Photo: Palestinians with swastika flag [Archive]

Mike Kilo (4X)

05-17-2002, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by fair
dear L@mplighterM
this is the wrong culture they are feeding to you
tried to cultivate hatred in yr hearts against others .. especialy arabs

moslems and arabs respict all religions include jewish religion
but we dislike unfair acts

Dear Fair,
your argument's logic is understandable but feable. Before, much before, the actions of Sharon there was Hatred and suicide bombers. take it further out - Why is it that most suicide bombers are Muslim? how many Sharons are there in the world? who was Sharon when the muslim blew themselves up in Lebanon against Christians? are Clinton or George bush a sort of Sharon that teased Muhammed Atta to fly a civilian jet into the WTC?

there is a huge fault in the way Muslim, and specificly palestinians are being brought up. yes, Israel has some part in that - but the biggest enemy of the Muslim and, again, specificly Palestinians is the fundamentalist Terrorism.

Fundamentalists like Ahmed Yassin and others are sending YOUR suns and daughters to go and kill themselves with as many Israelis as possible... The myth of the Martyr the Shaheed as a role model for the children is what makes becoming a suicide bomber respectable and common - and that's why there are so many kids willing to kill themselves! there are many ways to protest against injustice. Monks in the far east would burn themselves. in most countries a demonstration is the popular way... only in muslim countries or societies it is common to go blow yourself up. Think about it.

Morpheus

05-17-2002, 01:39 PM

The swastika has been used over and over again. It's not only Islam who use swastika, have you ever seen the movie "American history X". Now tell me how western society reacts on this ... let it happen.

Here's a picture I found on the ADL site.

Mediocrates

05-20-2002, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Morpheus
The swastika has been used over and over again. It's not only Islam who use swastika, have you ever seen the movie "American history X". Now tell me how western society reacts on this ... let it happen.

Here's a picture I found on the ADL site.

I guess we could bury you wrapped in one then.

Morpheus

05-20-2002, 10:05 AM

I said that not only Muslims use the Swastika, it's mainly skinheads. And these Skindsheads are really not the guys to represent what the people in Europe think. Swastika is an illegal symbol here, I also said. Most people are horrified of seeing it.

Using it would not give you any sympathy among the people. Bringing up the Swastika is a bad thing therefor.

The only ones still using Swastika are a bunch of skinheads (lowlifes) all over the world, in Europe, America, and as I discovered today on TV; even in Russia.

I guess we could bury you wrapped in one then.

Why do you always twist my words and make it in to something you want to hear yourself! It's really pissing me off, you know!
Read my words, and don't come with that **** anymore you made up yourself!!

kauffner

05-20-2002, 07:27 PM

In Korea and Japan, the counterclockwise swastika is everywhere. (It's like the Nazi symbol, but reversed.) The swastika is a Buddhist symbol here, used the same way Christians use the cross or Jews use the Star of David. It's been used by Nintendo and also put on Pokemon cards, although ADL protests have kept such items out of the U.S. I hope Europeans aren't too shocked when they come here to see their teams play in the World Cup next month.

Mike Kilo (4X)

05-21-2002, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by kauffner
In Korea and Japan, the counterclockwise swastika is everywhere. (It's like the Nazi symbol, but reversed.) ... I hope Europeans aren't too shocked when they come here to see their teams play in the World Cup next month.

So, let me see if I got it right:

clockwise swastika - good,
counter-clockwise swastika - bad?

the swastika originally was a sign of luck - I think it had to do with an ancient god or german myth, until Adolf Hitler decided to adopt it as his party's symbol.

let them draw and use all the swastika's they want - and any way they want them. as digusted as I am by what it represents (to me as an Israeli, a jew, a citizen of this world and above all a man) at least that way people get reminded of the nazi party and what it meant - and for the very least it gives all of us, who do remember the nazi party and the holocaust, a chance to talk about it - and remind those who forgot, chose to forgot or wish it hadn't happened so badly that they deny it did...

maybe Some day, when Israel's football team is good enough, we might get to see a game where the david star gets to defeat the swastika. and either way when that day comes, we will still be there to remind people of a dictator name Adolf and his Ideology - and it's meaning and consequences.

wouldn't you agree?

Mediocrates

05-23-2002, 05:41 AM

I own a copy of American History X - do you not understand it is used as a negative symbol? The character has it tatooed on his chest as an emblem of his hatred. But still he is stained by it even after turning his life around. It's a metaphor for unredeemable sin.

If you want to wave one around, that's great. Go change the laws of France and stop complaining that we have rights you don't.

What you said was like, and excuse the **** out of me for drawing an actual conclusion: "well heck, the hangman's rope has been used as a legitimate device in American jurisprudence, there is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to walk around a black neighborhood with one, showing it to all the people there and explaining how it was used."

Batman

05-25-2002, 11:57 PM

http://www.israelemb.org/palestinians_martyrsrealmodem.html

CONCLUSION:The United Nations is the legitimizing organization of Palestinian-Arab-Militant-Islamic terrorism/suicide homicide factories and human bombs against the innocent people of the Israel, the US and the world.

THE INJUSTICE IS GLARING After the most recent MASSACRE in Rishon Letzion which killed 16 people and wounded 60, the U.N. had the audacity to CONDEMN ISRAEL the very next day. The vote was 74-4 with 54 abstentions.
There were no votes condemning Palestinian terrorism.

URGE THE UN TO INVESTIGATE PALESTINIAN TERROR IMMEDIATELY

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/303588867

Mediocrates

06-27-2002, 10:13 AM

Why is this thread always at the top of the heap?

A Boy

06-30-2002, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by fair
what Mr. Sharoon's doing also ..like bloodshed, killing pelastinians
provoke them to be bomber suicides to kill innocent israelis also consider terrorism and nazist
the losers only palestinians and israelis people

no one provokes them to be suicide bombers more than their parents and teachers.

killing palestinians? the israelis are dying too.
palestinians have been killed since the intifada started, you can blame only them because they started the intifada who's far away from being just stones.

A Boy

06-30-2002, 05:14 AM

and the world says that israel is racist. the world should see this pic.

James

07-02-2002, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Batman
http://www.israelemb.org/palestinians_martyrsrealmodem.html

CONCLUSION:The United Nations is the legitimizing organization of Palestinian-Arab-Militant-Islamic terrorism/suicide homicide factories and human bombs against the innocent people of the Israel, the US and the world.

THE INJUSTICE IS GLARING After the most recent MASSACRE in Rishon Letzion which killed 16 people and wounded 60, the U.N. had the audacity to CONDEMN ISRAEL the very next day. The vote was 74-4 with 54 abstentions.
There were no votes condemning Palestinian terrorism.

URGE THE UN TO INVESTIGATE PALESTINIAN TERROR IMMEDIATELY

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/303588867

Right, the U.N. should should condemn Palestinian Terrorism,but
i wouldn't hold our breath waiting for them to act! It seems the U.N. always supports Arab states when it involves Terrorism!

Israelforever

11-25-2002, 05:44 PM

Fair, interesting name, it seems that you are anything but. You almost entirely fit the stereotype of French and most European people. That stereotype being an anti-Semit or as you probably refer to it, anti-Zionism or anti-Israeli. Would you describe yourself as a Holochaust denier as well. Try these facts instead of your fiction.
There is no such thing as a Palestinian. Palestinian seized to exist in 1948 when the British mandate of Palestine came to an end resulting in the creation of Israel for the Jewish People and Trans-Jordan for the former Palestinian Arabs. Any person Arab or Jew living within the mandate were Palestinians. Another fact is that the former Palestinian Arabs had a state upon the end of the mandate, Trans-Jordan which at that time encompassed more land than modern day Israel. Even present day Jordan encompasses more land than Israel. They along with the other Arab states upon the founding of Israel refused to recognize Israel's right to exist then and the majority do not recognize it now. The Arab League declared war on the new state, and Egypt, Trans-Jordan (now Jordan), Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq mobilized their armies and attacked. Against all odds and with G-d's help the outnumbered, outgunned, Israel's triumphed. In the wake of the armistice portions of territory that the UN plan had allocated to the former Palestinian Arabs came under Egyptian and Jordanian control and military occupation (Egypt took over Gaza Strip, and Jordan gained control of the West Bank). Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. After 1950 with the Israel passage of The Right of Return many Jews were expelled from Arab lands forcibly or other wise to immigrate to Israel. By the end of 1951 300,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands such as Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, and Iraq had immigrated to Israel.
The next major conflict was in 1967 when In May 1967 Nasser called for the removal of UN forces from the Suez Canal region. He also organized a military alliance with Syria, Jordan, and Iraq and moved Egyptian troops and equipment into the Sinai Peninsula. In addition, Nasser closed the Strait of Tiran to Israeli shipping. After efforts at mediation by the UN and the Western powers failed, Israel launched a preemptive military strike against Egypt in early June. Jordan, Syria, and Iraq joined the fighting against Israel. The Egyptian air force was destroyed on the ground within hours of the start of the , and Israeli forces quickly seized the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula. Israel also took East Jerusalem and the West Bank from Jordan and the Golan Heights from Syria.
These lands became know as occupied when Israel conquered them in the course of battle where as when Egypt and Jordan occupied and took these lands away from the former Palestinian Arabs these lands became part of the occupiers country. Throughout history wars have been fought for what ever reason and lands have been conquered, traditionally the country that wins the war gets to keep the land. For example the United States never gave conquered Native American lands back to the Native Americans so they could form separate and independent nations as they once had been. The entire Middle East peace process is a fallacy. Over two million Arabs live peacefully in Israel as Israel citizens with all the rights that that entails. Many such as the Bedouin proudly serve their country in the Israeli Defense Forces. As Golda Meir once said “There will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jews.” Land for peace does not work because firstly the former Palestinian Arabs had there own country and were not contented with having the larger part of the whole of the mandate and secondly because almost every Arab state in the region has more land than Israel. What you should be more concerned with is why when the West Bank and Gaza Strip were under Israeli control were those Arabs in those lands as well as Arabs in the rest of Israel on a whole more prosperous, better educated, and successful over all than those same lands under the control of the terrorist Yaser Araffat or any other Arab nation in the region. You can not and should not make peace with people who do not recognize your right to exist.
Israel was rebuilt in 1948 on the lands that it had had long before the Arabs lived in that land of Israel. The Zionist movement is a reaction to the 2000 years of hatred and murder that the Jew's had to incur after the Dispora. The Zionist movement advocates a Jewish State in accordance with the Bible (Old Testament) in the Promised Land.
As for peace, in 1948 it was not the Zionist Jew's who attacked there Arab neighbors because they could not deal with living next to Arabs, It was the surrounding Arab states who attacked Israel. Since then, every attack on Israel has resulted in the Arabs loosing lands and they have been sore losers about it. I now have a question for you. When Trans-Jordan was occupying the West Bank and Egypt the Gaza strip why were the Arabs then not complaining when their brothers had taken their lands. When they used those lands as starting point for terrorism and future attacks prior to and during the 1967 Israel took the lands away from them. No you hear occupation and words like that thrown around the truth is that the Arabs who formally lived in the British Mandate of Palestine have been a disgrace to their own people and have been expelled from their real home land Trans-Jordan (modern day Jordan) because of their terrorist activities.
The only Answer for peace is that there will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jewish People. That's basically what it is hatred. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Jordan are individually much larger than Israel that's why I can not imagine why the Arabs complain about lands.

Israelforever

11-25-2002, 05:55 PM

Newsguy and Oh Jerusalem you are absolutely right. I agree with you 100%. The only thing I have to add is that you should be respectful of the innocent Israeli's who have been killed and refer to the Arab Terrorist attacks as Homicide Bombings. Also remeber it's the East Bank of Israel not the West Bank of Jordan. For Un-fair try these comments from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Along with my previous post A short history of Israel.

"Anti-Zionism" = "Anti-Semitism"

". . . You declare, my friend, that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist.' And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of God's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--this is God's own truth."

"Antisemitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agreement. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently antisemitic, and ever will be so. "

"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tyrant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered Our Lord. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them."

"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested--DEMANDED the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country."

"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfilment of God's promise, that his People should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land."

"This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less."

"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is antisemitism. "

"The antisemite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the antisemite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'! "

"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate antisemitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and a revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled--as others have been--into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to these heartfelt principles that you and I share. "

"Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews--make no mistake about it."

From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend," Saturday Review_XLVII (Aug. 1967), p. 76.
Reprinted in M.L. King Jr., "This I Believe: Selections from the Writings of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr."

Blueprint

12-10-2002, 12:44 PM

Not disagreeing with your view, Israelforever, but I believe that Martin Luther King letter is a fabrication based on a short quote by him.

Here is a report on it by the pro-Israel group CAMERA (http://www.camera.org): http://www.jewish-history.com/mlk_zionism.html

Disraeli

01-16-2003, 09:33 AM

http://www.themodernreligion.com/jihad/pal4.jpg

I don't think I need to show those two people dead to examplify my point.

The above is a picture of an unarmed father and son, moments before the IDF killed them.

Oh I forgot, saying that makes me an anti-semite and invalidates my views right?

Silly me.

Note: Is there some particular reason I can't post this picture?
I guess this forum only exists to exonerate the Israeli view of the world hmm?

How surprising.

minusthejihad

01-16-2003, 09:52 AM

The only reason you are not able to post the picture, is probably because you were too stupid to read the instructions. Why don't you go back over them and realize that you just proved yourself to be an anti-semite by jumping to conclusions through false assumptions.

minusthejihad

01-16-2003, 09:54 AM

And by the way, that death was proven to have come from a Palestinians fire. How about catching up a bit.

Disraeli

01-16-2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by minusthejihad
And by the way, that death was proven to have come from a Palestinians fire. How about catching up a bit.

Well there is an empty statement.

Care to back it up with your proported 'proof'?

The only reason you are not able to post the picture, is probably because you were too stupid to read the instructions.

That's a little insulting don't you think?

My, my, I was actually in San Diego recently and I must say, most Californians were much friendlier to new comers.

The hyperlink will suffice.

Why don't you go back over them and realize that you just proved yourself to be an anti-semite by jumping to conclusions through false assumptions.

No, I'm sorry, you have just proved yourself to be an anti-semite, by jumping to the conclusion that I am anti-semitic.

Logic is a wonderful thing really.

Mediocrates

01-16-2003, 10:29 AM

If you had to sum up your basic philosophy in a paragraph what would it be then.

Mediocrates

01-16-2003, 10:30 AM

No, I'm sorry, you have just proved yourself to be an anti-semite, by jumping to the conclusion that I am anti-semitic.

Logic is a wonderful thing really.

You're the one who jumped ugly with a bunch of wrong conclusions and you and I just traded private messages to that end. So don't accuse others what you just got finished doing yourself.

Thank you.

Disraeli

01-16-2003, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Mediocrates
You're the one who jumped ugly with a bunch of wrong conclusions and you and I just traded private messages to that end. So don't accuse others what you just got finished doing yourself.

Thank you.

What that doesn't make sense.

He said

Why don't you go back over them and realize that you just proved yourself to be an anti-semite by jumping to conclusions through false assumptions.

Then I said

No, I'm sorry, you have just proved yourself to be an anti-semite, by jumping to the conclusion that I am anti-semitic.

Logic is a wonderful thing really.

Q.E.D.

Israelforever

01-31-2003, 06:04 PM

During World War II the mufti of Jerusalem met with hitler in Germany to discuss his "Jewish Problem". He and other arabs even went so far as to send troops to hitler that made up the S.S. Muslem division that served on the Russian Army. There role was to hand out the final solution to Jews directly as soon as they were captured. After the war All arab leaders including the mufti declared a holy war to kill all the Jews.

Sign This Petition, Say No To An Arab State in Israel.
http://www.zoa.org/event14a.htm
http://www.zoa.org/petition/gbook.php

Shalom
Jason Rocklin

Evgeny

04-23-2003, 03:00 PM

I think that what they were trying do was to compare israeli's with Nazi's. that picture was taken out of context. it is very common for a Muslim to draw a cross or David star = a swastika.

Mediocrates

04-24-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Evgeny
I think that what they were trying do was to compare israeli's with Nazi's. that picture was taken out of context. it is very common for a Muslim to draw a cross or David star = a swastika.

Are you saying we should hesitate to take to THAT out of context too?

Are you serious?

Robby

08-15-2003, 03:17 AM

Here's a bit more on the Mufti and the Furer
jewishvirtuallibrary (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/People/muftihitler.jpg
BY Mitchell Bard

In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world.

The Mufti sent Hitler 15 drafts of declarations he wanted Germany and Italy to make concerning the Middle East. One called on the two countries to declare the illegality of the Jewish home in Palestine. Furthermore, “they accord to Palestine and to other Arab countries the right to solve the problem of the Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries, in accordance with the interest of the Arabs and, by the same method, that the question is now being settled in the Axis countries.”1

In November 1941, the Mufti met with Hitler, who told him the Jews were his foremost enemy. The Nazi dictator rebuffed the Mufti's requests for a declaration in support of the Arabs, however, telling him the time was not right. The Mufti offered Hitler his “thanks for the sympathy which he had always shown for the Arab and especially Palestinian cause, and to which he had given clear expression in his public speeches....The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely....the Jews....” Hitler replied:

Germany stood for uncompromising war against the Jews. That naturally included active opposition to the Jewish national home in Palestine....Germany would furnish positive and practical aid to the Arabs involved in the same struggle....Germany's objective [is]...solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere....In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. The Mufti thanked Hitler profusely.2

In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut. He died in 1974.

The Husseini family continues to play a role in Palestinian affairs, with Faisal Husseini, whose father was the Mufti's nephew, still regarded as one of their leading spokesmen in the territories.

Notes
1“Grand Mufti Plotted To Do Away With All Jews In Mideast,” Response, (Fall 1991), pp. 2-3.
2Record of the Conversation Between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on November 28, 1941, in the Presence of Reich Foreign Minister and Minister Grobba in Berlin, Documents on German Foreign Policy, 1918-1945, Series D, Vol. XIII, London, 1964, p. 881ff in Walter Lacquer and Barry Rubin, The Israel-Arab Reader, (NY: Facts on File, 1984), pp. 79-84.

abu afak

08-30-2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by Disraeli
Well there is an empty statement.

Care to back it up with your proported 'proof'?

That little boy's name was Mohammed al-Dura.

He was Killed by the Palestinians .

I care to Back it up

Take your Pick:

http://www.proche-orient.info/images/mbd/Segev_haaretz.htm

http://honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/Who_Shot_Mohammed_Al-Dura$.asp

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1991to_now_alaqsa_dura.php

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~ginsburg/aldura/

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31363

http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=205&voir%5B%5D=2078

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/06/fallows.htm

Another Palestinian Myth-- Busted

Donna

08-31-2003, 05:06 PM

Good job, abu!

Lowell

09-01-2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Disraeli
My, my, I was actually in San Diego recently and I must say, most Californians were much friendlier to new comers.

Not any more, and certainly not newcomers from countries known as havens for terrorists- including Ireland.

Lowell

09-01-2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Robby
Here's a bit more on the Mufti and the Furer
jewishvirtuallibrary (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html)
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/People/muftihitler.jpg
BY Mitchell Bard

In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world.

The Mufti sent Hitler 15 drafts of declarations he wanted Germany and Italy to make concerning the Middle East. One called on the two countries to declare the illegality of the Jewish home in Palestine. Furthermore, “they accord to Palestine and to other Arab countries the right to solve the problem of the Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries, in accordance with the interest of the Arabs and, by the same method, that the question is now being settled in the Axis countries.”1

In November 1941, the Mufti met with Hitler, who told him the Jews were his foremost enemy. The Nazi dictator rebuffed the Mufti's requests for a declaration in support of the Arabs, however, telling him the time was not right. The Mufti offered Hitler his “thanks for the sympathy which he had always shown for the Arab and especially Palestinian cause, and to which he had given clear expression in his public speeches....The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely....the Jews....” Hitler replied:

Germany stood for uncompromising war against the Jews. That naturally included active opposition to the Jewish national home in Palestine....Germany would furnish positive and practical aid to the Arabs involved in the same struggle....Germany's objective [is]...solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere....In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. The Mufti thanked Hitler profusely.2

In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut. He died in 1974.

The Husseini family continues to play a role in Palestinian affairs, with Faisal Husseini, whose father was the Mufti's nephew, still regarded as one of their leading spokesmen in the territories.

Notes
1“Grand Mufti Plotted To Do Away With All Jews In Mideast,” Response, (Fall 1991), pp. 2-3.
2Record of the Conversation Between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on November 28, 1941, in the Presence of Reich Foreign Minister and Minister Grobba in Berlin, Documents on German Foreign Policy, 1918-1945, Series D, Vol. XIII, London, 1964, p. 881ff in Walter Lacquer and Barry Rubin, The Israel-Arab Reader, (NY: Facts on File, 1984), pp. 79-84.

Thanks for posting this, Robby, and welcome to the forum.

abu afak

09-01-2003, 11:14 PM

The picture of Hitler and the Mufti is quite a welll known one and can be seen on many sites.

Lesser known are:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010905221924/www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/muf-han.html

http://www.kore.it/CAFFE/rosselli/GranMuftìAminAlHusseini.jpg
Il Gran Muftì Amin Al Husseini durante una rassegna di SS

and
http://www.kore.it/CAFFE/rosselli/GranMuftìDiGerusalemme.jpg

from the Pictures on the site:
http://www.kore.it/CAFFE/rosselli/hitler-mufti.htm
showing the Bosnian Muslim Divisions of the SS, including the Mufti Reviiewing them like:

and:

http://wordofmessiah.org/images/husseini5.jpg

and:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/handzar/han5.jpg

and:

http://www.mynetcologne.de/~nc-hollku3/seite5_6/05.02.jpg
The Mufti of Jerusalem at the review of troops at a parade of the SS-division "Handschar". Source: documentary film by Mirko Tomic

from http://www.mynetcologne.de/~nc-hollku3/seite5_6/site_5.html

and one with Himmler:

http://www.antifa-duisburg.de/pics/muftihimmlerkl.JPG

from several more in the series here : http://www.antifa-duisburg.de/pics/muftihimmlerkl.JPG

above are just mainly pictures-- I have more in text as well.

and thank you y'all Donna for the last compliment.

DanIssa

12-03-2003, 03:04 AM

In any way it looks like a terrorism act!

IlyaFurman

12-16-2003, 04:43 AM

http://www.waronline.org/terror/hizballah/recruts.jpg

natalizekaria

01-03-2004, 04:33 PM

I am shockd that people such as anti zionist are trying to put israel and judaism down so much what is going on with you guys.
I have been to Poland and see remain sof concentratin camps. Nazism is something noone can compare the MidEast cricise That Palestinian was simply educated in an ignorent way not only because Jews were not the only ones who were killed in the Holocasut but also because if the palestinians would have been in European countrys in the the time of WW2 then they too would of been killed by Nazi's .
How is it possible for Jews to be labbled the "new nazis" and to be compared to Nazis.
How on earth can Jews be compared to Nazis ?!!? you kow how can u forget 6 million jews were victims of that terror!

It saddnes me that noone sees this
To all of you who were against this picture Well done you should be proud that you were against it to the ignroent others who obviasly have their wires cross bring me facts on how this picture was good and I will be happy to show you you are wrong.
Toda Ve Shalom al Israel

nuttie

02-01-2004, 11:17 PM

Natalizekaria,

Thank you for your sincere and sympathetic reaction. You are right, of course, except for one thing:

Originally posted by natalizekaria
if the palestinians would have been in European countrys in the the time of WW2 then they too would of been killed by Nazi's The truth is that the Palestinians in fact were in Europe during WW2 - on the Nazi side. Their leader, the mufti Amin al-Husseini, commanded a muslim regiment in Bosnia, and was indited after the war for War Crimes against the Serbs.

This may seem confusing, unless you realize that the Nazi's war against what they called "the semitic race" was in fact a war against Jews only. They never had anything against Arabs, and did not mind much the internal contradiction in their own race theories.

Besides, there is no such thing as a semitic race. This is a completely non-scientific invention by European nineteenth-century race theorists.

Manne

02-05-2004, 04:37 AM

Not disputing the fact that this photo says many things evil.

I do want to point out that in other civilisations the swastik can have different interpretations. For hindus, swastik is a very auspicious symbol. However, there is a minor difference. The nazis used it with the arms of swastika at angles to the vertical and horizontal whereas the hindus draw swastik with the arms aligned with vertical and horizontal. And there can be variations e.g. a surya (sun) swastik is drawn with dots inside each swastik arm.

Just a piece of info.

natalizekaria

06-09-2004, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Are you saying we should hesitate to take to THAT out of context too?

Are you serious?

I agree Are you being serious i have never read such a stupid remark
i agree with u newsguy mediocraes

zaza

09-29-2004, 04:24 AM

Photo:

Palestinians hold up flag with a Nazi swastika in front of an Israeli army outpost at the Netzarim junction, Gaza Strip, as a sign of identification with the Nazi goal of committing genocide against the Jewish people of Israel.

Oct 6, 2000

Interesting topic what u guys make of this news article??:

"How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1312484,00.html

I posed this on other board to get an opinion but people tend to say it doesnt matter becuase what ur grandfather does should not tarnish ur reputation.

Roland

09-29-2004, 07:12 AM

Interesting topic what u guys make of this news article??:

"How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1312484,00.html

I posed this on other board to get an opinion but people tend to say it doesnt matter becuase what ur grandfather does should not tarnish ur reputation.
Me and my fellow germans seem to carry some kind of stigma along just for being germans - let alone for having ancestors with blood on their hands.
But nevertheless Bush is above crisicism for some people here.
So you will be either ignored or bitten by Bush apologists.
IMO Bush is doing enough for his reputation himself and this grandfather is of little relevance for me.

Mediocrates

09-29-2004, 07:25 AM

Or Henry Ford, or Charles Lindburgh, or GAF or IBM.....no the fact is that there was and has always been a strong fascist undercurrent in some segments of America. We're not all that different from any of the others in that regard. Once could ask, how is it again the UN elected Kurt Waldheim to the top slot? Oh yeah - - because Nazism is really not that big a deal and frankly, is attractive to large segments of the world. I keep forgetting <smacks head>

Mil

02-18-2005, 03:09 PM

Posted by zizi:

Interesting topic what u guys make of this news article??:

"How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...1312484,00.html

I posed this on other board to get an opinion but people tend to say it doesnt matter becuase what ur grandfather does should not tarnish ur reputation.

It's nothing special. Everyone was doing business with the Nazis including USSR which lost over 27,000,000 killed in the war. Shell was doing business with Nazis, Ford, Reno... as I said nothing special. By the way Shwartzenegger's father was an SS officer.

Mil

02-18-2005, 03:16 PM

Posted by Roland:

Me and my fellow germans seem to carry some kind of stigma along just for being germans - let alone for having ancestors with blood on their hands.

And you should. Your fathers and grandfathers were responsible for killing half of my family. And I don't feel any pity for you.

But nevertheless Bush is above crisicism for some people here.

Why? Sure blame it on Bush - it's the popular thing to do. In 100 years Bush would definetly rhyme with Hitler in most of European history books.

So you will be either ignored or bitten by Bush apologists.
IMO Bush is doing enough for his reputation himself and this grandfather is of little relevance for me.

Bush's grandfather did not create Hilter, Bush's grandfather did not tell Hitler of how to run Germany, Bush's grandfather did not tell Germans to kill 45,000,000 people, Bush's grandfather did not encourage Germans to put any undersirables into death or concentration camps. Lets put the blame to where the blame belongs - on the German people - not on some businessman who was making money off some dictatorial criminal regime. Otherwise you make it sound like (keeping with the popular times of revisionism and America bashing) Bush was responsible for starting WWII, running death and extermination camps, and the murder of some 45,000,000 people. Why don't you accuse the Russians of dealing with Hitler or lets say Poles.

Or if you want to talk about this Dresden idiocy... we can all do that. Amuze me.

Roland

02-20-2005, 11:50 PM

Me and my fellow germans seem to carry some kind of stigma along just for being germans - let alone for having ancestors with blood on their hands.

And you should. Your fathers and grandfathers were responsible for killing half of my family. And I don't feel any pity for you.

How dare you accuse my father and grandfather of murder, Mil?!
Either you proof your libellous insult now, or take it back!

KettleWhistle

02-21-2005, 12:12 AM

Interesting topic what u guys make of this news article??:

"How Bush's grandfather helped Hitler's rise to power "

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1312484,00.html

I posed this on other board to get an opinion but people tend to say it doesnt matter becuase what ur grandfather does should not tarnish ur reputation.

This story is not true. I couldn't find a particular reference for it, because when I googled it, I only got the same drivel about Preston Bush's involvement with Nazis. In reality, this rumor was invented to tarnish Bush, and the fact that this did not happen was published in several newspapers and magazines.

BTW, George Bush senior was a decorated Navi pilot during WWII.

Mil

02-22-2005, 07:34 AM

Posted by Roland:

How dare you accuse my father and grandfather of murder, Mil?!

45,000,000 dead, remember? Not forget the number of people damaged for life.

Either you proof your libellous insult now, or take it back!

My grandfather, a Red Army Captain at the time, visited Auzwitz few days after liberation - you should ask him.

KettleWhistle

02-22-2005, 01:17 PM

You have no way of knowing if his parents and/or grandparents were involved.

Mil

02-22-2005, 03:05 PM

Posted by KettleWhistle:

You have no way of knowing if his parents and/or grandparents were involved.

I know a thing or two about the Second World War. Almost every male citizen of Germany was involved in the military one way or the other. Hitler mobilized the entire country. The instances of German defiance or I even dare to say popular Resistance to the regime were very few and too far in between.

Even the failed assassination attempt on Hitler was not about moral attitudes of certain German officers or German citizens to the murder of innocents or any other ethical headaches experienced by certain Germans - but rather it was a very visible outcome of the war and its reprecussions for Germany was the main concern of the plotters. The all-out "humane" hero Rommel didn't give a flying f*** about concentration camps, ethnical cleansing or any massacres conducted by Hitler, Adolf.

I have read too much on WWII to have any respect for Germans for what they did 60 years ago. I think it's our duty, our responsibilty to remind Germans of their history to make sure that they know that they still owe it to the victims of their parents and grandparents.

Roland

02-23-2005, 12:30 AM

Mil

02-23-2005, 08:10 AM

Posted by Roland:

That's another disgusting example of pure dumbness and undereducation.
You know nothing, Mil!

I know quite some.

I don't understand how anybody who (claims to have) read something about germanys history can still remain so prejudiced and racist and hostile - just like you, Mil,

I am not a racist.

What the * makes you think my parents have not been victims, but murderers instead?

I don't - you are right. I am basing my opinion on mathematical propabilities. 18 million Germans were mobilized into the Wermacht or basically the entire able male population of Germany and unless you were a Jew, a visible Commie, or some other very visible and very "undersirable" individual you have been in the Wermacht. My respect for Wermacht and what it stood and fought for is - ZERO.

And I do feel that Germans have to be reminded of their history otherwise we get all this Dresden c***p, certain politicians walking out on Holocaust remembrance decisions, growing number of Neo-Nazis and the rest of this idiocy.

Mediocrates

02-23-2005, 08:29 AM

It's not my role to absolve nor is it my business to hate for little or no reason. A part of my work is in Germany and on a professional level I never found Germans to be anything other than professional, cooperative good listeners. My kippah sort of stands out so it's not as if I'm hiding anything.

Luke90

02-23-2005, 08:41 AM

I am basing my opinion on mathematical propabilities.
It's not reasonable to insult someone's family based on mathematical probabilities and personally I don't think we should bear responsibility for the actions of our ancestors anyway.
The holocaust should never be forgotten but neither do I think it should affect the way we think of today's Germans. Obviously that's going to be hard for anyone personally or more indirectly affected by the holocaust but I certainly don't think Roland should be treated any differently for being German. Whichever way you look at it that's racism.

Mil

02-23-2005, 09:49 AM

Luke90

02-23-2005, 10:06 AM

I agree with Roland's statement too.
However, I disagree with your statement that it's right for there to be such a stigma.

minusthejihad

02-23-2005, 10:18 AM

NEVER FORGET, and NEVER FORGIVE neither. F____ Desmond Tutu too!

Mediocrates

02-23-2005, 10:46 AM

Posted by Luke:

The following was posted by Roland:

Me and my fellow germans seem to carry some kind of stigma along just for being germans - let alone for having ancestors with blood on their hands.

I basically agreed with Roland that Germans must carry the stigma for being Germans because they have very direct ancestors with blood on their hands.

I think most of the people who could possibly forgive them are dead so it really isn't your problem to worry about, is it? Not that I worry about it one way or another. I think Jews need to form an identity outside of the Shoah that stands on its own. We used to say that American Judaism couldn't survive w/o antisemitism and in part, if you look at assimilation that's partially correct. But what a way to live, no? We can read about Assyrians and Babylonians and Romans and Greeks and Crusaders and Cossacks and Nazis in old books because they're (for the most part) all dead and gone and we are still here. And on Tisha B'Av and on every weekday meal we recite Psalm 137, al naharot bavel,

By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Upon the willows in the midst thereof we hanged up our harps.

For there they that led us captive asked of us words of song, and our tormentors asked of us mirth: 'Sing us one of the songs of Zion.'

How shall we sing the Lord'S song in a foreign land?

If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.

Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth, if I remember thee not; if I set not Jerusalem above my chiefest joy.

Remember, O the Lord, against the children of Edom the day of Jerusalem; who said: 'Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.'

O daughter of Babylon, that art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that repayeth thee as thou hast served us.

Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the rock.

But it isn't recited in hate. It might sound like it but it's more bitter than hate, something else entirely. In the end it's really not your job to hate them. Never forget, sure but leave justice to the ineffable.

Mil

02-23-2005, 11:17 AM

Nothing like BonnyM :)

As far as Germany is conerned my childhood favorite band of all times used to be "Modern Talking" with "Scorpions" and "Europa" close second. But I still can't imagine of what exactly they find so mesmorizing about David Hosselhof.

"Blue System" is Swedish - right?

Roland

02-25-2005, 12:11 AM

I don't - you are right. I am basing my opinion on mathematical propabilities. 18 million Germans were mobilized into the Wermacht or basically the entire able male population of Germany and unless you were a Jew, a visible Commie, or some other very visible and very "undersirable" individual you have been in the Wermacht. My respect for Wermacht and what it stood and fought for is - ZERO.
I don't even share your "mathematical propabilities".
80 million Germans/2 (only males) = 40 million Germans -18 million Germans = 22 million Germans.
You want to say 22 mio -Jews -"Commies" -"Undesirables" -"Underage" -old -sick = zero? I don't think so.
Any statistics-geeks here to give us some qualified figures?
But even then your could only guess, that my parents were no nazi-victims.
Hint: None of my ancestors were ever conscripted or otherwise wearing uniforms as far as I could track them between 1880 and 1960.

Roland

02-25-2005, 12:14 AM

Peter

03-08-2005, 11:48 PM

Fair seems ok. Chill.

As for the pic, sad yeah-but what do u expect them to do? If You mean these men _with Swastika_, I expect them to die ASAP :). IMHO, of course :).

Leon

03-19-2005, 03:09 AM

Me three

allah akbaar

04-12-2005, 05:21 AM

amazing now u are very angry coz of two gays holding aflag ..is this harm well to all plastinian IF U WANT TO KILL ISREALIAN PEOPLE ALL U HAVE TO DO IS TO HOLD THAT FLAG ITS VERY EFFCTIVE ..mm well let me see they have BUllets ..no BULLETS ONLY hit your bady it does not kill you ..sad ..

danholo

04-12-2005, 07:41 AM

I didn't know that two Palestinian gay men carrying a Nazi flag is lethal. I'll know to stay away from them.

allah akbaar

04-12-2005, 12:24 PM

I didn't know that two Palestinian gay men carrying a Nazi flag is lethal. I'll know to stay away from them.

oh im sorry did isay gay oh man i didnt u people afraid from gays oh sorry but please dnt shoot me :p

Mediocrates

04-12-2005, 12:48 PM

Matan

04-23-2005, 06:16 AM

akbar, dont u agree that history has a great affect of people's behavior?
Brandishing a symbol that symbolizing the death and suffer of 6 million jews and more isnt only a picture - for us its deeper than that, its meaningful.

I don't think that there in the UAE (united arab emirates) you know much about the conflict, and dont try to sell me the image of the poor arab, we all know that the UAE is one of the most richest countries in the world.
Correct me if im wrong, the prestigious hotel in the world located there in Dubai.

so what do you know about israel and judaism, only what you're teachers teach you - haterd.

MichaelZ

05-02-2005, 02:51 AM

Posted by Luke:

The following was posted by Roland:

Me and my fellow germans seem to carry some kind of stigma along just for being germans - let alone for having ancestors with blood on their hands.

I basically agreed with Roland that Germans must carry the stigma for being Germans because they have very direct ancestors with blood on their hands.
I also have German ancestry. I have no stigma. I am an American. Many more would have been murdered without the assistance of America in World War II against the devil Hitler.

I found it interesting that the following article speaks of perhaps as many as 150,000 military men being Jewish or "partial-Jews".

"Contrary to conventional views, Rigg reveals that a startlingly large number of German military men were classified by the Nazis as Jews or "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge), in the wake of racial laws first enacted in the mid-1930s. Rigg demonstrates that the actual number was much higher than previously thought--perhaps as many as 150,000 men, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals."

"As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers."

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html

Zlatorog

05-02-2005, 07:05 AM

I also have German ancestry. I have no stigma. I am an American. Many more would have been murdered without the assistance of America in World War II against the devil Hitler.

I found it interesting that the following article speaks of perhaps as many as 150,000 military men being Jewish or "partial-Jews".

"Contrary to conventional views, Rigg reveals that a startlingly large number of German military men were classified by the Nazis as Jews or "partial-Jews" (Mischlinge), in the wake of racial laws first enacted in the mid-1930s. Rigg demonstrates that the actual number was much higher than previously thought--perhaps as many as 150,000 men, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals."

"As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers."

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html

The Nazis were very inconsistent. We had a small German national community here that was nazified very early. On the 18. of April 1941 Himmler ordered to erase the slovene language (800.000 Slovenes were annexed to the Reich, only 66.3% of the damage was 'German') and on the 27. of April 41 Hitler visited the Maribor Germans and ordered complete Germanization. The population was 'racially checked'. What the hell were they doing :D Anyway, we were 'innapropriate', so before some were sent to the concentration camps, there were mass relocations and removal of Slovene children to Nazi reform schools. That meant that 6000 children were appropriate and some were sent to stay with the German families in Germany right away. The Nazis wanted to expel 260.000 people from that region but that was heavily sabotaged and Himmler had to postpone it on the 21. of August 41. Two other regions were spared because of a collaborator who was only part German, Wolfgang Rupnik. Unfortunately, part of my family was already expelled and were given a german farm, it's not ours and will collapse any day now. The Jews in that area were under the Hungarian rule and were sent to Auschwitz in 44. A lot of Jews fought here (most in the italian area, they were liberated by the slovene prisoners in a 'mutual' concentration camp) so a description of a monument that says "Remember the Jews, fallen soldiers and victims of Fascism 1941-1945." and includes the Menorah shield of Israel, with the word ‘Israel’ in Hebrew - as very daring in 1964, was not daring at all.

goliath

05-02-2005, 12:58 PM

As Rigg fully documents for the first time, a great many of these men did not even consider themselves Jewish and had embraced the military as a way of life and as devoted patriots eager to serve a revived German nation. In turn, they had been embraced by the Wehrmacht, which prior to Hitler had given little thought to the "race" of these men but which was now forced to look deeply into the ancestry of its soldiers
A lot to say about that ..but better lass falen...

[url]http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html[/url
This is a reference unacceptable for a person like me , if we have to refer to the NAZI scale and classification or the Nazi hand book ,or some Nazi manual ,in order to learn who is Jew ,who is half Jew ,and a quarteron or a quinteron or an optimon ....
I feel very sad for the man who get that kind of idea ...really..!
If you are for centuries in a country , what do you feel to be ? A ghost ?...
People who emmigrate in the US "feel American "after a few month , sometimes less ,so ? They are American...!
And now you wants counting the Jews in the US army , and also the black , or the yellow , ....
Many Jew were fighting during WW1 in both sides ,they were not figthing as Jews ,but as German or French ,or British , or whatever ...etc , they were figthing just because the politician leaders and the law and the state and the country ,they arrange and combine a war ,but it's the people who is going to fight , not the leaders , too risky in first line.for them...Learders and school teachers ingrave in their mind , fight for their mother land it's their first duty..and an honor to die for a cause which you ignore completely the real reasons ..that's all : Comrade it's your DUTY.....

MichaelZ

05-02-2005, 11:24 PM

[QUOTE=MichaelZ

A lot to say about that ..but better lass falen...

[url]http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righit.html[/url
This is a reference unacceptable for a person like me , if we have to refer to the NAZI scale and classification or the Nazi hand book ,or some Nazi manual ,in order to learn who is Jew ,who is half Jew ,and a quarteron or a quinteron or an optimon ....
I feel very sad for the man who get that kind of idea ...really..!
If you are for centuries in a country , what do you feel to be ? A ghost ?...
People who emmigrate in the US "feel American "after a few month , sometimes less ,so ? They are American...!
And now you wants counting the Jews in the US army , and also the black , or the yellow , ....
Many Jew were fighting during WW1 in both sides ,they were not figthing as Jews ,but as German or French ,or British , or whatever ...etc , they were figthing just because the politician leaders and the law and the state and the country ,they arrange and combine a war ,but it's the people who is going to fight , not the leaders , too risky in first line.for them...Learders and school teachers ingrave in their mind , fight for their mother land it's their first duty..and an honor to die for a cause which you ignore completely the real reasons ..that's all : Comrade it's your DUTY.....
Exactly. And many, many Germans were fighting in WWII because they were forced to, not because they had diabolical postitions against the Jews. So how does one blame all Germans on the atrocities committed by a devil named Hitler?

My German ancestors were Americans before WWI and WWII.

Thank you for helping to make my point.
Michael

goliath

05-03-2005, 03:44 AM

QUOTE=MichaelZ
Exactly. And many, many Germans were fighting in WWII because they were forced to, not because they had diabolical postitions against the Jews. So how does one blame all Germans on the atrocities committed by a devil named Hitler?
Hitler and his crew are probably all ( not quite all ) in hell for eternity..which is very long...
Nazism was find his bed because French treaty (allies reaty but rulled by French) was so heavy ,and Germany was unable to pay and stand all the condition, the US attempted to change those condition and have given a warning to Clemenceau ,He didn't get the point ..too square..
My German ancestors were Americans before WWI and WWII.
Thank you for helping to make my point.Michael
If you are checking your German ancestors , it's a good occupation ,if you're jobless, or simply curious, if I was in your shoes ,I will begin to learn German language ,it could be an interesting beginning....
Nazism ,it rest in the past , don't worry within a few years , you will only find a line in the history's books.
ie : Hitler German politician, bla bla bla , his policy based on racism ,bla bla bla , he persisted since 1944 in steering an hopless war and commited suicide when Berlin was taken on the April 30 1945...end of the story...

Zlatorog

05-03-2005, 06:16 AM

Here we just consider Mussolini to be the Hitler's 'teacher'. We have some Home Guard vs the Partisans (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52533) disputes; the first group managed to 'prove' that they didn't 'pledge directly to Hitler', but we all agree that Mussolini was an extreme racist and the source of all evil :eek: . The forced italianisation combined with an economic crisis in Italy alone resulted in huge emigration, mostly to the US (about 200.000, 327,230 people were living there according to the Austrian census of 1910, 271,305 people according to the Italian census of 1921, 290,000 people according to the estimates of Carlo Schiffrer and about 34,000 Venetian Slovenes before the departure). How could the Jews in Trieste (http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=585) not become zionists in such a climate (http://www.tigr-drustvo.si/album/index.php?album=&image=Trst_Pozgan-Narodni-dom.jpg&) ? Everytime I hear how 'lenient' the italian concentration camps were (http://ales.ledina.org/projekti/timkoII/2.svetovna/fotke/images/24.jpg), I look at the Yad Vashem names and the dates of the perished. My town was completely surrounded with barbed wire and 15.000 people, entire families, were just sent to a different location. It could be that we're the only country where the neonazis attack our monuments and leave the jewish ones nearby untouched. We know no irredentism here, so everything that's been going on lately can only be explained as a consequence of the many attacks on the left in the neighbouring country. There's some revisionism in the British press (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-45-1565283,00.html) as well. Despite the lack of success in establishing pro-Allied partisan groups in Carinthia - our partisans were in Carinthia

but not the communist Garibaldi partisans, who were ill-disciplined and uncooperative - whatever they were, they were anti-fascist resistance, period. You must never spit on Peace Now, even if you see them as traitors.

goliath

05-03-2005, 08:49 AM

QUOTE=Zlatorog
but not the communist Garibaldi partisans, who were ill-disciplined and uncooperative[/I] - whatever they were, they were anti-fascist resistance, period. You must never spit on Peace Now, even if you see them as traitors.
Garibaldini , are in another period and in another part of history...
it's seems they're be part of the king Vittorio Emanuele...

Zlatorog

05-03-2005, 10:53 AM

Garibaldini , are in another period and in another part of history...
it's seems they're be part of the king Vittorio Emanuele...

Where did you get that idea from? If your ancestors were non assasin communist idealists, before communism became a perverted ideology, that's great. Mine just fought in the resistance without any ideology, so yes, I can tell that the Garibaldini went too far with their ideology. But first and foremost they fought the superiority directed against the proletariat. With lots of anti slovene racism in it. And it went on for decades! It was not about land, the allies have sealed that pretty well. Because of such revisionism, its an ongoing period, not another part of history. Surely as a zionist you can explain to everyone what bastard Churchill was, no? We're not part of your Arab / Israel war. We are grateful to anyone that has fought against Mussolini and we are grateful to the italian police that has just raided a fascist group. In the meanwhile I even found a Stormfront neonazi, posting from this country - he must be very unhappy about something. I'm not going to do anything about it, because his compatriots, some other Stormfront group, already have a list of all the Jews in the neighbouring countries. Dhimmitude. It reminds me of an article in some country that decided that for their citizens joining the Ansar al Sunna was not illigal, and it didn't help them one bit. Only the article has disappeared.

goliath

05-03-2005, 11:21 AM

QUOTE=Zlatorog]Where did you get that idea from? If your ancestors were non assasin communist idealists, before communism became a perverted ideology, that's great. Mine just fought in the resistance without any ideology, so yes, I can tell that the Garibaldini went too far with their ideology.
Garibaldi was a so call chief of the so call : camice rosse..
They were considered as Rossi , with no real ideology , l'unica was :
To take the properties from the "rich" and give that to the "poor"..
Personnally I don't consult internet ,only my brain...
Garibaldi was at the beginning of the end of the king in italy , it could be you have in mind the movment : V.E.R.D.I.
After that period he was "sent" in south America with 200 or 300 men...
He was a ridiculous mercenary , and his end was similar concerning the level of his goal...nothing....

But first and foremost they fought the superiority directed against the proletariat. With lots of anti slovene racism in it. And it went on for decades! It was not about land, the allies have sealed that pretty well. Because of such revisionism, its an ongoing period, not another part of history. Surely as a zionist you can explain to everyone what bastard Churchill was, no? As a Zionist ,I could explain several episod, even some brothers had a strange attitude in the past ..but they are Heroe.
Are you saying Garibaldi was against proletariat ,workers ,?

We're not part of your Arab / Israel war
Please get in and sit in you will be mostly welcome ..Chose your side.

We are grateful to anyone that has fought against Mussolini and we are grateful to the italian police that has just raided a fascist group. In the meanwhile I even found a Stormfront neonazi, posting from this country
Are you not aware about Italy was a fascist country ,??
- he must be very unhappy about something. I'm not going to do anything about it, because his compatriots, some other Stormfront group, already have a list of all the Jews in the neighbouring countries. Dhimmitude. It reminds me of an article in some country that decided that for their citizens joining the Ansar al Sunna was not illigal, and it didn't help them one bit. Only the article has disappeared.
Unfortunately ,Neonazi are everywhere , it's a black pleg , for my people , but sometimes we can do something about it....

MichaelZ

05-03-2005, 04:14 PM

Hitler and his crew are probably all ( not quite all ) in hell for eternity..which is very long...
Nazism was find his bed because French treaty (allies reaty but rulled by French) was so heavy ,and Germany was unable to pay and stand all the condition, the US attempted to change those condition and have given a warning to Clemenceau ,He didn't get the point ..too square..

If you are checking your German ancestors , it's a good occupation ,if you're jobless, or simply curious, if I was in your shoes ,I will begin to learn German language ,it could be an interesting beginning....
Nazism ,it rest in the past , don't worry within a few years , you will only find a line in the history's books.
ie : Hitler German politician, bla bla bla , his policy based on racism ,bla bla bla , he persisted since 1944 in steering an hopless war and commited suicide when Berlin was taken on the April 30 1945...end of the story...
Danke Schoen. Ich habe zwei jahre nach Deutchland ins die militar. Meine Deutch ist zehr schlect jetzt, aber meine English is viel besser.

Zlatorog

05-03-2005, 05:01 PM

Garibaldi was a so call chief of the so call : camice rosse..
They were considered as Rossi , with no real ideology , l'unica was :
To take the properties from the "rich" and give that to the "poor"..
Personnally I don't consult internet ,only my brain...
Garibaldi was at the beginning of the end of the king in italy , it could be you have in mind the movment : V.E.R.D.I. ....

Fazzoletti Verdi? My previous post ended with an awful obituary and a rememberance of La Magna Vaqua.

Are you saying Garibaldi was against proletariat ,workers ,?....

No.

Please get in and sit in you will be mostly welcome ..Chose your side.,?....

Negative. We have skiing instructors in Lebanon who are not spies.

goliath

05-04-2005, 04:26 AM

[QUOTE=MichaelZ]Danke Schoen. Ich habe zwei jahre nach Deutchland ins die militar. Meine Deutch ist zehr schlect jetzt, aber meine English is viel besser

Richtig ,ganz gut fur sich , mein Deutch spreiche ist nicht viel schmekte fur mich...
If you've got studies in English ,it could be easy to learn German ,roots are more or less the same ,the grammar is very different , another way of thinking , very near with Russian ....sechs deklination..
German is not my cup of tea anymore..

goliath

05-04-2005, 06:19 AM

[QUOTE=Zlatorog]
Fazzoletti Verdi? My previous post ended with an awful obituary and a rememberance of La Magna Vaqua.
I really do think you have an incoherent exchange ,and the main point are escaping to you , it's life ...
V.E.R.D.I. / Vittorio Emanuele re dei Italiani....check it ,if you have time for that....
Here you can find some of my friends , and their father were part of the Garibaldini :
Inhabitant of Grosseto
Bolgia Giovanni / de Vitti Rodolfo / Magliacani Francesco
Nanin Giorgio Venezia Marginte Perselli /San Daniele
Boni Antonio
Cristofoli Angelo / ( San Vito al Tagliamento)
Zuzzi Enrico / Codroipo Friuli
Luzzatto Mario / Udine
Pezzutti Pietro / Polcenigo
Negative. We have skiing instructors in Lebanon who are not spies.
Then you are in Muslim part...good ,nice...,finally..!

Zlatorog

05-04-2005, 06:51 AM

Are you not aware about Italy was a fascist country ,??

Unfortunately ,Neonazi are everywhere , it's a black pleg , for my people , but sometimes we can do something about it....

See that is why I condemn Churchill in the harshest way (http://www.titoville.com/images/tito&cerkev.jpg), even though I have no reason to. (http://www.titoville.com/images/tito-churchill.jpg)

Extreme nationalism here looks like this

At the end of the First World War, in 1918, the Austro Hungarian Monarchy crumbled. Some of Slovenia's territory, the regions of Krain and Lower Styria became part of the new state of Yugoslavia. Other parts of Slovenian territory, namely the regions of Istria and Littoral were annexed to Italy. The centre of this area was Trieste consisting of a mixed population, where the majority spoke Italian. There were about 80,000 Slovenian speaking people, making up more than one third of the city's population, with a density of 210,000 inhabitants. In Trieste were present all central organizations belonging to Slovenian people from the whole territory. Here were the establishments of well known Slovenian banks, at the forefront the Adriatic Bank and many financial institutes. The Slovenian-Dalmatian boat building company Dalmatia had its head quarters here and so did the Slovenian Shipping Company Oceania, the transport company Balkan and many other businesses. The Czechs had also their capital invested here, which was primarily obvious in the Zivnostenskà Bank. The centre of Slovenian national and cultural activities was a splendid palace in the downtown core called National House, containing the administrations of all Slovenian cultural organizations including the Slovenian playhouse. However, in July 1920 the fascists of Trieste attacked it and burned it to the ground. The persecution of Slovenians in the whole region received its official sanction in 1922 with the rise of fascism in Italy, which continued from then on. Slovenian banks and companies were officially abolished and their capital confiscated. All Slovenian schools were shut down and it was forbidden to speak Slovenian in public. Some 70.000 Slovenians, being robbed of their existence fled to Yugoslavia. A terror reigned over everything that was called Slovenian. Physical attacks were carried out on national conscious Slovenians. The liberation organization TIGR was established, they fought for Littoral in hope to have it joined with Yugoslavia. Its activities started with acts of sabotage in 1924 especially concentrating on burning former Slovenian schools in country areas, where they served now exclusivly only as Italian education facilities. (Slovene was completely prohibited and everyone got an italian name). They smuggled Slovenian literature and books from Yugoslavia and distributed them among the population. TIGR was trying to avoid human casualties, however, they primarily responded to fascist violence. Based on those acts of sabotage numerous convictions were made and often innocent people had to suffer. The fascist regime initiated the renowned 'Special Court for Protection of the State' against the members of TIGR. It convicted many persons to long years of incarceration and some of them to death. Following these executions the fascist tyranny against the Slovenians increased. Some members of the TIGR association were cooperative with the British Secret Service and were sending them information about the military strength of the fascist regime. There was no shortage of confinements, the torture of prisoners was a 'normal' occurrence, but the resistance did not cease.

1941

The majority of the TIGR members joined the fighters of the Slovenian Liberation Front. However, their Slovenian patriotism was 'dangerous' to the Communist Party, which was at that time totally devoted to Stalin and controlled the Liberation Front. The tragedy was obvious after the war, when the Littoral (except Trieste and Gorica) became part of Yugoslavia. In the communist totalitarian Yugoslavia it was not permitted to speak or write about the struggle of the members belonging to the TIGR association. They received no means from the Yugoslav communist regime for their existence and some of them deserted the country and fled to the Italian side of the border or anywhere else in the world. They were accused of treason (for collaborating with the British) and especially of (Slovenian) nationalism vise versa 'internationalism' of the Communist Party.

Zlatorog

05-04-2005, 07:18 AM

I really do think you have an incoherent exchange ,and the main point are escaping to you , it's life .....

It was you who jumped into another century. I have just now discovered the Garibaldini.it website.

Here you can find some of my friends , and their father were part of the Garibaldini :
Inhabitant of Grosseto
Bolgia Giovanni / de Vitti Rodolfo / Magliacani Francesco
Nanin Giorgio Venezia Marginte Perselli /San Daniele
Boni Antonio
Cristofoli Angelo / ( San Vito al Tagliamento)
Zuzzi Enrico / Codroipo Friuli
Luzzatto Mario / Udine
Pezzutti Pietro / Polcenigo

They're not affraid of Slavicization and Austrainism, are they? Haider will now pay for a secret testing of how many people actually master the slovene language in Carinhia :p

Then you are in Muslim part...good ,nice...,finally..!

We're everywhere, which is amazing, and we must keep it that way.

goliath

05-04-2005, 10:05 AM

[QUOTE=Zlatorog
See that is why I condemn Churchill in the harshest way (http://www.titoville.com/images/tito&cerkev.jpg), even though I have no reason to. (http://www.titoville.com/images/tito-churchill.jpg)
Extreme nationalism here looks like this
A vey few people ( crowd people ) are aware about what W.Churchill was ,I don't condemn him ,he is dead,then..
Chamberlain was not so bad either ,and the French Daladier...everybody were afraid about the Bolchevic...Tito ,was brave , and escape to the complete domination by Stalin...was he really honest ? no one wants to now ,samething for all the men with Power ...right?

At the end of the First World War, in 1918, the Austro Hungarian Monarchy crumbled.
During WW1 ,Italian fought against the Austrian Army ,the hostility began on 1915 ..
Some of Slovenia's territory, the regions of Krain and Lower Styria became part of the new state of Yugoslavia. Other parts of Slovenian territory, namely the regions of Istria and Littoral were annexed to Italy. The centre of this area was Trieste consisting of a mixed population, where the majority spoke Italian.
Everybody speeks both language in this area ,and especially in Trieste
There were about 80,000 Slovenian speaking people, making up more than one third of the city's population, with a density of 210,000 inhabitants. In Trieste were present all central organizations belonging to Slovenian people from the whole territory. Here were the establishments of well known Slovenian banks, at the forefront the Adriatic Bank and many financial institutes. The centre of Slovenian national and cultural activities was a splendid palace in the downtown core called National House, containing the administrations of all Slovenian cultural organizations including the Slovenian playhouse. However, in July 1920 the fascists of Trieste attacked it and burned it to the ground.
Italian people ( the majotity of them) were very proud to be fascist , and feel great and powerfull , the virus was identical in all Europe ,the reason was obviously the new philosophy : communism..
No more religion ,no more banks , no more profits ,no more private property, and so on ..
Even the Vatican was pro fascist..

1941

The majority of the TIGR members joined the fighters of the Slovenian Liberation Front. However, their Slovenian patriotism was 'dangerous' to the Communist Party, which was at that time totally devoted to Stalin and controlled the Liberation Front. The tragedy was obvious after the war, when the Littoral (except Trieste and Gorica) became part of Yugoslavia. In the communist totalitarian Yugoslavia it was not permitted to speak or write about the struggle of the members belonging to the TIGR association. They received no means from the Yugoslav communist regime for their existence and some of them deserted the country and fled to the Italian side of the border or anywhere else in the world.
Right a lot of them deserted and fled everywhere ,mainly in France and Italy ,that was not easy , borders where very difficult to cross over..
They were accused of treason (for collaborating with the British) and especially of (Slovenian) nationalism vise versa 'internationalism' of the Communist Party.
Right that was sort of double cross trap..
All around this area you can underline similar exemples , and for that you've not to search far from Slovenia , all the ex-Austro-Hungarian empire ,all north of Italy and the neibourghood were the object of many persecution ,and brimade concerning their language , even Bulgaria ..

goliath

05-04-2005, 10:44 AM

QUOTE=Zlatorog]It was you who jumped into another century. I have just now discovered the Garibaldini.it website.
I new that story from a long time ago ,but it was mostly an incident in the geopolitical story concerning that part of our nice world.

They're not affraid of Slavicization and Austrainism, are they? Haider will now pay for a secret testing of how many people actually master the slovene language in Carinhia :p
Not really..! Lol ,their bones are dry since a long time , and they don't suffer with toth pain either... :p

[QUOTE]We're everywhere, which is amazing, and we must keep it that way.[/QUOTE
Can we really do hope so ?

Zlatorog

05-04-2005, 11:59 AM

Tito ,was brave , and escape to the complete domination by Stalin...was he really honest ? no one wants to now ,samething for all the men with Power ...right?

He had many Jewish friends, one of them was his top lieutenant for 20 years. He completely cut ties with Moscow in 1948 and carried on with his own kind of communism. Rather early it was transformed into socialism, but too late for many. We will soon see with what kind of funny stuff Silvester Stallone and Robert de Niro have come up with.

Italian people ( the majotity of them) were very proud to be fascist , and feel great and powerfull , the virus was identical in all Europe ,the reason was obviously the new philosophy : communism..

We equate fascism with racism and have that well documented. It is evident that Mussolini used the Jews only as pawns. The core of fascism was superiority. Mussolini himself never believed in any racial theories. Riight. He imposed anti-jewish laws in 1938 because of Germany... What utter garbage.

No more religion ,no more banks , no more profits ,no more private property, and so on ..
Even the Vatican was pro fascist

This has nothing to do with the persecution of our minority or the confiscation of our assets, because see, we were not communist, communism was extremely marginal and the activists were in jail. The resistance was hijacked no sooner than in 1943.

Right that was sort of double cross trap..

A double cross trap is also not suing Berlusconi for his Gonars remark.

All around this area you can underline similar exemples , and for that you've not to search far from Slovenia , all the ex-Austro-Hungarian empire ,all north of Italy and the neibourghood were the object of many persecution ,and brimade concerning their language , even Bulgaria

The majority of Italians emigrated because they had to chose between communist and Italian citizenship in 48 (between 120,000 and 150,000). But Italy undertook to pay compensation for war damages, and held back two thirds of the amount to cover the refugees property. Italy was supposed to pay it directly to the refugees, but in practice, the sums were so small, that some people refused to accept the payment. The debt that was inherited (property that was denationalised) was even smaller, we deposited the entire amount, but the Italian government has so far not touched the money. We sympathise with the Esuli and everyone that was killed, but should we just reassess everything and compensate them directly? I fear that in 10 years from now the whole of Italy will believe that we ethnicaly cleansed and killed at least 15.000 people.

goliath

05-04-2005, 12:46 PM

[QUOTE=Zlatorog]He had many Jewish friends, one of them was his top lieutenant for 20 years. He completely cut ties with Moscow in 1948 and carried on with his own kind of communism. Rather early it was transformed into socialism, but too late for many. We will soon see with what kind of funny stuff Silvester Stallone and Robert de Niro have come up with.
Jewish is not a major reason to be bad or good neither to be wrong or right ..Jews you are talking about have a propention for communism as a good alternative to fascism , and after a few years ,conclusion was :
Communism = Fascism..
Is there a border between communism and socialism..?
Silvester and roberto (both with Italian origin ..) if you mean US ,US is the only country who succeded in build a united country with more or less an europeen idea ,but they did it in a better way ,and since yet IT'S WORK..!
It doesn't exist a perfect country ,with perfect rules , I do think US is the las large democracy existing yet on our charming planet ,France who is singing "we are the clever 'n' better ,is not anymore a democracy ,we are back with the nobilty and privileges ,but some French are not satisfy...who nows..
We equate fascism with racism and have that well documented. It is evident that Mussolini used the Jews only as pawns. The core of fascism was superiority. Mussolini himself never believed in any racial theories. Riight. He imposed anti-jewish laws in 1938 because of Germany... What utter garbage.
Mussolini was a real madman ,he was cured several times in insane asylum, and his friend Hitler was suffering the same desease

This has nothing to do with the persecution of our minority or the confiscation of our assets, because see, we were not communist, communism was extremely marginal and the activists were in jail. The resistance was hijacked no sooner than in 1943.
The resistance on a certain period is providing the dictator for the following regime...and so on ..
A double cross trap is also not suing Berlusconi for his Gonars remark.
I don't appreciate Berlusconi , is a real thief ,and a stupid man ,but he don't care about my opinion ..
These times I'm really out of my mark ,I've seen to much theater and play and repeating play...it's like a vaccine....

The majority of Italians emigrated because they had to chose between communist and Italian citizenship in 48 (between 120,000 and 150,000). But Italy undertook to pay compensation for war damages, and held back two thirds of the amount to cover the refugees property. Italy was supposed to pay it directly to the refugees, but in practice, the sums were so small, that some people refused to accept the payment. The debt that was inherited (property that was denationalised) was even smaller, we deposited the entire amount, but the Italian government has so far not touched the money. We sympathise with the Esuli and everyone that was killed, but should we just reassess everything and compensate them directly? I fear that in 10 years from now the whole of Italy will believe that we ethnicaly cleansed and killed at least 15.000 people.
Injustice is a corollary of this world , I would like to think it exist another ..but I can't...
Best things to you Zlato..

Zlatorog

05-05-2005, 04:17 AM

Jewish is not a major reason to be bad or good neither to be wrong or right ..]

Your question was, if the dictator was honest, and I was wondering if you knew. He came up with this 'Muslim Atheist' ethnicity, because too many of them fought in his army.

Is there a border between communism and socialism..?..

Holtzman kibbutz vs Ophra's kibbutz?

Silvester and roberto (both with Italian origin ..) if you mean US ,US is the only country who succeded in build a united country with more or less an europeen idea ,but they did it in a better way ,and since yet IT'S WORK..!..?..

We have a 'Kucinich type of democracy' (http://www.us-rs.si/en/index.php?sv_path=6) here and if the Americans knew, they'd destroy us. One of their companies is already suing our statelet for $300 million, and I assure you, they had a crappy offer. The Erased will be the only foreigners in this country. If they opted for Slovenian citizenship in 1992, they had only six months to do so, they would have enjoyed the same rights as others. 170,000 such residents successfully applied, but many of those who did not were either unaware that they would have to re-register, could not get proper documents, especially in Serbia, or simply refused to do so. As a result, 18,305 people were erased from the permanent population registry. But the problem is, noone's heard of them until 1998 and it doesn't make sense to anyone that they suddenly discovered that they were erased only when their old documents were destroyed. We were all very fond of our new ones that were printed right away (passport & ID) and not so fond of such families like Arkan and his parents - a nice example, he was born here and his father was an army officer. Because of all of this it is very very hard to immigrate to this country.

It doesn't exist a perfect country ,with perfect rules , I do think US is the las large democracy existing yet on our charming planet ,France who is singing "we are the clever 'n' better ,is not anymore a democracy ,we are back with the nobilty and privileges ,but some French are not satisfy...who nows....?

We see France as a totalitarian state and noone even cares about Britain anymore.

Mil

06-28-2005, 12:19 PM

Posted by Zlatorog:

He had many Jewish friends, one of them was his top lieutenant for 20 years.

Forgot his name......!!!! He was actually #2 person with Tito's partisans and later #2 in Tito's government....

Zlatorog

06-28-2005, 12:28 PM

Mosha.

Fallujah

08-10-2005, 01:42 PM

Those photos are a sick. However this does not represent the palestinian struggle in its entirity, they are rogue agents in every war.

minusthejihad

08-10-2005, 01:48 PM

Those photos are a sick. However this does not represent the palestinian struggle in its entirity, they are rogue agents in every war.

So if according to polls, roughly 80% of Palestinians "do not believe Israel should exist at all", is it safe to say that about %80 of them are rogue agents?

Fallujah

08-10-2005, 08:11 PM

So if according to polls, roughly 80% of Palestinians "do not believe Israel should exist at all", is it safe to say that about %80 of them are rogue agents?

You just love making your silly little attempts to twist my words dont you? Following my every topic.

By rogue agents I mean Anti-Semitic Terrorists. Your statement is a complete fallacy.

minusthejihad

08-10-2005, 11:10 PM

You just love making your silly little attempts to twist my words dont you? Following my every topic.

By rogue agents I mean Anti-Semitic Terrorists. Your statement is a complete fallacy.

I know what you meant. Nice shot at deflection, but let's stick to the topic at hand.

Lucky for me, I have stats and sources on my side. And if you want to question the validity of my source, I've made sure it's a Palestinian source:

http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2002/no45.htm

JMCC Public Opinion PollNo. 45 - May 29- 31, June 1-2 , 2002
On The Palestinian Attitudes Towards
The Palestinian Situation in General

Intifadah and resistance

* A great majority remained supportive of continuing the Intifadah with a slight retraction to 78.9 percent from 83.9 percent in March 2002 and 80.1 percent in December 2001.
Popular opinion increased its radicalization when 51.1 percent said that the aim of the Intifadah is to liberate all Palestinian land (historic Palestine) as opposed to 42.8 percent who said the Intifadah's aim is to end the Israeli occupation. This marks as a change from the December 2001 results when only 43.9 percent said the Intifadah's aim is to liberate all of historic Palestine and 48.1 percent considered the goal to end the occupation.
The majority of those interviewed, 71.7 percent, believe that Palestinian military operations are a suitable response during the current political situation as opposed to only 22.5 percent who objected to military operations during the Intifadah and considered them harmful.
Most Palestinians, 47.9 percent, do not see a difference between Palestinian military operations conducted inside Israel or in the occupied territories.
As for suicide bombing operations, 68.1 percent of those interviewed supported them and only 26 percent opposed them. This is a retract of support for suicide bombings when in March 2002 72 percent supported them and in December 2001 when 74 percent supported them.

How you like them apples?

Cato

08-13-2005, 08:51 PM

You should show him the Palestinian Polling that showed that most Palestinians want to emulate the Israeli State.

Perhaps that one by Khalil Shikaki done monthly were Israel always gets an 80% or higher vote from Palestinians as what country they want to emulate Israel.

I must say that if I were an Englishman trying to prove the Irish are an uncivilized race of backwards barbarians I would just use fallujah as my argument.

Velvel

02-10-2006, 12:04 AM

why are the photos on this thread scrambled?

HailAndKill

04-20-2006, 02:37 PM

Dear Unfair,
Is that why you support terrorism? Israel dislikes hatred, murder, just waiting for peace but Israel is defending from being wiped off the face of this earth!

Can u tell me whats the terrorism ? .. Palestine ppl have tanks big army etc for war ? .. i hate ladin etc too cause they are totally terrorist .. but Israel killin young ppl too ..

At World Kids Day .. Israel soldiers killed a father and his son .. His father was sayin a kid near by me ..

Palestines ppl arent innocent? .. and kids?

Easy to flame to muslims so many ppl in Turkiye are muslim and Hizbullah etc. attacked us too we know what u feel . EOKA killed so many Turks some Armenian groups killed Turkish politicians .. but we arent flamin to their religion etc cause ppl are good ppl are same a photo about this..

SO U CANT SAY ISRAEL POLITICIANS ARE TOTALLY INNOCENT ETC TRY TO SEE TRUTH PPL ARE DYING FOR POLITICIANS EGOS..

look it well its not from Turkiye or a muslim country..

http://www.haber34.net/images/stories/kids.jpg

Mediocrates

04-20-2006, 02:44 PM

So what's your point? That the carbombing this week was.....what? Imaginary or you just excuse it?

PILMAN

04-21-2006, 05:30 PM

I've read the thread and I'm Jewish but I don't hold any Germans responsible today, at least not the younger generation accountable for what happened. We should not inflict shame and guilt on them because the younger generation already is very aware of this. Many Germans feel very bad about what happened and have donated the 2 German subs for us that are about 30 million-45 million dollars. They even helped to pay for half the other one. While I realize no ammount of money or what Germany gives us will make up for their past please don't make the Germans feel bad for something the younger generation wasn't involved with. They know what happened, and my mother herself being German and her parents being from Germany know it was a horrible thing to happen to the Jewish people. Remember Germany has a new government and it's not the same country it was before. It's just like Russia, when the bolsheviks took over completely new government. It's something we can't forget but hating the Germans will not bring back our dead, we can only hope to educate people to the point they understand what happened and that it was a tradegy so it will not happen again. I do not hate any German people, I hate Nazis. Very large difference. You don't have to be German to be a Nazi.

nbarzelay

04-22-2006, 09:21 AM

Terrorism is simple to define. Intentional attack on 'soft' targets, that being civilians, which creates the act of 'terror' or a fear that anybody can be next. The IDF's main target are those who perpetrate these terrorist attacks, that at times has unfortunate consequences where collateral damage occurs. The Pal. Arab civilian population are not targeted wholesale, so it's not terrorism. Simple.

physics

04-23-2006, 11:09 AM

Your comments are true. Germany is different today. But, I wonder about the relationship between young & old Germans, since most of the old Germans were Nazis. How does it work?

Justcurious

04-23-2006, 12:12 PM

Your comments are true. Germany is different today. But, I wonder about the relationship between young & old Germans, since most of the old Germans were Nazis. How does it work?

How many were is perhaps debatable. I'm glad, however, that present-day Germans are excluded from the sins of the former Nazis. My older son's common-law wife is half-German and even my paternal ancestry probably came from Germany around the 12th or 13th century.

Toga

04-23-2006, 12:28 PM

How many were is perhaps debatable. I'm glad, however, that present-day Germans are excluded from the sins of the former Nazis. My older son's common-law wife is half-German and even my paternal ancestry probably came from Germany around the 12th or 13th century.

That is your true connection. Congratunations! You have finally identified your roots.

Justcurious

04-23-2006, 12:39 PM

That is your true connection. Congratunations! You have finally identified your roots.

This is only the German connection. If you are still unaware of the Israeli/Jewish connection, please PM me. Nobody else is interested anyway.

Cato

04-23-2006, 06:00 PM

Can u tell me whats the terrorism ? .. Palestine ppl have tanks big army etc for war ? .. i hate ladin etc too cause they are totally terrorist .. but Israel killin young ppl too ..

At World Kids Day .. Israel soldiers killed a father and his son .. His father was sayin a kid near by me ..

Palestines ppl arent innocent? .. and kids?

Easy to flame to muslims so many ppl in Turkiye are muslim and Hizbullah etc. attacked us too we know what u feel . EOKA killed so many Turks some Armenian groups killed Turkish politicians .. but we arent flamin to their religion etc cause ppl are good ppl are same a photo about this..

SO U CANT SAY ISRAEL POLITICIANS ARE TOTALLY INNOCENT ETC TRY TO SEE TRUTH PPL ARE DYING FOR POLITICIANS EGOS..

look it well its not from Turkiye or a muslim country..

http://www.haber34.net/images/stories/kids.jpg

Your proof comes from a Turkish Nationalist Website.

Shall you or I translate this disgusting and blatantly fascist article?

http://www.haber34.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3068&Itemid=1

Innocent Palestinians are not intentionally targetted, innocent Israelis however ARE. If the Palestinians don't like casualties they could have accepted any of the generous offers they have been given, however killing all the Jews is their goal, not statehood.

No terrorism, no counter terrorism it is that simple.

MGB8

04-23-2006, 06:21 PM

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49865

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5BPVF1C5LE (the video)

A New York rally by the Islamic Thinkers Society outside the Israeli consulate yesterday featured chants of "The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real holocaust is on its way!"

The demonstration by the Queens-based group was monitored by the Investigative Project on Terrorism whose members noted signs including "Islam will Dominate" and a picture with an Islamic flag flying over the White House.

The chants were in Arabic and translated by the Investigative Project on Terrorism, headed by Steve Emerson, a former reporter for CNN.

Here are some excerpts from the chants:

Leader (in Arabic): "With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!"

[The rest also respond in Arabic:] "With our blood and our lives we will liberate al Aqsa!

Israeli Zionists What do you say? The real Holocaust is on its way"

"Takbeer!"

Response: "Allahu Akbar!"

"Takbeer!"

Response: "Allahu Akbar!"

"Zionists, Zionists You will pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!

Israeli Zionists You shall pay! The Wrath of Allah is on its way!

The mushroom cloud is on its way! The real Holocaust is on its way!"

"Israel won't last long ... Indeed, Allah will repeat the Holocaust right on the soil of Israel"

"Takbeer!"

Response: "Allahu Akbar!"

According to the Investigative Project on Terrorism, the Islamic Thinkers Society is an offshoot of London's Al-Muhajiroun, a group that celebrated the 9/11 attacks, referring to the hijackers as "the Magnificent 19," and posting a burning picture of the Capitol on its website.