Yom Ha-Shoah (1 min presentation)

[humus_sapiens]

http://www.thejewishexchange.com/images/holidays/yomhashoah/sixmillion.html

Has the lesson of the Holocaust been learned?

Professors for a Strong Israel - Statement to the Press
At last night's Holocaust Remembrance Day ceremony, Prime Minister Sharon condemned the phenomenon of Holocaust denial. Will he remember this when he meets the "Prime Minister" of the Palestinian Terror Authority, noted Holocaust-denier Abu Mazen?

Sharon also stated that the Jewish People have learned an important lesson from the Holocaust: never again to stand homeless and defenseless. Will he remember this when he orders the eviction of Jews from their homes, even in their homeland?

And on the same day, Shimon Peres, architect of the Oslo disaster, opined that Israeli citizens could conceivably live in Yesha under PLO rule. An Israeli living on the other side of the Green Line can stay in his home; he would become a subject of a Palestinian state, much as Jews have lived in the countries of others for centuries. Was Israel established in order that Jews might live under foreign rule? Or is this an unholy alliance between Holocaust denial and the denial of Zionism?

Professors for a Strong Israel decries once more the silence of the ministers of the government, their apparent acquiescence in the establishment of an enemy state in the heart of our country, and their readiness to allow the enemy a "right of return," starting with Yesha, but ending -- who knows where?

Dr. Ron Breiman, Chairman of PSI

[fair]

The
number 6 milions is not correct or accurate
because all jewish people allover the world at that time were less than 6 milions
beside that Holocaust included arabs and other ethnics and not only Jewishs
I think
the actual number of Holocaust was one milion from different nations and ethnics

[Donna]

Would you be so kind as to give us the accurate number of Jews who were murdered during the Holocaust?

I didn't think so.

Edited to remove the quote, and add a line.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by fair
The
number 6 milions is not correct or accurate
because all jewish people allover the world at that time were less than 6 milions
beside that Holocaust included arabs and other ethnics and not only Jewishs
I think
the actual number of Holocaust was one milion from different nations and ethnics
Excuse me, but as much as personal attacks are frowned upon at this board, the only possible thing I can think to say that might penetrate that neanderthal brow of yours is, " This is the most idiotic pile of cr@p that I've seen since the last time I looked at a post by Takeo.

By the way, how is it that you have the gall to use a screen name like "fair" and spread garbage like this?

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by fair
The
number 6 milions is not correct or accurate
because all jewish people allover the world at that time were less than 6 milions
beside that Holocaust included arabs and other ethnics and not only Jewishs
I think
the actual number of Holocaust was one milion from different nations and ethnics

1) If there was less then 6 million Jews in WW2 how come there is 13 million Jews now? That would mean over a period of around 2 generations, each Jewish couple would have to have at least 5-6 kids.

2) As far as I know Arabs cooperated with the Nazis. Why would the Nazis exterminate an ally who is cooperating in fighting the British in the War. There were some Muslims (nothing compared to Jews and Gypsies) who were slaughtered but they were definettly not Arabs.

3) I suggest you go and research historical documented records before you start speaking for baseless Nazi or Islamic propoganda. I also suggest you buy yourself a ticket to Poland or Austria for you to see yourself the scale of the holocaust.

4) You disgust me with your stinking ideology. You can only be one of 2 things... a brainwashed extremist Muslim or a Nazi. Ive always wondered why holocaust deniers try and "change history".. then I met someone exactly like you fair and realised that YOU and your chums are simply delusioned by feeling parted from sane society. I suggest that you go to a psychiatrist and sort out your issues. :mad:

[Formula]

Fair, Even on the third reich forum, people who downplay the Holocaust are looked down upon and even banned at times. :rolleyes:

Ten million total people were killed, six million of which were Jews.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Formula
Ten million total people were killed, six million of which were Jews.

the six million figure is the avrage of the high estimates (8 million) and the low estimates (4 million). The estimation were compiled in the late 1940's, just after WWII. Modern estimation bring the numbers closer to 7 million. Another "complication" is the fact that the Germans murdered half Jews, part Jews and suspected as Jews... Creatures who try to down play the holocaust by lowering the numbers of Jews murdered, may try to substract the estimation of the "Less Jewish" from the totall estimation.

Soviet communists, in their anti semetic period, tried to lower down the estimations, claiming that "Polish and Russian citizens" were the victims of the holocust, rather then "Jews".

one more note: muslems were allies of the Natzis, not only in Iraq (that has revolted), Egypt, Mandatoric Palestain, but also in Yegulsavia, where the Albanians, aided the Germans and Croats in the genocide of at least 1.5 million Serbs, many in death camps run by Croats.

Muslems were never under a threat of extermination.

[Mediocrates]

I'm not keyed to delete anything in this folder but I would if I could. Problem is you've all quoted it so it's a freakin mess.

There is no point in engaging Holocaust deniers. None.

[yehudi]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
Sharon also stated that the Jewish People have learned an important lesson from the Holocaust: never again to stand homeless and defenseless.If we take the idea that jews should do everything to avoid another holocaust having a 'home' like israel is not a good idea.


Concentrating plenty of jews in one country that produces and is the focus of hatred makes it an easy target for a WMD (like a nuclear bomb).


.

[Mediocrates]

That's complete nonsense which I would explain to you if I had the time.

Think laws, borders, armies etc.

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by yehudi
If we take the idea that jews should do everything to avoid another holocaust having a 'home' like israel is not a good idea.

YOU ARE HILARIOUS!!! You have just given me a "stitch" laughing at these comments.

Concentrating plenty of jews in one country that produces and is the focus of hatred makes it an easy target for a WMD (like a nuclear bomb).


I dont know how to reply because its such an idiotic post!

[yehudi]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
That's complete nonsense which I would explain to you if I had the time. please explain.

I just imagine a cargo ship docking or just approaching Tel Aviv or Haifa and boom.

You find that hilarious, Am Yisrael?

.

[alexbmn]

well you know during WWII Jews were scattered all over Europe.

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by yehudi
please explain.

I just imagine a cargo ship docking or just approaching Tel Aviv or Haifa and boom.

You find that hilarious, Am Yisrael?

.

No I dont find that hilarious. I found your previous post hilarious however. Ill try to explain....

Originally posted by yehudi
If we take the idea that jews should do everything to avoid another holocaust having a 'home' like israel is not a good idea.

Israel has and is a "safe haven" for Jews around the world. It has rescued Jews from persecution in Iraq, Morroco, Syria, Ethiopia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Soviet Union etc etc. These Jews were not tolerated in the lands they were living. If there was no Israel where would these Jews have gone to escape persecution? Israel probably had prevented another holocaust just by existing and accepting these Jews.

Concentrating plenty of jews in one country that produces and is the focus of hatred makes it an easy target for a WMD (like a nuclear bomb).

Wouldnt a united Jewish entity (Israel) suffer less then a dispersed Jewish entity living in lands where they are not welcome?

I hope you understand why I viewed your previous post as hilarious. It doesnt make sense. You obviously think that Israel is more harm for Jews than good. You also think that Israel is less safe for Jews then living in exile among intollerent nations.

[yehudi]

Originally posted by Am Yisrael
No I dont find that hilarious. I found your previous post hilarious however. Ok I can breathe


Originally posted by Am Yisrael
Israel has and is a "safe haven" for Jews around the world. It has rescued Jews from persecution in Iraq, Morroco, Syria, Ethiopia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Soviet Union etc etc. These Jews were not tolerated in the lands they were living. If there was no Israel where would these Jews have gone to escape persecution? Israel probably had prevented another holocaust just by existing and accepting these Jews. No doubt the work done was fine. Still I see more Israel as a transit country than a home.


I am going to attract criticisms again, but well, this is what I have in mind:

The jewish culture is a minority culture.
==========================
And fundamentally, I think that being a minority is a big part why Jews where at the source of so many innovations. People who innovate and make discoveries are never part of the majority. They are travellers, people living on the margins, the edge of societies. People with a difference, that are compelled to always be on the move, striving to be the best at all times.



This is what I think I understood watching the wonderful film by Emmanuel Finkiel, Voyages. The third story is the story of the aliya of Vera, " there's Vera, an 85-year-old Russian woman who has recently emigrated to Israel, looking for a long-lost cousin" (http://www.filmfestivals.com/cannes99/html/quinzaine12.htm or http://www.indiewire.com/movies/rev_010130_Voyages.html). Vera tries to speak Yiddish to Israelis, but no one speaks Yiddish. In the streets and traffic jams, people are violent, shouting at one another…. In the end she says. "I came to Israel to find jews, but I found only israelis".
but this is just one of the many things to meditate, the film is really a masterpiece (anyone saw it? When I talk about films here no one seems to answer, when France fight for the diversity of culture bulldozed by Hollywood, it is for films like this one).


When the jews become a majority, they simply are not jews anymore… they are just like any other people. (And sometimes persecutors themselves btw).


I do not mean to be racist or deny the right of jews to 'have a home', but to me a "being a jew at home" is simply a contradiction.



For me the real problem is not 'having a home', but 'how to live as a minority'. I already explained my thoughts on what it means in today's world on another thread.


Originally posted by Am Yisrael
Wouldnt a united Jewish entity (Israel) suffer less then a dispersed Jewish entity living in lands where they are not welcome? I think Israel has become a big trap, a source of hatred and terrorism and that all the world suffers from this.

The debate about weapons of mass destruction is not a joke.
Attracting hatred like a magnet + technological progress = Israel will be destroyed.

That's why I'm repeating over and over that the time for peace is now. Israel destruction is impossible because no one will dare displease the US for a while. Their technological advance is considerable.

Do not wait. Just move now. Making peace will take a generation.


Tomorrow it will be too late. Not only states, but organizations will be able to build WMD. Suicide bombers will have nukes or whatever WMD the human mind will invent.


I beg you to establish a just, lasting peace now


.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by yehudi
Ok I can breathe


No doubt the work done was fine. Still I see more Israel as a transit country than a home.


I am going to attract criticisms again, but well, this is what I have in mind:

The jewish culture is a minority culture.
==========================
And fundamentally, I think that being a minority is a big part why Jews where at the source of so many innovations. People who innovate and make discoveries are never part of the majority. They are travellers, people living on the margins, the edge of societies. People with a difference, that are compelled to always be on the move, striving to be the best at all times.



This is what I think I understood watching the wonderful film by Emmanuel Finkiel, Voyages. The third story is the story of the aliya of Vera, " there's Vera, an 85-year-old Russian woman who has recently emigrated to Israel, looking for a long-lost cousin" (http://www.filmfestivals.com/cannes99/html/quinzaine12.htm or http://www.indiewire.com/movies/rev_010130_Voyages.html). Vera tries to speak Yiddish to Israelis, but no one speaks Yiddish. In the streets and traffic jams, people are violent, shouting at one another…. In the end she says. "I came to Israel to find jews, but I found only israelis".
but this is just one of the many things to meditate, the film is really a masterpiece (anyone saw it? When I talk about films here no one seems to answer, when France fight for the diversity of culture bulldozed by Hollywood, it is for films like this one).


When the jews become a majority, they simply are not jews anymore… they are just like any other people. (And sometimes persecutors themselves btw).


I do not mean to be racist or deny the right of jews to 'have a home', but to me a "being a jew at home" is simply a contradiction.



For me the real problem is not 'having a home', but 'how to live as a minority'. I already explained my thoughts on what it means in today's world on another thread.


I think Israel has become a big trap, a source of hatred and terrorism and that all the world suffers from this.

The debate about weapons of mass destruction is not a joke.
Attracting hatred like a magnet + technological progress = Israel will be destroyed.

That's why I'm repeating over and over that the time for peace is now. Israel destruction is impossible because no one will dare displease the US for a while. Their technological advance is considerable.

Do not wait. Just move now. Making peace will take a generation.


Tomorrow it will be too late. Not only states, but organizations will be able to build WMD. Suicide bombers will have nukes or whatever WMD the human mind will invent.


I beg you to establish a just, lasting peace now


.
All in all, I find your views very offensive. This observation is based on having read most of the posts that you have made at this forum.

Your opinions are so shallow, your views so naive that I have found myself wondering just how old you really are. My guess is that you are of high school age.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by MichaelC
All in all, I find your views very offensive. This observation is based on having read most of the posts that you have made at this forum.

Your opinions are so shallow, your views so naive that I have found myself wondering just how old you really are. My guess is that you are of high school age.

Lemme guess... No good grades, and not too popular either?

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by yehudi
I do not mean to be racist or deny the right of jews to 'have a home', but to me a "being a jew at home" is simply a contradiction.

For me Israel is the best thing that happened to Jews over the last 2000 years. Forget all the inventions.. we need a place where we can unite and get away from persecution. Im so glad I live in the era where I am viewing such a historic and amazing sight.

I beg you to establish a just, lasting peace now

Peace has to come from both sides. Jews are always ready for peace. Weve been fighting for the last 2000 yrs for our survival. A little more fighting is not going to hurt. Just look at it this way... Jews have never been in a better position since we were led out of Egypt by Moses and Joshua. 50 yrs ago we were being slaughtered in the millions. Now we have a home to protect us from this type of onslaught.

[MichaelC]

Originally posted by Am Yisrael
For me Israel is the best thing that happened to Jews over the last 2000 years. Forget all the inventions.. we need a place where we can unite and get away from persecution. Im so glad I live in the era where I am viewing such a historic and amazing sight.



Peace has to come from both sides. Jews are always ready for peace. Weve been fighting for the last 2000 yrs for our survival. A little more fighting is not going to hurt. Just look at it this way... Jews have never been in a better position since we were led out of Egypt by Moses and Joshua. 50 yrs ago we were being slaughtered in the millions. Now we have a home to protect us from this type of onslaught. I admire the pluck and good faith with which you deal with this person's reprehensible views. Would that he acted in good faith also. My feeling though, is that his agenda runs him around and he just can't bring himself to shake it no matter how much knowledge and wisdom he is exposed to.