Roadmap to "the final solution"

[humus_sapiens]

A call to Israel and the United States
(By Stan Goodenough and Jan Willem van der Hoeven)
Jerusalem Newswire

As horrendous a toll as the Oslo Process has taken on Israel’s people and nationhood, an even greater danger lies ahead should its leaders agree to accept the Quartet’s “Road Map for implementation of a permanent solution for two states in the Israel-Palestinian Dispute.”

Israel, beware! Instead of charting a path to peace, the Road Map leads to a death trap that will spell the destruction of your state. Just your agreement to the implementation of this “two-state solution” could only lead to a further, unbearable loss of Jewish life.

The Road Map is the perpetuation of the Oslo Process under a different name, and we urge you not to talk about it, not to wrangle over it, but to resist it with all your might.

A decade ago we balked as the international community hailed the signing of an agreement it said would finally bring peace to the Middle East. We knew what terrible danger it held for your people.

And for 10 years we have witnessed the direct outcome of that ‘agreement with hell and the grave:’ the deaths of over 1,000 Israelis, and the wounding and maiming for life of thousands more.

Oslo critically compromised your state’s security, and drove a wedge of division deep into your nation. Its inevitable collapse triggered a terror campaign of Jewish bloodletting unprecedented in the history of your reborn national home.

From the moment we heard about the Declaration of Principles, we sounded our first warnings. But our cries fell on deaf ears; our concerns were dismissed, and we were labeled enemies of peace.

Although we did try, we know we should have done more to persuade you to leave the Oslo road. Maybe, just maybe, we could have saved some lives.

Yes, we witnessed with you the horrifying debacle resulting from the foolish elevation of a known murderer and terrorist to the level of statesman and peacemaker. And now we see you preparing to do it again, this time by elevating to that level PLO leader Abu Mazen – a Holocaust denier and a man who has never expressed contrition for the decades of terrorism he helped to direct, and who, as recently as last month, publicly condoned the murder of Jewish women and children.

Rather than acknowledging what Oslo graphically exposed as the moral and political bankruptcy of “land-for-peace,” the international community is gearing up to aggressively resume its pursuit of this path under a plan partially proposed by Saudi Arabia. And Israel, it looks as if you are going to let it happen.

You should be alarmed, Israel. You should be greatly alarmed!

Just as with Oslo, the Road Map legitimizes the fraudulent Arab claim to your land and appeases the belligerent party to the conflict, while exacting from you the surrender of the cradle of your nationhood and the security of your strategic depth, with no guarantees that doing so will bring protection and peace to the indefensible scrap of land that is all that will be left of your Jewish state.

Oslo, which created a temporary, interim Arab self-administration, and which you always had the option to reverse, led to the graves of hundreds of your daughters and sons. How much more painful a price will the Road Map demand, setting in stone as it does the foundations on which an irreversible Arab Islamic state will be erected on your God-ordained lands? [...]

We have seen how, especially when you sought to pursue the division of your land, terror struck hardest, stopping you literally in your tracks on this road to disaster.

But despite these bloody realities, your Prime Minister is encouraging efforts to push on in this fateful direction. And you remain virtually mute.

You dare not be put to sleep by those who say, “Arik would never do this.” He is clearly committed to this path, and if he proceeds, he will be responsible, as were prime minister’s Begin and Rabin, for endangering rather than securing your future.

Four times this past year, Mr. Sharon has flouted the message sent to him by his own party and then by the Israeli electorate at large, and worked to ensure that the lawmakers who oppose a Palestinian state are removed from his inner circle. He has told his countrymen he believes this state to be inevitable, and he is calling on you to stand with him in bringing this about.

Perhaps your prime minister feels, like so many of you do, that there is no other way to relieve the continued pressure of the world upon him than to acquiesce to the demand for a Palestinian state.

If so, then we want him and you to know that we, as Christian Zionists, are willing to fight this battle with the chief of the nations, some 71 percent of whose citizens support the war against Arafat’s brother in arms, Saddam Hussein.

Israel, you have already paid a horrifying price for not resolutely stating your claim and right to this land, and for entering into agreements with those who are working to usurp that claim.

For those who were deceived by the lie of the Left that there could be no way to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict except through a negotiated settlement, you have just witnessed the United States establish another way.

We believe the time has come for you to acknowledge and declare that, from the River to the Sea, this is your God-given and God-restored land. You owe this to the memory of all Jews who longed for this land but were never able to see it, and you owe it to all the Israelis who have paid with their lives to live in and defend Eretz Yisrael.

Quartet or no Quartet, we encourage you to follow the righteous example set by the United States, which refused to bow to international pressure regarding Iraq and did what was in America’s best defense and interest. [...]

Earlier we heard the outrageous statements by Secretary of State Colin Powell when he asserted that it is still Israel that has not done enough in its quest for peace, this despite the fact Israel is still prepared to offer the Palestinians a state after all the years of terrible suffering at their hands!

Notwithstanding these signs warning of an eventual Bush betrayal of Israel, we believe that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was gracious to your country when He stiffened the neck of the Security Council and kept the United Nations from sharing with you in the glory of liberating Iraq.

Had the world body given its full support to Operation Iraqi Freedom, the precedent would have been set for the Arab-leaning UN to force Israel to surrender half of its land to implacable enemies.

Thank God, nearly all three of the four Quartet members – Old Europe, the United Nations and Russia – were found wanting when it came to supporting the valiant, US-led efforts to rid this world of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction.

But the danger is not past. Great Britain, which did stand with you and sent its men and women to fight alongside yours in Iraq, is a primary proponent of “Palestine.”

Prime Minister Blair, distressed by the rifts opened in the international community over Iraq, has identified the vigorous implementation of the Road Map as the best remedy for healing this division, and especially for placating the infuriated Arab states.

But America take note! Offering up Israel to placate the oil-rich, terrorist-sponsoring Arab states will be no less an historic injustice and a crime against the people of Israel, than the appeasing of Nazi Germany by offering up Czechoslovakia was a felony against the people of that state. You know what that cowardice cost the world.

When three of your soldiers were killed by a car bomb in Iraq, you tasted just one hundredth of what the people of Israel have had leveled against them in the past two years. Instead of perversely, for reasons of political and or economic expediency, helping the PLO establish another Israel and American-hating terrorist state on Jewish lands, basic decency and fairness demand that you give Israel as free a hand to fight its war against terror as you have had to fight yours, and that you support her in this fight as unconditionally as she has supported you.

America beware. Your nation’s persistent pursuit of the Road Map will take you from blessing Israel to cursing her. The price you will pay may include the end of the era of your prosperity and the removal from you of the glorious mantle of world leadership.

We urge you to recognize the new realities and opportunities that your steadfast determination to go against Iraq has opened up in the world. We would plead with you to seize the historic day that lies before you, and instead of patching up the old, discredited alliances, encourage you to align yourself fully with Israel, and with the rest of the coalition of the willing. If you do, the blessings that will come to your nation will outshine anything that you have ever known.

After September 11 you told the world that it was either with you or against you in your war against terror. Israel is fully with America. Are you, fully, with her?

[Isiah 2:4]

Wow. Heres a thought, and yes, i am trying to be funny. Dont take this in a sincere way.

How about you edit the letter, and replace :

'Israel' with 'palestine'

'Sharon, Rabin' with 'Arafat' etc..

'Jewish with Muslim'

'United States' with 'Arab Nations'

Instead of 'after September 11', put 'rise of neo-conservative american Imperialism.'

Then it would read as a an Arab propaganda letter, instead of a Western one. It'd probably work as well.

:D

[wellofvow]

The evidence is so abundant, supplied by the parties themselves, that the PA is a terrorist entity, and to make it a "state" would be consenting to the formation of a terrorist state.

The Americans and British made the point over and over again that the "Iraqi regime" was bad, but the "Iraqi people" were Saddam's victims, thus "good". (Does Animal Farm come to mind? :D )

OK, that's Iraq. The white hats ("people") and the black hats ("regime") were defined ad nauseum by the American administration and by the Pentagon. Now to the Palestinian Authority.

The PA "regime" has been shown to be corrupt, terrorist, and has not complied with a single item they signed onto in the accursed Oslo Accords. It is ludicrous to call on Arafat to "renounce violence" over and over for 9 years. For a while, he played the poor-little-me victim, that it was out of his hands, but his own Fatah have taken credit for too many civilian deaths for this to have any credibility. Most Americans do not. Certainly no Israelis.

The difference comes in when Straw, Powell, and others defy reality to contend that the "Palestinian people" are the equivalent of the "Iraqi people".

The Palestinians were NOT supportive of the "Iraqi people", they supported SADDAM, the icon of the "Iraqi regime", which, remember?, WAS BAD. The "Palestinian people" wanted their hero Saddam to CONTINUE torturing and murdering his own people. They do not give a fig about the Iraqis, but they adored Saddam, who gave them huge prizes for murdering Israelis. Straw and other pro-Arabists try to sell the lala concept that ISRAEL is the root of all bad. Well, it is, as long as you do not believe that Israel has the right to exist, and that Jews are human beings with the same human rights as every other person.

Have people forgotten so quickly what happened in 1991? There were about 250,000 Palestinian "foreign workers" in Kuwait. Iraq attacked Kuwait. The "Israeli Palestinians" cheered wildly on their rooftops every time Saddam got a Scud missile through to Israel. Sooooo, the Kuwaitis expelled virtually ALL Palestinians after the 1991 war.

It does not take a mathematician or specialist in logic to figure this out. Both the PA regime AND the PA people are BAD. They supported Saddam, they support homocide bombers, and the murder of civilians. Both regime and people are supporting terror. Why give them a state after destroying a terrorist regime in another state at such great cost? It is just not logical.

Politics and appeasing your allies should not factor into this. Blair has sold out to Straw who long ago was bought by the Arabs.

[andak01]

I'm all for it. Roll the American Tanks into Palestine and declare it a free democracy. Then roll out and ignore it, like we are doing in Afghanistan. Works for me. What? You have a problem with that? Everyone seems to like that solution for Syria, why not Palestine?

[yoyo]

Posted a question but I found what I was looking for...

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by andak01
I'm all for it. Roll the American Tanks into Palestine and declare it a free democracy. Then roll out and ignore it, like we are doing in Afghanistan. Works for me. What? You have a problem with that? Everyone seems to like that solution for Syria, why not Palestine?

I'll be much simpler if Israel would be allowed to kick Arafat gang togather with all the other nasties out. Then there will be peace and security for both people, Israelis and Arabs.

There is no need for Ameican tanks, Israeli tanks and tank crews are far superior then what ever the american might have. Besides, had the Americans were standing instead of the IDF, in Arab town... there would be no "Arab towns" within three hours... just a huge flat parking lot instead, following the first sniper-hiding-behind-children incedent.

In the short run, I believe that the new ragime in Iraq should give full citizenship to every Arab from Israel. Some of those Arabs are well trained and well educated, (probably the best educated Arab in the ME). and giving them a safe heaven, away from all the warfare and the terror of Arafat gangs, this is the humanitarian thing to do. For both the "Palestinian" Arabs and the Iraqis Arabs.

[yoyo]

A Train In Poland (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/print.php3?what=article&id=1303)
by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz
August 27, 2002


My grandfather, of blessed memory, was an underground fighter—a partisan—in Nazi-occupied Poland during World War II. One of the main objectives of the partisans was the destruction of eastbound train tracks in order to prevent the transport of German troops to the Russian front and of Jews to their internment and ultimate death in Nazi concentration camps.

On one occasion, my grandfather told me, his unit of partisan fighters blew up a railroad bridge and waited in ambush. When the train eventually approached and was forced to stop in order to avoid plummeting into the canyon depths, the partisans charged aboard and killed all of the Nazi troops who were manning the cars. Afterwards, the partisans opened a passenger car from which they had heard the sound of people talking excitedly and crying. Inside was a group of Jews dressed in their finest clothes and grasping suitcases filled with their possessions—as if they were on their way to a long vacation. The Jews on board were shocked and apprehensive about the strange-looking people from the woods who had attacked their train and killed all of the Nazi soldiers, initially refusing to believe that their liberators were Jewish themselves.

After some discussion, it became clear that the Jews in the railroad car were from occupied Belgium. The partisans described what awaited them in the Nazi concentration camps, but the Belgian Jews refused to believe their ears. They protested to the wild Jews from the forest that it was utterly impossible that the train was taking them to their deaths. “After all, the Germans told us that this was an evacuation to the East for military purposes,” they insisted, with a glance at the dark, foreboding Polish woods, “and who would believe that the cosmopolitan Germans would plan such a thing as you are telling us? In fact, the opposite is the case, we have to try and survive under the terms set by the Germans _ your way is dangerous and only brings down the fury of the Germans on all the Jews.” The partisans tried to convince them by cajoling, pleading and crying but nothing helped and so they returned to the sanctuary of the forest before the arrival of Nazi reinforcements.

The Belgian Jews waited patiently for the train to be repaired. Then, they continued on their journey eastward.

That story is one of the saddest, most chilling stories from that most sad and chilling period in history. However, more chilling is our failure to learn from those who have come before us. We still, in the words of Elie Wiesel, trust the promises of our friends more than the threats of our enemies.

While it is undeniably true that today’s train, the Arab-Israeli “peace train”, has run off the tracks, there are still those obstinate people who insist on remaining on board until the Arabs come to repair the train and carry all of us, for the sake of peace, of course, to our final destination. When Jewish leaders say that they are waiting for new leadership among the Arabs, they are really saying that they are waiting for a new crew to fix the derailed train. They have no intention of leaving the train and confronting the truth of its ultimate destination.

Often, those Jewish leaders mired in the ideology of Oslo appeasement pose what they deem to be a rhetorical question; “what’s the alternative?” The Belgian Jews in that Polish forest also grappled with “what’s the alternative?” They asked themselves: the woods or the camps? Total defiance or cooperation in an effort to appease our enemies? The answer to those condemned Jews, and to their modern day fellow-travelers now stuck on the “peace train”, has to be the same one given by my grandfather and his unit of partisans: the alternative, my brethren, is to take responsibility for yourselves and to live.

[peace4ev4]

I cant believe people are talking about stealing and robbing land its not yours to give its alll Gods Land just because you put money on it doesnt mean you own it because God can still take it away just my philosophy of how land should be thought about. i cant believe people are putting they're lives at stake just for some Land. this generation is not peaceful at all its still the leaders fault because no ones capable of believing there is still chance for peace or they dont want peace we shouldnt give up. there is a great chance of peace its just there are people with little faith like politicians. i have a so many solutions but no one is willing to hear

[Mediocrates]

Such as?

[jong52yuara]

for god's sake, there is nothing worth to fight for! everyone only lives up to 80 years why dont just get on with their lifes?

it is endless cycles of revenge and it will only makes your grandchild/younger generation suffer. for those idiots trying to get their land back are complete idiot, why these people trying to get into history mess which happened since 1948 ago?

[bararallu]

for god's sake, there is nothing worth to fight for! everyone only lives up to 80 years

Now now, recent developments in stem cells, cryogenics and vector driven genetic engineering will allow us a lot more time to fight for our lives. 80 years is just the tip of the Iceberg. As an experiment, you can come back to this forum in a 100 years, and we'll all still be here. Not so sure about the Paleostinians and their irredentist, Jew hating, supporters- feigning humanitarian hand wringing.

[jong52yuara]

Now now, recent developments in stem cells, cryogenics and vector driven genetic engineering will allow us a lot more time to fight for our lives. 80 years is just the tip of the Iceberg. As an experiment, you can come back to this forum in a 100 years, and we'll all still be here. Not so sure about the Paleostinians and their irredentist, Jew hating, supporters- feigning humanitarian hand wringing.


why choose for a fight instead you can turn away from it and go fishing, take a walk at beach, watch a movie, or do something you like and enjoy your life. life is very short and people spend their time moving forward, not trying to dig up sad history and because of somebody's interest doesnt mean that everybody else have to follow their leader's instruction and follow it.

fighting for land is purely political game!

[bararallu]

why choose for a fight instead you can turn away from it and go fishing, take a walk at beach, watch a movie, or do something you like and enjoy your life. life is very short and people spend their time moving forward, not trying to dig up sad history and because of somebody's interest doesnt mean that everybody else have to follow their leader's instruction and follow it.

fighting for land is purely political game!

Fishing is also fighting, and walking on the beach... thats violence onto the sand, and the small critters that live in it. I agree life is short! so lets make it longer! And fighting for land is purely political, lets for instance start fighting for love and sex like the ancient greeks who fought long wars over single women! (thats a double entendre btw). What do you say? Let me come to your country kidnap some random woman and then your country can declare war on mine? It would be anything but political.

[Hugh Goesse]

I cant believe people are talking about stealing and robbing land its not yours to give its alll Gods Land just because you put money on it doesnt mean you own it because God can still take it away just my philosophy of how land should be thought about. i cant believe people are putting they're lives at stake just for some Land. this generation is not peaceful at all its still the leaders fault because no ones capable of believing there is still chance for peace or they dont want peace we shouldnt give up. there is a great chance of peace its just there are people with little faith like politicians. i have a so many solutions but no one is willing to hear

It's not G_d's land: its mine, he told me so.

[bararallu]

It's not G_d's land: its mine, he told me so.

This, BTW, Hugh, is not a tenet of Zionism. Zionism makes an ethnic claim, non unlike the Welsh to Wales and Scott's to Scotland. The contending Arab claim is, however, based on religious mythology (viz., Dar Al Harb/Dar Al-Islam-Waqf al Quds). Before Nasser, with Soviet assistance, fabricated a new Levantine nation, Al Husseini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni)the Imam of Jerusalem, an Egyptian, uncle to Arafat, signed a pact with Hitler to purge the Jews from holy Arab land, not "Palestinian land"... Muslim Arab land. Ethnic cleansing of minorities (esp religious minorities) has been going on for over a millennium in the Middle East, just as it had been, until relatively recently, in Europe.

[jong52yuara]

Fishing is also fighting, and walking on the beach... thats violence onto the sand, and the small critters that live in it. I agree life is short! so lets make it longer! And fighting for land is purely political, lets for instance start fighting for love and sex like the ancient greeks who fought long wars over single women! (thats a double entendre btw). What do you say? Let me come to your country kidnap some random woman and then your country can declare war on mine? It would be anything but political.

mentality like yours is a shame to your country. it is people like you always lead the country down the drain. :o

[bararallu]

mentality like yours is a shame to your country. it is people like you always lead the country down the drain. :o

I'm afraid people like you are always taking our poor drains away, one minute we have hundreds and as we turn around they're all gone! so I'm still waiting for a nice drain of my own; we may have to build some security walls around our drains after all :(

[jong52yuara]

I'm afraid people like you are always taking our poor drains away, one minute we have hundreds and as we turn around they're all gone! so I'm still waiting for a nice drain of my own; we may have to build some security walls around our drains after all :(

if youre not able to give any reasonable suggestion, just stop ranting.

[bararallu]

if youre not able to give any reasonable suggestion, just stop ranting.

Sure, how 'bout this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3196234.stm) for a rant. You do know what a rant is don't you?

[jong52yuara]

Sure, how 'bout this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3196234.stm) for a rant. You do know what a rant is don't you?

hello.. friend, the news is like .. year 2003? and because of leader's interest or somebody else mindset, doesnt mean everyone else have to follow it and suffer, you have choice to walk away from it.

[bararallu]

hello.. friend, the news is like .. year 2003? and because of leader's interest or somebody else mindset, doesnt mean everyone else have to follow it and suffer, you have choice to walk away from it.

First of all, I'm not your friend. And so what if it's 2003, like it was 1903 or 1803... which would still be relevant, didnt notice you disagree with "Dr." Mahatir now.

Lets talk about some facts:

Fact 1. it's illegal for an Israeli to enter Malaysian territory, is that something reserved to your esteemed leadership?

Fact 2. Why speak to someone whose country has serious discrimination (http://www.worldpress.org/2298.cfm) of their minorities, e.g, it's illegal for a non Muslim, even born in Malaysia, like many Chinese and Indians, to wholly own their own business.

Fact 3. Your general human rights (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27778.htm) violations dwarf whatever happens in Israel, and things like forced conversions (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=8731) are not often reported, 'cause only Jews is news.

Fact 4. There's that little situation of harboring all those Thai school teacher killing Jihadis (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501040510-632144,00.html). We happen to like Thais and vice versa.

Fact 5. We only speak to people who agree with a bare minimum, like recognizing our very right to exist (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3292865,00.html). Before you cast the first stone, please make sure you don't live in a glass house, and dude you live in a 10 floor glass mansion.

So long, hope the Red Chinese are not looking south to your rich rice patties, with green eyes :D

[jong52yuara]

First of all, I'm not your friend. And so what if it's 2003, like it was 1903 or 1803... which would still be relevant, didnt notice you disagree with "Dr." Mahatir now.

Lets talk about some facts:

Fact 1. it's illegal for an Israeli to enter Malaysian territory, is that something reserved to your esteemed leadership?

Fact 2. Why speak to someone whose country has serious discrimination (http://www.worldpress.org/2298.cfm) of their minorities, e.g, it's illegal for a non Muslim, even born in Malaysia, like many Chinese and Indians, to wholly own their own business.

Fact 3. Your general human rights (http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27778.htm) violations dwarf whatever happens in Israel, and things like forced conversions (http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=8731) are not often reported, 'cause only Jews is news.

Fact 4. There's that little situation of harboring all those Thai school teacher killing Jihadis (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501040510-632144,00.html). We happen to like Thais and vice versa.

Fact 5. We only speak to people who agree with a bare minimum, like recognizing our very right to exist (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3292865,00.html). Before you cast the first stone, please make sure you don't live in a glass house, and dude you live in a 10 floor glass mansion.

So long, hope the Red Chinese are not looking south to your rich rice patties, with green eyes :D

israeli & malaysian has no problem entering the country. it is just both of our passport no need to be stamp.

obviously you are the one living in glass house, keep digging up old story and not moving forward. shhlT do happens, but it doesnt mean that you have to take it as your problem. how many problems or matters you can solve? are you god? not even president or king has the ability to solve every problem in their country, except they tried their best to deal with it & their capability range. the situation is also same if you or i am just a normal citizen, we do within our capability range and try to get on with lifes. the root of the problem is, younger generation being brainwashed by their leader and thats what makes them fight for their 'land' or something, this is TOTALLY WRONG. all these young people/new born babies doesnt know anything and are innocent. what does it make a different if someone born either in israel or palestine? do you still have to eat if lives in israel or palestine? do you have to study/work if lives in israel or palestine? do you have to get on with your lifes if lives in israel or palestine?

if they envy of israel's success, is it israel are leading by somekind of alien or non-human thats why they are so sucessful? if no, they are just human being, why palestine cant do the same? the country can have open economy policy and lots of people will invest. sooner or later both of the country can compete their R&D and economy in healthy way.

and again, you are the one keep ranting, yet doesnt give any solution.

[bararallu]

My solution is not to listen to cockemany claptrap from a citizen of a country that is fundamentally anti-Semitic, and supportive of the Jihad against mine. Thanks but no thanks.

[jong52yuara]

My solution is not to listen to cockemany claptrap from a citizen of a country that is fundamentally anti-Semitic, and supportive of the Jihad against mine. Thanks but no thanks.


ROFL..! what a narrow minded view, is that mean i suppose to view all american as murderer because George Bush decided to send troops to iraq and have a war there? is that fair to you?

i am NEITHER agree or disagree with what mahathir say at the islamic forum, and im not muslim either, im just saying the solution is always there and no need to involve religion.

[bararallu]

What claptrap. First of all it's a fact that Israelis (and Serbs actually) are not allowed to enter Malaysia w/o a special dispensation from the Malaysian foreign ministry, that is to say: never.

It is further a valid factor to note the hateful and discriminatory behavior applied onto non Muslims by Moslems in Malaysia, as a stated non Muslim, given the plethora of evidence, you should wholeheartedly agree... or cede that you are fibbing or worse, a good dhimmi.

It is an insult to our intelligence, to listen on one hand to someone who does not take a moral stand on rampant anti-Semitism, personified by Mahatir, while recommending a life of dhimmitude, or slaughter, or forced conversion, that would ensue a Muslim (Jihadist at that) dominated entity on the soil of Eretz Israel. Perhaps you are quite resigned to be a second class citizen in your country, I beg your pardon, but we have a little more pride than that and quite a few more options. What a sorry lot...

[Mediocrates]

hello.. friend, the news is like .. year 2003? and because of leader's interest or somebody else mindset, doesnt mean everyone else have to follow it and suffer, you have choice to walk away from it.


Your COUNTRY does not recognize the existence of Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5262490.stm

Israel says it would be "difficult if not inconceivable" to accept nations which do not recognise its right to exist as part of a UN force in Lebanon.

Israeli UN envoy Dan Gillerman was speaking after Indonesia and Malaysia, which do not recognise Israel, pledged troops for the UN deployment.

[jong52yuara]

we apply visa from the Israeli embassy in some city you resides in. Then can fly to Tel Aviv on El Al Israel Airlines via Mumbai, India( Good connections with the Malaysian Airlines flight to Mumbai from Kuala Lumpur)

[bararallu]

I don't know why I bother, but here's something to chew on:

Exhibit A (http://www.newscloud.com/read/Malaysia_says_NO_to_dialogue_with_Israel_on_Middle _East) :Malaysia says no to dialogue with Israel on Middle East issue

Exhibit B: (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4803/is_199803/ai_n17448398) Malaysian prime minister has come out with a flat No to any and all Israeli companies that wish to have economic relations with Malaysia.

Exhibit C: (http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=20201) Malaysia defies Israel over UN force in Lebanon

Exhibit D (http://www.ujf.net/page.html?ArticleID=147524): Malaysia says Fatah-Hamas violence benefiting Israel.

Exhibit E (http://www.imi.gov.my/eng/perkhidmatan/im_HapusVisa.asp): For national of Israel, visas are required and permission must be granted from Ministry of Internal Security. AKA never.

So bottom line is you live in an Anti-Semitic, racist, Islamist country, which does not have relations with my country because it is those things; it does not allow Israelis to visit it as tourists, and it continues to keep the Arab embargo on all Israeli goods to a great extent. It is further an actual interloper in Israeli internal, and bi national affairs with it's neighbors. Thats your country. You, are an apologist for your country, which makes you complicit with all the wrong your country has committed against mine. Which makes your opinions somewhere between deaf heard and irrelevant to Israelis and yourself a persona non grata in Israel, do you know what that means? It's latin and it says something about your person.

[jong52yuara]

What claptrap. First of all it's a fact that Israelis (and Serbs actually) are not allowed to enter Malaysia w/o a special dispensation from the Malaysian foreign ministry, that is to say: never.

It is further a valid factor to note the hateful and discriminatory behavior applied onto non Muslims by Moslems in Malaysia, as a stated non Muslim, given the plethora of evidence, you should wholeheartedly agree... or cede that you are fibbing or worse, a good dhimmi.

It is an insult to our intelligence, to listen on one hand to someone who does not take a moral stand on rampant anti-Semitism, personified by Mahatir, while recommending a life of dhimmitude, or slaughter, or forced conversion, that would ensue a Muslim (Jihadist at that) dominated entity on the soil of Eretz Israel. Perhaps you are quite resigned to be a second class citizen in your country, I beg your pardon, but we have a little more pride than that and quite a few more options. What a sorry lot...


Your COUNTRY does not recognize the existence of Israel

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5262490.stm

Israel says it would be "difficult if not inconceivable" to accept nations which do not recognise its right to exist as part of a UN force in Lebanon.

Israeli UN envoy Dan Gillerman was speaking after Indonesia and Malaysia, which do not recognise Israel, pledged troops for the UN deployment.




im chinese, born in Malaysia. DOESNT KNOW A THING ABOUT ISLAM, i dont see government ask anything from us, i dont know if there is anything need to do about islam either. islam is their religion and it is none of my business and im buddhist, except we just happen to live in the same land, share the same thing, share the same economy, share the same social environment, same education, and there is nothing special/funny about it. lifes just go on..

if im not mistaken, malaysia do seek some advice and military technology from israel. lots of malaysian has enter the israel for tourism purpose, except they dont have to stamp their passport.

[bararallu]

I think you need to better understand your own foreign policy before commenting on our internal affairs, which it seems you also know next to nothing about.

BTW, if your opinions are representative of Chinese natives in Malaysia then you guys are in deep trouble.

[jong52yuara]

I think you need to better understand your own foreign policy before commenting on our internal affairs, which it seems you also know next to nothing about.

BTW, if your opinions are representative of Chinese natives in Malaysia then you guys are in deep trouble.


ok... now tell me what chinese malaysian should do.. :rolleyes:

[Mediocrates]

Stay home and burn some Israeli flags in the street.

[jong52yuara]

Stay home and burn some Israeli flags in the street.

that is not a solution. palestine have to stop attacking now, because violence will never make anybody sit down and debate. future will never be determined as long as fighting is still going on.

[Mediocrates]

I no longer care. Let the Malaysian government proclaim whatever insanity they like. Just keep making cheap garments. Thanks. If your country is a hierarchical exclusionary racist society, that's your problem. Grab a gun and fix or shut up like everyone else.

And as for the Palestinians? Who really cares in the end? You can't shame the shameless. You can't make a country out of sociopaths. Let them do whatever is they do to each other, stand back and try to firewall the collateral damage. I believe all the Arab states are finally the victims of their own success. After 50 years of demanding we ignore Arab on Arab and Muslim on Muslim violence, we do. We don't care anymore. We don't notice. We don't care about their political repression, their civil wars, their genocides, famines, fascism, fundamentalism, illiteracy, poverty or plagues. It's a win-win for everyone.

This is the great idiocy of progressives: that peace means we all love another and lock arms and hug. Peace means you don't mess with me and I don't mess with you. In a postmodern world where everything is everything and legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder we no longer need worry in the least about internal disputes anywhere. In Gaza, Iraq, Sudan, Congo - screw it. That's their problem. If Malaysia erupts in ethnic war - too bad for you. Are the resort hotels still open? Will you still make T-shirts? Because otherwise I don't care.

[jong52yuara]

please stop posting if you dont care.

[Mediocrates]

I don't care about twaddling blockheads and their minions of fools.

[Yala]

ok... now tell me what chinese malaysian should do.. :rolleyes:

Go to Tibetforum.com and give advice over there....

[bararallu]

LOL, why send him there Yala? While there is so much work to be done in Malaysia? I mean if I lived in a fundamentally racist state and one that continuously backs Jihad against both my neighbors and completely unrelated states (= Israel) then I would try to do something about it, that is, unless I wasn't some sort of communist, or Islamist sympathizer.

It seems our guest here doesn't have an opinion about Dr. Mahatir, it's like a Iranian Jew not having an opinion about Ahmadinejad, that is to say fairly impossible. If he were, at least, to intimate to us that he feels that his Jihad supporting government may actually be observing his Internet traffic (not unknown in that part of the world), then I think we can be just a little bit accommodating to him.. or at least I could be.

[jong52yuara]

you want to know what our ex-minister's think? here is it, and it is about religion issues so i am NEITHER agree or disagree with mahatir's view.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-3595494.html
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/167/israelkj3.gif
http://khairulorama.wordpress.com/dr-m-on-bbc-part-2/

[Mediocrates]

From your link:

Dr Mahathir Mohamad:
I speak what I think is the truth. The financial crisis was caused by a man called George Soros and he was a Jew and I complained about that. I didn’t blame all the Jewish people - I’ve got a lot of Jewish friends. But Soros did this to us and we feel very angry about him. So I say what I think is true and I say what I think is true also about sodomy and other things.

I can only hope for the flaming erasure of your entire country and everyone in it. I'm sure some Malaysians are human beings but clearly the country of Malysia must be cleansed with atomic fire from the face of the earth.