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abu afak
03-27-2003, 10:34 AM
There Will Never be a Palestinian Democracy
Facing reality.

By Barbara Lerner


Israel's Natan Sharansky is one of the intellectual godfathers of President Bush's new "democracy first" approach to the Palestinian question. Sharansky's influence is hard to miss. His influence on the views of his countrymen is another matter. Twenty-nine months of suicide bombings, shellings, and machine-gun attacks aimed at civilians have decimated the ranks of Israelis who still believe a Palestinian state could ever be anything other than the same old terror-warriors, with new and more lethal powers. When I interviewed Sharansky in Jerusalem on February 12, his political party had just lost two of its four seats in Israel's 120-member parliament, but his faith that democracy was the answer remained unshaken.

Natan Sharansky has a big Russian soul...... He believes the principles he and his fellow Soviet freedom fighters went to prison for are universal principles — as real and right in the Middle East as they were and are in what was once the Soviet Union. He also believes that in the terror war, as in the Cold War, appeasing tyrants can never bring lasting peace — only the spread of democracy can. And he believes, too, that democracy is for everyone, that neither Arabs nor Palestinians are exceptions to the rule.

I offer up the Israeli everyman's objection at the outset: Polls show that 80 percent of Palestinians approve of suicide bombings. Anyone they elect will be a murdering thug. "Of course," Sharansky explodes. "It's primitive to think democracy is about elections. It's not. It's about freedom. Freedom is the key." First, he explains, you have to free people from the all-pervasive fear that is the sine qua non of all tyrannies. Give people the freedom to express themselves, to say what they really think, over time — without the fear that government goons will come and get them. That's the start of the democratization process. Elections are at the other end. They come last, after people have experienced what it's like to live free, because that — not elections — is what democracy is about. Once people know freedom, Sharansky argues, they vote to keep it. And because rulers in a democracy can't ignore what majorities vote for if they want to stay in office, they have powerful incentives to respect freedom at home and to pursue peace abroad. For tyrants, the situation is quite different. Freedom is their nemesis, and to negate it they need to demonize enemies, both at home and abroad — justifications for their brutal, suffocating control.

It's a lovely theory — majestic in its universal reach, seductive in its sunny, egalitarian assumptions about human nature and culture. And, Sharansky insists, there is powerful, real-world evidence for it. Look at Russia and all the other countries that were once slave states of the Soviet Union, all more or less free and democratic now. The transformations in Germany and Japan are even more striking. "A thousand years of Russian serfdom wasn't ideal preparation for democracy," Sharansky notes dryly. Nazi Germany and imperial Japan, too, were both democratized, and have remained democracies for half a century now.

He's right, of course, but from the American point of view, there's a major difference between the Soviet Union on the one hand, and Germany and Japan on the other....""

Surely, I asked Sharansky, you don't think Palestinian suicide bombers and the population that worships them are like the Russians, Czechs, and Poles, able and eager to free themselves with only a little help from us? Surely you see that for these Arabs, as for the Germans and Japanese, nothing less than a full-scale, long-term military occupation with a rigorous, all-embracing reeducation program has a chance? Sharansky is no pie-in-the-sky, peace-now wimp. He doesn't flinch or dodge. "Yes," he said calmly, "that's what must be done." Incredulous, I asked, "And you think the world will stand back and let Israel do that?" "No," he replied. "Of course not. Only America can do that....."


"...But it's unrealistic, I think, to expect anything like democracy in the southern half of the Middle East any time soon — and a dangerous illusion to expect a Palestinian democracy ever. Look, first, at Egypt, the population giant of the south. Most Egyptians still see Nasser — a megalomaniacal thug, much like Saddam Hussein — as a hero. Most still blame the same scapegoats Nasser blamed for Egypt's poverty, backwardness, and oppression: America and Israel. Egypt's current dictator, Hosni Mubarak, pretends to be our ally, but his government-controlled media is still pumping out the same old lies and excuses, still demonizing us, still pretending that Egypt's half-century of stagnation is our fault, still goading his people to channel their blind rage at us and at Israel. And what is true for Egypt is true for other southern Arab states as well.

We can't occupy them all, of course. Still, the situation isn't hopeless, because most Arab states have one important positive thing in common with Germany and Japan. In each case, when you strip away the misdirected rage, the false claims that external enemies are responsible for their failures, there is still something left — something beyond hatred and lies on which to build a non-predatory national identity. There was a Germany before Nazism — a country and people with its own unique language and culture, a culture that produced Bach and Goethe, as well as Hitler. There was an Egypt, too, long before Nasser and Mubarak — an Egypt with great periods in its past, as well as appalling ones, and this is true of most other nations of the Middle East. True, too, of many ancient peoples in the region who have been denied nationhood for centuries — the Kurds, for example, and the Berbers.

It's not true of "Palestinians." They have no past to hearken back to. No past glories, no nation or people, no unique language or history or culture. And no wonder: Until the 1960s, they didn't exist. They are as much a product of the Sixties as slogans like "Make love, not war" or inventions like the kindly, democratic Uncle "Ho-Ho-Ho Chi Minh." Before the Sixties — when Arabs from what is now Jordan, Egypt, and Syria moved west of the Jordan River to take advantage of new economic opportunities opened up by the returning Jews — they took their nationality from their countries of origin, or from whichever Arab country claimed sovereignty over the land at the time. They were mostly Jordanians, but all three Arab states claimed the land, and each ruled it, or parts of it, at different times. Intra-Arab rivalries notwithstanding, all Arab nations — the whole Arab world, 200 million strong — agreed from the start that the Jews would never get to keep any part of ancient Israel, that everything from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea was Arab land, and that Arabs would take back every inch of it. This played well to Arab audiences, but it made for ineffective public relations with the outside world. "Help 200 million Arabs drive a handful of Jews into the sea" was not a winning slogan in most parts of the world. And as the Israeli handful defeated the attacking Arab millions in war after war, it became a liability the united Arab rejectionist front could no longer afford.

Unable to win militarily, they resolved to attack diplomatically instead, with a relentless new propaganda war. Job One was to obscure the fact that the same old Arab Goliath was still bent on destroying the Israeli David. To do that, it needed an Arab rejectionist front in miniature — a few million dedicated Arab warriors to present a saleable image to the world, an ersatz victim image to compete with the all-too-real victim image of the Jews. And so they invented a new Arab people, "the Palestinians," whose entire raison d'etre is hatred of the Jews, based on a false claim that "their" land has been stolen from them by greedy, foreign Jewish oppressors. This new national identity gave the re-named Arabs an instant claim to a separate new state of their own, and it gave every Arab dictator a cruel new cause to champion — a new and more effective way of redirecting the popular rage at real oppression at home into rage against manufactured oppression abroad. To give that rage a permanent base, all the Arab states together made pariahs of the so-called Palestinians — popular pariahs, but pariahs nonetheless. The Palestinians were unwelcome in every Arab state but Jordan, where they form the majority — and even there, the door is shut to further immigration. Consider: A million Jews who had lived in the Middle East since time immemorial were forced out of Arab lands and into Israel, but the Arabs in Israel were locked in, goaded with a constant stream of propaganda, supplied with clandestine weapons, and given large sums of money for murdering Jews.

These Arabs will never be at peace, will never know the blessings of democracy so long as they are encouraged to cling to a false and hateful identity as "Palestinians." They are not a separate people; they are part of the Arab nation and, with few exceptions, they need to be absorbed back into it. Until they are, there will never be peace in Israel or real and lasting progress toward democracy in the southern Arab states. The biggest mistake America can make would be to keep this evil identity alive by giving it a U.S.-sponsored mini-state. The ancient land of Israel has already been divided between Arabs and Jews, into Jordan and Israel. It cannot be divided again to create another viable state.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-lerner032703.asp
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cerulean
03-27-2003, 10:53 AM
I'd hate to say never, even if Palestinian democracy appears unlikely right now. People can change.

Russian democracy is not going very well, as I posted about on this thread:
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&postid=46009#post46009

Just saying "democracy" doesn't address the issue of what to do if the majority of people in a country want to kill another population. Should that be allowed as a democratic decision? Eliminating the US and Israel appears to have widespread Arab support, and might well win if a plebiscite were held throughout the Arab world.

Mediocrates
03-27-2003, 11:36 AM
But the history of the region doesn't bare it out. I know it's unpopular to say such and such are incapable of reasonable self rule but it's true. It took the Raj nearly 200 years to sort itself out into a colonial realm that ran well and even then, the uprising in 1857 showed that animosities are always just below the surface waiting to explode.

The fact is in that part of the middle east none of the countries has any track record ever with governance that anyone would recognize as anything but tyrannical oppressive anarchic radicalism peppered with personality cults, purges and Reigns of Terror. There has not been a single state that has transferred power without genetic lineage or by coup and assassination. Even subsaharan Africa holds more elections.

So let's examine what we have. We want through some process called 'magic' a Japanization of the entirety of Palestinian culture and society because our goal is peace and we believe that their enlightened self interest pursues that. But what we really want is to be left alone in peace and it is not important how that happens. However the Palestinians accomplish whatever transformation they need to do that - the details and honestly, the effects on them are unimportant. Whether they have an ineffective democracy or benign military dictatorship or a King is their matter. As long as it leads to non aggression with Israel the mechanics of how they sort out their country are not anyone else's business.

Some posters here come from benign semi-tyrannies with one party quasi elected presidents for life or something quite like it. And they live in peace with their neighbors for the most part. There are successful countries that all rank reasonably well on the scale of human and civil rights and achievement like Taiwan or Singapore or Romania or Tanzania that manage to muddle through w/o what we would call democracy and they aren't sending missiles and tanks over the border to kill all the people who part their hair differently. So who really cares in the end. We can wring our hands about human salvation and hope that countries in the mid east someday figure out that nearly anything else would be an improvement internally vs. what they have but even our leftists who see fit to bleed for anyone but Israelis or Americans are very honest when they say "Iraq's problems are Iraq's, he's their dictator" point being there really isn't anyone who cares what they do to themselves. Similarly the antiIsraeli movement doesn't care what the PLO does or neglects vis a vis Palestinians. Therefore it's not our job to worry about it either.

It's a wish and a dream that peace can be achieved 2 or 3 steps removed from a long chain of events that lead to democracy for for the Palestinians. The goal is too far removed from the reality now to have any meaning. This is why democracy for the Palestinians is irrelevant. Better for the Israelis to deal with one benign dictator than a mob of cutthroats.

D.Abraham
03-29-2003, 02:04 PM
Hey, do any of you know why I cannot post a "New-Thread"? Have any of you experienced this problem being a new member? When I tried to email the IsrealForum "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page it does not work I tried it from two seperate email addresses of my own... I wanted to ask them why.. :( Any ideas?

Darin

Mediocrates
03-29-2003, 03:01 PM
1 - you need to post a few times before being able to create a new thread. I think the number is pretty low but I forget what it is.

2 - contact 'Newsguy' with a note on the mailer daemon.

wellofvow
03-30-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Mediocrates

So let's examine what we have. We want through some process called 'magic' a Japanization of the entirety of Palestinian culture and society because our goal is peace and we believe that their enlightened self interest pursues that. But what we really want is to be left alone in peace and it is not important how that happens. However the Palestinians accomplish whatever transformation they need to do that - the details and honestly, the effects on them are unimportant. Whether they have an ineffective democracy or benign military dictatorship or a King is their matter. As long as it leads to non aggression with Israel the mechanics of how they sort out their country are not anyone else's business.

It's a wish and a dream that peace can be achieved 2 or 3 steps removed from a long chain of events that lead to democracy for for the Palestinians. The goal is too far removed from the reality now to have any meaning. This is why democracy for the Palestinians is irrelevant. Better for the Israelis to deal with one benign dictator than a mob of cutthroats.

Mediocrates, with all due respect, I see from what you have written that you have missed the point entirely.

The main point is that there is no such "people" as "Palestinians". They have NO culture that is "Palestinian", and no "society" that is "Palestinian". Many thousands of Arabs from neighboring countries fled to the "Palestine" refugee camps after 1948 since life there was better, if that can be imagined, than life from wherever they came from- nobody knows how many these were, since the UN bureacrats running the refugee camps had and have their own agenda.

For a long time, I have put "Palestinians" within quotation marks. As the article says, they did not exist until about the 1960s. The propaganda that "their" land was "stolen" from them is so ridiculous that I do not know how to deal with it except to say the somewhat tired, but true "repeat a lie enough times, and people will believe it."

I know someone who lives in Canada. He was taken there when an infant. He was born in "Palestine", and he wrote me that he still has his passport. His passport lists him as "Palestinian". He is Jewish. There are thousands like him, with passports like his.

In WWII, the British finally oh-so kindly allowed "Palestinians" to volunteer in the British army against the Axis powers. The "Palestine Mule Corps" was formed. It was *all Jewish*. No Arab from the Middle East of today fought in WWII on the side of the Allies. "Palestinians" were Jewish in the context of the British army. Funny how times change in just a flash.... We are not talking about thousands or even hundreds of years ago.

The "Palestinians" are owed exactly nothing. The British divided the "Palestine Mandate" territory once in 1947, just before the Mandate period ran out. They gave the Hashemite Bedouin the country of "Transjordan" which later bacame Jordan. THIS WAS THE LAND THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN "PALESTINE". The British apparently think that they still "own" this territory under the Mandate which ran out 56 years ago, and are pushing hard to divide it yet again into "Jewish and Arab".

The "Palestinians" should be absorbed into the countries of their brothers, all 200 million of them. All the Jewish refugees who were kicked out of nearly all Arab countries after the founding of the Jewish State were absorbed by their brothers, all 600,000 of them at the time.

The "Palestinians" are the victims of the UN and their brother Arabs. What does Israel have to do with them? Since 1948, exactly nothing, zilch. Bottom line, they do not want a "state", they want the whole Middle East Judenrein.

danholo
03-30-2003, 09:59 AM
Well thanks to Israel and the other Arab states Palestinians created a national identity of their own which is not at all less credible then any other and it won't vanish anywhere, sorry to say. Since no Arab nationality ever existed before creation of these states, none of the current Arab states should exist in your point of view but the area should be a nationless hell hole described on the map as "Arab Tribal Lands" with brutal arab tribalism raging across the whole area. Actually that tribalism is still very much present and applies to Israelis themselves too. Although Israeli/Jewish tribalism is very different though. i.e. Israelis would never massacre 20,000 people to instill fear into the public as Assad did in Hama, Syria but it still has some same elements.

Isiah 2:4
03-30-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by danholo
Since no Arab nationality ever existed before creation of these states, none of the current Arab states shouldn't exist in your point of view but the area would be a nationless hell hole with tribalism.

Very good. very good indeed. :D