Why does everyone hate the Israeli right?

[Adversary2Arabs]

The Israeli right aren't out to hurt their country in any way, shape or form. The Israeli left isn't either, but they sure do a good job at it. The Israeli right wants to take the only sure and safest ways to any goal - especially when it comes to terrorism and terrorists. So, I ask you, why hate the Israeli right?

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Adversary2Arabs
The Israeli right aren't out to hurt their country in any way, shape or form. The Israeli left isn't either, but they sure do a good job at it. The Israeli right wants to take the only sure and safest ways to any goal - especially when it comes to terrorism and terrorists. So, I ask you, why hate the Israeli right?

I have few answers for you. I believe people hate armed Jews and fear the Jewish ideas of payback and retrobution. Even the ideas of moral, truth and justace spooks them.

Many people, aspecialy Arabs and Europeans caused us much grive. Even today, many europeans are quite anti semetic. They know that and they feel what's coming to them, and fear it.

On the long run, the combination of a fighting Jew who belive in justace and vegeance, heavily disturbes their peace. The IDF, and a winning IDF, cause them much worry.

[Evgeny]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
I have few answers for you. I believe people hate armed Jews and fear the Jewish ideas of payback and retrobution. Even the ideas of moraly, truth and justace spooks them.

Many people, aspecialy Arabs and Europeans caused us much grive. Even today, many europeans are quite anti semetic.

On the long run, the combination of a fighting Jew who belive in justace and vegeance, heavily disturbes their peace. The IDF, and a winning IDF, cause them much worry.

how about the IDF storm into europe and take retribution against the anti-semites. Also if any european fights back the banner of anti-semitism shall be raised.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Gilgamesh, I think you're correct. I never thought of it in that sense.

[NewsGuy]

What Gilgamesh is saying is correct, but I still don't accept the premise of the thread.

Different people have different political views, and it's this way in all countries.

In the U.S., for example, many liberals hate conservative ideas and vice versa. Same thing in Israel. The extreme Left hates the extreme Right, and the other way around.

Both camps think that they have the perfect solution, although neither has ever succeeded when their governments were in power.

But the Israeli Right is not a hated group more than the Israeli Left and both are generally hated by those around the world who hate all Jews, regardless of ideology.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Evgeny
how about the IDF storm into europe and take retribution against the anti-semites. Also if any european fights back the banner of anti-semitism shall be raised.

One thing at a time. Don't worry, as long as I'm around, you all live on borrowed time. The "flag of anti semetism" is already waving for hundreds of years.

[Kapiti]

Newsguy "But the Israeli Right is not a hated group more than the Israeli Left and both are generally hated by those around the world who hate all Jews, regardless of ideology"

I cannot agree. The Israeli right is regarded as far less tolerant, more extremist and much less fair. For these reasons it is regarded with a greater degree of anger and frustration than the left by the world at large.

Of course this is a broad generalisation but do you seriously disagree with this ??

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Kapiti
Newsguy "But the Israeli Right is not a hated group more than the Israeli Left and both are generally hated by those around the world who hate all Jews, regardless of ideology"

I cannot agree. The Israeli right is regarded as far less tolerant, more extremist and much less fair. For these reasons it is regarded with a greater degree of anger and frustration than the left by the world at large.

Of course this is a broad generalisation but do you seriously disagree with this ??

Anti semetic have allways prefered Letics colaborative Jews, the kind that wait for the anti semeitcs, bending over with their pents down.

We Zionist are not like that. We care for our own, regardless of what the anti semetic world think of it. We will defend our selves even despite the World discomfort over this idea.

Proof of Anti semetism: The world accepts in tolerant Arabs. Ignores Arab goverments official (and private) anti semetic media. Many European countries host with pleasure racist intolerant fundemetalist Arab organizations. "intolerance" was never an issue in Europe. Zionism and winning IDF, is.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Kapiti
I cannot agree. The Israeli right is regarded as far less tolerant, more extremist and much less fair. For these reasons it is regarded with a greater degree of anger and frustration than the left by the world at large.


Only among people like who are going to basically savage Israel for anything it does or doesn't do. You like the Left because you think they're more willing to die for you. That's all.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
What Gilgamesh is saying is correct, but I still don't accept the premise of the thread.

Different people have different political views, and it's this way in all countries.

In the U.S., for example, many liberals hate conservative ideas and vice versa. Same thing in Israel. The extreme Left hates the extreme Right, and the other way around.

Both camps think that they have the perfect solution, although neither has ever succeeded when their governments were in power.

But the Israeli Right is not a hated group more than the Israeli Left and both are generally hated by those around the world who hate all Jews, regardless of ideology.

When was Kahane ever in power? Last I heard he was banned from Knesset before he was assassinated...

[Kapiti]

The thread started "Why does everyone hate the Israeli right?" An important word in the question is "everyone" Obviously he does not literally mean every single last person on the planet but rather what Adversary2Arabs presumably sees as a large number of people.

The idea that the Israeli right is perceived by many to be more inflexible and militaristic and less tolerant and forgiving than the left would be obvious to anyone who had even a cursory idea of Middle Eastern Politics. This perception certainly for some people goes some way to explaining a feeling of antagonism for the Israeli right.

Only those who are so one eyed that they are blind to obvious common sense would not accept this.

Mediocrates - Again striving for irrelevance.

[Mediocrates]

The right is what the right is. That is their nature. Your crticism basically amounts to "the problem with the right is that they are not the left."


Talk about irrelevance....

[Communication]

Originally posted by Kapiti
The thread started "Why does everyone hate the Israeli right?" An important word in the question is "everyone" Obviously he does not literally mean every single last person on the planet but rather what Adversary2Arabs presumably sees as a large number of people.

The idea that the Israeli right is perceived by many to be more inflexible and militaristic and less tolerant and forgiving than the left would be obvious to anyone who had even a cursory idea of Middle Eastern Politics. This perception certainly for some people goes some way to explaining a feeling of antagonism for the Israeli right.

Only those who are so one eyed that they are blind to obvious common sense would not accept this.

Mediocrates - Again striving for irrelevance.

Hi Kapiti!

I think I understand where you are coming from, but I also think such an impression is way off the mark. Historically, any peace treaty worth its' salt has been negotiated by a right-wing Israeli. Israeli Arabs know this, which is why many voted for Sharon (as strange as that may seem to Europeans and Americans). There are degrees to everything, and so if you are looking at the far right extremists, then sure, they are a barrier to peace. But then so are the extreme leftists who think that a Jew's place is up on the cross.

The ME is crazy! Seriously, it's crazy. We all love it, but that's because we're all crazy. So unless you think that you can understand crazy people, don't try too hard to analyze it. It will only drive you crazy.

[Kapiti]

Communication - I respect your style, in the past your research and a couple of new ideas (new to me at least) that you have put forward.

I make these compliments because what I am about to say is not.

The thread title was "Why does everyone hate the Israeli right" Making a comment on what I strongly believe is a very common perception is very much "on the mark" Your comments may all be true but they belong in another thread.

Have another look at my prior posting and tell me whether you believe that much of the anger/hatred in the world for the far right in Israel is because they are seen to be "more inflexible and militaristic and less tolerant and forgiving than the left"

The answer is "Of course"

Mediocrates - My comments on the far right were not intended as criticsm but rather simply an observation. Having problems telling the difference ? Seems to me that you are admitting the far right also is worthy of criticsm.

[Communication]

Originally posted by Kapiti
Communication - I respect your style, in the past your research and a couple of new ideas (new to me at least) that you have put forward.

I make these compliments because what I am about to say is not.

The thread title was "Why does everyone hate the Israeli right" Making a comment on what I strongly believe is a very common perception is very much "on the mark" Your comments may all be true but they belong in another thread.

Have another look at my prior posting and tell me whether you believe that much of the anger/hatred in the world for the far right in Israel is because they are seen to be "more inflexible and militaristic and less tolerant and forgiving than the left"

The answer is "Of course"

Mediocrates - My comments on the far right were not intended as criticsm but rather simply an observation. Having problems telling the difference ? Seems to me that you are admitting the far right also is worthy of criticsm.

Having a bad day, Kapiti?

What I said is that I can see where that impression about the Israeli right comes from (mainly the media, propaganda and general notions of what it means to be "left" or "right") but those who think that are way of the mark when you take into account the REALITY of the ME as well as its' HISTORY. So don't take it too personally, I read what you wrote and I didn't mean to imply that YOU were off the mark in pointing out the common perception, just that such impressions about the Israeli right tend to be very simple-minded, and that is why I backed up my point with a specific example involving Begin.

I also take back everything I said; the whole world is crazy, not just the ME. :(

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Kapiti
Mediocrates - My comments on the far right were not intended as criticsm but rather simply an observation. Having problems telling the difference ? Seems to me that you are admitting the far right also is worthy of criticsm.


No not at all. The point being that anyone to the right of Arafat to you is a zealot extremist with a machine gun.

[Kapiti]

Mediocrates - There is a planet millions of light years away from anything you have ever experienced or even thought of. It is called reality. You really ought to visit it.

Its a great place. Unlike your world, there are more than two categories in the world - Jews and anti-semites. The people on this planet have the ability to judge what is fair and what is action and what is reaction.

Maybe if you spent less time on the computer (more than 5,000 posts) and maybe thought about getting a life you would learn that this planet is not so hostile. Maybe even your posts would be worth reading.

Communication- You need more sleep. Your example was about Sharon. I appreciate however your clarification.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Kapiti
Its a great place. Unlike your world, there are more than two categories in the world - Jews and anti-semites. The people on this planet have the ability to judge what is fair and what is action and what is reaction.
True, but you Kapiti, is obviously not on of them... and you're not Jewish either, which leaves us with...

[ibrodsky]

Personally, I reserve most of my hatred for Palestinian terrorists and their supporters.

Nothing has done more to unite Israelis (and Jews elsewhere) than the Palestinians' evil campaign to mass murder Jews. So instead of hating the Israeli left or right, we should focus on complete military victory over the "Palestinian" terrorist entity.

[Communication]

Originally posted by Kapiti


Communication- You need more sleep. Your example was about Sharon. I appreciate however your clarification.

Ummm, no. Perhaps you should get some sleep, or maybe read a damn book. My example was about Begin, not Sharon. The point being, and I'll repeat it only once more for you so try and keep up, Kapiti:


"Historically, any peace treaty worth its' salt has been negotiated by a right-wing Israeli."

and if you need to resort to insults against any members of this board to prove a point, perhaps you should reconsider your position.

[machiavelli]

Sharon has demonstarted that he is essentially one of the few that can manage to bring the Palestinians to the table and to discuss security for all concerned.
I don't think we should be advocating praise for the "right" as such,but should praise,Sharon who has had the strength and fortitude,to tackle the hard decisions and to bring about an enviroment which makes Israel stronger in the peace process.
I ask how many amongst Israel's politcinas would have had the strength to have combated the international community the way that Sharon did?
I doubt that even most of his enenemies in Likud,would have had the ability to have handled the situtation.
So,don't praise the "right",merely praise the man who has managed to get Israel to the place it sits today.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Kapiti
The idea that the Israeli right is perceived by many to be more inflexible and militaristic and less tolerant and forgiving than the left would be obvious to anyone who had even a cursory idea of Middle Eastern Politics. This perception certainly for some people goes some way to explaining a feeling of antagonism for the Israeli right.


Darling Darling perhaps you'd like to explain yourself who 'they' are here. Who precisely is 'right' and what is it you claim they claim to stand for. No more vague bomb tossing thank you.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
No not at all. The point being that anyone to the right of Arafat to you is a zealot extremist with a machine gun.

I couldn't have made a better observation of his views myself.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
Personally, I reserve most of my hatred for Palestinian terrorists and their supporters.

Nothing has done more to unite Israelis (and Jews elsewhere) than the Palestinians' evil campaign to mass murder Jews. So instead of hating the Israeli left or right, we should focus on complete military victory over the "Palestinian" terrorist entity.

Thats a good question. This is exactly why I posed the question in the first place on why Israeli right is depicted so negativly throughout the world.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by machiavelli
Sharon has demonstarted that he is essentially one of the few that can manage to bring the Palestinians to the table and to discuss security for all concerned.
I don't think we should be advocating praise for the "right" as such,but should praise,Sharon who has had the strength and fortitude,to tackle the hard decisions and to bring about an enviroment which makes Israel stronger in the peace process.
I ask how many amongst Israel's politcinas would have had the strength to have combated the international community the way that Sharon did?
I doubt that even most of his enenemies in Likud,would have had the ability to have handled the situtation.
So,don't praise the "right",merely praise the man who has managed to get Israel to the place it sits today.

I have to say, my pet goldfish could have done better. A common philosophy in which I believe fits perfectly here is the "who cares". Apathy on what other nations believe in what should be dominant in Israeli poltics. I think Sharon the "Hawk" has lost his feathers...

[almonddew]

Here is your answer as to why. Because they didn't learn their lesson after murdering one Israeli PM they will soon be out to get another one!

Sharon's security tightened over threats from extremists

http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=ArticlePage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El2373&enZone=Security&enVersion=0&

Thanks,
Tal

[Gilgamesh]

Mar Tal Shaked!
Ase tova le'kulanu, ve'leh lekol ha'ruhot!!!

[earth.observer]

I think the point about hating the Israeli right is that Europe is now in a post-ideological era. Everyone remembers the evils of European ideologies (imperialism, colonialism, fascism, communism, capitalism, etc.) and has a fear of these 'isms'. Zionism is perceived as part of these 'isms' (which strictly speaking it is) and in light of what is happening in the territories hatred of Zionism seems justified. Islamic fundamentalism is also feared, but its roots are perceived to lie in the excesses of European 'isms' so the theory goes that finishing off the causal 'isms' will lead to a decline in Islamic fundamentalism. I don't believe hatred of the Israeli right is anti-semitism, but it might be based on a misundertanding of Zionism's origins, hence the view that Zionism is a form of imperialism or colonialism. Also, using the term 'Zionism' was a grave mistake in light of the Protocols which attach a deep stigma to the term and concept. I don't like this any more than any of you do, but it is a fact that, in the psyche of many, Zionism and the Elders are equivalents.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by earth.observer
I think the point about hating the Israeli right is that Europe is now in a post-ideological era. Everyone remembers the evils of European ideologies (imperialism, colonialism, fascism, communism, capitalism, etc.) and has a fear of these 'isms'. You are right! that fear of "isms" is called dacadence. If one can not make up his mind, choosing good 'isms' from bad 'isms', making a difference between good and evil, he is nothing more then a beast. Are the European beasts? Are they beyoned good and evil? It's their choice to make.

The very fact they still consider Islamist fundemetalism as exotic or a coriusity. And Arab anti semetism as justified, (although "militant"), instead of clean cut ilegal, prove more then a thousand witnesses, that the European are still racits b*starts, when it comes to us, Jews.

Islamist are making 10% of the net European population. And that for starters...

Zionism is perceived as part of these 'isms' (which strictly speaking it is) and in light of what is happening in the territories hatred of Zionism seems justified. Islamic fundamentalism is also feared, but its roots are perceived to lie in the excesses of European 'isms' so the theory goes that finishing off the causal 'isms' will lead to a decline in Islamic fundamentalism. I don't believe hatred of the Israeli right is anti-semitism, but it might be based on a misundertanding of Zionism's origins, hence the view that Zionism is a form of imperialism or colonialism. Also, using the term 'Zionism' was a grave mistake in light of the Protocols which attach a deep stigma to the term and concept. I don't like this any more than any of you do, but it is a fact that, in the psyche of many, Zionism and the Elders are equivalents.
Hatered of Zionism got even deeper roots then what you describe. European fear, for many reasons, the very idea of Jewish identity. The existance of Jewish identity is a statement shared by Zionists and Anti semetic alike: "There are Jews, they form a nation". European, being fundemetaly anti semetic, yet they oppose racism, for economical and fasionable reasons, find them selves in a paradox. "If Jews form a nation, then the anti semetics must be right, but anti semetism is sooo last year...".

Self hating Jews, are with in similar catch. They can not assimilate, find it hard to recive recognition as European or Americans when we Zionist work so hard to lable them as Jews. Normal people get along: "I am a Jew, and I proud of it!!!". Anti-Zionist Jews, can't escape that identity, so they become Anti Zionist, so to prove their blind and totaly loyalty to the getile Anti semetic mob they live among.

The huge impact of Jewish history, economy, moral and technology, is that great, that Europeans self asteem as civilized nation, is deeply threatened, once Jews would be considered as a Nation, let alone, non European nation. The fact Jesus is Jewish and the bible never mentiones the Europeans is one blow, at up on it the fact Einstain or Shpinosa are Jewish instead of European, is a major blow. Admit it, a European can't open a radio with out being exposed to so Jewish contribution to it (unless its a silly yoddle contest or idiotic "Natzi music").

Should you strip European culture from all Jewish contributions along the ages, what does the European left with? Natzism and racism. The Africans of the Sahara desert got higher culture then that...

The very idea behind anti semetism, started in the Roman times, is a result of the anciant inferiority complex of the European West against the ME civilizations. This inferiority complex officialy started in the days of Alexander Mockdon, 4th century BC... Who, following the conqest of Persia, Announced himslef as a Persian King (and a god) rather then a simple warlord of a distant primitive nation of shapehareds.

[earth.observer]

You are right! that fear of "isms" is called dacadence. If one can not make up his mind, choosing good 'isms' from bad 'isms', making a difference between good and evil, he is nothing more then a beast. Are the European beasts? Are they beyoned good and evil? It's their choice to make.


Who says that fear of isms is decadence? That is absurd. Then you start going on and on about Europeans being beasts? You seem to defend these isms, including fascism and Communism. Is that your intent?



The very fact they still consider Islamist fundemetalism as exotic or a coriusity.


I don't agree. I think that Europeans probably do not see it as being as dangerous as Nazism or Communism. As bad as Islamic fundamentalism is, it hasn't come close to killing 100 million people that the Nazis and Soviets did.




And Arab anti semetism as justified, (although "militant"), instead of clean cut ilegal, prove more then a thousand witnesses, that the European are still racits b*starts, when it comes to us, Jews.


Like I said, they see Islamic fundamentalism as being caused by other isms. If you eradicate these other isms then Islamic fundamentalism will be less of a problem.

[Mil]

Mda..... skychnenko.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by earth.observer
Who says that fear of isms is decadence? That is absurd. Then you start going on and on about Europeans being beasts? You seem to defend these isms, including fascism and Communism. Is that your intent?
I assumed I explained myself quite well. Obviously I assumed wrong.

Any "ism" is, in fact, a set of values. Some bad, some evil, few are good. Not having any "ism", is in fact forgeting any values. Aspecialy is there is not new "ism" to replace it. Bottom line: One must have some kind of a philosophy or religion that maks the difference between Good and evil. Ha'Im Ad Kan?

ignoring all values, forgeting all differences between Good and Evil, leave you only with the day to day decision making. The persue of self love and bottomless matirialism. In other words: decadence. The idea of not carring what happence out side one's flat. Endless cycle of pork sausage-football-bear-porn, that what a decadent european calles "isms-free-normal-life". Ha'Im Rutt??? Yesh?

I don't agree. I think that Europeans probably do not see it as being as dangerous as Nazism or Communism. As bad as Islamic fundamentalism is, it hasn't come close to killing 100 million people that the Nazis and Soviets did.
Of course they don't consider Islamist fundemenalism as dangerus. They never considered Natzism as dangerus. Fact is many of them colaborated and even volenteered to Hitler's SS.

Fact is, that for now, the Islamist fundementalism aimes at Jews and Americans. The problem is, the europeans aren't bothered enough by that. They have no problems in coloborating with declared enemies of the Jewish people: Syrians, Iranians, Arafat terror organizations, al qa'ida...

Islamist fundemetalism already murdered millions in Sudan, but since the murdered are Blacks living in a wasted desert, and Sudanees is backed by oil rich Arab countries, no one gives a d*m. Let alone in "moralistic" Europe. Islamist fundemetalist terrorism is responsible the million death combined in Algiers, Israel, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Yeman, Nigeria, India, Afganistan, USA...

Arab anti semetic media is a known pained fact. anti semetic incitement occured all over the Arab world, even among Arabs how never seen a single Jew in real life. Even in countries like Egypt, with whom we have a "peace treaty" which supposed to prevent such anti semetic incitement, an obligaytion the Egyptions have signed!!!

Islamist fundementalism differes from the Natzis, in respect for us Jews, only in means. Arabs don't send Jews to death camps, yet. They lack nothing about intent. European ignorance of such, and European support of such, only highlights the idea that Europe anti semetic attitude changed little, they only pay Arab proxies to do their Job.

Like I said, they see Islamic fundamentalism as being caused by other isms. If you eradicate these other isms then Islamic fundamentalism will be less of a problem.
Dai, Nim'as li !! Choose your side already. Are you a Jew or a European!

I don't see any connection between the so called "occupation" to Pakistani terrorism in India, or the seasonal massacres in Algiers or the 9-11 massacre in NY. !!! The only "ism" behind it is called Islamist fundemetalism.

[Evgeny]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
You are right! that fear of "isms" is called dacadence. If one can not make up his mind, choosing good 'isms' from bad 'isms', making a difference between good and evil, he is nothing more then a beast. Are the European beasts? Are they beyoned good and evil? It's their choice to make.

The very fact they still consider Islamist fundemetalism as exotic or a coriusity. And Arab anti semetism as justified, (although "militant"), instead of clean cut ilegal, prove more then a thousand witnesses, that the European are still racits b*starts, when it comes to us, Jews.

Islamist are making 10% of the net European population. And that for starters...


Hatered of Zionism got even deeper roots then what you describe. European fear, for many reasons, the very idea of Jewish identity. The existance of Jewish identity is a statement shared by Zionists and Anti semetic alike: "There are Jews, they form a nation". European, being fundemetaly anti semetic, yet they oppose racism, for economical and fasionable reasons, find them selves in a paradox. "If Jews form a nation, then the anti semetics must be right, but anti semetism is sooo last year...".

Self hating Jews, are with in similar catch. They can not assimilate, find it hard to recive recognition as European or Americans when we Zionist work so hard to lable them as Jews. Normal people get along: "I am a Jew, and I proud of it!!!". Anti-Zionist Jews, can't escape that identity, so they become Anti Zionist, so to prove their blind and totaly loyalty to the getile Anti semetic mob they live among.

The huge impact of Jewish history, economy, moral and technology, is that great, that Europeans self asteem as civilized nation, is deeply threatened, once Jews would be considered as a Nation, let alone, non European nation. The fact Jesus is Jewish and the bible never mentiones the Europeans is one blow, at up on it the fact Einstain or Shpinosa are Jewish instead of European, is a major blow. Admit it, a European can't open a radio with out being exposed to so Jewish contribution to it (unless its a silly yoddle contest or idiotic "Natzi music").

Should you strip European culture from all Jewish contributions along the ages, what does the European left with? Natzism and racism. The Africans of the Sahara desert got higher culture then that...

The very idea behind anti semetism, started in the Roman times, is a result of the anciant inferiority complex of the European West against the ME civilizations. This inferiority complex officialy started in the days of Alexander Mockdon, 4th century BC... Who, following the conqest of Persia, Announced himslef as a Persian King (and a god) rather then a simple warlord of a distant primitive nation of shapehareds. [/B]

Bach, Wagner, Mozart, Micalaglo, Rofael,Medaleev, Tchaskovsky, Capernicus, Plato, Marco Polo. along with countless other Europeans who made this world a better place. Does it matter that the bible does not mention Europe? no, becasue Eurpean culture along with Asian is the most advanced ever, Jew sdont come close, sorry.

[elke]

Originally posted by Evgeny
Bach, Wagner, Mozart, Micalaglo, Rofael,Medaleev, Tchaskovsky, Capernicus, Plato, Marco Polo. along with countless other Europeans who made this world a better place. Does it matter that the bible does not mention Europe? no, becasue Eurpean culture along with Asian is the most advanced ever, Jew sdont come close, sorry.

Sorry to disappoint you, but there were plenty of Jews among the "Europeans" who have contributed to human civilization. As well as the Russians, Germans, Italians, Chechs, etc. etc. etc.

As a major contribution to the Western worldview, the Jews do take the cake, however: from Tanakh to the New Testament, the Western civilization is based on the bedrock of Jewish philosophy.

[Am Yisrael]

Originally posted by Evgeny
Bach, Wagner, Mozart, Micalaglo, Rofael,Medaleev, Tchaskovsky, Capernicus, Plato, Marco Polo. along with countless other Europeans who made this world a better place. Does it matter that the bible does not mention Europe? no, becasue Eurpean culture along with Asian is the most advanced ever, Jew sdont come close, sorry.

You dont deserve to breath.

[Evgeny]

of Jews made many great contributions i was only trying to prove to Gilgamesh that the world does not began and end with Jews.

[Mediocrates]

You'll have to excuse Evgeny - he doesn't know that American history is saturated with stars of Jewish brilliance. The Jews his people didn't pogrom away came here and things were never the same for America and for the world.