Obama's Cowardly Iran Policy

[maven]

First the Brits who laughed at German bombs in the second world war capitulated to European Liberal cowardice and now the US has joined in under Obama.

The rock of George W. Bush no longer stands firm against our enemies worldwide and the world is a more dangerous place under the current US liberal/European left value system which favours the human rights of the enemy over our own national security:

.

~The iron logic of our current nightmare~
Thursday, 19th March 2009

Melanie Phillip writes:

In the Washington Times, Roger Chapin is one of the few who is thinking logically and rationally about Iran. And that leads him to conclude that Iran, which thinks logically and rationally about its wholly irrational aims and interests, will most likely carry out a pre-emptive strike against the US – unless it is stopped:

Roger Chapin:
"Unwittingly, our president is taking a hugely unwarranted risk by offering to negotiate with the Iranians while having publicly proclaimed that we cannot allow them to have nuclear weapons. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will necessarily have to assume that once it becomes fully apparent Iran won't voluntarily abandon its nuclear quest, the United States will launch a pre-emptive strike. And if not, Israel certainly will.

So consider this: Just as the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor while negotiating with the United States, the Iranians themselves launch a pre-emptive EMP attack on the United States before negotiations totally break down. But the real wild card in all this is Israel, for even if neither we nor the Iranians do anything, Israel has no other rational choice than to eliminate Iran’s nuclear facilities. Remember, Mr. Ahmadinejad has already said he would ‘wipe out’ Israel if he had nukes.

And given Israel's warnings to Iran and its prior attacks on Iraqi and Syrian nuclear targets, Iran will very likely try and nuke Israel first, especially with the very hawkish Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now in charge. If so, the United States would presumably ‘obliterate Iran,’ as Hillary Clinton earlier pledged. This makes an Iranian pre-emptive EMP attack on the United States all the more likely.

For those that wonder why Iran would invite its own obliteration by attacking the United Sates, understand that the apocalyptic, messianically driven mentality of their leadership views martyrdom as a reward and not a deterrent. As a practical matter, however, Iran’s leadership would very likely survive a U.S. retaliatory attack, as would the great majority of their 70 million people. The Iranians, with their relatively low-tech society, would in many ways likely come out in much better shape than would the United States. And most important to the mullahs, we would then be incapable of displacing their regime.

So from their leadership’s horribly warped perspective, Iran’s the winner.

Since the US, cheered on by Britain and Europe, has now set its face against pre-emptive self-defence and instead now does pre-emptive surrender, it would appear that civilisation and humanity will be the loser.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3457201/the-iron-logic-of-our-current-nightmare.thtml

[Sharona]

I read the comments on another of Melanie's blog pages where similar outcomes were discussed, although without factoring in the USA.

A few comments suggested that the landmasses of Israel and Iran should be taken into account. Iran is a much larger country that could take what would be just a few hits from Israel; a 'few' because if Iran had nuclear capability, that's all it would take to follow through on its promise to wipe Israel off the map.

I suppose much depends on how much real control Ahmadinejad has. Or to what degree those behind him agree with his aims.

[Toadstool46]

Obama is a genious. Don't underestimate this man.

He may not be doing things in the best interests of Israel, USA or the world but he is looking out for Number One as they say.... He is driving for the position of the leader of a one world government.

The economic situation in the good old USA is in a state of emergency. One of the only ways to get it back on track is to set up a world bank system. With the rest of the major countries in the world joining in the US situation could be absorbed and the wealth redistributed throughout the world..

People will be asked and then told to be chipped and thus their financial dealings can be controled by the world bank. No money, No credit cards, no bank cards, no debit machines, no roberies.

They can track your movements, your purchases, your income. Then comes the one world government.

He is a man with Muslim background but confessing to be Christian. Oil and Water.

A genious... maybe an evil genious of the magnitude of 90% of the childrens cartoons where one evil genious persues world domination, world control, mooouuuuuhahahahahaha. "I'm gunna control the world".

Watch this guy. He is dangerous.

[Mason]

He is a man with Muslim background but confessing to be Christian. Oil and Water.Even in one of his books, he states that his stepfather was both Muslim and a Communist.

I guess that would have never made an effect on his worldview :scratch:

[maven]

No, I really don't think Obama is in the slightest anti-Semitic, marxist or pro-Muslim. But I do fear he may be ignorant of foreign policy and at the mercy of liberal advisors.

[bararallu]

He's no more or less than a speaking automaton.

[Mason]

He's no more or less than a speaking automaton.I was pretty sure he was just going to be a mere puppet for the Democratic Party leaders in the background, but I'm not so sure now. :|

[bararallu]

I was pretty sure he was just going to be a mere puppet for the Democratic Party leaders in the background, but I'm not so sure now. :|

What make you think that? I think he's pretty vain (all his photos look like hes really full of himself, kinda like Carter), but his Veep IMO is running the ideological backbone of the Admin. Here is one litmus test: priority to enforce DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management) for Hollywood. DRM is definitely not "progressive politics."

[Mason]

What make you think that? I think he's pretty vain (all his photos look like hes really full of himself, kinda like Carter), but his Veep IMO is running the ideological backbone of the Admin. Here is one litmus test: priority to enforce DRM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management) for Hollywood. DRM is definitely not "progressive politics."Just the fact that the entire Democratic Party leadership practically threw the entire fate of the party at his feet, they couldn't have done it for nothing :|

[Y. Shulamith]

I'm starting to think that Iran is all talk; they are just foaming at mouth about Jews and such in order to keep their citizenry in line. Saddam Hussein, on the other hand, actually did invade Kuwait. Maybe that's why he actually got what was coming to him.

I think that the leaders of Iran are all mouth and so long as they just keep mouthing off, the status quo will prevail.

Of course, I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me. If they really wanted to try to take a potshot at the Jews destroy Israel, they could just send an army in, like the Egyptians did (and get wiped out while doing it, too).

They just need to keep the blah blah rhetoric going, so's to keep the idiots in their country in line with the mullahs.

[Toadstool46]

If they really wanted to try to take a potshot at the Jews destroy Israel, they could just send an army in, like the Egyptians did (and get wiped out while doing it, too).


You are exactly right. They can not march in with an army with out being wiped out. Thats why they have to send a weapon of mass destruction.

Even smaller missles will not work because they don't do enough damage and Israel would have the worlds backing to retalieate.

I don't believe it is all talk.... It is Irans only chance... hit once and hit big or don't hit at all.

Israel has to stop this now.

The US following Obama's plan to snub Israel and talk to Iran and the Hamas is going to do one thing......

Bring the US to its knees.

[CLL1709]

So, since the power that is banned Steven for being consistantly against Islam I can't imagine what else is afoot. And the thread is closed off before I posted to it so you'll just have to bear with me while I say how very disappointed I am about this. Steven was an asset to this forum, and if whats his name, Andak01, is OK when he goes on his diatribes about how wonderful is Islam and it being the true religion, I think that deserves to be countered with the truth. Islam is a plague on the world.

Obama is a plague on the world as well. But especially on my country. Obviously I did not vote for him because he is a nothing. Charm is not what we need in a leader, and it is obvious he is not a leader. "The stock market is nothing more than a poll------" he says one day when my IRA and millions of others have tanked. He has little common sense, and is so much of the liberal mindset that he will not be able to comprehend the reality that he's ill thought words have great affect--or do at the moment. People will soon recongnize that he is out of his league in both finance and foreign policy and aside for the socialist agenda he has enbarked on, he has little to contribute. I hope some WISER heads in his administration will be able to control his mouth and actions. Liberals think that they can reason with enemies, and just can't seem to accept they can't until one of them shoots them between the eyes. And even then they rationalize that it is their own fault, theydidn't try hard enough, they didn't give enough. Sound familiar ISRAEL?

Obama is not the only one. Look at Pelosi and Reid. What a sorry bunch of traitors to the American dream. No hard work or taking responsibility for any of their constituents!!!! This is the only time since the Carter administration that I am truly worried that some of us will not survive the growing debacle.

Obama has no backbone. He is an idiot that was pushed through an ivy league education on affirmative action.

[Mediocrates]

April 15, 2009: Iran, like any other police state, has to be creative in finding ways to control troublesome foreign media. Iran has achieved a great deal of control over foreign news organizations by arresting and imprisoning female reporters. The most recent one arrested, Roxana Saberi had been working in the country for six years, reporting stories for NPR and BBC. These two news organizations have been more accommodating to the clerical dictatorship, than most. But there is so much wrong in Iran these days, that even NPR and the BBC will come up with stories that will offend some of the clerics, particularly the more radical ones.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htiw/articles/20090415.aspx

[Mediocrates]

April 16, 2009: The U.S. wants to withdraw its support for development of the Israeli Arrow anti-ballistic missile system. About half the $2 billion cost of developing Arrow has come from the United States. In addition, American firms have done some of the development work, or contributed technology. The U.S. wants to cut the several hundred million dollars it would be spending on future Arrow development, in order to save money, and allocate more resources to U.S. anti-missile systems (Aegis SM-3, THAAD and GBI). American support of Arrow was originally sort of an insurance policy, in case similar U.S. effort didn't work out.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htada/articles/20090416.aspx

[Mediocrates]

April 16, 2009: Boeing recently unveiled its newest 5th generation fighter the, F-15SE (Silent Eagle) which could well be a F-35 killer on the export market. The aircraft is essentially an F-15 with improved radar and avionics and a modified airframe to add stealth (resistance to radar detection). Conformal fuel tanks mounted underneath the airframe create two internal weapons bays. Each bay has two stores hard points; an upper swing out weapons rack and a lower trapeze with separate doors. The trapeze can carry a 1000 pound JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition) or an AIM-120 AMRAAM (Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile). The upper swing out weapon rack can be fitted with a rail to mount an AMRAAM or smaller AIM-9X Sidewinder missile. It also can be fitted with a 500 pound bomb. All four hard points can carry two SDBs (Small Diameter Bomb) each.
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20090416.aspx

[Tonto]

Too bad. With the Obamination's spending on trivia, this probably never be pursued as it should. The emphasis of the "Bama's Crib" and libtard Congress is to spend the US into bankruptcy so we become part of "The New World Order" rather than to actually defend America.

[Madeline]

He's no more or less than a speaking automaton.

BHO is not acting on his own, but is a puppet that is dangling on many strings. He won't make a move without obtaining permission first.
He will not upset his anti war supporters aa well as other financial and intellectual backers.
Israel is on her own on this one...Europe hasn't shown much of a backbone thus far.
The only hope might be some ME Countries who are themselves afraid of a Nuclear Iran.
The following might be of interest:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1239710718819&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[ArthurCrandall]

A lot of ron paul fans in here i see :rofl: Yeah hes bankrupting the country by scrapping idiotic missle defense systems. No defense is impenetrable. Eventually a cheap work around foils such money pits.

For example, launch a bunch of dummy rockets. Missle defense system then gets overwhelmed and fails. TaDa!

In the end, the most secure form of defense is either MAD or a comprehensive peace treaty. Most likely both.

[Mil]

By Arthur:

For example, launch a bunch of dummy rockets. Missle defense system then gets overwhelmed and fails. TaDa!

You an expert?

In the end, the most secure form of defense is either MAD or a comprehensive peace treaty. Most likely both.

You an expert on peace treaties also? So, genius, tell us.... why is Iran so obsessed with Israel?

[ArthurCrandall]

By Arthur:

For example, launch a bunch of dummy rockets. Missle defense system then gets overwhelmed and fails. TaDa!

You an expert?

In the end, the most secure form of defense is either MAD or a comprehensive peace treaty. Most likely both.

You an expert on peace treaties also? So, genius, tell us.... why is Iran so obsessed with Israel?

a)Uhh that is the general way to make a missle defense system useless. Hide real warheads amongst a thousand missles tipped with warheads. ugh google it. I'm more of an expert on this then you are it seems since i know how to use google.

b) Israel is more absessed with iran then vice versa. Don't kid yourself slowpoke.

[Mil]

Posted by Arthur:

a)Uhh that is the general way to make a missle defense system useless. Hide real warheads amongst a thousand missles tipped with warheads. ugh google it. I'm more of an expert on this then you are it seems since i know how to use google.

Thousands of warheads.... Multiple war head missiles were invented back in the 60s.


b) Israel is more absessed with iran then vice versa. Don't kid yourself slowpoke.

Really? Tell us how so I, an uneducated non-googling person, would know as well.

[Y. Shulamith]

Obama is not an idiot; he know's what he is doing and will make the Muslim nation puppets on a string before too long.....

[bararallu]

Israel is more absessed
yeah absessed :lol:

[ThetaRay]

"he know's what he is doing and will make the Muslim nation puppets on a string before too long..... "

Even if he does become their best friend, do you really think Iran will give up their nuclear program- I don't see Obama as the greatest mediator; unfortunately, I don't see him taking any effective action after his diplomatic attemps fail either.

[bararallu]

I think when he gets his face proverbially "slapped," he will retreat into total isolationism. He'll use the economy as a justification.

[ThetaRay]

"I don't see him taking any effective action after his diplomatic attemps fail either. " --me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think when he gets his face proverbially "slapped," he will retreat into total isolationism. He'll use the economy as a justification. --you


I think we are in agreement, lol

[redcake]

Look, let's be honest. Obama has taken on the role of enabling Iran's nuclear program. Even if the US were to take action now, they've adopted the idea that it's to keep Israel, and only Israel safe, to meet the irrational paranoia of Israel, and only Israel.

If one is to believe the Haaretz summation of Israel's options for a maneuver it's clear that the US has made any preventative strikes near impossible. Israel can not do it without US cooperation. Unless Israel can get the cooperation of India or another closer border to make up for the US reluctance to use Iraq as a staging ground, then this is a huge trap to get Israel to take action so it can be blamed for starting the large scale war Arab nations have been hungry for. Thanks to Obama, a nuclear Iran will exist.

[Yala]

To be fair, we can also blame George Bush. Ariel Sharon identified Iran as the bigger threat.

[redcake]

We can blame Bush for a lot, but at least with Iran he made it a US priority by placing them on the axis of evil list. It wasn't treated like some side annoyance to placate the Zionist lobby, it was US policy to oppose Iranian nukes. Obama is scapegoating Israel. I don't recall Bush doing that.

[ThetaRay]

So that's it? UnderObama, Iran will go nuclear. I refuse to believe that Netanyahu will sit bak and watch that happen. This is Israel we are talking about!

[bararallu]

So that's it? UnderObama, Iran will go nuclear. I refuse to believe that Netanyahu will sit bak and watch that happen. This is Israel we are talking about!

watch it happen :rolleyes:.

The operational logistics are just daunting. Iran is a ways from Israel. The US controls Iraqi airspace, and if they don't clear the flight then the Israelis cant take a direct route through Jordan (which theoretically will sign on to this op). Alternatively there is Turkey, or there used to be- but our relations have badly soured in the last few months. I doubt they will sign on. I don't think there is another option. I don't think we have sub launchable cruse missiles. And even then there wouldn't be requisite ordinance on one or two missiles to do the job. I think India is a non starter at this point, aside from the fact that the Persian gulf/Arabian sea is heavily militarized. US/Nato ships are everywhere, as are the Arabs, Russians, Pakistanis and the Iranians. All with varying levels of anti aircraft capabilities.

[Mediocrates]

It seems that the US is willing to sacrifice a great deal of what it does not own in order to coo and stroke Iran and give them what they ask for. If I had to guess I'd say that Obama concluded long ago it wasn't worth it to try to stop Iran from acquiring or developing nuclear arms and now, somehow figures that having a stronger or even friendlier hand in that inevitable process will allow him to bend it to the purposes of American foreign policy. The problem though is that Iran isn't a reliable partner or perhaps not even a sane partner. On the other hand perhaps in the short term is makes more sense to help the Iranians bleed themselves dry constructing nuclear weapons. In the meantime the US is debating internally about delivering to Pakistan another 7 billion dollars to fight the Taliban while at the same time there is now a public discussion that perhaps upwards of 2 billion dollars we already gave them was diverted to the construction of 1 or 2 more fast plutonium reactors. Reactors which can ONLY be used for the enrichment of atomic fuel for weapons. Hence the wide disparity between 'official' figures for Pakistan's nuclear arsenal (35+) and current estimates (80-90). How many of those 35-90 weapons are functional and deployable though is anyone's guess.

It's doubtful that Pakistan has not helped in any way, Iranian efforts to develop nuclear weapons, but the degree of that assistance and the level of its usefulness is open to debate. Pakistan has/had one advantage over crazy-states like Iran or North Korea. Their scientists and engineers are mostly American trained and the culture of scientific development is less hampered by political ideology. Scientists aren't awarded projects based on their adherence to radical jihad or juche. So even were the Pakistanis to sell technology to Iran it's unknown what use Iran could make of it given the quality of the scientists they're able to use.

None the less, Obama's approach seems unfocused. Why give away so much for so little? What's in it for the US to give Iran a freer hand than they have now?

[ThetaRay]

This is CRAZY!!!! We have a lunatic religious regime running a country full of brainwashed citizens that wants nothing more than to wipe out Israel AND all western influence on it's culture, if not the west itself. We have ignored this because they have no credible means of achieving ANY of these. After successfully testing ONE nuke, we will have to cave into ALL of their demands- including issues dealing with oil, the one thing everyone HAS TO HAVE. This is lunacy. Someone has to stop them. Someone, pshh. Like the option is open to anyone but the US and or Israel.

Surely, SURELY, we are smarter than this. Do we dare allow a Shiite fundie Ayatollah have a nuke??? OH boy. OH BOY....

:stick: Come on Obama

[redcake]

It's no accident that two of the most influential figures in Obama's career, Rev. Wright, and Weathermen Bill Ayers, got together for an anti-Israel rally - timed for Netenyahu's meeting.

[Yala]

It's no accident that two of the most influential figures in Obama's career, Rev. Wright, and Weathermen Bill Ayers, got together for an anti-Israel rally - timed for Netenyahu's meeting.

Link?

It looks like Obama is selling out Israel for his new friend in the region, Iran(if they'll have him). They've got oil and Obama is a fake environmentalist, who is doing nothing to advance alternative energies.

[redcake]

"William Ayers, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. headline Mideast peace rally"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-ayers_wrightmay18,0,6689521.story