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victot
02-26-2002, 01:35 PM
There is one main reference in the Koran that is used by some to specifically validate the Muslim view that Jerusalem is, and always has been central to Islam. A chapter recounts the story of a dream Mohammed has where he takes a midnight ride (al-Isra) on his flying horse al-Buraq. The narrative of the Koran in Sura 17 describes it as follows:
" Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Holy Mosque (in Mecca) to the furthest away mosque (al-masjid al-Aqsa), the precincts of which we have blessed."

Depending on the source one reads, the mosque that is referred to as the “furthest away mosque” either very clearly refers to Jerusalem, or this vague passage could not refer to Jerusalem. Others believe that while this passage does refer to Jerusalem, it is no longer valid as a holy place to Muslims. The majority of Muslims today seem to think that this passage does refer to Jerusalem, and Jerusalem is very holy to Islam.


We know that Muhammad never visited Jerusalem in the flesh, and Jerusalem is never mentioned by name in the Koran. Some early Muslims are said to have considered Al-Aqsa as a metaphorical place, or a place in heaven. Others also specifically rejected the notion that Jerusalem could be the furthest away mosque, if the passage did in fact refer to an earthly destination, because Palestine is referred to in 30:1 of the Koran as being the “closest region” (adna al-ard).

In the days of Muhammed, around the 7th century, Jerusalem was a Christian city of the Byzantine Empire. In this time, there were only churches in Jerusalem, and the church of St-Mary of Justine stood atop the temple mount.
According to Dr. Manfred R. Lehmann:
The Aksa Mosque was built 20 years after the Dome of the Rock, which was built in 691-692 by Khalif Abd El Malik. The name "Omar Mosque" is therefore false. In or around 711, or about 80 years after Mohammed died, Malik's son, Abd El-Wahd - who ruled from 705-715 - reconstructed the Christian- Byzantine Church of St. Mary and converted it into a mosque. He left the structure, as it was, a typical Byzantine “basilica “structure with a row of pillars on either side of the rectangular” ship in the center. All he added was an onion-like dome on top of the building to make it look like a mosque. He then named it El-Aksa, so it would sound like the one mentioned in the Koran.

It is therefore said by some scholars that while the Holy Mosque refers to the mosque in Mecca, the mosque furthest away refers to the mosque in Medina, and the notion that there is a third holy site in Islam is false.

Bernard Lewis points out that these mosques had a political as well as religious reason for their construction.
“ First of all the new faith had to compete with the beauty of the Christion churches in Jerusalem, such as the Holy Sepulchre, which it seemed to imitate. Also he had a rival caliph Ibn al-Zubayr in Mecca. For this reason he wanted to prevent pilgrims from visiting Mecca.”


Another opinion about Jerusalem which Islam has is that although it was initially important to Muhammad, approximately one and a half-years before he went to Medina, it came to lose its significance when Muhammad saw that he could not in large part sway the Jews away from their religion. When he realized this, he became very embittered towards the Jews, and made several changes in his practices, to specifically differentiate Islam from Judaism. He no longer tried to convert Jews, he changed the Muslim Sabbath from Saturday to Friday, and he did not celebrate the Day of Atonement in his second year at Medina, as he had done in the previous year of 622. He substituted this with the fast of Ramadan. He eased many dietary restrictions. Perhaps the biggest change he made of all however, was he changed the qibla, the place where g-d emanates, from Jerusalem to Mecca.


Professor Bernard Lewis, an expert on Islam and Arabism relates a story told by the late-ninth-early-tenth-century Arab historian Mohammed ibn al-Tabari about a visit of Caliph Omar to Jerusalem, just conquered by the invaders from Arabia:
‘When Omar came to Ilya (Jerusalem), al-Tabari wrote, "he ordered his servants to summon Kab al-Ahbar, a prominent Jewish convert to Islam. When he arrived, Omar asked him: 'Where do you think we should put the place of prayer?'"
Al-Ahbar replied: "By the Rock" - that is, the so-called Even Hashetiah/Rock of the Foundation, believed to mark the site of the altar Patriarch Abraham built on which to sacrifice his son Isaac, later the site of the Temples Holy of Holies, and eventually the site of the Arab-Moslem Dome of the Rock, which is erroneously called Mosque of Omar.
Omar said to Al-Ahbar: "By God, you are still following Judaism! I saw you take off your sandals [in accordance with Jewish practice and later Moslem practice at this site]... But we were not commanded concerning the Rock, but we were commanded concerning the Kaaba."’

Lewis says it was probably considered wrong to pray towards Jerusalem in the early days of Islam, as this was the Jewish custom, and they didn’t want the Jewish converts to Islam to keep their old ways of Judaism. They wanted to firmly establish the difference of Judaism and Islam, and that meant separating the Judaism holiness of Jerusalem from Islam.


A Koranic passage which indicates that Jerusalem might not be so holy to Muslims, and is passed on to the Jews is in "(Koran, Sura 2:145, "The Cow")
"...They would not follow thy direction of prayer (qiblah), nor art thou to follow their direction of prayer; nor indeed will they follow each other's direction of prayer..." (2)
Commentators explain that "thy qiblah" (direction of prayer for Muslims) clearly refers the Ka'bah of Mecca, while "their qiblah" (direction of prayer for Jews) refers to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
This Koranic passage appears to show that the holiness of Jerusalem a Jewish concept, and should not be confused with an Islamic concept.
The 13th-century Arab biographer and geographer Yakut noted:
"Mecca is holy to Muslims, and Jerusalem to the Jews."


The argument that although Jerusalem was important, but then lost its importance is turned aside by some Muslims. They argue that although the direction of prayer changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, it in no way diminished the importance of Jerusalem in Islam. In his article The Islamic Perspective of Jerusalem Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi President, Islamic Society of North America (A talk presented at the first meeting of American Muslims for Jerusalem in Washington, DC on April 17, 1999) says that Mecca was originally intended to be the direction of the qiblah, and Jerusalem was merely the temporary direction used because when Muhammad originally started preaching, there was a lot of paganism associated with Mecca, and Muhammad didn’t want his people to associate praying towards Mecca with paganism. Once Muhammad felt that monotheism was firmly established in the minds of his followers, he could change the direction of prayer from its temporary spot of Jerusalem to its intended spot of Mecca. Jerusalem was always intended to be a temporary destination of prayer, because it was holy enough to suffice as a temporary prayer direction.


In addition to this, most of those who believe that the night vision of Muhammad refers to Jerusalem believe that this forever assured the importance of Jerusalem in Islam, because it shows Muhammad’s direct connection with g-d in Islam. In the same way Judaism views Moses as being particularly sacred because he personally went up at Sinai to speak with g-d, and Christianity holds Jesus particularly sacred because he is personally the son of g-d, Islam considers Muhammad to be particularly sacred because it is in his ascension to heaven that he made his direct contact with divinity.


The history of the importance of Jerusalem seems to be equally confusing. A common argument made by those who feel that Jerusalem is not so important to Islam is that Muslims only care about Jerusalem in times of crisis, or when it serves them politically.
The New York Post journalist and Middle East expert Daniel Pipes cites the following examples of the role of Jerusalem and its mainly lack importance to Muslims and Arabia throughout the centuries:
“-The Crusader conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 evinced little Moslem reaction at first. Then, as a Moslem counter-crusade developed, so did a whole literature extolling the virtues of Jerusalem. As a result, at about this time Jerusalem came to be seen as Islam's third most holy city.
Then, safely back in Moslem hands in 1187, the city lapsed into its usual obscurity. The population declined, even the defensive walls fell.”
He then goes on to examine more recent events, and in particular, says about the British conquest:
“Only when British troops reached Jerusalem in 1917, did Moslems reawaken to the city's importance. Palestinian leaders made Jerusalem a centerpiece of their campaign against Zionism.
…When the Jordanians won the old city in 1948, Moslems predictably lost interest again in Jerusalem. It reverted to a provincial backwater, deliberately degraded by the Jordanians in favor of Amman, their capital.
…The Israeli conquest. When Israel captured the city in June 1967, Moslem interest in Jerusalem again surged. The 1968 PLO covenant mentioned Jerusalem by name. Revolutionary Iran created a Jerusalem Day and placed the city on bank notes. Money flooded into the city to build it up.”

victot
02-26-2002, 01:42 PM
hey, i feel lame tooting my own horn, but i wrote that...
had to cut out a lot, there is a maximum of words allowed per post...
i left out most of the arab/islam sources talking about how it was important throughout the ages...
though i gotta say, from writing this essay, i can't say that i think jerusalem is all that important to isalm... it does not compare at all to its importance in judaism...

McSceptic
02-27-2002, 06:42 AM
Interesting stuff, and I think you make your case.

It's very common for new religions to build their temples on the important sites of the old religions. The oldest Christian churches in Europe are often on pagan sites, and I'm told the temple mount was an important pagan site before the Israelites started using it.

The Muslims seem to have followed the same practice and stuck their mosque on top simply to show who was boss.

NewsGuy
02-27-2002, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by victot
though i gotta say, from writing this essay, i can't say that i think jerusalem is all that important to isalm... it does not compare at all to its importance in judaism...

Great piece, victot.

In the end, it's probably not so much of a religious goal of the Palestinians, but a political excuse to mass murder Israelis that the rest of the world is willing to buy.

McSceptic
02-27-2002, 11:45 PM
You gotta love the flying horse.

NewsGuy
02-28-2002, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by McSceptic
You gotta love the flying horse.

Gets more miles per gallon than a Cadillac.

But I'd sure hate to be one of the Arabs casually walking along on a sunny day right underneath the flying horse. You think birds are bad... I'd hate to see what a flying horse could produce.

:eek:

dilipcynthia
06-04-2005, 01:48 PM
jerusalem is equally important to jews and christians.. not so to muslims... it is not the major places in their koran :)

Toga
06-04-2005, 04:46 PM
jerusalem is equally important to jews and christians.. not so to muslims... it is not the major places in their koran :)

Jerusalem is only important to Christians because they latched on Judaism.

Robby
06-06-2005, 04:18 PM
Jerusalem is only important to Christians because they latched on Judaism.

In part it is because of the Jewish roots, but Jerusalem is mostly dear to Christians because of Jesus Christ. Perhaps the best illustration of this at the end of the book of Revelation.

Mediocrates
06-06-2005, 04:24 PM
It is not relevant or meaningful what is important to this faith or that. Jerusalem is the capital of the nation of Israel. End of story. A major sections of the Torah take place in Iraq, Egypt and Syria. Yes many of those places are important to us too. No matter you don't here people screaming for a Jewish Damascus or a Jewish Memphis or a Jewish Baghdad.

Sinbad
04-18-2006, 10:29 PM
I don't think that Jerusalem should bear much importance for the Jews.Perhaps the Khazar country where the Jews had a prosperous kingdom about one thousand yrs ago should have more significance to the Jews than Jerusalem.

Toga
04-18-2006, 10:39 PM
In part it is because of the Jewish roots, but Jerusalem is mostly dear to Christians because of Jesus Christ. Perhaps the best illustration of this at the end of the book of Revelation.

Jewish roots? Sure, they latched on Judaism via a Jew.

Toga
04-18-2006, 10:40 PM
I don't think that Jerusalem should bear much importance for the Jews.Perhaps the Khazar country where the Jews had a prosperous kingdom about one thousand yrs ago should have more significance to the Jews than Jerusalem.

Another garbage/anti-Semitic trash. They keep coming in here. Who breeds that scum?

Sinbad
04-18-2006, 10:49 PM
It's always hard to hear the truth! Always that "Myth" of "Anti-Semitism".Until when this game?
Seriously...if the Jews had a kingdom in Palestine some 3000yrs ago, does it make any sense to reclaim that land again in our times? If so,why didn't modern Greece or Italy reclaim the land of Palestine,after all, they both had ruled the area some 2000-2500 yrs ago!

Womble
04-19-2006, 02:54 AM
I don't think that Jerusalem should bear much importance for the Jews.
It so happens that Jerusalem bore the greatest significance for Jews for some 3000 years. It also so happens that we Jews aren't asking for your advice about what we should or should not regard as important.


Perhaps the Khazar country where the Jews had a prosperous kingdom about one thousand yrs ago should have more significance to the Jews than Jerusalem.
Why would it? Khazars weren't Jews, and Central Asia is not the land where we came from, nor is it the land God promised to us.

Womble
04-19-2006, 02:58 AM
It's always hard to hear the truth! Always that "Myth" of "Anti-Semitism".Until when this game?
Until the anti-Semitism stops, I suppose.


Seriously...if the Jews had a kingdom in Palestine some 3000yrs ago, does it make any sense to reclaim that land again in our times?
Yes. It's our homeland, and it belongs to us. And every single person out there who is honest with themselves knows that it belongs to us. Every Christian who reads his books, every Muslim who reads the Qur'an rather than listens to the hate-filled mosque preaching, every atheist with a decent history book on his bookshelf knows it.


If so,why didn't modern Greece or Italy reclaim the land of Palestine,after all, they both had ruled the area some 2000-2500 yrs ago!
They ruled it, but it was never their homeland. They never wanted it enough to think of reclaiming it.

ygalg1
04-19-2006, 03:56 AM
the buraq figure, I wonder why no Christian or a Jew or anyone could have witness such phenomenon and report about it, especially where Muhammad makes acquaintance with all the famous Jewish and Christian "prophets"

a dream constitute a ownership over property :confused:

I had a dream, I take my visit at izrieli mall. well later I have made a visit to izrieli mall for real. now I have two valid dispensations to reclaim it :D (something to ponder about :rolleyes: )

Mediocrates
04-19-2006, 04:31 AM
Ancient history is irrelevant. Israel is a country today and no amount of historical deinventing will amount to anything. After all one could say more or less the same silly thing about Mecca or Baghdad or Cairo. Islam is a newcomer and can't simply say 'we are here now and unto forever' and then turn around and kill everyone else 'because you haven't been here long enough.' It's nonsense.

Jewscout
04-19-2006, 04:37 AM
It's always hard to hear the truth! Always that "Myth" of "Anti-Semitism".Until when this game?
Seriously...if the Jews had a kingdom in Palestine some 3000yrs ago, does it make any sense to reclaim that land again in our times? If so,why didn't modern Greece or Italy reclaim the land of Palestine,after all, they both had ruled the area some 2000-2500 yrs ago!

the Land of Israel and Jerusalem holds a central place in Jewish religion, culture, and history. Jews have always lived in that land, even if the community is small, and you can find archeological evidence of their presense there.

Through blood, sweat, and tears the Jews have earned a right to this State, and no country or power has the right to tell them otherwise.

Mediocrates
04-19-2006, 04:42 AM
Then ask him why he clings so tenaciously to Jerusalem then if all that matters is who owned it 'first?' Seems to me we should resurrect the Moabites or Amorites since they clearly were there before anyone else.

CoinToss
04-19-2006, 11:02 AM
I don't think that Jerusalem should bear much importance for the Jews.Perhaps the Khazar country where the Jews had a prosperous kingdom about one thousand yrs ago should have more significance to the Jews than Jerusalem.Read the Bible ! Jerusalem is present just everywhere !
On the other hand it's ask to muslim believer to turn toward Mecca.
Jerusalem is holly to Muslims only when they can deprive the Jews from it. Because, in the same way that truth menace lies, the Jews menace the Islam. And that make them mad ! :D

Jewscout
04-19-2006, 11:13 AM
Whose Jerusalem? (http://www.danielpipes.org/article/84)

CoinToss
04-19-2006, 11:15 AM
Did you know that the Shaitan farts while the muezzin calls for prier ?
Did you know that a muslim must wipe his a[s]s with an odd number of stones ?

All that in Bukhari only ! (the reference book in matter of Life of the Prophet)

http://ahmed-mohammed.mindswap.net/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=13&TID=64&SID=18895

The piss be on him !

Mediocrates
04-19-2006, 11:46 AM
Did you know that


That's really unwarranted because we all have stated rules for ritual and personal hygiene, yes?

nbarzelay
04-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Jerusalem in Islam is a farce. Israel is just seen as Islamic land, and according to Islam it's a mortal sin to give up land to dhimmis.

Personally, I think Zionism has failed in this regard ('ol Theodore's version of it) since it didn't take into regard the migrant workers (soon to call themselves Palestinians in the 1950's-60's) flooding in from surrounding Arab nations to find work on kibbutzim and the like. There are a few neighboring towns along the Israeli-Lebanese/-Syrian/Transjordanian border who saw a de-population of upwards to 80%.

There should've been an exchange of Jews for Arabs/Muslims when Jews from N. Africa and the ME region fleeing from the pogroms. Also Nazereth and Hebron should've been absorbed since they were inhabited by 3/4 Arab Christians and Jews.

Too bad. Could've solved many a problems.

CoinToss
04-19-2006, 01:35 PM
I totally agree with that.

Unfortunatly, the West is lying all along the year with:
"Jerusalem, 3rd holy place for muslim"
"the palestinians people... blablabla", there is no palestinians there is just common arabs.
The same arabs who oppress the Berbers, the Kurds, the Jews, the Copts, and more minorities I could not name.
The same arabs, which invaded 12 millions square kilometers and now attacking Europe and Canada.
The same arabs who refuse their minorities to talk their mother tongues.

The arabization is the cause of most of the suffering in middle east. All that financed with money from oil. We should kick them off back to the arab peninsula and the western treators with them !

nbarzelay
04-19-2006, 01:41 PM
On Canada, moved from Nova Scotia after my studies not too long ago. On campus I saw Arabs/Muslims parade around wearing Hamas shawls with impunity. I brought this up with some of the deans and nothing was done.

Also, did you hear about Sharia law almost passing in Ottawa not longer than a month or two ago?! Isn't that crazy? Soon enough Canadian women who are married into Islam can be buried neck deep and stoned to death on Canadian soil all in the name of justice!

CoinToss
04-19-2006, 01:49 PM
I think the muslim law can apply only for marriage and that kind of things.
The muslim laws does not overcome the canadian laws.
On the other hand, the active invasion of western countries by arabs, pakis and turks is quite concerning.
The situation is screwing up here in France. I really don't know what solution we have since the government itself is unable to propose any.

SteveMetch
04-19-2006, 03:19 PM
Until the anti-Semitism stops, I suppose.

Yes. It's our homeland, and it belongs to us. And every single person out there who is honest with themselves knows that it belongs to us. Every Christian who reads his books, every Muslim who reads the Qur'an rather than listens to the hate-filled mosque preaching, every atheist with a decent history book on his bookshelf knows it.

They ruled it, but it was never their homeland. They never wanted it enough to think of reclaiming it.

Agreed, what do you think is the support level in Israel for removing/relocating the Pagan Moon God Temple and re-building the Jewish Temple were it belongs?