Who is the enemy?

[localbrew]

Deciding who the enemy is in this war may depend on ones political or even religious views. Looking at the Muslim media I would have to say the US/UK are the enemy. Why don’t the Kurds or Kuwaiti’s see it that way?

Reading the French press one has to wonder who’s side they are on. Now Chirac is against releasing any UN administered oil for food money for humanitarian relief in Iraq unless the UN administers Iraq. The French now admit there own hypocrisy. To the French it is not a matter of humanity, or money or to be more specific, contracts. If they couldn’t keep what they had on the front end they want it after the fact. The same goes for Germany and Russia.

I can excuse the Arab/Muslim street to a point because there media is state controlled and extremely biased. I can’t excuse the Arab/Muslim governments however. But what really gets my red American blood boiling are people in France and Germany who place more importance on the Euro$ than morality, compassion or even personal safety. When the proof is shown to all the world of Iraq’s WMD not only will France, Germany and Russia be disgraced, the UN will be about finished.

Now we must fight the axis of evil and the growing axis of weasels.

[mimil]

Originally posted by localbrew

I can excuse the Arab/Muslim street to a point because there media is state controlled and extremely biased. I can’t excuse the Arab/Muslim governments however. But what really gets my red American blood boiling are people in France and Germany who place more importance on the Euro$ than morality, compassion or even personal safety. When the proof is shown to all the world of Iraq’s WMD not only will France, Germany and Russia be disgraced, the UN will be about finished.

Now we must fight the axis of evil and the growing axis of weasels.

Wait, I am confused here. The debate in the UN, if I remember well what was happening, was not exactly about whether Iraq had the weapon or not. I mean if it was so obvious that they did not have any, why would there be any inspections?
We have to read in between the line as it was so often mentioned in other debates.

The debate was to how can we find what the regime is still hiding, and how can we enforce the respect of international laws. USA decided that they had enough of this diplomacy talks, partly because the French are a pain to deal with and partly because they hoped that the UN was going to back the long prepared attack of the Iraqi regime.

Just to mention, I have heard here that the inspections were not giving real good results, I had the feeling things were moving, no American nor English young men were killed, no Iraqi were killed (at least not from wertern hands), the middle east was a lot more quiet than it is today.

Now you tell me that you are sick with the position of Europe. The first contract for the reconstruction of Iraq was given to a company where Mr. vice president Dick Cheney has some interest. Other contracts have been given to companies that subsidized the republican presidency campaign to a reasonable extend. But you are right, Europe gives more importance to "Euro$ than morality". What about US?

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by mimil
Now you tell me that you are sick with the position of Europe. The first contract for the reconstruction of Iraq was given to a company where Mr. vice president Dick Cheney has some interest. Other contracts have been given to companies that subsidized the republican presidency campaign to a reasonable extend. But you are right Europe place more importance in "Euro$ than morality". What about US?
If you wish to make accusations, provide proof. Otherwise you are little more than a rabble rouser.

[mimil]

Originally posted by MichaelC
If you wish to make accusations, provide proof. Otherwise you are little more than a rabble rouser.

http://afr.com/iraq/2003/03/26/FFXTE5T4QDD.html

http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc1229.html

I just found those with a quick search, there is probably some more relevant info somewhere.

I read this in some respectable western newspaper yesterday.

You will not be able to deny what is happening, it is a fact that occurs in any country. The difference is that for the US the playground is the world, eventually the public opinion doesn’t like it so much.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by mimil
http://afr.com/iraq/2003/03/26/FFXTE5T4QDD.html

http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc1229.html

I just found those with a quick search, there is probably some more relevant info somewhere.

I read this in some respectable western newspaper yesterday.

You will not be able to deny what is happening, it is a fact that occurs in any country. The difference is that for the US the playground is the world, eventually the public opinion doesn’t like it so much.
In your original and, at the time, unattributed statement, you said,

The first contract for the reconstruction of Iraq was given to a company where Mr. vice president Dick Cheney has some interest.

Bringing up your first link, I quickly came upon this phrasing of your inference,

a firm once run by US Vice President Dick Cheney, without any bidding

Mr. Cheney’s current interest is not indicated in the article. Your own statement changes the "tense" of Cheney’s alleged “interest” with the company in question.

Your second link was so agenda ridden that I must dismiss it. With prejudice.

I was unable to determine what you were referring to when you said,

I read this in some respectable western newspaper yesterday.

What was it that you read "somewhere"?

[localbrew]

The USA and a handful of other free and democratic countries can clam and profess their leaders do not amass wealth while in office. Just look at the wealth the scum bag Yasser Arafat has amassed. Every single dictator on this planet has managed to be wealthy beyond all of our wildest dreams. Dictators take, they do not give.

Leaders like George Bush and Tony Blair get a fixed salary. They do not have carte blanc to rape the wealth of a country. That task is left to the dictators of this world.

[andak01]

Originally posted by localbrew
Leaders like George Bush and Tony Blair get a fixed salary. They do not have carte blanc to rape the wealth of a country. That task is left to the dictators of this world.

At least not carte blanche to rape the wealth of their OWN countries. The dictators are forced to rape their own people's wealth because they don't have the power to be imperialists. There is little good to be said for either path. And at this point we have nothing else but the coalition of the wannabes and the bloodthirsty wholehearted supporters of world terrorism like France and Germany and Spain. Phewy Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite!! Unless the Fraternity is Skull and Bones.

[Jen]

If the US and Britian are willing to put out hundreds of billions of dollars to free the Iraqi people, who are you, or anyone else to say that the US and Britain shouldn't get some contracts? I didn't see your country footing any of this bill. Nor do I see many other nations helping in a financial way.

[andak01]

Contracts! I'll go work in Iraq in a minute. I've been practically without work, since I don't work in the military sector, for over a year. We lost 300,000 jobs last month in America. But, my family will be fine, thanks to our super Bush sponsored tax refund. Yippee! Another four years of Bush and we'll all be working in munitions factories, and loving it! How to stop worrying and bomb the world.

[minusthejihad]

Andak, you should watch Dr. Strangelove! Either that or take a Xanax guy, you're trippin.

[Johnny Yuma]

Originally posted by localbrew
Leaders like George Bush and Tony Blair get a fixed salary. They do not have carte blanc to rape the wealth of a country. That task is left to the dictators of this world.

... and Congress. ;)

[Johnny Yuma]

Originally posted by andak01
Contracts! I'll go work in Iraq in a minute. I've been practically without work, since I don't work in the military sector, for over a year. We lost 300,000 jobs last month in America. But, my family will be fine, thanks to our super Bush sponsored tax refund. Yippee! Another four years of Bush and we'll all be working in munitions factories, and loving it!

I suppose it's all a matter of how you look at your vocation: Is it your life, or your livelihood?

If you define yourself and your life by your job title, imagine the disappointment you will feel when you go from being an executive, to flipping burgers. On the other hand, if by working you are simply trying to make money so you can have a life, it doesn't matter what you do and you can't be nearly as easily disappointed.

How to stop worrying and bomb the world.

Okay, Dr. Strangelove..

[Johnny Yuma]

Originally posted by mimil
Wait, I am confused here. The debate in the UN, if I remember well what was happening, was not exactly about whether Iraq had the weapon or not. I mean if it was so obvious that they did not have any, why would there be any inspections?
We have to read in between the line as it was so often mentioned in other debates.

The debate was to how can we find what the regime is still hiding, and how can we enforce the respect of international laws. USA decided that they had enough of this diplomacy talks, partly because the French are a pain to deal with and partly because they hoped that the UN was going to back the long prepared attack of the Iraqi regime.

Just to mention, I have heard here that the inspections were not giving real good results, I had the feeling things were moving, no American nor English young men were killed, no Iraqi were killed (at least not from wertern hands), the middle east was a lot more quiet than it is today.

Now you tell me that you are sick with the position of Europe. The first contract for the reconstruction of Iraq was given to a company where Mr. vice president Dick Cheney has some interest. Other contracts have been given to companies that subsidized the republican presidency campaign to a reasonable extend. But you are right, Europe gives more importance to "Euro$ than morality". What about US?

Are you blonde?

[Jen]

Who is the enemy, you ask?

This is the enemy:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/Iraq926.htm

This is a very long article, but it is DEFINITELY worth reading.

[cerulean]

Originally posted by andak01
Contracts! I'll go work in Iraq in a minute. I've been practically without work, since I don't work in the military sector, for over a year. We lost 300,000 jobs last month in America. But, my family will be fine, thanks to our super Bush sponsored tax refund. Yippee! Another four years of Bush and we'll all be working in munitions factories, and loving it! How to stop worrying and bomb the world.

I'm sorry for your sake, and your family's sake, that you've been unemployed for some time. I hope things pick up soon, for you and lots of other people.

In all seriousness, there are some contracts available for people willing to travel to the Middle East -- I've known some people who worked in the United Arab Emirates. But be sure to watch out for gotcha-type contracts.

Personally, I once had a possible chance of doing some work for a firm that was doing a project for the Saudi government. (No need to travel there.) On the one hand - possible money. On the other hand - working for a reprehensible regime. I didn't need the money, so I just never responded. Maybe I was wrong - after all, if they paid me, they'd have a tiny, tiny bit less for sponsoring terrorism.

One thing I don't expect the war to do is improve the economy significantly, or at all. In fact, I'm not sure at all what will improve the economy. There's such a high level of consumer and corporate debt, and so much stock over-valuation (still, imo) that I think it will take a while.

So anyway, keep looking! People are finding jobs every day - you could well be the next one.

[minusthejihad]

I agree, the tech market has showed signs of improvement. Several people I know, including myself had been out of work for over a year sending out resumes everyday without any responses. Lately, I've been getting calls and my friends have found jobs. Economic cycles are like that, you can't really blame everything on war.

[Johnny Yuma]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
I agree, the tech market has showed signs of improvement. Several people I know, including myself had been out of work for over a year sending out resumes everyday without any responses. Lately, I've been getting calls and my friends have found jobs. Economic cycles are like that, you can't really blame everything on war.


How many of us remember how hard it was under Jimmy Carter? What a loser he was.....