Eid Mubarak

[andak01]

We take this day to remember Prophet Abraham (SAW) and his sacrifice of a sheep in lieu of his son Isaac. Today is Eid al Adha, marking the last day of the pilgrimage of Hadj. There was a tragedy earlier today in Mecca as the crowds rushed towards Mina, some were trampled. Imagine a crowd of over two million people moving rapidly and is isn't hard to see how this could happen. I pray for the families of those people and their loss, but know that their loved ones died fulfilling a lifelong dream of visiting Mecca.

Abraham was one of the greatest Jews and indeed one of the greatest men. And today, as everyday, I will remember him and his family in my prayers.

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by andak01
Abraham was one of the greatest Jews and indeed one of the greatest men. And today, as everyday, I will remember him and his family in my prayers.

Does Islam accept Abraham as a Jew? I thought they regard him as an arab?
Oh another question about religious figures, I wanted to know if Joshua is also an important figure in Islam. I am interested because of the time when some Palestinians decided to "vandalise" his tomb and declare it in the name of Allah.

[Am Yisrael]

Yes there has been a tradgedy today and I give respect for those who died. The news reporters here in Britain described it as a "stampede".

[andak01]

Originally posted by Am Yisrael
Does Islam accept Abraham as a Jew? I thought they regard him as an arab?
Oh another question about religious figures, I wanted to know if Joshua is also an important figure in Islam. I am interested because of the time when some Palestinians decided to "vandalise" his tomb and declare it in the name of Allah.

Here is a list of Prophets mentioned in the Qur'an. Joshua's name does not appear. I need to hit my Bible again. Is Joshua considered a Prophet or a King?
http://www.themuslimwoman.com/chooseyourpath/prophetsinquran.htm

At any rate, you may hear Muslims refer to Abraham (Ibrahim in Arabic) as a Muslim. Just remember that the word Muslim means simply 'believer'. We make absolutely no differentiation between the G_D Abraham prayed to and Allah. Two words for the same thing. You might find some (IMHO wrongheaded) Muslims that would be averse to say that Abraham was Jewish. We certainly think that his faith in one God was more important than his race.

I don't know about the incident you are referring to. A cursory search on Yahoo only found mention of the tomb, not of any vandalism.

Whereas a Shiite or a Sufi might point to many places and call them Holy, Sunnis only recognize three places. The Haraam in Mecca, the Prophet's mosque in Medina and the site of Muhammad's (SAW) ascent to heaven (Miradj). This is thought to have taken place on the site of Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem. There are, for a devout and knowledgeable Sunni, no other sites to be 'claimed' in the name of Allah. And even then, it is well to remember a Hadith where the Prophet of Islam said he would rather see the Kaaba taken apart stone by stone than to spill the blood of a believer.

All ground belongs to G_D, God, Allah. He created it and it is only through his blessings that any of us get to stand on it in the first place. If we would remember that and be thankful, the world would be a better place, inshallah.

[Communication]

Originally posted by andak01
We take this day to remember Prophet Abraham (SAW) and his sacrifice of a sheep in lieu of his son Isaac. Today is Eid al Adha, marking the last day of the pilgrimage of Hadj. There was a tragedy earlier today in Mecca as the crowds rushed towards Mina, some were trampled. Imagine a crowd of over two million people moving rapidly and is isn't hard to see how this could happen. I pray for the families of those people and their loss, but know that their loved ones died fulfilling a lifelong dream of visiting Mecca.

Abraham was one of the greatest Jews and indeed one of the greatest men. And today, as everyday, I will remember him and his family in my prayers.

My condolences to the families of the people hurt in Mecca. I wish you and your family to be well, and spiritual fulfillment for the remainder of the holiday for all honorable Muslims everywhere.

[Mediocrates]

Which Joshua? The first or the second?

[Am Yisrael]

On Yom Kippur, October 10, 2000, rioting Palestinians attempted to destroy the Tomb of Joshua Ben Nun, located in Kifl Harith, near the Samarian city of Ariel. They were stopped by IDF troops at the site.

Since the outbreak of the hostilities in September 2000, Rachel's Tomb has come under furious gun and firebomb assault by Palestinian gunmen, including members of the Palestinian Authorities security forces. Jewish worshippers were prevented from approaching the site until the end of November when bulletproof buses started shuttling the worshippers to the door of the fortified tomb.

There have been various other instances. For listing see http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/reports/Denial_of_Religious_Rights_by_the_Palestinian_Auth ority.asp

[ayesha]

Originally posted by andak01
We take this day to remember Prophet Abraham (SAW) and his sacrifice of a sheep in lieu of his son Isaac. Today is Eid al Adha, marking the last day of the pilgrimage of Hadj. There was a tragedy earlier today in Mecca as the crowds rushed towards Mina, some were trampled. Imagine a crowd of over two million people moving rapidly and is isn't hard to see how this could happen. I pray for the families of those people and their loss, but know that their loved ones died fulfilling a lifelong dream of visiting Mecca.

Abraham was one of the greatest Jews and indeed one of the greatest men. And today, as everyday, I will remember him and his family in my prayers.

Eid Mubarak and Eid Saeed to you and yours too andak01.

[andak01]

That link didn't work for me. A Yahoo search on Joshua Ben Nun returned this one. Maybe not the most unbiased, but it'll have to do until I find something more mainstream.

http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/PLO_RECORD/PLO_Denies_Freedoms/plo_denies_freedoms.asp

I have to believe this report and it is another sad commentary on Palestinian hatred. But I have no inkling of any Islamic stance against Joshua.

BTW, I asked my wife, a native born Moroccan last night if she thought of Abraham as a Jew. She said no. Then I asked her if it would offend her to hear a Muslim refer to him that way. She said not at all. Once again, we place his belief in God above his race, but with the exception of extreme anti-Jewish (I won't say anti-Semites), noone would be offended by his origins. We don't deny that he was Jewish. Of course I didn't do my poll among Al Qaida members. Results may vary. :)

[elke]

Who cares about what Al Qaeda members think? It's like asking for advice from insane asylum inhabitants! ;)

It's you and yours that matter, Andak - you are the other hand we need in order to clap, not them!

Oh, and happy holiday(s?)! :)

[andak01]

Shukran jiddan (Thank you very much). I'll see if I can post some recipes for lamb here. One of the interesting ones I tried in Morocco was liver wrapped in dried fat. They take a thin sheet of fat from the sheep and dry it until it is like parchment, then cut it into strips, wrap it around pieces of the liver and make a kabob like that. This dish is called bulfaff.

[Gautama]

Originally posted by andak01
Shukran jiddan (Thank you very much). I'll see if I can post some recipes for lamb here. One of the interesting ones I tried in Morocco was liver wrapped in dried fat. They take a thin sheet of fat from the sheep and dry it until it is like parchment, then cut it into strips, wrap it around pieces of the liver and make a kabob like that. This dish is called bulfaff.

Put me down as being interested in that. While in Tulsa OK I happened upon a newly opened Afghan restaurant that served some scrumptioius mutton, alongside that came an interesting seasoning made of ground grapeseed or something.

My kingdom for some mutton. If it's not appropriate to turn this thread in to competition for Martha Stewart, feel free to drop me what recipes you can find at:

clistensprechen@yahoo.com

...also at www.upsizethis.org

Thanks in advance.

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by andak01
Shukran jiddan (Thank you very much). I'll see if I can post some recipes for lamb here. One of the interesting ones I tried in Morocco was liver wrapped in dried fat. They take a thin sheet of fat from the sheep and dry it until it is like parchment, then cut it into strips, wrap it around pieces of the liver and make a kabob like that. This dish is called bulfaff.

MMM, I love Morrocan food!!!! :) :D Have you heard of Shakshuka? Its kind of a flat tomato based sloppy dish made with spices (sometimes with egg). Ive heard someone say its a Morrocan dish (correct me if im wrong), but its one of the most famous dishes in Israel (plus Sharwarma and Sabih).

Ive never heard of Bulfaf, but have you heard of Couba Burel. Its meat balls (usually lamb) wrapped in a type dough. I think this is an Iraqi dish.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by andak01
[...] anti-Jewish (I won't say anti-Semites) [...]

It's the same for historical reasons. Check a dictionary of your choice. E.g: www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: an·ti-Sem·i·tism
Pronunciation: "an-ti-'se-m&-"ti-z&m, "an-"tI-
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
- an·ti-Se·mit·ic /-s&-'mi-tik/ adjective
- an·ti-Sem·ite /-'se-"mIt/ noun

[andak01]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
It's the same for historical reasons. Check a dictionary of your choice. E.g: www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Main Entry: an·ti-Sem·i·tism
Pronunciation: "an-ti-'se-m&-"ti-z&m, "an-"tI-
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group
- an·ti-Se·mit·ic /-s&-'mi-tik/ adjective
- an·ti-Sem·ite /-'se-"mIt/ noun

I know what the dictionary says. The word is derived from Noah's son Shem. The Arabs are also Semitic as is their language. Therefore I prefer not to use the word.

"The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the earth." (Genesis 9:18-19).

It is also said that an anti-Semite is equivalent to an anti-Zionist although one term relates to a religion and the other to a political persuasion. I am aware of Jews that are anti-Zionist, so they must have hostility towards themselves if the above is true. Isn't it possible to disagree politically without leaving one's religion?

[Gautama]

The way I see it, it was a bigot that wrote that definition, insofar as equating a religion to being a racial or ethnic group, to the exclusion of anyone else who are semites but non-Jewish. The definition is in gross error, and is therefore just plain-ole wrong.

[elke]

Originally posted by Gautama
The way I see it, it was a bigot that wrote that definition, insofar as equating a religion to being a racial or ethnic group, to the exclusion of anyone else who are semites but non-Jewish. The definition is in gross error, and is therefore just plain-ole wrong.

That may well be, but the word currently has a meaning that's understood by majority of people, obtuse and not. Therefore, the origins or moral qualities of the person who invented the word per se matter little, so long as everyone (or almost everyone) understands what is meant by it.

[Gautama]

Those who work at Oxford, who set forth the Oxford English Dictionary--the gold standard to which all other dictionaries are measured--would disagree with your assessment that once a word is defined, that definition is carved in stone.

It is not. As common usage continues to move toward the more accurate definition of the term, so have/will any/all dictionary definitions follow/ed.

[elke]

This word is in continued use. Therefore, if you look at your "gold standard" of an Oxford dictionary, you will find exactly the same definition as that understood by most people, apparently except you and few others like you,

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Gautama
The way I see it, it was a bigot that wrote that definition, insofar as equating a religion to being a racial or ethnic group, to the exclusion of anyone else who are semites but non-Jewish. The definition is in gross error, and is therefore just plain-ole wrong.


Ok so the earth is round the sky is blue. There must be a new page from the rant-o-blogs been distributed.

First off - the voice of bigotry doesn't get to decide who should and should not be offended by hatespeech. Save that for the David Dukes of the world.

Second - terms are what they are and anyone who can't or won't think in context or with a view to reality or history is trolling.

If you have a point make it, if you're being oblique because you want to engage us in some obscure bs ritual like 'let's put the Torah on trial' or 'let's examine Talmud for all it's lies' then kindly take it somewhere else.

Thanks.

[andak01]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
Ok so the earth is round the sky is blue. There must be a new page from the rant-o-blogs been distributed.

Actually the earth is ovate and the sky is only blue under certain conditions. But for my two cents worth, the best I would say is that IMHO the word is inaccurate. It wouldn't be the first time an inaccuracy had fallen into popular usage. We still say the sun rises and sets, though we know that it doesn't move around the earth.


If you have a point make it, if you're being oblique because you want to engage us in some obscure bs ritual like 'let's put the Torah on trial' or 'let's examine Talmud for all it's lies' then kindly take it somewhere else.

Thanks.

If past experience is any indicator, you ain't seen nothing yet from this one.

[Mediocrates]

that's what banning is for.

[elke]

Originally posted by andak01
Actually the earth is ovate and the sky is only blue under certain conditions. But for my two cents worth, the best I would say is that IMHO the word is inaccurate. It wouldn't be the first time an inaccuracy had fallen into popular usage. We still say the sun rises and sets, though we know that it doesn't move around the earth.

Cute! :)


If past experience is any indicator, you ain't seen nothing yet from this one. .[/B]

Ouch! :eek: