Stopislam.com

[Simon]

An absolutely wonderful site. Do peruse it completely. I am just adding the URL for the section that compares Jewish achievements vs islamic achievements (thats' really an oxymoron, islamic achievements is, but thats' a whole other topic).

http://www.stopislam.com/articles/contributions.html

Also check the humor section.

[Religion-bashing "humor" deleted.]

Arafat and The Prime minister of Israel

At the negotiating table ...
Arafat and the Israeli Prime Minister finally agree to sit down and resolve the issue of who is the legitimate owner of the disputed lands. The Prime Minister asks if he may start with a story and Arafat agrees.

"Well," says the Prime Minister, "before the Israelites settled in the Promise Land, Moses led them through the desert for 40 years. The Israelites began complaining that they were thirsty and low and behold, a miracle occurred and a stream appeared before them. They drank their fill and decided to take a refreshing bath, including Moses. When he came out of the water, he discovered that all of his clothes were missing."

"Who took my clothes?" Moses asked. "It was the Palestinians," replied the Israelites.

At this point, Arafat interrupted and said, "Wait a minute. There were no Palestinians during the time of Moses !"

"All right," replies the Prime Minister, "now that we have that settled, let's begin our negotiations." :D :D

[IlyaFurman]

This is coming from a person that has one false quote from the koran, and one totally out of context verse from the koran, I am not suprised at all.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Simon
An absolutely wonderful site. Do peruse it completely. I am just adding the URL for the section that compares Jewish achievements vs islamic achievements (thats' really an oxymoron, islamic achievements is, but thats' a whole other topic).

http://www.stopislam.com/articles/contributions.html



Beautiful! I just loved the part about Nobel prize very much:

Nobel Prize Winners:

Literature
1957 Albert Camus
1988 - Najib Mahfooz 1988.

Peace
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yaser Arafat (yeah, I know)

Chemistry
1990 Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewail

Medicine
1960 Peter Brian Medawar
1998 Ferid Mourad

You should, however, add that 3 out of these 9 have gone through an assassination attempt or were actually assassinated.

Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat – was assassinated by Islamic groups
Najib Mahfooz – failed assassination attempt by Islamic groups
Yaser Arafat - failed assassination attempt(s) by.. Everyone! Even his own people!

[cerulean]

Some of the Arab names listed are Christian Arabs or secular, not Muslim.

For example, for Elias James Corey, from his autobiography:
http://www.nobel.se/chemistry/laureates/1990/corey-autobio.html
My grandparents on both sides, who emigrated from Lebanon to the United States, also knew how to cope with adversity, as Christians in a tragically torn country, under the grip of the Ottoman empire.

Peter Brian Medawar was born of a British mother and Lebanese father in Brazil.(http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2612/life.htm). That combination, in addition to his name, makes it unlikely he is Muslim.

I also don't see any evidence that Albert Camus was Muslim (http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/camus.asp), although he was born of French parents in Algeria.

[Outsider]

A site similar to the Stopislam site is the following one which discloses some "facts" about Mormonism: http://www.carm.net/lds/lds_doctrines.htm

There have been good businessmen who have invented such religions as Islam, Mormonism and Moonism. We should bear in mind that we are only talking of "beliefs". Anyone who believes differently is also a believer, he or she just believes in something else.

[soral]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
one totally out of context verse from the koran

Out of context??? how can you take it out of bloody context? kill all infidels... but don't take it out of context!

Stop being an apologist for Islam and get real. I was once a bledding heart liberal like yourself, if you appraoch things objectively there is no need to feel bad for realisng the Islam is a religion that teaches hatred. You are not a racist for criticising Islam - the truth is not racist

I hate that liberals refuse to condemn Islam for oppressing women... in fact oppression is too kind a word for it...

[Ezra]

Originally posted by soral
Out of context??? how can you take it out of bloody context? kill all infidels... but don't take it out of context!

Stop being an apologist for Islam and get real. I was once a bledding heart liberal like yourself, if you appraoch things objectively there is no need to feel bad for realisng the Islam is a religion that teaches hatred. You are not a racist for criticising Islam - the truth is not racist

I hate that liberals refuse to condemn Islam for oppressing women... in fact oppression is too kind a word for it...

Soral,
Don't bother yourself. Have you forgotten that he is not allowed to think in Islam? He must wait for a Fatwa to think for him!

:D :D :D

[Ezra]

Good point Cerulean.

Actually I saw many references define Albert Camus as a French philosopher. Regardless of anything, there is no question that no Muslim is called "Albert".

Of course Elias James Corey is Christian and definitely the same for Peter Brian Medawar.

As for Ferid Mourad, it's so hard to tell from the name.

But this is not the main issue. Look how many of these people made their achievement in their own MUSLIM country:

Albert Camus : France and considered French.
Elias James Corey : USA in Harvard University Cambridge, MA, USA and he carries US nationality.
Ahmed Zewail : USA in Caltech and carries US nationality
Peter Brian Medawar : United Kingdom, University College London, United Kingdom
Ferid Mourad : University of Texas Medical School at Houston Houston, TX, USA

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by soral
Out of context??? how can you take it out of bloody context? kill all infidels... but don't take it out of context!

Stop being an apologist for Islam and get real. I was once a bledding heart liberal like yourself, if you appraoch things objectively there is no need to feel bad for realisng the Islam is a religion that teaches hatred. You are not a racist for criticising Islam - the truth is not racist

I hate that liberals refuse to condemn Islam for oppressing women... in fact oppression is too kind a word for it...

9:5::
This verse came in SURAT TAWBA.. thsi Sura came as a final ultimatum against Quraish who broke the treaty of Hudaybiya and attacked and killed muslim preachers sent by the prophet to preach in some arabian tribes, So Sura was revealed

HERE IS THE CONTEXT OF THE VERSE
SURA 9
1.Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty.
[See becasue the idolators of Mecca broke the treaty, God freed the muslims from observing it]

2.Travel freely in the land four months, and know that ye cannot escape Allah and that Allah will confound the disbelievers (in His Guidance).
And gave them four month to review themselves, and prepare them selves, not attacking immeditly

3.And a proclamation from Allah and His messenger to all men on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that Allah is free from obligation to the idolaters, and (so is) His messenger. So, if ye repent, it will be better for you; but if ye are averse, then know that ye cannot escape Allah. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve,

4.Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).
See the prove.. a clear expetion to those idolators who did not break the treaty, and order from god to observe the treaties between muslims and non-muslims.. See islam, Quran does not encourage war

5.Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful
Here is the verse you've quoted.. see when you read the whole context, you realize that it is no Bloody, nor agressive

6.And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

and even those who broke the treaty, god gives them a chance if the sought the proptection of the prophet, even if they did not become muslim.. so they can hear the words of God.. and this indicates clearly that islam preaches by means of peace

7.How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty.
Clear non-agression message.. BE true to them as far as they are true to you

8.How (can there be any treaty for the others) when, if they have the upper hand of you, they regard not pact nor honour in respect of you? They satisfy you with their mouths the while their hearts refuse. And most of them are wrongdoers.
Clearly stating the reason

9.They have purchased with the revelations of Allah a little gain, so they debar (men) from His way. Lo! evil is that which they are wont to do.

10.And they observe toward a believer neither pact nor honour. These are they who are transgressors.
[reason]

11.But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.
another reason to forgive + seeking protection[b]

12.And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.
[b]i hope by now you realise that all the sura is about those who broke the treaty

13.Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first? What! Fear ye them? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers

[IlyaFurman]

in context changes everything doesnt it, and it was time specific, we know that when it says "when the sacred months have pased" it is not for today, is was for that day.

[IlyaFurman]

here are some interpertations of the samepassage from the quran that wasnt time specific, how is this babraic?

1. Yusuf Ali
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2. M.M. Pickthall
Lo! those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

3. Noble Qur'an (Muhsin Khan/Hilali)
Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

4. Saheeh International
Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

5. M. Farooq-i-Azam Malik
Rest Assured that Believers (Muslims), Jews, Christians and Sabians - whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and performs good deeds - will be rewarded by their Rabb; they will have nothing to fear or to regret.

6. M. Asad
Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabeans - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.

7. A. Bewley
Those with iman, those who are Jews, and the Christians and Sabaeans, all who have iman in Allah and the Last Day and act rightly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow.

8. T.B. Irving
Those who believe and those who are Jews, Christians and Sabeans, [in fact] anyone who believes in God and the Last Day, and acts honorably will receive their earnings from their Lord: no fear will lie upon them nor need they feel saddened.

9. M.H. Shakir
Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

10. A.J. Arberry
Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabaeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness, their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.

11. N.J. Dawood
Believers, Jews, Christians and Sabaeans - whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does what is right - shall be rewarded by their Lord; they have nothing to fear or regret.

12. Ahmed Ali
Surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareans and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret.

13. M. Daryabadi
Surely those who believe and those who are Judaized and Nazarene and Sabaean, whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and works righteously - their wage is with their Lord, and no fear shall come on them nor shall they grieve.

14. S. Mawdudi
Rest assured that whosoever from among the Muslims or the Jews or the Christians or the Sabaeans believes in 'Allah and the Last Day, and performs good deeds, he will have his reward with his Lord and he will have no cause for fear and grief.

15. Allamah Nooruddin
Surely, those who (profess to) believe (in Islam), and those who follow the Jewish faith, the Christians and the Sabians, whosoever (of these truly) believes in Allah and the Last Day and acts righteously shall have their reward with their Lord, and shall have nothing to fear, nor shall they grieve.

16. Zidan & Zidan
Surely, those who believe in God and follow the Qur'an (Muslims) and those who (before Islam) were guided from among the Jews, and those who (before Islam) followed Jesus' true message from among the Christians, and those who (before Islam) were Sabeans (montheists), whoever believes in God and the Last Day and performs deeds of righteousness, they shall have their reward with their Lord, no fear shall be on them, nor shall they grieve.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by cerulean
I also don't see any evidence that Albert Camus was Muslim (http://www.tameri.com/csw/exist/camus.asp), although he was born of French parents in Algeria.


yeah he was a muslim, and represented muslim concerns.

But he was a smart one, he spoke out against muslim extremists every chance he got.

[whereamigod]

My God, is this all you people have to do everyday? Post links to sites calling for the end of Islam with fake quotes of the Quran?
You have the right of free speech, but the next time someone states an anti-semetic remark, remember, you're just like him. Except, at least he knows it.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
yeah he was a muslim, and represented muslim concerns.
But he was a smart one, he spoke out against muslim extremists every chance he got.

Do you have any evidence Camus was Muslim? I read The Stranger by Camus not too long ago - no indication in that book if I recall correctly. His prevailing philosophy seemed to be secular existentialism in the French tradition.

[victot]

the nobel prize comparison was neat...
but the site is a tad too mean-spirited, i think.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by cerulean
Do you have any evidence Camus was Muslim? I read The Stranger by Camus not too long ago - no indication in that book if I recall correctly. His prevailing philosophy seemed to be secular existentialism in the French tradition.


Maybe like Mendelssohn was Jewish perhaps? A coupla generations back? Camus was of Algerian ancestry, no? But I'd be hard pressed to think that the author of "The Plague" was muslim. That's like saying Pirandello was Catholic. ;)

[ibrodsky]

I find the site amateurish and puerile.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by cerulean
Do you have any evidence Camus was Muslim? I read The Stranger by Camus not too long ago - no indication in that book if I recall correctly. His prevailing philosophy seemed to be secular existentialism in the French tradition.

In yahoo.com or something, type in Camus Muslim, i found an article on how he really cared about muslim rights and hated muslim extremism.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
yeah he was a muslim, and represented muslim concerns.

But he was a smart one, he spoke out against muslim extremists every chance he got.

Albert and a Muslim???? Give our minds a break!!!!!!

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by Ezra
Albert and a Muslim???? Give our minds a break!!!!!!

You really dont know anything do you, here you go

Albert Camus,son of a working-class family, was born in Algeria in 1913. He spent the early years of his life in North Africa, where he worked a various jobs--in the weather bureau, in an automobile-accessory firm, in a shipping company--to help pay for his courses at the University of Algiers. He then turned to journalism as a career. His report on the unhappy state of the Muslims of the Kabylie region aroused the Algerian government to action and brought him public notice. From 1935 to 1938 he ran the Theatre de l'Equipe, a theatrical company that produced plays by Malraux, Gide, Synge, Dostoevski, and others. During World War II he was one of the leading writers of the French Resistance and editor of Combat, then an important underground newspaper.

http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2F Athens%2FAegean%2F1311%2Fcamus.html

[cerulean]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
You really dont know anything do you, here you go

Albert Camus,son of a working-class family, ...
http://atheism.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2F Athens%2FAegean%2F1311%2Fcamus.html

From what I've read, Albert Camus was the son of French immigrants to Algeria (one parent apparently also had Spanish ancestry). So no Algerian ancestry. The above site implies he was an atheist. No reputable site I have looked at indicates he was a Muslim. He was leftist, maybe even a communist, and he was concerned about the inhabitants of Algeria, most of whom, of course, are Muslims, but he was concerned from an outside perspective. I'm 99% sure he wasn't a Muslim. However, in the next few days, I'll try to get ahold of an authoritative biography to put this question to rest.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by cerulean
From what I've read, Albert Camus was the son of French immigrants to Algeria (one parent apparently also had Spanish ancestry). So no Algerian ancestry. The above site implies he was an atheist. No reputable site I have looked at indicates he was a Muslim. He was leftist, maybe even a communist, and he was concerned about the inhabitants of Algeria, most of whom, of course, are Muslims, but he was concerned from an outside perspective. I'm 99% sure he wasn't a Muslim. However, in the next few days, I'll try to get ahold of an authoritative biography to put this question to rest.

Yeap Ill look into it too, but he really cared about Muslim affairs in Algeria, so he must have been muslim.

Oh well...

[cerulean]

Originally posted by IlyaFurman
Yeap Ill look into it too, but he really cared about Muslim affairs in Algeria, so he must have been muslim.


Is this dry humor? Many non-Muslims are concerned about the well-being of Muslims, both now and then. Many charities, primarily funded by non-Muslims, work actively to assist Muslims in Muslim countries.

It's not surprising that Camus would be concerned about the well-being of Algerians, since that is where he was born.

[IlyaFurman]

Originally posted by cerulean
Is this dry humor? Many non-Muslims are concerned about the well-being of Muslims, both now and then. Many charities, primarily funded by non-Muslims, work actively to assist Muslims in Muslim countries.

It's not surprising that Camus would be concerned about the well-being of Algerians, since that is where he was born.

No dry humor, you are rite though, just cause he cares about muslims doesnt make him muslim.

[whereamigod]

Camus was obviously not a practising muslim. If you actually read his books, you would see that his views in his novel and the beliefs of Islam are completely different. Please ladies and gentleman, like the IDF, stupidity is a killer.

[elke]

AFAIK, Albert Camus is considered to be an Existentialist philosopher, with no discernable religion, but a humanistic approach to life. Whatever his background is - does it really matter? Has anyone read "The Plague" - even in translation, it's one of the most powerful, life-affirming books on this planet!