Homeless in Israel

[Communication]

I find this deeply disturbing. What good is a Jewish society when there is such a wide discrepency between rich and poor? Israel's priorities are all screwed up. Money continues to flow to settlements when there are Jewish people living in the streets of Tel Aviv and they need to restructure their tax scheme- they don't even have a death tax.

"As many in Israel prepare to remodel or run at the threat of Iraqi attacks, residents of a rain-soaked Tel Aviv homeless encampment say that a direct hit by a Scud missile would, if nothing else, put them out of their misery."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=261826&displayTypeCd=1&sideCd=1&contrassID=2

[Mediocrates]

Highest taxes in the industrial world, crazy quilt of regulations, corruption, bizarre byzantine laws, it's a miracle it works at all.

I'm not sure if this is current but it's a start

http://www.israeleconomy.org/

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Communication
when there is such a wide discrepency between rich and poor?
I thought for a second that you were referring to the U.S., where there is a huge discrepancy between rich and poor and there is, of course, a problem of homelessness, especially in cities like SF, where you live.

Unfortunately, poverty and homelessness is a problem in virtually all countries, and it is something that might be able to be solved at least partially through eliminatng terrorism and reallocating funds from the war against radical Islam to a war against poverty.



Money continues to flow to settlements when there are Jewish people living in the streets of Tel Aviv and they need to restructure their tax scheme- they don't even have a death tax. I don't know why you think that taxing the dead is a good thing, but anyway, the "settlements," as you refer to Israel's suburbs deserve as much funding as any other place in the country.

[Communication]

Very quickly, and then I'll have to come back to this thread later. Big Day tomorrow!



Originally posted by NewsGuy
I thought for a second that you were referring to the U.S., where there is a huge discrepancy between rich and poor and there is, of course, a problem of homelessness, especially in cities like SF, where you live.

Unfortunately, poverty and homelessness is a problem in virtually all countries, and it is something that might be able to be solved at least partially through eliminatng terrorism and reallocating funds from the war against radical Islam to a war against poverty.

The problem in SF is glarring. Shame on us.

I don't ordinarily hold Israel to higher standards than I hold other countries, but I'm going to here.


[i]
I don't know why you think that taxing the dead is a good thing, but anyway, the "settlements," as you refer to Israel's suburbs deserves as much funding as any other place in the country. [/B]

Taxing the dead: Inheritance taxes provide a redistribution of wealth so that money doesn't accumulate too much in any given family. Israel doesn't need dynasties. Last I checked, they also didn't tax world wide income. While that may be a draw for attracting westerners to Israel, it allows the wealthy to hide money in low or no tax jurisdictions. Meanwhile, the middle and lower class continue to be overtaxed because they generally earn and spend their income locally.

As far as investments in Israeli "suburbs," I'm not talking Gilo, I mean places like Kiryat Arba and Itamar.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Communication
What good is a Jewish society when there is such a wide discrepency between rich and poor?

Actually, if you look into the numbers you will find that the income difference between the rich and the poor in Israel is similar to those of European countries and much lower than in US.

Money continues to flow to settlements when there are Jewish people living in the streets of Tel Aviv and they need to restructure their tax scheme- they don't even have a death tax.


The problem of poverty can't be solved just by pouring money on it. There are no settlements in Europe, the defence expenditure is minuscule compared to that of Israel and yet, you'll see many more homeless on the streets of London or Paris than in Tel Aviv.

In Israel the poverty is largely concentrated in two sectors - the ultraorthodox and the arabs. In both sectors families have a large number of children and at most one parent working.
Further increasing the child support and the unemployment benefits (if the money were available) would just aggravate the problem by encouraging even larger families and removing all incentive to work.

[elke]

Further increasing the child support and the unemployment benefits (if the money were available) would just aggravate the problem by encouraging even larger families and removing all incentive to work.

You sound like a Republican :D

Hopefully, some of that money (if and when available) would go to research on how recurrent poverty works psychologically and what can be done to motivate people to produce.

[Mediocrates]

http://www.israeleconomy.org/pubs/deprpubs.htm

For a good survey of the terrain at least from the right centrist low tax privatization perspective.

[Am Yisrael]

Just compare it to the ghettos and areas where our Jewish forefathers lived and not compared to the Western culture. Many Israelis are homeless but it doesnt matter. What matters is that they have their freedom. Things will get better when the violence subsides. What I am worried about is the "immigration out of Israel" feeling among Israelis for those who want a better life.

[Mediocrates]

No it's a big deal but it's a problem that can be addressed. After all the unemployment rate in Franchermany is not that different. About 11%.

In Israel's case it's a combination of unemployment and high housing costs. Just like here in Silicon Valley where we have $110k/yr software engineers who are living in shelters because no one can afford the median house price or afford to commute 2.5 hrs each way each day.

The Israelis have to rip a page from the Irish miracle of the last ten years and think very very hard about how to do that. They need to cut taxes appreciably, they need to strip down their regulatory laws and yes they have to cut their government budgets, by a lot. The number floating around is 14 billion NIS. It should be higher. They have to attract foreign investment.

I think they should also abandon the state support of the kibbutz system. I know this is painful but it simply can't continue. The state cannot afford to keep this running simply because it is a reflection of national character.

And importantly they have to get Israelis back to work and make serious headway in getting rid of illegal aliens and expired visa guest workers. Israelis have to be made to do those jobs even if they are unpopular. Coincidently the government has to pare back unemployment benefits slowly.

I would also like to see more micro loan programs. I don't how many there are but they are a good low cost alternative to make-work jobs. Hidden unemployment via pointless government and party jobs is also a big problem and micro loans are a good way to get those people back into the productive economy.

Israel needs to alter it's import export tariff structure so that an export economy can thrive. Today Israel runs a $6 billion trade imbalance with the US. They import about 6 billion more than they export. Clearly the tariff structure is broken considering the depreciation of the NIS compared to the dollar should make exports cheap.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Mediocrates

Today Israel runs a $6 billion trade imbalance with the US. They import about 6 billion more than they export.

Where did you get this number from? As far as I know, US is the only big country with which Israel has a positive trade balance. Most of Israel's trade deficit comes from the trade with Europe.

[Miriam]

Originally posted by Am Yisrael


Many Israelis are homeless but it doesnt matter. What matters is that they have their freedom. :eek:

Time to establish a "nauseating hypocrisy" prize on this forum

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Mercury
Where did you get this number from? As far as I know, US is the only big country with which Israel has a positive trade balance. Most of Israel's trade deficit comes from the trade with Europe.



http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Trade_with_Israel.html

Sourced from


http://www.ita.doc.gov/industry/otea/usftd/Country.xls

(I haven't sifted through the details yet which are compiled month by month country by country).


These are pretty close to the same values I think.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5081.html

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Trade_with_Israel.html

[/url]


I've just checked this source. It says that since 1994 Israel has a surplus in trade with US. ;)

[Mediocrates]

my mistake then !~!~

[Adversary2Arabs]

It is the DUTY of the People of Israel and the Goverment of Israel - in that order - to provide for all of Israel's poor, Jew or gentile. While the Arabs still illegally have "legal" citizenship, it is the DUTY of the People and the Goverment to support them. This is only because it is the People and the Government whom allow this to continue. Fix the problem before it fixes you.