All is lost

[Israelite-Tribe]

Ladies and gentlemen... My fellow good Jewish brothers and sisters... I believe this is the end, this is where we lost, the economy is the main reason I believe... Maybe just MAYBE some good will come out of this roadkillmap... but why take the chance when not too long ago we lost 6 million of our own? I believe that if this plan is put into place, the palestinians will only organize themselves even more and make even more children and then in the end THEY WILL OCCUPY US... We are right now 80% Jewish in Israel = THE JEWISH STATE... We must somehow voice this but we can't because all this will bring in Israel is a civil war... do we want that ? no... so what do we do ? Transfer all the palestinians to Jordan ?? Well it seems we gave up on that one... Why don't we just ''PRETEND'' to go on with this roadmap and then screw it all up with some strategies of war and politics and then have a justification to transfer them... or maybe this is jus what is happening right now? Why would a right winger accept this kind of plan? If anyone has any good explanation let's hear it... :mad:

[L@mplighterM]

I think the ones that dictate this roadmap garbage should be forced to rid the whole area of terrorists. Clean it up…period!

[richcrassus]

Originally posted by Israelite-Tribe
Transfer all the palestinians to Jordan ?? Well it seems we gave up on that one...

Maybe you didnt read what GILGAMESH said to me about why we "cant" expel the pals.

[L@mplighterM]

I just saw Sharon on the tube stating quite clearly that he wanted to end the occupation. Sorry I don’t see it as an occupation never did and never will.

Land for peace will not work and its doomed to failure!

Arabs want it all and they are getting it piece by piece.

[andak01]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
I just saw Sharon on the tube stating quite clearly that he wanted to end the occupation. Sorry I don’t see it as an occupation never did and never will.

Land for peace will not work and its doomed to failure!

Arabs want it all and they are getting it piece by piece.

I'm sitting here on Indian territory. I was raised to ignore that fact as well. You have to be an Indian to refer to the migration as a trail of tears. We just called it progress. Whatever we have done since then, the Indians are no longer struggling or asking for their land back.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by Israelite-Tribe
Ladies and gentlemen... My fellow good Jewish brothers and sisters... I believe this is the end, this is where we lost,


Do you really believe the Jews will allow themselves led into another Holocaust? (As a matter of fact, some happily will, but most won't. We are not big on martyrdom suicides.)

Do you seriously think the Arabs will succeed where the Pharaohs-Philistines-Babylonians-Assyrians-Greeks-Romans-Crusaders-Inquisitors-Cossacs-Commies-Nazis have failed miserably? (Did I miss anyone? And where are they all?)

Our enemies think they saw the best of us, but we haven't even started fighting back yet. And this time we are not all alone. I have many Christian and Indian (Indian-Indian) friends who understand what predicament we all are in. I think we are all in the same boat (including Muslims, BTW), but many don't realize it yet.

Sometimes it has to become worse before it turns for the better.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
Do you really believe the Jews will allow themselves led into another Holocaust?


Yes - in small steps. My childrens generation will see the end of the Jewish state.

[Israelite-Tribe]

I don't want to believe it but too many Jews don't care and I AIN'T SAYING NO MOVEMENT OR SHAKING TO ANSWER TO THIS ROADMAP ... everytime something doesn't work for the muslims they shake the world and the world listens to their ... (censored)

Maybe this forum should go one step further instead of just debating and talking online , go in real life to debate then organize and create parties and screw all those who wanna screw us Jews.... anyways I'm tired of this I got not more ideas the only day that I'll actually feel as if I'm doing something to help is when I'll be in the IDF ... in one year that is... Gonna screw my whole life up just for this but it's a great cause I find... the goal in my life is not livin' large, it's securing Jews around the world and hopefully later on only in Israel cuz that's where we will all be... and oh ya I don't believe it's an occupation but yes we are in some form occupying their current houses built on OUR HOLY LAND...

[Isiah 2:4]

Would everyone please, please, please stop being so pessimistic. It is not the end of Israel by any means.

You talk of it as if it is the apocalypse...well for all you religious peeps out there, maybe it will be, but Israel will live on for eternity if the Messiah arrives. So well all be okay!!

But back to the real here and now. If, the Arabs are unrelenting in their mission to wipe out all Westernised or jewish presence in the M.E, then i do believe that a War will resume.

If it does, then Israel will be victorious. If at any time Israel looks to be in grave danger, the US will take arms. If it gets too much, then the UN and Nato wil step in. Any more than that and it will be World War Three. East Versus West. Blah blah blah, Which incidently would involve apocalytic events.... :(

However i do not think it will come to that. The Jews, the Jewish State, Israel and the IDF will neve give in. They will never be crushed. Maybe forty years ago. Not now. We are stronger. We are eternal.

We will see peace in my lifetime. ;)

[Formula]

I'm going to have to agree with Isiah for the most part...

I mean once Palestine is a real country they can't really use suicide bombs. If suicide bombs occur then Israel can actually declare war on the country...can they not?

But then again, I can see people excusing the bombers as "extremists" while the whole population continues to support them... :rolleyes:

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Formula
I'm going to have to agree with Isiah for the most part...

I mean once Palestine is a real country they can't really use suicide bombs. If suicide bombs occur then Israel can actually declare war on the country...can they not?

But then again, I can see people excusing the bombers as "extremists" while the whole population continues to support them... :rolleyes:


Of all the countries that have ever come into existence the proposed birth of the State of Palestine is certainly unusual in my opinion.

I’ve just scanned my mind and I can’t find a precedent where a chunk carved out of Jordan and a piece of from Egypt somehow ends up as a country.
Not only that the two segments don’t even meet to form a whole.

Yes Israel could declare war against Palestine at some point in the future if terrorist attacks are continuing. One difficulty that can arise however is that Palestine (I’m assuming that will be the name of the state) is that the country could form alliances.

Currently Iran and Syria are involved in supporting or at least turning a blind eye to terrorist acts against Jews in the ME and perhaps elsewhere.

Why would Israel attack Palestine some years down the road if that country engaged in supporting and/or conducting terrorist acts when it doesn’t take military action against Syria and Iran?

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
I’ve just scanned my mind and I can’t find a precedent where a chunk carved out of Jordan and a piece of from Egypt somehow ends up as a country.


Why would you call YESHA pieces of Jordan and Egypt? The area East of Jordan (75% Mandate territory) was carved exclusively for the Arabs in 1921, the 22% West of Jordan was supposed to become Jewish National Home. The Arabs resisted and the Brits conveniently changed their mind.
The fact that YESHA has been illegally occupied by Egypt and Jordan for 19 years 1948-1967 doesn't make them Egyptian or Jordanian. But since the Jews were not the occupiers, the world didn't care.

[Isiah 2:4]

Was the land that is now Jordan under the British or French Mandates, before it became a country?

If so, was that called Palestine?

[elke]

I also agree with Isaiah: we are getting far too pessimistic. I don't see Israel disappearing, although it is entirely possible that things will get worse before they get better.

This is a complex problem, which will involve a complex solution. All over this beautiful planet, among all its creatures, there is conflict. Our human problem is that we have the means to destroy ourselves, and the planet itself, in ours. However, our saving grace is that we also have the means to understand it and change.

And we are changing. The process of civilization, of taming of the human animal, that began 3500 years ago by Moses, is just that - a process. It is happening! The prevailing morality, complaints of the far right notwithstanding, is a more life-affirming form thereof than ever before! Racism as a concept is no longer acceptable, and neither is terrorism. Please note the arguments: "I don't condone terrorism, but..." Yes, the "but" is a problem still; but even so, the tide is turning. There is a method of behavior modification, used by psychologists: repeat the behavior, even if it's mechanical - e.g. smile, even when you don't feel like it, and eventually you will want to. Same thing here.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by elke
I also agree with Isaiah: we are getting far too pessimistic. I don't see Israel disappearing, although it is entirely possible that things will get worse before they get better.

This is a complex problem, which will involve a complex solution. All over this beautiful planet, among all its creatures, there is conflict. Our human problem is that we have the means to destroy ourselves, and the planet itself, in ours. However, our saving grace is that we also have the means to understand it and change.

And we are changing. The process of civilization, of taming of the human animal, that began 3500 years ago by Moses, is just that - a process. It is happening! The prevailing morality, complaints of the far right notwithstanding, is a more life-affirming form thereof than ever before! Racism as a concept is no longer acceptable, and neither is terrorism. Please note the arguments: "I don't condone terrorism, but..." Yes, the "but" is a problem still; but even so, the tide is turning. There is a method of behavior modification, used by psychologists: repeat the behavior, even if it's mechanical - e.g. smile, even when you don't feel like it, and eventually you will want to. Same thing here.

And I also agree that some IsraelForum members are too pessimistic.

No, I take that back, they aren't pessimistic, they are surrendering without a fight.

There are reasons to be optimistic. However, it's not because people are changing. One of the main reasons for the Israeli-Arab conflict is precisely because some people haven't changed in >1,400 years.

There are two reasons to be optimistic: the IDF and the US armed forces. All of Israel's Arab enemies put together, armed with the latest in stone age technology and itching to "martyr" their own children, couldn't defeat the IDF in a million years.

The US has taken down two barbaric regimes and, thankfully, seems determined not to let the ignorant inhabitants elect their favorite religious Nazis. Even better, there is talk of doing something about Iran--a country that has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Israel in the mother of all suicide attacks. We must remember, and fully appreciate, that Iran's former president publicly declared that the Muslim world should nuke Israel even if millions of Muslims will die in a counterattack. And no one in that fascist state dared to utter a word in disagreement.

The reason to be optimistic is that as long as jihad-seeking Arabs and Muslims are opposed by determined and overwhelming force, they will lose every single time. At some point the decent people will rise up and crush the Islamists that brainwash their children. We recently saw a group of Palestinians protesting against the Hamas barbarians launching rockets from their neighborhood. Hopefully, this sentiment will multiply.

[ibrodsky]

P.S.: Publicly saying "all is lost" is one of the unwisest things we can do. This is precisely the kind of thing that makes the Islamists think they are winning.

If Israel handles the "peace process" properly this time around, "Palestinian" Arabs will be forced to fight Hamas and Islamic Jihad, or they will be finally exposed as the terrorist supporters they are.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by Isiah 2:4
Was the land that is now Jordan under the British or French Mandates, before it became a country?

If so, was that called Palestine?

"Palestine" has never been a nation/country/state. British mandate over Palestine 1917-1947 encompassed today's Jordan and Israel.

[Isiah 2:4]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
"Palestine" has never been a nation/country/state. British mandate over Palestine 1917-1947 encompassed today's Jordan and Israel.

Thankyou - so my point is...Why arent the Palestinians fighting for the liberation of Amman and their 'homeland' of Jordan?

I think we all know the answer....

[Revkha]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
If Israel handles the "peace process" properly this time around, "Palestinian" Arabs will be forced to fight Hamas and Islamic Jihad, or they will be finally exposed as the terrorist supporters they are.

The exposure will come sooner than later. For Hamas and Islamic Jihad, terrorism is a cottage industry. If terrorism does not continue, they will be forced to the back pages and will be relegated to the category of "meaningless." Too much ego involved here for these two groups. They will be rendered impotent. Impotency in the Arabic world, especially where multi-wives are allowed, is demasculating.

[alexbmn]

wrong wrong AND WRONG. Israelis are very big on martyrdom.They have sacrificed 1000 of their men women and children on the altar of Oslo and they are ready for more. How else whould you explain the acceptance of the roadmap?

[Alfred]

The death of Israel started with Oslo. It was at Oslo that Israel, with open arms, brought the cancer into its body. After Oslo, it only was a matter of time before Israel would die; from the inside out.

Then came the retreat from Lebanon. That is when the Arab countries realized that Israel was a paper tiger... no longer was it to be feared. It could be beaten. Attrition was the weapon.

Now we have the situtation in which Israel is unable to ripout the cancer that is destroying it from within, and is unable to defend itself from its enemies on the outside.

It is very well armed but cannot use what it has. Its own fear of public opinion will not let it and the world is refusing to allow it.

Unless the Arabs are very stupid (which is a distinct possibility), the Arabs will bleed Israel from a thousand cuts, and Israelies will either die in place or take the escape pod to the USA.

Look for things to get really bad when Europeans "guarantee" Israel's survival based upon some new treaty. That is when Israelies should start looking at discount fares to New York.

[JustPat]

It may be NT and thsu some would say irrelevent, but these words seem awfully relevent in light of the "Roadmap."

For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. - 1 Thessalonians 5:3

[Adversary2Arabs]

"Isiah" are you Messianic?

"Tell The People I Am The Way". If not, you sure are hell come off as it. You actually come off as a Chrsitian Identity member or something incognito pretending to like Israel but your true self just seeps through. I hope I am wrong :).

[Adversary2Arabs]

Please - no more "New" Testament stuff :) lol

I hear it all day at school, I can't take it here.

[Isiah 2:4]

No...im not really religious at all, i just have an interest in Sacred Texts and especially Torah and the Tenakh. My quote, without a Bible to hand, is actually from Ezekiel! When the Lord says, 'Tell the people i am the Way'

I like to quote these things, and i took my name because, i hope and believe that they are Philosophical truth.

[Adversary2Arabs]

Originally posted by Isiah 2:4
No...im not really religious at all, i just have an interest in Sacred Texts and especially Torah and the Tenakh. My quote, without a Bible to hand, is actually from Ezekiel! When the Lord says, 'Tell the people i am the Way'

I like to quote these things, and i took my name because, i hope and believe that they are Philosophical truth.

All I meant is it's something jesus of Nazereth suppsoedly once said.