View Full Version : Corruption in Israel
danholo
10-26-2002, 05:07 AM
Some Israelis are telling me that corruption in Israel is bad.
They say that some ministers in the government get $10,000 a month and some stay in five star hotels costing at $1000 a day!
Found this from Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2000/06/01/Features/Features.7638.html):
Of the 99 countries TI surveyed last year, Cameroon ranked 99 as the most corrupt, while Denmark was given the highest mark as the most honest nation. Israel came in at 20, dropping from 19 the previous year. In fact, since TI began monitoring Israel in 1996 - when it was ranked 14 - Israel has consistently slipped in the TI corruption rating.
So, what is being or should be done Israel to stop this decline?
MiniMizer
10-26-2002, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by danholo
So, what is being or should be done Israel to stop this decline?
A revolution?
danholo
10-26-2002, 06:03 AM
Originally posted by MiniMizer
A revolution?
Well, no. I just didn't know corruption in Israel was "wide spread". Just wanted to know how it has effected the State itself and what is being done about it? Is law enforcement doing anything or are they corrupt too?
Miriam
10-26-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by MiniMizer
A revolution? Funny, I've been thinking the same for some time now ;)
Miriam
10-26-2002, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by danholo
Well, no. I just didn't know corruption in Israel was "wide spread". Just wanted to know how it has effected the State itself and what is being done about it? Is law enforcement doing anything or are they corrupt too?There is no such thing as private-sector-only corruption, I'm afraid ;)
NewsGuy
10-26-2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by danholo
Of the 99 countries TI surveyed last year, Cameroon ranked 99 as the most corrupt, while Denmark was given the highest mark as the most honest nation. Israel came in at 20...
Well, if Israel is 20th from 99, it means that Israel is in the 80% percentile for being above board. That's really not bad. Not as good as it should be, but not exactly a crisis.
Taking into account the corporate corruption and bribery that goes on right here in the U.S. and throughout the world, I would say that there are bad apples in every society.
At the same time, there are people dedicated to exposing corruption and Israel's legal system is well set up to uncover and prosecute these crimes, which it does all the time.
Matzoh Ball
12-25-2002, 08:47 PM
OK as a matter of reference, where does the USA rank on that scale? The USA, I'm sure everyone knows, has numerous and all-pervasive racial perks and set-asides, conferring HUGE advantages or disadvantages on one, depending on one's skin color, in college financial assistance, business contracting "points", housing financing, etc. Many of us are not from the USA, but a LOT of us are, let's get some perspective here. I'm willing to bet the situation, if it exists, in Israel is MINOR compared to the USA.
Originally posted by Matzoh Ball
OK as a matter of reference, where does the USA rank on that scale? The USA, I'm sure everyone knows, has numerous and all-pervasive racial perks and set-asides, conferring HUGE advantages or disadvantages on one, depending on one's skin color, in college financial assistance, business contracting "points", housing financing, etc. Many of us are not from the USA, but a LOT of us are, let's get some perspective here. I'm willing to bet the situation, if it exists, in Israel is MINOR compared to the USA.
The USA is ranked 16th while Israel is tied at 18 with Germany
http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2002/dnld/cpi2002.pressrelease.en.pdf
Mediocrates
12-31-2002, 04:48 AM
I couldn't find a single arab or predominately muslim country on th list. Talk about front loading the data!
jmjaffe
11-09-2005, 11:57 PM
The roots of the problems of corruption in Israel are inextricably linked to the roots of political empowerment. Israel has a "proportional" system of elections for legislators and no effective separation between the legislative and executive branches of government - hence no effective protection agains abuses of power. The proportional system has instilled an operating principle that democracy is the means to accumulate political power and distribute public resources via a system of patronage.
There is a way to remedy this. If you want to learn about the solution, check out the following website:
http://www.directrepisrael.org/EN
Some Israelis are telling me that corruption in Israel is bad.
They say that some ministers in the government get $10,000 a month and some stay in five star hotels costing at $1000 a day!
Found this from Jerusalem Post (http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2000/06/01/Features/Features.7638.html):
Of the 99 countries TI surveyed last year, Cameroon ranked 99 as the most corrupt, while Denmark was given the highest mark as the most honest nation. Israel came in at 20, dropping from 19 the previous year. In fact, since TI began monitoring Israel in 1996 - when it was ranked 14 - Israel has consistently slipped in the TI corruption rating.
So, what is being or should be done Israel to stop this decline?
Israel is no more corrupt than Europe. The difference however is that for the Jews to criticize the Israel and their government is as important as eating or breathing.
..............and you thought you understood the Jews....
Israel is no more corrupt than Europe. The difference however is that for the Jews to criticize the Israel and their government is as important as eating or breathing.
..............and you thought you understood the Jews....
What part of Europe are you talking about?
Scandinavia leads every other part of the world in terms of not being currupt, the rest of Europe is either about equal, or not as good as Israel.
Russia is pretty high in terms of dishonesty on the curruption list I think.
Mediocrates
11-11-2005, 08:11 AM
I submit the evaluations themselves are culturally biased. Go to Mexico for example and you see that regulation is considered corruption because it usually results in extra taxes but essentially is a kind of graft. Europe sees regulation in and of itself good even when it's silly or counterproductive.
Justcurious
11-11-2005, 08:43 AM
The USA is ranked 16th while Israel is tied at 18 with Germany
http://www.transparency.org/pressreleases_archive/2002/dnld/cpi2002.pressrelease.en.pdf
Your list refers to old lists, this is the 2005 one: http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2005/dnld/media_pack_en.pdf
Israel is 28th, even further down.
Justcurious
11-11-2005, 08:48 AM
Rpt.
What part of Europe are you talking about?
Scandinavia leads every other part of the world in terms of not being currupt, the rest of Europe is either about equal, or not as good as Israel.
Russia is pretty high in terms of dishonesty on the curruption list I think.
Up to this point Scandinavia has been a relatively homogenious society. Give it 10-20 years. The Scandinavian, Dutch, Belgium demography is changing. It is would be interesting to see how they step out their doors and be right in Gaza. France has already gotten a little taste of it. Factor in the population number of the Scandinavian countries vs the rest of Europe and you will see the real picture of the European corruption.
Mediocrates
11-11-2005, 09:33 AM
Your list refers to old lists, this is the 2005 one: http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2005/dnld/media_pack_en.pdf
Israel is 28th, even further down.
Well one would expect that top down centralized governments, even benign ones would have less latitude and far more control. On the other hand corruption hasn't stopped Italy, South Korea and Jordan from growing. So I want to say that corruption is a secondary index. One would have to correlate it to something else to see what if anything it had any bearing on. On its own it's what we like to call a dimensionless variable. What effect or driver would you think that this corruption variable has a bearing on?
Justcurious
11-11-2005, 11:19 AM
What effect or driver would you think that this corruption variable has a bearing on?
Corruption, regardless of any bearings, is unacceptable per se!
Mediocrates
11-11-2005, 11:22 AM
Why is that?
Justcurious
11-11-2005, 11:25 AM
Why is that?
Obviously people think differently in different parts of the world. Here in the north, corruption is unacceptable in all forms.
Mediocrates
11-11-2005, 11:36 AM
Why? If you need to build a road to get access to a piece of land in order to build a hydro damn, why is it necessarily bad if you have to pay off some warlord. The alternative is the work doesn't get done.
Justcurious
11-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Why? If you need to build a road to get access to a piece of land in order to build a hydro damn, why is it necessarily bad if you have to pay off some warlord. The alternative is the work doesn't get done.
Your principle may seem right, but is that the way you want to carry out all projects? Even one mistake will lead to many more.
You little anti-Semitic bugs are funny. Is there anything else negative about Israel that you want to point out?
There are 22 Arab states occupying the landmass twice as big as the USA. Do you have anything negative to say about any of them?
....and how about Europe? What is happening in Malmo, Sweden?
Justcurious
11-12-2005, 03:27 AM
You little anti-Semitic bugs are funny. Is there anything else negative about Israel that you want to point out?
There are 22 Arab states occupying the landmass twice as big as the USA. Do you have anything negative to say about any of them?
....and how about Europe? What is happening in Malmo, Sweden?
I trust the first sentence does not refer to me, because it would not be correct. The reason why I am posting this concerns the city of Malmoe.
Although I may be geographically closer, we are probably equally ignorant about daily life in that city. Nothing much is said about the town, often only about football and, in particular, Malmö FF, where Jari Litmanen, a countryman, plays.
According to the home page of the city, nothing special is happening there at the moment nor have I heard anything from news agencies. You may be better informed or even visited the city.
http://www.malmo.se/servicemeny/cityofmalmo.4.33aee30d103b8f15916800021923.html
nuttie
11-21-2005, 07:32 PM
The roots of the problems of corruption in Israel are inextricably linked to the roots of political empowerment. Israel has a "proportional" system of elections for legislators and no effective separation between the legislative and executive branches of government - hence no effective protection agains abuses of power. The proportional system has instilled an operating principle that democracy is the means to accumulate political power and distribute public resources via a system of patronage.
There is a way to remedy this. If you want to learn about the solution, check out the following website:
http://www.directrepisrael.org/EN
Spot on, jmjaffe. I entirely agree and am looking up your link. See also my post #17 here (http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php?p=170687#post170687).
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