Shinui - making changes

[sharonbn]

The new Shinui ministers are only one day in office, and already are taking actions to implement their humanist-universalist philosophy:

Tommy Lapid, new minister of justice, has began drawing the proposal for a new law that will allow marriage of “marriage denials” – people who refused by the official chief Rabbinate. Such cases include bastards (children of a married mother whose father is not her husband), couples not of the same religion, etc. Judicial sources reveal that the problem is especially frequent among new immigrants from Russia and Ethiopia that sometimes have a hard time “proving” their Judaism to the Rabbi. It is estimated that more than 25,000 Israeli citizens suffer from this problem.

Up until now, “marriage denied” couples could not officially marry in Israel and register in the ministry of internal affairs as a married couple. They had to get married abroad, “by correspondence”, or by councilory marriage (marriage in a consulate, providing one of the couple is a citizen of that country). The problem becomes much worse when a divorce is required. You cannot got divorced by any of the above means. The couples had to get a special permit from the Israeli general attorney to modify their status in the official records. This beaurocratic process took a long time and prolonged the suffering of the couple.

The law proposal, already labeled “revolutionary“, was discussed in the coalition negotiations between Shinui and Mafdal. The ministry of justice has released this statement: “Every person has a basic human right to marry with whomever he/she wishes and raise a family. The state should give the necessary legal aid and recognition for all marriages between citizens of the state. However, in reality, many Israeli citizens are denied this right.”

According to the proposal, a new function in the ministry of justice, “marriage magistrate” will cater for and only for marriage denied couples. Regular couples will still have to go to the chief Rabbinate to get marry. The marriage magistrate will also allow marriage denied couples to get divorced.

[Mediocrates]

interesting, are there any plans to address agunot as well?

[simont]

Who do you think has a better chance of destroying the Jewishness of Israel, Shinui or the Arabs? I think it will be a strong partnership of both sides. Everyone who looks forward to building a lax secular state, that allows anyone with some "feeling" of Jewishness in forgets that they are essentially helping to grow a non-Jewish majority in Israel. Whose to know how their children will feel about the Jews down the line... Seems to me like Shinui is a very dangerous addition to the Israeli government.

[sharonbn]

this is total propoganda nonsense.

Shinui never ever advocated the allowance of "anyone with some "feeling" of Jewishness" into Israel. Shinui never advocated the change of law of return. This is 100% not true.

Shinui is concerned with the separation of religious and civic laws. specifically in areas such as Sabath (e.g. public transportation), military draft, marriage and divorce, death and burial, etc. Shinui will also attempt to divert government funds from religious purposes more towards the general public.

There is absolutely no need to demonize Shinui. they got the vote of 350,000 Israeli voters, not far behind Labor. Comparing Shinui to the Arabs is both inciteful and narrow minded and indicates more about the poor knowledge (if not intellectual) of the speaker, then anything about the party.

[NewsGuy]

Up till now, Israelis could marry (or divorce) anyone they wished in civil ceremonies abroad.

Maybe now it will be fine to have civil ceremonies in Israel, too, but religious ceremonies will still be up to the Rabbinate.

I think that for many people around the world, religious ceremonies are their "real" marriage, while civil ceremonies are just a legal formality. That is something that Tommy Lapid and Shinui will not be able to change.

And, in any event, these measures are just as likely to be overturned by the next government.

[simont]

Originally posted by sharonbn
this is total propoganda nonsense.

Shinui never ever advocated the allowance of "anyone with some "feeling" of Jewishness" into Israel. Shinui never advocated the change of law of return. This is 100% not true.

Shinui is concerned with the separation of religious and civic laws. specifically in areas such as Sabath (e.g. public transportation), military draft, marriage and divorce, death and burial, etc. Shinui will also attempt to divert government funds from religious purposes more towards the general public.

There is absolutely no need to demonize Shinui. they got the vote of 350,000 Israeli voters, not far behind Labor. Comparing Shinui to the Arabs is both inciteful and narrow minded and indicates more about the poor knowledge (if not intellectual) of the speaker, then anything about the party.
You may be right, though I though it seems they make it one of their party lines to demonize Haredi/Orthodox jews in Israel, who also constitute a significant part of the Israeli population.

But the questions I wanted to raise--what is it that makes Israel a Jewish state? What money is it that Shinui is specifically so upset about? What laws, specifically, do they want to change? And when do these changes basicly imply abandonment of the Jewishness of Israel.

Furthermore, why do secular humanists who believe in a non-religious government want to live in Israel...why not move to America? Its certainly an easier life over here, no?

[sharonbn]

Originally posted by simont
You may be right, though I though it seems they make it one of their party lines to demonize Haredi/Orthodox jews in Israel, who also constitute a significant part of the Israeli population.
yet another misconception (or rather, manipulation) on Shinui. First of all, what constitutes “significant” in your eyes? The haredim are ~15% of the Israeli population (20% of the Jewish Israeli population). This means that 80% of the Jews in Israel define themselves as anything between “national religious” (kipa srooga), through traditional, up to secular. In the last decade, The haredi political parites (Shas, Aguda) occupied a much larger portion in the Parliament than the haredim in the general population. In terms of political influence, the gap was even wider.

During the election campaign, Shinui led a strong campaign against the political religious parties and their exploitation of religion and tradition as means to accumulate power and funding. This campaign was heightened by the provocative personality of the leader of the party, Tommy Lapid, a shrewd (albeit new) politician with a gifted sense for publicity stunts. Naturally, Lapid drew fire on to him from the rest of the parties, incl’ Labor and Meretz. However, through all this turmoil, Shinui never lost sight of its unambiguous message: We have no quarrel with the Jewish orthodox community and the Jewish religion in general. We fight the religious political parties, as we believe they exploited religion to support their narrow interests.

Originally posted by simont
But the questions I wanted to raise--what is it that makes Israel a Jewish state? What money is it that Shinui is specifically so upset about? What laws, specifically, do they want to change? And when do these changes basicly imply abandonment of the Jewishness of Israel.
Israel is a Jewish state because of its link with Jewish history the current entire Jewish nation, not because of religious laws. This link is expressed in the law of return, in institutions such as the Jewish agency and Yad Vashem (the museum of Holocaust in Jerusalem). The entire Jewish nation in the world comprise of a majority of secular Jews. The definition of What’s Judaism and who’s a Jew has several answers, and I for one, do not believe the ultra religious definition should be the only valid one.

The political religious parties, namely Shas and Aguda, have proven to many Israelis that their involvement in political life and the power they gained over the last decade was not aimed at the development of Israel and to benefit the general population. Three leaders of Shas were convicted of bribery and fraud and served time in prison. There are many aspects to the abuse of power by the religious parties, in areas such as marriage and divorce, death and burial, kosher permits, army service and other civic duties, etc.

I’ll detail three examples, for your education:

1. Army service:
Ever since the establishment of the state of Israel, it had to rely upon military strength for survival. This means that the army and military service play an important role in Israeli life, economy and culture. Israel has a compulsory military service of three years, after which every veteran serves in reserve duty for one month annually until the age of 55. Ultra religious men have always sought ways to legally or illegally be exempt from this duty (Ultra religious women may be exempt automatically upon a declaration of “religiousness”). The result of the evasive actions of the ultra religious men is that a heavier burden is placed upon secular men, particularly in reserve duty (imagine a student who has exams and is suddenly called to active duty.)

The religious parties supported the exempt of the ultra religious men with law proposals and forgiving policy. This phenomenon culminated in the Tal comity and Tal law. The comity was established to find a solution to the exemption of the ultra religious men. The solution? Expempt all of them. (there is a separate thread here discussing Tal’s law).

2. Child allowance:
The religious parties initiated and supported regulations that benefit their population. For example, As part of its socialist philosophy, the state supports raising children by giving the parents an allowance per child. It is well known that since they do not use birth control measures, ultra religious families are big. (typically between 5-10 children). Aguda initiated a law proposals that significantly increases the allowance after the fifth child. This is contrary to any reason, since the cost of additional children reduces as the family gets bigger, since small children can use the cloths and toys of their older siblings. It does not even matter to the religious parties that the other population who will benefit this regulation is the Israeli Arabs, who share this characteristic.

3. Ministry of religious affairs:
This government office was supposed to fund and regulate the general and municipal rabbinates. It became a pipeline for the religious leaders to channel excessive funds to municipalities that promoted institutions related to these parties. For example, say Shas wants to open a new religious school in a new neighborhood in Jerusalem, but the local population objects? No problem, the ministry of religious affairs will fund a trip abroad of municipal officials for the purpose of “tightening links with the diaspora” and in return, city halls ignores public outcry and allows the new school to open. The new school requires an annual funding of 200,000 NIS? No problem, the ministry of religious affairs will channel 400,000 NIS annually to Jerusalem city hall for some obscure section in the budget law.

The dissolution of the ministry of religious affairs is one of the requirements of shinui discussed during the coalition negotiations. It was agreed with Mafdal that the office will be closed within one year and its functions dispersed to several other offices. Now it was reported Mafdal wishes to back down from this agreement. Ariel Sharon wrote a special letter to Tommy Lapid, reaffirming the commitment to close this problematic office.

I hope you see now that the religious political parties are poor guardians of the “Jewishness” of the state of Israel, and mainly serve to accumulate power and wealth for their leaders.

Originally posted by simont
Furthermore, why do secular humanists who believe in a non-religious government want to live in Israel...why not move to America? Its certainly an easier life over here, no?
You are either naïve or lack basic knowledge of the history of Israel. Do you know who founded the state of Israel? It was the Zionist movement, a fruit of the Jewish secular faction, also dubbed the “education” movement. This movement started in Germany in the 19th cent. And advocated that Jews relinquish old habits and customs, get out of their self-made cultural ghettos, and integrate (not assimilate!) in the modern world. As part of this philosophy, the education movement advocated that Jews must acquire a sense of national self determinism. This concept was outlined in Pinsker’s book “auto-emancipation”, published in 1842.

All the large immigration waves of Jews into Israel, included idealist young Jews, secular, humanist, universlist and socialist-communist. They sought to establish a new Jewish community in Israel, based not on ultra-religious culture and led by Rabbis, but rather based on democratic, socialist principals. In fact, the strongest opposition to the Zionist movement came form the ultra-religious circles. Their Rabbis forbidden their communities to immigrate (and consequentially, many communities perished in the Holocaust). The state of Israel was led from its first day by Zionist secular leaders.

So you see, the state of Israel, the only independent Jewish state, the safe haven of the Jewish people from persecutions, is 100% an achievement of the secular faction of the nation. To this day, this faction remains the defender of the state against its enemies. The ultra religious should not be credited for this achievement and there is absolutely no reason and no justification for the ultra religious to take control over this state.

Life may be hard in Israel right now, whoever wishes to relocate abroad, may do so. The vast majority of secular Israeli Jews regard Israel as their rightful homeland and are prepared to fight over it.

One more thing,
A Jew who says “why not move to America? Its certainly an easier life over here” quickly needs a history lesson. Jewish Life in Germany prior to the rise of the Nazis were safe, pleasant and prosperous. German Jews were leaders in the economy, politics and culture.
As Jews in France, Russia and Canada today can feel, there is only one place in the world a Jew can feel at home.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by NewsGuy

I think that for many people around the world, religious ceremonies are their "real" marriage, while civil ceremonies are just a legal formality. That is something that Tommy Lapid and Shinui will not be able to change.


It's not even the purpose of Shinui to change that. The idea is that everyone should be able to choose whom to marry and through what ceremonies (if any). To me at least it seems obvious that this should be the right of everyone.

[Bard Fan]

Can you tell me more about the Shunui Party?

I am particularly interested in their peace proposal position.

I understand they refuse, rightfully so, to negotiate with Arafat. But suppose there is new leadership that represents the Palestinians who sincerely does come to negotiate in peace, what is the Shunui Party willing to give up for peace?

Have they laid out any sort of peace proposal if that circumstance arose?

I understand they are willing to give up many of the settlements. Is their proposal similar to Barak’s or Clinton’s?

I understand they are willing to give up many of the settlements is about all I know and would be interested in reading more on their platform on this issue.

[LionOfLoyalty]

I am not terribly knowledge on Lapid and Shinui's opinion on the "situation", though I'm told it's closer to Likud's than labor. However, it is fairly moderate from what I'm told. A proposal like Barak's and Clinton's, however, is not something that I believe the Israeli public will accept, it was entirely to generous and it has already been established by the new government that no division of Jerusalem shall occur.

Originally posted by Bard Fan
Can you tell me more about the Shunui Party?

I am particularly interested in their peace proposal position.

I understand they refuse, rightfully so, to negotiate with Arafat. But suppose there is new leadership that represents the Palestinians who sincerely does come to negotiate in peace, what is the Shunui Party willing to give up for peace?

Have they laid out any sort of peace proposal if that circumstance arose?

I understand they are willing to give up many of the settlements. Is their proposal similar to Barak’s or Clinton’s?

I understand they are willing to give up many of the settlements is about all I know and would be interested in reading more on their platform on this issue.