After cease-fire, Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel

[NewsGuy]

Within 48 hours of Israel's cease-fire, Hamas began attacking departing IDF soldiers, and has so far fired 8 rockets at Israel.

The latest barrage of rockets fired by Hamas comes as many Israelis wonder why Israel would have stopped its operation before finishing off Hamas. In the past few days, Israel was extremely close to solving the Hamas problem (i.e., stopping Iranian operations on Israel's Southern border), when Leftist politicians Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barak, and PM Olmert decided to stop right before achieving victory.

And the result of the Leftists' decision to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, is plain to see. Once again, Israel's citizens are under terrorist attack while the Muslim terrorism supporters and Leftists have managed to portray Israel as the aggressor.

In light of the latest cease-fire violations and the resumption of Hamas firing rockets into Israel, the IDF needs to turn back and target the remaining Hamas operatives regardless of the civilian casualties that the Palestinians will unfortunately incur. Like al Qaeda and other Muslim terrorism groups, if Hamas operatives are left alive and the IDF's job remains unfinished, Hamas will simply continue to mass-murder Christians, Jews, and all others.

[Fall]

Israel was extremely close to solving the Hamas problem (i.e., stopping Iranian operations on Israel Southern border), when Leftist politicians Tzipi Livni, Ehud Barak, and PM Olmert decided to stop right before achieving victory.


That's the solution?! I doubt stopping there arms supply will solve the problems in Gaza, do you think Sterodt will be safe if that happens? As you know Hamas has fused itself into the Gaza community, and Fatah are not welcome with their questionable/corrupt motives. It just amazes me that the dreaded PLO are now welcome as Fatah as bringers of peace to the world community. If Fatah takes over somehow, you think other smaller cells won't be sending over there occasional walking bomb into Israel? As well do you think Fatah will have any power over the overzealous settlers who wander into Gaza?

Sorry for the Fragments, stopping by in between classes :(

[bararallu]

That's the solution?! I doubt stopping there arms supply will solve the problems in Gaza, do you think Sterodt will be safe if that happens? As you know Hamas has fused itself into the Gaza community, and Fatah are not welcome with their questionable/corrupt motives. It just amazes me that the dreaded PLO are now welcome as Fatah as bringers of peace to the world community. If Fatah takes over somehow, you think other smaller cells won't be sending over there occasional walking bomb into Israel? As well do you think Fatah will have any power over the overzealous settlers who wander into Gaza?

Sorry for the Fragments, stopping by in between classes :(


Fall,

What would you expect your govt to do if a foreign country was lobbing random mortars and missiles into your neighborhood?

If this was happening to the US, there would be a hole in the ground with a massive diameter, where once lived people, militants or civilians, Muslims, Christians, Jews or name it. Thats historically the case... having a double standard for Israel is well a double standard. From our perspective it is questionable. It's also not only the US. Every country that criticises Israel is doing so hypocritically... the Russians for example had leveled Grozny. They killed on a scale of genocide. How many SC resolutions? The Chinese daily prosecute and have killed probably hundreds of thousands of Tibetans, and Turkic nationals. The Alawi Syrians have killed 20,000 Sunnis is a day, Jordan the same in a week, Egypt many times that in Yemen. There is currently a masscre by an insane Christian derived cult in the Congo massacring Animists and other Christian Congolease, have you heard how many people died there? Was it even reported on the news? Where was the bad press in the Arab world condemning the Sudanese for mass murdering Fur (black) Muslims? Where was the bad press when the Algerian govt started slaughtering Islamists left and right. When did the world, much less the Arab world, condemn the ethnic cleansing of 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait?

Contextually, I think we have a very strong case. Human suffering is bad everywhere, w/o doubt, whether Arab or Jew, but somehow it is the self determined Jews (and their Druze, Bedouin Muslim alies etc) that get disproportionally condemned and targeted (and demonified).

[NewsGuy]

That's the solution?! I doubt stopping there arms supply will solve the problems in Gaza, do you think Sterodt will be safe if that happens?
I don't think so.

To stop the threat from Gaza, we need to remove Hamas. Abbas needs to be in power there (hopefully under the supervision of foreign troops).

As you know Hamas has fused itself into the Gaza community, and Fatah are not welcome with their questionable/corrupt motives. It just amazes me that the dreaded PLO are now welcome as Fatah as bringers of peace to the world community. If Fatah takes over somehow, you think other smaller cells won't be sending over there occasional walking bomb into Israel? As well do you think Fatah will have any power over the overzealous settlers who wander into Gaza?
Many Gazans hate Hamas, as they've been abused, robbed, beaten, etc., by Hamas thugs.

While all Palestinian factions are basically terrorist thugs who rob their own people and would like nothing more than to mass-murder every Christian and Jew they can get their hands on, Fatah is, for the moment, the preferable party. For example, so far, Fatah has managed to control Hamas and prevent any rockets from being fired out of the West Bank.

Believe me -- I would prefer not to have either Hamas or Fatah in control of the Palestinians. I would much rather see the Palestinians take their terrorism and Jihad with them and be promptly marched into Jordan and Egypt so they can live in peace and freedom with their Muslim brothers.

[Yala]

I don't think so.

To stop the threat from Gaza, we need to remove Hamas. Abbas needs to be in power there (hopefully under the supervision of foreign troops).



Stop your delusions. Who is Abbas? What can he do? I guess you missed the article I posted where his military wing admitted to firing 102 rockets into Israel and 35 mortars.

The solution is as follows:

1) Continue working on the anti-rocket system which they are close to finishing.
2) Build a moat on the Israel-Gaza border. Close all borders and let Egypt deal with their humanitarian care aka smuggling.

Many Gazans hate Hamas, as they've been abused, robbed, beaten, etc., by Hamas thugs.

Again, stop your delusions. Gaza = Hamas. I can guarantee on the next poll they will be more popular than ever.

While all Palestinian factions are basically terrorist thugs who rob their own people and would like nothing more than to mass-murder every Christian and Jew they can get their hands on,

Well except for the useful Christians and Jews that is.

Fatah is, for the moment, the preferable party. For example, so far, Fatah has managed to control Hamas and prevent any rockets from being fired out of the West Bank.

Only to allow Israel to fight their fight for them. They are hoping that Israel will destroy their rival Hamas and then they can step in to continue slaughtering Jews. They are and have always been a trojan horse.

[voblak2]

I agree. Israel should have continued fighting until Hamas was exterminated. They are like cancer, you don't leave it in your body (inside Israel) but rather kill it. The only people who should be allowed to live in Israel are Jews or those who love Israel. Israel cannot afford to let these people live, they must once & for all destroy all Palestinians/Arabs living within their borders if they refuse to leave.

[Mediocrates]

If this was happening to the US, there would be a hole in the ground with a massive diameter, where once lived people, militants or civilians, Muslims, Christians, Jews or name it.


I used to believe that. I no longer do. I think those days are over. I think the US is ready to accept any low level of terrorism indefinitely.

[Y. Shulamith]

I don't believe the USA will allow any terrorist nonsense within the USA.....what the future brings, who knows, but for now, the USA is giving a very short stick to any kind of terrorism that unfolds.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/shell_fort_dix.html

[NewsGuy]

Stop your delusions...
Again, stop your delusions.
Uhhh.... Yessir! Right away! :rofl:

[Justcurious]

Sad, if the first statement is correct. Has any neutral source counted the Israeli response?

[Yala]

Uhhh.... Yessir! Right away! :rofl:

I don't think anyone on this site besides Takeo agrees with your delusional stance/opinion of Fatah. Do you have any comment on the rockets they fired from Gaza at Israel or are you going to ignore my points and just respond with smiley faces?

[Fall]

I agree. Israel should have continued fighting until Hamas was exterminated. They are like cancer, you don't leave it in your body (inside Israel) but rather kill it. The only people who should be allowed to live in Israel are Jews or those who love Israel. Israel cannot afford to let these people live, they must once & for all destroy all Palestinians/Arabs living within their borders if they refuse to leave.

Have fun believing that would work, without WWIII (aka Armageddon?) starting.

[Fall]

Fall,

What would you expect your govt to do if a foreign country was lobbing random mortars and missiles into your neighborhood?



Well first off, I believe comparing and simplifying this to a "your country" is an insult to anyone who has any historical knowledge of the Palestine/Israel struggle (that's just my opinion). My views on Cast Lead are irrelevant on this forum and we both know that.

There is no comparison to counter the non stop sirens and panic in Sderot and the slums lead by gangs that is Gaza.

[NewsGuy]

I don't think anyone on this site besides Takeo agrees with your delusional stance/opinion of Fatah. Do you have any comment on the rockets they fired from Gaza at Israel or are you going to ignore my points and just respond with smiley faces?
So long as you're being rude, yep... :)

[Yala]

Well what I think is rude is for Jews to try and convince other Jews to do business with with Fatah, which is a terrorist organization by all accounts. Second of all, I think we need to remind people that the people of Gaza voted for Hamas to be their elected representatives. You can say they hate them and are abused by them all you want, but all evidence states that they are with Hamas, much as the people of southern Lebanon are still for Hezballah. I think it is our duty to remind people of this whenever we can, not delude people into false scenarios.

[NewsGuy]

Well first off, I believe comparing and simplifying this to a "your country" is an insult to anyone who has any historical knowledge of the Palestine/Israel struggle (that's just my opinion). My views on Cast Lead are irrelevant on this forum and we both know that.
Why? Some of the most widely read members here don't support many of Israel's decisions.

Have fun believing that would work, without WWIII (aka Armageddon?) starting.
What he said was wrong.

To have real peace, there needs to be a total separation between Muslims and Jews in Israel. Jews deserve to live in the Jewish homeland of Israel in peace, and the Muslims deserve to return to their various homelands where they can live in peace.

However, if the Muslims of Hamas continue to shoot rockets and missiles into Israeli cities and continue with their terrorism (as they do in every country in the world), they need to be forcefully shown the way back to their countries where their own governments can deal with them as they please.

[NewsGuy]

Well what I think is rude is for Jews to try and convince other Jews to do business with with Fatah, which is a terrorist organization by all accounts. Second of all, I think we need to remind people that the people of Gaza voted for Hamas to be their elected representatives. You can say they hate them and are abused by them all you want, but all evidence states that they are with Hamas, much as the people of southern Lebanon are still for Hezballah. I think it is our duty to remind people of this whenever we can, not delude people into false scenarios.
ok, that's much more reasonable.

You're exactly right about the points you make. Hamas was the choice of the Palestinians in Gaza. They chose Hamas precisely because it is a terrorist organization bent on mass-murdering Jews, which is basically the national dream of most Palestinians. The Palestinians don't dream of running a normal country. They dream of Jihad-genocide against Christians, Jews, and everyone else.

Fatah is another terrorist organization that would be more than glad to slaughter every Christian and Jews, much like Hamas. In that respect, they are identical. Abbas is a Holocaust denier, and the Fatah is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews (and actually of Muslims and Christians for that matter, of you count the PLO's death toll).

The difference is that the Fatah depends on Western financial and political support to survive, and in the West Bank where Fatah already rules over its own cities, there have been no rockets fired into Israel. Also, the Fatah works with the IDF to turn in Hamas operatives and some other radical Muslims, which the IDF arrests with full Fatah cooperation.

In the end, there can be no peace with any of the Palestinian terror groups, but for the time being, Fatah is better suited to rule over the people of Gaza with an iron fist. For example: Notice that there were no major anti-Israel demonstrations in the West Bank during the Gaza operation, as Fatah cracked down on Hamas supporters.

Of course, there's no terrorism-free peace partner among the Palestinians. If there were, they would be killed in an instant, as terrorism is a basic part of Muslim culture in general, and Palestinian culture in particular.

[Yala]

Isn't it true Hamas is going to receive 2 billion from the EU and UN to "rebuild Gaza?"

[Fall]

I hope it's not Hamas who gets it, nor Fatah. It should be rebuilt by the Swiss or someone neuteral :).

[Fall]

Why? Some of the most widely read members here don't support many of Israel's decisions.


Well first off, criticizing anyone's military makes people mad. The bulk of the forum goers here support the IDF regardless of what they do. Certainly now that "Hamas fired from here it's a viable target" is an actual successful PR strategy. Like i said i don't feel insulting servicemen is correct, and criticizing them on this forum seems like the fastest way to be hated by everyone.

[Steven]

Isn't it true Hamas is going to receive 2 billion from the EU and UN to "rebuild Gaza?"

The Saudis said that they will pay for half of the rebuild.

[KiwiWriter]

1) Continue working on the anti-rocket system which they are close to finishing.


Is that Missile or laser based? I did read / see (can't remember which) quite a while ago that they were working on a laser based system. Just wondering how far along that is.

[NewsGuy]

Well first off, criticizing anyone's military makes people mad. The bulk of the forum goers here support the IDF regardless of what they do. Certainly now that "Hamas fired from here it's a viable target" is an actual successful PR strategy. Like i said i don't feel insulting servicemen is correct, and criticizing them on this forum seems like the fastest way to be hated by everyone.
My advice is don't worry about being popular. Just say your opinion and support it with facts. That's the best way, IMO.

But firing back at Hamas terrorists isn't a PR strategy -- It's now become a matter of survival for Israel. Please recall that, for decades, Israel allowed Hamas to fire rockets into Israeli population centers and the strategy of not doing anything didn't stop those rockets. On the contrary, more than 5,000 rockets were fired by Hamas into Israeli cities before the IDF reacted with this scale of force. And still, it looks like the job is not done and Israel will need to go back and finish the job sometime in the future.

[Fall]

Yeah, how they'll finish the job is the true challenge imo. Today they just finished withdrawing all there troops. Hamas is respected as a resistance group, but i wish they could respect life and actually understand what Jihad actually means.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/21/israel.gaza/index.html?eref=edition (Why'd they leave that rocket launcher device their, i'm sure Hamas will take it apart and use it to their advantage. Maybe it's just a reminder left by the IDF?)

I actually read the other day that Hamas is bragging that Israel pulled out faster then one the week limit Hamas set up, because they were afraid of Hamas. :scratch:

[LovE Gaza]

One would not take over the Gaza life


عذراً غزه

[Rob]

عذراً غزه


Everybody is sorry for Gaza one way or another. What is your point?

[thatisraelgirl]

To Fall--While we appreciate your input on the Israeli/Gaza operation, I'd save your pessimism for the US (where I'm also from). I recently visited Chicago where you're from. There's a huge Arab population there and a huge number of them are extremely angry, anti-US, and anti-American people as a whole. You might want to take a look at your own backyard first.

[Y. Shulamith]

To Fall--While we appreciate your input on the Israeli/Gaza operation, I'd save your pessimism for the US (where I'm also from). I recently visited Chicago where you're from. There's a huge Arab population there and a huge number of them are extremely angry, anti-US, and anti-American people as a whole. You might want to take a look at your own backyard first.

Boy is that the truth; I joined a web site which originiates from NPR and is supposedly about music, but once I put in a strong pro-Israeli thread, boy did the rats come out of the wood work. SOMB (Sound Opinons Music Board) is a nest of euro's, jihadists and anti-semites that you would never believe came from Chicago; you'd swear lots of them were dyed-in-the-wool middle eastern Jihadists (maybe they are, for all I know). So much for National Public Radio and their ilk.

So much for Chicago; I was wondering what the hell was going on there...:tdown:

[Fall]

To Fall--While we appreciate your input on the Israeli/Gaza operation, I'd save your pessimism for the US (where I'm also from). I recently visited Chicago where you're from. There's a huge Arab population there and a huge number of them are extremely angry, anti-US, and anti-American people as a whole. You might want to take a look at your own backyard first.

If newsguy doesn't have a problem with me expressing my opinions I won't censor myself.

Congratulations on looking at my location, theres a pretty big Arab population in every U.S. major city. No Arabs I talk to are "anti-US, and anti-American" what a combo! Believe it or not, most people who are old enough to vote and own a business cherish America. The Chicago land Area Arabs actually get along with the Jewish community just fine. When a synagogue was attacked in Chicago recently CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) came to the defense of that synagogue, much like they offered their sympathies after local mosques were attacked after 9-11. I'm not a janitor, it's not my duty to apologize/clean up for idiots who misrepresent their people.

[Fall]

Boy is that the truth; I joined a web site which originiates from NPR and is supposedly about music, but once I put in a strong pro-Israeli thread, boy did the rats come out of the wood work. SOMB (Sound Opinons Music Board) is a nest of euro's, jihadists and anti-semites that you would never believe came from Chicago; you'd swear lots of them were dyed-in-the-wool middle eastern Jihadists (maybe they are, for all I know). So much for National Public Radio and their ilk.

So much for Chicago; I was wondering what the hell was going on there...:tdown:

The Jewish community in Chicago is strong and prosperous, don't give a good city the :tdown: cause some forum made you mad! NPR is pretty liberal, why are you so surprised?

[Y. Shulamith]

Why must liberalism be tied to pro-Islamic views?????

Can't one be liberal and Pro-Israel?

[Fall]

Why must liberalism be tied to pro-Islamic views?????

Can't one be liberal and Pro-Israel?

You can be Pro-Israeli with any political view, and liberal as long as promoting liberty and equality are your main political views. Interesting you didn't compare Pro-Palestinian and Pro-Israel. Instead you choose Pro-Islam, but thats another discussion.

NPR tends to favor secular views from what I've listened to, and they only mention religion when it makes the news. Religion is not even listed as one of their news topics. So don't worry about NPR calling for prayer over their frequencies anytime soon.:p

[Brody15]

Why must liberalism be tied to pro-Islamic views?????

Can't one be liberal and Pro-Israel?

That's funny, I was just thinking about this. IMO, the same kind of thinking it takes to understand the whole scope of the Israeli-Arab conflict, is the same kind of thinking it takes to realize how fascist the modern liberal movement is. Sorry to be such a hardliner, but, hey, it's just my opinion!

I would bet that the farthest a liberal would go in supporting Israel would be to say that both sides should stop. That same person would probably also feel the need to point out how Israel has contributed to the problem, they might also not fully understand the history of the region, and could not fully condemn suicide bombers without trying to understand them.

Granted I probably took the above question out of context, but as a question just on it's own, I don't think a liberal can be pro-Israel without conditions.

[Y. Shulamith]

I don't know, I am kind of on the liberal side as regards womens' rights, socialized medicine, war in Iraq and those type of issues, but I am also very, very pro-Israel and anti-terrorism.

[KiwiWriter]

I don't know, I am kind of on the liberal side as regards womens' rights, socialized medicine, war in Iraq and those type of issues, but I am also very, very pro-Israel and anti-terrorism.

It may have to do with how far to the left someone is. Over here we have the Green Party and the Labour Party. Both are quite liberal but the Greens are definately further left than Labour so they are often more extreme.

Just a suggestion. :)

[Brody15]

I don't know, I am kind of on the liberal side as regards womens' rights, socialized medicine, war in Iraq and those type of issues, but I am also very, very pro-Israel and anti-terrorism.

Socialized medicine is on the liberal side, or democrat side, but doesn't make you a far lefty. And you're probably a reasonable person. When I say liberal, I think of far left crazies who aren't game for discussion. There are far righties like that too.

[Y. Shulamith]

Yeah, I'm not a card-carrying member of PETA, Earth First, or Amnesty International so I guess I'm not as liberal as I thought.:scratch:

I think I joined the Sierra Club once.....and I give to the Humane Society!

:rock:

[Mosche]

I think that part of the problem is our two party system. I consider myself a social-liberal (i.e. women's rights, gay rights, equal protection clause, etc...); on the other hand, I consider myself a fiscal conservative (i.e. support consumption tax, hate welfare, support balanced-budget amendment, etc...). Thus, I'm a libertarian! In the U.S., unfortunately, a vote for the Libertarian Party is of little practical significance.

In the old days, being a Democrat was to side with Israel. Today, however, the Dems. have sold out to the extreme left--a left that holds Israel responsible for all of the ills in the ME. The Republicans, on the other hand, have sought the support of Evangelical Christians and their philosemitism.

just my two pennies

[Yala]

I think that part of the problem is our two party system. I consider myself a social-liberal (i.e. women's rights, gay rights, equal protection clause, etc...); on the other hand, I consider myself a fiscal conservative (i.e. support consumption tax, hate welfare, support balanced-budget amendment, etc...). Thus, I'm a libertarian! In the U.S., unfortunately, a vote for the Libertarian Party is of little practical significance.

I'm with you Mosche!

In the old days, being a Democrat was to side with Israel. Today, however, the Dems. have sold out to the extreme left--a left that holds Israel responsible for all of the ills in the ME. The Republicans, on the other hand, have sought the support of Evangelical Christians and their philosemitism.

just my two pennies

I think it is a combination of things. On the left today, it is almost a knee-jerk reaction to be at least defending jihadists and this means they must also be anti-Israel. Our youth wasn't around at the time of Israel's founding. Neither was I but at least I took the time to read books to know what I'm talking about. Do you think most people on the left know that Jordan was part of the Palestinian Mandate? Do you think they know that Jordan and Egypt occupied Gaza and the WB? They don't even know the basics of this conflict. It's pretty sad.

[Mosche]

I'm with you Mosche!



I think it is a combination of things. On the left today, it is almost a knee-jerk reaction to be at least defending jihadists and this means they must also be anti-Israel. Our youth wasn't around at the time of Israel's founding. Neither was I but at least I took the time to read books to know what I'm talking about. Do you think most people on the left know that Jordan was part of the Palestinian Mandate? Do you think they know that Jordan and Egypt occupied Gaza and the WB? They don't even know the basics of this conflict. It's pretty sad.

Here, I agree with you--this is turning into a love fest!:rofl:

I had a student two semesters back--Jewish mother/Christian father--who thought that Israel won its independence in the Six Days War!

[Y. Shulamith]

What I've noted the most about younger people today is that they have a strong herd mentality and want to "fit in" with their peers more than any kids I've ever seen before. Individuality doesn't seem to rank very high with these folks. I think that because perhaps, families have fallen apart, that kids are more like youth following the youth, are like the blind following the blind, they both fall into the pit. In any event, it will take lots more years of education/and/or maturity before the youth of today can be circumspect about just about anything. Might makes right and not much more of anything else.

[Mosche]

Individuality doesn't seem to rank very high with these folks. I think that because perhaps, families have fallen apart, that kids are more like youth following the youth, are like the blind following the blind, they both fall into the pit.

Also a very interesting observation!

[thatisraelgirl]

I agree with Yala about the lack of education and information on the left. What I find scary is the propaganda coming from some of the Palestinian leaders on the West Bank, particularly the ones hogging media time on CNN. They DO know the right history but they choose to flood the media with calculated misinformation--all of it anti-Israel of course. The PR hit job that's been done to assasinate the Jewish State is a force to contend with. But in the end I think we'll win the media war. We'll prevail on all fronts!

[Yala]

It is also the fact that Israel itself doesn't have leaders that their own people respect. How can anyone outside Israel respect leaders such as Olmert, Livni, etc? When I see pictures of Olmert with world leaders he always has a huge smile while the other leaders have serious expressions. It's as if these morons are trying to prove something to the rest of the world. The only thing they are proving is that they have no self respect.

[Fall]

In the old days, being a Democrat was to side with Israel. Today, however, the Dems. have sold out to the extreme left--a left that holds Israel responsible for all of the ills in the ME. The Republicans, on the other hand, have sought the support of Evangelical Christians and their philosemitism.



Eh, i don'r really believe either side is against Israel. Joe Biden himself has said "I am a zionist, you don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAZmO80dLfE
So don't worry about Obama being "the death of Israel". Holding a country to it's faults is more patriotic then letting go crazy with power imo (No i'm not saying Israel is crazy with power, nor am i saying it's free of fault). Was the Democratic vote appealing to the Jewish vote because they shared a common struggle, or was it more support my cause, i'll support Israel? Politicians after all can't do anything without votes.

[Brody15]

I think the problem regarding Israel and the left, at least in America, is that the left is far more interested in fighting the right, rather than the evils of the world. Reagan=bad no comment on communism. Israel=bad, no comment on Jihad. Bush=bad no comment on terrorism.

It's so much easier to be angry at something that is relatively benign than to face the true evils of the world.

Every kid hates their parents at some point just like every liberal hates Republicans or Bush, Reagan, etc.

[Tonto]

What I've noted the most about younger people today is that they have a strong herd mentality and want to "fit in" with their peers more than any kids I've ever seen before. Individuality doesn't seem to rank very high with these folks. I think that because perhaps, families have fallen apart, that kids are more like youth following the youth, are like the blind following the blind, they both fall into the pit. In any event, it will take lots more years of education/and/or maturity before the youth of today can be circumspect about just about anything. Might makes right and not much more of anything else.

Dude, Ya got that right!!! Some of these kids are so specialized already. They are pure genius about some things but don't have a clue about how to handle living. The boys are a lot more "girly" them we were in my day too. I wonder though if "fitting in" wasn't a good deal of our culture all along...as in human beings being a variety of herd animal. I think it's these things that are undetectable for a person unless they leave the culture for a bit and then return. Jumping between 2 cultures for a while when I was a kid was kind of tough for me for a time until I learned to compartmentalize them. I think much of the super liberal stuff I saw in college was part hero worship of professors and part "fitting into the group of peers". I felt forced to do my chameleon act to get close enough to the poontang to pounce in college.:rofl:

[Y. Shulamith]

I think the problem regarding Israel and the left, at least in America, is that the left is far more interested in fighting the right, rather than the evils of the world. Reagan=bad no comment on communism. Israel=bad, no comment on Jihad. Bush=bad no comment on terrorism.

It's so much easier to be angry at something that is relatively benign than to face the true evils of the world.

Every kid hates their parents at some point just like every liberal hates Republicans or Bush, Reagan, etc.

I am still not enamoured with either Reagan or Bush Sr or Jr.,:rock: truth to tell.....Carter was an abomination, but Reagan did his best to destroy unions, the safeguards in banking and investing that lead to the present debacle through de-regulation, not to mention arming the Afgans and leaving the toys there for them to use against us. Yes, he bankrupted the Russians but now, we too have been bankrupted.

George and George, I'd rather not get into.......

[RRuth]

I don't believe the USA will allow any terrorist nonsense within the USA.....what the future brings, who knows, but for now, the USA is giving a very short stick to any kind of terrorism that unfolds.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/shell_fort_dix.html

"Allow" is the key word. I've seen many videos about 911 that points that it was an inside job. (I do NOT believe Israel had anything to do with it.)

I worked the Gallup Poll the day after the towers crumbled. We interviewed America with this question:

Would you be willing to give up your freedoms for the sake of SECURITY?

The majority of Americans said, YES.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin

Ruth

[Brody15]

I am still not enamoured with either Reagan or Bush Sr or Jr.,:rock: truth to tell.....Carter was an abomination, but Reagan did his best to destroy unions, the safeguards in banking and investing that lead to the present debacle through de-regulation, not to mention arming the Afgans and leaving the toys there for them to use against us. Yes, he bankrupted the Russians but now, we too have been bankrupted.

George and George, I'd rather not get into.......

If you and I could talk about the above issues without you wanting to strangle me, you're not a far lefty.:p

[Toadstool46]

I hate to say it but the only way Israel is going to have a reprieve from the rockets in Gaza is to take it back.

Seriously. It was given to the Arabs with hesitation due to the forsight that it would be used as a launch site for terror.

Well....... Now it is a launch site for terror.

So... to remove the situation, Israel says to the world... " Stop the aggression from the Gaza Strip or we will take it back,,,, we give you one week. After that.... if we see one rocket... we will take back the Gaza strip. "

What have they got to lose. Even protecting themselves causes the blind radicals to hate them.

So pull out the plug and take back their security. And remember for the furture that giving land for peace is a smoke and mirrors scam.

[Reesale]

Brody15,

You are SO right.

and Toadstool, i like your idea. But if israel did re'occupy' Gaza the problems wouldn't end. They would have to get rid of Hamas somehow, undo the indoctrination etc. The only way they could do that would be with violence.

And you know how the world looks at that...

At some point you need to take into account what the other Arab countries will think/do/say and who will risk being our allies.

[Mediocrates]

And do what? Take back Gaza? Insane and pointless. There's a million people there to manage. For what? Better to spend all that money and effort making a good faith effort at resettling the families they already ejected.

Gaza is a lost cause, it's a wasteland. You should make it the Gazans problem to fix or not. Give them a realistic drop dead date for when Israel no longer will provide infrastructure services. Sign a treaty (that Hamas will reject) stipulating to the smallest detail how each of the crossing points will be used. Spend another pile of shekels on the best practical anti-rocket system possible and sell it to any other community in the world who can use it and afford it. And call it a day. Gaza = Somalia.

[Tonto]

Reesale, Toadstool, I got an idea. What IF Israel did a bit of a tactical change in dealing with the hamas thugs and hezbulla retards? They IDF has responded to attacks by enduring until world opinion and civilian patience is at a certain pitch, and then attacks in a classical military manner. Let's change that. Let's go to special force infiltrations, select target assassinations, select target bombings, ninja terror, night time infiltrations into bedrooms complete with throat slittings and other fun stuff like that. WOW, kidnap children, old people, women. Civilians only. Kill any able bodied males at random. Set fires. Sounds ugly, but it IS war. There are people that do that, quite handily, and enjoy it, so why not? Now there's a few things that would put a pucker in the right place. I really do think that that type of tactical change would be very effective.

[Mediocrates]

Lob an M107 155mm artillery HEAT shell into Gaza at random.

[Brody15]

What if Gaza is handed over to Fatah. Let them fight HAMAS. And a regime change in Iran and Syria is probably needed too. And a regime in Lebanon that can resist Iran and Hezbollah.

[Tonto]

Lob an M107 155mm artillery HEAT shell into Gaza at random.

Too random. True terror is focused, deadly, middle of the night and in the place you feel safest. It must PROVE that my finger will find you and kill you.

[thatisraelgirl]

And do what? Take back Gaza? Insane and pointless. There's a million people there to manage. For what? Better to spend all that money and effort making a good faith effort at resettling the families they already ejected.

Gaza is a lost cause, it's a wasteland. You should make it the Gazans problem to fix or not. Give them a realistic drop dead date for when Israel no longer will provide infrastructure services. Sign a treaty (that Hamas will reject) stipulating to the smallest detail how each of the crossing points will be used. Spend another pile of shekels on the best practical anti-rocket system possible and sell it to any other community in the world who can use it and afford it. And call it a day. Gaza = Somalia.

Concur! Especially on the need for anti-rocket systems.