Anti Israel Protests

[codedvirus]

......................India

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Anti-Israel_protests_break_out_in_JK/articleshow/3926089.cms
2 Jan 2009,
SRINAGAR: Hundreds of protesters shouting pro-Palestine and anti-Israel slogans marched through the civil lines area of Srinagar on Friday

..........................Pakistan

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=63860
LAHORE: Hundreds of Jamaat-e-Islami activists chanted anti-Israel and anti-US slogans as they staged a protest here after Friday prayers against the attacks on Gaza.

Protestors were carrying pro-Palestinian banners, JI leader Liaquat Baloch condemned the Israeli attacks on innocent Palestinians and demanded that world community should take strict notice of Israeli aggression.

................................. Indonesia

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/12/29/police-arrest-12-protesting-against-israel-central-jakarta.html

Police arrested 12 protesters rallying against Israel's attacks in Gaza at the Hotel Indonesia circle on Monday for not having permission to hold a demonstration, kompas.com has reported.

The 12 are Agung, Ahmad, Arsilan, Ferry, Gempar, Mulyana, Oji, Oking, Okta, Sayidan Muhamad, Umar and Zainal. Some are members of Indonesian Muslim Students Action Unity (KAMMI) and students at Darma Tirta University in Banten and the University of Indonesia.

........................ Malaysia

http://www.bernama.com.my/bernama/v3/news.php?id=213513
KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 11 (Bernama) -- More than 20,000 university students held peaceful protests in campuses across Malaysia against Israeli atrocities in Lebanon and Palestine.

The protests were staged in public universities in Klang Valley, Penang and Johor Baharu.

................. Europe

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_eu/eu_europe_gaza_reaction

LONDON – Protesters turned out across Europe Sunday to demonstrate against Israel's air assault on the Gaza Strip, while European leaders called on Israel and Hamas to end the bloodshed.

British Foreign Secretary David Miliband said this was a "dangerous moment" and called for an immediate cease-fire by both Israel and Hamas, which controls Gaza.

..........................

Nobody protested when Gaza attacked Israeli innocents or after any Terrorist attacks around the world.

[codedvirus]

Why is the Muslim world so attracted towards Israel ?

[Yala]

Why is the Muslim world so attracted towards Israel ?

Jealousy.

[codedvirus]

...........................Britain
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ihyCpihlWjIuYwQdG-9Uqwfhhg4Q

Protests across Britain target Israel over Gaza bombing
LONDON (AFP) — Demonstrators took to the streets across Britain on Saturday to protest against Israeli airstrikes on Gaza....

She told the BBC: "The problem is, from my perspective, they are pouring petrol onto the fire.

"They have to sit down. This is a small window of opportunity just before things kick off.

"For every one person killed in Gaza, they are creating 100 suicide bombers. It's not just about Gaza, it's about all of us."

............................................. Nairobi
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/509814/-/u0qp31/-/

Anti-Israeli protests spill into Nairobi

Protests over Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip spilled into the streets of Nairobi on Friday as Muslims in the city vowed to march to that country’s embassy and seek audience with the ambassador.

They want the envoy to “either apologise for the atrocities or vacate the country.”

The atmosphere was charged at Nairobi’s Jamia Mosque during Friday prayers after Muslims were informed that dozens of women and children had been killed in the attacks.

Speeches at the rally held in Banda Street outside the Jamia Mosque shortly after the prayers were punctuated with shouts of “genocide”, “holocaust” and “massacre”.

.............................. Cyprus
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/03/europe/EU-Cyprus-Gaza-Protest.php
Hundreds protest in Cyprus over violence in Gaza

NICOSIA, Cyprus: Pro-Palestinian demonstrators have pelted Cypriot riot police with rocks, sticks, shoes and oranges near the Israeli embassy in Nicosia.

A peaceful protest turned violent Saturday when some protesters tried to pull away barbed wire and break through a line of riot police blocking a road leading to the Israeli embassy.

The demonstrators eventually stopped and dispersed after protest leaders pleaded with them to stop.

About 2,000 demonstrators, including Palestinians and Greek and Turkish Cypriots, had earlier converged in the center of the Cypriot capital to protest Israel's 8-day old air bombing campaign in Gaza.

It was the largest protest on the Mediterranean island so far on issue of Gaza, and organizers vowed that protests would continue.
...................

[codedvirus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came

Translation

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[dayag]

Why is the Muslim world so attracted towards Israel ?

We didn't have the good grace to allow them to shove us into the sea in 1948. Infidels aren't supposed to win. Our existence an affront to their honor.

[CanDo]

Why is the Muslim world so attracted towards Israel ?

It's not just Israel.

The Muslim leaders, like any other despots, want total dominance and enslavement of it's people. In the Muslim World, their enslaved masses are raised from babies to be totally subservient and mostly uneducated in anything other than the Koran.

The Muslim World controls it's masses educationally, sexually, spiritually and through fear.

That said....... the backward, violent, greedy, opulent, Muslim despots cannot allow any other view, religion, culture or opinion, especially other religions or cultures that are much more successful. Hence, Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc., must be driven out of the Middle East.

Persecution of Christians and Jews has been commonplace throughout the Middle East for hundreds of years. At the rate that Christians have been driven out of the Middle East, it won't be long before ALL Muslim nations are Christian-free.

The only stubborn non-Muslims have been Jews. The fact that the small number of Jews of Israel have been able to survive against decades of terrorism and violent Muslim wars against them, infuriates the Muslim World. The Muslim World (Turkey) was able to murder 1.5 million Armenian Christians, and drive out most of the rest of them, but not do the same thing to Jews, adds to Muslim anger and frustration.

So..... the mindless, unwashed, hateful, brainwashed hordes of enslaved Muslims throughout the world are protesting Jews surviving against Muslim violence. What else is new?

[ItsMyJewty]

Originally posted by CandoSo..... the mindless, unwashed, hateful, brainwashed hordes of enslaved Muslims throughout the world are protesting Jews surviving against Muslim violence.

What else can they do, they're impotent. :D

[Anatolia]

The problem between Turks and Armenians is between TURKS and ARMENIANS. It was not a muslim-christian war.Armenians always had and have very good relations with the rest of the muslims.Same goes for Greece.

Also generalizing about muslims wll not get you anywhere. Look at Cyprus,do you see muslim suicide bombers there? Do you see any religious debate between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots in the island? Many Karabakh Azeris are still living in refugee camps in Azerbaijan.Did you ever see any Azari suicide bomber case? Rockets or anything? Some of you are trying to relate everything to religion.For many,the world doesn't turn around religion.

[Mil]

USSR beat religion out of everyone - including the Ajeris. However, after Saudis and Iranians got their way the population is radicalizing. The Chechens also had no shahids till a certain point......

[codedvirus]

Also generalizing about muslims wll not get you anywhere. Look at Cyprus,do you see muslim suicide bombers there? Do you see any religious debate between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots in the island? Many Karabakh Azeris are still living in refugee camps in Azerbaijan.Did you ever see any Azari suicide bomber case? Rockets or anything? Some of you are trying to relate everything to religion.For many,the world doesn't turn around religion.

Why didn't Muslim community protested when HAMAS was attacking the Israeli's ?

Why the Muslim community around the world did not protest when the Islamic terrorists attacks where taking place ?

[frizzer1]

It's not just Israel.

The Muslim leaders, like any other despots, want total dominance and enslavement of it's people. In the Muslim World, their enslaved masses are raised from babies to be totally subservient and mostly uneducated in anything other than the Koran.

True.
But there are reasons why they hate the jews so much.
In the qu'ran we are described as being treacherous,rejected by G-d,killers of the prophets,corruptors of the Torah, and destined to eternal torment in hell.
And yet we not only still exist, we rise to the top of every society in which we live.
And tiny israel has defeated 150 million arabs over and over and continues to be the strongest military power in the ME.

As the poet Irving layton once said of the muslims, we are stuck in their craw and they can't spit us out.
Our very existence puts the lie to what they have been taught about muslims,Islam,and the meaning of life itself.
No wonder they hate and fear us so.

[Cellis]

Why didn't Muslim community protested when HAMAS was attacking the Israeli's ?

Why the Muslim community around the world did not protest when the Islamic terrorists attacks where taking place ?because ap cnn bbc and others do not publish stories about hamas attacks.
Israel was protested in istanbul but by the radical islamic groups, arab community and other non-turk organizations. Same organizations and groups have problems with Turks as well. I don't get it why do you all generalize protesters and blame the whole nation?!
I'm checking comments about Israel-Hamas conflict in Turkey's one of the biggest newspaper "hurriyet" most of commenters supporting Israel. There are Jews in this forum who can speak+read Turkish and they're confident of it.

edit:
more from the muslim world: Uzbekistan
http://forum.arbuz.com/showthread.php?t=49912
some of these guys still support Israel and arguing with each other for Israel

[Yala]

And tiny israel has defeated 150 million arabs over and over and continues to be the strongest military power in the ME.
.

Actually it's more like 350 million

[wellofvow]

The Moslem world may discover - if they haven't already after today - that this may be a new ballgame. Israel may not be influenced by the squawks of the Islamics or their fellow-travellers.

So far, it appears that the IDF has learned a thing or two from the Lebanon 2 catastrophe, and the Israeli TV media are saying tonight that Israel's goal is to show Hamas that we are not afraid of being criticized and lied about regarding "attacks on civilian targets" - the Islamic propagandists have lied too extravagantly and lost much credibility. The IDF is bombing mosques if Hamas leaders hole up there or store weapons there. Ditto for hospitals, schools, and private homes.

Let them learn "you can run but you cannot hide."

Israeli ground forces just invaded, by the way.

[codedvirus]

because ap cnn bbc and others do not publish stories about hamas attacks.
Israel was protested in istanbul but by the radical islamic groups, arab community and other non-turk organizations. Same organizations and groups have problems with Turks as well. I don't get it why do you all generalize protesters and blame the whole nation?!
I'm checking comments about Israel-Hamas conflict in Turkey's one of the biggest newspaper "hurriyet" most of commenters supporting Israel. There are Jews in this forum who can speak+read Turkish and they're confident of it.


If i say to you that most of the protests are sponsored by bigger groups and the people participating in it don't even no what are they protesting for.

Commenting in blogs and papers is different from going on the streets and protesting.


Edit:
Bigger groups = Organizations. & The same organization are funding terrorists.

[Madeline]

Some American protest. The article links to a video, shot during an anti-Israel demonstration in Ft. Lauderdale, FL.

http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2008/12/31/gaza-comes-to-america-hate-demonstrations-against-israel-on-the-east-and-west-coasts/

[KettleWhistle]

The problem between Turks and Armenians is between TURKS and ARMENIANS. It was not a muslim-christian war.Armenians always had and have very good relations with the rest of the muslims.Same goes for Greece.

Also generalizing about muslims wll not get you anywhere. Look at Cyprus,do you see muslim suicide bombers there? Do you see any religious debate between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots in the island? Many Karabakh Azeris are still living in refugee camps in Azerbaijan.Did you ever see any Azari suicide bomber case? Rockets or anything? Some of you are trying to relate everything to religion.For many,the world doesn't turn around religion.

It is true, but to a point. Israel is not anti-Muslim. But the majority of the world's Muslims are against us, and it's not just Arabs, even though we have no active conflict with the vast majority of them. Countries like Pakistan, Iran, Malaysia, Indonesia, are against us for no other reason than religion, are they not? Meanwhile, in Israel, some lie and mislead, and claim that Israel's campaign against Hamas is a war crime, massacre, and genocide. It is neither. Unlike Hamas' bombing of Israeli civilians, which actually is a war crime. At the same time, those Muslims here who stand with us, are... well... with us:

In Beersheba, rockets bring Arab, Jewish neighbors together
Jan. 1, 2009
Abe Selig , THE JERUSALEM POST
Beersheba looked like a ghost town Wednesday afternoon, as the sporadic wail of sirens and rattling booms of Grad rockets prompted many to stay within the relative safety of their homes, glued to their TVs and radios.
But in the city's Gimmel neighborhood - a heavily-Sephardi, working class bloc near the city center - people stood outside the entrance to a bomb shelter, passing the time with jokes and gossip while waiting anxiously for the next siren or boom.
"We didn't hear it this morning," Riki Yitzhak said. "The siren hasn't been working in this part of town at all, so we left our houses and came to the shelter. I'd rather stay here all day than go home."
Yitzhak explained that she and the others were crowded around the shelter's entrance and had just stepped outside to get a breath of fresh air.
"There are many more people downstairs," said a man who stood with the small crowd, his Hebrew peppered with an Arabic twang. "I'd say there are at least 50 people down there."
Down the flight of stairs and into the shelter's main room, it became apparent he had left out at least one unusual detail.
Sitting around the room, Jewish women pored over books of Psalms and other religious texts, while Arab women, dressed in traditional head coverings and long, modest dresses, sat next to them, knitting scarfs and caps for their young children who waited nearby.
"Look at this," Yitzhak said as she followed the crowd back down the stairs. "This is a mixed neighborhood - Jews and Arabs live here together, and we're all suffering from the rockets together. These women are scared just like we are, and they're our neighbors - we decided that we should all stay down here together."
Indeed, the Arab families, mostly Beduin, said they were happy to be with their Jewish neighbors in the shelter, and that they abhorred the rocket fire coming in from Gaza.
"What do I care about Hamas?" one of the Arab men asked, his anger visible. "This is my home right here, and they're firing rockets at it. Do you think they would stop if they knew there were Arabs living here?"
Others expressed their satisfaction with life in the neighborhood, until it was disrupted by the rocket fire.
"I've been living in this neighborhood for over 10 years," said Daoud Khaled, whose kids hung onto his pant legs as he spoke.
"I love it here, I want to keep living here forever. I have fantastic neighbors, and I'll tell you, in the Gimmel neighborhood, we're all in this together. There's no Arab and Jew here, we're all like one."
Miriam, who was standing nearby, chimed in: "We're like one big family, we get along," Then, switching to Arabic, she asked the woman sitting next to her, "How long have you been here? Eight years?"
The woman nodded, "Yes, eight years in the neighborhood."
"You see," Miriam continued, "we all get along just fine."
But aside from their stories of coexistence, nearly everyone in the shelter said they were scared, tired, and anxious to get back to their regular lives.
"Have you heard anything about when this is going to be over?" asked Muriel, a younger girl who said she had been in the shelter all day. "It's stuffy down here, and we want to go back up. But, how can we leave if more rockets are going to come down?"
Others tried to keep the mood light.
"Listen," one of the Arab men, Hamed, said. "We don't have to go to work today, the kids aren't in school, so we'll just enjoy each others' company. My wife just went to the house to bring candy; everything is going to be just fine."

source: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1230733120456&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Rob]

The problem between Turks and Armenians is between TURKS and ARMENIANS. It was not a muslim-christian war.Armenians always had and have very good relations with the rest of the muslims.Same goes for Greece.

Also generalizing about muslims wll not get you anywhere. Look at Cyprus,do you see muslim suicide bombers there? Do you see any religious debate between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots in the island? Many Karabakh Azeris are still living in refugee camps in Azerbaijan.Did you ever see any Azari suicide bomber case? Rockets or anything? Some of you are trying to relate everything to religion.For many,the world doesn't turn around religion.


One of the first things the Turks did was to destroy the main church in Nicosia and built a mosque on it. The muezzin are extra loud so the whole city can hear them and then that huge flag on the mountain just to p!ss of the Greek Cypriots. Also in Cyprus Islam showed its true face...

[Anatolia]

serdar he is talking about "muslim community" or "muslim world" (whatever you call it).Some people think that there is such a world and they are puting all the muslim nations in it..As if there is a country called "Muslimistan" and we are all citizens of this country..The same people don't understand that each country has its own culture,its own history,its own language,its own traditions,its own friends and its own enemies,its own responsibilities,its ow problems and its own successes etc.I will not discuss about it anymore,it really bothers me a lot.

[CanDo]

... And tiny israel has defeated 150 million arabs over and over and continues to be the strongest military power in the ME. ...

Israel's enemies and Muslim appeasers seldom ask the question: Why does the smallest nation in the Middle East NEED the strongest military.

Many like Anatolia try to sell a kinder, more benevolent image of the Muslim World, :rofl: but when looking at the facts that the Muslim World refuses to recognize Jews right to live in freedom in the Middle East, and that the Muslim World has driven most Christians and Jews out of their backward, violent, corrupt nations, (who wants to live there anyway! :vomit: and that the reason that tiny Israel needs the strongest military, WITH Nuclear Weaponry, is because Israel is surrounded by backward, violent, corrupt Muslims.

If the Armenians had the strongest military they would not have been wiped out by......... guess who?????? MUSLIMS!

[NewsGuy]

Why didn't Muslim community protested when HAMAS was attacking the Israeli's ?

Why the Muslim community around the world did not protest when the Islamic terrorists attacks where taking place ?
That's exactly what the entire issue comes down to. In the Muslim world, many people support the mass-murder and terrorizing of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. There are no protests because they support (and often glorify) terrorism on a cultural level.

Only when Jews defend themselves from Muslim terrorism does the Muslim world set to the streets in protest. Seriously - how dare anyone shoot back at Muslim terrorists? The nerve! :)

[Anatolia]

One of the first things the Turks did was to destroy the main church in Nicosia and built a mosque on it. The muezzin are extra load so the whole city can hear them and then that huge flag on the mountain just to p!ss of the Greek Cypriots. Also in Cyprus Islam showed its true face...

Greek church played and plays very important role in Greek Cyprus policies while in Turkish side mosques have no power at all and religion never plays a role in Northern part.You better get some info..

[Cellis]

serdar he is talking about "muslim community" or "muslim world" (whatever you call it).Some people think that there is such a world and they are puting all the muslim nations in it..As if there is a country called "Muslimistan" and we are all citizens of this country..The same people don't understand that each country has its own culture,its own history,its own language,its own traditions,its own friends and its own enemies,its own responsibilities,its ow problems and its own successes etc.I will not discuss about it anymore,it really bothers me a lot.to be honest I don't blame these people anymore. I'd react same way if I was Jewish.

[Rob]

You better get some info..

What do you mean? You mean Turks didn´t destroy churches and built mosques on it. You mean at 5 o´clock in the morning the muezzin donot wake up the whole city of Nicosia?

[codedvirus]

Firstly Hamas won only 75 seats out of the 135 odd seats.

Secondly Abu Mazan was also democratically elected as the President and has powers to dissolve the assembly.

Thirdly Hamas refused to stop terrorist activities.

Fourthly the killed and massacred innocent Fatah members to sieze the Gaza strip.

Lastly they broke the ceasefire.


IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

[Anatolia]

Many like Anatolia try to sell a kinder, more benevolent image of the Muslim World

I don't really think you read my posts.I don't know how many times I need to say that there is no such a world,there are different different countries,ethnicities..etc. But its not important whet I say,you will believe whatever you want to believe.I have nothing to do at this point.

[bararallu]

Greek church played and plays very important role in Greek Cyprus policies while in Turkish side mosques have no power at all and religion never plays a role in Northern part.You better get some info..

I think some people are conflating Ottoman and Republic of Turkey. BTW I agree with pretty much all your points as do most Israelis. That said, it's almost inevitable that Saudi and Iranian petrodollars are paying their way for a Jew free world. Why are we a hot topic in Malaysia of all places? I think there is a huge over estimation as to the primacy of pure religion over regional and national/ethnic issues. But there is a comparably underestimation of how much incitement a Saudi or Egyptian or Iranian trained cleric can do in the attempt to merge distinct and remote ethnic communities. The nexus of this is something no one quite knows about, but people are both conservative and radical and often assume the very worst. The Human mind generally has a proclivity to generalization and codification.

[codedvirus]

Firstly Hamas won only 75 seats out of the 135 odd seats.

Secondly Abu Mazan was also democratically elected as the President and has powers to dissolve the assembly.

Thirdly Hamas refused to stop terrorist activities.

Fourthly the killed and massacred innocent Fatah members to sieze the Gaza strip.

Lastly they broke the ceasefire.


IS IT THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND.

The last three points are pretty clear even a 10 year old child can say who's fault is it.

[Anatolia]

What do you mean? You mean Turks didn´t destroy churches and built mosques on it.

After 1974 the Turks moved to Northern part and the Greeks moved to Southern part. After this period some churches were turned into mosque in the North and some mosques were turned into church in South.It was mostly an ethnic conflict,I say mostly because the Greek church played a role in the conflict.But religion never played a role in Turkish Cypriot politics.


You mean at 5 o´clock in the morning the muezzin donot wake up the whole city of Nicosia?

So what if so? Are the moezzins calling people to jihad or what? Are there suicide bombers,islamic attacks or Allahu Ekber screams? I don't really understand your point?

May I ask you have you ever been to Northern Cyprus? You don't know what you are talking about. Religion doesn't mean anything so important for the people in the North.Also you can hardly find such an educated muslim population in the world. Almost all the Turkish Cypriots are university graduate and very civilised people.

[CanDo]

... In the Muslim world, many people support the mass-murder and terrorizing of Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc. There are no protests because they support (and often glorify) terrorism on a cultural level.

Everyone knows what is meant by the Muslim World, but Anatolia. The Muslim World speaks with one voice, the voice of religious intolerance and hatred towards the Jewish families of Israel, among others.

We always hear about US support for Israel being one sided because the US supports both Muslim/Arab and Jew. But we never hear about the Muslim/Arab world being one sided because almost all of them refuse the right of Israel to exist.


Only when Jews defend themselves from Muslim terrorism does the Muslim world set to the streets in protest. Seriously - how dare anyone shoot back at Muslim terrorists? The nerve! :)

The Muslim World screams at the top of it's lungs: "Israel has no right to fight back after eight years of rockets fired into it's town and villages and Israel has no right to fight back after decades of terrorist threats and attacks, and Israel has no right to fight back after historically Judeo-Jewish towns and villages are taken over by Muslims, and Israel has no right to fight back after it's sacred temples and sites are destroyed by Muslims and mosques built over them."

[Rob]

After this period some churches were turned into mosque in the North

Some? Hundreds of churches were destroyed.


It was mostly an ethnic conflict

Maybe, TRNC did try to play the Muslim card though on several occasions in front of the OIC.



So what if so? Are the moezzins calling people to jihad or what? Are there suicide bombers,islamic attacks or Allahu Ekber screams? I don't really understand your point?

They increase the volume 10x...I think you do understand the point.

[CanDo]

Firstly Hamas won only 75 seats out of the 135 odd seats. ...

When the choice is between two violent, hateful corrupt gangs (Hamas or Fatah), then how really free was the election?

The Palestinians can vote for one set of goons, or the other set.

Either way, the Palestinians are going to be led, for decades to come, by ruthless, corrupt, incompetent thugs who are going to line their own pockets with millions, while most Palestinian families live in poverty, all the while blaming Jews for the Palestinians own miserable choices.

[Anatolia]

Rob you are completely talking nonsense.You have NO idea about Northern Cyprus. Religion plays NO role in Turkish Cypriot politics. There are two main political parties there;nationalists and leftists... Anyway people do not care about religion there. Religion plays a role in Southern Part. I said and I am saying again,you don't know what you are talking about.

[genghis_tom]

edit

[codedvirus]

Anti Israel Groups In America (Why are there so many ?)
911 Truth , a New York City-based conspiracy group, claims that the Bush administration staged the September 11 terror attacks. The group does not seem to have many members, but unaffiliated protesters often uncritically accept the group’s professionally made posters and signature “deception dollars”—fake bills covered in conspiratorial images and web sites. Its influence was most clearly seen at the March 2004 antiwar demonstrations in New York, where numerous “Stop the 9-11 Cover-Up” signs were displayed.

Al-Awda - Right of Return Coalition , an international grassroots organization, argues that Palestinian refugees have the right to return “to their original homes and villages” which existed prior to the founding of Israel, and that they should be paid restitution for their losses. Al-Awda supports the intifada and the establishment of a Palestinian state over all the territory west of the Jordan River, including Israel. Al-Awda has organized large protests with the International Action Center and its anti-war affiliate, ANSWER. It has also been active in several anti-Israel boycott campaigns. Al-Awda considers its advocacy on behalf of Palestinians as being at the center of a global struggle against Zionism and American foreign policy. Mazin Qumsiyeh, a Yale University professor and an Al-Awda founder and leader, has called for supporting the “Iraqi resistance” against the pro-Israel “cabal” in Washington: “Only by awakening the US public and linking it to resistance movements from within the world community (including the Iraqi resistance), will this pathway to destruction be avoided.”


The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) was founded in 1980 and is the largest Arab civil rights groups in the United States. ADC describes itself as a “"civil rights organization committed to defending the rights of people of Arab descent and promoting their rich cultural heritage.”" It also lobbies the U.S. government for “"a balanced U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.”" Since the start of the second intifada in late 2000, ADC’s national leadership in Washington has been only marginally involved in anti-Israel protests and its former president, Ziad Asali, has made moderate statements in support of a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on a two-state solution. On the other hand, eElements from some of ADC’s grassroots leadershipregional chapters, however, have formed a radical wing within the organization, promoting a hardlinehard-line stance that includes rejecting Israel’s right to exist. These chapters ADC’s regional chapters have organized many anti-Israel rallies and have supported anti-Israel campus activities; in California its local leaders established the radical Free Palestine Alliance and have held leadership roles in ANSWER and Al--Awda, both of which support terrorism and reject Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.

The American Muslim Council seeks to empower American Muslims politically and advocates on issues of concern to the Muslim community. It describes itself as active in civil rights issues like anti-Muslim hate crime and the safeguarding of civil liberties. AMC is strongly anti-Israel, and its leaders have expressed support of anti-Israel terrorist organizations Hamas and Hizballah.

The ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) Coalition, created by the New York-based International Action Center to protest the bombing of Afghanistan, has organized many anti-war protests around the country since September 2001. The largest and most disturbing was on April 20, 2002, in Washington DC. Called the “National March for Palestine Against War and Racism,” the massive rally was attended by approximately 200,000 people, including thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators. The rally served as a forum for supporting violence and terror organizations, and for a proliferation of anti-Semitic expression. The ANSWER coalition moved up the date of its rally to April 20 to coincide with anti-globalization demonstrations, which were organized to protest the IMF and World Bank. ANSWER has become one of the most effective organizers for anti-war rallies, attracting thousands of demonstrators to subsequent rallies. ANSWER has played a key role in bringing Arab and Muslim groups into the anti-war and anti-racism movements, which has led to extreme invective against Israel during protests and expressions of support for Palestinian terrorists. Among the groups that have endorsed ANSWER events and participated in rallies are Al-Awda and the Islamic Association for Palestine.

The Anti-globalization movement is made up of loosely organized protest groups that oppose the economic and political structure of international capitalism through confrontational and frequently violent direct actions. Many anti-globalists are active on college campuses; some are radical animal rights supporters, anarchists and socialists.

The Anti-Racist Action Network is a large, occasionally violent and loosely organized protest group with chapters in a number of cities in the United States and Canada. Founded by non-racist skinheads and punks in the late 1980s in reaction to the growing threat of hate groups, ARA chapters are usually far to the left: many members are anarchists, for instance. According to the Web site of the de facto headquarters chapter in Columbus, Ohio, ARA members "organize a resistance to any fascist groups like the KKK or any component of Neo-Liberalism such as the WTO, IMF, FTAA [Free Trade Area of the Americas], etc."

According to its Web site, the Arab American Institute "was organized in 1985 to represent Arab American interests in government and politics. AAI provides leadership training and strategies in electoral politics and policy issues that concern Arab Americans." AAI's founder and president is James Zogby, a leading spokesman in the Arab-American community.

Atlanta Palestine Solidarity is, according to its Web site is "a new organization of human rights activists dedicated to fighting for Palestinian rights and against the Israeli Occupation. We believe that Israel's actions towards the Palestinian people are criminal, unjustifiable, and morally reprehensible."

Free Palestine Alliance (FPA) is a radical San Francisco-based organization that supports the dissolution of the State of Israel and the “unconditional liberation” of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and in Israel proper. The group is led by Elias Rashmawi and is closely affiliated with ANSWER, the International Action Center and Al--Awda. FPA has supported calls for divestment from companies that do business with Israel, supports the right of return for Palestinians, has expressed support for Hamas and, in one incident, attempted to bar Jewish peace groups like Tikkun from participating in antiwar protests. Other notable leaders include Michael Shehadeh, Eyad Kishawi, and Hanna Hanania.

According to its Web site, Free Palestine Now! "is an organization dedicated to helping the brave Palestinian people in there quest for freedom and justice." FPN was founded by two Virginia Commonwealth University students in Richmond, Virginia. FPN members "have twice participated in public banner drops in the Washington DC area to protest Sharon's visits."

Friends of Sabeel—North America (Sabeel NA) is an affiliate of the Israel-based Sabeel Ecumenical Liberation Theology Center, a Protestant Christian group led by Palestinian Anglican priest Canon Naim Ateek. Sabeel NA claims to promote a “non-violent vision for addressing the conflict between Palestinians and the state of Israel,” which would feature a two-state solution. However, Sabeel staunchly opposes Zionism on theological grounds and has been influential in generating hostility towards Israel within Protestant churches in the U.S. and the UK. Sabeel is a leading voice within mainline Protestant churches in favor of economic sanctions against Israel, and has supported the Palestine Solidarity Movement’s campus divestment campaign.

The International Solidarity Movement is a well-organized movement that spreads anti-Israel propaganda and voices support for other groups who engage in armed resistance against Israel. Volunteers engage in a variety of tactics such as obstructing the activities of the Israeli Army in Palestinian areas.

[codedvirus]

The Islamic Association for Palestine was founded in 1981. Based in Illinois, with offices in several cities around the country, IAP regularly publishes Hamas communiqués and in the past has printed and distributed the Hamas charter under its own masthead. IAP has also been closely associated with the Holy Land Foundation, a charity organization that the U.S. government declared part of "the financial apparatus of Hamas." Many of IAP's writings are anti-Semitic and support terror. It has stated that "our Muslim people are eager to take revenge… from the Jews," whom it calls "children of apes and pigs." It rejects attempts to negotiate a peaceful solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict as a conspiracy against Muslims. IAP calls the Jews "God's lying people" who enjoy an "absolute Jewish grip on the media and the show business" [sic].

Based in New York City, Jews Against the Occupation (JATO) stridently argues that Israel is unilaterally responsible for the violence in the Middle East conflict. JATO advocates the divestment movement and unilateral withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza. JATO supports more radical pro-Palestinian groups, including Al-Awda, ANSWER, and the Palestinian Solidarity Movement, which all back Palestinian terrorism against Israeli civilians.

The Justice in Palestine Coalition is an umbrella organization directed by the San Francisco Bay Area chapter of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. The Coalition includes Arab and Muslim organizations, anti-globalization and anti-war groups, socialists and student activists who are active in the anti-Israel divestment campaign. Among the groups are the Muslim Public Affairs Council; Al-Awda; the International Action Center and its affiliated organization, ANSWER; the International Socialist Organization; and Students for Justice in Palestine. The ADC's San Francisco chapter helped the student group develop its divestment campaign at a time when ADC's national leadership refrained from involving itself.

Founded in 1988, the California-based Muslim Public Affairs Council defines itself as "a non-profit social welfare organization" that aims to increase the awareness and involvement of Muslims in the political process, foster relationships with other religious and ethnic groups, build relations with elected officials and monitor the media's depiction of Muslims. An affiliated publication, The Minaret, publishes sometimes conspiratorially anti-Israel and anti-American material.

The Muslim Students Association, a constituent organization of the Islamic Society of North America, has organized several of the most extreme anti-Israel events on campuses in recent years. [Link http://www.adl.org/Israel/campus_antiisrael/default.asp] Established in 1963, the group has a strong presence at many universities in the U.S. and Canada.

Neturei Karta, a fringe ultra-orthodox Jewish sect, is founded on the idea that Zionism is literally demonic and responsible for many of the world’s evils. Spokesmen routinely call for the “dismantling” of the State of Israel and the empowerment of the Palestinians – who would then decide whether to allow any Jews to remain in their new state. Neturei Karta adherents believe that a promised messianic age cannot begin until Zionism is eliminated from the Middle East.

The New Black Panther Party for Self Defense is the largest organized anti-Semitic black militant group in America. It is led by Malik Zulu Shabazz, who has a long record of anti-Semitic agitation. Under Shabazz, the New Black Panthers organize demonstrations across the country in which inflammatory bigotry is interspersed among calls for black empowerment and civil rights.

New Jersey Solidarity, led by Charlotte Kates and consisting of students from Rutgers University in New Brunswick, has organized numerous anti-Israel events in New Jersey. In October 2003, New Jersey Solidarity hosted a divestment conference near the Rutgers campus which called for the dismantling of Israel and its replacement by a Palestinian state. In March-April 2004, New Jersey Solidarity cosponsored, with ANSWER and Al-Awda, rallies in support of Hamas, following the killing of two of its leaders.

The Palestine Solidarity Movement (PSM) is an umbrella organization that brings together primarily university-affiliated anti-Israel groups. Its primary focus is the divestment campaign against Israel, which it joined in 2002. The group refuses to condemn violent acts against Israeli civilians, stating, “…as a solidarity movement, it is not our place to dictate the strategies or tactics adopted by the Palestinian people in their struggle for liberation.” In its short existence, the PSM has convened major student conferences at Berkeley, the University of Michigan, Duke University, Rutgers University and Ohio State University – the last two held concurrently due to factional infighting.

The Queers Undermining Israeli Terrorism (QUIT!) supports divestment, the right of return for all Palestinians, immediate Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian territories and describes Zionism as racism. QUIT! has picketed Starbucks cafes for having stores in Israel, and Estée Lauder because the company’s founder serves as president of the Jewish National Fund. Another gay-rights group that has focused on criticizing Israel is Queers Against the Occupation.

SNAFU (Support Network for an Armed Forces Union) is an ANSWER creation that recruits disillusioned military personnel to protest U.S. actions during its rallies.

Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) initiated the anti-Israel divestment campaign in February 2001 at the University of California at Berkeley in conjunction with a local chapter of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. SJP wanted the university to withdraw its investments from companies doing business with Israel, claiming that “the people who run our universities are not just tacitly supporting but are actually benefiting from the exploitation of Palestinians.” SJP sought to emulate, in tactic and spirit, the 1980s divestment campaigns against apartheid South Africa. The campaign has since spread to universities around the country, where it is led either by new SJP branches or by extant local pro-Palestinian groups. With the proliferation of other divestment groups, SJP’s role in the movement has diminished.

SUSTAIN (Stop US Tax-funded Aid to Israel Now) was formed near the end of 2000. It describes itself as "a non-hierarchical, grassroots organization committed to supporting and sustaining the Palestinian movement for justice, human rights and self-determination…. We are committed to building a campaign against US military and economic aid to Israel so that US tax-dollars do not support the abuse of human rights." One of the key founders of the group is Mark Lance, a Professor of Philosophy at Georgetown University.

The U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation is a large-scale effort of many anti-Israel groups to promote divestment from Israeli companies and to lobby the U.S. Congress to end U.S. support for Israel as long as it occupies the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It was formed during the spring and summer of 2001, when groups of activists met in New York and Washington, D.C., to address the American role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The group was co-founded by Josh Ruebner, a pro-Palestinian activist who has accused Israel of committing “ethnic cleansing” of Palestinians. The U.S. Campaign’s major allies include Friends of Sabeel-North America, United for Peace and Justice, Global Exchange, and the divestment group, SUSTAIN.

[codedvirus]

Individuals

Al-Arian Dr. Sami, a frequent guest at anti-Israel campus events, is a Professor of Computer Science at the University of South Florida. He is currently suspended from teaching while the university investigates the legal consequences of firing him. Al-Arian was the president of a now-defunct charity, the Islamic Committee for Palestine, and of a think tank called the World and Islam Studies Enterprise. Investigations into alleged ties between these groups and Palestinian terror organizations did not result in criminal charges. However, video footage of conferences sponsored by ICP shows Al-Arian telling an audience, "Jihad is our path. Victory to Islam. Death to Israel. Revolution! Revolution! Until Victory! Rolling, rolling to Jerusalem." In another conference, in 1991, Imam Fawaz Damra, spiritual leader of the Islamic Center of Cleveland, said that "terrorism and terrorism alone is the way to liberation." Sharing the podium with Al-Arian, Damra also called for "directing all the rifles at the first and last enemy of the Islamic nation and that is the sons of monkeys and pigs, the Jews."

Huwaida Arraf, a Michigan-born Palestinian-American, is a co-founder of the International Solidarity Movement. She majored in Arabic and Judaic studies and political science at the University of Michigan, and founded an Arab-Jewish group there, according to The New York Times. She also spent time at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and studied Hebrew on a kibbutz. "I wanted to be involved in diplomacy between Israel and the Palestinians," she was quoted as saying in the Times. "I really wanted to understand the Jewish mentality and history, Israeli culture and society, and the language, so I would have the legitimacy on both sides that is needed to be a negotiator."

William Baker is a popular speaker among American Muslim student groups. Baker, head of Christians and Muslims for Peace, has a long history of anti-Semitic and anti-Israel activity. In the 1980s, he was a prominent associate of anti-Semitic publisher and Holocaust denier Willis Carto, chairing Carto’s extreme-right Populist Party. He also wrote Theft of a Nation, an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish book

Rann Bar-On , an Israeli-born Jew and a graduate student at Duke University, is a member of Hiwar (Arabic for “dialogue”), the local student group that co-sponsored the fourth Palestinian Solidarity Movement (PSM) conference at Duke University on October 15-17, 2004. He is also a member of the International Solidarity Movement. During the PSM conference, Bar-On compared the treatment of ‘Palestine’ by Israel to “Algiers under the French or Poland under the Nazis,” concluding that “there is always violence under occupation.” Bar-On also focused on the difficulties faced by anti-Israel activists in the U.S., where “any criticism of Israel is taken as anti-Semitism.”

Ramsey Clark is founder and leader of the International Action Center (IAC)—a front group for the Stalinist Workers World Party—which founded spun off International ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) in September 2001 to protest the bombing of Afghanistan. ANSWER has since become the main antiwar protest organizer in the United States. In 2003 ANSWER coordinated several major rallies opposing the war in Iraq which were marred by anti-Semitism and support for terrorism. Clark’s public legitimacy is based on his short tenure as Attorney General in the Lyndon Johnson administration, but Clark became a leftist activist almost immediately after his exit from government.

Abe Greenhouse is founder of Central Jersey Jews Against the Occupation (JATO), an anti-Israel student group that was part of a coalition of groups that that attempted to bring the third national PSM conference to Rutgers, where Greenhouse was a student. Greenhouse has volunteered worked with the International Solidarity Movement, taking part in its 2003 Freedom Summer campaign, but is best known for throwing a pie at Israeli Minister Natan Sharansky’s face, during a campus visit in . In September 2003.

Charlotte Kates , a student at Rutgers University, heads the radical anti-Israel group New Jersey Solidarity. In October 2003, New Jersey Solidarity hosted a divestment conference off near the Rutgers campus which that calls called for the dismantling of Israel and its replacement by a Palestinian state. In March and April 2004, Kates spoke at rallies in support of Hamas, following the killing of two of its leaders.

Mazin Qumsiyeh, a Yale University associate professor, is a founder and one of the main leaders of the radical anti-Israel group Al-Awda. During the fourth PSM Conference at Duke University in North Carolina on October 15-17, 2004, Qumsiyeh called Zionism “a disease” and claimed that the violence in the Middle East started with “the idea that the land belongs to the Jewish people.” Qumsiyeh also asked audience members, “If apartheid was a problem in South Africa, why do we consider it a solution in Palestine and Israel?” Mazin Qumsiyeh joined Wheels of Justice as a speaker in April 2004; at a stop at the Newtown High School in Connecticut on November 23, 2004, he said, “I would compare this Palestinian/Israeli situation with the Native Americans here in America when the colonials first came.” He explained, “The Native Americans were driven from their natural homes and led to live on small reservations. Huge populations were wiped out….There are approximately four million Jews living in America. Five billion dollars in military support goes to Israel every year. The American government is clearly behind Israel – at the expense of the Palestinians.”

Elias Rashmawi, a longtime activist in the Palestinian and Arab communities, has played a key role in injecting radical anti-Israel sentiments into the antiwar movement in the last two years as a leader of ANSWER and a member of Al-Awda, and works with many radical Palestinian anti-Israel groups. He is national coordinator of the National Council of Arab Americans and a member of the ANSWER Coalition’s steering committee. He is vice-president of the Greater Sacramento chapter of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and member of the national steering committee of the Free Palestine Alliance. Rashmawi also helped organize the Second International Cairo Conference where he and International Action Center head Ramsey Clark met with Hamas leader Osama Hamdan.

Fayyad Sbaihat , born on the West Bank, has, since 2003, described himself as a senior majoring in chemical engineering at the University of Wisconsin at Madison. A member of Al-Awda, Sbaihat was the national contact for the fourth PSM Conference at Duke University on October 15-17, 2004. During the conference, Sbaihat blamed the Israel/Palestinian conflict on “a colonialist mentality on the part of Zionists that the natives don’t matter.” According to Sbaihat, “the Palestinians are left on reservations and in ghettos. There was never really the possibility of a two-state solution.” Sbaihat also noted that the PSM is modeling its divestment campaign on the anti-apartheid efforts against South Africa and is trying to unite with similar campaigns around the world.

Adam Shapiro co-founded the International Solidarity Movement with Huwaida Arraf, a Palestinian-American born in Michigan who is now his wife, and Neta Golan, a Jew born in Israel to Canadian parents. Shapiro, who is also Jewish, found himself in a media spotlight when he accompanied an ambulance to Yasir Arafat's headquarters after it was surrounded by the Israeli military in March. During his stay, he reportedly had breakfast with Arafat. Shapiro has spoken throughout the country about the ISM's activities, and has outraged critics by comparing some instances of Israeli behavior toward Palestinians to that of the Nazis. Before joining the ISM full time he worked in Jerusalem for Seeds for Peace, an American nonprofit that promotes dialogue between Israeli and Palestinian youth.

Ora Wise, helped organize the third PSM conference at Ohio State University. In addition to being associated with the New York-based Jews Against the Occupation, she is a member of the International Solidarity Movement and other anti-Israel groups.

[Madeline]

You do some amazing work, Codedvirus. It will take me a couple more reads, but somehow you were able to answer many of my questions, and you somehow bring it all to full circle. Thank you.

[ygalg1]

True.
But there are reasons why they hate the jews so much.
In the qu'ran we are described as being treacherous,rejected by G-d,killers of the prophets,corruptors of the Torah, and destined to eternal torment in hell.
And yet we not only still exist, we rise to the top of every society in which we live.
And tiny israel has defeated 150 million arabs over and over and continues to be the strongest military power in the ME.

As the poet Irving layton once said of the muslims, we are stuck in their craw and they can't spit us out.
Our very existence puts the lie to what they have been taught about muslims,Islam,and the meaning of life itself.
No wonder they hate and fear us so.
you missed the part that we also assassinated muhammad (he deserved it)

[redcake]

The problem is people make it their whole identity to be ANTI things...to take up a cause against some thing or some one....but what organizations exist to combat this?

What pro-Israel groups exist? Kahanists? Those Jews who give gun range courses in Upstate New York? B'nai Brith doesn't count. Stand by Us are okay, but clearly ineffectual. Who do we have? There's that video going around on Youtube of some Pro-Israel organization who will oppose the two state solution, but they don't say who they are, or how they'll do it. It's fluff at this point. Who do we have as Israeli Americans, and the family/friends of Israelis to speak out? Clearly we need someone, and not because we need to influence US policy but because there are so many organizations who oppose us, equating us with Nazis and succeeding.

Why isn't there an organization in New York, or LA, or Florida, where Israelis are large in numbers to combat this. Not through websites, or standing on the street shouting with posters, but through new effectual means. We need a new movement, that is youth based, and educated, with the support to stop the backlash they'll receive to combat what's happening - or we're all in trouble.

[Yala]

We have no leaders we respect. How can the world respect leaders that we ourselves don't respect? That's the real problem.

[redcake]

True, but that is symptomatic of a larger problem. The world loves a self deprecating Jew.... I can't think of many popular Jews who overtly love themselves and aren't ashamed of their Zionism.

Most Zionists I know aren't prone to admitting it to their friends.

[Rob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlHPPO25nM&feature=channel_page

A demonstration in Amsterdam. Demonstrators chanting "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the chambers of gas".

Why is this tolerated? Why?

Btw, as a side note....the politician walking in front is a pacifict and denounced all kind of violence. Now, when Jews defend themselves I hear him shooting "intifadah, intifadah...." and stays quite to the call to send all Jews to the gas chambers. Just one example of the hypocrite left across the world...

[codedvirus]

You do some amazing work, Codedvirus. It will take me a couple more reads, but somehow you were able to answer many of my questions, and you somehow bring it all to full circle. Thank you.

The Muslim Students Association and the Jihad Network.
http://media2.terrorismawareness.org/files/MSA%20and%20Jihad%20Network%20v5b.pdf

I am pasting some of the information from the pdf
---------------------------
MSU and the Society of Arab Students (SAS) co-sponsored their fourth annual “Zionism Awareness Week,” during which members of both groups again wore
green armbands to show their support for Hamas..........
-----------------
In November 2003, MSA-UM co-sponsored the Palestine Solidarity Movement’s Third National Student Conference at Ohio State University.99 This event encouraged its attendees to pressure university administrations nationwide to withdraw any investments they may have held in companies
that conducted business with the Israeli government or army. Among the event’s co-sponsors were radical groups that included Al Awda, the Al-Bireh Palestine Society, the All- African People’s Revolutionary Party, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, BADIL, Code Pink, the
Committee for Justice in Palestine, Duke Divest, Friends of Sabeel, the Institute for Policy Studies, and SUSTAIN.
-------------

[codedvirus]

And now the circle is 99% complete.

[Yala]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlHPPO25nM&feature=channel_page

A demonstration in Amsterdam. Demonstrators chanting "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the chambers of gas".

Why is this tolerated? Why?

What do you mean why is it tolerated? Did you forget how the Dutch acted during the Holocaust? Who gave up Anne Frank? What do you think these people actually changed their feelings toward the Jews???

This stuff is also commonly sung at Football/Soccer games. I am surprised that you are surprised.

[Munitz Family]

I'm sure the Arabs were relying on these protests before they even began the attacks. They were expecting to send missiles, get a cease fire, and then rearm. This was no doubt their intended strategy. The next missiles would have probably hit Tel Aviv. I live in Beer Sheva which has mostly open spaces for the missiles to fall Tel Aviv is more congested and would have had more casualties.
Showing strength is the only way to stop the attacks. It is the way it is in the Middle East. The only other option would be to change the Arab mentality that compramise is a sign of weakness. I'm starting a website to chronical my live in Beer Sheva. It is really a spiritual paradise on earth. I hope to upload a video of my neighborhood tomorrow. Please support us
www.holylandsoap.wordpress.com

[ItsMyJewty]

Orginally Posted by Rob
A demonstration in Amsterdam. Demonstrators chanting "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the chambers of gas".

Shows Israel is on the right track. :)

[Justcurious]

And now the circle is 99% complete.

You can also say that 99 shots do not kill, only one does.

[pizza4theidf]

Yeah, I was in town the other day and I saw a huge crowd of people holding Palestinian flags and waving placards saying things like "Heartless Israel, Stop". I wonder whether they would be saying that if they were being attacked by rockets every day, but it proves that Israel is getting it right if we can piss off so many lefties.

[Madeline]

Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave an interview and was asked about Israel's occupation of Arab lands.
His response was "It's our land". The reporter from CNN was stunned. It's important information since we don't get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.

"Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict."

Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation.
These were compiled by a Christian university professor:

BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY.... ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!! )
It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugee s in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.
10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 430,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be 800,000, twice as many.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's 20 lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

[Yala]

Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave an interview and was asked about Israel's occupation of Arab lands.
His response was "It's our land".

Where did you see this? Youtube? Can you post the link?

[bararallu]

Yeah that would be something. Likud is a beaten dog, they parrot the line that Labor would have them say for the longest time. Like a drone... 2 state solution.... peace negotiations, concessions...

nonsense.

[KiwiWriter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlHPPO25nM&feature=channel_page

A demonstration in Amsterdam. Demonstrators chanting "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the chambers of gas".

Why is this tolerated? Why?

Btw, as a side note....the politician walking in front is a pacifict and denounced all kind of violence. Now, when Jews defend themselves I hear him shooting "intifadah, intifadah...." and stays quite to the call to send all Jews to the gas chambers. Just one example of the hypocrite left across the world...

We have politicians like him over hear as well and I wanted to run out into the street and give people cakes when they lost the last election :D.

One of ours (usual Green Party Commie) was involved in a Wellington protest along with 100 or so people (Mainly immigrants from MidEast and Somalia).

The media did report that they engaged in a shouting match with at least one bystander who asked them where they were while israel was being attacked. This appears to be the formula for the two other protests I'm aware of.

The newly elected National Government (perhaps more centrist or center right) is refusing at the moment to condemn the attacks and is supportive of the French position.

Even an editorial noted that Hamas needed to stop firing rockets and recognise Israel's right to exist and there have been many letters taking a similar position.

[Tonto]

I really don't know or understand where the anti-Jew, anti-Israel thing comes from. I didn't understand Hitler's thing or even my own parents bad feelings toward Jews. I don't care. My brother married a Jewish woman...he's happy about it. They're happy together. The Jews have been in that area where Israel is now for 3000 years+. It never was a country for the last 1400 years....just somebody's territory. The Jews took it over, it's been declared and recognized as Israel, the land of the Jews...that should be the frickin' end to it. Some asshats been trying to run the Jews out for 60 years and have been embarrassingly inept and unable to do it. That demonstrates that they (That group I think they call arabs or muslims) are the stupidest dingbats on the entire planet. Just too dumb to "get it". Like, living proof that we humans have managed to frustrate the purpose of "survival of the fittest" as an evolutionary tool. How can people that stupid continue to live? Now they're in Europe and the US talking some bad smack. I have no hope that this new Obamsiah government, which is made up of a party of "TransNationalProgressives" will ever "turn us loose" to deal with these muz thugs we now have dirtying up our streets. If I was Israeli, I think my attitude would be really hostile at any non-supportive pukes....I'd probably have enough of that poop by the time I was 11. If everybody is going to point their fingers and yak at me.....goody! I'll do whatever I want, knowing , even if I was to walk into Gaza and hand a $100. bill to each and every yeyhoo dingbat in there, they'd be bitching about "why ain't it $200.?" Ain't going to satisfy anybody anyway so I may as well satisfy myself...and do whatever I gotta do to get there. Can I get an AMEN and a HALLELULIA?????

[Madeline]

Where did you see this? Youtube? Can you post the link?
This is a quote from 1997:


Speaking in Jerusalem, Netanyahu gave voice to his deepest beliefs. Beyond the technicalities of implementing an interim agreement with the Palestinians, he rejected the common belief Israel is just a foreign occupier in the West Bank and has no business being there. "Well first of all we should be there. It is our country. It is our land. It is our patrimony."
http://www.israelfaxx.com/webarchive/1997/12/7fax1222.html

[Tonto]

That's a good point Madeline. The borders of Israel should be expanded to the ancient borders of Biblical times. Why not? The only problem is what to do with the muz lunatics living there......there ain't no rug to sweep them under and they're too dangerous to trust. Another interesting point is, after WWII there were refugees and DPs all over the place....all over Europe and everywhere else. The only people that were not resettled and got on with their lives were the people now called palestinian. They should have been easily resettled by their muz "brothers" but were left in place. For what purpose? There had to be intent, and obviously, resettlement has been suggested and denied by surrounding countries. What's up with that? Help me understand.

[ItsMyJewty]

Originally Posted by Tonto
There had to be intent, and obviously, resettlement has been suggested and denied by surrounding countries. What's up with that? Help me understand.

Half of Jordan's population is "Palestinian", but large numbers of them were killed and kicked out in the early seventies, because they posed a threat to the monarchy. Since then no Arab state's been willing to take them in. They're used as a stick to poke Israel with.

[bararallu]

Half of Jordan's population is "Palestinian", but large numbers of them were killed and kicked out in the early seventies, because they posed a threat to the monarchy. Since then no Arab state's been willing to take them in. They're used as a stick to poke Israel with.

It's more than half, they claim it's less than half but it is more like 70% at least. That said, and more rightfully, both WB, Israeli and Jordanian "Palistinains" are Syrian origin fellahin.

[codedvirus]

Popular mass demonstration in central Berlin]
!! Most of the participation of German cities ...!!

!! Stop the genocide before it is too late ...!!

Date:14:00 hr 10.01.2009
Saturday, 14:00 Uhr 10.01.2009

Please your children, women and men bring with (candles inside the glass a lot) and you have the flags of the Palestinian, Arab and others.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone wanna bet what gonna happen.

[KiwiWriter]

Popular mass demonstration in central Berlin]
!! Most of the participation of German cities ...!!

!! Stop the genocide before it is too late ...!!

Date:14:00 hr 10.01.2009
Saturday, 14:00 Uhr 10.01.2009

Please your children, women and men bring with (candles inside the glass a lot) and you have the flags of the Palestinian, Arab and others.
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Anyone wanna bet what gonna happen.

I'll give it a go. The usual professional scumbags (seeking something different from the anti-globalization protests) show up intent on peacefully putting their position across (still can't understand why they need their ski masks and full face motorcycle crash helmets to do this) eventually shop windows get smashed and cars get attacked.

[pizza4theidf]

Awful isn't it? It's proof that the Germans never really changed.

[kozzol]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/uk+protests+call+for+peace+in+gaza+/2901072

The organisers expected 100,000 demonstraters to turn up, the police say there was no more than 12,000. that is a big difference.

But again it goes to show that people in the UK are getting sick and tired of the muhammediens and their continuous bleating, especially after the terrorist attacks in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

[defari]

^wow, that video showed muslims praying on the streets. this is the first time i've seen muslims put a rag out on the street here in the west and get down and pray.

we will see more and more and more of this in the future. islam is taking over. the end.

[redcake]

I have to say, 20,000 angry nutjobs mobbing the streets, rioting, calling for death to Jews....it's unsettling to say the least.

Whether this represents Islam or it's a sacrilege to how moderate their religion requires them to be, at this point, I do not care. Leftists have been telling us agin and again that being anti-Israel isn't anti-semitic, but they seem incapable of separating or recognizing the two.

So I'm not sure what the solution is, but sitting here upset about it doesn't seem to be the answer, and belittling the numbers isn't going to work either. It's shocking if even 10 people are turning up for these rallies wearing terrorist colors.

[Madeline]

I have to say, 20,000 angry nutjobs mobbing the streets, rioting, calling for death to Jews....it's unsettling to say the least.

Whether this represents Islam or it's a sacrilege to how moderate their religion requires them to be, at this point, I do not care. Leftists have been telling us agin and again that being anti-Israel isn't anti-semitic, but they seem incapable of separating or recognizing the two.

So I'm not sure what the solution is, but sitting here upset about it doesn't seem to be the answer, and belittling the numbers isn't going to work either. It's shocking if even 10 people are turning up for these rallies wearing terrorist colors.
What is even more unsettling, and I pointed that out before, is that those who should know better are taking to the streets. History repeats itself, or so it seems.

[pizza4theidf]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/politics/international_politics/uk+protests+call+for+peace+in+gaza+/2901072

The organisers expected 100,000 demonstraters to turn up, the police say there was no more than 12,000. that is a big difference.

But again it goes to show that people in the UK are getting sick and tired of the muhammediens and their continuous bleating, especially after the terrorist attacks in the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

Unfortunately Kozzol, I think that 100, 000 is closer to the mark - or possibly even more. I was in London today with family and I saw the march go past - and no way was there only 12, 000 people. So I think that goes to show that they're not getting sick of it - quite the opposite.

The police always underestimate the numbers at these events - they're just sticking their heads in the sand, as usual. :mad: :unsure:

[pizza4theidf]

I have to say, 20,000 angry nutjobs mobbing the streets, rioting, calling for death to Jews....it's unsettling to say the least.

Whether this represents Islam or it's a sacrilege to how moderate their religion requires them to be, at this point, I do not care. Leftists have been telling us agin and again that being anti-Israel isn't anti-semitic, but they seem incapable of separating or recognizing the two.

So I'm not sure what the solution is, but sitting here upset about it doesn't seem to be the answer, and belittling the numbers isn't going to work either. It's shocking if even 10 people are turning up for these rallies wearing terrorist colors.

Well, big demonstrations are always very disorderly, and unfortunately with the financial crisis getting like it is, we're going to see more and more of this stuff. I think the police need to stop being so spineless and use their emergency powers more.

[defari]

Unfortunately Kozzol, I think that 100, 000 is closer to the mark - or possibly even more. I was in London today with family and I saw the march go past - and no way was there only 12, 000 people. So I think that goes to show that they're not getting sick of it - quite the opposite.

The police always underestimate the numbers at these events - they're just sticking their heads in the sand, as usual. :mad: :unsure:




kozzol's post made me happy, now you made me sad. 100,000 is a alot. dammit. dumb non-muslims who support them.

[kozzol]

pizza4theidf I have been on demo's and I know how it can look, the biggest one was the poll tax demo, I do not believe for one minute there was a 100,000 people to night demonstrating because the police may get it wrong, but not that wrong.

Also there would have been more than 300 at the end of it tonight, but lets hope I am right and ou are wrong on this one.

[Yala]

12k or 100k makes no difference to me. These people are calling to burn us in ovens. Let's take them at their word this time and not be stupid like before. Redcake is right.

[Mediocrates]

To the people who defend Hamas on the basis that rockets don't kill thousand of Israelis I suggest that because violent crime doesn't kill nearly as many people as disease that we should disband every single police force and law enforcement organization in the west. Erase murder, rape, assault from the books as actual crimes.

[Mediocrates]

I want the pro Hamas folks in the west to fund and operate a Gaza birthright program for all the junior anarchists and haters. Go to Gaza for 60 days for free as guests of the Hamas. Either they will become shahids or they will get killed in street violence. It's a win win.

[KiwiWriter]

dumb non-muslims who support them.

I think they're called useful idiots by the mullahs. I can think of lots of other terms for them :D

[KiwiWriter]

I want the pro Hamas folks in the west to fund and operate a Gaza birthright program for all the junior anarchists and haters. Go to Gaza for 60 days for free as guests of the Hamas. Either they will become shahids or they will get killed in street violence. It's a win win.


That sounds like a programme I'd be willing to give money to. :D

[Tonto]

I read a letter tonight in which a guy said that moderate moslems are irrelevant. He said that the fanatics are the ones running amok and the ones that just want to live in peace and prosper are cowed into submission and are doing nothing. I believe he may be right. The Germans before WWII may have thought the nazis were fools but did nothing and were suddenly totally controlled by those fools. The Russians, the Chinese, same thing. The moderates sat on their butts and let it happen and BINGO, before they knew it .........deep doo-doo. That just happened in America in the last election...and the pain of that will be worldwide, no doubt. In actual numbers, more people voted for McCain, but the electoral college votes had to give it to the little . That's a little something to think about.

[defari]

There seems to be a pro-Israeli protest in London today. CNN says 1000+ showed up. Hope we hear more about this.

[devilsmaster2]

Indian from London here and just wanted to say that I fully support Israel's war on Hamas... I know there have been protests all over the world and the media has been giving Israel bad reports (especially here in the UK) but I think Israel are fully justified in this war. Hamas are a terrorist group who want to exterminate Isarel and clearly need to be eradicated.

I also think Israel should be praised for taking a hardline against these extremist muslims unlike my own country India who a splineless cowards and do nothing despite countless attacks by Pakistan. Our prime minister has given his support for Palestine but the man is a moron. Thankfully our country no longer has confidence in him and a lot of people support Israel. Hopefully India will offer its full support to Israel in the future.

[defari]

^hi there. another Indian. That's great. I'm really starting to believe now that lots or most Hindu Indians support Israel. Enjoy your stay here.

Do your friends support Israel as well?

[devilsmaster2]

^hi there. another Indian. That's great. I'm really starting to believe now that lots or most Hindu Indians support Israel. Enjoy your stay here.

Do your friends support Israel as well?

Most of them support Israel or anyone who will stand up to these Muslim extremists
frankly we are tired of being constantly being targeted and attacked by terrorists and really need to do something about pakistan

[andak01]

Well hmm, there weren't 20,000 people protesting here and 10,000 there and a cardinal in the Vatican comparing Gaza to a concentration camp, and Italian unions boycotting, etc. during normal Israel defense operations which included bombing and tanks and destroying homes, etc. What's different now? IT'S THE TREMENDOUS PREPONDERANCE OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES STUPID!!! That's the price of taking 30 times as many Palestinian civilians (by accident) as they take of Israel (on purpose).

[ItsMyJewty]

Originally Posted by andak01:
IT'S THE TREMENDOUS PREPONDERANCE OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES STUPID!!!

Absolutely. And all this could have been avoided if Hamas had invested as much money in building bomb shelters as they have in weapons.

[defari]

Most of them support Israel or anyone who will stand up to these Muslim extremists
frankly we are tired of being constantly being targeted and attacked by terrorists and really need to do something about pakistan


But India has a huge Muslim population. I doubt India will be able to do anything about Pakistan. There have been anti-Israel demonstration in India as well (mostly by Muslims I think). Hindus probably don't dare say much against Islamic terrorism. Then you also have communists in India who hate USA and prefer to get closer to China instead. I'm so glad that there are Hindus who understand Israel's problems. Israel doesn't want to fight, but it has do. It has no choice.

[ItsMyJewty]

India's an interesting example. The Arabs' demand for a state within Israel is abit like Muslims demanding a state in India when they've already got one - Pakistan.

The so called two-state solution is, in fact, a 3-state solution, leaving Israel with vey little land. Arab countries occupy 640 times the landmass as does Israel.

[defari]

Pakistan should have never been created. That land is Indian.

If Muslims want Israel wiped off the map, then Muslims need to give Pakistan back to India so that Pakistan also disappears from the map.

[devilsmaster2]

But India has a huge Muslim population. I doubt India will be able to do anything about Pakistan. There have been anti-Israel demonstration in India as well (mostly by Muslims I think). Hindus probably don't dare say much against Islamic terrorism. Then you also have communists in India who hate USA and prefer to get closer to China instead. I'm so glad that there are Hindus who understand Israel's problems. Israel doesn't want to fight, but it has do. It has no choice.

Yes but if you take into account the fact that India's overall population is massive the Muslim population is not as big as it seems...it is statistically about 14%....also a lot of the muslims in india consider themselves to be Indian and would actually support action against Pakisan e.g. a lot of muslims refused to allow the dead mumbai terrorists to be buried in their graveyards...there are of course muslims in India that are anti-Israel and protested but there are muslims like that everywhere even in the UK...the communists thankfully do not have much power
the problem with India is the fact that a we currently have a spineless politically party in power who are lenient to terrorists...if our Hindu party (BJP) comes to power( I think they will in the next elections) they will take more of a hardline...BJP has already given its full support for Israel

[Madeline]

Yes but if you take into account the fact that India's overall population is massive the Muslim population is not as big as it seems...it is statistically about 14%....also a lot of the muslims in india consider themselves to be Indian and would actually support action against Pakisan e.g. a lot of muslims refused to allow the dead mumbai terrorists to be buried in their graveyards...there are of course muslims in India that are anti-Israel and protested but there are muslims like that everywhere even in the UK...the communists thankfully do not have much power
the problem with India is the fact that a we currently have a spineless politically party in power who are lenient to terrorists...if our Hindu party (BJP) comes to power( I think they will in the next elections) they will take more of a hardline...BJP has already given its full support for Israel

14% out of how many? It's still a lot of Muslims.

[devilsmaster2]

Pakistan should have never been created. That land is Indian.

If Muslims want Israel wiped off the map, then Muslims need to give Pakistan back to India so that Pakistan also disappears from the map.
Yes creating Pakistan was a mistake and the fault of Gandhi who was too kind and the British who only made problems
Pakistan was apparently meant to be a state for the muslims but we still have to endure millions of muslims in India while the few remaining Hindus are wiped out in Pakistan....

also muslims in India are not demanding a new country....they are happier to liver here than Pakistan...it is Pakistan who is demanding more land (Kashmir) from us....there is our country we will give them Kashmir but I would personally be happy to give them Kashmir on the condition that all muslims leave as well

Honestly we dont want Pakistan back.....we would be happy for the muslims to keep Pakistan as long they stop breeding terroists and attacking us but that will never happen

[devilsmaster2]

14% out of how many? It's still a lot of Muslims.

Over a billion which is massive I know
but we don't really have many problems with them in India
yes there are some extreme elements that need to be sorted out but the rest are happy as Indian citizens as they are better off here than Pakistan

[defari]

if our Hindu party (BJP) comes to power( I think they will in the next elections) they will take more of a hardline...BJP has already given its full support for Israel


You're the second Indian here that talks well about this BJP party. I don't know much about them. But if you guys support them, so will I. I hope they win.

Btw, you call BJP a Hindu party. Why is that? Do they think about the welfare of the Hindus over the Muslims?

Here in Islamic Europe it's different. You can't say you are a Jewish Party or a Christians party. That will not get you elected. European parties always have to talk well about the immigrants (read "muslims") and think about them FIRST before their own natives.

[defari]

Pakistan was apparently meant to be a state for the muslims but we still have to endure millions of muslims in India while the few remaining Hindus are wiped out in Pakistan.



Same happened with Jews when they were kicked out (sadly by their own Jews but at the command of the Muslims) out of Gaza.

Therefore Israel and India need to stick together. Both suffered ethnic/religious cleansing.

[devilsmaster2]

You're the second Indian here that talks well about this BJP party. I don't know much about them. But if you guys support them, so will I. I hope they win.

Btw, you call BJP a Hindu party. Why is that? Do they think about the welfare of the Hindus over the Muslims?

Here in Islamic Europe it's different. You can't say you are a Jewish Party or a Christians party. That will not get you elected. European parties always have to talk well about the immigrants (read "muslims") and think about them FIRST before their own natives.
They don't really say directly that they favour Hindus but they advocate Hindu nationalism and more importantly take a hardline on terror...they are not afraid of offending the minority to protect the country. I really hope they get elected because we need allies like Israel in the war on terror....not Palestine
yeah I know what you mean about europe...parties like labour here in the UK are always sucking up to muslims depsite the problems they cause like the tube bombings

[andak01]

Absolutely. And all this could have been avoided if Hamas had invested as much money in building bomb shelters as they have in weapons.

Then they would have been arrested for building tunnels or decried for destroying archealogical sites. But to put matters straight, I do condemn their rockets. And I condemn the almost 30 Israelis killed by them since 2001 as individual acts of terrorism.

[ItsMyJewty]

andak01:
Then they would have been arrested for building tunnels or decried for destroying archealogical sites.

Bomb shelters not tunnels. Arrested by whom?

[defari]

They don't really say directly that they favour Hindus but they advocate Hindu nationalism and more importantly take a hardline on terror...they are not afraid of offending the minority to protect the country. I really hope they get elected because we need allies like Israel in the war on terror....not Palestine

yeah I know what you mean about europe...parties like labour here in the UK are always sucking up to muslims depsite the problems they cause like the tube bombings



sounds like a good party. hope they will win.

about Europe and the USA, I always wondered how come other national, ethnic or religious minorities like Jews, Hindus, Chinese and many others don't cause any problems???? They don't always keep asking for more and for special rules.

How many Hindu tempels exist in London? Tell me, I'd liked to know? And how many Mosques are in London? Do you know that too maybe?

I'm not Jewish nor Hindu, but I have absolutely no problem with Synangogues, Hindu and Buddhist tempels. Build as many of them as you like all over Europe. Actually, the more of them the better.

I only have problems with Mosques which are used to spread hate, even bashing the host country which gives them permission to build their mosques.

You are Hindu right? And it is well known that Britain has lots of NRIs. How come I NEVER EVER hear about Hindus trashing buildings, burning flags, fighting with the police in London? Why is that?

How come the Hindu minority never starts riots in Britain and can live peacefully there, but Muslims can't? I simply just don't get it. I really don't.




EDIT: I found this video disturbing. It was posted on Faithfreedom forum but it's from Jihad watch. A person and his girlfriend put up an Israeli flag on the inside of their window to show support for Israel. The demonstrating Muslims on the streets don't like it and the German police to calm them down goes up to the apartment and removes the flag off the window.

That is the violation of human right. An Israeli flag is not an offense. People should have the right to put up a flag in their own house. The couple should sue the German police.

link to the story and video:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024345.php

That is the FUTURE OF EUROPE ladies and gentlemen. You will only be able to express what is permitted to you by Muslims. Ask them for permision first. They are the masters now. They control the Europe's police too.

[devilsmaster2]

sounds like a good party. hope they will win.

about Europe and the USA, I always wondered how come other national, ethnic or religious minorities like Jews, Hindus, Chinese and many others don't cause any problems???? They don't always keep asking for more and for special rules.

How many Hindu tempels exist in London? Tell me, I'd liked to know? And how many Mosques are in London? Do you know that too maybe?

I'm not Jewish nor Hindu, but I have absolutely no problem with Synangogues, Hindu and Buddhist tempels. Build as many of them as you like all over Europe. Actually, the more of them the better.

I only have problems with Mosques which are used to spread hate, even bashing the host country which gives them permission to build their mosques.

You are Hindu right? And it is well known that Britain has lots of NRIs. How come I NEVER EVER hear about Hindus trashing buildings, burning flags, fighting with the police in London? Why is that?

How come the Hindu minority never starts riots in Britain and can live peacefully there, but Muslims can't? I simply just don't get it. I really don't.

Chinese,Jews, Hindus,etc. are happy to live peacefully and integrate into the community...Muslims on the other hand still hate the west despite the fact that liev here and cannot integrate into society

There are a few temples in London.....but a massive number of mosques...not sure how many exactly...I remember someone telling me that the number is one of the highest in the west

And your's right....a lot of problems start at the mosques becuause imams spread hatred against the west there...a lot of the london tube bombers and copycat bombers were taught to hate the west in mosques

Yes I am Hindu and again your right...Hindus and other minorities are happy to live in peace and do not cause trouble...while muslims are inolerant to other religions, ignorant and constantly try to force their religion on you. for example some of these idiots actually want to impose sharia law or some elements of sharia law in the uk......i hope this never happens because I will never live under sharia law in any country.....the problem with muslims is that they are backwards, intolerant and bigoted and as long as they keep going to mosques even the new generation of muslims will behave in the same way

[defari]

devilsmaster2, you being Hindu/Indian also means that you are Asian. Now I have read some articles in the past talking about riots in London and from pictures anyone could tell that they were Pakistanis.

However, newspapers, to be politically correct, usually say "a group of people of Asian descent started protesting...........blah blah blah". When pictures clearly show that the group is Muslim and Pakistanis.

You as a peaceful Hindu (Asian as well) doesn't that piss you off when they say "off Asian descent"? Because Asian descent could mean anybody even you (Hindus). A riot started by people of "Asian descent" gives a bad name and reputation to all Asians, including all the peaceful ones, like Hindus, Budhists, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.

I would totally be pissed of if they dragged my religion/nationality into describing something that was clearly caused by Muslim Pakistanis. But nobody dares to call them out by name specifically.



I'm actually very saddend to be honest to hear that there are only few Hindu tempels in London. Wikipedia says that "The number of Hindus in London is around 450,000, of which most are of Indian descent." That's a lot, and only a few tempels? I wish we could replace every Muslim in Europe with Hindus. Hindus seem one of the kindest, friendliest, peaceful, non-confrontational and tolerant people in the world. Too bad we got more Muslims than Hindus here. Such a shame. Why can't more Hindus come to Europe and help us with the increasing number of Muslims.

[devilsmaster2]

devilsmaster2, you being Hindu/Indian also means that you are Asian. Now I have read some articles in the past talking about riots in London and from pictures anyone could tell that they were Pakistanis.

However, newspapers, to be politically correct, usually say "a group of people of Asian descent started protesting...........blah blah blah". When pictures clearly show that the group is Muslim and Pakistanis.

You as a peaceful Hindu (Asian as well) doesn't that piss you off when they say "off Asian descent"? Because Asian descent could mean anybody even you (Hindus). A riot started by people of "Asian descent" gives a bad name and reputation to all Asians, including all the peaceful ones, like Hindus, Budhists, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.

I would totally be pissed of if they dragged my religion/nationality into describing something that was clearly caused by Muslim Pakistanis. But nobody dares to call them out by name specifically.



I'm actually very saddend to be honest to hear that there are only few Hindu tempels in London. Wikipedia says that "The number of Hindus in London is around 450,000, of which most are of Indian descent." That's a lot, and only a few tempels? I wish we could replace every Muslim in Europe with Hindus. Hindus seem one of the kindest, friendliest, peaceful, non-confrontational and tolerant people in the world. Too bad we got more Muslims than Hindus here. Such a shame. Why can't more Hindus come to Europe and help us with the increasing number of Muslims.

I actually meant to say quite a few temples.....the number of temples is not really that low but the number is mosques is very large here

Yeah it is annoying when they say of Asian descent but that is the problem with the government....they are too apologist and scared to offend muslims...if they make any statements about muslims there are allegations of racism and islamophobia.... there are a lot of double standards with muslims here....these are the same people who are intolerant and breed terrorists but are offended by the smallest negative comment about Islam....Anyway I don't really feel that offended by comments like Asian descent anymore because most British people know but now that it is the asian muslims and not hindus who create trouble

I feel exactly the same way about jews,christians,buddhists,etc........infact most religions seem to be able to coexist peacefully...it is only muslims who are difficult to live with.....There are fewer Hindus than muslims in europe because Hindus these days tend to have fewer children.....the hindus in europe might actually decrease soon because if India does evetually go to war with Pakistan a lot of Hindus like me will go back to fight

[ItsMyJewty]

defari: That is the FUTURE OF EUROPE ladies and gentlemen. You will only be able to express what is permitted to you by Muslims. Ask them for permision first. They are the masters now. They control the Europe's police too.

Indeed it is. Maybe we should all become Muslims... Yesterday, on Algeria TV (this was in French and there were French Muslims listening and ringing in), a very "learned" gentleman explained that Isreal is an expansionist state and that Jews are a bloodthirsty people who murder children. He also said there's no proof that the Western Wall is part of the Second Temple. Such nice people! And what a wonderful recruitment campaign!

[redcake]

Then they would have been arrested for building tunnels or decried for destroying archealogical sites.

Why are you trying to give the impression Hamas aren't given their fair shake?
Yeah it's because of bias against Hamas that they didn't build shelters. Poor Hamas, damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[redcake]

I want the pro Hamas folks in the west to fund and operate a Gaza birthright program for all the junior anarchists and haters.

Isn't that what the ISM and those human shield, boating trips are for?

[Mediocrates]

No, today they stay on their boats like they're in Monaco.

[ygalg1]

Pro-Hamas Demonstration - Fort Lauderdale FL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3Xl68kP4wo)

[defari]

Indeed it is. Maybe we should all become Muslims... Yesterday, on Algeria TV (this was in French and there were French Muslims listening and ringing in), a very "learned" gentleman explained that Isreal is an expansionist state and that Jews are a bloodthirsty people who murder children. He also said there's no proof that the Western Wall is part of the Second Temple. Such nice people! And what a wonderful recruitment campaign!


This is the new Europe:

Muslim prayer protest in front of Milan cathedral
http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/28102008/1780682/CAC139_hh.jpg

[devilsmaster2]

If you haven't seen already here are some of the protests
They caused chaos in London
and these clowns are protesting for peace in Palestine....these Hamas supporters should be deported

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-violence.html

[ItsMyJewty]

defari: This is the new Europe:

Muslim prayer protest in front of Milan cathedral
http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/2.../CAC139_hh.jpg

You know, if you go on showing me pictures like this I just won't be able to resist the ever growing call from within - to convert to Islmofascism.

[ItsMyJewty]

devilsmaster2: If you haven't seen already here are some of the protests
They caused chaos in London
and these clowns are protesting for peace in Palestine....these Hamas supporters should be deported

I know, they're so angry, aren't they? Israel must be doing something right.

[defari]

yeah it is unbelievable how these muslims claim to preach peace and tolerance and then go and wreck the whole city and put everything they come across on fire.

anyone remember burning of embassies after the danish mohammed cartoon? or when they burned a Swiss flag because idiots thought it was a Danish flag.

or more recent, I saw one picture on Faith Freedom of a muslim protester holding a sign saying "Death to all juice" or something. Just as well, cuz I don't mind juice dying, better than Jews.

http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/muslim-protester1.jpg

[AlanSilver]

the words peace and tolorence mean nothing to a muslim

they are just angry because someone else is killing them, something they usually do rather well

[Y. Shulamith]

As Dennis Miller so succinctly put things "the arabs had no interest in the Jews until the Jews began growing oranges as big as basketballs.."


LOL..

[pizza4theidf]

pizza4theidf I have been on demo's and I know how it can look, the biggest one was the poll tax demo, I do not believe for one minute there was a 100,000 people to night demonstrating because the police may get it wrong, but not that wrong.

Also there would have been more than 300 at the end of it tonight, but lets hope I am right and ou are wrong on this one.

Yeah, I hope so too.

[devilsmaster2]

I heard there were about 10,000 at the pro israel protests...
can anyone confirm this?

[pizza4theidf]

Unfortunately, I think it was about half that :(

[kozzol]

They are talking 3000-4000, but something which I noticed and have constanly watched the news, unlike the mohammediens who were flying an assortment of flags of terrorist and palestinian except for the Union Jack, the pro-Israel supporters flew the Star of David and the Union Jack.

Again it goes to show that Anglo Jewery have intergrated and see ourselves as part of the United Kingdom. Where upon the third, second and first generations of mohammediens do not want to intergrate.

[sunshine]

i attended the pro israel ralley in trafalger square yesterday (london)

i dont know if those not living in london know this as the media is well in coo coo land with regards to the palestinian cause

but the pro palestine rallys held two days ago, saturday london time. Turned violent, they ended up smashing the window of the starbucks and trashed it. They believe starbucks donate money to israel etc or some crap like that

anyway, if a jew would have got lost in that rally i assure you he would have been knocked out or stabbed.

in our rally yesterday arabs tried to run through, and when they were kicked out by police, i shouted 'scum' to which a police office ran up to me and started screaming at me for saying that.

i said its not like im smashing shop windows, this is freedom of speech

he then said that was yesterday this is today and this is to show support for your country not shout at others

this was said whilst the arabs/muslims/liberal and anti israel jews including chassidic anti israel jews were shouting israel terrorists, baby killers etc etc the works

it sickend me to see the anti israel jews there

the nazis killed those jews who helped them in ww2, and what do you think the arabs would do to these jews if one day they got what they wanted

[kozzol]

First of all I commend you for showing your support for Israel in person at Trafalgar Square.

As far as the police go, I am sure they would like to do more than shout at pro palestinian demonstraters, but their hands are tied due to the political correctness whgich exsist in the UK.

Also after the aggression which was directed towards the police by these mohammediens, durring their pro palestinian, al aqhida, hamas and hezbollah demonstration on saturday, will have got them on tender hooks.

I am proud that the pro Israel demonstration went without incident as it shows we are not like the mohammediens, who have no regard for British law and who will use any means to get their point of view across, examples:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23584232-details/Islamic+radicals+make+mockery+of+hate+laws/article.do

clip from write up


More than 200 Muslims at a packed public meeting in Tower Hamlets were told by organiser Anjem Choudary: "We have a special surprise, a special treat for you. Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad will be joining us on a live feed from Lebanon." He added: "As Muslims, we will not submit to any man-made law, any government, or any prime minister - Bush or Brown - or [to] Jacqui Smith. We submit to Allah."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1055422/Merchants-Hatred-On-anniversary-9-11-terrifying-investigation-reveals-hatred-Britains-enemies-within.html

[Tonto]

The muz have been bullies to the world for far too long. It's time somebody start doing something about it besides the US and Israel. What happened to everybody's guts? Go there and clobber one.....bring a bat and slap it upside one's head.

[sunshine]

the muslims are burning themselves out

i prey for the day that the world realizes what were dealing with

its such a shame, and i will ring this up until the day i die, that rabbi kahane died. What a tradegy.

The day israel banned his party was the day they signed a metaphorical waver stating we will submit to the arabs in our own nation and let them terrorize our people.

jews cant even march or go into arab villages, in our own nation. Jews can get stabbed to death in the arab quarters of jerusalem.

this is the real tradegy

these protests are relatively harmless, world opinion... well they already hate us

but the real problem lies within the arabs of israel

[ItsMyJewty]

ygalg1: Pro-Hamas Demonstration - Fort Lauderdale FL

We musn't forget that its was the likes of Loudspeaker Man, Oven Girl, and their friends who were responsible for 9/11 and many other atrocities around the world. This filth must be kept down - in the West and in Israel.

[the_knight]

yeah it is unbelievable how these muslims claim to preach peace and tolerance and then go and wreck the whole city and put everything they come across on fire.


I watched this demo from a pub and firstly the vast majority were white British, not Muslims, and secondly those that did cause trouble were, in the words of the police 'a small number' out of the 100,000 'which made their point peacefully'.

Secondly, the trouble was confined to an area of a few square yards and certainly didn't involve wrecking 'the whole city', of hundreds of square miles, as you suggest.

I don't think this sort of hyperbole helps the cause too be honest.

[sunshine]

i saw the thing on the news

and yes its true what was so disgusting was that the majority were stupid white liberals and general scumbags who just wanted to fight

the smashed a starbucks window to pieces

and were lobbing rods and glass bottles at the police, this was not just in one area, it was all over the place

the anti semetism was brewing

so i dont know where this guy above me gets his info from

[Y. Shulamith]

I do hate to say it because it is "old" history but our friends, the Brits can be a bunch of Neville Chamberlains, "peace in our time" folks who delude themselves until the bombs are falling on their damn heads and then come crying to the USA with a stiff upper lip and HELP GET US OUT OF THIS mess.

I do hope that the "stiff upper lip" Brits get it through their collective heads that they have a problem that needs addressing, confrontation now and not later and that the problem isn't going to go away..... problems get bigger, like a pimple that finally pops and leaves pus everywhere...(pardon my unsavory reference), AND that political correctness will become their undoing if they let this fester a whole lot longer......

[ItsMyJewty]

Y. Shulamith: I do hope that the "stiff upper lip" Brits get it through their collective heads that they have a problem that needs addressing, confrontation now and not later and that the problem isn't going to go away..... problems get bigger, like a pimple that finally pops and leaves pus everywhere...(pardon my unsavory reference), AND that political correctness will become their undoing if they let this fester a whole lot longer......

Well said!:clap:

The problem's being compounded by the "let's-take-our-pants-down" wet Lefties (who seem to favour Muslim immigration into our countries and are very critical of Israel) and sell-out Jews who openly criticize Israel at every opportunity.:tdown:

[the_knight]

i saw the thing on the news

and yes its true what was so disgusting was that the majority were stupid white liberals and general scumbags who just wanted to fight

the smashed a starbucks window to pieces

and were lobbing rods and glass bottles at the police, this was not just in one area, it was all over the place

the anti semetism was brewing

so i dont know where this guy above me gets his info from

You saw it ‘on the news’, what was shown on the news was the violence caused by a ‘small number’ (and do remember that is the police description) near the embassy, which was shameful.

But, it was not ‘all over the place’ as you claim and I’ll tell you where I get this info from – from being there and seeing it with my own eyes, both from watching the march go past and walking the area afterwards. I spoke with police officers on the surrounding streets, which were not even in riot gear, and asked if it was safe and they just suggested keeping away from the embassy.

There were also families, even with kids in pushchairs, and pensioners, so to imply it was mainly ‘scumbags’ looking for trouble is somewhat dishonest to say the least.

And I’ll tell you something else, we saw Jews in that march carrying placards in support of Gaza – this situation is not as black & white as some people seem to want to believe.

I wish it were.

[sunshine]

and your shocked about the jews holding the banners saying ' jews against the war in gaza'

this is old news my friend. Jews suffer with a form of jewish aids called 'guilt'.

they were at the pro israel rally too

those jews that helped hitler in ww2 were killed once the officers didnt need them

the same thing will happen to these pathetic sell out jews

i dont see why your defending these supporters

the fact is that there was a ridiculous amount of violence even if it was as you say only concentrated in one area

i saw it all on tv whilst you were holding hands with the "kids in pushchairs, and pensioners" .

they were throwing bottles and poles at the police. An office was wounded. They smashed open the starbucks

nothing of the sort happened at the pro israel rally

saying it was a few radicals is sidelining the issue

the fact is nobody there condemned this behavior

there are no good pro palestinians and there are no bad pro palestinians

there are clever ones and stupid ones

the dumb ones actually burn the israeli flags

the clever ones just stand there and smile at the flag being burnt

[kozzol]

I do hate to say it because it is "old" history but our friends, the Brits can be a bunch of Neville Chamberlains, "peace in our time" folks who delude themselves until the bombs are falling on their damn heads and then come crying to the USA with a stiff upper lip and HELP GET US OUT OF THIS mess.

Britain will not go crying to America as we will deal with our own problems the same way we always have dealt with them.

It will come about inthe end with a change of Goverment policy or even a change of Goverment.

[Yala]

Britain will not go crying to America as we will deal with our own problems the same way we always have dealt with them.


:lol:

[ItsMyJewty]

So entertaining in here at the moment...

[kozzol]

:lol: Very entertaining indeed

[Y. Shulamith]

Britain will not go crying to America as we will deal with our own problems the same way we always have dealt with them.

It will come about inthe end with a change of Goverment policy or even a change of Goverment.

Yeah, I see that you're all dealing with these problems with the muzzies real, real well....giving each of them a mouthpiece and a talking head and allowing these animals to rule your streets.

As I said, let's see some political incorrectness, some moxie, some guts and some action. Let's see ya'll trash Annie Lennox and her nitwit Israeli divorcee ideas. No wonder her Israeli husband divorced her.....what trash.

:rock:

[Madeline]

Yeah, I see that you're all dealing with these problems with the muzzies real, real well....giving each of them a mouthpiece and a talking head and allowing these animals to rule your streets.

As I said, let's see some political incorrectness, some moxie, some guts and some action. Let's see ya'll trash Annie Lennox and her nitwit Israeli divorcee ideas. No wonder her Israeli husband divorced her.....what trash.

:rock:

You know, we are not much better over here. We let them use our own Constitution against us, with freedom of Religion and all.
Think of the foot baths alone. We have our pro Palestinian protests here as well. And it will get worse.
When I discuss as much with folks over here, all I hear is "how good the moderates are". People are sticking their heads in the sand, and it gets worse by the day.
As long as the Muslims protest, we will cater.

[kozzol]

Unfortunately this problem is every where and it will become worst unless decisive action is taken. For instance I am all for freedom of speech, but I found it offensive when I see placards in support of Al Qahida, when the coalition forces are actually on the battle fields fighting these very people and losing lives and taking causalties.

[pizza4theidf]

Unfortunately this problem is every where and it will become worst unless decisive action is taken. For instance I am all for freedom of speech, but I found it offensive when I see placards in support of Al Qahida, when the coalition forces are actually on the battle fields fighting these very people and losing lives and taking causalties.

I agree, I think that people who wave those sort of banners should be arrested and detained, and placed in a secure area away from everyone else, with a few rings of barbed wire around them, watchtowers, guards, that sort of thing.

[Steven]

I agree, I think that people who wave those sort of banners should be arrested and detained, and placed in a secure area away from everyone else, with a few rings of barbed wire around them, watchtowers, guards, that sort of thing.

Agreed, those that support enemy terrorist groups should be locked up. In NYC the Muslims have attacked non-Muslims there and we are heading in the same direction as the UK. It is just not as bad yet.

[Madeline]

Agreed, those that support enemy terrorist groups should be locked up. In NYC the Muslims have attacked non-Muslims there and we are heading in the same direction as the UK. It is just not as bad yet.

Give CAIR, the ACLU, and Hollywood just a bit more time. We'll get there, esp. during the Obama administration. You read the article in which Malcolm X's daughter sees support for Muslims during that time, right?
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85748

[Steven]

I watched this demo from a pub and firstly the vast majority were white British, not Muslims, and secondly those that did cause trouble were, in the words of the police 'a small number' out of the 100,000 'which made their point peacefully'.

Secondly, the trouble was confined to an area of a few square yards and certainly didn't involve wrecking 'the whole city', of hundreds of square miles, as you suggest.

I don't think this sort of hyperbole helps the cause too be honest.

A country has some real problems if that many people are rallying for Hamas. Please do not try and downplay it.

[kozzol]

I have got to admit we have been glued to the news of late and the footage we seen time and time again of the pro palestinian demo, was mainly mohammediens, yes there was white leftist there but the bulk was mohammediens.

[Mediocrates]

Look no one cares as long as it's Jewish stores and synagogues getting attacked. That's axiomatic. No one cares. And no one will until regular 'white' people get capped. Then if recent history is any guide, the governments of UK, France and the US will chalk it up to youthful hooliganism and unworthy of any serious response.

[Mediocrates]

http://ejpress.org/article/33582

JERUSALEM (EJP)---A joint delegation of nine members of the European Parliament and members of the national parliaments from France and Belgium paid a two-day visit to Israel and the West Bank last week in order to understand the ongoing situation in the Gaza conflict.

Organized by "European Friends of Israel," a pan-European pro-Israel-lobby, the two-day mission was led by German Christian-Democrat MEP Elmar Brok.

"The purpose of this mission was to give the MPs the opportunity to understand what the situation for thousands of Israeli citizens living close to the Gaza Strip is but also to give them the chance to hear the explanations of senior political leaders and experts both from Israel and the Palestinian Territories,” said Dimitri Dombret, director of EFI.

On Thursday, while arriving in the morning in the southern city of Sderot, a rocket alert rang and the delegation quickly ran to protect itself into a shelter.

Once the alert was over, the MPs were briefed by the Mayor of Sderot Eli Moyal and by Olivier Rafowitz, the Israeli army spokesman, about the ongoing situation.

In Tel Aviv, the parliamentarians visited the Tel Hashomer hospital where both Palestinians citizens and Israeli soldiers wounded during the current conflict are being treated. In the evening, the delegation met in Jerusalem with Israel’s president, Shimon Peres.

On Friday, the delegation traveled to the West Bank town of Ramallah for talks with Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad and Rafiq Husseini, chief of staff of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

[Mediocrates]

During an anti-Israel march, Dutch parliament member Harry van Bommel chants “Intifada!” while in the background can be heard another chant: “Hamas, Hamas, Joden aan het gas!” (”Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas!”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLlHPPO25nM&eurl=http://www.hurryupharry.org/&feature=player_embedded

[the_knight]

the fact is that there was a ridiculous amount of violence even if it was as you say only concentrated in one area

i saw it all on tv whilst you were holding hands with the "kids in pushchairs, and pensioners" .

they were throwing bottles and poles at the police. An office was wounded. They smashed open the starbucks



Sorry my keyboard is playig up - as you ca see the letter betwee 'B' & 'M' is ot workig, I hope you ca make sese of what I am typig.

Please STOP misreprestig me ad postig lies!

1 - I was ot part of this march, I was watchig it ad walked aroud after the evet, so I was ot “holding hands with the kids in pushchairs, and pensioners”.

2 – There was’t a ‘ridiculous amount of violence’ as you claim, it was a few doze out of over 100,000 people that caused trouble – oe officer, out of thousands o duty, was wouded ad oe coffee shop out of hundreds of premises o the route was smashed.

Let's just accept the facts of what happeed ad ot make matters worst by makig a moutai out of a mole hill. :)

[the_knight]

I agree, I think that people who wave those sort of banners should be arrested and detained, and placed in a secure area away from everyone else, with a few rings of barbed wire around them, watchtowers, guards, that sort of thing.

What like like the azis did to my parets.

Is't time we foud aother way forward. :(

[the_knight]

Unfortunately this problem is every where and it will become worst unless decisive action is taken. For instance I am all for freedom of speech, but I found it offensive when I see placards in support of Al Qahida, when the coalition forces are actually on the battle fields fighting these very people and losing lives and taking causalties.

"I found it offensive when I see placards in support of Al Qahida" - so do i, but o that Lodo demo o saturday they were i very small umbers, dotted amog 90%+ of placards that were ot showig support for Al-Qahida or the Hamas scum.

Ad this is what people eed to uderstad - the vast majority were ot marchig i support of Hamas, if they were I would be able to dismiss what I saw, whereas I am troubled by the reactio from maily 'ormal' people.

[kozzol]

When you see a mass of people walking pass it can seem alot more than there actually are. I will go with the police reportage and what I have seen through the media.

12,000 demonstrators and a hard core of 300-500 causing havoc near the Israeli Embassy, one police officer knocked out.

[bararallu]

How many non NK Jews attended the anti-Israel protest? anyone know?

[pizza4theidf]

Unfortunately mate, I think quite a lot. As I said, I was in London when I saw the march walk past and I saw quite a few normal-looking people - not black hatters or anything like that - carrying placards saying things like "I'm Jewish and I denounce Israel's massacres in Gaza" that sort of thing :(

[the_knight]

When you see a mass of people walking pass it can seem alot more than there actually are. I will go with the police reportage and what I have seen through the media.

12,000 demonstrators and a hard core of 300-500 causing havoc near the Israeli Embassy, one police officer knocked out.

The police said 20,000, the BBC reported at least 50,000, most other ews sources, icludig Sky ews ad the Daily Mail reported over 100,000.

I watched, from a pub, that march go pass, about 30-40 deep o the road, - ad it took 3 hours from start to fiish, that's bloody big!

Ca you post pictures or youtube clips here? If so how?

Oly I thik a few of you would be shocked by the size of this demo I witessed.

[bararallu]

Unfortunately mate, I think quite a lot. As I said, I was in London when I saw the march walk past and I saw quite a few normal-looking people - not black hatters or anything like that - carrying placards saying things like "I'm Jewish and I denounce Israel's massacres in Gaza" that sort of thing :(

No estimates though?

To paraphrase Hillel, they march for their enemies, but who will march for them?

[pizza4theidf]

I don't know. If we take the overall size of the march to be 100, 000 then I'd say at least a few hundred.

[bararallu]

Thats not so bad. The zealots make their appearance, everyone else is on the fence at worst.

[pizza4theidf]

The problem is, the total Jewish community in the UK is only about 250, 000, and several famous British Jews, such as Michael Rosen and Harold Pinter, etc, have been among the worst Hamas supporters you could ever meet. For every Jewish person that went on the march, there would have been many more who would have been brainwashed by the media into opposing their own land.

There have even been letters by prominent British Jews in the Guardian, rabbis and the like, calling for Israel to stop defending itself :(

[bararallu]

The problem is, the total Jewish community in the UK is only about 250, 000, and several famous British Jews, such as Michael Rosen and Harold Pinter, etc, have been among the worst Hamas supporters you could ever meet. For every Jewish person that went on the march, there would have been many more who would have been brainwashed by the media into opposing their own land.

There have even been letters by prominent British Jews in the Guardian, rabbis and the like, calling for Israel to stop defending itself :(

I would say the primary agenda of reasonable, and pro Israel, British Jews is to ostracize and publicly marginalize these people. Communist Jews, like e.g., Takeos parents did immense damage to the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe. Thousands died for their crimes and commizar shoe licking. Disabusing these people of any opinions should be the #1 agenda topic for the Jewish community in the UK.

[redcake]

Well, Harold Pinter is now dead, as of Xmas.

[pizza4theidf]

I would say the primary agenda of reasonable, and pro Israel, British Jews is to ostracize and publicly marginalize these people. Communist Jews, like e.g., Takeos parents did immense damage to the Jewish communities in Eastern Europe. Thousands died for their crimes and commizar shoe licking. Disabusing these people of any opinions should be the #1 agenda topic for the Jewish community in the UK.

I agree, people who betray their own homeland should be disabused of all their opinions. I liked the tactics of the people in Manchester who stood outside the house of a Neturei Karta rabbi and chucked eggs at his windows.

[bararallu]

I agree, people who betray their own homeland should be disabused of all their opinions. I liked the tactics of the people in Manchester who stood outside the house of a Neturei Karta rabbi and chucked eggs at his windows.

NK has embraced Holocaust denial, they are beyond the ken, their position on Israel are just insult to injury.

[pizza4theidf]

Indeed.

[Mediocrates]

http://zombietime.com/gaza_war_protest/

The usual, kill all Jews, Jews must die, wipe out Israel etc etc. Also strangely the Oscar Brand shooting in Oakland is now part of the Infinite Jew Menace.

Also the Queers for Palestine are cute. Especially since the entire LGBT community would be executed if they went to Gaza, and, they have more rights in Israel than they do in San Franciso.

Last but not least, Obama is now a Jew Puppet and Zionist mass murderer.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Aryan+Guard+Gaza+protest/1168132/story.html


Whereas Nick Griffin in the UK (BNP) hates the Palestinians more than he hates Jews.


People people people stick to the script.

[Mediocrates]

turns out these people were ex Red Army Faction losers:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1226404730069&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

[Tonto]

The problem is, the total Jewish community in the UK is only about 250, 000, and several famous British Jews, such as Michael Rosen and Harold Pinter, etc, have been among the worst Hamas supporters you could ever meet. For every Jewish person that went on the march, there would have been many more who would have been brainwashed by the media into opposing their own land.

There have even been letters by prominent British Jews in the Guardian, rabbis and the like, calling for Israel to stop defending itself :(

So would you say these guys were actually pro hamas or more accurately appeasers at any price for an end to war? That seems to be a common thing among liberals....especially comfortable liberals that never worked a day in their lives or ever had to scuffle in the street. I don't understand their stupidity but I've seen it all too often.

[Yala]

It only surprises me that people on this forum actually thought these people changed. They laid low for a while, that's all.

[pizza4theidf]

It only surprises me that people on this forum actually thought these people changed. They laid low for a while, that's all.

Yes, they all laid low, now they're all coming out of the woodwork :D

[Madeline]

http://zombietime.com/gaza_war_protest/

The usual, kill all Jews, Jews must die, wipe out Israel etc etc. Also strangely the Oscar Brand shooting in Oakland is now part of the Infinite Jew Menace.

Also the Queers for Palestine are cute. Especially since the entire LGBT community would be executed if they went to Gaza, and, they have more rights in Israel than they do in San Franciso.

Last but not least, Obama is now a Jew Puppet and Zionist mass murderer.

I so agree with your take on the "cute queers". This link needs a special warning. When I looked at it last night, and saw the Zombies in the first few pic, it seemed like one of the 'Heinz 57' protests. Then I scrolled down, and I about spewed my tea all over.
Codedvirus posted a "why the protest" some days ago, which may explain some of this, but it is beyond me where all this blind hatred, and this idiotic herd mentality comes from. I just can't wrap my head around this...I just can't. It's almost like a bad dream.
Where is all of this going to end? Will these people ever be happy?

[Yala]

Yes, they all laid low, now they're all coming out of the woodwork :D

Yes, and you are one of them. Pig.

[Madeline]

Very interesting IDF videos showing how the media is twisting facts...the media won't show these....for sure....

This is the first time the IDF takes on the dominance of the thousands of Arabist propaganda on You Tube paid out of Riyadh...things are gonna change BIG TIME....!


http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk

These are documentation, not propaganda...big difference...

[Mosche]

What really makes me disgusted with the media is the statements that they make, and no one presses them on those statements. For example, they will say things like "more innocent civilian casualties", but they do nothing to prove the innocence of the so-called civilians.

[Madeline]

What really makes me disgusted with the media is the statements that they make, and no one presses them on those statements. For example, they will say things like "more innocent civilian casualties", but they do nothing to prove the innocence of the so-called civilians.
I watched the videos several times. I wonder how the MSM will spin their way out of these? Could they?
P.S. We shall ask Andak.

[ItsMyJewty]

Thanks for the link to the videos, Madeline, they're very interesting! :) The one showing the booby trapped school and zoo (that was in fact shown on Aljazeera English) is particularly distressing to watch - I don't how someone can do such a thing.

[Madeline]

Thanks for the link to the videos, Madeline, they're very interesting! :) The one showing the booby trapped school and zoo (that was in fact shown on Aljazeera English) is particularly distressing to watch - I don't how someone can do such a thing.
It seems that the 'Religion of Peace' may have sanctioned it?

[Yala]

Thanks for the link to the videos, Madeline, they're very interesting! :) The one showing the booby trapped school and zoo (that was in fact shown on Aljazeera English) is particularly distressing to watch - I don't how someone can do such a thing.

Just be aware that al Jazeerah English is very diff. from al Jazeerah Arabic. Sort of like the BBC, but not as bad.

[Brody15]

Any time I read news from google or yahoo, I have to fact check it. Google news is particularly bad when it comes to the current situation in Gaza. All you read about is how Israel is "possibly" using phosphorus, and showing pictures of guys hauling out bloody babies with headlines about "nations demand Israel stop the war" etc etc. Rediculous.

[ItsMyJewty]

yala: Just be aware that al Jazeerah English is very diff. from al Jazeerah Arabic. Sort of like the BBC, but not as bad.

Yes, I sometimes watch al Jazeerah Arabic (do you?) - interesting images... a sort of kaleidoscope of hate. While al Jazeerah English does try to remain balance, they fail most of the time - whenever there's a discussion, two out of the three guests on the programme are pro-Palestinian. And they just can't help criticizing Israel every chance they get. White phosphorus has become the topic of the week.

There are other Arabic channels that sometimes broadcast in French (such as Algeria TV) - their anti-Israel bias is much more virulent! Gives you an idea of what they must be saying in Arabic (can't understand a word of that, but every other word is "israel" or "America").

[KiwiWriter]

Last but not least, Obama is now a Jew Puppet and Zionist mass murderer.


Wow, that's impressive. I didn't think he was in office yet, so it's a pretty good achievement :D

[KiwiWriter]

I read a letter tonight in which a guy said that moderate moslems are irrelevant. He said that the fanatics are the ones running amok and the ones that just want to live in peace and prosper are cowed into submission and are doing nothing. I believe he may be right. The Germans before WWII may have thought the nazis were fools but did nothing and were suddenly totally controlled by those fools. The Russians, the Chinese, same thing. The moderates sat on their butts and let it happen and BINGO, before they knew it .........deep doo-doo. That just happened in America in the last election...and the pain of that will be worldwide, no doubt. In actual numbers, more people voted for McCain, but the electoral college votes had to give it to the little . That's a little something to think about.

Never did understand your system that well. I thought it was only Bush and the Republicans that won elections without getting the majority votes? At least that's what Michael Moore always said. :D

[KiwiWriter]

If you haven't seen already here are some of the protests
They caused chaos in London
and these clowns are protesting for peace in Palestine....these Hamas supporters should be deported



Isn't it interesting how those demanding Peace and Justice are often violent law breakers?

[KiwiWriter]

The muz have been bullies to the world for far too long. It's time somebody start doing something about it besides the US and Israel. What happened to everybody's guts? Go there and clobber one.....bring a bat and slap it upside one's head.

What happened over here is that all those students who protested the Vietnam war got their degrees, grew a little older and got themselves voted into office. They also still think everyone will be happier when they get into power.

[KiwiWriter]

I so agree with your take on the "cute queers". This link needs a special warning. When I looked at it last night, and saw the Zombies in the first few pic, it seemed like one of the 'Heinz 57' protests. Then I scrolled down, and I about spewed my tea all over.
Codedvirus posted a "why the protest" some days ago, which may explain some of this, but it is beyond me where all this blind hatred, and this idiotic herd mentality comes from. I just can't wrap my head around this...I just can't. It's almost like a bad dream.
Where is all of this going to end? Will these people ever be happy?

The perpetual victim never is, especially if that's the way they make their living.

[KiwiWriter]

What really makes me disgusted with the media is the statements that they make, and no one presses them on those statements. For example, they will say things like "more innocent civilian casualties", but they do nothing to prove the innocence of the so-called civilians.


Especially when terrorists don't wear uniforms like soldiers do.

[Madeline]

I like this guys first comments to the so called Journalists:


Fighting the Media War in Gaza

By Andrew Lee Butters / Jerusalem Wednesday, Jan. 14, 2009


A television journalist delivers a report from the Israeli side of the Gaza border
Spencer Platt / Getty


The arrival of Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, a.k.a. Joe the Plumber, at the Israeli border town of Sderot on Sunday caused a minor sensation among the members of the foreign press who were camped out there. Wurzelbacher, who got his first 15 minutes of fame as a prop for John McCain during last year's U.S. election campaign, has swapped his plunger for a reporter's notebook on a mission to cover the Gaza war for the conservative website Pajamas TV. Unable to see much of the fighting himself, Wurzelbacher — who during the election campaign warned that a vote for Barack Obama was a vote for the destruction of Israel — picked a fight of his own. Turning on his new colleagues in the foreign press corps, he groused, "You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be patriotic, protect your family and children, not report like you have been doing for the past two weeks since this war has started." His complaint, it seemed, was that he was seeing too many reports of civilian casualties inside Gaza.

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* The Middle East Blog.com » Blog Archive Gaza: Civilians Under Siege (2) «
* Despite Gaza Attacks, Hamas Thinks It Has the Upper Hand
* How Badly Has Hamas Been Hurt in Gaza?





But the reality is that Western reporters have done little reporting from the front lines of this latest phase of the world's most reported conflict. Barred by Israel from entering Gaza even before the firing started, most foreign reporters can only get near the war zone by chasing down the occasional rocket sent by Hamas into Israel. Still, the press has once again found itself caught in a different kind of cross fire: the propaganda battle, across all media platforms, between Israel and Hamas (and the supporters of each) for international sympathy. And the reason Joe the Plumber is angry is that, despite (and perhaps also because of) Israel's overwhelming military superiority, the Jewish state is losing on the propaganda front. (See pictures of 60 years of Israel.)

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...871487,00.html

[Tonto]

Never did understand your system that well. I thought it was only Bush and the Republicans that won elections without getting the majority votes? At least that's what Michael Moore always said. :D

Well, dude, Mr. Moore is a whole new subject. The man is all about "shock rock" like Alice Cooper singing "Dead Babies". It's a money making thing that appeals to the leftist wingnuts we have here and thereby makes Mr. Moore big bundles of money, while the lefties sit in theatres having self hate orgiastic spasms.:vomit:

[KiwiWriter]

Well, dude, Mr. Moore is a whole new subject. The man is all about "shock rock" like Alice Cooper singing "Dead Babies". It's a money making thing that appeals to the leftist wingnuts we have here and thereby makes Mr. Moore big bundles of money, while the lefties sit in theatres having self hate orgiastic spasms.:vomit:

When in reality they should be rushing to see The Lord of the Rings movies, the Narnia movies and any other movie made by and here in NZ :D. I'm sure we can spend the money a whole lot better than Mr Moore.;)

[Mediocrates]

Published by Ben Cohen (http://blog.z-word.com/author/bcohen/)
on January 14, 2009

http://blog.z-word.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/starbucks.jpg (http://blog.z-word.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/starbucks.jpg)
The word “Frappuccino” may have taken on a meaning which its inventors never intended. Starbucks, the international coffee shop chain, has been targeted by furious pro-Hamas demonstrators because of its “support for the Israeli war machine.”
The above picture is from Beirut (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j05OyjM5-H8wpGzCw4JLjs1__QNAD95MG3BG0). During the recent riot (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5488885.ece) near the Israeli Embassy in London, the local branch had its window smashed in. Since then, another London branch has been firebombed (http://www.thelondondailynews.com/whitechapel-race-attacks-intensify-starbucks-firebombed-p-2156.html).
Just one minor detail which probably won’t bother the posturing agitators too much: the Israel story is a myth (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/damian_thompson/blog/2009/01/14/the_starbucks_conspiracy_theory_how_a_coffee_chain _was_libelled_by_antizionists) which originated in the warped mind of an Australian antisemite, Andrew Winkler, whose latest project is entitled Jews Anonymous (http://www.jews-anonymous.org/). In the spirit of the customer feedback so beloved of companies like Starbucks, why not visit Andrew’s site and tell him exactly what you think?

[Mediocrates]

A Starbucks in London’s East End has been fire-bombed.
Early this morning, thugs smashed their way into the coffee shop as the manager hid inside the office. As he watched on the security monitor in the office, they daubed racist graffiti and finally lobbed a molotov-cocktail through the plate-glass window. Luckily he managed to make it to the fire-escape and raise the alarm. Fire-fighters managed to stop the flames spreading to the adjacent buildings.
At Indymedia (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/418334.html), it is being flagged up as a triumph of “peace activism” (”Smashing the Israeli war machine - Starbucks, Whitechapel firebombed ” is the headline). But sane people, see this for what it is: thoughtless terror and attempted murder. Sane people know that Whitechapel shops often have residential properties above them and that fires spread quickly through the tightly packed buildings. But then sane people know that Starbucks isn’t an Israeli company (http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/pressdesc.asp?id=971) either. Sane people know that firebombing shops because you think they’re owned by Jews… oh let’s not waffle: sane people know that firebombing shops is not legitimate political activism - for any reason. Even Spiked Online gets it (http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6103/).
Depressingly, the news that a shop in London was firebombed and daubed with antisemitic graffiti seems only to have been reported in the local press (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030) - and of course, crowed about at Indymedia.
So what is causing this? Who are the people hoping to incite Kristallnacht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht) 2.0? Some have pointed their finger at George Galloway, with his call (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/11/israels-shops/) to “shut down Israel shops”. The Respect machine is now in overdrive, letting it be known (http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3377) that he was referring to a handful of small booths that operate in shopping centres, selling cosmetics. We take him at his word (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/12/how-to-shut-down-the-israel-shops/). Of course, one of these “Israel Shops” was smashed up in Belfast earlier this week.
Galloway must, of course, have been very sure that his audience knew which particular chain of shops he was taking about, and was, no doubt, very surprised to find that others thought he was encouraging action to be taken, generally, against businesses connected to Israel. His spokesman, Rob Hoveman, even went so far as explain that Galloway opposes a boycott of Marks and Spencer. But, as a socialist, does he have no regard for the safety and the livelihoods of the workers at those businesses he thinks deserve targetting? Are they to blame for the war in Gaza? Where was this ’socialist’s’ reminder to respect the staff while “shutting down” shops?

Starbucks daubed with Magen Dovid in Beirut

And then of course there is Ken Livingstone’s chum, Dr Qaradawi, who Ken describes as one of the “most influential” Islamic scholars today. He certainly is influential. Qaradawi said five days ago (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/12/kill-them-down-to-the-very-last-one/):

Here in Qatar, we have a branch of Marks and Spencer, which regularly dedicates its Saturday revenue to Israel. We have a Starbucks, which serves coffee. They used to hand a sign on the doors of their shops: “We benefit our most important partner, which is Israel, we help in the education of students in Israel, we help build up the Israeli defense arsenal,” and so on. People go and drink their expensive coffee. Instead of paying 2 riyals for a cup of coffee, they pay 20 riyals. This Starbucks is Zionist. Why do we not teach the nation to make do with its own products, when possible, even if they are of lesser quality? This is the only way the nation will rise. My brothers, put the boycott against the nation’s enemies into action. Every riyal you pay turns into a bullet in the heart of your brothers in Gaza and in other Islamic countries.
This call, and other similar calls by Qaradawi to boycott shops thought to be connected to Israel, was based on a transparent lie. So naturally, they were republished on websites all over the world. One ended up on the site of the Young Muslim Organisation UK. Here is one such call, presented as the answer to a query (http://www.ymouk.org/?p=295) on what action to take against business “supporting the Israeli War Machine”.The YMO is the youth wing (http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflicts/democracy_terror/islamist_journey_around_faith_nation) of the disgraced Bangladeshi fascists, Jamaat-e-Islami. They operate out of the London Muslim Centre, a wing of the Jamaati controlled East London Mosque: the institution chosen by the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Phillips (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7488790.stm), for his endorsement of sharia law systems in the United Kingdom. It is within walking distance of the firebombed Starbucks.
In Kensington, London (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23617276-details/Rioters+attack+Starbucks+and+loot+shops+in+anti-Israel+demo/article.do), a Starbucks is smashed, in Lebanon (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j05OyjM5-H8wpGzCw4JLjs1__QNAD95MG3BG0) one is shut down. And now another London Starbucks has been bombed (http://www.thelondondailynews.com/whitechapel-race-attacks-intensify-starbucks-firebombed-p-2156.html).
Half a mile away, a Tesco delivery van was attacked by a gang of Asian youths. The driver - a working stiff, surely no agent of Israel - was hospitalised with head injuries and needed seven stitches. In nearby Commercial Road, a Tesco supermarket was targeted this weekend, the windows smashed and “KILL JEWS (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030)â € daubed on the walls in paint.
And none of this is making the national media!

[Mediocrates]

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/15/the-zionist-menace-in-london/


I stopped taking Indymedia too seriously a long time ago, but it remains a Huxleyesque doorway into the minds of the far-left and self-proclaimed “anti-fascists” and self-deluding “anti-racists”, and of course the anarchist, extreme animal rights and anti-globalisation luddite crowd.
Of course, in truth, you will find more fascists, racists and loons there than anywhere else. The trouble is, they think they’re the vanguard of a brave new world.
Today’s hilarity is a post (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/418470.html?c=on#comments) tagged - without the slightest hint of irony - ”resist fascism”. It begins:

The Zionist menace is on the move again this week with another rally this time against Iran’s supposed support for Hamas.
Excuse me? “The Zionist menace”?
This, obviously, is a little play on words. The original phrase was “The Jewish menace”. And where would you find this?
In Mein Kamf, of course. In the section (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion) defending The Protocols of the Elders of Zion!
We at Harry’s Place have been warning about the stready rise of antisemitism in the Left for years, and have been mocked for it. But it is no longer something which can be dismissed or denied. It’s right here, today, in our faces.
Self-proclaimed anti-fascists paraphrasing Mein Kampf - what’s next, you might ask?

[Tonto]

There has been a rise in anti-islam/anti-arab feelings too, with, of course, much more reason. There has also been a rise in anti-yuppie, anti-left-wingnut, anti-punk rocker, and the ubiquitous anti-yankee. The rednecks here in the southern parts of the USA (the old Confederacy) are becoming restless. They've heard that these people are all anti-Jesus, anti-country music, and may have been responsible for the death of Dale Earnhardt (the famous NASCAR race driver). That means the whole aforementioned bunch may be in more trouble than a drugged up hamas thug with a broken AK in Gaza. The media is more careful here because the wrong article, and a little 'shine, could set the whole thing off. The media lies like an arab on El Jizzera anyway. Most folks, with the exception of a few idiots, don't pay much attention to the media except for the lottery numbers. Protesters are just an inconvenience and irritant...that step away when rednecks show up.

[Brody15]

A Starbucks in London’s East End has been fire-bombed.
Early this morning, thugs smashed their way into the coffee shop as the manager hid inside the office. As he watched on the security monitor in the office, they daubed racist graffiti and finally lobbed a molotov-cocktail through the plate-glass window. Luckily he managed to make it to the fire-escape and raise the alarm. Fire-fighters managed to stop the flames spreading to the adjacent buildings.
At Indymedia (http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/01/418334.html), it is being flagged up as a triumph of “peace activism” (”Smashing the Israeli war machine - Starbucks, Whitechapel firebombed ” is the headline). But sane people, see this for what it is: thoughtless terror and attempted murder. Sane people know that Whitechapel shops often have residential properties above them and that fires spread quickly through the tightly packed buildings. But then sane people know that Starbucks isn’t an Israeli company (http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/pressdesc.asp?id=971) either. Sane people know that firebombing shops because you think they’re owned by Jews… oh let’s not waffle: sane people know that firebombing shops is not legitimate political activism - for any reason. Even Spiked Online gets it (http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6103/).
Depressingly, the news that a shop in London was firebombed and daubed with antisemitic graffiti seems only to have been reported in the local press (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030) - and of course, crowed about at Indymedia.
So what is causing this? Who are the people hoping to incite Kristallnacht (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht) 2.0? Some have pointed their finger at George Galloway, with his call (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/11/israels-shops/) to “shut down Israel shops”. The Respect machine is now in overdrive, letting it be known (http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=3377) that he was referring to a handful of small booths that operate in shopping centres, selling cosmetics. We take him at his word (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/12/how-to-shut-down-the-israel-shops/). Of course, one of these “Israel Shops” was smashed up in Belfast earlier this week.
Galloway must, of course, have been very sure that his audience knew which particular chain of shops he was taking about, and was, no doubt, very surprised to find that others thought he was encouraging action to be taken, generally, against businesses connected to Israel. His spokesman, Rob Hoveman, even went so far as explain that Galloway opposes a boycott of Marks and Spencer. But, as a socialist, does he have no regard for the safety and the livelihoods of the workers at those businesses he thinks deserve targetting? Are they to blame for the war in Gaza? Where was this ’socialist’s’ reminder to respect the staff while “shutting down” shops?

Starbucks daubed with Magen Dovid in Beirut

And then of course there is Ken Livingstone’s chum, Dr Qaradawi, who Ken describes as one of the “most influential” Islamic scholars today. He certainly is influential. Qaradawi said five days ago (http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/12/kill-them-down-to-the-very-last-one/):

Here in Qatar, we have a branch of Marks and Spencer, which regularly dedicates its Saturday revenue to Israel. We have a Starbucks, which serves coffee. They used to hand a sign on the doors of their shops: “We benefit our most important partner, which is Israel, we help in the education of students in Israel, we help build up the Israeli defense arsenal,” and so on. People go and drink their expensive coffee. Instead of paying 2 riyals for a cup of coffee, they pay 20 riyals. This Starbucks is Zionist. Why do we not teach the nation to make do with its own products, when possible, even if they are of lesser quality? This is the only way the nation will rise. My brothers, put the boycott against the nation’s enemies into action. Every riyal you pay turns into a bullet in the heart of your brothers in Gaza and in other Islamic countries.
This call, and other similar calls by Qaradawi to boycott shops thought to be connected to Israel, was based on a transparent lie. So naturally, they were republished on websites all over the world. One ended up on the site of the Young Muslim Organisation UK. Here is one such call, presented as the answer to a query (http://www.ymouk.org/?p=295) on what action to take against business “supporting the Israeli War Machine”.The YMO is the youth wing (http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflicts/democracy_terror/islamist_journey_around_faith_nation) of the disgraced Bangladeshi fascists, Jamaat-e-Islami. They operate out of the London Muslim Centre, a wing of the Jamaati controlled East London Mosque: the institution chosen by the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Phillips (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7488790.stm), for his endorsement of sharia law systems in the United Kingdom. It is within walking distance of the firebombed Starbucks.
In Kensington, London (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23617276-details/Rioters+attack+Starbucks+and+loot+shops+in+anti-Israel+demo/article.do), a Starbucks is smashed, in Lebanon (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j05OyjM5-H8wpGzCw4JLjs1__QNAD95MG3BG0) one is shut down. And now another London Starbucks has been bombed (http://www.thelondondailynews.com/whitechapel-race-attacks-intensify-starbucks-firebombed-p-2156.html).
Half a mile away, a Tesco delivery van was attacked by a gang of Asian youths. The driver - a working stiff, surely no agent of Israel - was hospitalised with head injuries and needed seven stitches. In nearby Commercial Road, a Tesco supermarket was targeted this weekend, the windows smashed and “KILL JEWS (http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/content/towerhamlets/advertiser/news/story.aspx?brand=ELAOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsela&itemid=WeED13%20Jan%202009%2020%3A43%3A18%3A030)â € daubed on the walls in paint.
And none of this is making the national media!

I really hope Starbucks doesn't balk at this.

[Tonto]

Years ago, when the blacks in Watts (part of San Francisco) went nuts and rioted, the korean shop owners had an excellent answer. They put shotgunners on the roofs and shotgunners in the stores to forestall looting and burning. One store owner even went so far as to sit up a couple bodies of would-be looters up against the wall outside his store as a "visual aid". Of course, I'm not advocating such actions, but they were effective. Nobody had the temerity to bother that store further. Something to.......think about.

[codedvirus]

Anti-Israel Demonstration - West LA on Jan. 10, 2009 (Mods please delete this message if already posted)
http://www.ringospictures.com/index.php?page=20090110

[redcake]

I suppose we should take to wearing arm bands when in public. (only palestinians have tried to appropriate that one too.)

[KiwiWriter]

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/15/the-zionist-menace-in-london/



The Zionist menace is on the move again this week with another rally this time against Iran’s supposed support for Hamas.
Excuse me? “The Zionist menace”?
This, obviously, is a little play on words. The original phrase was “The Jewish menace”. And where would you find this?
In Mein Kamf, of course. In the section (http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion) defending The Protocols of the Elders of Zion!
We at Harry’s Place have been warning about the stready rise of antisemitism in the Left for years, and have been mocked for it. But it is no longer something which can be dismissed or denied. It’s right here, today, in our faces.
Self-proclaimed anti-fascists paraphrasing Mein Kampf - what’s next, you might ask?

My understanding is that anti-Zionism is the fashionable politically correct way of being anti-semetic. These people usually say "I'm not anti-semetic because I don't hate the Jews." That's usually just before they launch into the anti Israel rant.

I've always viewed the two as the same thing, but then again I'm not a sophisticated Liberal.

[Mediocrates]

Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS), a pro-Palestinian organisation, has, for the past four years, been trying to do to Israel exactly what it says on its campaign tin: boycott, divest and impose sanctions against it unless ‘it complies with international law and universal principles of human rights’. Until Israel began its assault on Gaza, it was a call that had largely gone unheeded.

(http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/about/syndicate/6104)Now, however, as the war in Gaza enters its third week, really, really strongly worded condemnations featuring the phrase ‘utterly disproportionate’ are ringing a little hollow. In their stead, demands for more concrete action along the lines advocated by BDS have come to the fore. Enter anti-globalisation activist Naomi Klein, who, in a widely republished article ‘Israel: Boycott, Divest, Sanction’, cited ‘economic sanctions’ as ‘the most effective tool in the non-violent arsenal’. She continued: ‘The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa.’ (1)

For the long-distance activist, Klein’s appeal to the Anti-Apartheid Movement is resonant. The invocation of the similarly well-intentioned Anti-Apartheid Movement revives memories of what can be achieved through sporting exclusions and trade embargos. For without the boycotts, and, more importantly, without the economic sanctions of the latter half of the 1980s, racial segregation, as Klein implies, would surely still be in force in South Africa.

Or it would be, at least, in the narcissistic fantasy world of the contemporary anti-war protester. However, it is not all about them - not now, and certainly not then. Reports of the role of economic sanctions in the demise of apartheid continue to be greatly exaggerated. If anything, the collapse of the apartheid system was brought about, not by moral indignation from without South Africa, but by the mass, disenfranchised working classes within.

From the mass movements of civil disobedience in the 1950s, such as the African National Congress, or later, the Pan African Congress, to the Durban strikes of 1973, in which action spread out from brick workers to the Natal textiles industry, political consciousness was growing consistently in South Africa. Collective action had kindled a confidence and purpose that not even state repression, brutally apparent in the Soweto uprisings of 1976, could contain. Couple that with the success of liberation movements in Angola and Mozambique and the threat to the embattled apartheid regime was all too clear.

By the mid-1980s, class struggle had spread in South Africa from urban areas to the townships. And it had done so in the context of a deep recession. That capital was taking flight from South Africa before the widespread imposition of economic sanctions was hardly surprising, given the volatility, not to mention the increasing unprofitability, of a system of rationalising and brutalising a cheap labour force on racial grounds. Once lucrative, apartheid was becoming a liability. As Professor Richard Hall wrote in 1985, ‘The embarrassment of staying in South Africa, on moral grounds, is being compounded by reduced future profitability’ (2). Or, in the words of an economist over 10 years later, ‘South Africa’s most debilitating economic problems largely predated the imposition of economic sanctions’ (3). Indeed, with rocketing levels of inflation (up to 25 per cent by 1984), low levels of productivity, and a resilient, riotous working class, South Africa was not looking like the shiny investment vehicle it had appeared to be during the years of postwar boom. Sanctions and boycotts, while clearly possessing a feelgood factor for their protagonists, did not ‘put an end to apartheid’; they merely embellished its self-destruction.
That apartheid fell when it did, in 1990-91, did owe something to the international situation, but that something was not sanctions - it was the collapse of the Soviet Union. Having provided financial and military support for the ANC’s insurgency efforts, the USSR’s disintegration left President de Klerk and his Pretoria government facing a far less threatening political movement. It was a fortuitous moment, enabling South Africa’s white rulers to manage the transformation by splitting the militants and dealing with the milder reformism of the then recently released Nelson Mandela.

The nostalgic recollection of anti-apartheid sanctions and boycotts is not just a delusion. It serves a purpose. By associating the action of foreign states, not to mention consumers, with the end of racial oppression in South Africa, the fantasies of the anti-apartheid activists place potential action against Israel in a specious tradition of state-sponsored anti-imperialism. In this sense, economic sanctions, far from being an arbitrary exercise of Western power, are instead legitimised as the exercise of a moral imperative. Unsurprisingly, perhaps, given their desperate search for the good fight, many British politicians have been growing extremely enthusiastic about the possibility of sanctions against Israel. Former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell argues that if any other country had behaved as Israel had, economic sanctions would have already been imposed; and former foreign office minister Chris Mullin has urged the British government to start talking to the European Union about sanctions (4).
While it’s understandable that elected representatives of the British state might enjoy the role of international adjudicators, why would a left-wing activist like Naomi Klein seek to encourage it? Indeed, why, when British and American states are seen as the principal enemies in the eyes of those opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, would the same people seek the support of these states in opposition to Israel? For Klein the answer is unashamed pragmatism: ‘In , a country so small and trade-dependent, it could actually work’, she says (5). In other words, a sanction-backed boycott against Israel is a fight that we can win. This is not a principled defence of Palestinian self-determination, let alone an assertion of anti-imperialism; it’s a search for the most viable arena for personal vainglory.

And this is the real aspect that today’s anti-Israel lobby shares with the Anti-Apartheid Movement. They are both born of narcissism, an inability, as the social theorist Christopher Lasch defined it, to distinguish the self from the external world. Instead, the world appears as little more than a mirror of the self. Be it a conflict in the Middle East, or an anti-colonial struggle in Africa, both are experienced in terms of the self, and its frustrated desire for meaning and purpose. Little wonder that the ultimate horizon of such narcissistic solidarity with spectacles of suffering is the boycott, as if the act of individual consumption contained within it the potential for world revolution. Do we really want to turn Palestinians into the pet victims of Western liberals, in the same way that the Anti-Apartheid Movement did with black South Africans 20 years ago?

Tim Black is senior writer at [I]spiked.
Wednesday 14 January 2009 http://www.spiked-online.com/images/pixel.gif

(1) Israel: Boycott, Divest, Sanction (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090126/klein?rel=hp_currently), Nation, 7 January 2009
(2) Financial Mail, 14 July 1985
(3) Why South Africa’s Apartheid economy failed, Contemporary Economic Policy, Volume XV, July 1997
(4) Cross-party fury of MPS at Israel, Scotsman, 13 January 2009
(5) Israel: Boycott, Divest, Sanction (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090126/klein?rel=hp_currently), Nation, 7 January 2009
http://www.spiked-online.com/images/pixel.gif http://www.spiked-online.com/images/pixel.gif

[Mediocrates]

Creating their own private Gazas
The fancy-dress protest in London was fuelled by narcissism rather than real solidarity with the Palestinians.
Nathalie Rothschild

As I made my way through the throngs of people protesting against Israel’s war in Gaza in London’s Hyde Park on Saturday, a passionate reprimand bellowed out of the loud speakers: ‘Israel – shame on you!’ The crowd joined in, shouting repeatedly: ‘Shame on you! Shame on you!’

With estimates ranging between 20,000 attendees according to the police and 100,000 according to the protest organisers, Hyde Park was transformed into a sea of placards, banners, Palestinian flags and scarves. Some speakers called for support for Hamas, others – including Tony Blair’s sister-in-law Lauren Booth – attacked international politicians’ feebleness in negotiating a ceasefire. Later, during the march from Hyde Park to the Israeli Embassy in West London, protesters shouted chants like ‘Free, free Palestine’, La ilaha illallah (meaning, in Arabic, ‘there is no God but God’) and ‘end the siege in Gaza’.

This protester enacted a classic anti-Semitic lie. ©spiked
The overall feeling at the demo was one of anger and frustration over the war and the lack of intervention from the international community. From veteran demo-goers to young children and pensioners, who do not usually take to the streets, attendees came in droves to condemn Israel and to show their solidarity with those besieged, wounded and dead Palestinians we have all seen in the news over the past couple of weeks.

One woman told the BBC: ‘I haven’t been on a march for a very long time. About 25 years ago I was outside the Israeli embassy so nothing seems to have changed.’ Another young woman, wearing a keffiyeh as a headscarf, said that even if the London march won’t change the situation in Gaza, at least it will ‘make people aware of what’s going on’ (1). Organised by the Stop the War Coalition, the British Muslim Initiative and the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, the demonstration ended with some scuffles, flag-burning, ketchup-squirting, Starbucks-thrashing and (emulating the Iraqi journalist who hurled his shoe at George W Bush) footwear-throwing by the Israeli Embassy.

It became clear at Saturday’s demo that Israel has for many become a vessel in which to depose pent-up anger. From the evils of Big Business to discrimination against Muslims, from disappointment with British political leaders to disgust with Western nations for failing the ideals of humanitarian intervention, the protest involved eclectic complaints. Israel is seen as the big bully that embodies and sustains all these malices. And while Israel-bashing has become a worthy cause for many, upholding Palestinians as ultimate victims is seen as equally honourable – even as a moral duty. Many pro-Palestine demonstrators around the world have been carrying fake blood-stained dolls; the image of the agonised and wounded Palestinian child has come to represent the situation in Gaza. The accompanying message is that the Palestinans - children and adults - need carers: enter ‘the international community’, which apparently has an obligation to shame the bully and correct its behaviour on behalf of the bullied.

With the temperature in London seemingly dropping by the minute, light snow dwindling over the determined marchers, the passion only seemed to rise. Breaking off from the main march, a group of a hundred-or-so mostly teenage, Muslim boys had to be contained by the police. Their dress and demeanour were like those of the young Palestinian men we have so often seen on the news confronting Israeli soldiers; their faces were covered by keffiyehs, they pumped their fists in the air and later on hurled stones and other spontaneous weapons at the police. It seems many on this protest felt the need to look like the Gazans they were expressing solidarity with. Some variation on Arabic scarves, and other accoutrements in the black, white, red and green colours of the Palestinian flag, were worn by most. This, along with the samba bands accompanying the marchers, made the event look like a fancy-dress carnival. But whereas for most people these ‘ethnic’ accessories were worn as symbols through which their solidarity could be more colourfully and graphically expressed, some of the carnivalesque elements at the protest were simply obscene.

A group of performers wearing skeleton-costumes, wigs with yellow tentacles, and bullet chains around their necks walked around Hyde Park performing a ritualistic dance with a fake decapitated arm in front of a blood-splattered Israeli flag, a red skull covering the star of David. The dancers, representing the Israelis, acted as bloodthirsty vultures.
One protester wearing a big-nosed mask and biting into two red-stained dolls with black-eyes, told me: ‘I am Israel, I like to eat children.’ This man, who wanted to remain anonymous, and the skeleton-dancers were enacting a classic lie - that Jews are infanticidal bloodsuckers. The onlookers did not seem to mind – while some appeared bemused, others cheered and clapped this anti-Semitic spectacle.

In Hyde Park, rapper Lowkey’s three-minute rant on the insidious evils of Israel received rapturous applause. He attacked companies with ‘Zionist’ links - including Marks & Spencer, Starbucks, Coca Cola and Huggies Nappies – and told the audience: ‘You say you know about the Zionist lobby, but you put money in their pockets every time you’re buying their coffee.’ Apparently aware that such intonations might provoke complaints of conspiratorial prejudice, he added: ‘Nothing is more anti-Semitic than Zionism / so please don’t bring bad vibes when you speak to me / I know plenty of rabbis that agree with me.’

The main message at the protest was the urgent need for the West to intervene to stop the violence in Gaza. Anti-Semitic outbursts were rare, but where they occurred they represented the most degraded form of the anger which the London protest served to alleviate.

The demonstration attracted people of all ages, backgrounds and persuasions. So what motivates these disparate individuals and organisations - from anti-capitalists and trade unionists to young British Asians, British Jews and middle-aged women – to want to express their anger towards Israel? How come this particular conflict evokes so much attention, anger and emotion?

The answer cannot be found in the Middle East, but rather at home. This conflict has taken on an altogether symbolic meaning for many Westerners, which is quite separate from the facts on the ground. For many, Israel has come to represent all that is rotten in the West; their disdain for American foreign policy, the consumer society and modernity is projected on to this ‘shitty little country’, as a French ambassador once referred to it. As for the young Muslims present at the march, their anger, too, seemed to spring from homemade trends. One blogger speculates that what ‘incites’ young Muslim and Arab pro-Palestinians who have been trying to shut down the Israeli embassy for the past couple of weeks is ‘the treatment of our/their Palestinian people in Gaza by Israel’ (2). But how have these young people, born and raised in Britain, come to view the Palestinians as ‘their people’? Their adoption of the Palestinian cause looks more like a vestige of diversity politics. Having grown up in a society which encourages difference and cultural particularity, these young Brits – mostly, to judge from the protest, of Asian background – are now inclined to identify with ‘their Gazans’ because of some spurious cultural affinity.
There can hardly be a more narcissistic form of protest than this projection of the self on to a foreign conflict. Real solidarity involves learning about, and appreciating, another people’s history, hopes and desires, and supporting their pursuit of freedom. When the desire to express solidarity is motivated by a sense of disenchantment, cultural confusion and emotionalism – as was largely the case for many of those at the London protest – then it becomes little more than an outlet for personal frustration.

For the confusing mishmash of individuals gathering under the banner of putting an end to Gazans’ suffering, dressing, acting and talking like Palestinians has apparently become fashionable. But their keffiyeh-wearing and Arabic-chanting antics amount to little more than a new form of ‘blacking up’.

Israel’s violent war should be condemned, but it is doubtful whether the protest, as that young woman interviewed by the BBC hoped, ‘raised awareness’ about what is going on in the Middle East. Because it seems many Westerners on these marches are creating their own private Gazas – a place in which their disillusions are played out in the most nightmarish form possible.

Nathalie Rothschild is commissioning editor of spiked.

(1) Residents want Gaza protest moved (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7822845.stm), BBC News, 11 January 2009
(2) Internationalist unity with Palestine: new generation, new methods, new militancy (http://sonsofmalcolm.blogspot.com/2009/01/london-militant-pro-palestinian-youth.html), Sons of Malcolm blog, 12 January 2009

reprinted from: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6105/

[Mediocrates]

Israel, Starbucks and the new irrationalism
In that coffee shop gutted by Gaza protesters, on the basis of rumour and prejudice, we can glimpse the emergence of cultural anti-Semitism.
Brendan O’Neill

For me, the most striking image from Saturday’s big London demo against Israel’s invasion of the Gaza Strip was the gutted Starbucks coffee shop. On Kensington High Street, opposite the Israeli Embassy, hardcore anti-Israel protesters clashed with police on the evening of 10 January. The violence escalated and some protesters turned their anger towards Starbucks. Other shops were slightly damaged, but the Starbucks was completely destroyed: metal railings were thrown through its windows; fittings were ripped out; coffee machines were smashed to pieces. A special fury was visited upon this little shop.

Why? Because Starbucks funds Israel’s war in Gaza. This Jewish-owned company (CEO: Howard Schultz) is ‘funding Israel’, said protesters; it is donating ‘all of its profits’ from the past two weeks ‘directly to the Israeli army’ (1). One protester against Israel says everyone should avoid Starbucks unless they ‘want to be involved in the slaughter of innocent people’. In the online discussion forum of the UK Muslim Public Affairs Committee, anti-Israel activists warn people to ‘avoid Starbucks like the plague’ (2). You certainly won’t be able to buy a frappuccino in Kensington any time soon, or in West Beirut, where a Starbucks was also forced to close by protesters angry that this corporation ‘donates money to the Israeli military’ (3).

There’s only one problem with these piques of rage over the global, Gazan-massacring coffee corporation: it isn’t true that Starbucks donates money to the Israeli army. It is a rumour, built on myth and misinformation, and even satire mistaken for fact, and spread through the ranks of the anti-Israel lobby by text message and email. The attack on Starbucks in London was not an expression of anti-imperialist rage but an act of undiluted irrationalism – and it revealed much about contemporary Israel-bashing.

For the past two weeks, internet discussion forums and mobile phone networks have been bombarded with the following message: ‘Starbucks and McDonald’s are donating their next two weeks of earned revenue to Israel. Please BOYCOTT them and forward this message to everyone you know.’ Other versions of the message say Starbucks and McDonald’s are ‘donating their next two weeks of earned revenue to the Israeli military’. A Facebook group set up in opposition to the war in Gaza includes other fast-food corporations in the story: ‘KFC, Pepsi, Coca Cola, Starbucks and McDonald’s are donating their next two weeks of earned revenue to Israel. Boycott them.’ (4)

This is nothing more than an anti-capitalist conspiracy theory, where we are expected to believe that the biggest manufacturers of fast food and fizzy drinks have clubbed together and decided to donate all of their profits for precisely a two-week period to a national army in the Middle East. If it were true, it would be a world first.

The rumour has stuck faster to Starbucks than it has to the other corporations. Some point out that the individuals who smashed up Starbucks on Kensington High Street were a ‘violent minority’, yet the anti-Starbucks sentiment was a central part of Saturday’s 50,000-strong demonstration. At the rally in Hyde Park earlier in the day, the rapper Lowkey, one of the invited speakers, was wildly cheered when he attacked companies – including Starbucks – that have ‘Zionist’ links: ‘You say you know about the Zionist lobby, but you put money in their pockets every time you’re buying their coffee.’ A combination of internet rumour, text messages that spread like wildfire, and condemnation of ‘Zionist coffee’ from a platform shared by Bianca Jagger, Annie Lennox and Lauren Booth (sister-in-law to Tony Blair) may have rattled and riled the protesters into believing that Starbucks is part of the Israeli war machine. No wonder they later smashed up one of its shops.

However, it is completely untrue that Starbucks funds the Israeli military. In response to the social-networking conspiracy-mongering, Starbucks released a statement saying that the ‘rumours that Starbucks Coffee Company… supports Israel are unequivocally false’ (5). If you don’t believe Starbucks spokespeople (after all, if they have no qualms about killing Gazan children, they’ll have no qualms about telling lies), then how about looking at the facts? According to an investigation by an Egyptian journalist for Business Today, ‘Each year Starbucks issues a massive tome outlining its donations to charities around the world, from children’s literacy and hurricane relief to the pitifully small sums it gives to the families that grow its coffees. It doesn’t mention the word “Israel” once – and nor do its filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.’ (6)

As to Starbucks’ alleged political lobbying on behalf of Israel, Business Today points out that Starbucks ‘does lobby’ but ‘not for the Jewish state’. Its political work is restricted to ‘zoning and regulatory issues’ – that is, where it can build its stores and how freely it can sell its coffee (7).
Many of the claims about ‘Zionist coffee’ and a link between Starbucks and the Israeli military spring from a letter allegedly written by CEO Howard Schultz. Dated 11 July 2006, and titled ‘A Thank You To All Starbucks Customers’, Schultz apparently said that ‘with every cup you drink at Starbucks you are helping with a noble cause’: ensuring the ‘continued viability and prospering of the Jewish State’. Schultz seems to say that the $5 billion donated by America to Israel every year is ‘no way near enough to pay for all the weaponry, bulldozers and security fences needed to protect innocent Israeli citizens from anti-Semitic Muslim terrorism.
Corporate sponsorships are essential [too]’. Schultz thanks Starbucks customers for helping him to raise ‘hundreds of millions of dollars each year’ to support the state of Israel (8). This seemingly Starbucks-damning letter has been on the internet for two-and-a-half years, and it now underpins much of the current anti-Starbucks, pro-Gaza protesting. It has appeared on anti-war websites; it has been cited as evidence by those spreading the ‘Boycott Starbucks’ SMS; Daily Egypt, an English-language paper in Cairo, says that ‘Egyptians and Arabs [have been] circulating emails’ containing the Schultz letter (9).

[Mediocrates]

However, the ‘Schultz letter’ is a hoax; worse than that, it’s a piece of satire that has been accepted by some people as fact. The letter was written, not by Schultz, but by Andrew Winkler, an Australian-based ‘anti-Zionist media activist’ of German origin. It was published as a parody of Schultz, and clearly advertised as a parody, on the anti-Zionist website ZioPedia on 11 July 2006. Winkler later wrote: ‘The Howard Schultz spoof letter has caused quite a bit of a stir… Howard Schultz never wrote that letter, I did.’ (10) Yet now it has become something like a modern, internet-shared version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion: a hoax document supposedly written by a Jew which is cited by some people as evidence of Zionist wickedness.

Like many conspiracy theories, the fantastic myth about Starbucks backing the Israeli military has spurted forth from a minuscule seed of fact.
Schultz, an American Jew, is a ‘friend of Israel’, in the sense that he has cultural and family ties with the state and supports its right to exist and flourish. In 1998, he was awarded the Jerusalem Fund of Aish HaTorah’s ‘Friend of Zion’ award, which is given to politicians, writers and businesspeople who support close ties between America and Israel (11). In short, he’s an Israel supporter. This unspectacular fact has been massively distorted, and transformed into the myth that Starbucks itself supports Israel, funds Israel, funds the Israeli military, and provides the weaponry, bulldozers and security fences with which Israel oppresses Palestinians. Some claim that, given Schultz’s personal support for Israel, it doesn’t matter if the ‘Schultz letter’ is a satirical invention since ‘the essence of the letter is accurate’ (12). In other words, a lie can reveal a truth, and a hoax can be acted upon by protesters if they feel it contains some ‘essence of accuracy’ (a contradiction in terms, surely). This reveals a frighteningly Orwellian undertone to contemporary conspiracy-mongering.
That Starbucks has become the subject of a full-blown conspiracy theory is clear from the fact that, previously, the coffee company has been accused by others of being pro-Arab. When in 2003 Starbucks ended its operations in Israel and closed its six coffee shops there (so much for being an insanely pro-Israel company), an internet rumour claimed that it had sided with ‘radical Arab countries who are working to destroy America’. Yet as one legend-busting writer in America discovered, ‘Starbucks didn’t remove itself from Israel because it was pro-Arab or anti-Israeli; it did so because this was the business decision that appeared to make the best sense’ (13). That Starbucks can be accused of being both rabidly pro-Israeli military and madly pro-radical Arab demonstrates the extent to which it has become the object of a free-floating paranoia, of conspiracy theories in search of some sliver of evidence.

The destruction of Starbucks in Kensington had nothing to do with a principled anti-war stance; it was the violent culmination of a campaign of mythmaking, distortion and conspiracism. It was a purely irrational act, executed by the gullible and the prejudiced, and fuelled by respectable speakers condemning ‘Zionist’ coffee. This is not any kind of anti-imperialism I want to be associated with; we might call it the anti-imperialism of fools.

It was revealing, though. It showed the extent to which the anti-Israel movement in relation to Gaza is disconnected from any real facts, and from the truth of the conflict itself. This eclectic anti-war grouping, consisting of teenage Pakistanis, 1990s anti-capitalists, anti-Zionists and the middle-aged rump of the radical left, is not a united force taking a clear, principled stand in favour of Palestinian self-determination; instead, the Israel/Palestine conflict has been rather arbitrarily adopted for the purpose of expressing a mixed bag of angst and a general, already-existing feeling of disillusionment with contemporary society. How else can we explain the 14- and 15-year-old Pakistani boys – born in Britain in the 1990s, and possessed of no personal or cultural connection to Palestine or historic knowledge of the conflict – screaming ‘Shame on Israel!’ at the top of their voices and throwing shoes and tomato ketchup at the Israeli Embassy? Or the middle-aged white women I saw joining in the energetic chants of ‘Allahu Akbar’ in Hyde Park? For many, attacking Israel has become a way of letting off steam, communicating their dislike for politicians, distrust of the media, hatred for America or simply their sense of alienation (14).
The Starbucks story also shows how susceptible the anti-Israel movement is to myth and misinformation. Because it is not grounded in any clear anti-imperialist ideas, or shared vision or argument on Israel/Palestine, this grouping can be easily invaded and energised by all sorts of myths, horror stories and hoaxes. Lacking a political anchor, it can be swayed by waves of conspiracy and speculation.

Finally, the destroyed Starbucks store provided a glimpse into the most worrying element of the anti-Israel surge, something which we will explore in more detail on spiked next week: the rise of a new form of anti-Semitism. When Israel is being widely attacked outside of any political context of anti-imperialism, and disconnected from any political understanding of its historic and its new relations with the West, there is a danger that it will come to be seen simply as wicked, as evil, as, at root, a collection of Zionists and Jews doing terrible things to other people. In the return of rumour-mongering, conspiracy theories, store-destroying, widespread demands to ‘boycott Israeli shops’ (most of which are actually Jewish-owned, not Israeli-owned) and in the depictions of Jews as uniquely bloodthirsty, we can see the return of some old prejudices in a new form. What we seem to be witnessing today is the rise, not of old-fashioned racist anti-Semitism, but of cultural anti-Semitism – the projection of disillusionment with Western culture and values on to Israel, also known, in our politically illiterate times, as ‘the Jews’.

Brendan O’Neill is editor of spiked. Visit his website here (http://www.brendanoneill.co.uk/). His satire on the green movement - Can I Recycle My Granny and 39 Other Eco-Dilemmas - is published by Hodder & Stoughton. (Buy this book from Amazon(UK) (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340955651/spiked).)

(1) See YouTube video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sek9UCWczl8)
(2) See the MPACUK discussion forum (http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=39859goto=newpost)
(3) Protesters close Beirut Starbucks branch (http://www.enquirerherald.com/366/story/492438.html), Associated Press, 13 January 2009
(4) United Jews, Moslims, Christians & Buddhists against Israelian terrorism (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=114098920703), Facebook
(5) Starbucks denies Israel support (http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Wednesday/National/2452519/Article/index_html), New Straits Times, 14 January 2009
(6) A thank you to all Starbucks customers (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), Snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(7) A thank you to all Starbucks customers (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), Snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(8) A thank you to all Starbucks customers (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), Snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(9) Boycotting campaign to resurface with Starbucks opening (http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=4872), Daily Egypt, 9 January 2009
(10) A thank you to all Starbucks customers (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), Snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(11) A thank you to all Starbucks customers (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), Snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(12) They say it was for business reasons only (http://www.jewishlegends.com/displayExp.php?rumor=136), Jewish Legends, February 2007
(13) Starbucks in Israel (http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/schultz.asp), snopes.com, 10 August 2006
(14) See The antithesis of anti-imperialism (http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6078/), by Brendan O’Neill
reprinted from: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6103/

[Brody15]

My understanding is that anti-Zionism is the fashionable politically correct way of being anti-semetic. These people usually say "I'm not anti-semetic because I don't hate the Jews." That's usually just before they launch into the anti Israel rant.

I've always viewed the two as the same thing, but then again I'm not a sophisticated Liberal.

It is the same thing. I don't think you can be a Jew without being a Zionist. It's one of the cornerstones of our religion. So if someone hates a Zionist, they hate the Jew. That's how I see it.

[KiwiWriter]

This story from way way down here at the bottom of the South Pacific;



By EVAN HARDING and DYLAN THORNE - The Southland Times | Saturday, 17 January 2009

Protesters target cafe in Gaza row
Protesters took to the streets of Invercargill yesterday, targeting a city cafe that is refusing to serve Israeli nationals.

About 15 placard-waving protesters stood opposite the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St at lunchtime chanting "Kiwis don't discriminate, Kiwis don't give in to hate".

The words were aimed at cafe owners Mustafa and Joanne Tekinkaya, who ordered Israeli sisters Natalie Bennie and Tamara Shefa out of their cafe on Wednesday because of their nationality.

The Tekinkayas said they would not serve any Israelis in their cafe until Israel stopped killing innocent women and children on the Gaza Strip.

The protesters said they were taking the peaceful protest action against the cafe owners because they had subjected the Israeli sisters to hate and discrimination, which was unfair, heavy-handed and unacceptable in New Zealand.

Five hours after the protest action took place, Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully said he was disappointed to read what had happened to the two Israeli women.

Responding to calls by the Israeli ambassador for the Government to take action, Mr McCully told The Southland Times people had very strong views on the situation in the Middle East. "But it's to be hoped that this sort of thing isn't to be imported into New Zealand."

He would not answer further questions on the issue.

One of the Esk St protesters, Anna Chilton, who is of Jewish descent, said the cafe owners had been heavy-handed towards the women.

"It is inappropriate and embarrassing for Invercargill and New Zealand. It's a nationwide racist embarrassment," she said.

Emily Beale, of Invercargill, said the cafe owners had brought the war to Invercargill.

"We are against the war as well but don't bring it here, don't discriminate."

Standing outside the cafe, on the other side of the road from the protesters, Carl and Racheal Goldsmith and son Dante O'Kane were staging a protest of their own against Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Mrs Goldsmith, who said they were anti-war but not anti-Israel, said she had always wanted to protest against the conflict in Gaza but had needed a catalyst.

She did not necessarily support the stance taken by the cafe owners in refusing to serve Israelis but said she supported their point.

"I think it's a much wider issue (than discrimination)."

She knew what it was like to lose a child, she said.

"It doesn't matter what country it's in, it's still tragic."

Several people being served at the Mevlana Cafe said the cafe owner was standing up for what he believed in.

Robert Guyton, of Riverton, said Mr Tekinkaya felt passionately about the death of innocent women and children and "who could blame him?"

He added he empathised with the two Israeli women ordered out of the cafe.

Cafe owner Mustafa Tekinkaya, a Turkish Muslim, has said throughout this week his actions had nothing to do with racism.

He declined to comment on the protest action taken against him, but pointed to a sign on his shop window, which said "Stop the War".

"That's what it's all about," Mr Tekinkaya said.

Turkish Kebabs, also in Esk St, said on Wednesday it, too, would not serve Israelis until the war stopped.

However, A La Turka, the Turkish Kebab House in Dee St, had a sign on its window yesterday saying everyone was welcome.

[Madeline]

This story from way way down here at the bottom of the South Pacific;



By EVAN HARDING and DYLAN THORNE - The Southland Times | Saturday, 17 January 2009

Protesters target cafe in Gaza row
Protesters took to the streets of Invercargill yesterday, targeting a city cafe that is refusing to serve Israeli nationals.

About 15 placard-waving protesters stood opposite the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St at lunchtime chanting "Kiwis don't discriminate, Kiwis don't give in to hate".

The words were aimed at cafe owners Mustafa and Joanne Tekinkaya, who ordered Israeli sisters Natalie Bennie and Tamara Shefa out of their cafe on Wednesday because of their nationality.

The Tekinkayas said they would not serve any Israelis in their cafe until Israel stopped killing innocent women and children on the Gaza Strip.

The protesters said they were taking the peaceful protest action against the cafe owners because they had subjected the Israeli sisters to hate and discrimination, which was unfair, heavy-handed and unacceptable in New Zealand.

Five hours after the protest action took place, Foreign Affairs Minister Murray McCully said he was disappointed to read what had happened to the two Israeli women.

Responding to calls by the Israeli ambassador for the Government to take action, Mr McCully told The Southland Times people had very strong views on the situation in the Middle East. "But it's to be hoped that this sort of thing isn't to be imported into New Zealand."

He would not answer further questions on the issue.

One of the Esk St protesters, Anna Chilton, who is of Jewish descent, said the cafe owners had been heavy-handed towards the women.

"It is inappropriate and embarrassing for Invercargill and New Zealand. It's a nationwide racist embarrassment," she said.

Emily Beale, of Invercargill, said the cafe owners had brought the war to Invercargill.

"We are against the war as well but don't bring it here, don't discriminate."

Standing outside the cafe, on the other side of the road from the protesters, Carl and Racheal Goldsmith and son Dante O'Kane were staging a protest of their own against Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip.

Mrs Goldsmith, who said they were anti-war but not anti-Israel, said she had always wanted to protest against the conflict in Gaza but had needed a catalyst.

She did not necessarily support the stance taken by the cafe owners in refusing to serve Israelis but said she supported their point.

"I think it's a much wider issue (than discrimination)."

She knew what it was like to lose a child, she said.

"It doesn't matter what country it's in, it's still tragic."

Several people being served at the Mevlana Cafe said the cafe owner was standing up for what he believed in.

Robert Guyton, of Riverton, said Mr Tekinkaya felt passionately about the death of innocent women and children and "who could blame him?"

He added he empathised with the two Israeli women ordered out of the cafe.

Cafe owner Mustafa Tekinkaya, a Turkish Muslim, has said throughout this week his actions had nothing to do with racism.

He declined to comment on the protest action taken against him, but pointed to a sign on his shop window, which said "Stop the War".

"That's what it's all about," Mr Tekinkaya said.

Turkish Kebabs, also in Esk St, said on Wednesday it, too, would not serve Israelis until the war stopped.

However, A La Turka, the Turkish Kebab House in Dee St, had a sign on its window yesterday saying everyone was welcome.
It is nice to read something said against discrimination, racism, war...but make no mistake, you can't 'keep it away'. It is everywhere, in every house, in every soul, in every mind. Yes, it would be nice to keep a conflict, a war, confined to one area of the world, but that is not possible. We, as a free people, we needn't let take hatred over, but we should be free to take a stand, free to speak...the truth, no matter what.

[Tonto]

The Tekinkayas said they would not serve any Israelis in their cafe until Israel stopped killing innocent women and children on the Gaza Strip.



My question to this muz twit would be "Are you also going to refuse to slop hamas animals too?" I think that would be an excellent question to publically ask and publicly report on.

[KiwiWriter]

It is nice to read something said against discrimination, racism, war...but make no mistake, you can't 'keep it away'. It is everywhere, in every house, in every soul, in every mind. Yes, it would be nice to keep a conflict, a war, confined to one area of the world, but that is not possible. We, as a free people, we needn't let take hatred over, but we should be free to take a stand, free to speak...the truth, no matter what.


Part of our problem is we're so far away from the rest of the world that many think the world's problems aren't going to bother us. Our fortunately now former Prime Minister (Labour and Green Party coalition) has been cutting at our defense forces like some out of control Hollywood plastic surgeon. Her reasoning is of course due to our benign strategic environment.

[KiwiWriter]

My question to this muz twit would be "Are you also going to refuse to slop hamas animals too?" I think that would be an excellent question to publically ask and publicly report on.

The answer would of course be the usual tired old mantra about mean old israel bullying the poor oppressed palys.

[Madeline]

Part of our problem is we're so far away from the rest of the world that many think the world's problems aren't going to bother us. Our fortunately now former Prime Minister (Labour and Green Party coalition) has been cutting at our defense forces like some out of control Hollywood plastic surgeon. Her reasoning is of course due to our benign strategic environment.

America did cut defense forces right before 9/11 as well. No Country is immune, and one shall take into account the forces that are within. That is why I am asking again and again, how can you tell the good ones from the bad?

[Tonto]

That's the democrat party MO. Liberals promise ice cream to the masses to get elected and cut military an defense spending to try to appease that. All through our history it has been so, and young American men have paid the price for that stupidity, in blood, every time. Israel did that same thing after the "6 day war" . They thought they had them right by the nads so were a bit unprepared for the "Yom Kipper" war because they had what they call "victor's disease" and relied too heavily on tanks and heavy bombers, ignoring the value of artillery and conventional infantry. Boots on the ground is what gets the job done. Managed to pull it out though.....at a cost.
Clinton was a fine example of defense cost cuts that allowed 9/11 to happen. Clearly, it was Cinton's policy that cost us that one. The only worse pitiful example was Jimmy Carter, also a democrat, who will go down in history as the worst prez we EVER had.

[Y. Shulamith]

On another topic entirely, I could have dropped over when I heard Obama saying "..........IN OUR TIME!" Dang, I was afraid he'd be a Neville Chamberlain and here he was quoting, in part, Neville Chamberlain's "Peace IN OUR TIME", only he said something different, like "prosperity and this or that.....IN OUR TIME".

"I think we might be in for a bumpy night". I still hope that I am wrong about Obama, but I am getting a tad nervous.

[KiwiWriter]

That's the democrat party MO. Liberals promise ice cream to the masses to get elected and cut military an defense spending to try to appease that. All through our history it has been so, and young American men have paid the price for that stupidity, in blood, every time. Israel did that same thing after the "6 day war" . They thought they had them right by the nads so were a bit unprepared for the "Yom Kipper" war because they had what they call "victor's disease" and relied too heavily on tanks and heavy bombers, ignoring the value of artillery and conventional infantry. Boots on the ground is what gets the job done. Managed to pull it out though.....at a cost.
Clinton was a fine example of defense cost cuts that allowed 9/11 to happen. Clearly, it was Cinton's policy that cost us that one. The only worse pitiful example was Jimmy Carter, also a democrat, who will go down in history as the worst prez we EVER had.


If you want some real fun, just let the greens get some influence. I like the term watermellon party as that is exactly what they are; green on the outside while red in the middle.

[Tonto]

That description fits our Democrats (Obamalamadingdong included) to a perfect "T".

[KiwiWriter]

That description fits our Democrats (Obamalamadingdong included) to a perfect "T".

If that's the case you're in worse trouble than I thought. We've just gotten over nine very long years of their antics. Mind you it took an act of "We've been here for so long we can do anything we damn well like and who cares what the electorate thinks cause the morons will just vote us in again" type arrogance to covince the majority to give them the boot.

[codedvirus]

Gaza protesters raid arms factory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/sussex/7835082.stm

Seven men and two women have been arrested after a group of protesters attacked an arms factory in Sussex.

EDO MBM Technology in Moulsecoomb was broken into overnight by the Smash EDO group in response to the action by the Israeli military in Gaza.

Protesters say weapons components made at the site are used by Israeli aircraft on bombing missions.

Sussex Police said extensive damage was caused to the building, computer equipment and precision machinery.

Det Ch Insp Graham Pratt said: "Windows had been smashed and offices turned over in what I would describe as wanton vandalism, but with machinery and equipment so targeted that it could have been done with a view of bringing business to a standstill.

"The damage is significant and the value substantial."

Smash EDO said its activists had thrown computers and filing cabinets from the top floor and had staged a "citizen's decommissioning" of the arms factory "in direct response to the killings of Palestinians".

EDO designs, develops and manufactures weapon carriage and release systems and is an approved supplier to the Ministry of Defence and governments worldwide.

The company was unavailable for comment.

[Madeline]

Gaza protesters raid arms factory
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/sussex/7835082.stm

Seven men and two women have been arrested after a group of protesters attacked an arms factory in Sussex.

EDO MBM Technology in Moulsecoomb was broken into overnight by the Smash EDO group in response to the action by the Israeli military in Gaza.

Protesters say weapons components made at the site are used by Israeli aircraft on bombing missions.

Sussex Police said extensive damage was caused to the building, computer equipment and precision machinery.

Det Ch Insp Graham Pratt said: "Windows had been smashed and offices turned over in what I would describe as wanton vandalism, but with machinery and equipment so targeted that it could have been done with a view of bringing business to a standstill.

"The damage is significant and the value substantial."

Smash EDO said its activists had thrown computers and filing cabinets from the top floor and had staged a "citizen's decommissioning" of the arms factory "in direct response to the killings of Palestinians".

EDO designs, develops and manufactures weapon carriage and release systems and is an approved supplier to the Ministry of Defence and governments worldwide.

The company was unavailable for comment.

This would be funny if it weren't so sad. These peace loving people....just makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Y. Shulamith]

Looks like UK is going to hell in a handbasket......just where are the police during these these altercations? Are they afraid to deal with their unfriendly immigrant population? I'd love to know just what the hell is going on in the UK with respect to police, etc., and how the Muz/Abs are getting away with all their destruction?

I know here in the USA, the riot police would be on them so fast that their respective heads would get knocked off their shoulders.

[Madeline]

Looks like UK is going to hell in a handbasket......just where are the police during these these altercations? Are they afraid to deal with their unfriendly immigrant population? I'd love to know just what the hell is going on in the UK with respect to police, etc., and how the Muz/Abs are getting away with all their destruction?

I know here in the USA, the riot police would be on them so fast that their respective heads would get knocked off their shoulders.

Y, this may explain why the UK police force is absent. Watch it all the way through, please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE&eurl=&feature=player_embedded

[Y. Shulamith]

I watched the film in it's entirety. One issue, is gun control, the other issue is the laws regarding gun useage by citizens, another issue are perceived problems with lack of police protection.

I think that the citizens of the UK, if they are inclined to do so, must "vote out the bums" whom they feel have brought about the laws and issues that are causing these problems. UK does not, to my knowledge have a majority of ab/muzzies among their constituency; not yet, at least. While they have the chance, they must bring about change so that the government and police are no longer a train running off it's rails. The citizens have a long slog in front of them to bring about a return to the nation it once was before the ab/muzzies took over the streets and the citizens need to stop being apathetic and need to quit worrying about "political correctness".

[Mediocrates]

The UK has horrible security. A number of years ago 3 old ladies snuck on to a nuclear missile submarine and damaged it.

[Y. Shulamith]

I guess that maybe the police are busy now looking for terrorist plots perpetrated by the ab/muzzie influx that they welcomed to their shores. Talk about ingrates; maybe the UK should begin a stronger deportation program.

Who needs these bastards in the UK anyway?

[Madeline]

I watched the film in it's entirety. One issue, is gun control, the other issue is the laws regarding gun useage by citizens, another issue are perceived problems with lack of police protection.

I think that the citizens of the UK, if they are inclined to do so, must "vote out the bums" whom they feel have brought about the laws and issues that are causing these problems. UK does not, to my knowledge have a majority of ab/muzzies among their constituency; not yet, at least. While they have the chance, they must bring about change so that the government and police are no longer a train running off it's rails. The citizens have a long slog in front of them to bring about a return to the nation it once was before the ab/muzzies took over the streets and the citizens need to stop being apathetic and need to quit worrying about "political correctness".
Ooops.
Try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeJyHosS0bM

[Y. Shulamith]

Oh please......you Euros are out of your everloving minds...you need to deport these criminally insane peoples from whence they came ASAP.

You opened Pandora's box by letting them in and now you have to do something about this pox laying at your door.

Send them back from where they came, before it's too late!!!!

God Bless America!!!

[ItsMyJewty]

Yes, I started watching the other video and wondered what you meant... Interesting videos. Britain's got a real problem on. The UK should deport some of the more radical elements.

[Madeline]

Oh please......you Euros are out of your everloving minds...you need to deport these criminally insane peoples from whence they came ASAP.

You opened Pandora's box by letting them in and now you have to do something about this pox laying at your door.

Send them back from where they came, before it's too late!!!!

God Bless America!!!

Well said.

[Tonto]

I know here in the USA, the riot police would be on them so fast that their respective heads would get knocked off their shoulders.

You only HOPE they would, right? I did have a jewish friend jumped by 3 "import" muz while he was wearing his Air Force uniform just outside of Detroit. He put 2 in the hospital and was stabbed by the third but by then help arrived in the form of a couple friends. All 3 muz ended up gettting deported. That's a pretty rare case though. Usually, the poor oppressed muz are allowed to slide by the liberal puke judges we got in this country. It can only get worse with the super left being in charge of this country (USA) now......Pelosi and Reid are so far left they should be life members of the commie party.

[Y. Shulamith]

I know here in the USA, the riot police would be on them so fast that their respective heads would get knocked off their shoulders.

You only HOPE they would, right? I did have a jewish friend jumped by 3 "import" muz while he was wearing his Air Force uniform just outside of Detroit. He put 2 in the hospital and was stabbed by the third but by then help arrived in the form of a couple friends. All 3 muz ended up gettting deported. That's a pretty rare case though. Usually, the poor oppressed muz are allowed to slide by the liberal puke judges we got in this country. It can only get worse with the super left being in charge of this country (USA) now......Pelosi and Reid are so far left they should be life members of the commie party.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but here where I live, 5 muslim would be terrorists were convicted and put behind bars, probably for life.

*Google Ft. Dix 5*....and you will get all the salient details regarding what justice and a jury of their peers did to these 5 would-be murderers of soldiers in Ft. Dix, New Jersey!!

There are still lots of good, just people in the USA!!!

[Tonto]

You only HOPE they would, right? I did have a jewish friend jumped by 3 "import" muz while he was wearing his Air Force uniform just outside of Detroit. He put 2 in the hospital and was stabbed by the third but by then help arrived in the form of a couple friends. All 3 muz ended up gettting deported. That's a pretty rare case though. Usually, the poor oppressed muz are allowed to slide by the liberal puke judges we got in this country. It can only get worse with the super left being in charge of this country (USA) now......Pelosi and Reid are so far left they should be life members of the commie party.

Sorry, but here where I live, 5 muslim would be terrorists were convicted and put behind bars, probably for life.

*Google Ft. Dix 5*....and you will get all the salient details regarding what justice and a jury of their peers did to these 5 would-be murderers of soldiers in Ft. Dix, New Jersey!!

There are still lots of good, just people in the USA!!![/QUOTE]

I hear ya Dude, but those asshats had been "let off" for various and sundry charges for years. They had an aggregate list of 29 charges on their record right? Finally a judge with some nads sent their butts up river.

[ItsMyJewty]

Maybe the Islamo-Left alliance is all part of a growing "humanitarian" awareness in Europe and soon we'll be seeing other demonstrations, as we did during the Darfour conflict. The streets will be filled with people demonstrating against al-Qaida and, who knows, demanding that ex-Nazis be caught and tried, and that confiscated Jewish property be returned to the rightful owners. The arrival of the Messianic Obama can only accelerate this process.

[Y. Shulamith]

Sorry, but here where I live, 5 muslim would be terrorists were convicted and put behind bars, probably for life.

*Google Ft. Dix 5*....and you will get all the salient details regarding what justice and a jury of their peers did to these 5 would-be murderers of soldiers in Ft. Dix, New Jersey!!

There are still lots of good, just people in the USA!!!

I hear ya Dude, but those asshats had been "let off" for various and sundry charges for years. They had an aggregate list of 29 charges on their record right? Finally a judge with some nads sent their butts up river.[/QUOTE]

Justice, mercy and decency will prevail over the darkness of ignorance and hatred that these terrorists/jihadists/muzzies/islamofacists would bring to the world, if they got half a chance.....ya gotta believe!
:clap:

[Tonto]

I hope that you're right. I think it's prudent, however to go to the range often and stay in practice.....or the dojo, whatever your preference.

[Y. Shulamith]

Indeed, tread lightly and carry a big stick~~~ Theodore Roosevelt

[Manaia]

Part of our problem is we're so far away from the rest of the world that many think the world's problems aren't going to bother us. Our fortunately now former Prime Minister (Labour and Green Party coalition) has been cutting at our defense forces like some out of control Hollywood plastic surgeon. Her reasoning is of course due to our benign strategic environment.

Hey Kia Ora mate, just checking over your posts. Nice to see another pro-israeli kiwi about :) Yes I think we have a different slant on things due to our physical isolation. Sometimes that lends itself to a certain naivete. Sometimes keeps us innocent, sometimes lets people take too much.

Those store owners are despicable, I'm ashamed this is happening here. I do believe that it's their property and they can act like a bunch of bigoted scumbags if they want but they should expect the same bigotry back. It's not the sort behaviour we want here, we don't want their hatred. There's a recession on, I expect they'll receive the attitude they deserve and go out of business.

Yes there's a lot of unhappy campers in our military, especially the air force. Hopefully Indonesia doesn't attack soon, oops are we allowed to say that?

The Watermelon Party, lol.

[KiwiWriter]

Hey Kia Ora mate, just checking over your posts. Nice to see another pro-israeli kiwi about :) Yes I think we have a different slant on things due to our physical isolation. Sometimes that lends itself to a certain naivete. Sometimes keeps us innocent, sometimes lets people take too much.

Those store owners are despicable, I'm ashamed this is happening here. I do believe that it's their property and they can act like a bunch of bigoted scumbags if they want but they should expect the same bigotry back. It's not the sort behaviour we want here, we don't want their hatred. There's a recession on, I expect they'll receive the attitude they deserve and go out of business.

Yes there's a lot of unhappy campers in our military, especially the air force. Hopefully Indonesia doesn't attack soon, oops are we allowed to say that?

The Watermelon Party, lol.

Yeah, I was beginning to think I was the only one so it's good to see you here.

The ironic thing about the store owners is they would have been weeping to the press about not tarring everyone with the same brush if their windows had something put through them after Bali, and yet they're willing to do exactly that to (I think) one New Zealander and her sister who was visiting from another country.

[Manaia]

Yes, I'd say you'd probably be right. Some other ******* in Kaikoura has done the same damn it.

[Mediocrates]

The Thai military has towed hundreds of Burmese Muslim refugees out to sea in boats with no engines and with their hands bound. Up to 500 may have died, The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5544278.ece) reports.

The refugees are members of the Rohingya minority, who are Muslim, stateless and persecuted by the Burmese military junta. Many of the refugees have been rescued by Indian officials, but several hundred are still missing.

Survivors told Indian officials they were promised jobs in Thailand and Indonesia by agents in Bangladesh.
“Soon after they set sail they were captured by some men wearing what they described as Thai army and navy uniforms. After their capture they said they were taken to an island off the Thai coast and beaten up before being forced into boats and pushed into the high seas,” Mr Narayan said.
So we can confidently expect furious protests outside the Thai embassy, boycotts of Thai restaurants (hopefully no window smashing or violent attacks) and even at the Manchester City ground for the club’s former connection with the disgraced ex-Thai prime minister, Thakin Shinawatra.
Can’t we?

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/19/time-to-secure-thai-embassy-man-city-ground/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5544278.ece

[Aviva]

muslims doesnt hate and want to kill all jews just those living in israel i.e:zionist
i am sorry the war was over and i dedicate this song to our soldiers and all of you

Halawavic

Just about half of the world's Jewish population live in Israel. And of the other half living elsewhere in the world, the majority support Zionism (ie: the right of Jews to live in the holy land), preferably in peace with their neighbours and in peace with all non-Jews.

If you're Egyptian, then your country officially has peace with Israel anyway.

So, by your own logic, Muslims DO hate and want to kill most Jews.

[bararallu]

Rhetoric and logic are still developing it seems in the Egyptian Arab mind. Maybe another 10,000 years and we'll see an improvement.

[Brody15]

I'd just remember this, quoted from Dennis Prager, a man whose opinion I respect quite a bit, he says "the world doesn't hate us, the world's left does." I say this because I think there are still lots of good in the world, not the just the US.

[KiwiWriter]

Yes, I'd say you'd probably be right. Some other ******* in Kaikoura has done the same damn it.

I heard just a snippet about something like that on the wireless. Didn't the cops go and have a friendly chat about their attitude?

[sharke]

Sorry if this is off topic but this is my first post here and I cannot start a new thread. I just wanted to draw your attention to the Wikipedia page about Qassam rocket attacks. Currently, it implies that they are perfectly legal because they're part of the "resistance" against Israel.

I would change this nonsense myself but I really have no idea on the ins and outs of editing Wikipedia entries and providing citations, etc. Perhaps someone here might like to oblige, in which case I thank you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks

[bararallu]

Sorry if this is off topic but this is my first post here and I cannot start a new thread. I just wanted to draw your attention to the Wikipedia page about Qassam rocket attacks. Currently, it implies that they are perfectly legal because they're part of the "resistance" against Israel.

I would change this nonsense myself but I really have no idea on the ins and outs of editing Wikipedia entries and providing citations, etc. Perhaps someone here might like to oblige, in which case I thank you!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Qassam_rocket_attacks

Why not leave it. It discredits Wikipedia as a bulletproof reference guide. No pun intended. :cool: Any one referencing it will have the burden of proof in backing up the claims stated.

[Manaia]

I heard just a snippet about something like that on the wireless. Didn't the cops go and have a friendly chat about their attitude?

Don't know, I think the mayor apologised on behalf of the town. Hopefully these shop owners all mysteriously 'fall down the stairs'. Seems to only be immigrants taking these racist stances against Israelis so far. The idiot in Kaikoura is ex-American and the idiots in Invercargill are ex-Turkish. It's not our way, how do we attract these lame people? Can we swap them for better Turks & Americans?

[Manaia]

The Thai military has towed hundreds of Burmese Muslim refugees out to sea in boats with no engines and with their hands bound. Up to 500 may have died, The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5544278.ece) reports.

The refugees are members of the Rohingya minority, who are Muslim, stateless and persecuted by the Burmese military junta. Many of the refugees have been rescued by Indian officials, but several hundred are still missing.

Survivors told Indian officials they were promised jobs in Thailand and Indonesia by agents in Bangladesh.
“Soon after they set sail they were captured by some men wearing what they described as Thai army and navy uniforms. After their capture they said they were taken to an island off the Thai coast and beaten up before being forced into boats and pushed into the high seas,” Mr Narayan said.
So we can confidently expect furious protests outside the Thai embassy, boycotts of Thai restaurants (hopefully no window smashing or violent attacks) and even at the Manchester City ground for the club’s former connection with the disgraced ex-Thai prime minister, Thakin Shinawatra.
Can’t we?

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/19/time-to-secure-thai-embassy-man-city-ground/

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5544278.ece
Yeah I see what you're saying. Hypocritical alright. That is an absolutely shocking story and I have yet to see it anywhere in the news.
If a Jew smears butter on a bagel which may look like what Mohammed may have looked like, then IT'S AN OUTRAGE AGAINST MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE to some idiots no doubt.

[Madeline]

Yeah I see what you're saying. Hypocritical alright. That is an absolutely shocking story and I have yet to see it anywhere in the news.
If a Jew smears butter on a bagel which may look like what Mohammed may have looked like, then IT'S AN OUTRAGE AGAINST MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE to some idiots no doubt.
:clap: I like your style.

[KiwiWriter]

Don't know, I think the mayor apologised on behalf of the town. Hopefully these shop owners all mysteriously 'fall down the stairs'. Seems to only be immigrants taking these racist stances against Israelis so far. The idiot in Kaikoura is ex-American and the idiots in Invercargill are ex-Turkish. It's not our way, how do we attract these lame people? Can we swap them for better Turks & Americans?

That would be a much better idea than an emissions trading scheme. Would certainly do a lot more for the environment :D

[Manaia]

That would be a much better idea than an emissions trading scheme. Would certainly do a lot more for the environment :D

lol, indeed. A lame immigrant trading scheme. We'll swap you our lame, bigoted, ill-informed people for pro-israeli, freedom loving, hot people. Yes I demand hot!

[KiwiWriter]

lol, indeed. A lame immigrant trading scheme. We'll swap you our lame, bigoted, ill-informed people for pro-israeli, freedom loving, hot people. Yes I demand hot!


:lol: Hot for Keith Locke sounds like a fair trade. They can have Sue Bradford at no extra charge :D