Diplomacy is now over; it's TIME FOR WAR

[second_coming]

Clearly, the fascist dictatorship of thugs and murderers that is the iranian government has no interest in anything but war and terrorism, so if there is ever to be peace in the middle east - and beyond, this regime MUST be immediately destroyed.

Since even the direct overtures of the leftist, "Obamessiah" were completely rejected by these War Criminals, then after 6 years of wasted time and failed diplomacy by the Europeans, 3 UNSC resolutions that carry the force of law, then there is no point to further discussions with them.

It is now time to obliterate the regime, its nuclear weapons program, military capabilities, and terrorist proxies throughout the middle east.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/03/21/world/AP-ML-Iran-Obama.html?_r=1&hp

March 21, 2009
Iran’s Supreme Leader Dismisses Obama Overtures

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 9:23 a.m. ET

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran's supreme leader rebuffed President Barack Obama's latest outreach on Saturday, saying Tehran was still waiting to see concrete changes in U.S. policy.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was responding to a video message Obama released Friday in which he reached out to Iran on the occasion of Nowruz, the Persian new year, and expressed hopes for an improvement in nearly 30 years of strained relations.

Khamenei holds the last word on major policy decisions, and how Iran ultimately responds to any concrete U.S. effort to engage the country will depend largely on his say.

In his most direct assessment of Obama and prospects for better ties, Khamenei said there will be no change between the two countries unless the American president puts an end to U.S. hostility toward Iran and brings ''real changes'' in foreign policy.

''They chant the slogan of change but no change is seen in practice. We haven't seen any change,'' Khamenei said in a speech before a crowd of tens of thousands in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad.

In his video message, Obama said the United States wants to engage Iran, but he also warned that a right place for Iran in the international community ''cannot be reached through terror or arms, but rather through peaceful actions that demonstrate the true greatness of the Iranian people and civilization.''

Khamenei asked how Obama could congratulate Iranians on the new year and accuse the country of supporting terrorism and seeking nuclear weapons in the same message.

Khamenei said there has been no change even in Obama's language compared to that of his predecessor.

''He (Obama) insulted the Islamic Republic of Iran from the first day. If you are right that change has come, where is that change? What is the sign of that change? Make it clear for us what has changed.''

Still, Khamenei left the door open to better ties with America, saying ''should you change, our behavior will change too.''

Diplomatic ties between the U.S. and Iran were cut after the U.S. Embassy hostage-taking after the 1979 Islamic Revolution, which toppled the pro-U.S. shah and brought to power a government of Islamic clerics.

The United States cooperated with Iran in late 2001 and 2002 in the Afghanistan conflict, but the promising contacts fizzled -- and were extinguished completely when Bush branded Tehran part of the ''Axis of Evil.''

Khamenei enumerated a long list of Iranian grievances against the United States over the past 30 years and said the U.S. was still interfering in Iranian affairs.

He mentioned U.S. sanctions against Iran, U.S. support for Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during his 1980-88 war against Iran and the downing of an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf in 1988.

He also accused the U.S. of provoking ethnic tension in Iran and said Washington's accusations that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons are a sign of U.S. hostility. Iran says its nuclear program is only for peaceful purposes, like energy production, not for building weapons.

''Have you released Iranian assets? Have you lifted oppressive sanctions? Have you given up mudslinging and making accusations against the great Iranian nation and its officials? Have you given up your unconditional support for the Zionist regime? Even the language remains unchanged,'' Khamenei said.

Khamenei, wearing a black turban and dark robes, said America was hated around the world for its arrogance, as the crowd chanted ''Death to America.''

Prominent political analyst Saeed Leilaz said Khamenei's comments did not amount to a rejection of better ties with the Obama administration. Rather, Iran's current hard-line leaders need to publicly maintain some degree of anti-U.S. rhetoric to bolster their own position, especially with their conservative base, he said.

''Iran's ruling Islamic establishment needs to lessen tensions with the U.S. and at the same time maintain a controlled animosity with Washington,'' he said. ''Iran can't praise Obama all of a sudden.''

Khamenei will also likely stand his ground as long as he remains concerned about the United States' ability to destabilize Iran, he said.

For its part, the Obama administration must take practical steps such as lifting a ban on selling Iran spare parts for passenger aircraft or considering unfreezing Iranian assets in the U.S., Leilaz said.

Obama has signaled a willingness to speak directly with Iran about its nuclear program and hostility toward Israel, a key U.S. ally. At his inauguration last month, the president said his administration would reach out to rival states, declaring ''we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.''

''They say we have stretched a hand toward Iran. ... If a hand is stretched covered with a velvet glove but it is cast iron inside, that makes no sense,'' Khamenei said.

[maven]

One can only hope that Obama's policy is "First make love to em' then whack em'!"

If he does all in his power to grovel to the mullocrats then bombs them, at least his bleeding heart liberal followers can claim that at least he tried to do something before becoming involved in "an illegal war using banned weapons." Apart from Cindi, Michael, Chumpsky and co he should salve the consciences of most of the Dems.

On the other hand as the attractive leader of the free world frankly has not got a clue about foreign or any other policy and relies completly on advisors, maybe Hillary will dig the old flag of surrender out of Bill's sock drawer and wave it as Iran puts the finishing touches to it's bomb.

After that it's the old "Go IAF!" routine. :unsure:

[Mediocrates]

Tehran aims to create Gaza missile base that can cover whole of central Israel

Alex Fishman

Iran (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284215,00.html) is in fact forcing a direct military confrontation upon Israel (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284752,00.html). We are not only talking about President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3385131,00.html%20) exaggerated verbal passion or the Iranian nuclear project. Thus far, Iran conducted a war of attrition against Israel via its emissaries: Hizbullah (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3284023,00.html%20), Hamas (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3377113,00.html), and other Palestinian groups. At this time, the war is reaching new peaks; it will be impossible to continue ignoring them while only engaging with the emissaries. Based on foreign reports, the Air Force bombed (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3693083,00.html) about two months ago, in Sudan, a shipment of medium-range rockets with a range of 70 kilometers (roughly 40 miles,) apparently the Fajar 3 model. This is not a small missile. In fact, it is a missile that the Iranians are manufacturing especially for the Gaza Strip, so that it can be dismantled to several pieces and smuggled in through the Gaza tunnels. This is also the way they produced the special Grad rockets for Gaza: Disassembled models, made in Iran, and designated for smuggling.

Making our life intolerable

The picture is becoming clearer: The Iranians are aiming to establish a rocket base south of Israel that would cover the entire Gush Dan area in central Israel from the south. This is not paranoia. The “tight grip theory,” namely, clasping the State of Israel from both the north and south, turns Iran into a concrete enemy, rather than a theoretical one. It would be impossible to keep blaming Hizbullah and Hamas all the time, sort of like looking for the money you lost under the streetlight because it is more convenient that way. The Iranians are not only investing in the unconventional realm, but also in the conventional field, in order to eliminate the State of Israel or at least in order to make life here intolerable.

[Mediocrates]

Iran to complete hospital that Israel started building in Mauritania http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/0.gif By Barak Ravid (barakravid80@gmail.com)

Just a few weeks after the Israeli ambassador to Mauritania was ordered to leave the country, with encouragement from Iran, the regime in Tehran is attempting to take control of a hospital for cancer research and treatment in the Mauritanian capital, which has symbolized relations between Jerusalem and Nouakchott.

Iran's Foreign Minister, Manouchehr Mottaki, visited Mauritania on Wednesday, marking the first such visit since 1982. Although the visit lasted only six hours it included a stop at the hospital known by locals as "the Israeli hospital."

The hospital project has been stalled since Mauritania severed relations with Israel earlier this month. There are reports that Iran paid the Mauritania government about $10 million to kick out the Israeli ambassador.

During his visit to the hospital, Mottaki promised that Iran will "replace" Israel and equip the hospital as needed. Mottaki praised the government of Mauritania for suspending relations with Israel, saying "Our enemies in the Middle East have reached the end of the road."

The hospital was initiated in 2000 by the Ministry of Health, which envisioned the establishment of an advanced center for cancer research and treatment in Mauritania. The project has gone through ups and downs and was stalled at various stages due to hesitation on the part of the Nouakchott government.

About nine months ago the project was kicked into high gear, following requests by the local government, and the pace of work was stepped up. An official inauguration ceremony was to have taken place within the next two months. Israel was to have sent over advanced medical equipment, including state-of-the-art X-ray machines, and a team of doctors was planning to travel to Mauritania to train local physicians in the treatment of cancer patients.

Several million shekels were spent on the project, which was funded partly by the Israeli government and partly by the American Jewish Committee.

"The aim was to build a medical center that would be a gift from the Jewish people to the Mauritanian people," a source involved with the project said. "What happened there with the Iranians is very regretful. There's no doubt that the Mauritanians acted out of spite."

[Mediocrates]

http://blog.z-word.com/2009/03/israel-and-iran-at-war/

1.
In case you had forgotten, I’ll remind you. Israel and Iran are at war. Any doubts about this should have been put to bed by the reports (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5993093.ece)of a series of airstrikes by Israel on Iranian arms convoys bound for Hamas as they passed through Sudan.

2.
Iran wants to squeeze Israel from the north through Hezbollah and from the south through Hamas. Hezbollah has already achieved a certain degree of deterrence against Israel on the northern front - and if enough missiles with enough range to hit Tel Aviv reach Hamas, then the same situation may arise in the south.
3.
Why Iran is doing this is not hard to divine. The mullahs want to put an end to Jewish self-government in the Middle East. They know that repeated attempts to defeat Israel on the battlefield have failed and have wisely decided to bypass its armed forces and instead focus on chipping away at its sovereignty by arming its proxies with weapons designed to terrorize its civilian population. If Iran gets its way, Israel will soon be expected to accept as normal a situation whereby every square meter of its national territory will be within range of either Hamas or Hezbollah rockets. Even if they are never fired, the normalization of the presence of rockets on Israel’s borders already represents a victory for Iran; no other state, regardless of its current or past crimes or errors, is expected to live with the muzzle of cocked pistol held against the side its head.
4.
Israel has no territorial claims against Iran and does not believe that ethnic Persians have no right to their own state, or that Iran really belongs to one of the Islamic Republic’s oppressed minorities. Israel does not believe that ethnic Persians have falsified major events in their own history in order to garner sympathy from the world or that ethnic Persians are manipulating the policies of governments throughout the world.
5.
Israel is 20,770 square kilometers in size and has a population of a bit more than seven million people. Iran is 1.648 million square kilometers in size and a population of more than 66 million people.
6.
In this war, victory for Iran would mean the destruction of a lawfully constituted state that came into being at the hand of the United Nations. As the Jews are unlikely to surrender their state without a fight, such a victory would certainly entail massive loss of human life. A victory for Israel would not have to involve the loss of a single life, it would be fully achieved if the Islamic Republic of Iran abandoned its ambitions to destroy Israel and decided to focus its energy and ingenuity on other projects.
7.
Netanyahu was right. Abandoning the Gaza Strip without making sure that it wouldn’t be governed by a regime willing to turn the territory into Iran’s most forward outpost in the struggle against it was a huge error on Israel’s part. Continuing the occupation of the territories captured from Jordan, Syria and Egypt in 1967 is wrong and has costs, but the wrong can’t be undone at the price of gifting a strategic advance to Iran while the costs of the occupation pale beside those of dealing with the ever greater rocket threat.
7.
What of the Palestinians? They must have their state. How soon that happens depends to a considerable degree on the progress of the war between Iran and Israel. As long as Iran remains set on its present course with regard to the world’s only state for Jews then it’s hard to see a Palestinian state becoming a reality.
8.
Iran grows ever closer (http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/wmd/Iran_has_enough_material_to_make_nuclear_bomb_US_a dmiral170017255.php)to acquiring nuclear weapons.
9.
Distinguished newspaper columnists assure us that there is nothing to worry about, that the mullahs are really a pragmatic bunch of chaps and that the real problem (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/23/opinion/l23cohen.html) is Israel’s bellicosity.

[Mediocrates]

Report: Israel Used UAVs to Attack Missile Convoys in Sudan
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/130654

by Yehudah Lev Kay

(IsraelNN.com) The London Sunday Times reported that the Israeli Air Force used Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) to carry out strikes on three Sudanese convoys carrying Iranian missiles destined for Hamas in Gaza. Sources also said that the convoys carried Fajr-3 missiles which have a range of 43 kilometers, capable of reaching Yavneh and Be’er Sheva.
According to “western diplomats”, Israel used Hermes 450 drones to carry out the attack. The planes, which operate out of the Palmachim air force base south of Tel Aviv, can remain in the air for 20 hours and fire two Hellfire missiles at ground targets. Some sources also claimed that Israel used the new Eitan UAV in the attack, which have a wingspan of 85 feet, comparable to that of a Boeing 737, and can remain in the air for 36 hours.
http://info.inn.co.il/info_en/tehilla-pilot-trip-new-banner-april09.jpg (http://info.inn.co.il/phpAdsNew-en-new/adclick.php?bannerid=2087&zoneid=17&clientid=1265&dest=http://www.tehilla.com/pilotTrips/registration.asp)
Defense sources told The Times that unmanned drones were used because of the nature of the targets. Whereas manned bombers could be used to attack a fixed target, UAVs are the ideal choice for a strike on a moving convoy. The drones can hover high in the air undetected for a long period of time until the ideal moment for an attack arrives.
The military sources also reported that the convoy was carrying an unspecified number of Iranian Fajr-3 missiles. “They build the Fajr in parts so it would be easy to smuggle them into Gaza, then reassemble them with Hamas experts who learned the job in Syrian and Iran,” one source said. Although the sources told The Times that the missiles could hit Tel Aviv and Israel’s nuclear facility in Dimona, traditional Fajr-3 missiles have an operational range of 43 kilometers, which would only reach as far north as Yavneh and as far east as Be’er Sheva.


CBS News first reported on the aerial strikes last week after which ABC News reported that Israel had carried out three separate strikes in January and February against missile convoys in Sudan which were headed for Gaza. The reports indicated that 39 people were killed in the attacks. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert hinted that Israel was indeed responsible for the bombings when he stated, “We operate in every area where terrorist infrastructures can be struck,” and added, “There is no point in elaborating. Everyone can use their imagination. Whoever needs to know, knows.”

[shravan]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece

Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

The Israeli military is preparing itself to launch a massive aerial assault on Iran's nuclear facilities within days of being given the go-ahead by its new government.

Among the steps taken to ready Israeli forces for what would be a risky raid requiring pinpoint aerial strikes are the acquisition of three Airborne Warning and Control (AWAC) aircraft and regional missions to simulate the attack.

Two nationwide civil defence drills will help to prepare the public for the retaliation that Israel could face.

“Israel wants to know that if its forces were given the green light they could strike at Iran in a matter of days, even hours. They are making preparations on every level for this eventuality. The message to Iran is that the threat is not just words,” one senior defence official told The Times.

Officials believe that Israel could be required to hit more than a dozen targets, including moving convoys. The sites include Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges produce enriched uranium; Esfahan, where 250 tonnes of gas is stored in tunnels; and Arak, where a heavy water reactor produces plutonium.

The distance from Israel to at least one of the sites is more than 870 miles, a distance that the Israeli force practised covering in a training exercise last year that involved F15 and F16 jets, helicopters and refuelling tankers.

The possible Israeli strike on Iran has drawn comparisons to its attack on the Osirak nuclear facility near Baghdad in 1981. That strike, which destroyed the facility in under 100 seconds, was completed without Israeli losses and checked Iraqi ambitions for a nuclear weapons programme.

“We would not make the threat [against Iran] without the force to back it. There has been a recent move, a number of on-the-ground preparations, that indicate Israel's willingness to act,” said another official from Israel's intelligence community.

He added that it was unlikely that Israel would carry out the attack without receiving at least tacit approval from America, which has struck a more reconciliatory tone in dealing with Iran under its new administration.

An Israeli attack on Iran would entail flying over Jordanian and Iraqi airspace, where US forces have a strong presence.

Ephraim Kam, the deputy director of the Institute for National Security Studies, said it was unlikely that the Americans would approve an attack.

“The American defence establishment is unsure that the operation will be successful. And the results of the operation would only delay Iran's programme by two to four years,” he said.

A visit by President Obama to Israel in June is expected to coincide with the national elections in Iran — timing that would allow the US Administration to re-evaluate diplomatic resolutions with Iran before hearing the Israeli position.

“Many of the leaks or statements made by Israeli leaders and military commanders are meant for deterrence. The message is that if [the international community] is unable to solve the problem they need to take into account that we will solve it our way,” Mr Kam said.

Among recent preparations by the airforce was the Israeli attack of a weapons convoy in Sudan bound for militants in the Gaza Strip.

“Sudan was practice for the Israeli forces on a long-range attack,” Ronen Bergman, the author of The Secret War with Iran, said. “They wanted to see how they handled the transfer of information, hitting a moving target ... In that sense it was a rehearsal.”

Israel has made public its intention to hold the largest-ever nationwide drill next month.

Colonel Hilik Sofer told Haaretz, a daily Israeli newspaper, that the drill would “train for a reality in which during war missiles can fall on any part of the country without warning ... We want the citizens to understand that war can happen tomorrow morning”.

Israel will conduct an exercise with US forces to test the ability of Arrow, its US-funded missile defence system. The exercise would test whether the system could intercept missiles launched at Israel.

“Israel has made it clear that it will not tolerate the threat of a nuclear Iran. According to Israeli Intelligence they will have the bomb within two years ... Once they have a bomb it will be too late, and Israel will have no choice to strike — with or without America,” an official from the Israeli Defence Ministry said.

[Viv]

Doesn't this carry risk for Israel?

Russia won't like it.

It will cause unpopularity for Israel with the other surrounding states.

Why should Israel take this step when the US and other potential targets have the same responsibility to deal with the Iranian issue as Israel does?

People may say Israel is acting on behalf of the US...

[shravan]

Iran signed the NPT.

[bararallu]

People may say Israel is acting on behalf of the US...

Those people don't need any excuses.

[takeo]

Doesn't this carry risk for Israel?

Russia won't like it.

It will cause unpopularity for Israel with the other surrounding states.

Why should Israel take this step when the US and other potential targets have the same responsibility to deal with the Iranian issue as Israel does?

People may say Israel is acting on behalf of the US...

Israel won't unilaterally attack Israel, only in their wet dreams, because the US won't allow it. The US is looking for better relations with Iran.
1) A unilateral Israeli attack will provoke retaliation, with many Israeli casualties as a result.
2) Israeli jets will have to fly over Arab countries, which won't give their permission and might target them. Countries like Iraq and Syria are Iranian allies. It might escalate in a general war, a nightmare scenario for the US.
3) Israel can't occupy Iran, it can bomb Iran but Iran can bomb Israel too... they even have rockets capable of reaching Israel, the Shahab-3
4) Iran during last years seriously upgrated their airdefense, with Russian help.
5) It will rally Iranians behind the regime. Directly fighting Israel will give Iran a lot of standing in the islamic and Arab world, and increase its influence.

And why is diplomacy over? All khamenei said is that he wants to see real change, real steps.

[Mil]

Iran during last years seriously upgrated their airdefense, with Russian help.

No - not really. Most of Iran's air-defenses are pretty ancient - as is its air-force. Israel would have no problem infiltrating Iranian airspace. In fact Israeli planes would not even have to be in Israeli airspace to bomb Iran - the same as was done in Syria.

In any case Israel will not bomb Iran for the simple reason that it would have to fly over Iraq - and Iraq is occupied by the United States. This means that Israel would need to get permission from the US to do this... meaning that it would be as much American decision as it would be Israeli. Now America would definitely detect Israeli planes.

In any case - if Israel bombs Iran and bombs it successfully it would be a huge blow to Iran's prestige.

[shravan]

Israel won't unilaterally attack Israel, only in their wet dreams, because the US won't allow it. The US is looking for better relations with Iran.

Iran signed the NPT.

1) A unilateral Israeli attack will provoke retaliation, with many Israeli casualties as a result.

Iran is a legitimate Military target.

2) Israeli jets will have to fly over Arab countries, which won't give their permission and might target them. Countries like Iraq and Syria are Iranian allies. It might escalate in a general war, a nightmare scenario for the US.

They will. Iran is a Shia Majority country.


3) Israel can't occupy Iran,

Did you read somewhere Israel is going to occupy Iran.

it can bomb Iran but Iran can bomb Israel too... they even have rockets capable of reaching Israel, the Shahab-3

In that case, America is already prepared for that.


4) Iran during last years seriously upgrated their airdefense, with Russian help.

The IAF pilots will not return back to Israel.


5) It will rally Iranians behind the regime. Directly fighting Israel will give Iran a lot of standing in the islamic and Arab world, and increase its influence.


Sunni have a historical position as the leading champions of Islam and Inheritors of the Prophet Mohamed. Shias want to topple the Sunni position. If Iran is successful then the oil fields will disappear from the Sunni hands.

--------

Do you know who was the Israel's main supplier of oil after the 1967 war ?

Ummah = Hot Air.......:D

[shravan]

Old Article.
----Issue of 2006-04-17----
Article Outlines U.S. Plans to Bomb Iran
he Bush administration is looking at how a U.S. bombing campaign may lead to a regime change in Iran, according to a new article by Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker. "The Iran Plans: Would President Bush Go to War to Stop Tehran from Getting the Bomb?" appears in the April 17 issue.

Hersh says that his sources at the Pentagon have said the Bush administration is looking at how a U.S. bombing campaign may lead to a regime change in Iran.

Monday at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, President Bush was asked whether the United States would allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons. He said the United States does not want the Iranians to have a nuclear weapon, or the capacity or knowledge to acquire one.

Adding that other countries agree with Washington on Iran, the president said the international community will work together, citing "the doctrine of prevention." Bush dismissed as "wild speculation" the idea that the United States already has a plan to attack Iran.
------------------
Complete Article.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2224

Good Read ^

[takeo]

shravan

Iran signed the NPT.

So?

Iran is a legitimate Military target.

Why? If Iran is, so is Israel...



They will. Iran is a Shia Majority country.

So is Iraq, and Syria is an ally of Iran.




Did you read somewhere Israel is going to occupy Iran.

No, they can't. But if they just bomb Iran, they should expect some bombs in the other direction as well...



In that case, America is already prepared for that.

If Israel attacks Iran without US support, than I don't think the US will intervene. Besides, if Israel attacks Iran, than Iran has the right to attack Israel, right?





Sunni have a historical position as the leading champions of Islam and Inheritors of the Prophet Mohamed. Shias want to topple the Sunni position. If Iran is successful then the oil fields will disappear from the Sunni hands.

Thanks to the US, there are now two shia-ruled countries already, Iran and Iraq.


Do you know who was the Israel's main supplier of oil after the 1967 war ?

Yes, but I don't think that goona be the case this time...

Besides, why attack Iran? Why start a dangerous war that can escalate and potentially cause millions of death? Wasn't Iraq enough? Because Ahmadinejad is talking BS?
I have much more confidence in Obama solving this issue with Iran.

[shravan]

So?

They could withdraw from the NPT but they haven't which makes them a legal target.

Why? If Iran is, so is Israel...

How? Israel has not signed NPT.



So is Iraq, and Syria is an ally of Iran.
Iraq an ally of Iran ? Are you sure.

Syria-Iran - marriage of convenience.


No, they can't. But if they just bomb Iran, they should expect some bombs in the other direction as well...

Iran is sandwiched between Iraq & Afghanistan.

If Israel attacks Iran without US support, than I don't think the US will intervene. Besides, if Israel attacks Iran, than Iran has the right to attack Israel, right?

NPT. America would invade Iran...;)


Thanks to the US, there are now two shia-ruled countries already, Iran and Iraq.


Good for us. No more OPEC Blackmail...:clap:


Yes, but I don't think that goona be the case this time...

Besides, why attack Iran? Why start a dangerous war that can escalate and potentially cause millions of death? Wasn't Iraq enough? Because Ahmadinejad is talking BS?

Are u saying Ahmadinejad should have Nuclear Bombs. Are you sure.

I have much more confidence in Obama solving this issue with Iran.
Obama has to take action. He is trying Diplomacy if that does not work he has to take action.

[Mediocrates]

Dear god this sounds like one of those insipid Sy Hersh columns that promises, PROMISES, that the US absolutely, positively, bet the house, is going to bomb Iran tomorrow morning 8 am sharp, columns. Except that he's been wrong each and every one of the last 1500 straight days he's made those predictions.

Oh - no more Bush you say, ah yes it's all part of the secret Jew plan - absolutely 1 billion percent certain ISRAEL will bomb the hell out of Iran tomorrow at dawn. It's a dead lock. Or the day after that and every single day for the next 4 years.

What a fat lot of retarded nonsense all of this is.

[shravan]

What a fat lot of retarded nonsense all of this is.

We are not talking here about when Israel or America is going to attack Iran.

I am saying Iran is a legitimate military target till it withdraws from NPT.

[takeo]

shravan

They could withdraw from the NPT but they haven't which makes them a legal target.

of course not. So far, Iran has not done anything illegal, using nuclear technology for civilian use is not illegal, even the Obama-administration recognised that.



How? Israel has not signed NPT.

Nor has North Korea, so does it mean it's ok for North Korea to have nukes?




Iraq an ally of Iran ? Are you sure.

Yes. The current and former presidents and prime ministers all stayed in Iran for extended periods of time, as was their party based in Teheran. today, ties between Iraq and Iran are better than ever before. They share the same shiite islamist ideology.



Syria-Iran - marriage of convenience.

That's true but still allies.




Iran is sandwiched between Iraq & Afghanistan.

That's right, and that's one other reason why expanding the war to Iran is NOT a good idea...


Good for us. No more OPEC Blackmail...:clap:

Why? Do you think Iran is pro-American or what?




Are u saying Ahmadinejad should have Nuclear Bombs. Are you sure.

No, but there are other ways than bloodshet, diplomacy, engaging Iran, offering incentives, accepting that they have the right to use nuclear technology for civilian use.




Obama has to take action. He is trying Diplomacy if that does not work he has to take action.


Yes, and that's good, and I think he will succeed.

[takeo]

We are not talking here about when Israel or America is going to attack Iran.

I am saying Iran is a legitimate military target till it withdraws from NPT.

So what you are suggesting to Ahmadinejad is that Iran should withdraw from NPT?

[takeo]

Dear god this sounds like one of those insipid Sy Hersh columns that promises, PROMISES, that the US absolutely, positively, bet the house, is going to bomb Iran tomorrow morning 8 am sharp, columns. Except that he's been wrong each and every one of the last 1500 straight days he's made those predictions.

Oh - no more Bush you say, ah yes it's all part of the secret Jew plan - absolutely 1 billion percent certain ISRAEL will bomb the hell out of Iran tomorrow at dawn. It's a dead lock. Or the day after that and every single day for the next 4 years.

What a fat lot of retarded nonsense all of this is.

It seems you are waiting in excitement for another war...

[shravan]

[QUOTE]of course not. So far, Iran has not done anything illegal, using nuclear technology for civilian use is not illegal, even the Obama-administration recognised that.


A.Q. Khan ?


China reveals Iran's nuclear secrets to UN
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583682/China-reveals-Irans-nuclear-secrets-to-UN.html



Nor has North Korea, so does it mean it's ok for North Korea to have nukes?

North Korea withdrew in 2003. India, Pakistan have not signed NPT.




Yes. The current and former presidents and prime ministers all stayed in Iran for extended periods of time, as was their party based in Teheran. today, ties between Iraq and Iran are better than ever before. They share the same shiite islamist ideology.


Maybe now.


That's right, and that's one other reason why expanding the war to Iran is NOT a good idea...

Why.


Why? Do you think Iran is pro-American or what?

No. America has already broken the OPEC control.




No, but there are other ways than bloodshet, diplomacy, engaging Iran, offering incentives, accepting that they have the right to use nuclear technology for civilian use.

Check my first reply.



Yes, and that's good, and I think he will succeed.

Good for Iran.

[shravan]

So what you are suggesting to Ahmadinejad is that Iran should withdraw from NPT?

They haven't which makes them a legal target....;)

[ArthurCrandall]

They haven't which makes them a legal target....;)

Actually the plant that is under construction was agreed upon and started construction under the shah. It was then resumed many years later under the same agreement.

Everything else you post is utter nonsense. America won't invade iran for israel except in your fantasy. Iran has a population of 72 million and has survived worse wars then israel has had. Iran also controls both economic and real weapons of mass destruction. It can virtually destroy the worlds economy and also cause the starvation of millions through the Strait of Hormuz. It also can mobilize up to a million soldiers. Not to mention the arsenal of current missles that instead of nuke warheads could easily be replaced with much easier to obtain biological or chemical warheads that most nations in the world already have.

America will be damned if israel drags them into another war in an area that they already want to get the hell out of. Losing your last staunch ally in the world is not a good thing.

This is suicidal and idiotic in so many ways. Unless you advocate for world war 3 and a new darkage then continue spouting this insanity. Otherwise, you should sit down and read a book. You are extremely ignorant.

[bararallu]

America will be damned if israel drags them into another war in an area that they already want to get the hell out of. Losing your last staunch ally in the world is not a good thing.

Do tell Aurthur, what other wars has Israel dragged the US into, in the area?

[ArthurCrandall]

Do tell Aurthur, what other wars has Israel dragged the US into, in the area?

You misread just like you do everything you read. The usa is currently in 2 wars. A war with IRAN is another war. Please comment on everything else i said. Please!

[bararallu]

You misread just like you do everything you read. The usa is currently in 2 wars. A war with IRAN is another war. Please comment on everything else i said. Please!

Misread? Perhaps you mis-stated, I however dont think so. I think you said what you thought and intended which is in line with current demonification of Israel, "the cabal," "the lobby," "the Rothchildes" and the rest of the stiff necked Jews, Arthur. So why don't you just save us some time and tell us exactly what wars Israel has dragged American into, per:

America will be damned if israel drags them into another war in an area that they already want to get the hell out of.

[Mil]

AND NOW... From North Carolina... #23..... Point Guard.....

[shravan]

Actually the plant that is under construction was agreed upon and started construction under the shah. It was then resumed many years later under the same agreement.

So. They have signed the NPT.

Civilian nuclear power program is explicitly allowed under the terms of the NPT.


China reveals Iran's nuclear secrets to UN
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583682/China-reveals-Irans-nuclear-secrets-to-UN.html



America won't invade iran for israel except in your fantasy.

:rolleyes:

Iran has a population of 72 million and has survived worse wars then israel has had. Iran also controls both economic and real weapons of mass destruction.



It can virtually destroy the worlds economy and also cause the starvation of millions through the Strait of Hormuz.

Starvation and you think the world will do nothing about it. If Israel just Nukes the Water Plants and Sewage Iran will starve to death.

It also can mobilize up to a million soldiers. Not to mention the arsenal of current missles that instead of nuke warheads could easily be replaced with much easier to obtain biological or chemical warheads that most nations in the world already have.

And you think U.S.A. & Israel don't know where they are stored or how it will be used by Iran.


America will be damned if israel drags them into another war in an area that they already want to get the hell out of. Losing your last staunch ally in the world is not a good thing.


Doctrine. U.S.A. is the only country which follows in the world. Russia used to follow it but not any more.

U.S. Builds Air Base in Iraq for the Long Haul
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15184773

About 40,000 troops, contractors and Defense Department civilian employees live there.

The base is one giant construction project, with new roads, sidewalks, and structures going up across this 16-square-mile fortress in the center of Iraq, all with an eye toward the next few decades.

The base is so big that there is a regular bus service within its perimeter to ferry around the tens of thousands of troops and contractors who live here. And the services are commensurate with the size of the population.

The Subway sandwich chain is one of several U.S. chains with a foothold here. There are two base exchanges that are about as large as a Target or K-Mart. Consumer items from laptop computers to flat-screen TV's to Harley Davidson motorcycles are available for purchase.

Those comforts, says Captain Shawn Scott, make life seem a little more like home.


This is suicidal and idiotic in so many ways. Unless you advocate for world war 3 and a new darkage then continue spouting this insanity. Otherwise, you should sit down and read a book. You are extremely ignorant.

Again WWIII will not start because of Iran. NPT.

[ArthurCrandall]

Misread? Perhaps you mis-stated, I however dont think so. I think you said what you thought and intended which is in line with current demonification of Israel, "the cabal," "the lobby," "the Rothchildes" and the rest of the stiff necked Jews, Arthur. So why don't you just save us some time and tell us exactly what wars Israel has dragged American into, per:

lol why are you quoting stuff i never said? hahahahaha :lol: lemme quote you then "hi i'm bararallu and i'm the dumbest person on earth"

The difference between my quotes and yours is that well.. i'm paraphrasing what you said. Where as you are just pulling crap out of your ass.


Now please address my points of how war is not an option. If you can not then just stop replying. If you reply with a zero content post i will end up not replying. You can have the last word if its utter nonsense. I will give you that.

[ArthurCrandall]

So. They have signed the NPT.

Civilian nuclear power program is explicitly allowed under the terms of the NPT.


China reveals Iran's nuclear secrets to UN
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1583682/China-reveals-Irans-nuclear-secrets-to-UN.html




Is the telegraph reliable? I mean is it reliable except in the case where it makes israel look stupid?



Starvation and you think the world will do nothing about it. If Israel just Nukes the Water Plants and Sewage Iran will starve to death.

wow are you dumb. You realize have the world's human biomass has come from fossil fuels? Do you understand anything at all? Are you moderately retarded into thinking that the world can go on without oil? Hell why even ask when you suggest using nukes first haha.


And you think U.S.A. & Israel don't know where they are stored or how it will be used by Iran.

:lol: "NETANYAHU: I have complete faith that inspections will not uncover the myriad sites in which Saddam today can develop, can manufacture the critical mass of plutonium that he needs. He's changed his technology from a centralized plant of the kind that we took out in 1981 precisely because of that.

He now has this distributed in little sites, tiny sites, tiny centrifuges the size of washing machines, and they're hidden. Are you going to find them? Iraq is a very big country. He's got 50 palaces with secret trap doors.":lol:

Yeah israel doesn't know anything i'm pretty sure. USA isn't gonna help israel on this one however. Unless you think we are crazy and suicidal.



Doctrine. U.S.A. is the only country which follows in the world. Russia used to follow it but not any more.

U.S. Builds Air Base in Iraq for the Long Haul
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15184773

About 40,000 troops, contractors and Defense Department civilian employees live there.

The base is one giant construction project, with new roads, sidewalks, and structures going up across this 16-square-mile fortress in the center of Iraq, all with an eye toward the next few decades.

The base is so big that there is a regular bus service within its perimeter to ferry around the tens of thousands of troops and contractors who live here. And the services are commensurate with the size of the population.

The Subway sandwich chain is one of several U.S. chains with a foothold here. There are two base exchanges that are about as large as a Target or K-Mart. Consumer items from laptop computers to flat-screen TV's to Harley Davidson motorcycles are available for purchase.

Those comforts, says Captain Shawn Scott, make life seem a little more like home.


Saddam had some forts. Didn't matter. ! million man army vs 40,000 sitting ducks. Nice. That base is mainly there to protect from small fire from militia. And it won't be there long before iraq asks them to leave.. again.. yup 1 million vs 40,000 targets inside a camp. What if they just skipped it? Or caused a smoke screen with WP causing everyone inside irritations in the eyes, lungs, skin, ect and then proceeded to overwelm them? Whatever.. this is such a retarded discussion in so many ways.



Again WWIII will not start because of Iran. NPT.

You realize they signed off on iran having all of this in the 70s? But if you are so concerned about international law then i guess you are all for warcrimes charges to be applied to israeli head of state?

If you think that signing an NPT means that you can get nuked. Then you are the most retarded person in the universe. Bye. You have wasted my time with your nonsense.

[shravan]

Is the telegraph reliable? I mean is it reliable except in the case where it makes israel look stupid?

Haven't you ever searched on Internet.


wow are you dumb. You realize have the world's human biomass has come from fossil fuels? Do you understand anything at all? Are you moderately retarded into thinking that the world can go on without oil? Hell why even ask when you suggest using nukes first haha.

And you still think the world will beg for oil....:rofl:


:lol: "NETANYAHU: I have complete faith that inspections will not uncover the myriad sites in which Saddam today can develop, can manufacture the critical mass of plutonium that he needs. He's changed his technology from a centralized plant of the kind that we took out in 1981 precisely because of that.

He now has this distributed in little sites, tiny sites, tiny centrifuges the size of washing machines, and they're hidden. Are you going to find them? Iraq is a very big country. He's got 50 palaces with secret trap doors.":lol:

Yeah israel doesn't know anything i'm pretty sure. USA isn't gonna help israel on this one however. Unless you think we are crazy and suicidal.

Saddam had some forts. Didn't matter. ! million man army vs 40,000 sitting ducks. Nice. That base is mainly there to protect from small fire from militia. And it won't be there long before iraq asks them to leave.. again.. yup 1 million vs 40,000 targets inside a camp. What if they just skipped it? Or caused a smoke screen with WP causing everyone inside irritations in the eyes, lungs, skin, ect and then proceeded to overwelm them? Whatever.. this is such a retarded discussion in so many ways.



Its so easy to do that right.....:clap:


If you think that signing an NPT means that you can get nuked. Then you are the most retarded person in the universe. Bye. You have wasted my time with your nonsense.

So if America Invades other countries can't object .....:cool:

----

Last reply to you.

You can believe what ever you want. Bye take Care.

[bararallu]

lol why are you quoting stuff i never said? hahahahaha :lol:

I quoted you directly, again:

America will be damned if israel drags them into another war in an area that they already want to get the hell out of.

And again, what wars did Israel drag America into?

[Oberon]

And again, what wars did Israel drag America into?

None.

The guy's been banned, though, and can't answer. I guess we can just treat his posts as rhetorical questions or talking points.

[Mediocrates]

They're assertions. As they say, everyone's entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts.