Well done Israel. Another great campaign.

[The Saint]

Well it looks like Israel has done it again and amazingly I cannot find this story on any of the big American news sites. Mmm, how odd. I wonder why. Well I dont think that it was a good idea and obviously Israel will expect retaliation. Shooting at a hospital. Very naughty. Was any of the footage broadcast on US tv?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2309027.stm

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by The Saint
Well it looks like Israel has done it again and amazingly I cannot find this story on any of the big American news sites. Mmm, how odd. I wonder why. Well I dont think that it was a good idea and obviously Israel will expect retaliation. Shooting at a hospital. Very naughty. Was any of the footage broadcast on US tv?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2309027.stm

Jews rule the world, the incident has never happen, your memory will soon be earased. Jews rule the world.

:p :p :p

[DeadSquirrel]

The Saint. Yes. yet another example of Palestinians using civilian buildings (i.e Hospitals and ambulances) to shoot at the IDF. This is an old tactic which has been used by many Arab leaders in the past. Shoot from a civilian building then go cry to the UN when the IDF protects itself.

[The Saint]

From the BBC

"Monday's raid was carried out by tanks, backed by helicopters and bulldozers, in the southern Gaza Strip town of Khan Younis.

The United States condemned the operation, saying it took place in crowded civilian areas and involved firing on a medical facility.

The European Union, Russia, Egypt and United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan also voiced strong criticism. "



The Saint. Yes. yet another example of Palestinians using civilian buildings (i.e Hospitals and ambulances) to shoot at the IDF. This is an old tactic which has been used by many Arab leaders in the past. Shoot from a civilian building then go cry to the UN when the IDF protects itself.

Protects itself? It rolled into the town with helicopters and tanks and started killing people. That is not defence.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by The Saint

Protects itself? It rolled into the town with helicopters and tanks and started killing people. That is not defence.

Oh yes, we forgot: Palestinians indoctrinate children to become terrorists beginning in Kindergarten. It's OK to kill students and faculty having lunch at Hebrew University; after all, they are only Jews. Mass murder of Jews, incited, encouraged, and glorified by Islamists, does not justify self-defense.

Meanwhile, the Gaza strip has been used as a launching pad for missiles aimed at Jewish residential areas. Again, it doesn't matter to you if the targets are Jews. The "Palestinians," who didn't know they were a nation until after 1967, are just fighting for their basic right to settle 1 million Arabs inside Israel -- the better to mass murder her inhabitants.

[The Saint]

Again, it doesn't matter to you if the targets are Jews. The "Palestinians," who didn't know they were a nation until after 1967, are just fighting for their basic right to settle 1 million Arabs inside Israel -- the better to mass murder her inhabitants.

Were these 1 million people living on that land before the formation of Israel? You cannot justify opening fire on a crowded street full of civilians.

[DeadSquirrel]

Protects itself? It rolled into the town with helicopters and tanks and started killing people. That is not defence.
But you forget why they went in in the first place.

Let me ask you a question. Do you know how many terrorist attacks are thwarted by the IDF every day? (ill give you a clue, you wont find this on the BBC News site)

To stop terrorists, you either put pressure on the leaders who support those terrorists, or, failing that, do the dirty job yourself. As Arafat is unable/unwilling (whichever point of view you take), the IDF has to do it themselves. If in the process they encounter resistance, they will defend themselves. What exactly do you not understand? It is a fact that Sharon's policies (however short sighted) ARE working. He is saving hundreds of Israeli lives every day. It is also a fact that if there was no suicide bombings, the IDF would not be in those areas now.

[The Saint]

The last people to attack were the Israelis. The Palestinians did not counter and Israel attacked again. I dont care what your excuses are there is no excuse to open fire on civilians. Thats murder. And dont go on about defencive action. The two people that they went into get they didnt get. So they didnt get who they wanted and they killed a bunch of civilians and injured over 80 more but it was a resounding success.

[The Saint]

Let me ask you a question. Do you know how many terrorist attacks are thwarted by the IDF every day? (ill give you a clue, you wont find this on the BBC News site)

Can you please tell me where I can find this information? Please dont tell me the Jerusalem Post or some other biased media.

[DeadSquirrel]

The last people to attack were the Israelis. The Palestinians did not counter and Israel attacked again

This is exactly what the problem is. You get your views from the BBC which, as a media organisation will only publish stories that can make an impact. Obviously, for the BBC, the fact that the IDF has thwarted yet another attack, on a daily basis, is not news worthy. So, what they do is wait for the next big thing, which in this case was the Israeli Army entering a populated area to capture some terrorists and in the process kill 3 civilians. Then they scream at the top of their voices, and you, as a reader/viewer gets the impression that the IDF just entered the populated area for fun. You have no information about the 25 and rising attempts which took place in the 2 week period just before the incursion.


Can you please tell me where I can find this information? Please don't tell me the Jerusalem Post or some other biased media.
That's my point. It is not news anywhere else in the world apart from Israel. So, you would only see this if you watched Israeli news or red Israeli newspapers or publications. You don't seriously think that the BBC will show every failed attempt by Palestinians to attack Israelis?

Maybe, if you are really honest with yourself, you should read other points of view apart from BBC, Robert Fisk or other European journalists.

Have you ever been to Israel Saint? Just wandering, as you seem to have this view that our media is somewhat throttled by the government. It is anything but. In fact, I used to hear (before this intifada which completely polarized the publics view) more anti-occupation views from Israeli media then any other, so don't knock it till you experience it.

[The Saint]

You want to complain about European media? This incursion that killed 13 people isnt even in the news on CNN or NBC. See anything strange with that? But anytime there is an attack against Israel its front page news. You should know being from the UK that the same amount of news time is allocated to Hamas attacks on Israel than Israeli attacks on Palestine if not more.

I'm still waiting for you to send me a link to show me all of these attacks Israel has thwarted.

[DeadSquirrel]

oh, just in case you don't believe me about the media in Israel, have a look at this:

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=217532&displayTypeCd=1&sideCd=1&contrassID=2

H'aaretz is the 3rd largest newspaper in Israel
then, try and find a similar self criticising publication in the Arab press. Consider this a challenge.
So please don't assume that all I hear all day is how good the Israelis are and how evil the Arabs are, because I most certainly don't. I, on the other hand, get the impression that you only look at one side of the story, accepting everything they say without asking yourself if there is another side.

[DeadSquirrel]

You want to complain about European media? This incursion that killed 13 people isnt even in the news on CNN or NBC. See anything strange with that?

I really dont know what you are talking about. I saw it yestarday....


in fact its here:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/10/07/mideast/index.html

with videos and everything.

[The Saint]

I know there is another side. I feel sympathy with the innocent people that are killed. But I feel Israels response is not doing anything to achieve peace. I think if Israel withdraws from the occupied territories and removes the settlements and have UN peace keeping forces on the borders it would ease the tension if only a small bit. But I know Israel would never allow this.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by The Saint


Were these 1 million people living on that land before the formation of Israel? You cannot justify opening fire on a crowded street full of civilians.

No, they weren't. The number of Arabs who left numbered around 600,000. While some were probably driven out, many (if not most) left voluntarily.

Today, Arab countries do everything they can to exacerbate the "refugee" problem. The original refugees were never assimilated into other Arab societies. This ensured that each child born to a refugee was also considered (and treated as) a refugee.

The real issue is that Islamists are terrorists and are supported, nurtured, and glorified by Arab societies. There is no excuse for purposely mass murdering people in markets, restauraunts, and cafes. Yet Palestinian supporters excuse and even justify this evil every day.

I look forward to the day -- probably after Saddam Hussein is deposed -- when Israel is given a free hand to go into the Gaza strip with full force to totally and permanently crush Hamas. It's unfortunate that some civilians will be killed, but that is a known risk to people who stand next to or in front of armed mass murderers.

Of course, your argument was used to defend the Nazis. Hitler complained bitterly that the allies were killing German civilians in air raids. We all know now that it was the Nazis and not the allies who were ultimately responsible. Perhaps in time more of the world will figure out that the PA and its terrorist united front is likewise responsible for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.

After all, Israel presented a comprehensive peace settlement and the PA responded not with a counter-offer but with a wave of barbaric terrorist attacks.

[L@mplighterM]

During WWII passenger ships were often accompanied by other navy vessels for protection. If by any chance the passenger ship was torpedoed the standard rule was that the navy had to engage the enemy even at the cost of abandoning the survivors of the passenger ship. These orders extended to the point of dropping depth charges among the survivors if it was believed that the enemy sub was hiding somewhere below.

That's war!

Why do the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter believe that they are entitled to preferential treatment?

[The Saint]

The IDF has killed more civilians than Hamas. Israel has acted continuously more aggressively than Hamas. Do you not think that if Israel stopped incursions that maybe the shootings might subside. You cannot think that these incursions can be helping. Even if they are killing a lot of terrorists as well as civilians then they are creating even more terrorists.

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by The Saint
The IDF has killed more civilians than Hamas. Israel has acted continuously more aggressively than Hamas. Do you not think that if Israel stopped incursions that maybe the shootings might subside. You cannot think that these incursions can be helping. Even if they are killing a lot of terrorists as well as civilians then they are creating even more terrorists.

This is exactly what happens when an ARM-CHAIR TERRORIST SUPPORTER gets in the game a little too late.

At the risk of sounding condescending, you really need to have jumped in back at the start of the second intifada rather than towards the end of the routing of terrorism and conclusion to the second intifada.

The ONLY reason there are incursions are BECAUSE these terror groups began attacking Israelis at the rate of 4 times a day, rather than 4 times a month.

(in a sarcastic, whiny voice) "If Israel pulled out they would just be nice too". How old are you?

[L@mplighterM]

From the ruins of war comes peace at least for a little while.!

Finally someone in Israel is realizing that hardball is the only thing that Arabs understand. For some reason unbeknownst to me many of these people (Arabs) only relate to harsh dictators. Strange people!

Despite the fact that reports indicate that there?s hardship among Palestinians due to Arafat?s leadership the majority still supports him.

[alexbmn]

anyway since there's a finally a thread on yesterday's raid I want to voice my opinion.Its about time!!There's a reason why Sharon termed it a success and why the Laborites barely raised any objection.The IDF went into the snake nest of terror where the Pals thought they were immune and eliminated a good number of terrorists(in Palestinian parlance,"innocent civilians who for some reason happened to be holding Kalashnikovs at the time")without suffering any casualties. And the inevitable international condemnation was rather tame.The usual BS from the State department and Kofi to which no Israeli pays attention to.Not a peep from Ari Fleisher.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by alexbmn
The IDF went into the snake nest of terror where the Pals thought they were immune and eliminated a good number of terrorists(in Palestinian parlance,"innocent civilians who for some reason happened to be holding Kalashnikovs at the time")without suffering any casualties.


And may there be many more!

[Blueprint]

Originally posted by minusthejihad


This is exactly what happens when an ARM-CHAIR TERRORIST SUPPORTER gets in the game a little too late.

At the risk of sounding condescending, you really need to have jumped in back at the start of the second intifada rather than towards the end of the routing of terrorism and conclusion to the second intifada.

The ONLY reason there are incursions are BECAUSE these terror groups began attacking Israelis at the rate of 4 times a day, rather than 4 times a month.

(in a sarcastic, whiny voice) "If Israel pulled out they would just be nice too". How old are you?

This is all that needs to be said to The Saint.

He expects that all this stoping terrorists from attacking Israel is going to make headlines on BBC, and then refuses to believe newspapers from inside Israel because their supposedly 'biased', even left-wing newspapers like Haaretz (which, and I am not lying, a Palestinian friend of mine uses that for his main news regarding Israel/West/Bank/Gaza/wherver else).

You can not just go denying news simply because you do not hear it on BBC or whatever TV station you view. Israel thwarting terrorist attacks is not big news. THEY ARE NOT THE AGRESSOR IN THAT SITUATION, THEREFORE YOU DO NOT SEE IT, SAINT. =

Keep on pretending that the Infitadah started yesterday and the Israelis are just going into the Gaza for no apparent reason to play target practice with the precious, innocent peace loving Palestinian terrorists.

Yes, remove the settlements, end the occupation, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW PEACEFUL THE AREA WAS IN 1967. AND WE ALL KNOW HOW MUCH ARAFAT LOOOOOVES PEACE AND ARRESTS ALL THE TERRORISTS!!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! HAPPY FUN LAND ISRAEL AND PALESTINE JOINED TOGETHER ATLAST!!!!!!!!! ALL WE HAD TO DO WAS REMOVE SOME SETTLEMENTS!!!!!! THIS IS EASY!!!!!! ITS NOT LIKE THEIR HAVE EVER BEEN ANY PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS! THE IDEA OF THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!! ITS ALL ISRAELS FAULT!!!!!! JIHAD!!!!!!!

[Tan]

Originally posted by The Saint
Well it looks like Israel has done it again and amazingly I cannot find this story on any of the big American news sites. Mmm, how odd. I wonder why. Well I dont think that it was a good idea and obviously Israel will expect retaliation. Shooting at a hospital. Very naughty. Was any of the footage broadcast on US tv?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2309027.stm

How do u know if there were no millitants shooting at the soldiers from the hospitat building?

Consider that they can use ambulance as a APC, i would not be surprise those terrorist will use hospital as a hiding place.

[Tan]

Originally posted by The Saint
The IDF has killed more civilians than Hamas. Israel has acted continuously more aggressively than Hamas. Do you not think that if Israel stopped incursions that maybe the shootings might subside. You cannot think that these incursions can be helping. Even if they are killing a lot of terrorists as well as civilians then they are creating even more terrorists.


It often easy to pin the blame on Israel for everything that went wrong. Bear in mind that sucide bombing by Hamas did not stop even after the Oslo agreement and Yasser arafat did not do his part to rein in on the millitant. u seems to forget this.

Israel have the legitimate right to defend herself.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Tan


How do u know if there were no millitants shooting at the soldiers from the hospitat building?

Consider that they can use ambulance as a APC, i would not be surprise those terrorist will use hospital as a hiding place.
In this spacif incident, from within the hospital, the arabs fired morter shells upon kibutzes and villages in israel. There is nothing new about that. Arabs use that tactic for dacades and it usually works. Not only here but also in Lebanon. Hizzballa was firing morters and katushas from shool yards, masques, hospitals and UN posts. Israel, tradionaly avioded returning fire, even in the expance of the lives of her own soldiers and civilians.

As a soldier (every Israeli men or women, serve in the army by law) I was in Lebanon, I witnessed how helpless our soldiers were, forbinden by top ranks, time and again to return fire, in fear that a masque would get demaged or a children in school yard would get hurt. Thus, we suffered casulties.

When the american marines will try liberating bagdad, they will see similar patten in their own eyes. Snipers firing from behind pregnant women, heavy machine guns and morters inside a hospitals, schools or mosque... mosques used as command centers or weapon storage, The arab world would consider entering these mosques as "desecration". Political prusser will be used to prevent the soldiers from defending themselves, thus giving the Iraqis political bulletproof shield.

For similar politcal reasons, Israel avoided fighting back "for real" for more then 18 monthes of the Intefada.

[freethepeeps]

Not everyone thinks the is defending itself. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1008/p06s01-wome.html)

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Not everyone thinks the is defending itself. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1008/p06s01-wome.html)

True, quite true in deed. The Hammas do think israel self defense is justified. So think several arab terroristic tyrannies and other arab terror organization. But we Israelis are not really supposed to take their opinions of us seriously, do we? no?

I pity you for chosing to take the same side with the Arabs, the same side with the world's most oppersive curropt, backwarded and murderus ragimes exist on the face of the earth, the "Palestinain authority" included.

[Philip]

Here we have an instance where Palestinians attacked military targets; namely, the troops and tanks that had invaded Khan Younis. And the IDF response -- as would be the response of any military with the capability -- is an immediate and overwhelming counter-attack, killing the Palestinian troops and (incidentally) not a few civilians. No significant harm was done to the IDF troops.

In contrast, terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians often do cause serious harm, and they cannot usually be responded to immediately or directly. As long as the conflict is being decided through force, terrorist attacks are clearly a better tactic for the Palestinians.

But the Palestinians are of course damned (particularly by the US government) for attacking "soft" targets, such as in the terrorist attacks. Essentially, this position insists that the Palestinians throw themselves on Israeli spears if the conflict is to be decided through force.

But who is responsible for the conflict being decided through force? The US government is preparing to invade Iraq allegedly because it has ignored UN Security Council resolutions, but it gives Israel about $6 billion a year to help in ignore UN Security Council resolutions. When there is no outright violence, the Israelis still forcefully impose expanded settlements in the Occupied Territories and still forcefully impose a discriminatory water-use policy, both in violation of War Crime laws that Israel has nominally accepted. And all efforts to end those War Crimes through application of law have been ignored by Israel.

I don't think any reasonable person can claim that the Palestinians are responsible for the conflict being decided through force.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Philip
Here we have an instance where Palestinians attacked military targets; namely, the troops and tanks that had invaded Khan Younis. And the IDF response -- as would be the response of any military with the capability -- is an immediate and overwhelming counter-attack, killing the Palestinian troops and (incidentally) not a few civilians. No significant harm was done to the IDF troops.

As we all know by now, the Arab civilians are the logistic backbone of the terrorist organizations: Civilans hide and store weapons and bombmaking facilities, shelter terrorists, pay them up, give the terrorist their children so they become suicide mass murderers or human shields. It is not a "civilian" population in the normal defenition of the word but a rather a low rankning peons in the terrorist hierarchy, people who ready to lynch mob any one any time, like a pack of canine from hell.


Originally posted by Philip
In contrast, terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians often do cause serious harm, and they cannot usually be responded to immediately or directly. As long as the conflict is being decided through force, terrorist attacks are clearly a better tactic for the Palestinians.

Better tactic? killing women and children? In what sense is it a better tactic? did it achived any political goal? did it improved the Arabs situation in any way? I don't thinks so, Israel is hurt and demaged, but we faired worse we can fight on, can so do the arabs ?


Originally posted by Philip
But the Palestinians are of course damned (particularly by the US government) for attacking "soft" targets, such as in the terrorist attacks. Essentially, this position insists that the Palestinians throw themselves on Israeli spears if the conflict is to be decided through force.

I accept that killing of civilians is not neccerily terrorism but a war tactic, evil yet existance and can be legetimated as a "form of warfare" or "rules of war: there are no such rules. Like street fighting... In such a case, we are allowed and encouraged to bomb Gaza flat and put the rest of the WB arab town to a blaze.
It fine with me, as long as we agree that these are the rules of war.

And, if the "Palestinians do not want to throw them selves on to the Israeli spears", WHY DID THEY BEGUN THIS WAR? Hand't they (or you) believe we Jews will defend ourselves by force if needs be?

I will remind you all, two years ago there were no road blocks, carfews, sanctions or tanks rolling in Arab streets. I has only begun when arabs started killing Jews (again)


Originally posted by Philip
But who is responsible for the conflict being decided through force? The US government is preparing to invade Iraq allegedly because it has ignored UN Security Council resolutions, but it gives Israel about $6 billion a year to help in ignore UN Security Council resolutions. When there is no outright violence, the Israelis still forcefully impose expanded settlements in the Occupied Territories and still forcefully impose a discriminatory water-use policy, both in violation of War Crime laws that Israel has nominally accepted. And all efforts to end those War Crimes through application of law have been ignored by Israel.
First, it's 3 Billion, which return to the US as arm sales. Secondly, the Arabs get more (mostly egypt).

As for the settlements, 1. There are arab settlement too 2. Jews are allowed to build house and live where ever they feel like in their own lands, WB included.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh


As we all know by now, the Arab civilians are the logistic backbone of the terrorist organizations: Civilans hide and store weapons and bombmaking facilities, shelter terrorists, pay them up, give the terrorist their children so they become suicide mass murderers or human shields. It is not a "civilian" population in the normal defenition of the word but a rather a low rankning peons in the terrorist hierarchy, people who ready to lynch mob any one any time, like a pack of canine from hell.

I definitely agree that it is - not a "civilian" population in the normal definition of the word. It is a population that has had its human rights consistently denied to it, by Israel since before 1967. What we really know is that the "terrorists" are in fact part of the civilian population that is struggling for its existence, and against an illegal and immoral occupation in which they are treated in some of the most disgusting and inhumane ways imaginable. As for your condemnation of the "lynch mob peons", their acts are witnessed by journalists and Internationals on a daily basis. Erm, you were talking about the "highly ethical and moral" membership of the , weren't you?




Better tactic? killing women and children? In what sense is it a better tactic? did it achived any political goal? did it improved the Arabs situation in any way? I don't thinks so, Israel is hurt and demaged, but we faired worse we can fight on, can so do the arabs ?

Palestine is far more "hurt and damaged" than Israel can ever claim to be. And it is the that is killing women and children daily, while you sit there smugly and excuse it. And believe me, Palestinians are not planning on giving up the struggle, no sirreee, they have been too radicalised for that. Of course, in your myth it is the PA that has radicalised them, but in reality it is the daily machinations of the that achieves the radicalisation.



I accept that killing of civilians is not neccerily terrorism but a war tactic, evil yet existance and can be legetimated as a "form of warfare" or "rules of war: there are no such rules. Like street fighting... In such a case, we are allowed and encouraged to bomb Gaza flat and put the rest of the WB arab town to a blaze.
It fine with me, as long as we agree that these are the rules of war.

They are the rules of your war. The figures show that. Once again we see relative calm from the Palestinians met with an increase in atrocities from the . Increasingly it becomes apparent to the rest of the world that the is determined to force another suicide-bombing. One must also remember that the is the arm of the Israeli state, whilst it takes a few people to perpertrate a suicide bombing, and that there is therefore no equivalence between the consistent dehumanising treatment of the Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis, and the sporadic suicide bombings of small resistance groups within the occupied territories.


And, if the "Palestinians do not want to throw them selves on to the Israeli spears", WHY DID THEY BEGUN THIS WAR? Hand't they (or you) believe we Jews will defend ourselves by force if needs be?

Only thats more myth, isn't it. The Israelis started this war in 1947 as part of their drive for "the whole of Israel" as their homeland. And they have never let up. Even as the Oslo process droned on, the Israeli expansion into the occupied territories continued at an increasingly frenetic pace. And Israel's "concessions", which amopunted to no more than an unworkable BANTUSTAN, controlled by Israel, meant that in the end, it was inevitable that resistance was the only way to go for Palestinians. And don't even think about dragging all Jews into this, you mean ISRAELIS!


I will remind you all, two years ago there were no road blocks, carfews, sanctions or tanks rolling in Arab streets. I has only begun when arabs started killing Jews (again)

I will remind you that Occupation never ended, and that we can see now that PA control of Gaza makes not one blind bit of difference, Israel continueds to go in as if it were in charge. Furthermore, closures continued throughout the Oslo process, and they were Israels closures.



First, it's 3 Billion, which return to the US as arm sales. Secondly, the Arabs get more (mostly egypt).

Israel is the largest single recipient of US Aid.


At present, U.S. economic and military grant aid to Israel totals approximately $4.271 annually, with $50 million added to that total by the unique system of giving Israel, alone among U.S. aid recipients, all of its aid at the beginning of each fiscal year instead of in four quarterly installments (see box on this page). In addition, Israel is receiving $2 billion in U.S. government loan guarantees annually. This brings the total of U.S. grants, interest and loan guarantees to Israel to $6.321 billion annually, which breaks down to $17,317,808 per day, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. Source (http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/1194/9411032.htm)


As for the settlements, 1. There are arab settlement too 2. Jews are allowed to build house and live where ever they feel like in their own lands, WB included.

1) Care to name one or provide some evidence of this?
2) WB is not Israeli land!

[minusthejihad]

I like that you conveniently write "Source" instead of "Washington Report on Middle East Affairs" which is an incredibly biased source that only supports the Palestinian view of the conflict. For those of you that want to see how biased this "source" is, please click on this resources link:

http://www.washington-report.org/html/resources.html

With "resources" like those, (I like how there are 2 pro-Palestinian student groups as sources, are these the ones that start riots in Montreal?), its no wonder its so anti-Israel.


And what does mean?

Israel Offered Freedom?
Israel Offends Freedomfighters?
Israel Offers Food?
Islam Often Fierce?
Islamists On Fire?
Israeli Organized Forces?
Islamists Originated Fraud?
Israel Only Free?

or

Idiot on Forum? Such as you?

[Israel98]

Originally posted by The Saint
Shooting at a hospital. Very naughty. Was any of the footage broadcast on US tv?


Yes Saint, the footage was broadcast on American TV. I saw the innocent and wounded Palestinians being helped into their stretchers on the evening news. Maybe you didn't see the footage, but many of these "innocent civilians" were still clutching their AK-47's and were dresssed in fatigues. The Arab PR campaign is so pathetic. How many times have they made public outcries like this and then the world sees the actual footage that proves them all to be liars? And as far as Kofi Anan condemning the attack, he is just another Muslim, so what kind of credibility does he have? Certainly none in America, but I'm sure he's a hero in the typical Arab terrorist countries.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
I like that you conveniently write "Source" instead of "Washington Report on Middle East Affairs" which is an incredibly biased source that only supports the Palestinian view of the conflict. For those of you that want to see how biased this "source" is, please click on this resources link:

http://www.washington-report.org/html/resources.html

With "resources" like those, (I like how there are 2 pro-Palestinian student groups as sources, are these the ones that start riots in Montreal?), its no wonder its so anti-Israel.


And what does mean?

Israel Offered Freedom?
Israel Offends Freedomfighters?
Israel Offers Food?
Islam Often Fierce?
Islamists On Fire?
Israeli Organized Forces?
Islamists Originated Fraud?
Israel Only Free?

or

Idiot on Forum? Such as you?

The Israeli Occupation Forces of course! But you already knew that! :rolleyes:

And as further proof of the Washington Reports bias, why not consider the following:

CNN World news
Israeli and Global News
Jerusalem Post
The White House
CIA
DefenseLINK
USS Liberty Memorial page
Jane's information group.

Thankyew

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


The Israeli Occupation Forces of course! But you already knew that! :rolleyes:

And as further proof of the Washington Reports bias, why not consider the following:

CNN World news
Israeli and Global News
Jerusalem Post
The White House
CIA
DefenseLINK
USS Liberty Memorial page
Jane's information group.

Thankyew

Israeli Occupation Forces - oh that's so cute. They have a name - IDF (Israel Defense Frces) so use it properly. If I was a soldier in the IDF or whatever recognized army, and you walked up to me with your snide analogy, I'd drop you like Malcolm X dropped the Nation of Islam in a heartbeat.

Once again, another armchair terrorist supporter hides behind his computer because he lacks the cohones to speak his slander directly to the faces of those he insults.

By the way, adding those links to their "resource list" is a faint attempt to gain credibility.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by minusthejihad


Israeli Occupation Forces - oh that's so cute. They have a name - IDF (Israel Defense Frces) so use it properly. If I was a soldier in the IDF or whatever recognized army, and you walked up to me with your snide analogy, I'd drop you like Malcolm X dropped the Nation of Islam in a heartbeat.

Once again, another armchair terrorist supporter hides behind his computer because he lacks the cohones to speak his slander directly to the faces of those he insults.

By the way, adding those links to their "resource list" is a faint attempt to gain credibility.

OOH OOH. All the way from San Diego CA, what was that stuff about hiding behind computers?

Certainly didn't have one of them while I was watching the terrorise children in Palestine.

:rolleyes:

[NewsGuy]

Back on topic, I'm glad to see Israel making real progress in its war against Palestinian terrorism.

Looks like the Palestinian mass murderers are in a state of disarray. Although, unfortunately, we haven't seen the last of the Islamic terrorism attacks, it sure does look like Israel is gaining, and life is returning to be much more normal than in the past 2 years, since the beginning of the latest Intifada-Jihad.

[Mediocrates]

yeah it didn't protect my friend from a bullet either.

[freethepeeps]

Yeah thanks for that really intelligent contribution to the debate Newsguy! :)

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


OOH OOH. All the way from San Diego CA, what was that stuff about hiding behind computers?

Certainly didn't have one of them while I was watching the terrorise children in Palestine.

:rolleyes:

Its funny how the site you link to on another forum(http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/) within your profile, Wombles(http://www.wombles.org.uk/), has a link to protecting yourself when you go to an anarchist march that advocates using an Israeli Gas Mask(http://free.freespeech.org/yabasta/protection.html).

I don't get it, do you always use the tools of the "oppresor" for your own benefits?

And secondly, I find it hard taking anything seriously from an anarchist. Also, just how were you witnessing the IDF errorising children in the West Bank? Dressed in a camel suit? Just how did the IDF go on "terrorising" children in front of some Brit in white overalls without ushering you right out of a resticted zone?

[freethepeeps]

Mediocrates

wanna tell us about the bullet? :confused:

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Yeah thanks for that really intelligent contribution to the debate Newsguy! :)

I'm glad to know that I have your approval.


I know that it must be very difficult for you to admit that the Palestinian Jihad against Israelis and Americans is ending with their defeat.

After all, what will be your next cause to yap about? Global trade? IMF? Fur coats?

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by minusthejihad


Its funny how the site you link to on another forum(http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/) within your profile, Wombles(http://www.wombles.org.uk/), has a link to protecting yourself when you go to an anarchist march that advocates using an Israeli Gas Mask(http://free.freespeech.org/yabasta/protection.html).

I don't get it, do you always use the tools of the "oppresor" for your own benefits?

And secondly, I find it hard taking anything seriously from an anarchist. Also, just how were you witnessing the IDF errorising children in the West Bank? Dressed in a camel suit? Just how did the IDF go on "terrorising" children in front of some Brit in white overalls without ushering you right out of a resticted zone?

OOH OOH GO FOR THE SMEAR TACTICS BIG BOY!!!

If I was trying to hide my identity, I would have used a different username D'OH!

Actually I was wearing trousers and a shirt, they were wearing so much, they couldn't run, poor loves!

And as for Israeli Gas Masks, I don't believe I ever wore one. Nor did I write that piece. And nor did the "usher" me out of anywhere!

So, I faced a mob of heavies, wearing a white paper suit and some sofa cuishons. And I faced the wearing trousers and a shirt.

Wanna tell me about hiding behind a computer BIG BOY?

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


OOH OOH GO FOR THE SMEAR TACTICS BIG BOY!!!

If I was trying to hide my identity, I would have used a different username D'OH!

Actually I was wearing trousers and a shirt, they were wearing so much, they couldn't run, poor loves!

And as for Israeli Gas Masks, I don't believe I ever wore one. Nor did I write that piece. And nor did the "usher" me out of anywhere!

So, I faced a mob of heavies, wearing a white paper suit and some sofa cuishons. And I faced the wearing trousers and a shirt.

Wanna tell me about hiding behind a computer BIG BOY?

You got beef? Bring it. I have no problem taking on smelly purplehaired dreadies who pose as great web developers while protesting everything from governments to the treatment of sheep, using skateboards and noserings as their ammo. I've been to a Grateful Dead concert before. No one takes your anti-establishment mumbo jumbo seriously when you need to drive a car made by the companies you protest to your anti-WTO rallies, or the Nikes you wear or the Nabisko brand food you eat. Hypocrites!

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by NewsGuy


I'm glad to know that I have your approval.


I know that it must be very difficult for you to admit that the Palestinian Jihad against Israelis and Americans is ending with their defeat.

After all, what will be your next cause to yap about? Global trade? IMF? Fur coats?

Now, now

All this stuff about "All they need to do is stop the suicide bombing" was lies right. Cos when they do, some brave warrior in LA starts crowing about their defeat - and thinks its all sewn up. :rolleyes: Perhaps you missed my thread about how children are defying the curfew and risking death to get a schooling. How their parents are opening shops and going to work anyway.

Hardly the actions of a defeated people, is it? Nope, you got it all wrong, there's a lot of life in the Palestinians yet, and Israel aint gonna get away with it.

My friend who grew up in America, asked me to ask you this:


How does it feel to know that the US media has lied to you all your life?

As for me, I intend to stick with the Palestinian question for a long time yet. There's a lot life left in me too.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by minusthejihad


You got beef? Bring it. I have no problem taking on smelly purplehaired dreadies who pose as great web developers while protesting everything from governments to the treatment of sheep, using skateboards and noserings as their ammo. I've been to a Grateful Dead concert before. No one takes your anti-establishment mumbo jumbo seriously when you need to drive a car made by the companies you protest to your anti-WTO rallies, or the Nikes you wear or the Nabisko brand food you eat. Hypocrites!

Blimey, you're very knowing about anarchy!

You know every stereotype in the book. :rolleyes:

Still, this isn't anarchyforum.com, is it now?

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


Blimey, you're very knowing about anarchy!

You know every stereotype in the book. :rolleyes:

Still, this isn't anarchyforum.com, is it now?

You are very right! Back to the subject at hand:

Well Done Israel! Another Great Campaign!

Here are some headlines from a Good Day in Israel:

"Defense Ministry says troops dismantled three West Bank settlement outposts"

"Sharon vows more Gaza raids"

"PA security officials hide from Hamas"

"IDF kills potential suicide bomber"


Briliant. Simply Briliant! What do you have to bitch about now, since that is your role.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


Now, now

All this stuff about "All they need to do is stop the suicide bombing" was lies right. Cos when they do, some brave warrior in LA starts crowing about their defeat - and thinks its all sewn up. :rolleyes: Perhaps you missed my thread about how children are defying the curfew and risking death to get a schooling. How their parents are opening shops and going to work anyway.

Hardly the actions of a defeated people, is it? Nope, you got it all wrong, there's a lot of life in the Palestinians yet, and Israel aint gonna get away with it.

My friend who grew up in America, asked me to ask you this:



As for me, I intend to stick with the Palestinian question for a long time yet. There's a lot life left in me too.


You used to have a point but now your're just blogging - you should stay on your own blog. I advocate you get kicked off.

[Mediocrates]

And that Prose Edda you posted should be removed.

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by Mediocrates



You used to have a point but now your're just blogging - you should stay on your own blog. I advocate you get kicked off.

Don't do that. At least FreethePerps gives www.israelforum.com free advertising on the http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/ Bulletin Board.

Plus, you can always get factual, realistic information from an Anarchist. Such as the latest techniques on being a Vegan, the coolest new trucks for your piece of plywood, the latest fad in combat boots, or techniques on "making it" with a girl who's pierced to high heaven without cutting your wanka off. Cool Blimey, Gobena!

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Mediocrates



You used to have a point but now your're just blogging - you should stay on your own blog. I advocate you get kicked off.

Thats not at all friendly mediocrates, is it?

Perhaps you'd like to say why you think the observations from Palestine should be removed. Are they inaccurate or something? They were written by an American woman who has been there for a while now, she seems to me to have a good understanding of what is happening there, and the thread has had 63 hits so far.

Perhaps you're saying that the purpose of these boards is not really "discussion and debate" at all. :(

Anyway, Newsguy thinks I'm a "useful platform" for informing the readership.

And minusthejihad, you're getting carried away with those stereotypes. I don't conform to your cosy little misconceptions at all. Maybe I'm the wrong kind of anarchist, or something. Anyway, as I already said, this isn't anarchyforum.com and I don't come here to discuss anarchy. I come here to discuss matters related to the occupation of Palestine, which is decidedly "on topic", no?

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


Thats not at all friendly mediocrates, is it?

Perhaps you'd like to say why you think the observations from Palestine should be removed. Are they inaccurate or something? They were written by an American woman who has been there for a while now, she seems to me to have a good understanding of what is happening there, and the thread has had 63 hits so far.

Perhaps you're saying that the purpose of these boards is not really "discussion and debate" at all. :(

Anyway, Newsguy thinks I'm a "useful platform" for informing the readership.

And minusthejihad, you're getting carried away with those stereotypes. I don't conform to your cosy little misconceptions at all. Maybe I'm the wrong kind of anarchist, or something. Anyway, as I already said, this isn't anarchyforum.com and I don't come here to discuss anarchy. I come here to discuss matters related to the occupation of Palestine, which is decidedly "on topic", no?


Sure, its right up your alley. Countries with organized goverments are BAD. Raving gangs of terrorists who rule by fear is GOOD.

Besides, Anarchy is exactly what a Palestinian state would consist of.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by freethepeeps


Thats not at all friendly mediocrates, is it?


No.

You don't want a topic you want a soapbox. Go back to your own blog and spam someone else.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by minusthejihad



Sure, its right up your alley. Countries with organized goverments are BAD. Raving gangs of terrorists who rule by fear is GOOD.

Besides, Anarchy is exactly what a Palestinian state would consist of.

You really don't understand the concept at all, do you? And I won't even waste my time trying to explain it to you here, cos this is not the forum for it.

My understanding of the Palestinian situation is that during and after the first Intifada, real, democratic institutions were being formed. Attempts to get people from those fledgling democratic institutions to negotiate away rights guaranteed by the Geneva Convention, during and after Madrid, failed So, the Israeli Government began meeting with the PLO in secret, and thus Oslo was born.

The Israeli state decided it would rather work with an authoritarian goat like Arafat, because he was prepared to make concessions, especially as he was operating without appropriate legal support. Only, he couldn't agree to all the demands, because there were still people who resisted the PA and what it stood for, and who opposed the illegal concessions that he made.

So, it seems that Israel was happier working with an authoritarian goat, than dealing with democratic bodies that actually represented the people. But hey, show me a Western leader who does represent the intersts of the people! It aint Bush, it aint Blair and it aint Sharon, is it?

Maybe you can tell me about a leader who represents people rather than his/her own interests, I'd be mightily interested to hear about it!

[Miriam]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
My understanding of the Palestinian situation is that during and after the first Intifada, real, democratic institutions were being formed. Attempts to get people from those fledgling democratic institutions to negotiate away rights guaranteed by the Geneva Convention, during and after Madrid, failed So, the Israeli Government began meeting with the PLO in secret, and thus Oslo was born.

The Israeli state decided it would rather work with an authoritarian goat like Arafat, because he was prepared to make concessions, especially as he was operating without appropriate legal support. Only, he couldn't agree to all the demands, because there were still people who resisted the PA and what it stood for, and who opposed the illegal concessions that he made.

So, it seems that Israel was happier working with an authoritarian goat, than dealing with democratic bodies that actually represented the people.Funny that a part of the Israeli "right wing" shares this notion.

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by Miriam
Funny that a part of the Israeli "right wing" shares this notion.

Care to expand?

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
All this stuff about "All they need to do is stop the suicide bombing" was lies right.

Awwww... More deep disappointment that the Palestinian mass murderers are losing their Jihad. I know it breaks your heart, but when you eventually turn 14, everything might look different to you.


I should start a thread called "More bogus causes for Palestinian terrorism supporters to yap about when the Jihadists are defeated."

Here are some suggestions with equal social benefit:

1. Free Willy
2. Save the mildew
3. Children against Barney
4. Demand to remove broccoli from school lunches

This program sponsored by the letter "O" and the maker of Campbells' alphabet soup. :)

[alexbmn]

guys there's no point arguing with supporters of terrorism.This war is not a war of words,the one thing that matters what is being done on the battefield .This loser will cry a sea of tears when the IDF will eventually go into Gaza and clean it.The Pals are quite proud of the score being only 3-1 in Israel favor. The operation in Gaza will stretch that ratio.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by freethepeeps
Care to expand?Check out the comments and proposals of Sharansky (there were related discussions on this forum too)

[freethepeeps]

Originally posted by alexbmn
guys there's no point arguing with supporters of terrorism.This war is not a war of words,the one thing that matters what is being done on the battefield .This loser will cry a sea of tears when the IDF will eventually go into Gaza and clean it.The Pals are quite proud of the score being only 3-1 in Israel favor. The operation in Gaza will stretch that ratio.

Cool, I'm the "supporter of terror", and you're the one crowing about "stretching the ratio", while at the same time Newsguy is declaring the Intifada lost and the Israelis the victors.

So, are you saying that the Israelis aren't even going to pretend that they're responding to "terror" anymore.

[Mediocrates]

Well you are a supporter in a way. You have noble reasons, but then so did Robespierre. We all do. Welcome.

[alexbmn]

It hasnt won yet but the situaiton is improving.The number of attempted attacks has decreased, the number of successfull attacks has plummeted,and the number of Israeli dead has fallen from 110 in March to 15 in September. Oh and Mahmoud abu Hanoud,Muhamed Taher,Salah Shehada,Nasser Jerar are currently being abused by 72 devils in hell.Mahammed Deif is nearly blind,is having trouble recovering and soon he and his Pal aL Rantisi will join the party.

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by alexbmn
It hasnt won yet but the situaiton is improving.The number of attempted attacks has decresed, the number of successfull attacks has plummeted,and the number of Israeli dead has fallen from 110 in March to 15 in September. Oh and Mahmoud abu Hanoud,Muhamed Taher,Salah Shehada,Nasser Jerar are currently being abused by 72 devils in hell.Mahammed Deif is nearly blind,is having trouble recovering and soon he and his Pal aL Rantisi will join the party.

I can't wait. Being plucked off like ducks at a duck shoot. Guess maybe you shouldn't play with fire.

[alexbmn]

and the "lulls " ( period when the army is almost completely succesfull in intercepting homicide bombers and shooters) are getting more frequent and are growing in length.

[alexbmn]

MinusJihad, by the way there a pretty good site I found in Russian, Mignews.com that has pretty extensive coverage on the Middle East.Very frequent updates.

[IsraelAdvocate]

Originally posted by The Saint
The last people to attack were the Israelis. The Palestinians did not counter and Israel attacked again. I dont care what your excuses are there is no excuse to open fire on civilians. Thats murder. And dont go on about defencive action. The two people that they went into get they didnt get. So they didnt get who they wanted and they killed a bunch of civilians and injured over 80 more but it was a resounding success.

The IDF takes great pains and suffered great losses when it entered Jenin in April 2002. The total casualties for Jenin were all of 60 people, mostly armed militants. Israel lost 20 soldiers.
Israel did not have to put them in harms way, but the military felt it was necessary to take greater risks with regards to casualties than to have large numbers of civillian deaths.

Israel can simply bomb from the sky, if killing indiscriminantley was thier objective. In two years of conflict, 1000 Palestinians have been killed. If Israel unleashes it's military might, they will many thousands. Obveously, Israel is using restraint.

As for the "excuse to fire on civilains", how much do you complain when Palestinian Suicide Bombers murder 20 Israeli civillians at a time. I've never read a post from you where you condemn the Palestinians for TARGETING civilians. Or do Israeli civilains not count for you?

In either case, Israel can, must, and always will defend it's self.