The Israely peace concept

[fair]

Israely peace concept
means occupying , swallowing and digestion of arab lands
in addition to establishing settilments in three arab countries
without resistance or struggle

If arab refused this Israeli greedy wrong policy they must be
antisematics and against god choice people because they are terrorists

[victot]

fair, i don't think that is a fair representation of the situation.

arab nations litterally control 600 times more land than jews.
israel is ultimately only concerned with having its biblical borders... they are not interested in conquest.

here, i got this from the site
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict.asp#Wars


Arab-Israeli wars
The Arab nations initiated four wars against Israel:

1948 War of Independence
1956 Sinai War
1967 Six Day War
1973 Yom Kippur War
Israel defended itself each time and won. After each war Israeli army withdrew from most of the areas it captured (see maps). This is unprecedented in World history and shows Israel's willingness to reach peace even at the risk of fighting for its very existence each time anew.

[Not Beilin]

Mr "Fair":

I've been watching your activities here on the forum and it is starting to be obvious that you have a bad habit of posting mostly stupid anti-israel and anti-semitic babble. Then you disappear maybe to post a few satanic verses from your corrupt Quran and then you claim that you have no time to respond to discussions in your own threads because you need to work to feed your children. Although you have the time to start new ridiculous threads that you have no intention of responding to.

You are like an Arab who goes out to a public park and litters, throwing trash on the ground to leave it to someone else to clean up your mess.

If you start a discussion, at least have the common courtesy to make sure to deal with it before starting yet another one.

And another thing, I'm also getting fed up with your Islamic Quran lessons on this board. This isn't Quran.com.

[L@mplighterM]

Let's say for the sake of an argument that Israel is occupying all of the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

Israel was given dominion over the country in 1948 that cannot be disputed.

If anyone should get a portion of the West Bank it should be the Jordanians. I suspect they wouldn't touch it with a 1,000,000 foot pole. In 1949 that area was under Jordanian control.

As far as the Gaza Strip goes give a portion of it to the Egyptians. I don't think they would want it. In 1949 the area was under Egyptian control and I don't hear them shouting and claiming the area today.

A map shows of 1948 shows clearly that those two areas were peppered with refugee camps. A map in 1967 shows them as occupied territories but with fewer refugee camps.

Following the partitioning of the whole area from 100 years ago until the present sure gets confusing.

I sure the hell wouldn't want it and then inherit a bunch of brainwashed psychopaths to go along with it.

The bottom line is where did the Palestinians come from and why do they have a claim to any land?

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Not Beilin
Mr "Fair":

I've been watching your activities here on the forum and it is starting to be obvious that you have a bad habit of posting mostly stupid anti-israel and anti-semitic babble. Then you disappear maybe to post a few satanic verses from your corrupt Quran and then you claim that you have no time to respond to discussions in your own threads because you need to work to feed your children. Although you have the time to start new ridiculous threads that you have no intention of responding to.

And another thing, I'm also getting fed up with your Islamic Quran lessons on this board. This isn't Quran.com.


As I mentioned before, Mr. Fair and Right defender always make the same sequence of actions:
1) Start a topic (either a couple of sentences political topic, or copied and pasted 10 pages crab of Koran).
2) People reply to them.
3) They get stuck.
4) They leave for a while then get back to start a new topic or maybe the same old one!

"Not Beilin", don't you really like the posts about Islam? It's so interesting! We learnt a lot of new things about Islam. The good thing is that I'M HERE to make sure that ONLY TRUTH is posted about Islam and Koran. And that they CAN'T TRICK US by any other crab or lies. In other words, REVEAL THE TRUE FACE OF ISLAM.

[fair]

To be fair
U must return back the pelastinian land and end occupation
End atrocities which retaliated back by palestinians
End seige and annoying of palestinians to not get them despaired
and changing them to bomb suiciders
I am realy worried about sacrifices of both pelastinians and Israelians
Iam upset because the huge numbers of killed people from both sides
End occupation like what u did in south Libanon u would not need to complain
Try to solve anything wrong or unfair u will enjoy peace
It doisn't need negotiations to withdrew
Is it deficult to withdrew from palestine land or u want peace and security beside lands

what u want exactly
Palistinians are not negros or American Indians
Do u accept anybody occupy ur home for 35 years without resistance or struggle
Before u complain .. treat and remove the the cause of complain

[Flame]

Right.... the Egyptian palestinains and the Jordanian palestinians... or is it the plastinain Jordanians and the plastinan Egyptians? (((( sorry... spelling the P word correctly is a dirty word for me)

Fair... let's be fair.... the P's have never had a nation of their own so what it to REturn? Jordan and Egypt regions are the P's how???????

Please explain this.

[L@mplighterM]

I don’t know if there’s Jews on this forum that’s naïve enough to think that if the Palestinians get the West Bank and Gaza Strip then they’ll be good little boys and girls.

In any event just how much are they entitled too if any? Are they entitled to any land? Are they a distinct group of people? Why does their leader have to lie?
It sure seems like they came there for financial gain just like flies are attracted to ____.

For one thing they haven’t lived up to UN resolutions whereas Israel has tried to do so and another thing is that they haven't acted in good faith.

[Flame]

L@mplighterM... I for one have never believed this was anything other than a way to orchestrate a way to **** over Israel... had the arab nations not begun their attacks less than 24 hours after Israel's rebirth... and all the other wars.... and the PLO terrorist organization over night becoming a humble palestinain people.... ANYHOW... this West Bank & Gaza as one state is only an excuse to use Israel as a throughfare... they will have a legitamite reason to have to ALWAYS go though Israel... and I just don't see it possible for these people who have been rasied on hysterical hate and love of violence to be very good neighbors.... and prey tell... arafat says they are a democratic "nation?" That will be a first.... yeah right. Sorry... I just don't see this new state being anything more than one more radical Jewhating arab state.... and don't see they will ever behave like humans.

Hopefull I will be proved wrong.

[ibrodsky]

The Palestinian people have embraced evil. They encourage terrorist attacks, they glorify terrorist attacks, and they celebrate terrorist attacks.

Yes, there are innocent Palestinian civilians. But at some point, when people choose terrorists as leaders, when they permit terrorism to be taught and glorified in their schools, media, and places of worship... then at that point the entire civilian population becomes at least partly to blame.

It is time to make Palestinian Arabs pay for their evil crimes. Either they do something about the terrorists in their midst, or it must be done for them. Personally, I am rapidly losing what little sympathy I had for the Palestinian Arab people. As best I can tell, their entire culture is a culture of death and destruction.

They are led by one of the world's most evil men: Yasir Arafat. He is a lifelong terrorist. He pioneered the techniques used by Osama bin Laden to massacre thousands of innocent Americans.

Arafat and his gang of suicide bombing thugs should be declared WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE.

And toss most Arab leaders in with him. Qhadafi, Assad, Saddam, the Saudis... these people are racists, they are hateful, and they are brutal dictators... every one of them.

And oh yes, let's not forget the Iranian ayatollahs. The 21st century Nazis. I feel sorry for the Iranian people, I know many of the young people hate living under a totalitarian "Islamic state," but at some point the people must rise up or answer for the evil of their leaders. The Iranian gov't, from the taking of US embassy workers hostage twenty years ago till today, has done nothing but spread militant Islam and terrorism.

The West had better wake up soon. The terrorists are not just small, isolated groups. They are widely supported in the Islamic world. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt are fertile ground for recruits. They pretend to be against terrorism, but listen closely to the words (to paraphrase): "We are against terrorism, especially the worst form of terrorism, Zionist." Of course, they accuse the victims and make excuses for the people who strap on bombs to kill women, children, and elderly.

They are not going to stop until the response is so harsh and swift that the people in their socieities who want to live like decent humans refuse to sit by passively any longer.

Sorry for the tirade, but this problem is much more serious than most people recognize.

[fair]

As usual
you escaped direct reply on my questions
and spoke generaly
Because you has no cause or plea or even excusion
Just only repeating your cracked disk .. anti sematics
when you didn't find the justifications

[Ezra]

Mr. Fair,

I have a simple question regarding your "peace" defination:

Is it a coincidence that ALWAYS immediately after each promising chance of peace talk, a palestinian terrorist attack rocks Israel? Not only that, but when Israel decides not to retaliate, ANOTHER attack occurs? … AND GUESS WHAT? A third one has just occurred..

Ha? Is this a coincidence?

DOES PALESTINIANS REALLY WANT PEACE MR. FAIR? …

I don't think so..

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by fair
U must return back the pelastinian land and end occupation
End atrocities which retaliated back by palestinians
...

Do u accept anybody occupy ur home for 35 years without resistance or struggle
Before u complain .. treat and remove the the cause of complain


ok, I think these parts of your post include the main points you're making. If I missed something in particular, please let me know.

I understand that you are saying that Arabs have the right to mass murder Jewish children in shopping malls because the Palestinians (who never in history actually had national control over the land) would like for Israel to disappear.

And if Israel refuses to disappear, then the proper solution, which you are now justifying, is to mass murder Israeli citizens and other Westerners in one big Jihad-genocide. Believe me that I understand that this is the dream of many, maybe most, people in the Muslim world.

And when you say "treat and remove the cause of the complaint," as you know, to most Arabs that means to remove the Jewish and the "Crusader" presence from Israel.

In any event, you seem to disregard the fact that since 1993 there has been a peace process, which has been destroyed time and time again by the Islamic terrorists with suicide bombings and other forms of genocide against Jews and Westerners.

You are also ignoring the fact that Israel has turned over a lot of land and also control over the day-to-day lives of the Palestinians to Arafat for many years now, and still there was no end to terrorism. On the contrary, the Palestinians used this gift of independence from Israel to construct missile factories.

And when you say that terrorism arises from desperation and lack of hope, then I ask you why is it that when there is hope of peace and the sides are in middle of peace talks, then the terrorists still do suicide bombings against civilians.

Now, If we were to remove the cause of the Arabs' misery, as you correctly say, we would need to do the following:

1. Open a full-scale war against the 40,000 PA troops

2. Remove Arafat and the other human garbage known as the Palestinian leadership, including Barghouti, Rajoub and Dahlan,

3. Then there would need to be a violent uprising in ALL Arab countries against their brutal and corrupt dictatorships and against their murderous so-called religious leadership which encourages Islamic extremism and terrorism.

To be fair, "ya saheeb," these are the only solutions to confront the causes of the problems. If these things are done, then the lives of the Arabs would be much much better. Do you deny this?

[fair]

Ezra æ NewsGuy
unfortinatly all Israeli solutions are unfair and unconvinced
Israel solution to keep and add some palestinian lands
and classify west banck to separated pieces
Israel must withdrew by couragious way from all arab lands without interfering in palestinian affairs

Iam still condemn all types of terrorists from both sides

about dictatorships of some arab countries it's non Israeli business and not plea to occupy land
regard's

[bakuda]

in response to Fair, this is a mirror post to discuss the palestinian side. I didn't want to create a whole new forum for the subject because i felt that maybe it would be a waste of space... anyway here's what i think of the subject...



...hmm... let's see... oh oh wait... there IS no palestinian peace concept. It's almost an oxymoron it sounds to me.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by fair
Iam still condemn all types of terrorists from both sides

I thought you agreed on calling such people martyrs

Your "mofti" and Sheikh of Azhar just confirmed that.. Or am I mistaken?

[fair]

Yes
they are martyrs if they died defending their homes and land
Even Israelians would do the same if they dismissed from their homes

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by fair
unfortinatly all Israeli solutions are unfair and unconvince
"All"? Every single one of them is unfair? You see, if no solution for is ever fair and cannot be implemented, then I guess the only alternative is war, right?

I get the impression that what is basically "unfair" to you is that Israel exists altogether and that Jews have the nerve to live in Israel in the first place.

Under this line of thinking, I am even more convinced that Israel needs to start an all-out war of survival and forcibly move all Palestinians into Jordan, where they can live in freedom in an independent Palestinian state as they please, with no furher interference form Israel.



"Israel must withdrew by couragious way from all arab lands without interfering in palestinian affairs"
Meaning that Israel needs to "courageously" jump into the sea, right?


"I am still condemn all types of terrorists from both sides"
You condemn all types of terrorism, EXCEPT the mass murder of Israelis, becuase your excuse for that is that the Palestinian terrorists are martyrs.


"about dictatorships of some arab countries it's non Israeli business and not plea to occupy land"
Unfortunately, the brutal and corrupt Arab dictatorships have become Israel's problem. The Israeli/Arab conflict is being artificially kept alive by the Arab regimes to divert the anger of the Arab populations, which otherwise would be directed at their own opressive governments.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by fair
Yes
they are martyrs if they died defending their homes and land
Even Israelians would do the same if they dismissed from their homes

Mr. Fair,

I think you got us all confused here. When we were talking about bombing innocent people in Malls and streets, you once said (WITH YOUR OWN WORDS) : Iam still condemn all types of terrorists from both sides (NOTE: BOTH SIDES !), then now you say : yes they are martyrs !

Please stop fooling around, in one straight answer , what do you call Palestinians that blow themselves in Malls killing women and children:

1) Martyrs
2) Terrorists

Please just choose (1) or (2) ONLY…

[L@mplighterM]

The only straight answerer you can get from most Muslims is crooked

[fair]

Our Mofty decided that

palestinians
struggling and resisting occupation inside occupied land in West banck and Ghaza are martyrs when they die
Bombing settlements also are Martyrs because settlers are invadors
Bombing inside Israel including innocents are not martyrs and convicted
This is Mofty and Azhar opinion not mine

[cerulean]

Thus, as I understand fair to say, fair's mufti thinks that it is a wonderful thing for martyrs to blow up people, including women, children, and men, in the West Bank and Gaza.

[NewsGuy]

The thing is.......
When you have 1.2 Billion people of your faith
you don't need to apologize
for the Mufti's views on murdering
a few hundred innocent women and children
who just happen to belong to a minority
religion which most of the world hates anyway.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by fair
Bombing inside Israel including innocents are not martyrs and convicted
This is Mofty and Azhar opinion not mine

Then why are there so many suicide bombings inside Israel, like in Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, etc.?

[L@mplighterM]

In France it's against the law to advocate/justify the killing of anyone. But hey I guess its only Jews we're talking about. I guess they don't count.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by fair
Our Mofty decided that

palestinians
struggling and resisting occupation inside occupied land in West banck and Ghaza are martyrs when they die
Bombing settlements also are Martyrs because settlers are invadors
Bombing inside Israel including innocents are not martyrs and convicted
This is Mofty and Azhar opinion not mine

Mr. Fair,

Would you like me to copy, paste, and translate your "Bayan Dar el-Eftaa " (announcement of the House of Eftaa) that stated in straight words that EVERY suicide bomber against Jewish regardless of where the operation was done IS A MARTYR and prove that you are lying??

Or you would like to do that by yourself?