stop attacking our family, and we will stop attacking their's. That is the way it should be.

[Steven]

Then according to that logic, one would expect that places where Islam is not, there is no murder, rape intimidation and threats. But then aren't you a sentence away from threatening me because I'm Muslim?

Islam encourages these actions, no one needs your sick ideology.
Then andak quickly runs to the victim card.



I'd consider that a threat, and if I took you seriously, I might be intimidated. As it is, you are the same kind of fringe clown that comes here because there is no place for you in politics.

Andak insults the board again. Nice to see you always making friends.:lol:

This same "thing" hasn't been done and isn't going to be done and is only going to be spoken about by fringe bigots such as yourself.

The backlash is coming and more and more people are callling for it. In Europe they have started hanging dolls of your terrorist child rapist buddy Mohammad. Islam will go down. According to andak the Islamist, if we do not accept the bigotry of Islam, we are bigots.:rolleyes:

Funny how you picked up that phrase. That's what my ancestors used as they genocided North American Indians. Pardon me for calling you out for the scum you are.


Andak has been throughly exposed in this thread and his true colors of hate come out.

[ShimonG]

Andak has this tendency to defend Arabs.... like defending ethnic cleansing of Jews from Morocco. He is neither liberal nor a humanist.... just another Arab apologist.

Actually, an islam apologist. He's defended the vile acts of moslems the world over.

[ShimonG]

Andak does not hold the Palestinian society accountable, at all, for the violence and misery that the Palestinians cause, every day, each day, every month, ALWAYS!

To those like Andak, it is acceptable to teach Muslim kids hatred towards Jews, and Christians and all other non-Muslims, and teach kids to act out their hatred with violent games and slogans.

Then....... the Andaks of the world cry when the perverted, hate-filled culture of the Palestinians comes back at them.

What is amazing to any civilized human being is that the Palestinians celebrate and hand out candy when one of their children blows themselves up to harm other families. That is insane!

He's never held moslems or islam accountable in general. This is not a moderate moslem, but the vanguard of islam terrorism tasked with blunting the response of the kaffir. Lets not blame him for doing the job's he's been assigned to do. Its up to us to either kick him out or failing that to answer his taqqiya.

[Anatolia]

So, what would you do with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, just slap them on the wrist and let them continue to batter your communities for another eight years, and with thousands more, of larger and more destructive missiles? :rolleyes:

I dot not understand much about this stuff but Israel has the technology to target where the rockets are being fired from and fire back, they should use this method instead of striking back with full force.It will not end terror,on the contrary it will just help Hamas. Isolating Hamas is the only way to stop their terror.But not just Israel,all the governments in the region,the EU,the UN must act together and isolate Hamas.The question now: Will they do?

Do you really think that this is just a game of politics and that there aren't real Jewish victims of Palestinian terrorism?

Why are you asking me this question,I already stated my view about Hamas.

[Anatolia]

Causing many civilian casualties, especially among the terrorist's family's, is the ONLY way to teach these rabid, backward Palestinian beasts that the only way to protect their own families is to stop their attacks against Jewish families.

They stop attacking our family, and we will stop attacking their's. That is the way it should be.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?

[andak01]

Causing many civilian casualties, especially among the terrorist's family's, is the ONLY way to teach these rabid, backward Palestinian beasts that the only way to protect their own families is to stop their attacks against Jewish families.

Uh Steven, ShimonG??? Any complaint about deliberately causing civilian casualties??? That's a very clear call to terrorism. If you support that, then you have no right to condemn the preaching of hatred against you as I have condemned such preaching so many times.

I will continue to condemn the preaching of hatred against you, even as you daily preach hatred against me because it's the right thing to do. I think reasonable, respectable Israelis should distance themselves from that sort of venom.

[Anatolia]

Why most of the discussions turn into personal debates here?

[Tonto]

Mr. Adnak, Was the guy hamas? Maybe. Foreign fighters come from all over to splatter themselves in glorious jihad in Iraq and Afghanistan ....and anywhere else they decide to act stupid. Prove to me he wasn't. Somebody could have sprung for his travel costs, maybe you? Every race but one......native Americans.
Where islam exists..... although bad stuff happens where there ain't no muz, after prayer and getting jizzed up by the preacher, islamic looney tunes often run out to do damage to the nearest non-muz they can find. That's documented in several countries, and is often covered up....after all though....12,480 muz attacks on others can't be wrong. If that doesn't prove how nuts and violent muz are, nothing does.
I said islam should be exited (caused to leave). I said all muz should be deported and mosques destroyed....after all, they would be happier where sharia exists, right? How could that be even vaguely construed as a threat? Are you a discussionist or an idiot? At least I don't call people names----that's the last resort of someone who is beaten and has no viable answer, so that must be where you are. You must know that islam is evil. The proof positive is written everywhere in the world. You are just so evil and imbued with evil that you try to dissemble and make apologies and fruitless attempts to, bluntly, lie your way into making people think it ain't so bad. Islam is bad. It's horrible as a matter of fact. You need to get a grip on reality and admit that. You're a pitiful person. Bless your heart.

[Tonto]

Collateral damages by Israel are unfortunate, but meaningless. Hamas, and the palestinians, should thank their moon god that the war being fought against them now is far past WWII and where civilian populations were purposly targeted as they were seen as the enemy's power base. Read up on the Tokyo fire storm...and what was Hiroshima's and Nagasaki's A-bombs targeted to? Many folks feel that unnecessary care is being taken to exclude civilian casualties, and much more expensive than is necessary. Like, why use a multi million dollar smart bomb when napalm or willie pete will do just fine. After all, the muz NORMALLY target civilians in suicide and car bombings...read the news!

[bararallu]

I generally don't want to make a comment about regional issues but I see that the things are going worse.Hamas is a terrorist organisation and carries out daily rocket attacks on Israel. But by reacting in such a strong way Israel is actually strengthening the legitimacy of Hamas in the eyes of the Palestinian people and making it more difficult for oppositions (if there is) to oust Hamas.I mean if there were new elections such reactions could cause Hamas to extend their power.. I think Israel should be more careful,especially about civilian loses.I am saying that as a friend of Israel.

Anatolia,

Why do you think this was an overly strong action? Israel used targeted munitions. It attacked terrorists in their camps and their infrastructure. The Terrorists, being well Terrorists, used every opportunity to embed themselves in every and all civilian heavy areas, in order to use civilians as human shields. This is their doing specifically, just like Hizboallah did the same in Lebanon. This action is really different than what the US (w/ Turkish help did in Gulf War I) in fact a lot more careful. In one day Kuwait threw out more Palestinians then there are living in Gaza. Under gunpoint and not a few murders (probably numbered in the same really). In 2 weeks Jordan slaughtered more Palestinians then there are fighting age men in Gaza. In 3 months more Palestinians (mostly civilians) died at the hands of Amal Shia in South Lebanon then we have killed armed terrorists in a decades of war. In one day Syria slaughtered more Sunni Arabs then the combined casualties in all ME wars. There are scores of examples where use of force by Arab against arab dwarf any measure we are taking. And yet there wasn't virtually one peep in the news about it. Not sure of course, but did you consider that you are being baited by the MSM in Turkey and elsewhere? The Palestinians are the darlings of the Left and cannon fodder for the rest of the Arabs.

Also what the Turkish premier said the other day warrants a downgrade in Israeli-Turkish relations. And I'm speaking as a consistent and strong supporter of the Turkish-Israeli regional friendship, and out-most supporter of Turkish territorial integrity. No time in history did an Israeli PM or President ever say anything publicly concerning any internal Turkish military action, hell not even external action in Iraq of late. I'm really disappointed I must say.

[Tonto]

bararallu, dang! Good post! You sure help me make my point. There has been more killing by islam than Hitler or Stalin or maybe even Mao thought about, and nobody seems to pay attention. Pitiful to the max! And for what? Nobody seems able to, or willing to, explain that. What's it all about? Land? Religion differences? Power/machismo/posturing (or dick beating)? But it's OK, we have those that will try to dissemble and apologize.......and we know who they are.

[andak01]

I said islam should be exited (caused to leave).

The term is ethnically cleansed.

I said all muz should be deported and mosques destroyed....after all, they would be happier where sharia exists, right?

I'm sure you'd like to think that none of us is anything other than Taliban.

Are you a discussionist or an idiot?

English is my first language. Discussionist isn't a word.

At least I don't call people names---

muz

nits make lice

Nits would be pregnant women and lice would be babies that you have no compunction about killing. What a charming person you are. Hitler would have said vermin, but you have chosen a good ol' American quote that refers to ethnic cleansing.

[Anatolia]

Anatolia,

Why do you think this was an overly strong action? Israel used targeted munitions. It attacked terrorists in their camps and their infrastructure. The Terrorists, being well Terrorists, used every opportunity to embed themselves in every and all civilian heavy areas, in order to use civilians as human shields. This is their doing specifically, just like Hizboallah did the same in Lebanon. This action is really different than what the US (w/ Turkish help did in Gulf War I) in fact a lot more careful. In one day Kuwait threw out more Palestinians then there are living in Gaza. Under gunpoint and not a few murders (probably numbered in the same really). In 2 weeks Jordan slaughtered more Palestinians then there are fighting age men in Gaza. In 3 months more Palestinians (mostly civilians) died at the hands of Amal Shia in South Lebanon then we have killed armed terrorists in a decades of war. In one day Syria slaughtered more Sunni Arabs then the combined casualties in all ME wars. There are scores of examples where use of force by Arab against arab dwarf any measure we are taking. And yet there wasn't virtually one peep in the news about it. Not sure of course, but did you consider that you are being baited by the MSM in Turkey and elsewhere? The Palestinians are the darlings of the Left and cannon fodder for the rest of the Arabs.

I am aware of all the things you said above,well I do not expect any logical act from Arab States.They are the biggest source of the regional and international terror,that's the fact.Also I know very well that Arabs have much more rights in Israel than any Arab country. but I still believe that this latest action will not help Israel in any way and it will not end terror,it will just help Hamas,think about it.


Also what the Turkish premier said the other day warrants a downgrade in Israeli-Turkish relations. And I'm speaking as a consistent and strong supporter of the Turkish-Israeli regional friendship, and out-most supporter of Turkish territorial integrity. No time in history did an Israeli PM or President ever say anything publicly concerning any internal Turkish military action, hell not even external action in Iraq of late. I'm really disappointed I must say.

I understand you bararallu. Well,this is not the first time Erdoğan is doing that. Do you know how many crisis did he cause in Turkey since he came to power? As I said before (if you read my previous posts) we have a prime minister who is going to European capitals and urging them to act together against Turkey if the constitutional court close their party. He represents his ideology instead of Ataturk's Turkey. I think Israel doesn't have much expectations from him,instead they prefer to deal with the army.Like the Syria operation..

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411398606&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

[Anatolia]

Terror organizations like Hamas,Al Fatah should not be allowed to participate in elections.That's ridiculus.

[CanDo]

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?

Not at all.

A strong deterrent to terrorist attacks would be, if the terrorist beasts knew that they were going to get it worse. It's that simple.

Tiny Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world, not because they want to, but because they have to. Without a strong military, Israel would have been wiped off the map a long time ago.

Israel's military capabilities is what has kept it's neighbors more peaceful. However, the military is not an effective deterrent, if it is not used appropriately.

With terrorist animals like Hamas, the military must be used to bring fear and terror to the terrorists and their families. You would be amazed at how soon peace would come if the terrorists realized that their families would no longer be safe.

[Achihud]

Andak has this tendency to defend Arabs.... like defending ethnic cleansing of Jews from Morocco. He is neither liberal nor a humanist.... just another Arab apologist.
I think andak01 has been a t-e-rr-ibly d-i-s-c-o-n-n-e-c-t-e-d leftist for the biggest part of his life until the latest fashion for unsatisfied wandering souls led him per accident to islam and to Morroco and now he MUST STAY eternally grateful for that.

Would that be too wild of a guess? Anyway, I have 20 bucks to spare.

[CanDo]

... Israel has the technology to target where the rockets are being fired from and fire back, they should use this method instead of striking back with full force.

In your opinion Israel has the capability to stop the rockets, and choses not to use it?

Why not?

What types of capabilities would be able to target someone setting up a missile between homes, firing it and then quickly leaving the area? What type of capability would be able to target a missile silo, protected by reinforced concrete in the middle of a crowded neighborhood?

Do you know something that no one else knows?

Isolating Hamas is the only way to stop their terror.

How do you isolate Hamas?

But not just Israel,all the governments in the region,

How do you stop Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hezbollah and Muslims throughout the Middle East, from supplying Hamas with weapons and money?

the EU,the UN must act together and isolate Hamas.

What will this do? How would the UN isolate Hamas. The UN supplies Hamas with all kinds of supplies and assistance. How do you get the UN to stop?

[Steven]

I think andak01 has been a t-e-rr-ibly d-i-s-c-o-n-n-e-c-t-e-d leftist for the biggest part of his life until the latest fashion for unsatisfied wandering souls led him per accident to islam and to Morroco and now he MUST STAY eternally grateful for that.

Would that be too wild of a guess? Anyway, I have 20 bucks to spare.


No bet, that is exactly how I see him.

[CanDo]

Any complaint about deliberately causing civilian casualties??? That's a very clear call to terrorism.

You want to put a "label" of terrorism on a very effective approach to terrorism, a threat against the terrorists own family. I call it deterrence. If Israel would wipe out the families of most of the Hamas leaders, I would guarantee you that the other members of Hamas would think twice about attacking Jewish families again.

If Israel would continue to target Hamas family members during a cease fire, like Hamas does now, or during peace, like Hamas does now, or during times that Israel is not being attacked, then you could call it terrorism, but when the targeting of terrorist families is solely used as a deterrence, it is not only justified, but necessary.

[Steven]

The term is ethnically cleansed.

As usual andak tries to make one who wants to protect their families from the hate of Islam the bad guy. There is no reason for a non-Muslim to respect Islam. This thread has clearly exposed that andak is more concerned with Muslims than anyone else.

I'm sure you'd like to think that none of us is anything other than Taliban.

This really does not matter, as it was not all Germans or Japanese either.

English is my first language. Discussionist isn't a word.

Yes it is. http://www3.merriam-webster.com/opendictionary/newword_search.php?word=discuss
Try Arabic, it would suit you better.





Nits would be pregnant women and lice would be babies that you have no compunction about killing. What a charming person you are. Hitler would have said vermin, but you have chosen a good ol' American quote that refers to ethnic cleansing.


Andak constantly tries to cover up how Muslims have been doing this to non-Muslims for 1400 years.:tdown:

[andak01]

Funny, dictionary.com usually includes websters.

No results found for discussionist:
Did you mean discussion's (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion%27s) (in dictionary) or Discussion list (http://www.reference.com/search?q=Discussion+list) (in reference)?
Dictionary suggestions:Reference suggestions:
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discussions' (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussions%27)
Discussion board (http://www.reference.com/search?q=Discussion+board)
disillusionist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=disillusionist)
DiscussionBoard (http://www.reference.com/search?q=DiscussionBoard)
distortionist (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=distortionist)
Discussion list (http://www.reference.com/search?q=Discussion+list)
discussion board (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discussion+board)



http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discussionist

[andak01]

You want to put a "label" of terrorism on a very effective approach to terrorism, a threat against the terrorists own family.

While we've got our heads in the dictionary, let's see...

1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

2.the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

3.a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

Well yes, murdering the families of these criminals in order to intimidate or coerce is, by definition terrorism every bit as much as the terrorist acts they commit. What's more, based on past events, I can only see that as being a perfect recruiting method. Terrorism begets terrorism.

[CanDo]

While we've got our heads in the dictionary, let's see...

Well yes, murdering the families of these criminals in order to intimidate or coerce is, by definition terrorism every bit as much as the terrorist acts they commit.

I don't think that, when one's children's lives or limbs is at stake, the parents will use a dictionary to protect their children.

Given the choice between the lives of terrorists families or your own family, you would chose to have your own family wiped out. Most humans who care and love their own families would make a different choice.

We have different family values.

[Anatolia]

In your opinion Israel has the capability to stop the rockets, and choses not to use it?

Why not?

What types of capabilities would be able to target someone setting up a missile between homes, firing it and then quickly leaving the area? What type of capability would be able to target a missile silo, protected by reinforced concrete in the middle of a crowded neighborhood?

Do you know something that no one else knows?

I wish I knew. I at least hope that Hamas will lose its capacity after this operation.

How do you isolate Hamas?

At least the EU and the UN must completely cut the relations. That's the only way to stop them. They can not survive without foreign help,cut the money they get from the west. To end the terror Palestineans have to take a formidable steps, first of all by stopping Hamas from launching any attack. They have to know that they will either stop terror or they will find no government to deal with them.


How do you stop Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Hezbollah and Muslims throughout the Middle East, from supplying Hamas with weapons and money?

I don't know,as far as I know Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest ally of the US,am I wrong?

Iran? Nothing can stop them until the regime change there.

Hezbollah? I have no idea why on earth a "political party" has its own "army"? Isn't there a constitution in Lebanon,why do they allow them in the parliament?

[Tonto]

You're boring me boy. But you certainly are a nit picker. That seems to be your MO. Nit pick, lie outright, distract off topic, or convoluted, apologetic, inane non-arguments. I'm certainly not impressed. My, my....are we checking spelling next?
The bottom line is this, sonny. The insanity of islam has broken out of it's normal hide with the help of oil money supported virulent, almost hedonistic, delusional fervor. Most people in the world find it distasteful. Islam doesn't like that so they have taken up the weapons of war, terror, intimidation etc. They (islamics) are getting the crap kicked out of themselves making the attempt, especially in Gaza right now. That is a very GOOD thing in some people's eyes, but not yours. Your problem is that islam is a crappy system that has no redeeming qualities and you've stuck yourself with supporting that side. It must suck to be you....but bear up, islam will be defeated one of these days and you can say you fought the good fight. Who cares though? That and a dollar will buy a cuppa coffee in some places.

[Steven]

You're boring me boy. But you certainly are a nit picker. That seems to be your MO. Nit pick, lie outright, distract off topic, or convoluted, apologetic, inane non-arguments. I'm certainly not impressed. My, my....are we checking spelling next?




That is all that he has, as he cannot get anyone to buy into his propaganda.

[Madeline]

DEAD Jews aren't news, but killing terrorists outrages global activists. On Saturday, Israel struck back powerfully against its tormentors. Now Israel's the villain. Again.

How long will it be until the UN General Assembly passes a resolution creating an international Holocaust Appreciation Day?

Israel's airstrikes against confirmed Hamas terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip were overdue, discriminating and skillful. So far, this retaliatory campaign has been a superb example of how to employ postmodern airpower.

Instead of bombing empty buildings in the dead of night in the hope of convincing bloodthirsty monsters to become peace-loving floral arrangers - the US Air Force version of "Shock and Awe" - the Israeli Defense Force aimed to kill terrorists.

Israel's attack aircraft appear to have accomplished that part of the mission. As I write, some 300 terrorist dead have been reported in Gaza, while the propaganda-savvy information office of Hamas has strug- gled to prove that 20 civilians died.

Given the fact that Hamas adheres to the terrorist practice of locating command sites, arsenals and training facilities in heavily populated areas, the results suggest that the IDF - supported by first-rate intelligence work - may have executed the most accurate wave of airstrikes in history, with a 15-to-1 terrorist-to-civilian kill ratio.

The bad news is that it still won't be enough. While Israel has delivered a painful blow against Hamas, it's still not a paralyzing hit. The only way to neuter such a terror threat - even temporarily - is to go in on the ground and scour every room, basement and underground tunnel in a region.

That would mean high Israeli casualties and, of course, condemnation of Israel's self-defense efforts by every self-righteous, corrupt and bigoted organization and government on earth, from Turtle Bay to Tehran.

What have been Israel's "crimes?" Not "stealing Palestinian land," but making that land productive, while exposing the incompetence and sloth of Arab culture.

Israel's crime isn't striking back at terror, but demonstrating, year after year, that a country in the Middle East can be governed without resort to terror. Israel's crime hasn't been denying Arab rights, but insisting on human rights for women and minorities.

Israel's crime has been making democracy work where tyranny prevailed for 5,000 years. Israel's crime has been survival against overwhelming odds, while legions of Arab nationalists, Islamist extremists and Western leftists want every Jew dead.

But Israel's greatest crime was to expose the global cult of victimhood, to prove that hard work, fortitude and courage could overcome even history's grimmest disaster.
VIEW FULL ARTICLE >

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12292008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/damned_if_they_do_146263.htm

[CanDo]

I wish I knew. I at least hope that Hamas will lose its capacity after this operation.

Most of Hamas's war capabilities are in Iranian-produced concrete bunkers, underground. Hamas used the truce to establish fortifications and weapon systems, mostly provided by Iran, and has 15,000 heavily armed combatants underground, waiting for an IDF ground invasion.

Either they are wiped out during this operation, or Israelis will never know another day's peace. If that means threatening to wipe out Hamas families, to effect victory, so be it.

At least the EU and the UN must completely cut the relations.

The UN spends most of it's time finding new ways to condemn Israel. How do you get the UN to stop being so anti-Israel, how long will it take, and how many rockets would you allow to strike Israel's towns and villages while the politicians are pleading with the UN.

That's the only way to stop them.

If you are right, then Israel is doomed.

I don't know,as far as I know Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest ally of the US,am I wrong?

The backward, brutal, Saudi Dictatorship values the protection that they get from the US military. But, the Saudis are also big supporters of Islamic terrorism.

Iran? Nothing can stop them until the regime change there.

Then Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc, will all continue to get hundreds of millions of dollars and powerful weapons from Iran, all solely to be used to wipe out Israel and kill all of Israel's Jews.

Hezbollah? I have no idea why on earth a "political party" has its own "army"? Isn't there a constitution in Lebanon

Do you really think that brutal, terrorist murderers are interested in constitutions or laws or rules.

,why do they allow them in the parliament?

Hezbollah is too strong and violent to be told what to do.

[Achihud]

No bet, that is exactly how I see him.
...typical case of zero backbone.

[bararallu]

I am aware of all the things you said above,well I do not expect any logical act from Arab States.They are the biggest source of the regional and international terror,that's the fact.Also I know very well that Arabs have much more rights in Israel than any Arab country. but I still believe that this latest action will not help Israel in any way and it will not end terror,it will just help Hamas,think about it.

On one level it will help Hamas, but Hamas is geared for that sort of help, it has instrumented to receive this kind of help, namely: practiced victimology, augmented by mostly left wingers and more so left wing (and their cohorts, the hard right wing) Europeans who like nothing more than to call a Jew a Nazi. They are formost a media organisation, like AQ and Hizboallah and a few other groups we can all think of. That is how terrorism and terrorist states work, they live in the limelight. So yes I agree with you they benefit because their patrons and groupies both amplify their "plight and message".

That said, now what? Are we to take their endless agitations? Are we to take their continuous bombing of our southern cities, now reaching Ashdod and Ber Sheva? Soon the Capital. What if you guys in Istanbul were being shelled by say Bulgaria... what would the Turkish Military do? Would it 1. just lob a couple of mortars back randomly into Bulgaria? or 2. Would it threaten them and then if it continues, invade and bomb the living daylights out of them. Well imagine that going on for nearly a decade! Whether they sign that toilet paper of an agreement or not. Imagine these are the same people that mass murdered hundreds of people, Jews and Arabs both on buses and bus stations, in discos and in resteraunts.

This is not an easy answer, but it is an answer. You go in and smash them to smitherines. Afford them as much respite as they would afford you. Even their one time Friends the Egyptians see to agree with that it seems. And don't believe the crockodile tears from the Iranian, Syrian and PLO offices. They don't give a damn. Sure Syria loses one puppet, another day another puppet. And the PLO right now are having a party, since we are inadvertently helping them retake what they claim as theirs. That is my only regret about the whole thing. That and the unfortunate civilian deaths. Which in war are as present as sand in a sand storm.

I understand you bararallu. Well,this is not the first time Erdoğan is doing that. Do you know how many crisis did he cause in Turkey since he came to power? As I said before (if you read my previous posts) we have a prime minister who is going to European capitals and urging them to act together against Turkey if the constitutional court close their party. He represents his ideology instead of Ataturk's Turkey. I think Israel doesn't have much expectations from him,instead they prefer to deal with the army.Like the Syria operation..


You're right I guess. I wish there was a statement from the Military (or a minority party) to counteract that, but I understand if thats something not done... since I gather they are supposed to be beyond politics and stand for the whole republic. The man is doing serious damage to Turkey, and it's regional infrastructure that the State built over 80 years ago. We are heading for some real bad times in the ME. With just the Iranians things are going to be pretty horrendous I think. Damaging our relations at this time is more than unwise, it's dangerous.

[israel_heart]

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Well, I support ISRAEL in every way.
May God bless out soldiers and keep them safe from any harm.


regards,
Israel Heart

[israel_heart]

Prayer for Israeli Soldiers

Invoking God's protection for the members of the Israel Defense Forces.

He Who blessed our forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- may He bless the fighters of the Israel Defense Forces, who stand guard over our land and the cities of our God, from the border of the Lebanon to the desert of Egypt, and from the Great Sea unto the approach of the Aravah, on the land, in the air, and on the sea.

May the Almighty cause the enemies who rise up against us to be struck down before them. May the Holy One, Blessed is He, preserve and rescue our fighters from every trouble and distress and from every plague and illness, and may He send blessing and success in their every endeavor.

May He lead our enemies under our soldiers' sway and may He grant them salvation and crown them with victory. And may there be fulfilled for them the verse: For it is the Lord your God, Who goes with you to battle your enemies for you to save you.

Now let us respond: Amen.

[KiwiWriter]

DEAD Jews aren't news, but killing terrorists outrages global activists. On Saturday, Israel struck back powerfully against its tormentors. Now Israel's the villain. Again.



I have to completely agree with you. Very little was mentioned in our news until israel commence operations then they had experts complaining of israel's over reaction to the firing of thirty rockets and the killing of one civilian. (I still can't work out where they got that number from). Now all I have to wait for is an alledged missile attack on an ambulance complete with pictures. (I'll try and find an archive story about that and post a link or something).

[Madeline]

Prayer for Israeli Soldiers

Invoking God's protection for the members of the Israel Defense Forces.

He Who blessed our forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- may He bless the fighters of the Israel Defense Forces, who stand guard over our land and the cities of our God, from the border of the Lebanon to the desert of Egypt, and from the Great Sea unto the approach of the Aravah, on the land, in the air, and on the sea.

May the Almighty cause the enemies who rise up against us to be struck down before them. May the Holy One, Blessed is He, preserve and rescue our fighters from every trouble and distress and from every plague and illness, and may He send blessing and success in their every endeavor.

May He lead our enemies under our soldiers' sway and may He grant them salvation and crown them with victory. And may there be fulfilled for them the verse: For it is the Lord your God, Who goes with you to battle your enemies for you to save you.

Now let us respond: Amen.
From the bottom of my heart, Amen.

[Madeline]

On one level it will help Hamas, but Hamas is geared for that sort of help, it has instrumented to receive this kind of help, namely: practiced victimology, augmented by mostly left wingers and more so left wing (and their cohorts, the hard right wing) Europeans who like nothing more than to call a Jew a Nazi. They are formost a media organisation, like AQ and Hizboallah and a few other groups we can all think of. That is how terrorism and terrorist states work, they live in the limelight. So yes I agree with you they benefit because their patrons and groupies both amplify their "plight and message".

That said, now what? Are we to take their endless agitations? Are we to take their continuous bombing of our southern cities, now reaching Ashdod and Ber Sheva? Soon the Capital. What if you guys in Istanbul were being shelled by say Bulgaria... what would the Turkish Military do? Would it 1. just lob a couple of mortars back randomly into Bulgaria? or 2. Would it threaten them and then if it continues, invade and bomb the living daylights out of them. Well imagine that going on for nearly a decade! Whether they sign that toilet paper of an agreement or not. Imagine these are the same people that mass murdered hundreds of people, Jews and Arabs both on buses and bus stations, in discos and in resteraunts.

This is not an easy answer, but it is an answer. You go in and smash them to smitherines. Afford them as much respite as they would afford you. Even their one time Friends the Egyptians see to agree with that it seems. And don't believe the crockodile tears from the Iranian, Syrian and PLO offices. They don't give a damn. Sure Syria loses one puppet, another day another puppet. And the PLO right now are having a party, since we are inadvertently helping them retake what they claim as theirs. That is my only regret about the whole thing. That and the unfortunate civilian deaths. Which in war are as present as sand in a sand storm.

You're right I guess. I wish there was a statement from the Military (or a minority party) to counteract that, but I understand if thats something not done... since I gather they are supposed to be beyond politics and stand for the whole republic. The man is doing serious damage to Turkey, and it's regional infrastructure that the State built over 80 years ago. We are heading for some real bad times in the ME. With just the Iranians things are going to be pretty horrendous I think. Damaging our relations at this time is more than unwise, it's dangerous.

I am going out on a limb here and say that Jews are hated t/o the world as it is. So why not "smash them to smitherines"? Israel has a lot to gain, and very little to lose in regard to 'world sympathy'.

[bararallu]

I am going out on a limb here and say that Jews are hated t/o the world as it is. So why not "smash them to smitherines"? Israel has a lot to gain, and very little to lose in regard to 'world sympathy'.

Well we do have friends. The Czechs are going to do a better job in the EU than the French as per recent announcements.

[Madeline]

Well we do have friends. The Czechs are going to do a better job in the EU than the French as per recent announcements.
I stand corrected.;) But Israel needs to do what is right for Israel. Once and for all.

[israel_heart]

^
^

I agree Madeline

[Tonto]

I was just sitting around and thought, ya know, if this battle against hamas, being as careful to avoid casualties among civilians as Israel has been doesn't work, what then? Why not just go to the napalm, carpet bombs and willie pete and wipe out as many palestinians as possible....a real blood bath or orgy? Then march the army through there and kill everything that is still moving....all the way down to the goldfish and canaries. After 60 years of this crap without respite, why not? Enough is enough.

Maybe that's a bit fierce for some folks, but if I was an Israeli, I certainly would be thinking along those lines. And I'll bet they have. You can just listen in the mosque and hear that. You can listen to Amadinnerjacket and hear it. You can see that attitude in the 12,475 jihadi attacks since 9/11 in there. Maybe it's time to show that it goes both ways. And I would applaud.

[Madeline]

I was just sitting around and thought, ya know, if this battle against hamas, being as careful to avoid casualties among civilians as Israel has been doesn't work, what then? Why not just go to the napalm, carpet bombs and willie pete and wipe out as many palestinians as possible....a real blood bath or orgy? Then march the army through there and kill everything that is still moving....all the way down to the goldfish and canaries. After 60 years of this crap without respite, why not? Enough is enough.

Maybe that's a bit fierce for some folks, but if I was an Israeli, I certainly would be thinking along those lines. And I'll bet they have. You can just listen in the mosque and hear that. You can listen to Amadinnerjacket and hear it. You can see that attitude in the 12,475 jihadi attacks since 9/11 in there. Maybe it's time to show that it goes both ways. And I would applaud.

And don't forget, Israel has to deal with the likes of this .....(fill in the blank as you see fit). This woman irks me to no end. Who the h.. does she think she is? I doubt she could find Israel on a map if her life depended on it, and obviously she doesn't have a clue about what is going on and when to butt out.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/mckinney-may-try-gaza-again/
The father of former Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Georgia Democrat, said Tuesday his daughter may try again to take medical supplies to war-battered Gaza.

The father, Billy McKinney, one of Atlanta's first black law enforcement officers, quoted his daughter as telling him by telephone Tuesday that an Israeli patrol boat three times rammed a mercy vessel carrying her, 15 other activists and medical supplies to Gaza.

Nobody aboard the boat was hurt, but the vessel was destroyed, he said she told him. He said his daughter called to say that she was safe.

[GratefulFred]

I was just sitting around and thought, ya know, if this battle against hamas, being as careful to avoid casualties among civilians as Israel has been doesn't work, what then? Why not just go to the napalm, carpet bombs and willie pete and wipe out as many palestinians as possible....a real blood bath or orgy? Then march the army through there and kill everything that is still moving....all the way down to the goldfish and canaries. After 60 years of this crap without respite, why not? Enough is enough.

Maybe that's a bit fierce for some folks, but if I was an Israeli, I certainly would be thinking along those lines. And I'll bet they have. You can just listen in the mosque and hear that. You can listen to Amadinnerjacket and hear it. You can see that attitude in the 12,475 jihadi attacks since 9/11 in there. Maybe it's time to show that it goes both ways. And I would applaud.


You should see my post titled "Dear Defense Minister Barak" which basically says we give them 24 hours to book it to the Siani and afterwards we take out above ground and bellow ground.

No lives lost and the media will get bored watching empty brick and mortar.

By the way I am in firing distance now and it sucks.

[CanDo]

By the way I am in firing distance now and it sucks.

I could not imagine going through the stress and anxiety you and your neighbors must be feeling.

Whereas, Israel NEVER deliberately targets civilians, the Islamic animals ALWAYS targets civilians.

I hope that the next stage of Israel's offensive against the Islamic beasts in Gaza, will be quick, effective and with the least Jewish casualties, and take you out of harms way.

Take care...............

[Madeline]

You should see my post titled "Dear Defense Minister Barak" which basically says we give them 24 hours to book it to the Siani and afterwards we take out above ground and bellow ground.

No lives lost and the media will get bored watching empty brick and mortar.

By the way I am in firing distance now and it sucks.

Be safe. Prayers going up every day.

[moti]

I was just sitting around and thought, ya know, if this battle against hamas, being as careful to avoid casualties among civilians as Israel has been doesn't work, what then? Why not just go to the napalm, carpet bombs and willie pete and wipe out as many palestinians as possible....a real blood bath or orgy? Then march the army through there and kill everything that is still moving....all the way down to the goldfish and canaries. After 60 years of this crap without respite, why not? Enough is enough.

Maybe that's a bit fierce for some folks, but if I was an Israeli, I certainly would be thinking along those lines. And I'll bet they have. You can just listen in the mosque and hear that. You can listen to Amadinnerjacket and hear it. You can see that attitude in the 12,475 jihadi attacks since 9/11 in there. Maybe it's time to show that it goes both ways. And I would applaud.

Basicly, thats a good idea. The only problem it's who is gonna pay for all the psychological help that thouse youngsters will need after killing so many...

[Mosche]

And don't forget, Israel has to deal with the likes of this .....(fill in the blank as you see fit). This woman irks me to no end. Who the h.. does she think she is? I doubt she could find Israel on a map if her life depended on it, and obviously she doesn't have a clue about what is going on and when to butt out.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/mckinney-may-try-gaza-again/
The father of former Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Georgia Democrat, said Tuesday his daughter may try again to take medical supplies to war-battered Gaza.

The father, Billy McKinney, one of Atlanta's first black law enforcement officers, quoted his daughter as telling him by telephone Tuesday that an Israeli patrol boat three times rammed a mercy vessel carrying her, 15 other activists and medical supplies to Gaza.

Nobody aboard the boat was hurt, but the vessel was destroyed, he said she told him. He said his daughter called to say that she was safe.

This woman was one of the poorest excuses for a legislator...EVER! I worked in D.C. when she was there, and she had a blatant disregard for anything or anyone that did not feed her narcissism. Finally, she made her disdain for Israel obvious every time she could.

[Mosche]

By the way I am in firing distance now and it sucks.

Stay safe, and know that you are in our thought and prayers.

[Justcurious]

The Czechs are going to do a better job in the EU than the French as per recent announcements.

There are lots of opinions and they are not always alike. Only this evening I saw a Slovak interviewed on TV after the introduction of the euro in his country. Well, the Czechs may come later, if they come.

[Justcurious]

I stand corrected.;) But Israel needs to do what is right for Israel. Once and for all.

And Israel is made up of different people with different opinions. Let us hope those elected make those decisions which are accepted by the majority.

[redcake]

Good news, CNN has become the Palestinian mouthpiece. They're even reported the exact day that Israel instigated this all.... 4 months ago. They've got someone live on the air from Rafah claiming his camp was created in .......1967.

[Madeline]

And Israel is made up of different people with different opinions. Let us hope those elected make those decisions which are accepted by the majority.

Let's just hope they base their decisions on what the people want, not on the current popular world opinion.

[ygalg1]

I find it sad that to eliminate this threat, it has to be through warfare. it would have spared a lot of bloodshed, if they awaken from the Islamic mind set. Islam is an evil doctrine, brought by a madman.

[Justcurious]

Let's just hope they base their decisions on what the people want, not on the current popular world opinion.

Yes, the opinion is acceptable, but the opinion of people living in Israel is not always in accordance with the world opinion. There are different views all the time, for instance in the former clashes in Ruanda. Surely, the leaders of Israel don't want to see their country connected with the mad rulers of Ruanda.

[dayag]

Yes, the opinion is acceptable, but the opinion of people living in Israel is not always in accordance with the world opinion. There are different views all the time, for instance in the former clashes in Ruanda. Surely, the leaders of Israel don't want to see their country connected with the mad rulers of Ruanda.

Rwanda? Are you comparing Israel's campaign to stop terrorist attacks from the Gaza Strip to a deliberate campaign of genocide that claimed the lives of well over half a million people?

[KiwiWriter]

And don't forget, Israel has to deal with the likes of this .....(fill in the blank as you see fit). This woman irks me to no end. Who the h.. does she think she is? I doubt she could find Israel on a map if her life depended on it, and obviously she doesn't have a clue about what is going on and when to butt out.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/mckinney-may-try-gaza-again/
The father of former Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Georgia Democrat, said Tuesday his daughter may try again to take medical supplies to war-battered Gaza.

The father, Billy McKinney, one of Atlanta's first black law enforcement officers, quoted his daughter as telling him by telephone Tuesday that an Israeli patrol boat three times rammed a mercy vessel carrying her, 15 other activists and medical supplies to Gaza.

Nobody aboard the boat was hurt, but the vessel was destroyed, he said she told him. He said his daughter called to say that she was safe.

Read a few stories on Worldnetdaily about this politician. She's a member of the Green Party which should just be renamed the Watermellon Pary because they're all green on the outside but red in the middle.

She should butt out and also be thankful that the patrol boat only rammed her vessel rather than fired upon it. As usual liberals don't fully understand the concept of warfare. Her vessel may have been in international waters, but so were all those ships the Germans, British and Americans attacked during WW2. Attacking an enemy's shipping is a ligitimate strategy and it's called Cutting off lines of supply.

[Madeline]

Read a few stories on Worldnetdaily about this politician. She's a member of the Green Party which should just be renamed the Watermellon Pary because they're all green on the outside but red in the middle.

She should butt out and also be thankful that the patrol boat only rammed her vessel rather than fired upon it. As usual liberals don't fully understand the concept of warfare. Her vessel may have been in international waters, but so were all those ships the Germans, British and Americans attacked during WW2. Attacking an enemy's shipping is a ligitimate strategy and it's called Cutting off lines of supply.

:clap: Not only don't they not understand the concept of warfare, I doubt very much they understand the concept of Israel and her right to exist peacefully. But don't forget, the left is soooo compassionate. Crawling up some terrorists be..d.......

[Tonto]

Madeline, my Grandma told me long ago that we ain't never gunna run out of a**ho**s. I think they breed as we speak. Fact is, regardless, one must do what one must do.
Moti, I was in combat for 2 and a 1/2 years....lots of face to face and "mano a mano". When I came home to the reservation they had a "sing" for me to help me get over it. Still ain't really 100% (about 85 %) and it's been 39 years ago.....so yer right. But it still must be done, and there are those that are chosen to do so.....those with a predisposition are better for the work. For the others, it can be rough. But there is plenty of help now for those affected too much.......my kid was in Iraq, and he sees a shrink. Good for him.
Libtards are never going to see the light of right and wrong. It's just that liberals know so much that's just plain wrong!
Ho-ka-hay!!!

[Madeline]

Madeline, my Grandma told me long ago that we ain't never gunna run out of a**ho**s. I think they breed as we speak. Fact is, regardless, one must do what one must do.
Moti, I was in combat for 2 and a 1/2 years....lots of face to face and "mano a mano". When I came home to the reservation they had a "sing" for me to help me get over it. Still ain't really 100% (about 85 %) and it's been 39 years ago.....so yer right. But it still must be done, and there are those that are chosen to do so.....those with a predisposition are better for the work. For the others, it can be rough. But there is plenty of help now for those affected too much.......my kid was in Iraq, and he sees a shrink. Good for him.
Libtards are never going to see the light of right and wrong. It's just that liberals know so much that's just plain wrong!
Ho-ka-hay!!!
Your Grandma was a wise woman.
I wonder what the Israelis have planned for McKinney when she returns? Will she have the same reception, or will she hopefully just be ignored?

[bararallu]

Rwanda? Are you comparing Israel's campaign to stop terrorist attacks from the Gaza Strip to a deliberate campaign of genocide that claimed the lives of well over half a million people?

I think thats the implication.

I guess some here don't believe that the UN is fundamentally exploited by regional alliances, religious affiliation and mob rule among other pristine considerations. It's not a governance council, but it is, certainly at this point, a morally bankrupt institution. the only reasons it's still in existence today is 1. inertia 2. it serves as a platform for self interested power politics and 3. provides a soap box for the vociferous envy of the 3rd/OIS world. That is to say it's pretty much the carbon copy of the League of Nations in it's waining days just prior to WW2.

Now what does the paper tiger have to do with Israel. Well pretty much bubkis, realpolitik would happen anyway. And this time acts of genocide wont be publicly brushed under the table as they are in the GA today, but handled without much fanfare and hypocrisy.

Many in the first world live in a bubble, and refuse to accept that they are complicit in crimes that they themselves procedurally incriminate as "international law." Notice Rwanda, that our northron friend raises. The UN failed. It was fashioned, post Holocaust, to stop Genocide. It has failed. That means it's raison detre is moribund if not altogether finished and over with. There are reasons that Israel per se should immediately stop it's membership in the body, since it has been specifically targeted by it's offices in contrast with other states that are actually pursuing genocidal goals. But the primary reason should be presented for the public record. The UN is a failed institution. It creates more harm than good. We need an exit strategy.

[Yala]

Yes, the opinion is acceptable, but the opinion of people living in Israel is not always in accordance with the world opinion.

How do you know? Have you polled the whole world?