The Palestinian Excuse is Dead. Long Live the Palestinian Excuse.

[NewsGuy]

The Palestinian Excuse is Dead. Long Live the Palestinian Excuse.
By Michael Rand

An IsraelForum.com original article.

The scramble of Israeli Tanks and troops was closely observed by Palestinian civilians and soldiers alike. It was a sight seldom seen in the past two years since the Palestinians launched their terrorist campaign against innocent Israeli citizens. Instead of preparing to go on the attack, the IDF was readying a large scale withdrawal from cities in Gaza and the West Bank.

The American-backed road map for peace was in full swing, and as agreed, Israel was to make painful concessions, while the Palestinians' murderous Jihad raged on, with dozens of attempts to mass murder innocent Israelis.

As the Israeli army pulled back, the Palestinian rockets never missed a beat, exploding into Israeli population centers like Kfar Darom, wounding Jewish women and children. So too, the Palestinian freedom fighters continued to fire at Israeli motorists during rush-hour, while still other Arab murderers planted roadside bombs each day.

Pleasant Surprise at the White House

In Washington, the Bush White House was pleased. President Bush and Colin Powell clearly stated that the "hudna," i.e., the cease-fire promised by the Palestinian terrorist groups, was insufficient, and that those groups must be disbanded by Abu Mazen's government. But there was still cause for celebration.

After all, even while the terrorism continued unabated and Palestinian Security Chief Muhammad Dahlan refused to commit to disarming the Jihad terrorists, Israel was still willing to accept the Palestinian violations of the agreement. The Bush administration was actually caught by surprise at the extent of the violations that Ariel Sharon was willing to swallow, while still caving in to Abu Mazen's demands.

And so, while the Palestinians continued their Jihad, and the Islamic terrorists rested and regrouped for the next phase of their terrorist war, the Israeli cabinet actually began the process of releasing hundreds of dangerous Palestinian prisoners. At the same time, the U.S. began again to pump money into the corrupt Palestinians' coiffeurs to mitigate the economic damage caused by the latest round of Palestinian terrorism.

A Palestinian Success Story

Indeed, these are good times in the Palestinian-controlled territories. The terrorist groups have won, and are being handsomely rewarded for their terrorism. Yasser Arafat is victorious, as he sits in Ramallah enjoying immense popularity and forcing his puppet Abu Mazen to carry out the arch-terrorist's every whim.

The mass murderers of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and al Aqsa will all become legitimate members of the newly invigorated Palestinian army and police force. They have all but begun to rub their hands together greedily in anticipation of collecting paychecks courtesy of the American taxpayer. They also eagerly look forward to being armed with all the latest and greatest weapons they could wish for.

But below the surface lurks an interesting aspect of the artificially-granted Palestinian victory. The old familiar excuses that have worked so well for the Arabs and their anti-Semitic European allies, are now being eliminated by Israel's concessions. I am referring to the heap of excuses employed by those who hate Israel and Jews in general, to justify the mass murder of Jews at the hands of the Palestinians.

The excuse of "occupation" no longer applies, as Israeli tanks and personnel vacate the disputed territories. Likewise, the Palestinian mass murderers are being freed from Israeli custody, tearing down the excuse of imprisonment. So too, cash is flowing once again to the Palestinian economy, obliterating the excuse of poverty.

And most importantly, the Palestinian excuse of being deprived of popularly elected leaders has been eliminated, as Arafat's puppet Abu Mazen is in full control of the Palestinian people and their fate.

New Inventions are Certain

But while the Arabs' and anti-Semites' excuses are being eliminated, one underlying truth has remained unchanged. The Arabs have now come to view the so-called road map for peace simply as the most expedient way to getting rewarded for their terrorism. The basic dream of much of Arab society to ethnically cleanse the Middle East (and the entire world) of its Jewish population, still remains rock solid.

In the end, new excuses for mass murdering Jews will be invented. After all, the Arab world and their anti-Semitic allies possess amazing powers of persuasion when it comes to explaining why the Jews must be massacred.

Long after Ariel Sharon is gone, and long after the Palestinian militants have been rewarded with their own war-mongering terrorist State, there will arise new explanations for attacking the citizens of the Jewish State. Perhaps these will be as mundane as alleged insults to "the Prophet's" beard, or perhaps these new excuses will simply include an Arab need to field-test the Palestinian State's future arsenal of weapons of mass destruction.

One thing's for sure – today's excuses of so-called occupation, imprisonment of terrorist operatives, and self-inflicted economic distress will be replaced by future blood-libel that will again seek to legitimize the Palestinians' national goal murdering their Jewish neighbors.

* * *

That's my opinion. What do you think?

[L@mplighterM]

Based on the information gleaned from various news sites it was my understanding that no murderers would be released from Israeli prisons.

Will murderers be released?

The US is playing a dangerous game with the lives of Israeli citizens because you can’t start handing over weapons before it’s established who gets what (even then history has shown us that the Palestinians cant be trusted with weapons). Jerusalem is going to be a major sticking point in the negotiations towards a negotiated stalemate between the two sides. There can be no winners no matter how you toss the dice.

It has always been my opinion that the Arabs want the whole of Israel and I’ve seen nothing to change my mind.

The Bush administration is grossly underestimating the Arab mind and they have yet to learn that force is the only thing that they understand. The Arab world deals with what they consider troublemakers swiftly and without mercy. When and if parties start making negative comments against the current regime within Islam you’re either jailed or executed.

It’s impossible for me to be an optimist when it comes to establishing peace in that region.

[humus_sapiens]

Another confirmation that terrorism works, and the bloodier the better.

Here's more on this by David Perlmutter in 'Palestine' for Dummies (www.sullivan-county.com/id4/perlmutter1.htm):

...American and Russian presidents, leaders of Europe, everyone spends late nights worrying about how to give the Palestinians what they want. Who does that for the separatist Christian Blacks of Sudan--against whom oil money has financed a Muslim-executed genocide of several million in the last few decades?

We might ask more pointedly why should the Palestinians, who have no separate religion, culture, history, national identity, ethnicity, or language from other Arabs be given a homeland ahead of say, the Kurds (an independent ethnic nation for thousands of years…or for that matter many American aboriginal peoples. Likewise, David Yeagley, a professor who teaches at the University of Oklahoma and is a descendent of the Commanche war-chief Bad Eagle, commented to me, "My people existed as a separate nation before the Ottomans invaded Europe...Why aren't we getting airplay for a homeland while some thug in Jenin is a media-darling?"

The answer is a brutal one: money talks and (as Allan Dershowitz points out in his new book "terrorism works." The Palestinians are unique among the world's nation wannabes in several ways. First, they have the backing of most of the world's oil wealth and thus the industrial nations that kowtow in lust of it. The Gulf Caliphs caught on long ago that in order to preserve their own corrupt, profligate, illegal regimes they needed some perennial distraction for their ignorant masses--why not the Jews?

Nobody has ever been so calculatingly cruel before, mind you. My grandfather, for example, a Greek Christian, fought in a war with Turkey in the early Twenties. The Greeks lost the war and Turkey expelled 3,000,000 ethnic Greeks (whose ancestors had lived there since the Bronze Age). Greece, an impoverished country, did not torture their compatriots by keeping them in refugee camps: they absorbed them, the only humanitarian option possible for a humane people.

Likewise, ethnic Germans illegally expelled from Poland and the eastern territories at the end of World War II were taken in by West Germany as brothers and citizens. The iron curtain was not lined with fetid camps.

Both sets of refugees weren't happy about their fate, but when was the last time you heard about a former Ost-German hijacking a Russian plane or a displaced Ionian Greek blowing up an Ankara pizza shop?

No, the Palestinians were the best investment ever made by the Oil Sheiks and it has paid off spectacularly. (But not for the Arab people, of course. A recent report by the U.N. found that the total GDP [including oil] of the Arab world does not exceed that of Spain).

Another reason the Palestinians are on the front-burner is violence. I recall during the Gulf war a Kurdish spokesperson was asked why the world didn't concern itself with the national hopes of his people. His answer was brutally cynical and absolutely correct: "We don't commit terrorism against Europeans." The Palestinians have ignited outrage after outrage, and each time the response of the jelly-kneed world politicians is to pay more attention to them and work harder to help them with cash and diplomatic initiatives. The bloodthirsty wheel gets the grease.

Thus, terrorism pays off and is richly rewarded: His Holiness the Dalai Lama, in contrast, will die in exile because his philosophy does not allow him to consider exponential violence.

Finally, the Palestinians are an accessible cause celebre of the Left. No big deal to have your crumpets with your artsy pals in a London teahouse in the morning and then fly down for the afternoon to "express solidarity" with Arafat's brownshirts. Dynamite-throwing Palestinians are chic; Tibetan orphans are not. When was the last time you saw any "human rights" activists rush to the southern Sudan to be human shields between black Christian babies and a Muslim Sudanese army aerial bombardment?
The highlights are mine.

Of course, another reason is the same as why this "civilized" world stood by during the Holocaust: who cares, it's the Jews who gets killed, again.

[L@mplighterM]

Snip:

A tour of duty with no end in sight

As new US troops flowed into Iraq, others already in the region for several months, such as the 20,000-strong 3rd Infantry Division were retained in Iraq.

"Faced with continued resistance, Department of Defense now plans to keep a larger force in Iraq than anticipated for a period of time," Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, commander of the 3rd Infantry Division, explained in a statement to families a month ago. "I appreciate the turmoil and stress that a continued deployment has caused," he added.

The open-ended deployments in Iraq are lowering morale among some ground troops, who say constantly shifting time tables are reducing confidence in their leadership. "The way we have been treated and the continuous lies told to our families back home has devastated us all," a soldier in Iraq wrote in a letter to Congress.

Security threats, heat, harsh living conditions, and, for some soldiers, waiting and boredom have gradually eroded spirits. An estimated 9,000 troops from the 3rd Infantry Division - most deployed for at least six months and some for more than a year - have been waiting for several weeks, without a mission, to return to the United States, officers say.

In one Army unit, an officer described the mentality of troops. "They vent to anyone who will listen. They write letters, they cry, they yell. Many of them walk around looking visibly tired and depressed.... We feel like pawns in a game that we have no voice [in]."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0707/p02s01-woiq.html

I really don’t think that the soldiers are putting up with anymore than the IDF. The situation is somewhat similar to what faces Jews every day of their lives in Israel. The soldiers are armed whereas the ordinary citizen in Israel does not bear arms; still I suppose when it comes to a suicide bomber it makes no difference.

I believe that two more US servicemen were killed in Iraq today and that will continue and more likely escalate with the passing of time. The whole scenario should give the US administration the idea that there are individuals there that don’t want peace. I find that there are definite similarities between the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to what takes place in Iraq.

Arming the PA is an insane move in my opinion.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
Based on the information gleaned from various news sites it was my understanding that no murderers would be released from Israeli prisons.

First they're releasing prisoners with "no blood on their hands." This means that Palestinian violent offenders and those guilty of attempted murder, laying bombs, masterminding suicide attacks, recruiting and training terrorists, etc. will be released in the first phase.

But historically, Israel is then forced to release Palestinian mass murderers. That, after all, is one of the most important goals of the Palestinian terror authority -- regroup and get the most vicious violent terrorists back on the ground.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by humus_sapiens
The Palestinians have ignited outrage after outrage, and each time the response of the jelly-kneed world politicians is to pay more attention to them and work harder to help them with cash and diplomatic initiatives. The bloodthirsty wheel gets the grease.

Certainly true on the case of the murderous Palestinians, although we cannot, of course, forget the contribution of the anti-Semitic Europeans to legitimize and reward Palestinian terrorism.

[L@mplighterM]

355 "Light" Prisoners to be Released; More Expected
11:52 Jul. 07, '03 / 7 Tammuz 5763


Despite the Cabinet decision yesterday to release 355 PA prisoners, sources in Hamas, Islamic Jihad and even the PA itself threaten that if Israel does not release all of the 6,000 prisoners - including murderers - the Road Map negotiations and hudna will end.

Despite the Cabinet decision yesterday that Israel will release 355 PA prisoners in the near future, sources in Hamas, Islamic Jihad and even the PA itself threaten that if Israel does not release all of the 6,000 prisoners - including murderers - the Road Map negotiations and hudna will end.

Welfare Minister Zevulun Orlev (NRP), who voted against the release yesterday, explained to Arutz-7 this morning that the close vote was not surprising: "On the original Road Map vote, only 12 ministers were in favor, while 11 were not, including 4 abstentions. The ministers are pretty equally divided regarding the Road Map and related issues - and particularly on the issue of prisoner releases, which are not even mentioned in the Road Map." Arutz-7's Emanuel Shilo asked, "If it's not mentioned, then where did it come from?"

Orlev's response: "The Prime Minister told us that in order to assure the implementation of the Road Map, we have to strengthen Abu Mazen and his government, and that this issue of releasing the prisoners will greatly strengthen them. But we said the opposite: The issue is not part of the Road Map, and Abu Mazen and Dahlan must first prove that they're taking action against the terrorists [in order to ensure that those who we release will not return to terrorism]. Defense Minister Mofaz told us last week that terrorists involved in firing mortar shells were arrested by the PA - and then quickly released, in the old revolving door policy."

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=46199

I suppose that the Israeli government can do what it wants as long as it has a mandate. I would advise against such a move without giving the consequences a lot of thought. A lot of thought!

If I was the US administration I would reconsider any demand that was placed on Israel to release these individuals. As a matter of fact a small percentage of the individuals that are scheduled to be released may very well end up in Iraq targeting US/British soldiers.

I guess that individual soldiers are just pawns that don’t really matter in the larger scope of things. So what if the odd Israeli or US soldier gets killed by released prisoners there’s plenty more where they came from in the eyes of the US administration.

When Clinton skirted around the truth (some may call it lied) in the deposition that he made in the civil lawsuit there was an outcry for impeachment. It seems that right around now there should be a Congressional inquiry as to whether Bush mislead the world when he claimed that there were WMD in Iraq.

Now it’s fine and dandy that the Iraqis were liberated, but to date the only gratitude that I’ve seen is 40 + dead American soldiers returned in body bags. The death toll will continues to increase amongst US servicemen in Iraq and it seems to me that these individuals will have died in vain, since much of the terrorist element in Iraq has most likely escaped to Syria. What happened to hot pursuit?

I see Israelis fight against Islamic terrorists and the battle that Bush is supposedly engaged in as one of the same. Why the different rules of engagement? A person would have to be blind, stupid and dumb not to recognize the similarities facing Israel and the US. Is Bush sane? I’m not certain that he’s all there in the head because the schizophrenic stance that he has taken is certainly not in the interest of the Free World.

Shortly after 9/11 I had a lot of respect for Bush but that’s long gone

[L@mplighterM]

P.A. Catches Suicide Bomber - Then Releases Her
18:18 Jul. 07, '03 / 7 Tammuz 5763



The PA reports that it thwarted an actual suicide attack in the making. The report states that an 18-year-old girl left a parting note to her family, saying that she was on her way to perpetrate a suicide attack against Israelis. The family then called the PA police, the account continues, which found the girl at the Karni Checkpoint after a hunt of a few hours, as well as her explosives belt. Israel relates "with caution" to the story, but says that it "appears accurate."

Barely had the IDF given the above evaluation when Reuters reported that the PA had already released the girl - a would-be suicide murderer - back to her home.

It will be recalled that the terrorists who fired rockets at Kfar Darom last week were arrested by the PA, and have already been released.

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=46218

[ibrodsky]

I'm not convinced Ariel Sharon is releasing terrorists. My understanding is that only about 7% of Palestinian prisoners are being considered for release, and these are largely boys under 16 years old, men over 60, and women. As I understand it, a deal was made between cabinet mmbers to support this limited release with the caveat that it will not be extended to convicted or suspected terrorists.

I wouldn't trust the Palestinians on anything--they have proved totally untrustworthy. However, I'm not convinced Israel has lost... I think it is the fact Israel was winning that made the barbarians agree to a "truce." Certainly they will violate it if given the chance, but it remains to be seen whether Sharon and Bush will drop their demand that Palestinian terrorist groups be put out of business.

If the demand to dismantle terrorist groups is quietly dropped, then we will know this is nothing but a time out for the terrorists to regroup and re-arm. I can see Bush falling for this, but it's hard to believe Sharon would fall for it.

[eyl]

Also, keep in mind that a lot of those currently slated for release are administrative prisoners; under law, they were supposed to have been released anyway in September.


Originally posted by ibrodsky
I wouldn't trust the Palestinians on anything--they have proved totally untrustworthy. However, I'm not convinced Israel has lost... I think it is the fact Israel was winning that made the barbarians agree to a "truce." Certainly they will violate it if given the chance, but it remains to be seen whether Sharon and Bush will drop their demand that Palestinian terrorist groups be put out of business.

If the demand to dismantle terrorist groups is quietly dropped, then we will know this is nothing but a time out for the terrorists to regroup and re-arm. I can see Bush falling for this, but it's hard to believe Sharon would fall for it.

Agreed - if we return to the pre-2000 pattern of ignoring PA violations (Israeli violations too, for that matter, though that concerns me less at the moment), this process will be useless.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by ibrodsky

I wouldn't trust the Palestinians on anything--they have proved totally untrustworthy. However, I'm not convinced Israel has lost... I think it is the fact Israel was winning that made the barbarians agree to a "truce." Certainly they will violate it if given the chance, but it remains to be seen whether Sharon and Bush will drop their demand that Palestinian terrorist groups be put out of business.



I think it’s a matter of the Palestinians taking what they can get and then returning for more later. The Arabs have a commodity that is lacking in the west and that’s a growing youthful population. I can’t recall what the mean age difference is between Islamic countries versus the west but it’s significant and growing daily.

There are those that say this doesn’t present a problem as long as we in the west maintain our technological advantages. Does that then mean that at some point, when we’ve reached the peak of development, our goose will be cooked. I’m certain that there’s a finite or nearly so when it comes to weapons development and when we reach that point it’ll just be a matter of time before the enemy catches up.

Israel was incorporated as a Jewish State but the Arabs have never, nor will they ever accept that. I see no peace whatsoever in the horizon and I’m certain that at some point in the future Israel will be embroiled in a bitter conflict with the Arabs once again. Even if the present administration in the WB/GS were sincere in wanting peace (I don’t believe for a second that they are), there will still be new generations that will believe that they sold out to the Jews.

Whatever support Israel had from the EU, has been greatly diminished, and will fade with the growth of the Muslim population there. Israel is and remains a small state surrounded by anti Semitic neighbors that have a daily growth of new Nazis.

I see the actions taken by Israel and speeches made by Sharon coming from desperation. Israel has been isolated more and more by nations and organizations in the world. I’m certain that Bush has threaten Sharon with sanctions and little by little Sharon has found himself running out of options.

Up to know the Palestinians demands are being met and I guess that goes to show that terrorism can be rewarding and productive. The PA was set up by Israel and that country armed them. How many Jewish lives did that cost?
I have heard and read Arabs state that the acts of killing Jewish children, women and men are acts of self-defense.

The release of prisoners is certainly not new it has been done in the past. How many Jewish lives did that cost?

Snip:

However, in 1993 the government issued a blanket amnesty for many of the 415 terrorists expelled to southern Lebanon. These former prisoners returned to the West Bank and Gaza armed with expertise after apprenticeships in Hizbullah camps on using weapons, rigging bombs, and the art of propaganda. Then from 1995-1997 Israel released about 1,100 prisoners, many of whom reestablished their connections to terrorist groups.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/PrinterFull&cid=1057464265021

I don’t expect Bush to do special favors (although he should) for Israel but I do expect him to allow that country to operate unmolested using the same standards that the US uses/used in it’s fight against terrorism.

Snip:

And where does the U.S. government stand on this issue? On both sides, actually. It finds targeted killings "unhelpful" when done by Israeli troops but "very good" when done by Americans. Thus, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher condemned Israel's September 2002 attack on Mohamed Deif: "We are against targeted killings. We are against the use of heavy weaponry in urban areas, even when it comes to people like Mohamed Deif, who have been responsible for the deaths of American citizens. We do think these people need to be brought to justice."
A few weeks after this incident, however, U.S. forces deployed an unmanned plane to drop a bomb on an al Qaeda operative, Ali Qaed Senyan al-Harthi, as he traveled by car in Yemen. A Pentagon official praised this as "a very successful tactical operation" to "keep the pressure on" al Qaeda. No talk here about bringing Harthi to justice.
When asked about the apparent contradiction, Boucher insisted that U.S. policy on Israeli targeted killings "has not changed," adding for good measure that justifications for the U.S. action in Yemen "do not necessarily apply in other circumstances."
Commenting on this particular performance, Max Boot wrote in the Weekly Standard that "whatever Richard Boucher is paid, it's not enough. His ability to advocate a nonsensical State Department line, with a straight face, time and again, is a credit to the diplomatic profession."

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/1136

[ibrodsky]

Well, there has been a suicide attackalready, killing one, the barbarians have already violated the truce.

Yet more proof that the forced transfer is the ONLY solution.

However, Sharon has said the "hudna" is not worth the paper it is printed on, and US Ambassador Kurtzer has said "disempowering Arafat" is more important than supporting Abbas.

Still, we must see what response there is, if any.

[L@mplighterM]

At the very least it’s irresponsible to arm Palestinians hoping that they’ll turn into good boys and girls. Where’s the common sense!

It was not until Bush decided to visit Africa that I understood why he wants to hammer through a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

By visiting Africa he’s certain to gain black votes at home, by appeasing the Muslims more votes will come his way(from the Muslims) and insofar as the Jews go there’ll most likely be a status quo(based on the previous Presidential election) in their votes. So currently it’s really a win win situation for Bush.

Every little bit counts said the little old lady.

So here we are in July of 2003 without a world leader that’s willing to take the bull by the horn and kick terrorist butt. I suppose one could argue that leaders in a democracy are shackled by the voters. I wonder if the Muslims see the flaw in our laws and political systems and use that against us.

I know that fighting terrorism isn’t like a poker game; the stakes are certainly a lot higher. It could be argued that a small dent has been made in Islamic terrorism and it may very well be visible under strong magnification but I don’t believe that Israel is any safer now than it was pre 9/11. For that matter I don’t think that the world is a safer place unless you’re an Iraqi Kurd, Iraqi Shiite or if you had been living under the thumb of the Taliban.

[jewbyc]

We need to force our own media into telling the truth in a even handed way

The media displace the road map's terms with those of the hudna -- an internal Palestinian deal.



HonestReporting is bewildered by recent media reports that are factually incorrect in describing the road map's most basic points. The background:


A key component of the road map is the uprooting of terror groups. The PA, however, rather than directly confront Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Fatah, cut a deal with them on the side — a hudna, or tactical ceasefire.

The hudna between the PA and terror groups sets an outrageous (and under-reported) condition for suspending Palestinian terror: Israel's "release of all prisoners and detainees, Palestinian and Arab...without condition or restriction."

Remarkably, Israel has been willing to release scores of prisoners as a goodwill gesture, and on Sunday the Israeli cabinet approved the release of an additional 300.

The PA's reaction: PA minister Abdel Razek said the PA will stop implementing the road map peace plan and will halt all negotiations with Israel if Israel doesn't release all of the Palestinian prisoners. And Radi Jarai, deputy PA minister, said "there is a hudna that has been announced and Israel has to fulfill its obligations in accordance with this agreement."

Look what's happened: The road map, accepted by both the PA and Israel to international fanfare, has been taken hostage by the hudna, an internal Palestinian deal that Israel never agreed to.

The world media, in surreal fashion, have accepted this shift, allowing Hamas to set the terms for road map progress:

--- The New York Times reported this week: "The release of Palestinian prisoners is just one of many demands placed on both sides under the Mideast peace plan, known as the road map."

Actually, the road map says absolutely nothing about release of Palestinian prisoners. Only the hudna — which Israel never agreed to — demands a prisoner release.

[The Times removed this line in a later edition, but the original edition is still in wide circulation — for example, on Yahoo News]

Comments to: letters@nytimes.com

--- Los Angeles Times: "Along with prisoner releases, the next important element in moving ahead with the 'road map' is the Palestinian demand that Israel withdraw from more of the West Bank."

Again, prisoner releases are not a part of the road map. And according to the road map, the PA's obligation to uproot terror is clearly "the next important element."

Comments to: letters@latimes.com

--- BBC: "Israeli officials say members of Hamas or Islamic Jihad are not included among those to be freed, a decision which could jeopardise the truce and threaten the entire peace process."

Note the BBC's logic: Israel's refusal to immediately release over 6,000 prisoners (many of whom are convicted murders) jeopardizes the "truce." The BBC would have us believe that Israel, therefore, is the guilty party for the possible failure of the road map.

Comments to: newsonline@bbc.co.uk

Stage One of the road map demands that the PA "arrest, disrupt, and restrain" terror groups, eliminating their influence. How have those same terror groups not only wrestled control of the PA's negotiations, but convinced the media that their outrageous demands are actually integral to the roadmap?!

Associated Press twists the truth a complete 180 degrees, presenting the basic tenets of the road map as some kind of Israeli-American subplot:

"Beyond policing the truce, Israel and the United States want the Palestinians to disarm and dismantle extremist groups... "

Israel and the United States? The road map is authored by the Quartet of the US, EU, UN and Russia. Abu Mazen and the PA agreed and committed to these terms. No, it is not just "Israel and the United States [who] want the Palestinians to disarm and dismantle extremist groups."

Comments to: feedback@ap.org

HonestReporting encourages members to monitor their local media for distortion of the agreed terms of the road map, and the trend to hold Israel responsible for internal Palestinian agreements.

Thank you for your ongoing involvement in the battle against media bias.

HonestReporting.com

[L@mplighterM]

ROADMAP PART I

A Performance-Based Roadmap to a Permanent Two-State Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict


The following is a performance-based and goal-driven roadmap, with clear phases, timelines, target dates, and benchmarks aiming at progress through reciprocal steps by the two parties in the political, security, economic, humanitarian, and institution-building fields, under the auspices of the Quartet [the United States, European Union, United Nations, and Russia]. The destination is a final and comprehensive settlement of the Israel-Palestinian conflict by 2005, as presented in President Bush’s speech of 24 June, and welcomed by the EU, Russia and the UN in the 16 July and 17 September Quartet Ministerial statements.

A two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will only be achieved through an end to violence and terrorism, when the Palestinian people have a leadership acting decisively against terror and willing and able to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty, and through Israel’s readiness to do what is necessary for a democratic Palestinian state to be established, and a clear, unambiguous acceptance by both parties of the goal of a negotiated settlement as described below. The Quartet will assist and facilitate implementation of the plan, starting in Phase I, including direct discussions between the parties as required. The plan establishes a realistic timeline for implementation. However, as a performance-based plan, progress will require and depend upon the good faith efforts of the parties, and their compliance with each of the obligations outlined below. Should the parties perform their obligations rapidly, progress within and through the phases may come sooner than indicated in the plan. Non-compliance with obligations will impede progress.

A settlement, negotiated between the parties, will result in the emergence of an independent, democratic, and viable Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbors. The settlement will resolve the Israel-Palestinian conflict, and end the occupation that began in 1967, based on the foundations of the Madrid Conference, the principle of land for peace, UNSCRs 242, 338 and 1397, agreements previously reached by the parties, and the initiative of Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah – endorsed by the Beirut Arab League Summit – calling for acceptance of Israel as a neighbor living in peace and security, in the context of a comprehensive settlement. This initiative is a vital element of international efforts to promote a comprehensive peace on all tracks, including the Syrian-Israeli and Lebanese-Israeli tracks.

The Quartet will meet regularly at senior levels to evaluate the parties' performance on implementation of the plan. In each phase, the parties are expected to perform their obligations in parallel, unless otherwise indicated.

[L@mplighterM]

PART II

Phase I: Ending Terror And Violence, Normalizing Palestinian Life, and Building Palestinian Institutions -- Present to May 2003
In Phase I, the Palestinians immediately undertake an unconditional cessation of violence according to the steps outlined below; such action should be accompanied by supportive measures undertaken by Israel. Palestinians and Israelis resume security cooperation based on the Tenet work plan to end violence, terrorism, and incitement through restructured and effective Palestinian security services. Palestinians undertake comprehensive political reform in preparation for statehood, including drafting a Palestinian constitution, and free, fair and open elections upon the basis of those measures. Israel takes all necessary steps to help normalize Palestinian life. Israel withdraws from Palestinian areas occupied from September 28, 2000 and the two sides restore the status quo that existed at that time, as security performance and cooperation progress. Israel also freezes all settlement activity, consistent with the Mitchell report.

At the outset of Phase I:

Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire to end armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere. All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel.
Israeli leadership issues unequivocal statement affirming its commitment to the two-state vision of an independent, viable, sovereign Palestinian state living in peace and security alongside Israel, as expressed by President Bush, and calling for an immediate end to violence against Palestinians everywhere. All official Israeli institutions end incitement against Palestinians.
Security

Palestinians declare an unequivocal end to violence and terrorism and undertake visible efforts on the ground to arrest, disrupt, and restrain individuals and groups conducting and planning violent attacks on Israelis anywhere.
Rebuilt and refocused Palestinian Authority security apparatus begins sustained, targeted, and effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure. This includes commencing confiscation of illegal weapons and consolidation of security authority, free of association with terror and corruption.
GOI takes no actions undermining trust, including deportations, attacks on civilians; confiscation and/or demolition of Palestinian homes and property, as a punitive measure or to facilitate Israeli construction; destruction of Palestinian institutions and infrastructure; and other measures specified in the Tenet work plan.
Relying on existing mechanisms and on-the-ground resources, Quartet representatives begin informal monitoring and consult with the parties on establishment of a formal monitoring mechanism and its implementation.
Implementation, as previously agreed, of U.S. rebuilding, training and resumed security cooperation plan in collaboration with outside oversight board (U.S.–Egypt–Jordan). Quartet support for efforts to achieve a lasting, comprehensive cease-fire.
All Palestinian security organizations are consolidated into three services reporting to an empowered Interior Minister.
Restructured/retrained Palestinian security forces and IDF counterparts progressively resume security cooperation and other undertakings in implementation of the Tenet work plan, including regular senior-level meetings, with the participation of U.S. security officials.
Arab states cut off public and private funding and all other forms of support for groups supporting and engaging in violence and terror.
All donors providing budgetary support for the Palestinians channel these funds through the Palestinian Ministry of Finance's Single Treasury Account.
As comprehensive security performance moves forward, IDF withdraws progressively from areas occupied since September 28, 2000 and the two sides restore the status quo that existed prior to September 28, 2000. Palestinian security forces redeploy to areas vacated by IDF.
Palestinian Institution-Building

Immediate action on credible process to produce draft constitution for Palestinian statehood. As rapidly as possible, constitutional committee circulates draft Palestinian constitution, based on strong parliamentary democracy and cabinet with empowered prime minister, for public comment/debate. Constitutional committee proposes draft document for submission after elections for approval by appropriate Palestinian institutions.
Appointment of interim prime minister or cabinet with empowered executive authority/decision-making body.
GOI fully facilitates travel of Palestinian officials for PLC and Cabinet sessions, internationally supervised security retraining, electoral and other reform activity, and other supportive measures related to the reform efforts.
Continued appointment of Palestinian ministers empowered to undertake fundamental reform. Completion of further steps to achieve genuine separation of powers, including any necessary Palestinian legal reforms for this purpose.
Establishment of independent Palestinian election commission. PLC reviews and revises election law.
Palestinian performance on judicial, administrative, and economic benchmarks, as established by the International Task Force on Palestinian Reform.
As early as possible, and based upon the above measures and in the context of open debate and transparent candidate selection/electoral campaign based on a free, multi-party process, Palestinians hold free, open, and fair elections.
GOI facilitates Task Force election assistance, registration of voters, movement of candidates and voting officials. Support for NGOs involved in the election process.
GOI reopens Palestinian Chamber of Commerce and other closed Palestinian institutions in East Jerusalem based on a commitment that these institutions operate strictly in accordance with prior agreements between the parties.
Humanitarian Response

Israel takes measures to improve the humanitarian situation. Israel and Palestinians implement in full all recommendations of the Bertini report to improve humanitarian conditions, lifting curfews and easing restrictions on movement of persons and goods, and allowing full, safe, and unfettered access of international and humanitarian personnel.
AHLC reviews the humanitarian situation and prospects for economic development in the West Bank and Gaza and launches a major donor assistance effort, including to the reform effort.
GOI and PA continue revenue clearance process and transfer of funds, including arrears, in accordance with agreed, transparent monitoring mechanism.
Civil Society

Continued donor support, including increased funding through PVOs/NGOs, for people to people programs, private sector development and civil society initiatives.
Settlements

GOI immediately dismantles settlement outposts erected since March 2001.
Consistent with the Mitchell Report, GOI freezes all settlement activity (including natural growth of settlements).

[L@mplighterM]

PART III


Phase II: Transition -- June 2003-December 2003
In the second phase, efforts are focused on the option of creating an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders and attributes of sovereignty, based on the new constitution, as a way station to a permanent status settlement. As has been noted, this goal can be achieved when the Palestinian people have a leadership acting decisively against terror, willing and able to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty. With such a leadership, reformed civil institutions and security structures, the Palestinians will have the active support of the Quartet and the broader international community in establishing an independent, viable, state.

Progress into Phase II will be based upon the consensus judgment of the Quartet of whether conditions are appropriate to proceed, taking into account performance of both parties. Furthering and sustaining efforts to normalize Palestinian lives and build Palestinian institutions, Phase II starts after Palestinian elections and ends with possible creation of an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders in 2003. Its primary goals are continued comprehensive security performance and effective security cooperation, continued normalization of Palestinian life and institution-building, further building on and sustaining of the goals outlined in Phase I, ratification of a democratic Palestinian constitution, formal establishment of office of prime minister, consolidation of political reform, and the creation of a Palestinian state with provisional borders.

International Conference: Convened by the Quartet, in consultation with the parties, immediately after the successful conclusion of Palestinian elections, to support Palestinian economic recovery and launch a process, leading to establishment of an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders.
Such a meeting would be inclusive, based on the goal of a comprehensive Middle East peace (including between Israel and Syria, and Israel and Lebanon), and based on the principles described in the preamble to this document.
Arab states restore pre-intifada links to Israel (trade offices, etc.).
Revival of multilateral engagement on issues including regional water resources, environment, economic development, refugees, and arms control issues.
New constitution for democratic, independent Palestinian state is finalized and approved by appropriate Palestinian institutions. Further elections, if required, should follow approval of the new constitution.
Empowered reform cabinet with office of prime minister formally established, consistent with draft constitution.
Continued comprehensive security performance, including effective security cooperation on the bases laid out in Phase I.
Creation of an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders through a process of Israeli-Palestinian engagement, launched by the international conference. As part of this process, implementation of prior agreements, to enhance maximum territorial contiguity, including further action on settlements in conjunction with establishment of a Palestinian state with provisional borders.
Enhanced international role in monitoring transition, with the active, sustained, and operational support of the Quartet.
Quartet members promote international recognition of Palestinian state, including possible UN membership.

[L@mplighterM]

PART IV

Phase III: Permanent Status Agreement and End of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict -- 2004 – 2005
Progress into Phase III, based on consensus judgment of Quartet, and taking into account actions of both parties and Quartet monitoring. Phase III objectives are consolidation of reform and stabilization of Palestinian institutions, sustained, effective Palestinian security performance, and Israeli-Palestinian negotiations aimed at a permanent status agreement in 2005.

Second International Conference: Convened by Quartet, in consultation with the parties, at beginning of 2004 to endorse agreement reached on an independent Palestinian state with provisional borders and formally to launch a process with the active, sustained, and operational support of the Quartet, leading to a final, permanent status resolution in 2005, including on borders, Jerusalem, refugees, settlements; and, to support progress toward a comprehensive Middle East settlement between Israel and Lebanon and Israel and Syria, to be achieved as soon as possible.
Continued comprehensive, effective progress on the reform agenda laid out by the Task Force in preparation for final status agreement.
Continued sustained and effective security performance, and sustained, effective security cooperation on the bases laid out in Phase I.
International efforts to facilitate reform and stabilize Palestinian institutions and the Palestinian economy, in preparation for final status agreement.
Parties reach final and comprehensive permanent status agreement that ends the Israel-Palestinian conflict in 2005, through a settlement negotiated between the parties based on UNSCR 242, 338, and 1397, that ends the occupation that began in 1967, and includes an agreed, just, fair, and realistic solution to the refugee issue, and a negotiated resolution on the status of Jerusalem that takes into account the political and religious concerns of both sides, and protects the religious interests of Jews, Christians, and Muslims worldwide, and fulfills the vision of two states, Israel and sovereign, independent, democratic and viable Palestine, living side-by-side in peace and security.
Arab state acceptance of full normal relations with Israel and security for all the states of the region in the context of a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
I'm not convinced Ariel Sharon is releasing terrorists. My understanding is that only about 7% of Palestinian prisoners are being considered for release, and these are largely boys under 16 years old, men over 60, and women.

You're right about the percentage, but the criteria set by the GSS only bars releasing Palestinians with "Blood on their hands." This opens the door to release Palestinians who carried out violent acts against Israelis. In fact, just yesterday Sharon was quoted in the Israeli press as saying "We will be forced to release terrorists." Keep in mind that the release of Palestinian prisoners is to take place in stages.

Not only is it bad enough to think that Israel will release this batch of violent and dangerous Arabs, but I'd be willing to bet that, just like after Oslo, actual Palestinian mass murderers will be set free soon enough.


"it remains to be seen whether Sharon and Bush will drop their demand that Palestinian terrorist groups be put out of business."

Unfortunately, it looks like that demand has been dropped already. Both Abbas and Dahlan have declared that they will not dismantle terrorist groups as required under the road map plan. And still, Israeli concessions and American financial rewards for the Palestinians are proceeding full steam.

[L@mplighterM]

I posted a copy of the roadmap and as far as I’m concerned there have been so many violations that it should be considered dead and gone. I do realize that it’s not in anyones interest to continue on the same path. The fact of the matter is that there are bad people in this world that do not seek peace, they never will.

I know that I’m just an outsider looking in on a situation and I’m not the one that’s subjected to terrorist attacks. A good friend of mine will be visiting Israel later this month to do some volunteer work and I wish her a safe return. My wife wanted to visit Israel but she opted to Holliday somewhere far away from from the dangers Israeli citizens face every day.

There’s no way that I could ever live in a place where death at the hand of terrorists are a daily reality. It’s not that I would be afraid to die I just wouldn’t be able to take the pressure.

It seems to me that terrorism has paid off for the Palestinians and that’s setting a dangerous precedent.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
You're right about the percentage, but the criteria set by the GSS only bars releasing Palestinians with "Blood on their hands." This opens the door to release Palestinians who carried out violent acts against Israelis. In fact, just yesterday Sharon was quoted in the Israeli press as saying "We will be forced to release terrorists." Keep in mind that the release of Palestinian prisoners is to take place in stages.

Not only is it bad enough to think that Israel will release this batch of violent and dangerous Arabs, but I'd be willing to bet that, just like after Oslo, actual Palestinian mass murderers will be set free soon enough.


"it remains to be seen whether Sharon and Bush will drop their demand that Palestinian terrorist groups be put out of business."

Unfortunately, it looks like that demand has been dropped already. Both Abbas and Dahlan have declared that they will not dismantle terrorist groups as required under the road map plan. And still, Israeli concessions and American financial rewards for the Palestinians are proceeding full steam.

I see reports that the US is sending the terrorist PA more money, and that Israel is being pressured to release more terrorists. So you are correct.

What I don't understand is what has happened to the so-called "neo-cons"? Even Daniel Pipes has said he thinks the administration is pretty realistic about the conflict... the implication being that the US is giving Abbas et al a chance to fight terrorism, which of course will never happen.

[L@mplighterM]

I think that the PA has demonstrated quite clearly that it skims a percentage of the top from the money that it receives in aid/grants and use it for terrorism.

So you have a man that I consider a terrorist, that has a terrorist master (Arafat) and he’s (Abbas) in charge of fighting terrorism. This would be funny if it wasn’t such a serious situation; it’s like putting a fox in charge of the hen house and expecting it not to eat hens.

How about capturing bin Laden and Hussein and putting them in charge of Homeland Security in the US?

[L@mplighterM]

Snip:

Jul. 11, 2003
Mofaz: No more pullouts until action against terror
By HERB KEINON AND DAVID RUDGE

Israel will not withdraw from additional cities until the Palestinian Authority takes concrete steps against the terrorist infrastructure in Bethlehem and the Gaza Strip areas already under their control Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz told his PA counterpart, Muhammad Dahlan, at a meeting at Erez on Thursday night.

The meeting lasted for two and a half hours with the two locked in a room alone for most of the time.

Israel is also unlikely to release any more Palestinian prisoners until Prime Minister Ariel Sharon meets with PA Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas after Sharon's return from visits abroad next week, according to Israeli officials.

According to the officials, the net assessment of the defense establishment is that the PA is currently involved in containment preventing attacks from taking place.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad also benefit from this containment policy, the official said, because they are using the tactical cease-fire (hudna) as a period to rebuild and reorganize, and they don't want Israel to have a pretext for once again going back on the offensive.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1057890995842

[L@mplighterM]

July 7, 2003 Contact: (212-481-1500)

"Israel Accepted Road Map
Only Because of U.S. Pressure"

Israeli Cabinet Minister, In U.S., Says Bush's
Road Map Plan Is "A Great Victory For Terrorists"

NEW YORK - A senior Israeli cabinet minister, meeting with Jewish leaders in New York, called the Bush administration's Road Map plan is "a great victory for terrorists," and said that the Israeli government accepted the plan "only because of the tremendous pressure that the Bush administration put on Israel."

Efraim Eitam, Israel's Minister of Infrastructure, made his remarks at a meeting of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations in New York City on Monday afternoon, July 7.

Eitam, who was a Brigadier-General in the Israeli Army prior to entering politics, said:

* Bush is pressuring Israel: "Tremendous pressure by the Bush administration is what caused the Israeli government to accept the Road Map. U.S. officials have been saying to Israel, 'Do this now' and 'Do this immediately'."

* The Road Map is a surrender to terror: "The Road Map is a pure reward for terrorism and it's even worse--it is a surrender to terrorism."

* Creating a Palestinian Arab state is victory for terrorists: "The establishment of a Palestinian state, in response to three years of Palestinian terrorism, will be the greatest victory for terrorism, and it will show terrorism everywhere that they can succeed and change history."

* The "Hudna" cease-fire allows the terrorists to rebuild: The so-called "Hudna," or temporary cease-fire by some of the terrorist groups, "simply gives the terrorist time to repair their damaged infrastructure." He added: "Under the cover of this so-called cease-fire, the terrorist groups are already greatly accelerating their production of rockets and preparing for the next round in their war to destroy Israel."

* The Road Map was formulated without consulting Israel: "The Road Map was invented by the State Department to bring about the creation of a Palestinian state. It was designed without the U.S. consulting a single important Israeli leader."

* The Road Map is more dangerous for Israel than Oslo: "The Road Map is even more dangerous than the Oslo accords, because it will create a Palestinian state that will endanger Israel."

Morton A. Klein, National President of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), who attended the meeting, said: "Minister Eitam is to be commended for telling American Jews the truth: the Road Map is a State Department invention designed to force Israel to accept a deadly Palestinian Arab terrorist state. The Road Map will undermine America's war against terrorism by creating a terrorist state and sending a message to terrorists that terrorism pays."


http://www.zoa.org/pressrel/20030707a.htm


I agree!

[L@mplighterM]

Israeli died protecting girlfriend in terror attack
By MATTHEW GUTMAN

Amir Simhon, 24, did not die in vain, said friends and family, of the third victim of terror since the unilateral declaration of the Hudna some two weeks ago.

Realizing that the knife wielding terrorist was bearing down on him and his girlfriend, the Tel Aviv city inspector, who had just received a commendation for chasing down a thief on the same boardwalk, darted in front of his girlfriend and saved her life.

The 30 cm dagger slashed into his body, but his girlfriend was spared. At first rescue teams believed she had suffered grave wounds, but her clothes were soaked with SImhon's blood, not her own. Aviv Police spokesman said that Simhon absorbed the attacker's blows with his body, ultimately collapsing on top of her.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1058240687598

[L@mplighterM]

Snip:

Last Update: 18/07/2003 21:10

U.S.: Israel not doing enough on prisoner release

By Aluf Benn and Jonathan Lis, Haaretz Correspondents and Agencies

A senior United States official said this week, in a closed conversation, that Israel has not done enough regarding Palestinian prisoner releases, and must do more on the issue. The official said that Israel must show flexibility on the subject
of prisoners “with blood on their hands,” indicating those prisoners that Israel holds responsible for Israeli casualties.


The official added that the U.S. saw no point in holding talks
with the militant Hamas organization, and that what was
needed was to dismantle it. However, if the group is
disarmed, the U.S. would not oppose dialogue, due to the
fact that its members would not be considered Hamas activists.

The official also said that the U.S. had reservations regarding Israeli plans to pass the West Bank separation east of the
settlements of Ariel and Immanuel.

Between 40 to 60 Hamas and Islamic Jihad activists are now included on the list of some 400 Palestinian prisoners Israel is considering releasing, government sources said Thursday.

They said the Shin Bet has so far come up with a list of nearly 400 prisoners, but that the work of filtering those who can be released continues, and the number could grow.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/318884.html

[NewsGuy]

As a quick follow-up to this thread, here's a report from CBS indicating that soon Israel will be forced to release Palestinian murderers currently held in Israeli prisons, as predicted earlier in this thread:

URL: http://cbsnews.cbs.com/stories/2003/07/19/world/main564064.shtml

Israel may include a few dozen jailed Islamic militants along with several hundred other Palestinian prisoners being released, an Israeli newspaper reported Friday, and the number could grow.

[..]

Among a list of 400 prisoners Israel is considering releasing are as many as 60 from Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which have dispatched scores of suicide bombers and gunmen to attack Israelis, Haaretz reported. However, the number could grow as the Shin Bet security service clears more for release.

There are other possibly contradictory statements in the article, but I am sure that this is the writing on the wall unfortunately.

I can just imagine the feelings of the Israeli families who lost loved ones in attacks committed by the Islamic terrorists about to be set free.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by NewsGuy

Israel may include a few dozen jailed Islamic militants along with several hundred other Palestinian prisoners being released, an Israeli newspaper reported Friday, and the number could grow.

[..]

Among a list of 400 prisoners Israel is considering releasing are as many as 60 from Hamas and Islamic Jihad, which have dispatched scores of suicide bombers and gunmen to attack Israelis, Haaretz reported. However, the number could grow as the Shin Bet security service clears more for release. [/news]




I don’t think that anarchy is the answer, but perhaps a general strike, if the Israeli government agrees to release hardcore criminals. I know for a fact that if it was my loved ones that had died at the hands of terrorists I could not sit still and let this happen.

This goes against the grain of civilization!

[L@mplighterM]

Snip:

Jul. 19, 2003
Will my daughter's killers be set free? By Stephen M. Flatow

As the road map unfolds, like many concerned about events in Israel I find myself once again praying for the best while preparing for the worst. However, I do so from a vantage point different from many others.

About noon on Sunday, April 9, 1995, a young man named Khalid el-Khatib sat in a van parked alongside the northbound side of the road leading to the settlement of Kfar Darom. The van was loaded with explosives. Seeing his target, the No. 36 Egged bus on the route from Ashkelon to Gush Katif, el-Khatib stepped on the gas, aimed for the side of the bus and, when he hit it, detonated the explosives in his van.

Eight died because of that attack, among them my 20-year-old daughter, Alisa, and more than 40 were wounded, some permanently.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1058624143754

It’s beginning to look like these murderous bastards will be released. Mere words can’t express the disgust that I hold for a government that agrees to release these savage hateful beasts.

If the Palestinians were sincere in wanting a lasting peace they would aid Israel in the prosecution and incarceration of these individuals.

[Mediocrates]

Seven Minutes of Peace Promotion
by Itamar Marcus
July 24, 2003

[This article originally appeared in the Jerusalem Post on July 18, 2003.]

During a Palestinian high school graduation ceremony last week the students preformed a ten minute Debka dance to the following repeating words: “With words and with a rifle we will sing... from Jerusalem to Gaza and Palestinian Shechem... Al-Bireh, Haifa, Jaffa and Ramle… The sound of a submachine gun… we will live and die, only that our homeland should return to us… I am a Palestinian… My weapon is the stone and the knife... Palestine will soon be restored… The stone and the knife will take the victory...” [July 7. 2003]

This joyous anticipation of Israel’s destruction through armed conflict at the graduation ceremony was played to hundreds of parents and students, and was broadcast on Palestinian TV. It should have brought outraged protest from Israel’s leaders and media, as continued education of Palestinian children to anticipate Israel’s destruction is all that is necessary to assure that war continues into the next generation. However, it was not even an issue in the Israeli media.

This is but one example of the great disparity between what is being reported in the Israeli press about today’s Palestinian world and what is really happening, as seen via the window of the Palestinian media. What is most striking is that the common denominator in all the Israeli media distortions is the attempt to create a perception that the PA now is sincerely promoting peace with Israel.

Last Friday’s Maariv ran a story entitled “Pizmon Chadash” - “a new refrain” - describing great changes it claimed had transpired in the Palestinian media. It wrote as “proof” of the significant changes in PA TV: “The songs praising the shahids have been silenced, and in their place is a new hit: ‘the song of peace and freedom’, which is played on PA TV nearly around the clock.” Maariv gives the impression that the PA has truly reformed and that an atmosphere of peace pervades PA TV. Unfortunately, this is nearly a total fabrication. The PA did produce a single video clip “song of peace and freedom”, but it was broadcast exactly once. Seven minutes of peace promotion - not quite “around the clock”. And those few minutes are completely overwhelmed by the continued broadcast of hate material, albeit on a smaller scale. There is certainly no peace atmosphere on PA TV.

The satisfaction expressed at the removal of shahid-glorification clips is likewise premature, and shows a lack of understanding of the Palestinian world. The PA is now running summer camps attended by thousands of children, and a dominant theme, as reported in their media, is shahid and suicide bomber adoration. This is as direct continuation of the PA educational policy for many years, teaching children to admire terrorist who killed large numbers of Israelis, by naming schools, sporting events, educational programs and institutions after those terrorists. In the past for example, Dalal Mughrabi - the terrorist who in 1978 participated in the murder of 36 Israelis and American nature photographer Gail Ruben - has a school near Hebron named for her, [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 30, 2002] a summer camp in 2001, [PA TV, August 9, 2001] a kindergarten, [Al-Ayyam, May 30, 2001] a woman’s youth course [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, January 25, 2002] and much more. Ayyat al-Akhras, the second woman suicide bomber, who struck the Kiryat Hayovel supermarket in Jerusalem, had a summer camp named for her last year. [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, August 4, 2002] In January, a soccer tournament under the auspices of the PA Ministry of Education was named for the suicide bomber who murdered 30 in the Passover Seder Massacre.

This policy is continuing this summer. The PA daily reported this week on a summer camp named for Jihad Al-Amarin, the founder of the suicide terror division of the Fatah, the Al-Aksa Martyrs’ Brigade. And to guarantee the children understand the message, the camp activities included a visit to the terrorist’s home: “Yesterday the camp’s participants went to the home of the shahid Jihad Al-Amarin, where (they were greeted by) the shahid’s wife, children and family. During the visit there were speeches praising the virtues of the shahid Jihad Al-Amarin... The shahid’s wife expressed her joy at our people’s loyalty to her husband, stating that the shahid Jihad followed a national mission. During the visit the shahid’s wife was presented with the camp’s shield.” [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 13, 2003] This was but one among tens of summer camps named for shahids.

Even a dose of incitement to murder was included just this week on PA TV. Dr Hassan Khader, founder of the Al-Quds Encyclopedia, during a hate lecture focusing on what he describes as Israel’s war against Palestinian trees, made a point of also quoting what has been a repeating theme of PA religious teaching: “Mohammed said in his Hadith: ‘The Hour [Day of Resurrection] will not arrive until you fight the Jews, [until a Jew will hide behind a rock or tree] and the rock and the tree will say: “Oh Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!”’” [PA TV July 13, 2003] This Hadith, which elevates the murder of Jews to a religious obligation, has been cited numerous times by PA leaders as mandatory in the current conflict. This week, PA TV chose to replay this old interview. Not quite “peace clips around the clock”.

So what, then, has changed in the PA media? Over the last few weeks there has been a drop in the quantity of incitement to hatred and violence on Palestinian television, but not in the quality. The message has not changed, as indicated by the Debka dance, but it is being dispensed in smaller doses. The holes in broadcasting time, that used to be filled with hours of hate clips, are being replaced by an occasional nature program, many hours of talk shows, which often include significant hate incitement, and by hours of cartoons. And a daily dose of hate clips is still included. Minutes a day, instead of hours.

If the goal is to look for technical improvements on the part of the PA in order to give them a good grade, then one might focus on the fewer hours of hate TV. However, if the goal is peace, then the celebrations of a change in PA TV are quite premature. The ideology must change. Peace must be taught. Israel must be recognized, not just in Washington, but in the PA high schools and graduation ceremonies, as well. Israel must appear on PA maps. Murder and hate education must be totally eliminated. If the goal is peace, then a few more hours of Mickey Mouse on TV just isn't going to be enough.
--------------------------------------------------------
Itamar Marcus is the director of Palestinian Media Watch.

[Communication]

Here's how it works:

1.) Hamas announces a 'hudna', but with conditions that they know in advance are completely unacceptable to Israel, and would be to any sane leader of any country (like releasing all 6000 terrorist prisoners, so they can rejoin the ranks of the terror armies that have perpetrated 18,500 attacks and caused 1,200 deaths and more than 6,000 injuries since the signing of the Oslo accords).

2.) It then declares unilateral acceptance of this one-sided 'hudna' without Israel's agreement to any of these insane conditions, and insists on
Israel's acceptance as well although Israel had no role in its formulation.

3.) It and other terror groups violate the cease-fire with 3 to 6 terror attacks daily that kill dozens and injure scores; knowing that these violations will be ignored by the media and most US leaders.

4.) Finally, when the opportunity is ripe, they announce that if Israel does not fulfill the conditions to which it never agreed, then it will be Israel's fault that the 'peace process' is not succeeding.

So now, even though Abbas and Hamas have VIOLATED ALL of the conditions of the Road Map's Phase I, failure can be blamed on Israel because Israel violates the 'hudna' by not releasing prisoners.

Although the release of prisoners is not part of the Road Map, Abbas has made it a top priority with Bush. Even though Israel has already agreed to free hundreds of prisoners with no blood on their hands, PA spokespersons insist that the release of thousands of trained, experienced, battle hardened terrorist murderers is a sine qua non for peace.

[shimshon9]

Editor's Note: Will someone give me a list of PA gestures to Israel. Or do
they keep selling the same rug (stopping violence, disarming terorists etc)
for the 50+ time since Oslo (1993). Israeli drivers often use the term
"idioot" when they encounteer bad drivers. What is the proper term for
Sharon?? Someone please let me know.]

STATEMENT FROM PM SHARON'S BUREAU - "Gestures" to PA [Sharon's 12 hour
planning horizon]
(Communicated by the Prime Minister's Media Adviser)
Friday, July 25, 2003

[IMRA: The meaning of "gesture" # 3, transfer of security responsibility for
additional cities, remains unclear since ":the decision as to which cities,
the nature of the security responsibility and the transfer timing will be
made at a meeting to be held at the beginning of next week between Defense
Minister Mofaz and Muhammad Dahlan, the PA minister responsible for security
affairs"

Until this announcement was released, Israel's frequently repeated position,
anchored in the only cabinet decision relating to the Roadmap, was that no
additional cities would be transferred to PA security control before the PA
actually proved themselves in deeds that they were taking apart the terror
infrastructure in the cities under their control. PA PM Abu Mazen has made
it clear in various statements for attribution that he has absolutely no
intention to do this. "Transfer timing" may be performance bound as well as
time bound, but stating that the decision with regards to the "timing" will
be made at a meeting between DM Mofaz and PA Min. Dahlan implies that this
is a joint negotiated decision.

Israel can certainly argue that the "joint" nature of the decision is that
if Dahlan tells Mofaz when the PA plans to finally get around to doing its
job in the Gaza Strip and Bethlehem that this will essentially set the
timing of the transfer of additional cities as long as Dahlan keeps his
word. But since this item was not explicit on this issue, Israel will
suffer again a PR loss if it sticks to its requirements and a withdrawal
date is not announced after the meeting.

So what really happened? Given Prime Minister Sharon's track record, the
odds are good that this press release reflects a 12 hour planning horizon.
The statement was designed to help Israel while PA PM Mazen meets with
President Bush. The damage this announcement may cost Israel next week when
Mofaz meets with Dahlan simply isn't relevant to PM Sharon and his team
since it is beyond their planning horizon.

It is well worth noting that not only isn't the Mofaz-Dahlan meeting within
PM Sharon's planning horizon - Sharon's own meeting with President Bush is
also beyond the 12 hour planning horizon.

It is noteworthy that while PM Sharon claims he will take no steps that
would endanger Israelis, three major security checkpoints are being removed
before a review of "the security aspects for the checkpoints' existence and
modus operandi" is concluded.]

Israel has decided on the following series of steps in order to advance the
negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority:

1. Release of prisoners: As of today, Israel has released approximately 250
Palestinian prisoners. Similarly, the Ministerial Committee on Prisoner
Affairs decided - several days ago - to approve the release of hundreds of
Palestinian prisoners and to reconvene at the beginning of August in order
to discuss changes in the criteria so as to facilitate the release of
hundreds of additional prisoners. However, Israel has made it clear that it
will not release prisoners with blood on their hands.

2. Checkpoints: Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz has ordered a review of the
overall policy on checkpoints in Judea and Samaria, as well as the security
aspects for the checkpoints' existence and modus operandi. Pending the
conclusion of this review, three main checkpoints have been removed: Between
Ramallah and Jerusalem, between Ramallah and Nablus and between Bethlehem
and Hebron. In addition, it was decided that the Nablus-Jenin route will be
opened to public transportation, and the opening of a bypass near Morag
junction in the Gaza Strip will be considered at a meeting to be held
between the two sides at the beginning of next week.

3. Transfer of security responsibility for additional cities: Israel will
transfer security responsibility for two additional cities in Judea and
Samaria. The decision as to which cities, the nature of the security
responsibility and the transfer timing will be made at a meeting to be held
at the beginning of next week between Defense Minister Mofaz and Muhammad
Dahlan, the PA minister responsible for security affairs.

4. Israel is continuing to dismantle unauthorized outposts according to a
Defense Ministry plan, the implementation of which has been assigned to the
law enforcement authorities.

5. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will consider ways to reduce - by as much as
possible - infringements by the security fence on the Palestinian population
's daily lives.

6. Israel will enact additional measures designed to ease and improve
economic conditions for the Palestinian population: The numbers of work
permits for Gaza residents will increase by 5,000. 2,500 work permits will
be issued to residents of Kalkilya. 1,000 additional work permits will be
issued to Bethlehem residents; tourists will be allowed to enter Bethlehem.
Conditions will be eased vis-a-vis the passage of goods and merchants. The
international crossing points will be open for longer hours. Etc.

7. Israel will transfer NIS 72 million to the PA from funds that have been
collected - and were being held - by the Airports Authority.

8. Negotiations have begun between officials from the State of Israel and
the PA on the expansion of joint industrial zones and improvements in their
activities, improvements in the activities of merchandise loading and
unloading terminals, and additional measures to advance trade between Israel
and the Palestinians.

9. The various Israeli-Palestinian joint committees - such as on incitement
and legal affairs - have begun working. It has also been decided to
establish a professional team to evaluate Palestinian prisoners' detention
conditions.

Israel expects the Palestinian Authority to work towards dismantling the
terrorist organizations according to the agreed-upon security plans, and
carry out the reform process in the areas of security, governance, economic
affairs, social affairs and legal affairs, in order to advance the peace
process.
--------------------------------------------
IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
Website: www.imra.org.il

[old-reb]

Hello Shimshon9,

Islam has been trying to kill the last Jew since Mohammand walked the earth.

Today they have many pressure points against Israel:
(1) constant terrorism
(2a) international pressure, they controll most of the oil everybody needs.
(2 b) Any country that will lean on Israel wins a lot of praise from Islamic countries. BBC has become puppet of Islam.

(2 c) It has been said that 9/11 was caused by our support of Israel. Message being that if you don't want terrorist attacks then help destory Israel.

World pressure is on Bush to pressure Israel. What can Sharon do but bend a little for his friend Bush.

In many ways it is a political war like Vietnam. You can't fight to win an end to the war but only to win the right to live another day.

Sharon is not stupid, he knows that Islam doesn't want peace they only want to undo the results of years of loosing war so they can start again in a better position.

old reb

[L@mplighterM]

OPINION

Israel’s Enemies Must Be Laughing
by Mark B. Kaplan
Aug. 04, '03 / 6 Av 5763



As rough-grooved as the Road Map to Peace is, a few detours have made its path even rougher. The first and most important obligation the Palestinian Authority had to accept in order for Israel to agree to the Road Map was the commitment to crack down on Palestinian terrorism against Israel. Regrettably, not only has Abu Mazen sidestepped this obligation, but he also has managed to convince President Bush that Israel should release more Palestinian prisoners.

Abu Mazen did this by securing a conditional temporary cease-fire between the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Fatah terror organizations and Israel. The conditions for the cease-fire include: Israel withdrawing from Palestinian Authority-controlled territories, ending targeted killing of wanted terrorists and releasing all the Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

I’m not quite sure how this qualifies as cracking down on terrorism. Of course, no sane person could accept this deal. Guess what… Israel has already begun releasing prisoners. Prime Minister Sharon says none of the prisoners on his release list have blood on their hands.

This temporary cease-fire, or hudna, is a gamble against all odds. The words “temporary” and “3-month” should be enough to make Israel skeptical of the deal. As US House Majority Speaker Tom DeLay said, murderers on a 90-day vacation are still murderers. Even Shimon Peres and Ehud Barak, who both made far-reaching concessions to the Palestinian Authority, have been critical of the speed and carelessness of Ariel Sharon’s handling of the Road Map.

Almost three years have passed since PA chairman Yasser Arafat turned down Barak’s more than generous offer at Camp David. Arafat could have had a Palestinian state on nearly all the land Israel captured from Jordan in 1967 as well as in the Gaza Strip. There was even a compromise on the Israeli capital of Jerusalem, something almost no one in Israel could have imagined being negotiable. Instead of jumping at the offer, Arafat abandoned the peace process, leaving both President Clinton and Prime Minister Barak dumbfounded.

Not long after the ill-fated Camp David meeting, the Palestinians declared an intifada - a violent uprising against Israel. Arafat, being the king of PR, has consistently condemned each terror attack in the foreign media. His reason has always been because of the harm it causes to the national interests of the Palestinian people (not because blowing up children is immoral). At the same time, Arafat appears in the Arab media shouting, “Jihad, Jihad, Jihad!” Yes, that is a direct quote.

Once again, Israel is embracing the hope of peace with the Palestinian Authority. Not only has Israel released Palestinian prisoners, but they have also uprooted a number of inhabited Jewish outposts on land the Sharon government may decide to trade for peace.

Among the prisoners Israel has released is Ahmed Jbarra. Jbarra is a terrorist who served 28 years of a life sentence for setting off a bomb in Jerusalem in which 14 people were murdered and scores wounded. Upon being released from prison, Jbarra traveled directly to Ramallah to meet with Yasser Arafat.

Okay, so Arafat has been declared irrelevant; however, a week after Jbarra’s release, there was a photo in the Israeli newspapers of PA Prime Minister Abu Mazen posing with Jbarra. A few days later, the Palestinian Authority announced that Arafat decided to appoint Jbarra as his special adviser for prisoners' affairs.

Now, Jbarra has appeared once again in all the Israeli newspapers. This time, the new Palestinian Authority minister was quoted saying that Palestinians should abduct Israeli soldiers and citizens whenever possible. Despite the fact that the Palestinian Authority is still the root of incitement, Israel is continuing to move forward with the implementation of the Road Map to Peace.

If Abu Mazen were serious about peace, he would declare terrorism a crime punishable by imprisonment (prisons without revolving doors). Temporary truces or hudnas don’t count. The terrorists know Israel could never agree to release all of the prisoners. We are talking about a number of mass murderers who have not even expressed remorse for their actions. When Prime Minister Sharon declares that he has released all the prisoners he can release, the terrorists will accuse Israel of violating the terms of the cease-fire and return to the volume of pre-hudna terror against Israel.

Besides, if the terrorists abandon the cease-fire, will the released prisoners agree to return to the Israeli prisons?

Why are we even talking about a cease-fire? Terrorism is cold-blooded murder.

But the terrorists say, “Don’t we have a right to resist the occupation of our land?” No, they do not have a right to resist. If the Palestinians wanted a land to call their own, they would have accepted Barak’s offer, and they would be living in peace with their Israeli cousins. The terrorists chose death rather than an independent Palestinian state.

Every civilized society has laws that prohibit the indiscriminate murder of civilians. How can you call blowing up a busload of schoolchildren moral?

I have always wanted to hear the media ask Arafat to define what he calls a “civilian”. Senior Hamas official Abdel Aziz Rantissi has said that he can condone killing Israeli children because one needs to attack an enemy any way possible. To the terrorists, no Jew is a civilian.

Terrorists in Gaza are taking advantage of the hudna by setting up camps to train more efficient suicide bombers and produce deadlier bombs. The Palestinian Authority allows these terrorist camps to operate without interference. Yet, President Bush calls Abu Mazen a man of peace.

Once again, Israel has succumbed to foreign pressure. Prime Minister Sharon continues to implement the Road Map without any solid reciprocation from the Palestinian Authority. The Palestinian Authority is taking advantage of Western naivete and strong Western beliefs in liberal democracy to manipulate the Quartet and their allies. The world fails to see that liberal democracy has no roots in Arab culture.

There is no doubt about it, Israel’s enemies must be laughing.

http://www.israelnn.com/article.php3?id=2579

[L@mplighterM]

Sbip:

Abbas cancels meeting with Sharon
Differences over release of prisoners scuttle talks
Tuesday, August 5, 2003 Posted: 1230 GMT ( 8:30 PM HKT)


JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas has canceled Wednesday's meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon because of a disagreement over the release of Palestinian prisoners, Palestinian officials said.

The Palestinians disagree with the list of prisoners that Israel has drawn up. Israel published a list Monday with the names of 349 of the 443 Palestinian prisoners scheduled to be freed Wednesday.

A Palestinian statement said: "This is a unilateral move without any coordination through the joint Israeli-Palestinian prisoners committee."

A source in Sharon's office confirmed that the meeting was postponed because the Palestinians disagreed with the prisoner list.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/08/05/sharon.abbas/index.html

[L@mplighterM]

Islamic Jihad confirms it's rearming under 'hudna'
By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF


Mohammed al-Hindi, head of Islamic Jihad in Gaza, has confirmed that the terrorist organization is rearming under the 'hudna'.

"It is natural that we strengthen ourselves during hudna," he told the The Scotsman newspaper in an interview appearing Sunday.

He suggests that other Palestinian groups follow suit.

"It is natural that the Palestinians, Fatah, the Islamic Jihad, Hamas, be ready to defend their people in the coming stages," he added.

He predicted more bloodshed unless Israel makes additional concessions.

"We are not blood lovers," he said. "We are freedom lovers, but when our people are being killed, we have to defend ourselves.

"As long as Israel does not recognise the rights of the Palestinian people, there will be more violence and more violence and Israel will be the one to be blamed and to take responsibility."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1060491339829

[Mediocrates]

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=48265

Warning: Israel Stands Alone Regarding Right of Return
Following Nabil Shaath's remarks demanding the 'right of return' to Israel for hundreds of thousands of Arabs, Israeli journalist and analyst David Bedein of the wrote why Israelis should be very concerned.

"Nabil Shaath declared," Bedein wrote, "that the US-sponsored road map mandates the right of Palestinian Arab refugees to return to villages from 1948 which have been replaced by cities, collective farms and woodlands in the present-day State of Israel. Surprisingly, Shaath was correct. All you have to do is to read the Road Map at "www.un.org/media/main/roadmap122002.html" to know that the Saudi initiative, which supports the right of return, provides the basis for the Road Map..."

"Thousands of maps recently issued and distributed by the Palestinian National Authority in Arabic and in English," Bedein writes, "provide a clear guide for Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendants to forcibly take back the 531 Arab villages lost in 1948 which have been replaced by Israeli cities, collective farms and woodlands."

Even though Shaath supposedly reversed himself the next day, Bedein and IMRA note that a widely-circulated PA press release, still found at "www.palestine-pmc.com/details.asp?cat=1&id=994", clearly states, "No condition has been set for a return [only] to an independent Palestinian state."

Where does the U.S. stand on this issue? Not with Israel. Bedein writes:
"Shimon Shiffer, Senior Diplomatic Correspondent for Israel's Yediot Acharonot newspaper, reported on May 23, 2003, two days before the Israeli government ratified the Road Map, that the Americans "rejected one of Israel's central demands, namely, that the Palestinian Arabs would agree to concede the right of return in return for Israel's recognition of a Palestinian Arab state. They also rejected Israel's demand to remove the Saudi proposal - which includes a full withdrawal to the June 4, 1967 lines and Israel's recognition of the right of return, in return for full Arab recognition of Israel - as one of the main sources of the Road Map's authority.
"Israel has requested that the US, Canada, the EU and the Scandinavian countries who are involved in Middle East negotiations issue a clear statement of opposition to the Arab demand for the 'right of return.' However, none of them will do so.
"Checking with ranking diplomats from the US, Canada, the EU and Scandinavia, I have discovered that all diplomatic missions in Israel, including the US, demand that Israel allow some refugees to return. They universally quote a recent Palestinian poll that "only 10%" of the Palestinian Arab refugees would want to return to their villages that they left in 1948.
"Well, since UNRWA counts 3.9 million people who qualify as 'Palestinian Arab refugees,' that would mean that Israel would have to absorb some 400,000 Arabs who would claim their homes and villages which are now in the heart of Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa along with hundreds of kibbutzim and moshavim.
"Israel stands alone in its position that Arab refugees and their descendants have no legal or moral right to take back their villages from 1948.
"However, the Road Map is based on precisely that presumption. Most Israelis do not know that. [This is because Israeli media over the past ten years have had] a tendency to downplay any negative prognosis of the 'peace process.' ...

[ibrodsky]

One bit of good news: it look like Israel has arrested more Palestinians than it has released. According to a report this morning, Israel arrested 34 Palestinians last night alone.

[Zamir_Etzioni]

The Palestinian Excuse is Dead. Long Live the Palestinian Excuse.
One thing's for sure – today's excuses of so-called occupation, imprisonment of terrorist operatives, and self-inflicted economic distress will be replaced by future blood-libel that will again seek to legitimize the Palestinians' national goal murdering their Jewish neighbors.

* * *

That's my opinion. What do you think?

I agree, all of what you have said is plausible.

I asked someone recently, a self proclaimed liberal, ("and proud to be")
if she felt the Israelis had been doing enough to assuage the Palestinian's feelings, and if they had, what should the world's response be if the terror continues; she said, "Well, I wonder if the Jews should really be there?"

That's what the Arabs have maintained all along, at least since the first Aliyah.
No Jewish State.

Your view predicts a bleak future for Israel and the Jews, what, in your opinion, if anything, can or should be done about the increasing ferocity of the anti-Jew and the Arabians?

[achaaban]

The Palestinian Excuse is Dead. Long Live the Palestinian Excuse.
By Michael Rand

An IsraelForum.com original article.

.............

The American-backed road map for peace was in full swing, and as agreed, Israel was to make painful concessions, while the Palestinians' murderous Jihad raged on, with dozens of attempts to mass murder innocent Israelis.


The Palestinian attacks against Israeli citizens, women, and children are deplorable, however, I find that Israeli reactions to this problem that is causing the loss of Israeli lives is somehow primitive (such as building a wall that resembles the idea of the Tower of Babylon) as If the Israelis do not actually care about the lost lives as much as they care about maintaining the occupation of the West Bank.

The answer to saving lives is simple, give the Palestinian the leftovers of the land that was given to them in the partition plan, since a good part of that land is already in Israeli hands, and the Palestinians are not even interested is asking for the implementation of resolution 181.

How could Israel help solve the problem of Global Terrorism, rather than contribute to it, when until today the Palestinians are stateless because Israel occupies Palestinian Land.

[redcake]

There was a time when the Palestinians claimed they were stateless because one by one, Lebaon, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan also "occupied their land".

israel was the only sucker that handed the Palestinians autonomous territory, and it did little to save lives, or muzzle world terrorism...on the contrary, it fused the fire, and had the direct result in furthering the death tolls.

[Mediocrates]

Although the Egyptians and Jordanians were on to something. They eliminated their own Palestinian problem by just walking away from the places they lived. It had nothing to do with peace with Israel and everything to do with shipping off their own underclass management problem. In the end it might make more sense for Israel to do much of the same. Israel should export its Palestinian terrorism problem to "Palestine".

[RoofRabbit]

The Palestinian attacks against Israeli citizens, women, and children are deplorable, however, I find that Israeli reactions to this problem that is causing the loss of Israeli lives is somehow primitive (such as building a wall that resembles the idea of the Tower of Babylon) as If the Israelis do not actually care about the lost lives as much as they care about maintaining the occupation of the West Bank.
Forgive my thoughts if I'm outta place here.

Quick note: I'm not a jew but wish I were, being opposite in mind from the rest of the world. I do believe in 100% support of Israel and it's peace.

My responce to this post: I don't really see much more Israel can do considering the pressure the other world goverments place on her. They keep forbidding Israel to do the same exact things they would themselves do to protect their own countries. As I understand it, God not only gave the "west bank" to Israel but all the way to the Euphrates river in Iraq.

[achaaban]

Forgive my thoughts if I'm outta place here.

Quick note: I'm not a jew but wish I were, being opposite in mind from the rest of the world. I do believe in 100% support of Israel and it's peace.

My responce to this post: I don't really see much more Israel can do considering the pressure the other world goverments place on her. They keep forbidding Israel to do the same exact things they would themselves do to protect their own countries. As I understand it, God not only gave the "west bank" to Israel but all the way to the Euphrates river in Iraq.

I am sticking right now to what the British gave them.

[achaaban]

There was a time when the Palestinians claimed they were stateless because one by one, Lebaon, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan also "occupied their land".



I can understand that Jordan and Egypt occupied their land. But, can you enlighten us with this piece of news, which says that Lebanon and perhaps Syria occupied Palestinian Land and when did this event happen?

[redcake]

I can understand that Jordan and Egypt occupied their land. But, can you enlighten us with this piece of news, which says that Lebanon and perhaps Syria occupied Palestinian Land and when did this event happen?

I was being facetious. None of it happened outside the minds of the PLO. The issue of borders, and land is a farce.

You seem to like arguing both sides to appear rational, and somewhat informed only to arrive at the same irrational conclusions, so you can demonize Israel.

[achaaban]

so you can demonize Israel.

What makes you so sure smart man/woman that this is what I want to do?

[Cato]

I was being facetious. None of it happened outside the minds of the PLO. The issue of borders, and land is a farce.

You seem to like arguing both sides to appear rational, and somewhat informed only to arrive at the same irrational conclusions, so you can demonize Israel.

Actually redcake it was Egypt and Jordan that occupied the Palestinian Territories following the 1948 War of Independence, not the Syrians or Lebbanese.

The Syrians and Lebbanese didn't get any land from 1948 because Egypt and Jordan claimed all land based on the fact that they had fought hardest.

[redcake]

Actually redcake it was Egypt and Jordan that occupied the Palestinian Territories following the 1948 War of Independence, not the Syrians or Lebbanese.

Uh. I was referencing the PLFP's attempted coup against Lebanon. Anyway, there was never such a thing as sovereign Palestinian territory.

[Cato]

Uh. I was referencing the PLFP's attempted coup against Lebanon. Anyway, there was never such a thing as sovereign Palestinian territory.

I know about that, the Lebbanese really weren't doing to well under Palestinian Occupation.

Also I said Palestinian territories because there was never a Palestinian State, but I have to call it something or else I would be denying that Gaza Strip and Judea and Samaria exists.

If I thought there was ever a Palestinian State I would have said Palestine not the Palestinian Territories.

[achaaban]

Actually redcake it was Egypt and Jordan that occupied the Palestinian Territories following the 1948 War of Independence, not the Syrians or Lebbanese.

The Syrians and Lebbanese didn't get any land from 1948 because Egypt and Jordan claimed all land based on the fact that they had fought hardest.

The Egyptians and the Jordanians got the land simply because this land was the West Bank and Gaza, both are land extensions to Jordan and Egypt.

[Gilgamesh]

Forgive my thoughts if I'm outta place here.

Quick note: I'm not a jew but wish I were, being opposite in mind from the rest of the world. I do believe in 100% support of Israel and it's peace.

My responce to this post: I don't really see much more Israel can do considering the pressure the other world goverments place on her. They keep forbidding Israel to do the same exact things they would themselves do to protect their own countries. As I understand it, God not only gave the "west bank" to Israel but all the way to the Euphrates river in Iraq.

Welcome to this forum, friend.
Indeed you are out of place here, but you really should not feel that way. This forum is built for your sake, our friends from around the world, and for people who wish to meet, chat and learn about Israel, Israeli politics, Jewish culture and ect... Anything from "Hot Israeli models" to religion and politics. Enjoy.

Had we wanted to speak among ourselves we would go to forums in Hebrew. like http://www.fresh.co.il Half the posters here are fluent in Hebrew as either first or second language.

I also believe in the borders of promise, and our right to reach those. I also strongly believe in my people right, the Jewish people birth right for sole ownership of the temple mount and the RE-Construction of the Temple instead of the mosque built there. (some say, converting the mosque into the Temple and consider it as a hearty gift of the Arabs to Jews).

BTW, according to our interpertation of the promise land borders, the Euphrates mentioned, is reffering to the section of the river within Syria, not Iraq. The promise land borders corralate with our King David and King Salomon (Shlomo) borders, a goal reached again only by Hashmotie Kings, a thousand years later.

What is currently under debate among Jews, is the time table. The prevalent beliefe is that both will occure at the "end of days". The exact date for the "end of days" is : "Not Yet, sorry"

Strength despite of weakness is miracle used as a proof for G-d's actions and Jewish covenant with the all mighty, is a repeated idea through out the Hebrew bible. We Jews are anciant enough to be as huge and mighty as the Chinese of Hindus, but it is never our purpose in the world.

[achaaban]

Uh. I was referencing the PLFP's attempted coup against Lebanon. Anyway, there was never such a thing as sovereign Palestinian territory.

As a matter of fact there was never something called Palestinian Sovereignty. There is Palestinian Terrorism to achieve sovereignty. However, there was Jordanian Sovereignty over the West Bank and Egyptian Sovereignty over Gaza until 1967. How could that be! And the Palestinians, in the West Bank and Gaza are still Palestinians and not Jordanian and Egyptians?

Makes me wonder, how well thought off was the peace between Israel, Egypt and Jordan. What did this peace achieve so far, when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict? was this peace responsible for generating terrorist states like Egypt, and Jordan, with terrorist Stars such as Zarqaoui and Zawahri, of course financed by Saudi Ben Laden.

[redcake]

However, there was Jordanian Sovereignty over the West Bank and Egyptian Sovereignty over Gaza until 1967. How could that be! And the Palestinians, in the West Bank and Gaza are still Palestinians and not Jordanian and Egyptians?


Very true. If we could roll back time to say the early 80's, the typical Arab of the West Bank would have been outraged if you tried to call the a Palestinian. They were defiantely "Jordanian" or "Arab". Now, you meet someone who bills themself as a Palestinian and still have to ask them where they're really from.

[achaaban]

Very true. If we could roll back time to say the early 80's, the typical Arab of the West Bank would have been outraged if you tried to call the a Palestinian. They were defiantely "Jordanian" or "Arab". Now, you meet someone who bills themself as a Palestinian and still have to ask them where they're really from.

Because your peace made them Palestinians, you were better off by keeping them Jordanians and Egyptians.

[Tova]

originally posted by Gilgamesh What is currently under debate among Jews, is the time table. The prevalent beliefe is that both will occure at the "end of days". The exact date for the "end of days" is : "Not Yet, sorry"

I believe we are in the "end of days" according to Ezekiel 38:7-9.

[Neubill]

Forgive my thoughts if I'm outta place here.

Quick note: I'm not a jew but wish I were, being opposite in mind from the rest of the world. I do believe in 100% support of Israel and it's peace.

My responce to this post: I don't really see much more Israel can do considering the pressure the other world goverments place on her. They keep forbidding Israel to do the same exact things they would themselves do to protect their own countries. As I understand it, God not only gave the "west bank" to Israel but all the way to the Euphrates river in Iraq.

This post deserves a frame. Especially in light of the recent attempts by Palestinians to disprove Jewish history in the land.

[Tova]

This post deserves a frame. Especially in light of the recent attempts by Palestinians to disprove Jewish history in the land.


The Palestians, and all Arabs for that matter, count on the world to believe their lies. As RoofRabbit said, "all the way to the Euphrates"...and then some! But, as Aachban said, I, too, would settle for what they were given in 1948.

[Tova]

We need to liven up this forum!!! Any suggestions??

[Neubill]

We need to liven up this forum!!! Any suggestions??

Name calling. Works every time. :D

[Mediocrates]

Strippers and blackjack.

[Tova]

Name calling. Works every time. :D


ROFL!!! Who do we call what? :D

[Tova]

Strippers and blackjack.

You first !!! (Strippers) :eek: