View Full Version : Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past
shravan
10-03-2009, 04:15 AM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html)
A photograph of the Iranian president holding up his identity card during elections in March 2008 clearly shows his family has Jewish roots.
A close-up of the document reveals he was previously known as Sabourjian – a Jewish name meaning cloth weaver.
The short note scrawled on the card suggests his family changed its name to Ahmadinejad when they converted to embrace Islam after his birth.
The Sabourjians traditionally hail from Aradan, Mr Ahmadinejad's birthplace, and the name derives from the Jewish for "weaver of the Sabour", the name for the Jewish Tallit shawl in Persia. The name is even on the list of reserved names for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior.
Experts last night suggested Mr Ahmadinejad's track record for hate-filled attacks on Jews could be an overcompensation to hide his past.
Ali Nourizadeh, of the Centre for Arab and Iranian Studies, said: "This aspect of Mr Ahmadinejad's background explains a lot about him.
"Every family that converts into a different religion takes a new identity by condemning their old faith.
"By making anti-Israeli statements he is trying to shed any suspicions about his Jewish connections. He feels vulnerable in a radical Shia society."
A London-based expert on Iranian Jewry said that "jian" ending to the name specifically showed the family had been practising Jews.
"He has changed his name for religious reasons, or at least his parents had," said the Iranian-born Jew living in London. "Sabourjian is well known Jewish name in Iran."
A spokesman for the Iranian embassy in London said it would not be drawn on Mr Ahmadinejad's background. "It's not something we'd talk about," said Ron Gidor, a spokesman.
The Iranian leader has not denied his name was changed when his family moved to Tehran in the 1950s. But he has never revealed what it was change from or directly addressed the reason for the switch.
Relatives have previously said a mixture of religious reasons and economic pressures forced his blacksmith father Ahmad to change when Mr Ahmadinejad was aged four.
The Iranian president grew up to be a qualified engineer with a doctorate in traffic management. He served in the Revolutionary Guards militia before going on to make his name in hardline politics in the capital.
During this year's presidential debate on television he was goaded to admit that his name had changed but he ignored the jibe.
However Mehdi Khazali, an internet blogger, who called for an investigation of Mr Ahmadinejad's roots was arrested this summer.
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad revealed to have Jewish past (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/6256173/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-revealed-to-have-Jewish-past.html)
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Aliyah1995
10-03-2009, 09:50 AM
Shhhhhh!!!! You might be assassinated for suggesting such a thing.... And don't think you are safe all the way in India:unsure:
bararallu
10-03-2009, 10:13 AM
For every convert that is a light amongst the nations there are 50 that make it their life goal to eradicate their ancestry... both psychologically and indeed [think genocide]. History is replete with such characters. Torquemada had Jewish ancestry, the Russian Zhirinovsky as well. I'd go to say that histories greatest antisemites are ex-Jews.
Complete idiocy. I personally think Mahmud is Swedish.
shravan
10-03-2009, 01:08 PM
And don't think you are safe all the way in India:unsure:
Every morning i drink tea in a Iranian Hotel...:unsure:
shravan
10-03-2009, 01:14 PM
For every convert that is a light amongst the nations there are 50 that make it their life goal to eradicate their ancestry... both psychologically and indeed [think genocide]. History is replete with such characters. Torquemada had Jewish ancestry, the Russian Zhirinovsky as well. I'd go to say that histories greatest antisemites are ex-Jews.
Luckily he does not have any control over his Army. If the above article is true it tells a lot about his behavior.
Djinn
10-03-2009, 02:43 PM
Can any knowledgeable people here comment on whether "Sabourjian" is a Jewish name? It doesn't sound Jewish to me, but I am no expert.
bararallu
10-03-2009, 03:23 PM
Luckily he does not have any control over his Army. If the above article is true it tells a lot about his behavior.
Oddly enough now we will see a potentially interesting flip in Iranian dissent politics- some in the dissent camp will use this factoid against the regime. That is to say, use antisemitic sentiment to crush and arch anti-Semite.
I think it is quite possible that his family converted. And it is quite possible for a convert to act the way he is acting. Historically speaking. This theory is just given credence by the regime arresting the blogger that 'broke the story'. Then again they arrest a lot of people.
As far as not having any control of the Army.. the Army controls him. Iran has turned into a junta like occupation. It is only superficially Mullah driven, unlike the early 80's. He's the military's man and by that- I mean a short list, like Mohammad Ali Jafari, Yahya Rahim Safavi, Mohammad Hejazi- that is to say the "revolutionary guard" upper echelon.
Madeline
10-04-2009, 06:28 AM
Complete idiocy. I personally think Mahmud is Swedish.
I thought he was Austrian, given his hatred for Jews.:scratch:
dayag
10-04-2009, 07:58 AM
Can any knowledgeable people here comment on whether "Sabourjian" is a Jewish name? It doesn't sound Jewish to me, but I am no expert.
Yeah, in Yiddish it would be "Satmarer." :rofl:
chaver4u2
10-04-2009, 08:12 AM
Gadaffi's Jewish mother converted to Islam at age 9.
Gadaffi is, Halachically speaking, still considered a Jew.
He complimented Obama for his Muslim roots, and had some nice words for us Jews at the UN.
The world upside down.
http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/09/gaddafis-mother-was-jew-converted-to.html
dayag
10-04-2009, 08:26 AM
Gadaffi's Jewish mother converted to Islam at age 9.
Gadaffi is, Halachically speaking, still considered a Jew.
He complimented Obama for his Muslim roots, and had some nice words for us Jews at the UN.
The world upside down.
http://libyamonitor.blogspot.com/2008/09/gaddafis-mother-was-jew-converted-to.html
I tend to take all of these Jewish origin stories with a grain of salt. I have seen people claim that Eisenhower, Roosevelt, and even Stalin were of Jewish origin.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 11:15 AM
I tend to take all of these Jewish origin stories with a grain of salt. I have seen people claim that Eisenhower, Roosevelt, and even Stalin were of Jewish origin.
I agree, but there is a possibility. As I said above, some of the worst antisemites are converts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Christiani).
I personally think that it both possible and probable about Ahmadinihad, and a little possible about Qadaffi.
Dude of all the things they can come up with - this is the most idiotic.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Dude of all the things they can come up with - this is the most idiotic.
Why? You don't think that this is impossible? My Israeli friend (a Farsi) says it is quite possible. Qadaffi I'm more skeptical about.
In terms of pure hate... how many communist Jews have you read about that did their 101% to destroy the Jewish communities in the USSR? In my town there were quite a few. Now communists are not exactly Muslims, in all the range of belief commitments but there have been many cases in history where this has happened and we, as a community, suffered for it. Torquemada and Christiani where incredibly horrible Jew haters. Mohamed had a convert in his band.
So I really get the 'overcompensation' angle... that is to say the motive is there. The question about authenticity is now an academic one. Please note that Ahmadinejad neither denied this nor affirmed it. He confirmed that the name is changed. We have confirmation that the name is majority Jewish. There are relatives supposedly that have corroborated it. There was the blogger that broke the story but was arrested (probably dead now).
So it looks quite the possibility to me... and there are two parties that may and probably will play it up: the Iranians dissenters who will push 'a foreigner is running the roost' (Jews are still considered foreigners in Iran, even though they lived there for thousands of years), and the Arabs of course which will waeve their conspiracy theories and link him to a Zionist plot. I'm persoannly happy about both. It gives me nahis to see traitor dogs get slaughtered even though they appease their masters. In fact nothing in this world gives me as much Schadenfreude.
Madeline
10-04-2009, 12:22 PM
Why? You don't think that this is impossible? My Israeli friend (a Farsi) says it is quite possible. Qadaffi I'm more skeptical about.
In terms of pure hate... how many communist Jews have you read about that did their 101% to destroy the Jewish communities in the USSR? In my town there were quite a few. Now communists are not exactly Muslims, in all the range of belief commitments but there have been many cases in history where this has happened and we, as a community, suffered for it. Torquemada and Christiani where incredibly horrible Jew haters. Mohamed had a convert in his band.
So I really get the 'overcompensation' angle... that is to say the motive is there. The question about authenticity is now an academic one. Please note that Ahmadinejad neither denied this nor affirmed it. He confirmed that the name is changed. We have confirmation that the name is majority Jewish. There are relatives supposedly that have corroborated it. There was the blogger that broke the story but was arrested (probably dead now).
So it looks quite the possibility to me... and there are two parties that may and probably will play it up: the Iranians dissenters who will push 'a foreigner is running the roost' (Jews are still considered foreigners in Iran, even though they lived there for thousands of years), and the Arabs of course which will waeve their conspiracy theories and link him to a Zionist plot. I'm persoannly happy about both. It gives me nahis to see traitor dogs get slaughtered even though they appease their masters. In fact nothing in this world gives me as much Schadenfreude.
Hitler is rumored to have been a closet homosexual, and not quite 'friendly' with them after gaining power.
Dude of all the things they can come up with - this is the most idiotic.
Why? You don't think that this is impossible? My Israeli friend (a Farsi) says it is quite possible. Qadaffi I'm more skeptical about.
In terms of pure hate... how many communist Jews have you read about that did their 101% to destroy the Jewish communities in the USSR? In my town there were quite a few. Now communists are not exactly Muslims, in all the range of belief commitments but there have been many cases in history where this has happened and we, as a community, suffered for it. Torquemada and Christiani where incredibly horrible Jew haters. Mohamed had a convert in his band.
So I really get the 'overcompensation' angle... that is to say the motive is there. The question about authenticity is now an academic one. Please note that Ahmadinejad neither denied this nor affirmed it. He confirmed that the name is changed. We have confirmation that the name is majority Jewish. There are relatives supposedly that have corroborated it. There was the blogger that broke the story but was arrested (probably dead now).
So it looks quite the possibility to me... and there are two parties that may and probably will play it up: the Iranians dissenters who will push 'a foreigner is running the roost' (Jews are still considered foreigners in Iran, even though they lived there for thousands of years), and the Arabs of course which will waeve their conspiracy theories and link him to a Zionist plot. I'm persoannly happy about both. It gives me nahis to see traitor dogs get slaughtered even though they appease their masters. In fact nothing in this world gives me as much Schadenfreude.
It's complete idiocy designed for the value of conspiracy. I really doubt he is Jewish or has any Jewish blood in him.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 01:46 PM
You are doubting out of counter evidence or just because there is no credible evidence? What would you consider credible evidence then?
Credible evidence is credible evidence. If they are just using the last name as primary evidence then a Rosenberg can be anybody... a nazi philosopher or local Jewish gynecologist.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 03:12 PM
Credible evidence is credible evidence. If they are just using the last name as primary evidence then a Rosenberg can be anybody... a nazi philosopher or local Jewish gynecologist.
No I get that. I'm just asking what in this case would be sufficient evidence and how would that evidence be ascertained? I'm generally with you on conspiracy theories. I have reservations about Qadaaffi, and certainly Hitler being a Jew.
But there are others- like Zhirinovsky (who was and is a virtual nobody) who finally admired being a Jew (.5 and the wrong side at that) and who initially and for a good while denied it and built his party by railing against the Jews in the foulest way. Throwing tinder on a country that doesn't need much. I am especially sensitive to former Jews, whether they are converted ideologically or religiously since in my opinion there are no enemies but them.
Everyone else we can maybe eventually talk to, even the Arabs, but not these cretins. From capos to court Jews to outright converts these are the people, IMO, that are driving the knives in our collective back. Without them I'd say there would substantially be less Jew hate in the world.
Zhirik never really denied being half-Jewish.... he recently visited his half brothers in Israel, I believe.
Hitler was not a Jew or even one-hundredth of a Jew. Well - may be one-hundredth.
As to Mahmud being Jewish there are got to be records, family members, and generally people who remember if his family was Jewish. If this happened just a generation ago, meaning his parents are Jewish, it shouldn't be hard to find. This is not Europe were much of the records and family were erased by the war but Iran. The Jewish community in Iran is fairly small, fairly in-tact and everyone knows everyone else. I am sure there got to be someone who knew his family... given that much of the Iranian community lives here in the States and Israel I am positive someone would be related or know them with absolute certainty.
These are conspiracy theories along with all else and should be thrown into the garbage of journalism along with the Swedish organ thing. Unfortunately looking for "hidden" Jews is the past time of some in our Jewish community and much of it is complete garbage. Did you know they claimed Andropov was a Jew? Medvedev is apparently a Jew... Beria was a Jew.... the list is long.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 03:46 PM
Zhirik never really denied being half-Jewish.... he recently visited his half brothers in Israel, I believe.
Hmm I distinctly remember reading he did... he called his father a "lawyer" or something like it to divert attention from it. And after a while he admitted it.
Hitler was not a Jew or even one-hundredth of a Jew. Well - may be one-hundredth.
I agree with that. There is no reason to think otherwise.
As to Mahmud being Jewish there are got to be records, family members, and generally people who remember if his family was Jewish.
Which supposedly all have been produced if you read the articles.
If this happened just a generation ago, meaning his parents are Jewish, it shouldn't be hard to find.
He was 4 years old when it happened, supposedly.
These are conspiracy theories along with all else and should be thrown into the garbage of journalism along with the Swedish organ thing. Unfortunately looking for "hidden" Jews is the past time of some in our Jewish community and much of it is complete garbage. Did you know they claimed Andropov was a Jew? Medvedev is apparently a Jew... Beria was a Jew.... the list is long.
Oh I know. Except in this case it actually is beautifully ironic to surface, actually whether it is true or not. And I'm leaning toward this case being true. Even if it werent I'm enjoying his grilling on the same grill that he grills his former co-religionists.
I doubt he is. From what I heard he is actually an Azheri or something of the sort. But anyways - if his parents converted when he was four then he should definitely have cousins and close relatives living somewhere around here or in Israel.
bararallu
10-04-2009, 04:43 PM
I doubt he is. From what I heard he is actually an Azheri or something of the sort. But anyways - if his parents converted when he was four then he should definitely have cousins and close relatives living somewhere around here or in Israel.
Thats what the story goes, some relatives have been identified who know his father and the reasons he converted. I'm just waiting to hear more, but the regime is suppressing these things... which makes me think there is something to it. Let me say for the record I'm not 100% convinced yet either, maybe about 70%.
Dude if this turns out to be true I will be laughing really hard. Though I am not convinced at all and believe this is all garbage.
Mediocrates
10-04-2009, 05:42 PM
Send him a subsciption to Tikkun magazine
Yeah - sign him up for Forward and the NY Times :)
Kachah
10-04-2009, 08:16 PM
There were also numerous cases of blaming Yeltsin for being a Jew, and then Putin and Medvedev. In fact, pretty much any subject of criticism has a high chance of being suspected of Jewish roots. That is a nature of anti-semitism where "Jewish" stands for "indecent".
So what?
The suggested family name for this Ahma-what's his name - sounds Armenian to me and it would make sense in light of ethnical closeness of Persioans and Armenians. But suppose it's Jewish, how would it matter? Be this as it may, he is acting as a follower of a crazy murderous ideology regardless of his DNA.
We are not racists are we?
Same applies for the communists. They were ing commies first and foremost. THe fact that they had been born in Jewish families is of interest for the studies of the factors instrumental in turning people from different groups into communists or islamofascists.
There were plenty of Poles among the communists (and for the same reason, oppressed minority turning to violence as seemingly the way to liberate themselves) - nobody seems to be bothered with that. Or Latvians for that matter. Or Caucasian ethnics. They are all okay. It's the Jews' fault.
Nice going.
Mediocrates
10-05-2009, 07:34 AM
Whether it's true or not, the worst thing seemingly, you can call him is a Jew.
GratefulFred
10-05-2009, 10:09 AM
Next thing he'll tell us about how he converted after losing some of his family in the Holocaust.
Mediocrates
10-05-2009, 11:19 AM
what holocaust?
dayag
10-06-2009, 05:13 PM
Another myth bites the dust...
...According to Menashe Amir, a long-time director of Voice of Israel Radio's Persian-language broadcasts and a leading expert on Iran, the story of Ahmadinejad's former name indicating Jewish roots is nonsense. In print and on the radio in recent days, Amir has reiterated that Sabourjian, Ahmadinejad's previous surname, has "absolutely nothing to do with Jews."
...Concurring with Amir regarding the name Sabourjian, Professor David Yerushalmi of the Center for Iranian Studies at Tel Aviv University said that the "-jian" suffix is as Muslim as it is Jewish.
In an article in Monday's Guardian newspaper, also printed in the UK, Meir Javedanfar cites Robert Tait, a Guardian correspondent, and Kasra Naji, a biographer of Ahmadinejad, as saying that Sabourjian indicates an occupation as the person who colors threads used in carpet weaving. "Carpet weaving or colouring carpet threads are not professions associated with Jews in Iran," writes Javedanfar.
The Telegraph article also claimed that Sabourjian is on a list of names reserved for Iranian Jews compiled by Iran's Ministry of the Interior. The problem with this claim, according to Amir, is that no such registry exists.
Furthermore, Jews in Iran did not live in small villages such as the one Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hails from, Amir explained. According to Amir, with the exception of Jews in the Kurdish areas, Jews tended to congregate in the nation's major cities...
source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/133717
They will try to paint every tyrant and dictator as a Jew...to discredit the real Jews.
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