Where Hatred Trumps Bread: Palestine

[abu afak]

Where Hatred Trumps Bread
What does the Palestinian nation offer the world?

BY CYNTHIA OZICK
Monday, June 30, 2003


"And what rough beast, its hour come at last,
Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

--W.B. Yeats

When, some years ago, Golda Meir contentiously remarked, "There are no Palestinians," she was historically correct and evolutionally mistaken. She was right because the people who had only recently begun to take on the name "Palestinian" were ethnically and civilizationally Arab, part of what the Arabs themselves were pleased to call, with the poetic resonance of indivisibility, "the Arab Nation." Palestine, moreover, had its origin as a term of malice, the Roman invaders' way of erasing Judea by naming it after the Philistines who warred against the Jews. And like the Palestinians today, who deny the ancient reality of the Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount, the emperor Hadrian also had the distinction of reassigning the history of Jerusalem; he dubbed it Aelia Capitolina, in honor of Jupiter.


Yet at the same time Golda Meir was mistaken: She declined to recognize a growing sectarianism rooted not merely in the bitterness of contemporary politics--the Arab war against the Jews--but far more comprehensively in a particularized and developing cultism. Whether the Palestinians nowadays constitute a cult or a sect or a nation within the greater Arab world is scarcely to the point. They have become a nation in their own eyes--and, with the blessings of the road map, internationally as well. Nevertheless it is not the determination of political borders that makes a nation; a nation is defined by its traits and usages, by its heroes and aspirations--in short, by its culture.

History, in Benedetto Croce's formulation, "is about the positive and not the negative." No one can refute the truth that the Palestinians have fashioned a culture peculiarly their own--but one so steeped in the negative as to have been turned into a kind of anti-history. In order to deprive Jews of their patrimony, Palestinians have fabricated a sectarian narrative alien to commonplace knowledge. Although the Arab invasion of Palestine did not occur until the seventh century, Palestinian Arabs are declared to be, according to activist Salah Jabr, "the descendants of civilizations that have lived in this land since the Stone Age." With equal absurdity, other such deniers of Jewish patrimony claim a Canaanite bloodline. By replacing history with fantasy, the Palestinians have invented a society unlike any other, where hatred trumps bread. They have reared children unlike any other children, removed from ordinary norms and behaviors. And they have been assisted in these deviations by Arab rulers who for half a century have purposefully and pitilessly caged and stigmatized them as refugees, down to the fourth generation. Refugeeism, abetted also by the United Nations, has itself been joined to the Palestinian cult of anti-history. A people respectful of history, including its own above all, will work to fructify and invigorate life; it will not debase and vitiate it.

The salient attribute of any culture is originality and its legacies. Genius, no matter how rare, is a human universal. It sends into the world new perception and new experience, inspiring duplication: Out of Israel came monotheism, out of Greece philosophy, out of Arab civilization science and poetry, out of England the Magna Carta, out of France the Enlightenment. What has been the genius of Palestinian originality, what has been the contribution of the evolving culture of Palestinian sectarianism? On the international scene: airplane hijackings and the murder of American diplomats in the 1970s, Olympic slaughterings and shipboard murders in the 1980s. And toward the Jews of the Holy Land, beginning in the 1920s and continuing until this morning, terror, terror, terror, terror.


But the most ingeniously barbarous Palestinian societal invention, surpassing any other in imaginative novelty, is the recruiting of children to blow themselves up with the aim of destroying as many Jews as possible in the most crowded sites accessible. These are not so much acts of anti-history as they are, remarkably, instances of anti-instinct. The drive to live is inherent: The very mite crawling on this sheet as I write hastens to flee the point of my pen. The child who has been taught to die and to kill from kindergarten on, via song and slogan in praise of bloodletting, represents an inconceivable cultural ideal. And it is a cultural grotesquerie that Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantisi, a pediatrician entrusted by his vocation with the healing of children, is in fact a major recruiter of young suicide bombers. (When his wife was asked by a neighbor why her husband did not outfit his own teenage son in a bomber's vest, the good doctor instantly sent the boy abroad.)

Confronted by this orgiastic deluge of fanaticism and death, there are some who would apply the term psychopathological. But it is metaphysics, not Freud, that is at stake: the life force traduced, cultism raised to a sinister spiritualism--not because the "martyrs" are said to earn paradise, but because extraordinary transformations of humane understanding are hounded into being. A Palestinian ethos of figment and fantasy has successfully infiltrated the West, particularly among intellectuals, who are always seduced by novelty. We live now with an anti-history wherein cause and effect are reversed, protection against attack is equated with the brutality of attack, existential issues are demoted or ignored--"cycle of violence" obfuscations all zealously embraced by the State Department and the European Union.

The Road Map permits no contradiction to the Palestinians' emerging nationhood. But if it is teachings and usages that characterize a nation, then what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches out of Bethlehem to be born?

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003690

Ms. Ozick, a novelist, is the author of "Quarrel & Quandary: Essays" (Knopf, 2000).

[Batman]

Interesting, and she is a very good writer. I was under the impression that she was anti Israel......?, but this article speaks very clearly, sadly pointing out the reality and truths of the barbarians of our time that the world and in particular the Jews are facing. She also points out the "intellectual's" flaw of falling for what she terms 'innovation' when speaking of the suicide murdering culture. So apparantly she is clear as to the folly of Academia etc.

[jewbyc]

If the Palestinians hope to survive as a people or nation they will have turn away from violence and embrace peace. They will have to break free of the Arab nations that hold them hostage for use as a pawn against israel.

[humus_sapiens]

Originally posted by Batman
Interesting, and she is a very good writer. I was under the impression that she was anti Israel......?, but this article speaks very clearly

Are you kidding? Synthia Ozick is very much pro-Israel, and she's totally great! I've read some of her writings and heard interviews with her. Sometimes I have a feeling that this sick corrupt world will be saved by Jewish women.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Batman
Interesting, and she is a very good writer. I was under the impression that she was anti Israel......?, but this article speaks very clearly, sadly pointing out the reality and truths of the barbarians of our time that the world and in particular the Jews are facing. She also points out the "intellectual's" flaw of falling for what she terms 'innovation' when speaking of the suicide murdering culture. So apparantly she is clear as to the folly of Academia etc.

Cynthia Ozick
(1928 - )
By Joseph Lowin

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In conversation, one hears a soft, youthful tinkle, clear as a bell. Then there is the unfailing Old World politeness, the refinement of language, and a bright eagerness in the voice to share her thoughts, to hold nothing back. Yet, if the voice is poetry, the words are prophecy. One will hear this in the deep insights, the well-wrought thought, the keen incisiveness, and the sharp wit. These will come later-but they will come.

There is simultaneously something very young and something decidedly hoary about the persona of Cynthia Ozick. She herself recognizes this duality. In "The Break," a virtuoso comic performance that first appeared in the Spring 1994 issue of Antaeus, her younger self (who goes by the Hebrew name of Shoshana) solemnly announces her disengagement from the "white-haired, dewlapped, thick-waisted, thick-lensed hag" (who goes by the Greek name of Cynthia)-a writer disgustingly devoid of that hunger for success that drives great artists. What does this "seventeen-to-twenty-two-year-old" energetic, ambitious writer, who sees a whole row of luminescent novels on the horizon, have in common with this sixty-six-year-old woman who is resigned to her failures? "I would not trade places with her," shouts Shoshana, "for all the china in Teaneck."

Cynthia Ozick was born in New York City on April 17, 1928, the second of two children. She subsequently moved to the Bronx with her parents, Celia (Regelson) and William Ozick, who were the proprietors of the Park View Pharmacy in the Pelham Bay section. Her parents had come to America from the severe northwest region of Russia, More important for an insight into Ozick's temperament, they came from the Litvak [Lithuanian] Jewish tradition of that region. That is a tradition of skepticism, rationalism, and antimysticism, opposed to the exuberant emotionalism of the Hasidic community that flourished in the Galitzianer [Galician] portion of Eastern Europe. This explains, perhaps, why the Hasidic rebbe in Ozick's story "Bloodshed" is such a reasonable man, almost a Litvak. Ozick herself, she does not tire of repeating, is a misnaged, an opponent of mystic religion. In her stories, however, she wallows in mysticism......""


The rest at: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/biography/Ozick.html

[old-reb]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
Are you kidding? Synthia Ozick is very much pro-Israel, and she's totally great! I've read some of her writings and heard interviews with her. Sometimes I have a feeling that this sick corrupt world will be saved by Jewish women.

Hey, Human,


I like your nic, it says it all.
------------------------------------------

If the Arabs put down their weapons, there would be no war. If the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no Israel.

"All people, Jews or gentiles, who dare not defend themselves when they know they are in the right, who submit to punishment not because of what they have done but because of who they are, are already dead by their own decision; and whether or not they survive physically depends on chance. If circumstances are not favorable, they end up in gas chambers." (Bruno Bettelheim, FREUD'S VIENNA AND OTHER ESSAYS)

old reb

[abu afak]

Originally posted by old-reb
If the Arabs put down their weapons, there would be no war.
If the Jews put down their weapons, there would be no Israel.

A Christian Fundamentalist is a Missionary;
An Islamic Fundamentalist Kills him.

(Besides I wanted to bring the great title article up to be read again)

[andak01]

Originally posted by abu afak
A Christian Fundamentalist is a Missionary;
An Islamic Fundamentalist Kills him.


And a Jew... No. Wait a second, sounds like the beginning of a bigoted blanket statement, a piece of propaganda. How about:

And a Jew should be judged on his own individual merits despite what other Jews do. Hey, THAT would make for a better world. Ever considered following the words of Rabbi Hillel, or for that matter, Muhammad (SAW) himself?



"Do not do to others what you would not like others to do to you." Rabbi Hillel

"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man.
That is the entire law: all the rest is commentary." -Talmud, Shabbat 31a


Excerpted from The Most Beautiful Hadith.

Khalid ibn al Wald (Radi Allahu Ta'ala anhu) narrated the following hadith:

A Bedouin came one day to the Holy Prophet (sallallahu 'alahi wasallam) and said to him,

'O, Messenger of Allah! I've come to ask you a few questions about the affairs of this Life and the Hereafter.'
- 'Ask what you wish' said Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alahi wasallam).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: I want to be the best of men.
A: Do good to others and you will be the best of men.

Q: I'd like to be raised on the Day of Judgement in the light.
A: Don't wrong yourself or any other creature, and you will be raised on the Day of Judgement in the light.

Q: I'd like Allah to bestow His mercy on me.
A: If you have mercy on yourself and others, Allah will grant you mercy on the Day of Judgement.

Q: I'd like to be the most honorable man.
A: If you do not complain to any fellow creature, you will be the most honorable of men.

Q: I wish to be safe from Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgement.
A: If you do not loose your temper with any of your fellow creatures, you will be safe from the wrath of Allah on the Day of Judgement.

[Canajew]

Originally posted by abu afak
Her parents had come to America from the severe northwest region of Russia, More important for an insight into Ozick's temperament, they came from the Litvak [Lithuanian] Jewish tradition of that region. That is a tradition of skepticism, rationalism, and antimysticism, opposed to the exuberant emotionalism of the Hasidic community that flourished in the Galitzianer [Galician] portion of Eastern Europe.


this is an area where I know very little and would welcome suggestions for learning more. Where would I get a book tracing the origins and develomnets of competing philosophies in jewish historical discourse?

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Canajew
this is an area where I know very little and would welcome suggestions for learning more. Where would I get a book tracing the origins and develomnets of competing philosophies in jewish historical discourse?

I don't know Canajew, you were quoting my quote of her Bio.

It would be interesting as I had Grandparents of Differing Russian traditions, tho not Hasidic.

Perhaps she has written more about it herself.
After reading the great title article again last night
(and bringing it intentionally to the top of the section)
I Searched her name on Google .. but not in the vein you are seeking.

Perhaps there are others better versed.. and maybe you could even start a string in the Religion/Culture section, the Title of which would elicit the type of info you seek.

abu

[old-reb]

Originally posted by andak01

'O, Messenger of Allah! I've come to ask you a few questions about the affairs of this Life and the Hereafter.'
- 'Ask what you wish' said Rasulullah (sallallahu 'alahi wasallam).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: I want to be the best of men.
A: Do good to others and you will be the best of men.

Q: I'd like to be raised on the Day of Judgement in the light.
A: Don't wrong yourself or any other creature, and you will be raised on the Day of Judgement in the light.

Q: I'd like Allah to bestow His mercy on me.
A: If you have mercy on yourself and others, Allah will grant you mercy on the Day of Judgement.

Q: I'd like to be the most honorable man.
A: If you do not complain to any fellow creature, you will be the most honorable of men.

Q: I wish to be safe from Allah's wrath on the Day of Judgement.
A: If you do not loose your temper with any of your fellow creatures, you will be safe from the wrath of Allah on the Day of Judgement. [/B]

I only wish this was what we could expect from Muslims. Oh! what a beautiful world. Andak, if saying it could make it so then keep saying it. Say it to your Imam. Say it to Arafat, and when the world has changed, I will say that Andak changed the world.

old reb

[MGB8]

Despite the many positives of religion, all religion has a tendency to be corrupted in the name of power - used to exclude, or to maintain people in power.

Judaism is the same, Jews haven't been so powerful as to make a global impact via religion in a long time.

In Hinduism and many eastern religions you had castes.

In Puritanism you had money = Godliness, not to mention the power of the Catholic Church.

Islam is prone to this, too, with the Koran giving more than enough foder - Mohammed's conquests, Dimhitud, Dar al'Islam, other religious figures bowing to Mohammed, and a lot of anti-Jewish language.

The Brits and French put in place dictators who used Islam's negative teachings to control the masses...brainwashing them with TV that depicts the Protocols, focuses on inciting their shame and anger so that their own lack of rights isn't expressed.

That's why the war in Iraq is so important for Islam and Arab world - to save them from themselves.

Originally posted by old-reb
I only wish this was what we could expect from Muslims. Oh! what a beautiful world. Andak, if saying it could make it so then keep saying it. Say it to your Imam. Say it to Arafat, and when the world has changed, I will say that Andak changed the world.

old reb

[Noam]

"That's why the war in Iraq is so important for Islam and Arab world - to save them from themselves. "

I thought this war was about OIL?!

[MGB8]

It was about oil, too...Saddam made the area a more unstable source of oil with his weapons and beligerency. Although now Iraq's (as opposed to the region's) oil production is less because of sabotage.

However, it was about a lot of things.

About sending a message to Arab dictatorships.

About promoting liberal ideals in the Arab world by making a democracy in a pluralistic nation like Iraq which will NEED to protect minority rights in order to stay together.

About checking Saddam's quest for WMD (I personally believe that Bush knows where they are and is saving it for the election....sneaky, but highly effective if true....)

About avenging the attempt on Bush Senior's life....


Originally posted by Noam
"That's why the war in Iraq is so important for Islam and Arab world - to save them from themselves. "

I thought this war was about OIL?!

[thisisull]

As a Jew, come what may, I know that there is only one land that will accept and protect me when the cards are down, Israel.
This is the truth for all Jews.
Still I believe there can be peace for her.

thisisull.

[abu afak]

Oozing Towards Depravity

by Lori Lowenthal Marcus
January 29, 2004

We are witnessing a new, depraved level of human morality; one in which the actors and the audience abide extreme distortions of ethics and logic.

How can the heart of a mother become so misshapen that she chooses a vicious, violent death rather than nurturing her babies as they experience their first words, their first schooldays, their first crushes? How can parents complain that their child’s death didn’t result in the death of Israelis, rather than the fact that their child was enticed to kill himself?

In mid-January, Reem Salah Al-Reyashi, a middle class Gazan woman, strapped on explosives and self-detonated, shattering herself and the lives of four others.

The death of twenty-two-year-old Reem Salah Al-Reyashi raises profound questions about what it means to be human. The Palestinian leadership used Reyashi as a death bomb. That leadership incited this mother to such vicious hatred that, as she explained her actions: “It was always my wish to… knock on the doors of heaven with the skulls of Zionists.” The impetus for Reyashi’s act, as well as the result of her act, reveal only raw hatred and disregard for human, even Palestinian, life.

Feminists, where are you? Didn’t you read that Reyashi chose to end her life as a way of clearing her family honor when caught having an adulterous affair? And that the person who supplied Reyashi with the explosives belt and recruited her to become a bomb was none other than the man with whom she had an affair? And that Reyashi was driven to her detonation site by her husband, the father of the two babies who then became motherless? And that the husband and the lover were extolled for creating another bomb for the cause, while Reyashi was erased from the planet for her “sin”?...""

The rest at:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/print.php3?what=article&id=3270

[abu afak]

Bump and I may repost this again in the Israel-Arab Conflict section since the 'Road Map' and 'Peace think tank' sections are being phased out.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak
But the most ingeniously barbarous Palestinian societal invention, surpassing any other in imaginative novelty, is the recruiting of children to blow themselves up with the aim of destroying as many Jews as possible in the most crowded sites accessible.


Interesting article. But this suicide attack business isn't merely something from Palestinian society - it's in the larger Arab world.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Ahava
Interesting article. But this suicide attack business isn't merely something from Palestinian society - it's in the larger Arab world.
Pretty shallow comment considering the article.
Maybe the best I've ever read on the conflict both in insight and literacy.

And I'm sure peacelover will be consoled by the fact that you say it's Pan-Arab and not just 'Palestinian'. (You unwittingly now include several hundred million more in what was an 'unfair' condemnation of a whole people.. Nice! Don't be a defense attorney)
'Palestinian' as it applies to Arabs, is just a 1960's political term anyway. (Read the title article among many others)

Though the type of Bombing of Civilian population groups was started and executed mainly by the Palestinians and Not other Arabs.,.. until recently.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak
Pretty shallow comment considering the article.
And I'm sure peacelover will be consoled by the fact that you say it's Pan-Arab and not just 'Palestinian'. (You unwittingly now include several hundred million more in what was an 'unfair' condemnation of a whole people.. Nice!) Remember I didn't complain about the joke, I was just showing understanding for (part)Arabs who might. I've said about generalizations, that they're easily made. Plus it was *pretty* clear I didn't mean to say each and every Arab indiviual does terrorism.

'Palestinian' as it applies to Arabs, is just a 1960's political term anyway. (Read the title article among many others)
I know, but by this sentence
a nation is defined by its traits and usages, by its heroes and aspirations--in short, by its culture.
it becomes clear what the writer is aiming at: "OK, we will indeed recognize them as a people, as they have the very nice common trait of blowing people including themselves to pieces."


Though the type of Bombing of Civilian population groups was started and executed mainly by the Palestinians and Not other Arabs.,.. until recently.
I believe the Muslim Brotherhood was one of the first fundamentalist organizations set up calling for this methods?

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak

Maybe the best I've ever read on the conflict both in insight and literacy.

Definitely not. I don't think this is such an outstanding one. One article that impressed me and I found very good was written by a Dutch author, titled "J'accuse". In Dutch unfortunately for you.

[abu afak]

I guess Cannibinoids are still legal in Holland.

[Mediocrates]

I doubt anyone will EVER find any meaningful root cause for terrorism, nihilism, anarchy, hate and antisemitism nor their purported fixes in 'culture'. I'm not convinced that it is relevant. By our own admission antisemitism, antiisraelism and the other isms too are all engendered in poor squalorous Islamic Egypt and on the wealthy liberal Anglican backbenches of England too. It would appear to be 'culture' indifferent. Sure sure there are few MPs who do no more than talk smack and claim they want to be suicide bombers while the real suicide bombers come from Jenin and Ramallah but I'm not so sure that difference is that imporant. After all, once you worship death, you're going to throw life away not cherish it whether you live in the middle class of Saudi Arabia or the middle class of Surrey and Kent.

So what's the cultural connection. I submit you can't find a good one. And to be frank I don't really care what the Palestinians feel or think, culturally or whether they're happy or fullfilled or not. I don't care to discover why Brits become terrorists in training or shoe-bombers. I don't even care if they do do it; to someone else or to each other. I don't even care if all the Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq hack up each other unto the last until one of them stands on a pile of bloody skulls that reaches all the f--ck way up to Allah. I don't really care if the Saudis or the Iranians turn on the "Way-Back" machine and unspool their cultures all the way to the caliphate. All it is is just another form of revolutionary negativism that attempted to reinvent the world on a mountain of death, ignorance and hate. Just one more in the pantheon of Monomaniacally Bad Ideas. If that is their 'culture' then fine. If one out of a million or one out of 3 supports terrorism, makes no which never mind either way.

All I do care about it is whether it imperils me and mine and my Jews and my Israelis and my Americans and my relatives all over the world in a significant way. That is my strategic interest. My only interest. And I feel we should be willing to fight and die and kill and do whatever it takes in pursuit of those interests, because that is what my culture and my nation and my people do. I've never been interested in forensic anthropology to dissect the heretofore unknown reason people are terrorists. I don't care why, I only care that it is or is not a threat to me. It's a political rationale why terrorism exists and no further explanation is needed. Any leader, even a bad one could round up a mob of any given size and find a dozen suicidal maniacs who would kill innocent strangers for money, for glory, for sex, for chewing gum, because the voices in their head said so, because their dad beat them, because their mom was crack whore, because they were picked on by the other shahids at demolition school.

All that matters is how to protect yourself and your interests from it, strategically, long term. Not today or next year but 10-20 down the road. People generally act in their own self interest even if its misguided. The west needs to understand how to crush terrorism, obiterate it utterly while at the same time enticing them to do something else; anything else. Use the carrot and the stick.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak
I guess Cannibinoids are still legal in Holland.
Such an idiot!

I have no idea why you feel you have to be so hostile, I don't remember me having had a discussion with you previously, so I don't know why you're judging so quickly instead of just giving a normal answer.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Ahava
Such an idiot!

I have no idea why you feel you have to be so hostile, I don't remember me having had a discussion with you previously, so I don't know why you're judging so quickly instead of just giving a normal answer.

Exactly what I Said. An Impaired Cannibinoid user.

You don't remember our discussion of the Last few days in the Computer Virus thread!

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=5484

Amazing!

[Oh Jerusalem]

Everyone relax and have a Sisi! :rolleyes:

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak
Exactly what I Said. An Impaired Cannibinoid user.

You don't remember our discussion of the Last few days in the Computer Virus thread!

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=5484

Amazing!
Duh! I remember that. But I meant before, you don't have anything to base your attitude on. That virus thread isn't related to this one plus, still, you think you can judge that quickly? Those few posts. And not able to have a normal discussion when you feel you disagree? (maybe it'd turn out we wouldn't even disagree that much).
Ok let me judge quickly here: you're an arrogant .

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
Everyone relax and have a Sisi! :rolleyes:
Sorry, but people like abu make my blood boil.

Who do you think you are?

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Ahava
Sorry, but people like abu make my blood boil.

Who do you think you are?
OJ only pawn in game of life. :(

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
OJ only pawn in game of life. :(
OJ good.
Abu bad.
That sentence wasn't meant for you, sorry. :)

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Ahava

Ok let me judge quickly here: you're an arrogant .
Hey, that word wasn't allowed..

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Ahava
Duh! I remember that. But I meant before, you don't have anything to base your attitude on. That virus thread isn't related to this one plus, still, you think you can judge that quickly? Those few posts. And not able to have a normal discussion when you feel you disagree? (maybe it'd turn out we wouldn't even disagree that much).
Ok let me judge quickly here: you're an arrogant .
"Duh you remember that"?

I'm glad I was able to refresh your memory/sober you up.

and yes.. that was More than enough (that and having come across alot of your other mindless chit-chat here).
More than enough to judge from.

not to mention the goofy yak-yak you put up Right here in 4 of the last 5 posts.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Where hatred trumps bread:

This thread. :(

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
Where hatred trumps bread:

This thread. :(
That rhymes.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by abu afak

---load of BS ----

Yep, done with you.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
Where hatred trumps bread:

This thread. :(

another chatter box who goes through the board and slathers his name at the end of half the strings in the political section daily.
What's that 30 today? about the usual? Get a grip guy..
Do you really need to see your name in print that bad?
Some days I look at the Politcial section and see nothing but your name on every section .. and then look within and it's 2-5 strings in each one of those.
Maybe you can get Newsguy to pay you by the post...
except silly non-contribution ones like you put here.

Much better than Ahava's 2c posts tho, which never contain anything intelligent but yes/no/I like/don't like that/You, Ha ha, blah blah.

Here's a few classics just now:
Originally posted by Ahava
OJ good.
Abu bad.
That sentence wasn't meant for you, sorry. :)
Originally posted by Ahava
Hey, that word wasn't allowed..

[Kev]

Feminists, where are you? Didn’t you read that Reyashi chose to end her life as a way of clearing her family honor when caught having an adulterous affair? And that the person who supplied Reyashi with the explosives belt and recruited her to become a bomb was none other than the man with whom she had an affair? And that Reyashi was driven to her detonation site by her husband


Excellent Point!
Where are they?

Interesting article. But this suicide attack business isn't merely something from Palestinian society - it's in the larger Arab world.

I believe everyone understands that it is just a figure of speech and no one is suggesting that all Palestinians or all Arabs for that matter are terrorists.

Like you Ahava, we both live in a country where most Muslims are peaceful so we have the luxury of understanding this.
You and I most likely could easily walk though any Muslim dominated area in our own home countrys quite safely and not even have to give it a second thought.

I dont believe if I were a Jew, I'd be walking though any Palestinian dominated areas without putting my life at risk.


All I do care about it is whether it imperils me and mine and my Jews and my Israelis and my Americans and my relatives all over the world in a significant way. That is my strategic interest. My only interest. And I feel we should be willing to fight and die and kill and do whatever it takes in pursuit of those interests, because that is what my culture and my nation and my people do. I've never been interested in forensic anthropology to dissect the heretofore unknown reason people are terrorists. I don't care why, I only care that it is or is not a threat to me. It's a political rationale why terrorism exists and no further explanation is needed.

Excellent Point!
Its entirely selfish of us but stratigically and morally imperative to protect ones self, friends and family first and foremost.
Yes it is wonderful if the peopole under various regimes are safer but it is not the be all and end all for the West to consider.


I'll be posting much less until mid or end of May. So if you don't see me posting anything, that's why


No No No...........I am afraid it will be far less humourous at times without OJ posting!
Come back fasssssssssssssst ya hear?


What's that 30 today? about the usual? Get a grip guy..Do you really need to see your name in print that bad?
Some days I look at the Politcial section and see nothing but your name on every section .. and then look within and it's 2-5 strings in each one of those.
Maybe you can get Newsguy to pay you by the post...
except silly non-contribution ones like you put here.

Much better than Ahava's 2c posts tho, which never contain anything intelligent but yes/no/I like/don't like that/You, Ha ha, blah blah.





Uh Oh.....you are in dire need of a good spanking! :D

If I were in NYC myself, I would have to come tie ya down and spank you silly until you apologized, but I am afraid you might enjoy it far too much and never say you were sorry!


:D

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by abu afak
another chatter box who goes through the board and slathers his name at the end of half the strings in the political section daily.
What's that 30 today? about the usual? Get a grip guy..
:mad: Got it! (http://www.wlcamp.org/Goose%20Files/Brass%20Knuckles.jpg) :mad:

[Mediocrates]

Why don't all of you take a time out.

[abu afak]

Originally posted by Kev

...Uh Oh.....you are in dire need of a good spanking! :D

If I were in NYC myself, I would have to come tie ya down and spank you silly until you apologized, but I am afraid you might enjoy it far too much and never say you were sorry!

:D

While I'm not into being spanked... I DEFINITELY would like you to come down here and try.
YUM!
I'll have to keep up the good work.

I guess you're upset because I way underestimated OJ's pan-category Israel Forum Spamming at 30 posts today?... it's closer to 50.

Maybe I was a little crabby this AM.
(any truthes within the posts notwithstanding)
For that.. I Do apologize.

[peacelover]

Originally posted by Ahava
Such an idiot!

I have no idea why you feel you have to be so hostile, I don't remember me having had a discussion with you previously, so I don't know why you're judging so quickly instead of just giving a normal answer.

Don't know exactly what he said cos he's on ignore, but the reason people turn hostile in their posts is because they have nothing of substance to say, and can't gain any credibility in the discussion from their arguments alone.

I mean, everyone gets worked up once in a while, but the frequency with which abu feels the need to be rude isn't really indicative of someone trained in the art of discussion.

Hopefully I'm on his ignore list (abu, if you're reading, please put me on ignore) as well so we can just come and post here without bumping into each other.

I don't like rude and agressive people, and he doesn't like Arabs, so it's best we stay out of each other's way!

[abu afak]

I was "rude" with Peacelover because she was Hostile to Isreal, Lied, and argued Disingenuously, in the Computer Virus string.
I suspect I'm on "ignore", because as here, she could never handle discussion with me anyway.
"ignore" being a convenient tool to just voice an opinion and then be immune from having to back it up.

And, having put someone on "ignore" it is Irresponsible for her to Bark in in this string without even having read the comments in it.
If you have someone on "ignore" you should have the decency to indeed "ignore"...

Lest you make an idiot of yourself for any of several reasons... ie.
Not even having read an apology immediately preceeding your post.