Iran sends two warships to the Suez

[Mediocrates]

Ultimately to dock in Syria.

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&content=48364908

[NewsGuy]

Ultimately to dock in Syria.

http://www.foxnews.mobi/quickPage.html?page=22995&content=48364908
It would be surprising if Israel lets them pass peacefully. So far, the Egyptian Suez Canal administrators deny that there are Iranian ships headed that way altogether, but we'll see soon enough. Could turn into a major incident.

[Cellis]

sink them all

[NewsGuy]

sink them all

That would be by far the best case scenario. Reports say Pres. Obama has been notified of the situation, so I wonder if that means bombing of the ships or just the stopping and arrest of the crews?

[Cellis]

Letting them through would make Israel look weak. Using ultimate force would stop future attempts. Simply, Iran has no business there. This is no different then flotilla incident.

[Mediocrates]

Stationing them semi-permanently in a Syrian port is a poor-man's coastal anti aircraft defense and/or spec ops warfare deployment station. They are also possibly ASW ships of some kind. One is an Alvand class frigate the other is a supply ship, whatever that means.

[Cellis]

Remember "2007 Iran Hostage Crisis" (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=2007+Iran+Hostage+Crisis&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) It can be a good material against them. Plus if Obama doesn't want a new mideast crisis they should deploy some of their ships to region for a blockade.

[Mediocrates]

One of Iran's Alvands was sunk by the US 04/18/1988 after a US warship was damaged by a mine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis

[JerichoMissile]

Iran sending warships in israels backyard, is like the USSR sending nuclear missiles to cuba during the cold war.

Israel must not appease world opinion, israel shouldnt care what the media says about it, the media will be anti israel no matter what israel does.

Sinking them is a bit harsh, even for a right winger like me, israel should first inform syria either directly or indirectly (through the USA if need be), that this is a major provocation,

Imagine what iran would say and do if an israeli warship was in the persian gulf!!!!!!!

Than israel should give the warships about 10 warnings, and record everything so when the anti semitic world blames israel for whatever happens israel has proof it gave 10 warnings to turn around, and if this dosent work, use force, and if it starts a war so be it, theres gonna be a war one day anyway.

Israel must use its PR machine to tell the hostile world that iran sending warships off the coast of israel is like the USSR sending missiles to cuba, i think even the most hardline israel bashers will use their puny brains and figure it out that israel is in the right (maybe im being nieve)

[curlyg]

Imagine what iran would say and do if an israeli warship was in the persian gulf!!!!!!!

Israeli subs were in the persian gulf a few months ago, the Iranians said nothing and did nothing of substance.

[Mediocrates]

Iran changed its mind. They are not going through the Suez

[farmboy]

Iran changed its mind. They are not going through the Suez
That's a real shame. America could have offered assylum and claimed 2 more ships for its fleet ;)
Well it's been done before with aicraft and lets face it the Iranian people want a change.
Seriously it may be an avenue worth pursuing. What a coup heheheh.

[idf3000]

Iran and Global Jihad international are involved in egyptian turmoil since the beginning and finance islamist activism and Muslim Brotherhood and other extremist movements and networks

[idf3000]

If Americans allow Mr Obama to finish his mandate,islamist extremists will rule all arab countries,Obama is himself a HYPOCRIT ISLAMIC FANATIC

[idf3000]

During 2008 race,Mr Obama visited Dubai and met there individuals and networks who finance Al Qaida and Bin Laden and received from them money for his campaign

[NewsGuy]

The Iranian finally get a case of cold feet (or fear of lead poisoning) :)

Plans by two Iranian warships to pass through the Suez Canal into the Mediterranean have been cancelled, says an Egyptian official.

The unnamed official was reported as saying the plans had been withdrawn, without giving a reason.

He said the ships were near the Saudi Red Sea port of Jeddah.

Israel had reacted angrily to the plans, with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman warning that it could not "forever ignore these provocations".

He said the vessels were planning on sailing to Syria - an arch Israeli opponent in the region - though this has not been confirmed by Iranian authorities.

-BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12493614)

[JerichoMissile]

This really is interesting, i would love to know the REAL reason why the iranians chickened out

Was it all just some kinda publicity stunt and they never really intended to send any ships to syria?

, or did israel send a little message to the iranians through a third party of course (like jordan) warning them if they send the ships, it will be war.

Or maybe someone with a brain in irans leadership advised that starting a direct war with israel at this time is a war iran would never win, and so they stood down!

[Cellis]

I heard that egypt let 2 iran warships through the canal

[Mediocrates]

Egypt said they would permit them passage. So far the ships have not traversed the canal.

[Reffo]

I don't think Israel would consider stopping those ships unless they would do something directly to threaten Israel, or Israel's interests, like breaking the Gaza blockade or similar.

[JerichoMissile]

I don't think Israel would consider stopping those ships unless they would do something directly to threaten Israel, or Israel's interests, like breaking the Gaza blockade or similar.

2 Iranian ships (Iran is israels arch enemy dont forget) are going to syria (which is israels 2nd arch enemy) and your saying thats not a threat to israel?? hmmmm
I wonder what the ships might carrying as "gifts" to the syrians? persian cotton candy perhaps? or something more sinister? let me think

Even if they arnt carry weapons to syria, what do you think they will discuss? how to make peace? or how to create another holocaust? hmmm let me think??

I think this is a major direct threat to israel short term and medium term security and it should be treated as such and not dismissed as just nothing, israel shouldnt allow its enemies who are hellbent on its destruction to communicate and to plot evil against it, especially in its backyard.

I bet the US is secretely telling israel diplomatically to "exercise restraint", as the US dosent wanna agrevate the oil rich arabs,

but would the US show restraint if nth korean warships started supplying venezuela with missiles/nuclear fuel etc....??
im sure they wouldnt., so why should israel??

[Reffo]

I never said that Iran is not a threat to Israel. What I did say is that Israel would be reluctant to be the first to attack Iran directly. Unless of course Iran would provoke it directly. That's my guess anyway. Of course, I COULD be wrong. We will just have to wait and see.

[bararallu]

That said, Reffo, the minute the Hezzies open fire, Israel should take the opportunity to make these Iranian interlopers a bunch of fish tanks.

[Reffo]

That said, Reffo, the minute the Hezzies open fire, Israel should take the opportunity to make these Iranian interlopers a bunch of fish tanksIn a hot war situation, ALL bets would be off. Especially if the Hezzies (who are the clients/puppets of the Iranians) initiate it ... All bets SHOULD be off.

In such a circumstance, if the Iranian ships would still be around, my advice to the Iranian sailors would be to disembark and disperse. After all, there is no telling where bombs fall in a war situation, is there?

[bararallu]

As a certified PADI diver, I like shipwrecks :)

[Mediocrates]

Blanket them with ECM and surveillance around the clock. Learn everything you can about their electronic signatures. That includes air, sea, land and submerged.

[NewsGuy]

After numerous conflicting reports, it looks like Israel has allowed those ships to pass unharmed. Big mistake.

[Reffo]

Newsboy

Seriously, Iran sent those ships as a provocation. They would love nothing more than for Israel to react and to attack the ships. It would be a gift for them, even if they would lose both ships. It would let them off the hook with their domestic problems. They would depict Israel as an aggressor, whip up nationalist feelings and distract domestic public opinion from their wish to topple the Iranian regime. I won't even talk about the rain of Hezbollah missiles that would fall on Israel's population centres ...

I ask you, what would Israel gain by all that?

[Cellis]

time for Israel to send some ships to persian gulf

[bararallu]

We have a bunch of subs there already.

[Mediocrates]

You don't move a frigate to a new picket and leave it there for year (as they plan to) unless it's not really sea worthy or it can't fulfill it's role on the water. Iran is creating some kind of command post in Syria, most likely a poor man's anti aircraft anti ship radar post. They second ship is a supply ship or a troop transport probably for Spec Ops.

Iran knows that putting their on patrol in the eastern Med is more likely to result in some mid ocean catastrophe or worse, a complete breakdown that requires them getting some country to throw them a tow.

On second thought it's really a corvette not a frigate. It probably carries a 76mm main gun, 4 Chinese Silkworm missiles and mine rails.

[NewsGuy]

Newsboy

Seriously, Iran sent those ships as a provocation. They would love nothing more than for Israel to react and to attack the ships. It would be a gift for them, even if they would lose both ships. It would let them off the hook with their domestic problems. They would depict Israel as an aggressor, whip up nationalist feelings and distract domestic public opinion from their wish to topple the Iranian regime. I won't even talk about the rain of Hezbollah missiles that would fall on Israel's population centres ...

I ask you, what would Israel gain by all that?
Reffo, haven't you learned anything from the mistakes made by not striking back at Iran and other terrorist regimes? You seriously think it's better to hide under your bed in fear that maybe, just maybe, the big bad Hezbullah with shoot missiles into Israel?

Look at today's lesson and learn - No sooner than Israel shows its extreme weakness against the Iranian ships, the Gaza division of Iran's army shot a Grad missile into one of Israel's largest cities - Beer Sheva. Your lesson should be that weakness is seen in the Middle East an an invitation for more terrorism and strength is respected as a deterrent. As for Iran's big democracy movement that you're so concerned about - where is it now? Its leaders are being tortured and raped in Iranian jails, they can do nothing, and their struggle against the Ayatollahs isn't helped nor harmed by Israel defending itself.

[Reffo]

Newsguy

I concede your point about "showing weakness". But that was not my main point. Please read my post again, I actually said " ...I won't even talk about the rain of Hezbollah missiles that would fall on Israel's population centres ...".

What I suggested is that sometimes Israel should consider playing this "Chess Game" with a bit more subtlety and consider the implications of attacking the ships. As I said, it would hand a gift to the Iranian regime by allowing them to whip up nationalist sentiments and letting them off the hook that they face from the domestic rebellion NOW.

Newsguy, I ask you this. What would be the greater gain? Sinking two Iranian ships? Or allowing the Iranian protesters to continue and perhaps eventually topple this cursed Iranian regime? I accept that there is no clear cut answer to this because there is no guarantee that the regime would be toppled, but IMHO, it is worth the gamble. I personally, would prefer the second option because the gains from it would be much greater.

[NewsGuy]

As I said, it would hand a gift to the Iranian regime by allowing them to whip up nationalist sentiments and letting them off the hook that they face from the domestic rebellion NOW.

Newsguy, I ask you this. What would be the greater gain? Sinking two Iranian ships? Or allowing the Iranian protesters to continue and perhaps eventually topple this cursed Iranian regime? I accept that there is no clear cut answer to this because there is no guarantee that the regime would be toppled, but IMHO, it is worth the gamble. I personally, would prefer the second option because the gains from it would be much greater.
Reffo my friend,

This reasoning has been used by Western governments in the past several years. Unfortunately, the result has been a bad one, i.e., Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollahs have gotten much stronger with conventional and nuclear capabilities, and the opposition leadership has been crushed.

It's very unpredictable what an Israeli strike at the Iranian ships, or perhaps even just boarding them, inspecting them, and releasing them if no weapons found, could actually weaken the current Iranian leadership.

[Reffo]

Reffo my friend,

This reasoning has been used by Western governments in the past several years. Unfortunately, the result has been a bad one, i.e., Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollahs have gotten much stronger with conventional and nuclear capabilities, and the opposition leadership has been crushed.

It's very unpredictable what an Israeli strike at the Iranian ships, or perhaps even just boarding them, inspecting them, and releasing them if no weapons found, could actually weaken the current Iranian leadershipYes, but you must admit that right now there are concrete rumblings in Iran. The Iranian masses are genuinely trying their hardest to topple this regime. They are actually out in the street spilling their own blood trying to topple this rotten Iranian theocracy. Do you really feel the need for Israel to be seen to be the one that sabotages their efforts? If yes, then I ask you, would the gains outweigh the likely losses? Personally, I don't think so. But even if you are correct about your prediction that the regime will squash the masses, even then, Israel will have other opportunities to sink Iranian ships and more. All I am saying is that NOW is NOT the right time. Just my opinion ...

[NewsGuy]

Yes, but you must admit that right now there are concrete rumblings in Iran. The Iranian masses are genuinely trying their hardest to topple this regime. They are actually out in the street spilling their own blood trying to topple this rotten Iranian theocracy. Do you really feel the need for Israel to be seen to be the one that sabotages their efforts? If yes, then I ask you, would the gains outweigh the likely losses? Personally, I don't think so. But even if you are correct about your prediction that the regime will squash the masses, even then, Israel will have other opportunities to sink Iranian ships and more. All I am saying is that NOW is NOT the right time. Just my opinion ...
You're right about being careful about the timing of military action, but I don't have confidence in the Iranian opposition since they've already been pretty much defeated, so the whole concept of overthrowing the Iranian regime may be moot, unfortunately.

I figure that no matter what Israel does, it is blamed by the world for everything that ails the Muslim world, so it might as well do what's in its best interest regardless of what's going on in the Muslim world.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. Ultimately, it looks like the Israeli government must agree with your position, not mine.

But the result is that the Iranian opposition is crushed, a Hamas missile hit Beer Sheva, and the Iranian warships are safely docked in Syria with a weak Israel grumbling about the great "provocation."

[jbg]

Reffo, haven't you learned anything from the mistakes made by not striking back at Iran and other terrorist regimes? You seriously think it's better to hide under your bed in fear that maybe, just maybe, the big bad Hezbullah with shoot missiles into Israel?I agree. I doubt it's coincidence.


Look at today's lesson and learn - No sooner than Israel shows its extreme weakness against the Iranian ships, the Gaza division of Iran's army shot a Grad missile into one of Israel's largest cities - Beer Sheva. Your lesson should be that weakness is seen in the Middle East an an invitation for more terrorism and strength is respected as a deterrent. As for Iran's big democracy movement that you're so concerned about - where is it now? Its leaders are being tortured and raped in Iranian jails, they can do nothing, and their struggle against the Ayatollahs isn't helped nor harmed by Israel defending itself.I think perhaps it's time for some selected Mullahs or Imams in Iran to be shot.