Bin Laden calls for jihad over Israel offensive [Archive]

codedvirus

01-14-2009, 07:55 AM

Bin Laden calls for jihad over Israel offensive
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24914757-5005961,00.html

AL-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden called for jihad over the Israeli offensive in Gaza in a new audio tape that appeared on Islamist web sites today.

The tape was dated in the current Islamic month.

The White House said bin Laden's call for jihad demonstrated the al-Qaeda leader's isolation and was likely an effort to raise money.

"It appears this tape demonstrates his isolation and continued attempts to remain relevant at a time when al Qaeda's ideology, mission, and agenda are being questioned and challenged throughout the world," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"This also looks to be an effort to raise money as part of their ongoing propaganda campaign," he said.

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Bin Laden, on Tape, Urges Holy War Over Gaza
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/world/middleeast/15mideast.html?_r=1&hp

In his first public statement over the 19-day Gaza conflict, the leader of Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, on Wednesday publicly exhorted Muslims to wage holy war against Israel and criticized Israel’s Arab allies in an audiotape posted on Islamist Web sites.

The Qaeda statement came a day after Israel conceded that despite its relentless bombardment of Gaza, it had yet to cripple the military wing of Hamas or destroy the group’s ability to launch rockets. The concession suggested that despite heavy air and ground assaults Israel’s main goals in the conflict remain unfulfilled after more than two weeks of war.
........
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/world/middleeast/15mideast.html?_r=1&hp

bararallu

01-14-2009, 08:05 AM

Hmm I guess it's now makes 10 "human rights organization (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055471.html)s" that are united in their stand against Israel. :D Isn't Jihad a human right?

serdar

01-14-2009, 08:06 AM

oh! audio tape again! (:
something weird here

ItsMyJewty

01-14-2009, 08:11 AM

Boringly predictable. I wondered when the smelly looking genocidal muppet was going to make a reappearance.

andak01

01-14-2009, 09:04 AM

Hmm I guess it's now makes 10 "human rights organization (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055471.html)s" that are united in their stand against Israel. :D Isn't Jihad a human right?

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

ItsMyJewty

01-14-2009, 09:20 AM

if you don't like it here, don't come here

Mil

01-14-2009, 09:33 AM

andak01

01-14-2009, 09:43 AM

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

Exactly - stormfront is definitely are your friends. Did you mosque make the contact yet?

Nah! I've got no use for anti-semitism. But I will give back what I receive. Anyone that can read the Book of Numbers and read about the hero David and then turn around and say how violent the Quran is has a hole in his head.

I just reviewed the teaching material for my kid's Sunday class. Miraculously it is absent all of the anti-semitic stuff that I'm told (by those on this forum) was supposed to be there. Not very surprising really.

CanDo

01-14-2009, 09:43 AM

... You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. ...

Nonsense! Jews would never waste useful cattle! ;)

CanDo

01-14-2009, 09:46 AM

... and then turn around and say how violent the Quran is has a hole in his head.

Hole in head? Like the millions of victims of Muslim perpetrated genocide and terrorism, Muslims, foaming at the mouth and screaming "Allahu Akbar", while they slaughter women and children.

The Quran is drenched with the blood of innocents.

andak01

01-14-2009, 09:54 AM

Hole in head? Like the millions of victims of Muslim perpetrated genocide and terrorism, Muslims, foaming at the mouth and screaming "Allahu Akbar", while they slaughter women and children.

The Quran is drenched with the blood of innocents.

Well let's go back over the past couple of weeks. Civilian victims of Hamas 3. Civilians killed in Gaza ~300. Or go back to 2001, civilian victims of Qassam missiles from 2001 to today ~30. Hamas is evil for killing 30, but Israel is preposterously inept at preventing collateral damage.

bararallu

01-14-2009, 09:56 AM

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

The State of Israel is not Judea or Israel of 2 or 3 thousand years back. Our state policies are 100% external to the Torah, even if some ethical aspects of treating citizens are parallel. I generally fail to see the comparison of Imams and Clerics funded by the neighboring state (not to mention actual policy stated and driven by said State elites) all over the ME making calls for whats is actually Genocide and annihilation of our country as a sovereign state and what goes on in Israel by Israeli Jews driving policy and making statements as elected representatives of the people.

Point that out to us where Biblical policy has been put into place at any point of the modern state.

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:04 AM

Nonsense! Jews would never waste useful cattle! ;)

1 Samuel 22:18-19 The king then ordered Doeg, "You turn and strike down the priests." So Doeg the Edomite turned and struck them down. That day he killed eighty-five men who wore the linen ephod. 19 He also put to the sword Nob, the town of the priests, with its men and women, its children and infants, and its cattle, donkeys and sheep.

Joshua 11:6 (http://bible.cc/joshua/11-6.htm) Yahweh said to Joshua, "Don't be afraid because of them; for tomorrow at this time, I will deliver them up all slain before Israel. You shall hamstring their horses and burn their chariots with fire."

2 Samuel 8:4 And David took from him a thousand chariots, and seven hundred horsemen, and twenty thousand footmen: and David houghed all the chariot horses, but reserved of them for an hundred chariots.

varian

01-14-2009, 10:05 AM

This is the main trouble with Muslim scholars, Muhammad and the Qur'an. The Torah/Tanach shows both the strengths and the flaws of the Jewish culture and individuals within that culture. Anyone can see this and develop a tirade against their culture and their people. All religious writings offer praise and honor to their god or gods, therfore any honor or praises in the Qur'an are basically an expected formality. What the Qur'an does focus on due to Muhammad's lack of understanding is a continual consistant tirade against all other religions, and the main religion that sticks in Muhammad's craw is Judaism.

The Qur'an has stimulated the racism and hatred of the Jews for centuries. Muhammad claims that Gabriel was his messenger, and that the Qur'an was " a single revelation which descended upon Muhammad, either instantly or over a brief period, ..." Now after starting to read the Qur'an, it doesn't take one long to discover the fallacy of that fable. Whoever that Gabriel was, it is blatantly obvious that he/she was not sent by HaShem. So now you are going to throw the book of Numbers up to the Jews on this forum, while constantly denying the faults of Muhammad. How typical!!! What the Israelis may have done thousands of years ago somehow in the perverted Muslim mind, justifies Islamic hate and murder against Israel/Jews today. The Qur'an allows for this interpretation by numerous Muslims in the world today, and since you throw the history presented in the Torah up to the Jews on this forum, you show that you are definitely studying under scholars that don't really hold a very different opinion from the most radical schools of Islamic thought in the world. It's really only a matter of degrees. You show the same errors of thought and presentation that your prophet did, and he shows a gross ignorance of the spiritual messages presented in the Torah/Tanach. Peaceful or radical, your arguments show the same trappings of Muhammad's faulty reasoning. I don't really see that big a difference.

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:09 AM

The Torah/Tanach shows both the strengths and the flaws of the Jewish culture and individuals within that culture.

So I've heard. Is that why you put the symbol of a man who paid his dowry by desecrating 200 Philistine bodies on the flag of Israel? Or name a hotel after him, or wear his symbol around your neck?

Take it from me, I know about cultures based on violence. I was born into one, that one for which I am never asked to make ammends around here. My ancestors enslaved one continent and genocided another under the banner of the cross. I never once heard someone here say: "You've got blood on your hands." for that. Nor was I ever told that about the dimmi-like Jim Crow laws that were in place in my youth. Nor does the more recent and more deadly (than Mumbai) attack of the Lord's Resistance Army register. Nor their other attack where they chopped almost 50 parishioners to pieces in front of a church. And the reason that none of that, nor the mass murders of women and police on the border of Mexico, nor any other type of violence is of interest is, it isn't aimed at Jews. So the six Jews killed at Nariman house are far more important than the 46 Christians chopped to pieces by the LRA or the 400 women tortured and set on fire in Mexico. And it becomes clear that this isn't a crusade against violence at all. In the end, Jews are as self interested and hypocritical as the next person, not more, not less. Certainly Arabs and Muslims have their share of this hypocrisy.

codedvirus

01-14-2009, 10:12 AM

Well let's go back over the past couple of weeks. Civilian victims of Hamas 3. Civilians killed in Gaza ~300. Or go back to 2001, civilian victims of Qassam missiles from 2001 to today ~30. Hamas is evil for killing 30, but Israel is preposterously inept at preventing collateral damage.

1,176 Israelis have been killed and 8,341 wounded in terror attacks since 2000 to 2007. And this doesn't even include the Palestinians killed by Hamas, mainly when cleansing their Fatah rivals from the strip.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc .htm

CanDo

01-14-2009, 10:14 AM

Well let's go back over the past couple of weeks. Civilian victims of Hamas 3. Civilians killed in Gaza ~300.

You freely accept the Hamas version of the number of Gaza civilian deaths. Once again you prove that you are an enabler of Islamic terrorism.

Or go back to 2001, civilian victims of Qassam missiles from 2001 to today ~30. Hamas is evil for killing 30, but Israel is preposterously inept at preventing collateral damage.

If the Palestinians don't want to be counter-attacked by Israel, DON'T FIRE ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL!

Is it too difficult to understand that if you put your hand into a fire, you might get burned!?

But...... in your Islamic Terrorist enabling mind, the Palestinians should be able to constantly target Jewish families, without being held accountable, and without having their own families put in danger. Way to go, enabler!

CanDo

01-14-2009, 10:19 AM

A bunch of scripture about killing cattle.

Good grief! My post to you was: Nonsense! Jews would never waste useful cattle! ;)

Obviously you were the ONLY one who did not notice the "wink" and did not realize that I was being sarcastic. :rolleyes:

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:43 AM

You freely accept the Hamas version of the number of Gaza civilian deaths.

Not at all. Hamas version is that about half of the casualties are civilian. That would be well over 500. My estimate of 300 is the lower of major news sources. What's more, it is about a week and a half old.

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:45 AM

If the Palestinians don't want to be counter-attacked by Israel, DON'T FIRE ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL!

Only a small fraction of Palestinians can control whether rockets are fired into Israel, but they all get brutally punished for it.

ItsMyJewty

01-14-2009, 10:45 AM

CanDo: Is it too difficult to understand that if you put your hand into a fire, you might get burned!?

If you've got a pea-sized brain, yes! ;):D The dense people in densley populated Gaza (formerly Land of the Philistines - how apt!) never learn, do they?

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:48 AM

...the Palestinians should be able to constantly target Jewish families, without being held accountable, and without having their own families put in danger. Way to go, enabler!

Hell no. Retaliating as Israel has done many times in the past is perfectly acceptable to me as I have stated again and again and again. Arresting and killing terrorists is also acceptable as is a certain degree of collateral damage. I think that when Israel steps into barbarism to fight barbarism it is worthy of the kind of criticism that it gets from its own journalists and its own human rights monitors. Just because the Vietnamese represented an evil regiem and communism doesn't make Mi Lai good. 10 wrongs don't make a right.

A terrorist enabler can be thought of as someone who works to make terrorism more popular. Excessive civilian casualties does just that.

codedvirus

01-14-2009, 10:51 AM

Not at all. Hamas version is that about half of the casualties are civilian. That would be well over 500. My estimate of 300 is the lower of major news sources. What's more, it is about a week and a half old.

The deliberate placing of military targets in the heart of civilian areas is a serious violation of humanitarian law, and those who chose to locate such targets in these areas must bear responsibility for the injury to civilians which this decision engenders.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=285627&postcount=427

Only a small fraction of Palestinians can control whether rockets are fired into Israel, but they all get brutally punished for it.

From their houses, mosques, schools, etc. ?
From where the rockets are fired into Israel ?

ItsMyJewty

01-14-2009, 10:55 AM

Andak01: I think that when Israel steps into barbarism to fight barbarism it is worthy of the kind of criticism that it gets from its own journalists and its own human rights monitors.

Nonsense.

andak01

01-14-2009, 10:57 AM

The deliberate placing of military targets in the heart of civilian areas is a serious violation of humanitarian law, and those who chose to locate such targets in these areas must bear responsibility for the injury to civilians which this decision engenders.

It seems to me that they do bear responsibility when they are arrested or killed.

From their houses, mosques, schools, etc. ?
From where the rockets are fired into Israel ?

I've seen enough here to believe that you could justify the death of ANY Palestinian, even a baby. You look upon all of Gaza as one big human shield that you'd be willing to fire into forever. What safe place in Gaza do you propose the non-combattants move to? Would they be allowed outside of the wall if it was determined that they were non-combattants?

redcake

01-14-2009, 11:02 AM

WAy to still miss a point though Andak. Jihad isn't a Jewish concept so your reply is nonsensical. Do you think Human Rights organizations should be defending a groups right to wage war, take revenge, respond militantly, etc. etc. Well do you?

While we're at it, do you think rallies by supposed peace organizations should include groups calling for Jihad in the form of war (yes I make the distinction as opposed to the other forms of Jihad), eradicating all the Jews worldwide, etc. etc. all while chanting "alla akbar"

Did you forget we're talking about Hamas, and we're in a thread about Bin Laden's response? You let dozens of threads slides, and THIS is the one you responded to? Bin Laden calling for a Holy war and you want to turn the discussion to Jews Holy wars of the biblical era....to what? To explain it? To justify it? Why?

andak01

01-14-2009, 11:11 AM

WAy to still miss a point though Andak. Jihad isn't a Jewish concept so your reply is nonsensical. Do you think Human Rights organizations should be defending a groups right to wage war, take revenge, respond militantly, etc. etc. Well do you?

I don't see that they are. HRW consistently condemned Hizbollah for human rights violations during the Lebanon war. They also often run articles condemning Hamas. You keep pretending that I don't condemn those groups because... I guess you've got nothing else.

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/07/29/internal-fight-0

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/04/20/palestinian-authority-hamas-must-condemn-attacks-civilians

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/01/29/occupied-palestinian-territories-hamas-must-order-permanent-end-civilian-attacks

While we're at it, do you think rallies by supposed peace organizations should include groups calling for Jihad in the form of war (yes I make the distinction as opposed to the other forms of Jihad), eradicating all the Jews worldwide, etc. etc. all while chanting "alla akbar"

Of course not.

Did you forget we're talking about Hamas, and we're in a thread about Bin Laden's response? You let dozens of threads slides, and THIS is the one you responded to? Bin Laden calling for a Holy war and you want to turn the discussion to Jews Holy wars of the biblical era....to what? To explain it? To justify it? Why?

Well I don't need to justify the holy war that created the boundaries of the promised land. It gets justified daily here. And I think we'll see that things get set straight again when Gaza is completely taken back. I remember back when everyone was concerned of the "ethnic cleansing" of the settlers by the IDF.

codedvirus

01-14-2009, 11:17 AM

What safe place in Gaza do you propose the non-combattants move to?
Would they be allowed outside of the wall if it was determined that they were non-combattants?

No need to move anywhere. If the non-combattants and PEOPLE LIKE YOU start to raise the voice against HAMAS Worldwide things will change.

Instead what you do without looking at the facts you start Anti-Israel Protests.

I could justify the death of a child because of the teachings and education. And please don't even argue with me on this one.
-----------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6257594.stm
Hamas 'Mickey Mouse' killed off
Saturday, 30 June 2007, 18:02 GMT 19:02 UK
A Palestinian TV station has killed off a controversial Mickey Mouse lookalike that critics said was spreading anti-US and anti-Israeli messages to children.

The Hamas-affiliated al-Aqsa channel aired the last episode on Friday, showing the character, Farfur, being beaten to death by an "Israeli agent".

"Farfur was martyred defending his land," said the show's presenter Saraa.

NewsGuy

01-14-2009, 11:26 AM

Mil

01-14-2009, 11:42 AM

Israel fought FIVE conventional Wars with Arabs!!!!! Israeli casualties have always been smaller then those of the Arabs. It's probably one big conspiracy.

What do you expect from a person who tries to convince us that apparently all Jews of Morocco (a country that fought Israel in all of the five wars above) disappeared because ALL immigrated. NOT INTERESTED!

So how is the stormfront thing coming. I bat these people are yelling and screaming of Zionists atrocities.

redcake

01-14-2009, 11:45 AM

Well I don't need to justify the holy war that created the boundaries of the promised land. It gets justified daily here.

Are you under the impression modern Israel's borders are even close, or that Zionists plot to expand to said borders? Because you sound really uneducated right now.

Brody15

01-14-2009, 11:47 AM

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

Jihad isn't mentioned in the book of numbers, so I'm sure what you mean when you say the book says it's a divine right.

And point to the place in the bible where it says non threatening Jews threatening jewish soverighnty gets killed, and I'll show you where you're probably taking something out of context.

CanDo

01-14-2009, 11:49 AM

Retaliating as Israel has done many times in the past is perfectly acceptable to me as I have stated again and again and again. Arresting and killing terrorists is also acceptable as is a certain degree of collateral damage.

But you would allow the Palestinian civilians to be brutalized every day by these hideous Islamic cretins, and allow your family and your neighbors to be under seige by Hamas's rockets forever? Every minute, every hour, every day, because you wouldn't have the backbone to go after the terrorists and stop them? Nice guy!? Nice morals. NOT! What you advocate is immoral and unjust.

I think that when Israel steps into barbarism to fight barbarism it is worthy of the kind of criticism that it gets from its own journalists and its own human rights monitors.

I agree. It's amazing that the IDF has been able to wage this conflict with such high regard for preventing civilian casualties. So far, Israel has not even come close to stooping to the level of the Islamic beasts from Hamas.

Israel's government doesn't target civilians, Gaza's Palestinian government does, both Israelis and Palestinians.

Israel's government doesn't use civilians as shields, Gaza's Palestinian government does.

Israel's government doesn't use civilians as bait, in order to build civilian body counts to use as propaganda, Gaza's Palestinian government does.

Israel's government doesn't indiscriminately fire missiles deliberately into civilian areas, Gaza's Palestinian government does.

Israel's government phones and warns the occupants (terrorists and civilians alike) of buildings that Israel is going to bomb, Gaza's Palestinian government does not.

A terrorist enabler can be thought of as someone who works to make terrorism more popular. Excessive civilian casualties does just that.

Israel's government doesn't use civilians as bait, in order to build civilian body counts to use as propaganda, Gaza's Palestinian government does.

You should be able to understand these points, but you are too busy enabling the Islamic terrorists beasts to worry about what is just and moral.

codedvirus

01-14-2009, 11:50 AM

Jihad isn't mentioned in the book of numbers, so I'm sure what you mean when you say the book says it's a divine right.

And point to the place in the bible where it says non threatening Jews threatening jewish soverighnty gets killed, and I'll show you where you're probably taking something out of context.

I don't no where he gets the numbers from.

Originally Posted by andak01
Well let's go back over the past couple of weeks. Civilian victims of Hamas 3. Civilians killed in Gaza ~300. Or go back to 2001, civilian victims of Qassam missiles from 2001 to today ~30. Hamas is evil for killing 30, but Israel is preposterously inept at preventing collateral damage.

Originally Posted by codedvirus
1,176 Israelis have been killed and 8,341 wounded in terror attacks since 2000 to 2007. And this doesn't even include the Palestinians killed by Hamas, mainly when cleansing their Fatah rivals from the strip.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc .htm

Madeline

01-14-2009, 12:06 PM

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

Andak, I am really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, but how can you come here, cite 'Numbers' as something that relates to the current Jihad, and think you can get away with it?
You are correct, the Jews of old have committed many wrongs in the face of God, who than, in turn, punished them severely for it. And they have learned from their mistakes, as we all should have.
What you seem to overlook is the fact that Muslims as a whole have not come out of the past.
This is 2009, God is still watching, but WE have learned from the past. That is the difference.

Y. Shulamith

01-14-2009, 12:12 PM

What else isn't new? They've been rabid about calling for jihads and issuing fatwas for years!!!

Nit-wits!!

CanDo

01-14-2009, 12:14 PM

Only a small fraction of Palestinians can control whether rockets are fired into Israel, but they all get brutally punished for it.

Nonsense. The Palestinians elected a government, Hamas, that has in it's charter the destruction of Israel. The Palestinians freely elected these beasts. The Palestinian control whether rockets are fired into Israel by electing Islamic beasts that they know will attack and try to murder Jews. The Palestinian people celebrate and hand out candy when Jews are murdered.

The so-called "brutal punishment" of the Palestinian Arabs is their own doing!

As Golda Meir once said: Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.

Personally, I care NOTHING about the wellbeing and welfare of the backward, hateful, racist, violent, illogical Arab world. May it rot in the hell that they have made for themselves!

andak01

01-14-2009, 12:29 PM

But you would allow the Palestinian civilians to be brutalized every day by these hideous Islamic cretins, and allow your family and your neighbors to be under seige by Hamas's rockets forever? Every minute, every hour, every day, because you wouldn't have the backbone to go after the terrorists and stop them? Nice guy!? Nice morals. NOT! What you advocate is immoral and unjust.

It's pretty easy to discredit me by saying I said things that I never said. Everybody seems to cheer: "Good job." whenever that happens.

I most certainly did NOT say let it happen or do nothing. I most certainly DID say that retaliations are acceptable. And I said it again and again. But I can hardly wait to see the peanut gallery high five you again for "trapping" me. If a full on invasion of Gaza WOULD stop the rockets, I'd be for it. If it WOULD discredit, disempower, disable Hamas, I'd be celebrating. But it won't. Israel went into Lebanon with the same intention and now rockets are again coming from Hizbollah. I didn't say do nothing then and I'm not saying it now. I didn't say don't take ANY civilian casualties then and I'm not saying it now.

Y. Shulamith

01-14-2009, 12:31 PM

These folks, the Palestinians are so wonderful that not ONE Arab country wishes to accept just about ANY of them. That speaks volumes for the type of people that they are. No other country wishes to welcome and host this "lovely" group of individuals, yet they berate Israel for their supposed ill-treatment of the same.

What a laugh....if it weren't so pathetic.

CanDo

01-14-2009, 12:49 PM

It's pretty easy to discredit me by saying I said things that I never said.

You are an enabler of Islamic terrorism by what you do say. You discredit yourself with your own words. You don't need me, or anyone else on this forum, to discredit you.

... If a full on invasion of Gaza WOULD stop the rockets, I'd be for it.

Whether or not Israel's invasion of Gaza will stop the rockets remains to be seen. After a truce, I think that Hamas will think twice before firing any more rockets into Israel. At least, I hope so.

You obviously feel that, soon after a truce, Hamas will start firing up the rockets again. I hope that you are wrong. But if it happens, I hope that Israel responds like it did this time.

Y. Shulamith

01-14-2009, 01:02 PM

It is important that any cease-fire be incumbent upon complete discontinuation of any terrorist group's ability to re-arm and re-stock weapons through any place along the West Bank or Gaza Strip.

Without this, a guarantee, (as much as one can guarantee this type of thing) and follow-up to ensure that this is enforced, this military operation will have to be done again and again.

I hope that something can be done to make sure that Hamas and whomever else, is completely unable to re-arm.

Madeline

01-14-2009, 01:24 PM

andak01

01-14-2009, 01:33 PM

I don't no where he gets the numbers from.

I was trying to be conservative. It isn't my purpose to exagerate the numbers.

Its release came on the 19th day of Israel's military campaign in the Gaza Strip targeting Hamas militants, which Palestinian doctors say has left 940 people dead, less than half of whom were combatants.

So the Palestinian number would be more like 470, not 300. I'll stick with 300 thank you.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/14/terror/main4720357.shtml?source=mostpop_story

andak01

01-14-2009, 01:44 PM

Whether or not Israel's invasion of Gaza will stop the rockets remains to be seen. After a truce, I think that Hamas will think twice before firing any more rockets into Israel. At least, I hope so.

I hope so too.

You obviously feel that, soon after a truce, Hamas will start firing up the rockets again. I hope that you are wrong. But if it happens, I hope that Israel responds like it did this time.

I'm sure the volume will be pumped up yet again. Perhaps this time to 3000.

CanDo

01-14-2009, 02:23 PM

I'm sure the volume will be pumped up yet again. Perhaps this time to 3000.

How many rockets would you find acceptable, to be fired at your family, before you took action again? Would you wait until a school was hit, filled with students, before you took action.

Since the number of rockets is so very important to you, how many is OK?

kozzol

01-14-2009, 02:28 PM

andak01 can you just clarify for me whether your concern for the amount of casualties in Gaza, stems from you being a muslim or from compassion for your fellow human being, or both?

NewsGuy

01-14-2009, 03:36 PM

1,176 Israelis have been killed and 8,341 wounded in terror attacks since 2000 to 2007. And this doesn't even include the Palestinians killed by Hamas, mainly when cleansing their Fatah rivals from the strip.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Victims+of+Palestinian+Violence+and+Terrorism+sinc .htm
Well said.

The unfortunate truth is that for radical Muslims and their Leftist supporters, Jewish victims are insignificant at best, and highly desirable at worst.

The fact that Hamas shot approx. 6,000 rockets into Israeli cities, prompting this latest crisis has been totally disregarded by many of the Muslim and Leftist terrorism supporters who now complain when Hamas terrorists are being killed.

Interesting, too, that no one seems to utter a peep about the Muslim terrorists using mosques as weapons storage facilities, or firing Grad rockets out of civilian homes. That, apparently, has nothing to do with the number of civilian casualties... ;)

Achihud

01-14-2009, 04:13 PM

Interesting, too, that no one seems to utter a peep about the Muslim terrorists using mosques as weapons storage facilities, or firing Grad rockets out of civilian homes. That, apparently, has nothing to do with the number of civilian casualties... ;)
Yesterday they showed rather extensive clear footage on a dutch channel (ned3) of rockets being fired from mosques and outside of a public school. Topic was the use of human shield by Hamas and why.

kozzol

01-14-2009, 04:23 PM

Did anyone catch the 6 o'clock news on Al Jazeera tonite?

Hamas was giving a speech of dribble to the Eygptian press and it all went a bit pear shaped for them as the press started demanding answers about using human shields, mosque and schools.

The Hamas spokesman was actually shouted down with questions and was looking right pee'd off and got up and left.

Madeline

01-14-2009, 04:23 PM

Yala

01-14-2009, 05:43 PM

Did anyone catch the 6 o'clock news on Al Jazeera tonite?

FYI it is banned in the US as it is a terrorist supporting network.

Mediocrates

01-14-2009, 06:42 PM

It really comes down to the duty of the state to protect its citizens. If not from this then we might as well do away with cops, seatbelts, the FDA and just about the rest of civil order. Because it's not about numbers, it's about civil order itself.

Tonto

01-14-2009, 08:24 PM

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

So, you are suggesting genocide AGAIN??? Shame on you!!! I think you may be a very bloody minded person. You scare me. But, you're still one of God's misguided children, bless your heart. Try to control yourself in future.

codedvirus

01-15-2009, 05:00 AM

Unexploded Rocket in GAZA.

When i look images like this I don't understand should i be happy or sad.

Toadstool46

01-15-2009, 07:35 AM

Bin Laden is just another coward. What has he done but hide and run for his life. Then put out propaganda about Jihad. Doesn't he know there is a war going on.

He should get out more. :rofl:

kozzol

01-15-2009, 07:53 AM

Yala wrote

YI it is banned in the US as it is a terrorist supporting network.

Can you give me some links Yala, as I have looked for its ban due to what you have posted, but can find neither, and I know you normally have supporting links to this information. Thanks.

andak01

01-15-2009, 08:01 AM

andak01 can you just clarify for me whether your concern for the amount of casualties in Gaza, stems from you being a muslim or from compassion for your fellow human being, or both?

I have compassion for my fellow humans. I still accept non-combatant men, women and children from among the Palestinians as members of the human race. I have no support for terrorists whether they are arrested or killed. I have repeatedly said in almost every post that I totally condemn Hamas rockets and would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them. So quite clearly I am not saying do nothing or don't retaliate in any manner.

But the wingnuts in this forum MUST define me as a jihadi because they have no other pigeon hole to stick me in. It is unimaginable to them that a Muslim could actually wish that Hamas would stop attacking Israel or that Israel would come to some solution wherein no further Israeli civilians would be killed. At the same time, I reserve the right to criticize Israel to the level that non-Muslims, Jews and Americans have for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME. I don't get up and stand on a soapbox everytime a Palestinian is arrested or killed not even when they are civilian. That has happened many times in the past and I said nothing because I had no comment about it.

Madeline

01-15-2009, 08:05 AM

Bin Laden is just another coward. What has he done but hide and run for his life. Then put out propaganda about Jihad. Doesn't he know there is a war going on.

He should get out more. :rofl:
Bin Laden, probably clad in a Hijab when convenient....good point.

codedvirus

01-15-2009, 08:10 AM

But the wingnuts in this forum MUST define me as a jihadi because they have no other pigeon hole to stick me in. It is unimaginable to them that a Muslim could actually wish that Hamas would stop attacking Israel or that Israel would come to some solution wherein no further Israeli civilians would be killed. At the same time, I reserve the right to criticize Israel to the level that non-Muslims, Jews and Americans have for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME. I don't get up and stand on a soapbox everytime a Palestinian is arrested or killed not even when they are civilian. That has happened many times in the past and I said nothing because I had no comment about it.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543548

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?t=14961
Spending Zakah Money on Jihad

Muslims have never been more severely afflicted than they are nowadays. Many of their lands have been captured by the disbelievers, on top of which is Palestine that has fallen victim to corrupt Jews. Similarly, Kashmir has been dominated by pagan Hindus. Chechnya and other Islamic states have fallen in the grip of pagan tyrannical communism.

Retrieving these lands, freeing them from the clutches of atheists and their twisted laws is the joint responsibility of all Muslims. Declaring Jihad to save our land is an Islamic obligation.

codedvirus

01-15-2009, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by andak01
I have no support for terrorists whether they are arrested or killed. I have repeatedly said in almost every post that I totally condemn Hamas rockets and would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them.

I am confused now.

ItsMyJewty

01-15-2009, 08:20 AM

andak01: At the same time, I reserve the right to criticize Israel to the level that non-Muslims, Jews and Americans have for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME.

The "yes, but" response. ;)

NewsGuy

01-15-2009, 09:29 AM

Yesterday they showed rather extensive clear footage on a dutch channel (ned3) of rockets being fired from mosques and outside of a public school. Topic was the use of human shield by Hamas and why.

Did anyone catch the 6 o'clock news on Al Jazeera tonite?

Hamas was giving a speech of dribble to the Eygptian press and it all went a bit pear shaped for them as the press started demanding answers about using human shields, mosque and schools.

The Hamas spokesman was actually shouted down with questions and was looking right pee'd off and got up and left.

Here is some footage:

http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk

This is very good news, and I'm thrilled that this is going on. I only wish more of it was happening in the MSM all over Europe and the US.

Yala

01-15-2009, 10:02 AM

Yala wrote

Can you give me some links Yala, as I have looked for its ban due to what you have posted, but can find neither, and I know you normally have supporting links to this information. Thanks.

My mistake. They banned it in Iraq for that reason. Here it is available in very few households because most cable companies refuse to carry it for the same reason.

Brody15

01-15-2009, 10:50 AM

I have compassion for my fellow humans. I still accept non-combatant men, women and children from among the Palestinians as members of the human race. I have no support for terrorists whether they are arrested or killed. I have repeatedly said in almost every post that I totally condemn Hamas rockets and would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them. So quite clearly I am not saying do nothing or don't retaliate in any manner.

But the wingnuts in this forum MUST define me as a jihadi because they have no other pigeon hole to stick me in. It is unimaginable to them that a Muslim could actually wish that Hamas would stop attacking Israel or that Israel would come to some solution wherein no further Israeli civilians would be killed. At the same time, I reserve the right to criticize Israel to the level that non-Muslims, Jews and Americans have for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME. I don't get up and stand on a soapbox everytime a Palestinian is arrested or killed not even when they are civilian. That has happened many times in the past and I said nothing because I had no comment about it.

One thing I'd ask you is how you hold two opposing view points, one, that you condemn Hamas rockets and would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them but at the same time criticize Israel for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME.

Questioning Israel's response is one thing, but criticizing it, given the fact, show anger and frustration towards Israel that is disproportionate to any hard feelings felt towards HAMAS. I would think Israel's response is pretty tame.

Imagine if the Ukraine started lobbing rockets into Russia after they shut off the gas. My guess is that Russia would utterly destroy the Ukraine, occupy it, and annex it, with little to no regard for civillian casualties.

codedvirus

01-15-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by andak01
would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them.

CAN YOU PLEASE Find me ONE incidence in this current fighting where the Israelis deliberately expected more than 10% collateral damage.

redcake

01-15-2009, 12:01 PM

CAN YOU PLEASE Find me ONE incidence in this current fighting where the Israelis deliberately expected more than 10% collateral damage.

Will you accept Jenin Prime numbers for the math?

Achihud

01-15-2009, 04:54 PM

Hebrew tribes approaching…

Canaanites; "What are you people doing here. This is our land, beat it or you will learn soon enough why!"
Hebrews; "This isn’t your land anymore, it has been promised to us by our God."
Canaanites; "Which god should that be and to whom has he spoken to?"
Hebrews; "Our God is the only One and He has promised this piece of land to the children of our forefather Abraham."
...
Leader of the Canaanites; "Where is he now?"
Leader of the Hebrews; "Our forefather Abraham has passed away."
Leader of the Canaanites; "When?"
Leader of the Hebrews; "More then a few hundred times twelve new moons ago."
...
Leader of the Canaaanites; "So you want us to hand over a piece of land where our ancestors lived and died serving the gods that blessed them for keeping it, all for some guy who lived so long ago that not one standing among you could know anything for sure about him? Let me think………………………

…I think I’ll pass."

Canaanite people standing by; WHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
WHAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Leader of the Canaanites; "No wait……

…..nah!"

WHAAAAAAAAAAA---HAHAHAHAHA
WHAAAAAAAAAAA---HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hebrew leader turning around; "Nah forget it."

Read the book of Numbers and you'll find it is a devine right. You'll also find there that non-Jew threatening Jewish soverenty over the promised land gets killed down to the cattle. Reading the posts on this forum I can see how pervasive this teaching is.

So, you are suggesting genocide AGAIN??? Shame on you!!! I think you may be a very bloody minded person. You scare me. But, you're still one of God's misguided children (…)

More specificly the leftist take on god-the-concept-delusion of God’s misguided children!

Tonto

01-15-2009, 04:56 PM

I don't understand why anyone pays attention to this clown OBL unless it's where can I find him to collect the bounty. Jihad against Israel is a GIVEN.....surprise! Like we didn't know that? What a loser. Typical arab.

Y. Shulamith

01-15-2009, 06:09 PM

Well, if any of this holds true, perhaps all the folks in the USA should go back to whereever they came from and give the land bad to Native Americans.

Maybe folks in Canada should go back to France and England and the Muzzie countries they came from, and, last but not least,

maybe everyone south of the border, including all of South America should return to their native lands and give the land bad to indigenous peoples of the area, also.

Pffttttt.......Israel is the land of the Hebrew Nation!!!!

Madeline

01-15-2009, 06:13 PM

"Pffttttt.......Israel is the land of the Hebrew Nation!!!! "

Last time I checked the Bible, it said exactly that.

andak01

01-16-2009, 07:37 AM

One thing I'd ask you is how you hold two opposing view points, one, that you condemn Hamas rockets and would and have accepted a certain level of civilian collateral damage to prevent them but at the same time criticize Israel for having gone too far in their actions THIS TIME.

It's not two opposing views, it's the same one. That's why there have been many attacks on Hamas that I haven't criticized at all. That's why I wasn't critical of bringing ground forced into Gaza. My aim is to prevent ALL Israeli civilian casualties and SOME of Palestinian civilian casualties and NONE of terrorist casualties.

Questioning Israel's response is one thing, but criticizing it, given the fact, show anger and frustration towards Israel that is disproportionate to any hard feelings felt towards HAMAS. I would think Israel's response is pretty tame.

I'm not sure how you look into my heart and know what my feelings are. I certainly haven't expressed any joy at all for IDF casualties or dead Israelis, and I have stated my relief at killed terrorists. So I'm not sure where you are coming from.

Imagine if the Ukraine started lobbing rockets into Russia after they shut off the gas. My guess is that Russia would utterly destroy the Ukraine, occupy it, and annex it, with little to no regard for civillian casualties.

In this scenario, was Ukraine annexed first? Were the Ukrainians forced to move there? There are some differences. However, in your scenario, Ukraine would be condemned for what it did and Russia for what it did, probably after the fact.

bararallu

01-16-2009, 08:09 AM

My aim is to prevent ALL Israeli civilian casualties and SOME of Palestinian civilian casualties and NONE of terrorist casualties.

Are you a miracle worker Andak? You obviously have NO military training or understanding. All modern warfare will create civilian casualties. And when one party specifically attacks civilians, then all bets are off. We haven't stooped to Hamas (or really typical Palestinian) tactics (like blaming us, while employing white phosphorus); but the longer they do, and the more people they kill the more likely we will escalate and more of their civilians will die because they use them as human shields primarily.

That is the bottom line. I understand that the hypocrites of this world will still blame us, but, based on the recent polls, we are done carrying about that.

Tonto

01-16-2009, 10:28 AM

bararall, I think you nailed it again. Israel has heard every criticism and threat there is already. The whole world has learned that attempting to negotiate with muz is ALWAYS fruitless and a pure waste of time that is focused on benefiting the muz agenda. The muz propaganda needs to be more thoroughly exposed however, to demonstrate just how twisted those animals are. Meanwhile, hopefully, Israel will "stay the course" and continue to attack Gaza until their objectives are realized. Just keep whackin' and stackin'. After a while the dumb asses will "get" the idea.

Brody15

01-16-2009, 10:43 AM

It's not two opposing views, it's the same one. That's why there have been many attacks on Hamas that I haven't criticized at all. That's why I wasn't critical of bringing ground forced into Gaza. My aim is to prevent ALL Israeli civilian casualties and SOME of Palestinian civilian casualties and NONE of terrorist casualties.

I'm not sure how you look into my heart and know what my feelings are. I certainly haven't expressed any joy at all for IDF casualties or dead Israelis, and I have stated my relief at killed terrorists. So I'm not sure where you are coming from.

So why criticize Israel at all? Why not praise them for their restraint?