The new anti-Semitism

[L@mplighterM]

August 23, 2003
The new anti-Semitism



By MICHAEL COREN -- Sun Media
Oh Israel. Why have the media and the left deserted you?

Many reasons. Some to do with fashion, others convenience, others pure and time-honoured hatred. Hey, man, it's hip to hate the Zionist entity, even if we're not sure exactly why.

The country has been in existence for a little over 50 years, and in that time has introduced concepts of democracy, civil rights, pluralism, religious freedom, gender equality, the rule of law, the separation of powers, a free press and the right to protest into a region that largely still does not know or accept them.

I'm always amused by western journalists who claim Israel no longer gives them free access into combat zones and sensitive areas. There is, indeed, a slight limitation now, after so many suicide bombings and so much biased reporting. But the limits are minor. And in comparison to any Arab state, Israel allows foreign reporters absolute freedom. Why so little complaint about this?

Yet if we read many newspapers and listen to so much television and radio, this tiny strip of land in an ocean of dictatorship, murderous oligarchy and religious despotism, is responsible for almost every evil in the world, including baldness, bad breath and the rain.

If only these shock hacks knew their history. The Jewish people never left Israel, even though the majority were driven out by the Romans, a genuinely cruel colonial power. Many managed to stay, and simply because Arab and Islamic imperialists eventually conquered the near east and Israel does not make this an Arab land.

Of course, some of the Arabs who had lived in Israel - known by some in those days of hiatus as Palestine - were moved out. Often because of Arab propaganda, sometimes by Jewish actions. This is undeniable. There were brutal actions on both sides. But let us remember that some years before the official formation of modern Israel, the Jews of Hebron faced a genocidal pogrom at the hands of the Arabs.

These men, women and children had lived in this city since Biblical times, long before any Arab moved into the region. But they were massacred, simply for being Jews. In the name, I suppose, of freedom and the struggle for dignity. Hard to know what a Jewish child was doing wrong when his throat was slit by an Arab gangster.

There were 600 Jews living in Hebron in 1929, most of them not even Zionists. Highly orthodox and peaceful, they refused the protection of the Jewish defence organizations and trusted their Arab neighbours would not harm them. How wrong they were. That Jews now want to return to Hebron is seen by some as being immoral.

Oh, I see. Jews should get used to being slaughtered and merely walk away.

I always find it ironic that the hysterical left, self-loathing Jews and anti-Semites scream about Zionism, when all the Jews are doing is taking back what always belonged to them in the first place. Self-loathing Jew? Oh, yes. I didn't believe it in the past, but now know it to be so. People who are shamed by their identity. Freud may have been wrong on many things, but not all.

Then there is the anti-Semitism issue. Not every anti-Zionist is a Jew-hater. But every Jew-hater is an anti-Zionist. In some ways, Israel has become the new Jew - an entity one can despise in polite company and get away with it. I meet critics of Israel all the time who are not anti-Semitic. But when one asks them why they are not more angry at any of the numerous Latin American, African or Asian states that murder, torture and rape they remain silent.

This may not be Jew-hatred, but it is at the very least lazy and selective criticism.

There are valid objections to be made of some Israeli actions and of some Israeli leaders. But if the Arab world would affirm the absolute right to existence of the Jewish state in a sea of increasingly violent and paranoid Islam, most of these problems could be dealt with.

Jews were so much easier to criticize and beat up when they lived in a diaspora, had no army and, well, knew their place. But times change. And so do people. Thank God for that.

http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html

[IndianSummer]

Hey...

ok now DON'T think i'm being sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek or anything. i really don't know...

what IS anti-semitism?

is it people looking at you different because of your religion (judaism) ? or is it race (i personally can't tell apart a jew from a european for example) or is it something to do with economic history?

what IS anti-semitism?

forgive my utter ignorance. please tell.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by IndianSummer
what IS anti-semitism?

forgive my utter ignorance. please tell.

Jewdaism is both a nation, an ethinic group and a religion.

Thousands of years ago, there was nothing out of the ordinary with an ethnic group with their own religion. However, we Jews, are the only survivors from these anciant times. History and the migration of barbarian hords in the 5th and 7th century AD, made most of the civilizations of anciant times vanish and disapear from the face of the earth. We, Jews survived the countless ages.

Jews as a seperate race
Jews are ethnicly different from white europeans. We are of another race, Semites. Although we are racialy closer to the white people more then any other human race, we are not white.

Other members of our race are the Persians, Arabs, and in lesser degrees, other nations of central asia and north Africa. Lost members of our race include the Phinicians, Asurians, Babylonians, Aramites and many lesser smaller nations. We were all evolved from the the Sumerians and Akkadians civilizations, world first civilizations. Jews origion is from the city of Ur, one of the chief city states of the Sumerians. From the Sumerians we took the name for our race: Semites. Sons of Shem, which corralates again, with the anciant Sumerians.

Even physicly speaking, we Jews are much different then Europeans: We are far prettier and smarter then them. I guess they resent us for that.

Many of the most beatiful hollywood actresses, are Jewish. (Few are Israeli: like Netaly Portman).

Jews as a culture
We Jews read and write thousands of years before european languages ever evolved. Roman alpha beith is based on the Aramaith alpha beith, that was used in OUR regions thousand of years before. Both Christian and Islamic religions is heavily based on Jewish religion and Jewish made ideas. Universal code of law, morality, notions of right and wrong and universal justace, are Jewish ideas, copied, twisted and manipulated by various streams of Christianity and Islam. Ideas, that we Jews invented thousands of years before each of these civilizations ever begoted.

Because of geography, and mutual periods of ocupation (Persian, Roman, Othoman ect... ), and links of trade, its quite safe to say that anciant European civilization (Greek and Roman) have evolved from Semite civilization, and modern European civilization have evolved under the strong impression of the lost Greek and Roman civilization and heavy Jewish influance, un top of huge soil of original pagen primitive ideas, origionaly euoropean.

Compared with Asian civilizations, it is difficult to find the differences, but be sure, my Indian friend, For us the differences are huge.

Jewdaism in few words[/n] Unlike other religions, Jews are monotheistic, (we have only one G-d), we believe in totall abstractness of G-d, (our G-d is timeless, shapeless, with no begining and no end). We belive in ideas of Absolute universal Justace. We believe G-d can not have children. All of our leaders were fully human. Only their wisdom was devine and holly. The most important text of our religion and culture is the Torah, and then the rest of the bible (old testament), and then other later texts.

[b]Anti Semetism

Anti semetism is hatered of Jews only, although there are more nation within our Semite race.

There are several kind of anti semetism: racial, religious and anti zionist.

religious anti semetism has evolved over the middle ages, as meens or result, of church control. We Jews marked as the enemies of the faith, and accuse us all, togather, in the "murder" of "god", a man they call Jesus, some two thousand years ago. Who was (allegly, if was he ever existed) executed by the Roman occupayers. A common Roman practice to preserve the peace in a key stratigily and economicly vital part of the Roman empire.

Muslems hate us Jews, basicly because we refuse to become muslems and follow their leaders.

Anti Zionism is a combination of all the above: Since Zionism is the ideology of Jewish self identity and demand of national rights, of self determination, right of self defence in the land of our ancestors, Anti Zionists seek to deny Jews, and Jews only, from such rights. Its motivated both by religion and racism, since its a from of religious persecution and racism.

Marxism denys any from of identity, religion or national. Marxist terminology often used to justify anti zionism. However, anti zionist often support the nationlistic or religious ambitions of others, world wide.

Self hating jews - FUBAR jews: Because of the enormous rejection of Jews in western and Arab cultures, to this day, many Jews tried to win trust by secrefing their Jewish haritage, history and quite often, Jewish living relatives. Jews, yarning for acceptance, and many times better lives out side persecution (or just selling more books to anti semetics, in these days). In a nut shell: Some Jews betrayed their people under false convictions they may win acceptance from non Jews anti semites, by becomeing Jewish haters themselves.

[Evgeny]

"Even physicly speaking, we Jews are much different then Europeans: We are far prettier and smarter then them. I guess they resent us for that. "

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Jews are also more sarcastic :)

Roman alphabet canme from greek dummy. Also the askenzi jews were once pagan nomads living on the Steppes of central asia!!

[Leon]

what IS anti-semitism?

forgive my utter ignorance. please tell.

Interestingly the term anti-semitism was coined by non Jews in Germany two centuries back to describe Jew hatred. Why anti-Semitism? simply becuase, (as somone mentioned) Jews are Semitic (like Arabs) - they werent anglo-saxon, celtic or slavic but desecdents of a people who came from the middle-east.

Also, as someone noted, Judiasm is not just a religion but also a ethnic identity. The Jews have always been a nation of people- and thats how they differ from say Christians or Muslims who are made up of many different nations.

This nation has its roots, history and culture in the land of Israel. When thinking of Jews, picture gypsies. Gypsies are everywhere and all can trace their roots back to India- difference is- Gypsies went into voluntary exile.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Evgeny
"Even physicly speaking, we Jews are much different then Europeans: We are far prettier and smarter then them. I guess they resent us for that. "

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Jews are also more sarcastic :)

Roman alphabet canme from greek dummy. Also the askenzi jews were once pagan nomads living on the Steppes of central asia!!

Yes, Jews ancestors were pagen nomads on the steps of central asia... some 10 thousands years ago... of course there were no Jews on the face of the earth that time. Our ancestors become a civilization some 7 thousands years ago... living in the world very first cities. Hebrews appeared only 5 thousand years ago, when the city-state of Ur was destroyed.

Your ancestors, Evgeny, were nomad in euroasia, until about a thousand years ago. (give of take a century or two). Modern Europeans arived to western Europe only 15-16 centuries ago. (with the exception of the Basks and the Celts). As for the date when you've become a civilization... its still a matter of debate... some say (you know who) that date haven't arrived yet. As for writing... Only Stalin made the Russian read and write on mass. You got your Kirilic alpha beith only few centuries ago.

That little bits of history are good for our Indian friends to put western civilizations into prespective.

Roman Alphabeith is rightfuly taken from the Greeks. The hight of the Greek culture was 6-7 century BC... roughly the time of our SECOND temple, and our returen to the land of Israel from Babylon, (under Persian emprial approval). The Greek themselves adopted the Aramite Alphabeith, used by all the people of our region. (by then, we've switched alphabeith, to the square one, you all know, although there remains a version of the original Alphabeith in modern Israel as well).

Oddly enough, just look at the word Alphabeith:
Hebrew first latter is Aleph. Greek: Alpha. Hebrew second letter is Beith (or Bett). Greek is Beta.
Gimmel - Gamma, Dalet- Delta, Hay - Epsilon, Vav- ? , Zain-Zeta ... Het - Hi (Roman X). Tet - Tow... ect...

[IndianSummer]

thanks for the info Gilgamesh and Leon. :)

i guess i know what anti-semitism is now. but it still seems pretty stupid.

india is such a huge boiling pot of races, cultures and religions that people here must have decided to not identify each other with their race, religion and origin...too much trouble keeping track of so many ethnicities i guess. lol. by and large.

i read somewhere that jews came to india first time around 2,200 years ago. they lived in peace for another 1000 years till the islamic invasions of india began. i guess a lot of jews (together with hindus and persians) would have been killed during the rape and plunder of indian cities from 900 AD till 1800 AD. most of the 800,000-strong jewish population at the time of independence in 1947 migrated to israel. or i should say 'went back' to israel. :) there are still about 100,000 jews left in india.

one of india's most celebrated generals is jewish. Gen. Jacob Sassoon was the Director General Of Military Operations for the Indian Union from 1987-1992. thereafter he took command of the western sector (bordering pakistan) from 1992 till 1996, eventually taking command of indian paramilitary forces in Kashmir from 1996 till his retirement in 1999. hats off to him.

i guess religious discrimination does go on in secular india, but it is mostly social and not institutional. also, the targets of social discrimination are muslims. all other religions (sikh, parsee, judaism, hinduism, buddhism) consider themselves on one side of a social faultline and islam on the other.

i guess after almost a thousand years of persecution by islam, it's hard for others to be too kind to them.

in any case, thanks guys for the explanation. :)

[Evgeny]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
Yes, Jews ancestors were pagen nomads on the steps of central asia... some 10 thousands years ago... of course there were no Jews on the face of the earth that time. Our ancestors become a civilization some 7 thousands years ago... living in the world very first cities. Hebrews appeared only 5 thousand years ago, when the city-state of Ur was destroyed.

Your ancestors, Evgeny, were nomad in euroasia, until about a thousand years ago. (give of take a century or two). Modern Europeans arived to western Europe only 15-16 centuries ago. (with the exception of the Basks and the Celts). As for the date when you've become a civilization... its still a matter of debate... some say (you know who) that date haven't arrived yet. As for writing... Only Stalin made the Russian read and write on mass. You got your Kirilic alpha beith only few centuries ago.

That little bits of history are good for our Indian friends to put western civilizations into prespective.

Roman Alphabeith is rightfuly taken from the Greeks. The hight of the Greek culture was 6-7 century BC... roughly the time of our SECOND temple, and our returen to the land of Israel from Babylon, (under Persian emprial approval). The Greek themselves adopted the Aramite Alphabeith, used by all the people of our region. (by then, we've switched alphabeith, to the square one, you all know, although there remains a version of the original Alphabeith in modern Israel as well).

Oddly enough, just look at the word Alphabeith:
Hebrew first latter is Aleph. Greek: Alpha. Hebrew second letter is Beith (or Bett). Greek is Beta.
Gimmel - Gamma, Dalet- Delta, Hay - Epsilon, Vav- ? , Zain-Zeta ... Het - Hi (Roman X). Tet - Tow... ect...

No plenty of jews were still pagans closely related to the turks and mongols up until about 1000 years ago when Russian knyz of Kiev destroyed the Khazar tribe and jews khazars started converting. also my ancestors did not live in the steppes because they lived in what is now Poland,Belorus, and Ukraine. also Russians got our alphabet about 1100 years ago from southern slavs who got theirs first from the saint cyrill. BTW russia has become one of the most powerfull empires in history, tell me what empire have the jews held expet for a piece of desert 2700 years ago.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Evgeny
No plenty of jews were still pagans closely related to the turks and mongols up until about 1000 years ago when Russian knyz of Kiev destroyed the Khazar tribe and jews khazars started converting.

The Elite of the Khazar society, has become Jewish. They were members of the Jewish faith, but never of the Jewish nation. They were seperate nation with a similar religion to ours. But they all gone no.

Personaly speaking, I can trace my roots all the way back to the first and second Temple, till biblical times. I'd run the my DNA testing, you'll find yet another proof for my claim. There is nothing Khazar by me, or the majority of world Jews. Both Jews and Khazar kept themselves for themselves, living in seperate communities, even in the hight of the Khazar expansion. We all been in good terms, of course... but never quite mingled.


also Russians got our alphabet about 1100 years ago from southern slavs who got theirs first from the saint cyrill. About time!

Llike six thousand years since the Alpha Beith was invented by my ancestors, the Sumerians. (aka Semites). Even the Arabs preceded you in four centuries or so...




BTW russia has become one of the most powerfull empires in history, tell me what empire have the jews held expet for a piece of desert 2700 years ago. All fake! Only it became obvious for the reset of the world a decade ago.

Jewish empire is spiritual and cultural. We still hold on to our intelectual empire. The only kind of empires that can not fade, deminished or destroyed. Don't forget, what ever russian achivements were, they all based up on Jewish technology and Jewish vision. Obviously we wasted our time and effort of creatures such as you!.

As for "piece of desert". I hope you'll agree, I know Israel a bit better then you. most of Israel is not a desert, and in biblic times, even less. huge forests covered regions of Israel. It were turks and Arabs who wiped out all wild life and woods from large parts of Israel. I, like any other Israeli, personaly took part in the reforestation of Israel. As a child, and since, once a year, I plant couple of trees, togather with thousands of other Israelis. (on the same day, as part of a semi religious costum, "Tu Be'Shvat" aka "Hamishusser").

Sting sings: "A city in the desert lies..." in the song: "Can't live without you"

What an Idi*t!
Jerusalm in a mountain top city, surrounded by one of Israel's largest forests. Only Be'er-She'va, is a desert city. (Dimona, Eilat, Arad, Yeruham, Mizpe Ramon, Ofakim are small town in the middle of the desert). The Judea desert in not far away from Jerusalm, which seats on top of the Judea mountain range... but, it's still isn't Jerusalm.

Now, that we Jews, true owners of the land of Israel, have returned, Israel is blooming again, wild life is restored, the desert is waters and pushed back... even the weeds prefer living within our borders then in the Arabs. Check any satelite pictures... you'll Israel borders sharply and clearly! aspecialy the Egyption border.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by IndianSummer
thanks for the info Gilgamesh and Leon. :)

i guess i know what anti-semitism is now. but it still seems pretty stupid.

india is such a huge boiling pot of races, cultures and religions that people here must have decided to not identify each other with their race, religion and origin...too much trouble keeping track of so many ethnicities i guess. lol. by and large.

i read somewhere that jews came to india first time around 2,200 years ago. they lived in peace for another 500 years till the islamic invasions of india began. i guess a lot of jews (together with hindus and persians) would have been killed during the rape and plunder of indian cities from 900 AD till 1800 AD. most of the 800,000-strong jewish population at the time of independence in 1947 migrated to israel. or i should say 'went back' to israel. :) there are still about 100,000 jews left in india.

one of india's most celebrated generals is jewish. Gen. Jacob Sassoon was the Director General Of Military Operations for the Indian Union from 1987-1992. thereafter he took command of the western sector (bordering pakistan) from 1992 till 1996, eventually taking command of indian paramilitary forces in Kashmir from 1996 till his retirement in 1999. hats off to him.

i guess religious discrimination does go on in secular india, but it is mostly social and not institutional. also, the targets of social discrimination are muslims. all other religions (sikh, parsee, judaism, hinduism, buddhism) consider themselves on one side of a social faultline and islam on the other.

i guess after almost a thousand years of persecution by islam, it's hard for others to be too kind to them.

in any case, thanks guys for the explanation. :)

In fact, there were three different Jewish communities in India. One of marchents following the trade routes more the 2 thausand years ago on the hight of the Persian empire, the other of Jewish marchents from Iraq, following the Muslem invaders, more then a thousand years ago, and the last, of European Jews, following the British invadors, couple of centuries ago.

Jews of India, have NEVER suffered any form of racial or religious discreamination of any kind, from the hands of the Hindus. Jews never tried to convert Hindus, since missionarism is against our faith. We always been traders, marchents, goldsmithes and Jewel makers.

Sasoon, (should be pronanunced Sa'son) sounds like a Sepharadi name, I guess he is a member of the Persian-Iraqi Jewish community which arrived to india about a thousand years ago.

Sason is an origional Hebrew name, means Joy or happyness. It's a common first and last name in Israel too. (we have many words for Joy, which often used for first and last names in Israel: Gil, Ron, Rina, Ditza, Gila, Simcha, Sason... to mention only some.

[Evgeny]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh

Don't forget, what ever russian achivements were, they all based up on Jewish technology and Jewish vision. Obviously we wasted our time and effort of creatures such as you!.

[/B]

I have heard all about these "jewish" achivements, please tell me of the names of these "jews" and there achivments. Jews lived in thier sheckles making shoes and furniture during the Russian empire.

[Mediocrates]

The hydrogen bomb, the nuclear submarine, most other nuclear engineering, much of their computer science. Seriously do you know WTF you're talking about?

Cause I read this

"No plenty of jews were still pagans closely related to the turks and mongols up until about 1000 years ago"

And I wonder if you smoke rat poison or something.

[Evgeny]

do you have there names and their nationality?

[IndianSummer]

Leon : "...Gypsies are everywhere and all can trace their roots back to India- difference is- Gypsies went into voluntary exile..."


voluntary exile ! really !! i used to think that the gypsies of europe originated in then Hindu province of Gandhar (modern day muslim afghanistan. the city kandhar's name is derived from gandhar). a major muslim invasion in AD 945 is said to have resulted in the genocide of tens (possible hundreds) of thousands of Hindus in gandhar. in fact the name 'Hindu Kush' , a major mountain belt in modern afghanistan takes it's name from that massive extermination of Hindus. Hindu means hindu of course and 'Kush' means 'killer'. Hindu Kush, Hindu killer or the killer of Hindus.

the survivors either converted to Islam (their offsrings are modern afghan muslim jehadis) or were taken as slaves. these hindu slaves and their offspring were repeatedly sold till they made their way to south-eastern europe and from then on to all over europe and are known as 'gypsies' today. they still retain some aspects of their hindu past, including spirituality and mysticism.

at least that's what i beleived till now...

but 'voluntary exile' ?? this is new...

any more info on that please? or any links i could read more at? :)

[Leon]

Indian Summer,

I never realised that the Jewish community in India was that large (considering that there are only 15 million Jews in the world). I thought there were only a few thousand Jews living there. Well you learn new things everyday :)

I probably going up to India in Jan- one of my friends invited me to stay with him in New-Delhi free of charge!!

[Leon]

Originally posted by IndianSummer
Leon : "...Gypsies are everywhere and all can trace their roots back to India- difference is- Gypsies went into voluntary exile..."


voluntary exile ! really !! i used to think that the gypsies of europe originated in then Hindu province of Gandhar (modern day muslim afghanistan. the city kandhar's name is derived from gandhar). a major muslim invasion in AD 945 is said to have resulted in the genocide of tens (possible hundreds) of thousands of Hindus in gandhar. in fact the name 'Hindu Kush' , a major mountain belt in modern afghanistan takes it's name from that massive extermination of Hindus. Hindu means hindu of course and 'Kush' means 'killer'. Hindu Kush, Hindu killer or the killer of Hindus.

the survivors either converted to Islam (their offsrings are modern afghan muslim jehadis) or were taken as slaves. these hindu slaves and their offspring were repeatedly sold till they made their way to south-eastern europe and from then on to all over europe and are known as 'gypsies' today. they still retain some aspects of their hindu past, including spirituality and mysticism.

at least that's what i beleived till now...

but 'voluntary exile' ?? this is new...

any more info on that please? or any links i could read more at? :)

Ahhh, my impression was that Gypsies were naturually a nomadic people- I never new they were originally forced into exile and was not aware of how Islamic invaders pushed them out. As said- you learn new things everyday! But perhaps over time they got used to the nomadic life-style (or so it seemed- travelling through Europe and Asia in caravans) whereas Jews (no matter where they were) longed to go back to the land of Israel.
Of coarse, despite exile, throughout the centuries Jewish communities did still exist in Israel- usually in Jerusalem (numnering a few thousand) where they predominatley formed the largest community.

[Leon]

Originally posted by Evgeny
I have heard all about these "jewish" achivements, please tell me of the names of these "jews" and there achivments. Jews lived in thier sheckles making shoes and furniture during the Russian empire.

Politics:

Leon Trotsky: founder of Red army

Other prominent players:
Bukharin
Sverdlov
Kamanev
Kalinin


Arts/culture:
Eisenstein- famous 'russian' film director

Isaac Babel- famous 'russian' writer

Anton Rubenstien- 19th century 'russian' pianist and composer

Dmitri Klebanov- famous 'russian' composer

Isaak Lavitan - famous 'russian' painter


There were many, many more in Science, space (i.e building rockets etc - the antisemite russians didnt want to have Jewish astronuats) and the arts. I'll get more names for you from my Russian friends.

Russia became a power largely due to Jewish influence. America is another example where there are literally hundreds of thousands of prominent Jews in politics, military arts/culture.

Russia treated its Jews badly (as with all other minorities)- this explains why russia is in such a slum. America on the other handed treated its Jews well- and is now an undisputed super power.

[Leon]

BTW russia has become one of the most powerfull empires in history, tell me what empire have the jews held expet
for a piece of desert 2700 years ago. [/B] [/QUOTE]

Last time I heard- the russian empire came crashing down in 1991...lasting for less than 80 years. Is this news to you? Do you live in a remote part of russia where they still think the USSR is alive and well? On another note- last time I heard that majority of Russians are Christians who pray to Jesus Christ. Jesus was your typical Jewish 'shoe-maker...' (as you described)
proof that after 3,000 yeras, the Jewish empire is alive and well and dominating yourez.

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Leon
Indian Summer,

I never realised that the Jewish community in India was that large (considering that there are only 15 million Jews in the world). I thought there were only a few thousand Jews living there. Well you learn new things everyday :)



This one you'll have to unlearn :D
IndianSummer added one zero to his numbers.

BTW, Buharin wasn't jewish. Neither was Kalinin (though he had a jewish wife). I could give you some others instead, but I don't think it really gives credit to the jewish people. Who is this famous Klebanov? I thought Shestakovich was relatively famous, but this guy?

[Gilgamesh]

To add some more names to Leon's above list...

Chess champions:
Usually, it's a Jewish title, since most of the chess champions are Jewish:

Botovnic, Tal, Kasparov to name some of the "russian" champions.

Air craft designer: Michael Gurevitch, the G of the MiG...

Correct me if i'm wrong, but also, the founder of Yak industries, Yakovlev, was Jewish.

Writer: Boris Pasternak...

Military: General Yakir,

Soviet spy masters, were all Jewish: The American atomic spy ring, The French Red Orchestra (WWII period) to name some...

[Communication]

Gil,

As much as you and I regularly clash over ideology, you would be the first person I looked for to back me up in a fight. ;)

[Evgeny]

i never said jews didnt contribute anything, Kasparov was armenian:). his father was a jew but he ran out so his mother raised him. Gilgamesh hasd the talent of finding a jew in everybody.

[Leon]

BTW, Buharin wasn't jewish. Neither was Kalinin (though he had a jewish wife). I could give you some others instead, but I don't think it really gives credit to the jewish people. Who is this famous Klebanov? I thought Shestakovich was relatively famous, but this guy? [/B]

I though Bukharin was a Jew? Did I say Kalinin?? I ment to Gregory Zinoviev! :)

[Leon]

Originally posted by Evgeny
I have heard all about these "jewish" achivements, please tell me of the names of these "jews" and there achivments. Jews lived in thier sheckles making shoes and furniture during the Russian empire.

and what did you say?

[greg]

Hello all,

These men, women and children had lived in this city since Biblical times, long before any Arab moved into the region.

Therefor the American Indians and Australian aborigines can kill millions of immigrant inhabitants based on distant historical grounds?

But they were massacred, simply for being Jews.

Is that the reason, or is it in part because the Jews believe themselves to be a superior race, thereby inciting people to dislike them?

In the name, I suppose, of freedom and the struggle for dignity. Hard to know what a Jewish child was doing wrong when his throat was slit by an Arab gangster.

And Jews have never slit the throats of innocent Arab children?

There were 600 Jews living in Hebron in 1929, most of them not even Zionists. Highly orthodox and peaceful, they refused the protection of the Jewish defence organizations and trusted their Arab neighbours would not harm them. How wrong they were. That Jews now want to return to Hebron is seen by some as being immoral.

Seems to me boths sides are partially responsible for the fear and mistrust between Jews and Arabs.

Oh, I see. Jews should get used to being slaughtered and merely walk away.

And the Jews have never slaughted others? Are you really that innocent?

I always find it ironic that the hysterical left, self-loathing Jews and anti-Semites scream about Zionism, when all the Jews are doing is taking back what always belonged to them in the first place.

Taking back what belongs to whom? God surely owns everything which exists, for us mortal human beings we should be humble and thankful for that which we are born with, or that which we can aquire through RESPECT and GOODWILL towards our fellow human being. Using tyranny and murder to forcefully gain ownership of land which is naught but God's land, seems very hypocritical and self serving to me.

Self-loathing Jew?

That could depend upon the individual's quality of heart. If there is a real reason for self-loathing, then rather than self-pity, perhaps some positive steps of self purification maybe be a better response?

Oh, yes. I didn't believe it in the past, but now know it to be so. People who are shamed by their identity. Freud may have been wrong on many things, but not all.

We all have things of which we are ashamed, no? So let us be mature about it and aspire to only do good in future.

Then there is the anti-Semitism issue. Not every anti-Zionist is a Jew-hater. But every Jew-hater is an anti-Zionist. In some ways, Israel has become the new Jew - an entity one can despise in polite company and get away with it. I meet critics of Israel all the time who are not anti-Semitic. But when one asks them why they are not more angry at any of the numerous Latin American, African or Asian states that murder, torture and rape they remain silent.

And the Zionists themselves aren't currently sowing their own seeds of tyranny, murder and abuse upon the gentiles? So the Zionist media doesn't ever tell propaganda lies ending up costing innocent lives?

This may not be Jew-hatred, but it is at the very least lazy and selective criticism.

I'm against all forms of selective criticism, I do however see a lot of this "selective criticism" in Zionist debate, a scary amount, you have the agenda to create a greater Israel and world government and you will achieve this even if it means lies and deceit and war. Am I incorrect?

There are valid objections to be made of some Israeli actions and of some Israeli leaders.

Yes, though I imagine there would be disagreement about which of those false Israeli ideas and actions are of most significance. I, as a gentile, view the Zionist belief of creating a greater Israel by force if necesssary as corrupt and against God. So, I personally am scared of your zealous religious ideology. Personally I view all human beings as created equal in the eyes of God, yet I understand Jews consider the Jews to be a superior race, is that correct?

But if the Arab world would affirm the absolute right to existence of the Jewish state in a sea of increasingly violent and paranoid Islam, most of these problems could be dealt with.

That is interesting and how would you define this acceptable "Jewish state", what are the boundaries of Israel you'd consider fair and reasonable so that peaceful relations with the Palestinians could be agreed upon?

Jews were so much easier to criticize and beat up when they lived in a diaspora, had no army and, well, knew their place. But times change. And so do people. Thank God for that.

Now you have enough nuclear bombs to kill your neighbours 100 times over and you think your lives have therefor improved? To the contrary, all this proves is in matters of the heart and soul things have greatly degenerated, nothing to be proud of. When the nuclear bombs in Israel have been dismantled then will be the time to celebrate, and to create this time of celebration will require human beings reaching deep into their God given hearts and seeking repectful and peaceful relationships with their fellow human beings.

http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/coren.html [/B][/QUOTE]

[fishy]

I need some help. I go on this other message board regularly, and someone has posted all these quotations by herzl and other zionist that appear to be racist. I am not sure how to respond. I was thinking that I would just write about the current state of Israel and how almost 1 sixth of the population of Israel is not Jewish, and that there are arabs within the government. But then it would seem like I am admitting that the original movement of zionism is racism. I'm not so worried about the sharon comments, so please focus more on herzl's comment.

Please help me to respond to the following:

The basis for zionism was sepratism based on race/relgion and it was advocated that it be done at ANY cost. It did not matter who it would harm. They were quite aware from the beginning that many would be harmed and they were more than willing to do it. Most Jews were opposed to it until the holocaust. Two things came together to make it all possible....first the holocaust and the fact that the British has control over the area that is now Palestine.

In 1934, German Zionist Joachim Prinz, who would later head the American Jewish Congress, noted: "We want assimilation to be replaced by a new law: the declaration of belonging to the Jewish nation and Jewish race. A state built upon the principle of the purity of nation and race can only be honored and respected by a Jew who declares his belonging to his own kind." (ah racially pure land huh....nah not racist at all right?}

When the British devised a plan to allow thousands of German Jewish children to enter the U.K. and be saved from the Holocaust, David Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel's first Prime Minister balked, explaining:
"If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by transporting them to (Israel) then I would opt for the second alternative."

Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry. THIS IS THE FOUNDER OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT.

These are all quotes from zionists, people higher up in the zionist movement...LEADERS.

There are many Jews who would like to CHANGE the zionist movement, they can afford it can they not? They have acheived what they want, the only problem they have left are the human beings they displaced now. There are many Jews who are in recognition of the fact that these humans that have been displaced are also in need of a solution and are willing to help find one.

As far as Sharon, he is a real terrorist and a racist and has been throughout his career. Israel has elected numerous leaders who are blatent racists, this does not speak well for Israel. Dont have to go back too far to see Sharon's attitude either...

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

This sound like someone who is looking for peace or even considers the Palestinians plight or needs? Sounds like a greedy land-grabber to me...and he has shown in actions as well as words what it is he believes. His leadership of unit 101 is but ONE example.

Please do not respond with hatred toward this person who posted it. And please do not tell me that I shouldn't even bother to respond to such a person. I think these quotations that she posted are legitimate (until proven not) so I want to be able to defend them and zionism in some way.

Thank you

[The Indian]

Greg,


Why is that you fail to see that Israel is surrounded entirely by Muslim countries whos only intention is to wipe Jews off the face of the earth? Why can't these Palestinians go to Jordan and Syria? They are ehtnically the same. You are lucky that you live in Australia surrounded by ocean. One day the Chinese and Indonesians will take over Australia by crossing the ocean and perhaps you can realize what Jews are facing today. There are only 18 million Aussies and 1000 million Chinese and 220 million Indonesians. You have lots of wide open spaces, please let others use it.

[Noam]

HELP WANTED.

This Ramadan (starting very soon if not today) in EGYPT they are going to devote the whole month to SEQUEL of the HORSELESS RIDER.

Another VITRIOLIC JUDEOPHOBIC DIATRIBE. Full month of BRAIN WASHING OF 70 Million Egyptians and I am sure thru Al Jazeera the rest of the 1.3 billion lovers.

I can't find name or link to this program. Any help will be appreciated.

[nuttie]

Originally posted by Leon
Interestingly the term anti-semitism was coined by non Jews in Germany two centuries back to describe Jew hatred. Why anti-Semitism? simply becuase, (as somone mentioned) Jews are Semitic (like Arabs) Very true, except for one mistake, repeated by many on this thread and elsewhere. In short, there is no such thing as a semitic race. When the term "semitic" was first used, in the nineteenth century, it was a philological one, to describe a group of languages including Hebrew, Arabic, ancient Phoenician, and some others I cannot remember. Race theorists of the nineteenth century falsely adopted this term, with no scientific grounds to speak of. The next twist was "antisemitism", invented, as noted by Leon, as a euphomism for Jew Hatred, and never meant anything else despite the wider definition of the race theorists. Later, even for Hitler, antisemitism concerned only jews, and did not prevent him from doing business with Arabs.

[Noam]

Ha'aretz Editorial:

"...The lunatic idea that six million Jews dictate the
policies of a superpower with 280 million
inhabitants has contributed greatly to the
decisions by Arab and Palestinian leaders, and
even to that of the Arab League (in spring 2002),
to accept, albeit with gritted teeth, the
existence of the Jewish state."...

"...The enormous power of pro-Israel lobbies such as
AIPAC is what outraged Mahathir. Instead of
internalizing the fact that interest groups are
an inseparable part of the democratic game,
Muslim leaders invent anti-Semitic conspiracy
theories about Israel and American Jews. It is
easier for them to let racist genies out of the
bottle than to admit that more than a billion
Muslims worldwide do not do a fraction for
their Palestinian brethren of what six million
American Jews do for Israel. American Jews
would not have allowed tens of thousands of
their fellow Jews to languish in refugee camps
for more than 50 years. While the Muslims
devote their energy and money to internal
strife, American Jews devote the bulk of their
resources to mobilizing political support for
the government of Israel.

The Israeli "peace camp" has also demonstrated
weakness in the face of "Jewish power." In its
arrogant attitude toward everything that smacks
of the Diaspora, the left has conceded one of
the strongest pressure groups in the world -
and now it complains that the right controls
the arena. Instead of cultivating a moderate
Jewish leadership, the left stood by and
watched as Jewish organizations in Washington
and New York turned into branches of the Likud
and representatives of the settlers in recent
years. Support for a government that is leading
the Jewish state to destruction, in the
security, demographic, economic and social
realms, is not proof that Jews control the
world. Such a claim is proof that anti-Semitism
causes people to lose their minds."...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/354017.html

Efraim Kishon, Perhaps one of the smarest (certainly funniest) men alive said: Anti semitism is an incurable disease!

[danholo]

I just finished this (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/078796851X/qid=1067276936/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-1376053-7871142?v=glance&n=507846) book and its exactly on the subject discussed here. Everybody should check it out.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Noam
Efraim Kishon, Perhaps one of the smarest (certainly funniest) men alive said: Anti semitism is an incurable disease!

Kishon is wrong!
9mm is a common cure for most antisemite. I strongly recomand it, and willing and ready to applay it into the head of any antisemetic patiant I come a cross.

[Canajew]

Originally posted by greg
These men, women and children had lived in this city since Biblical times, long before any Arab moved into the region.

Therefor the American Indians and Australian aborigines can kill millions of immigrant inhabitants based on distant historical grounds?


I was not aware that the israelis killed millions of anybody? How you got from A to B has more to do with your lack of a functional logical thought process, I would suspect.



But they were massacred, simply for being Jews.

Is that the reason, or is it in part because the Jews believe themselves to be a superior race, thereby inciting people to dislike them?


Just becasue I am better than you does not mean that my people are better than your people. And no, your assertion is patently ridiculous, hateful and indicative of an internalized anti-semetic perspective that I have never had the privilege of seeing so blatantly expressed. Mazel tov.



In the name, I suppose, of freedom and the struggle for dignity. Hard to know what a Jewish child was doing wrong when his throat was slit by an Arab gangster.

And Jews have never slit the throats of innocent Arab children?


equivalence. nice touch. you think the numbers are roughly equivalent? you think the level of support amoing the general population for this type of thing is roughly equivalent? you think at all?



There were 600 Jews living in Hebron in 1929, most of them not even Zionists. Highly orthodox and peaceful, they refused the protection of the Jewish defence organizations and trusted their Arab neighbours would not harm them. How wrong they were. That Jews now want to return to Hebron is seen by some as being immoral.

Seems to me boths sides are partially responsible for the fear and mistrust between Jews and Arabs.


again with your equivalence that stems from a myopic view of history. The fear comes from calls for killing all the Jews that have been eminating from the Mufti, Arafat and the rest since Israel was founded and before. And of course the actions that have been taken to actually carry out these threats.



Oh, I see. Jews should get used to being slaughtered and merely walk away.

And the Jews have never slaughted others? Are you really that innocent?


so Jewish civilians DESERVE it. I see.



Taking back what belongs to whom? God surely owns everything which exists, for us mortal human beings we should be humble and thankful for that which we are born with, or that which we can aquire through RESPECT and GOODWILL towards our fellow human being. Using tyranny and murder to forcefully gain ownership of land which is naught but God's land, seems very hypocritical and self serving to me.


but is this not EXACTLY what the Plaestinians are doing, using murder and tyranny. the Jews used hard work, education and capital to build a civil society that only later achieved a right to self determination and independence. this civil society is what gained the Jews statehood, while the violence used to repel the Arab invaders protected it.




Oh, yes. I didn't believe it in the past, but now know it to be so. People who are shamed by their identity. Freud may have been wrong on many things, but not all.

We all have things of which we are ashamed, no? So let us be mature about it and aspire to only do good in future.


empty platitudes that mean nothing.



And the Zionists themselves aren't currently sowing their own seeds of tyranny, murder and abuse upon the gentiles? So the Zionist media doesn't ever tell propaganda lies ending up costing innocent lives?


again with the equivalence. Read a little about perspective.



This may not be Jew-hatred, but it is at the very least lazy and selective criticism.

I'm against all forms of selective criticism, I do however see a lot of this "selective criticism" in Zionist debate, a scary amount, you have the agenda to create a greater Israel and world government and you will achieve this even if it means lies and deceit and war. Am I incorrect?


more manifestations of internalized anti-semitism. you really need some help, I think, but you wont get it from anyone here. A psychiatrist, maybe?

The greater Israel bit I can let slide becasue there must be at least 4 or 5 Jews who want it, but the bit about a Jewish conspiracy to impose some sort of world government is a demonstration of the MASSIVE internalized bias your 'information set' has against Jews. You would make the malaysian PM proud, and I would assume that either you are a muslim who has grown up in a totalitarian country and been expossed to nothing except this rabidly hateful propaganda, and therefor genuinely don't know any better, or you have some sort of massive social dysfunction and you have latched onto anti-semitism to make yourself feel better. either way, you seem quite broken, but alas you are not for me to fix.



Yes, though I imagine there would be disagreement about which of those false Israeli ideas and actions are of most significance. I, as a gentile, view the Zionist belief of creating a greater Israel by force if necesssary as corrupt and against God. So, I personally am scared of your zealous religious ideology. Personally I view all human beings as created equal in the eyes of God, yet I understand Jews consider the Jews to be a superior race, is that correct?


couple of things. the greater Israel thing is a ruse, soem may have held that view in the 1970s but few do today (by the way, this greater Israel you speak of, is it the one from the nile to the euphrates by any chance, I get the impression you are that sort of nutball).

The bit about against god is kind of silly, as I suspect you are not really qualified to speak for god (whom I believe not to exist, so don't get all high and mighty about the Lord and stuff).

And the bit about Jews perceiving themselves to be superior, is, again, exactly the kind of inculcated anti-semitism which has caused the Arab and Muslim world to misperceive the Jews as massively as they have. You really are demented in your world-view, and i would suggest you take some sort of remedial action. maybe some sort of brain-scan.

the concept of a 'chosen people' is not, from what I have been taught, about being superior but about having an obligation imposed on the people by god to live to a higher moral and ethical standard, thus enlightening, not killing or enslaving (as was the way of others at the time and the way of some today) the gentiles.



But if the Arab world would affirm the absolute right to existence of the Jewish state in a sea of increasingly violent and paranoid Islam, most of these problems could be dealt with.

That is interesting and how would you define this acceptable "Jewish state", what are the boundaries of Israel you'd consider fair and reasonable so that peaceful relations with the Palestinians could be agreed upon?


somewhere based on the 1949 armistance lines, with adjustments made based on demographic and security considerations (i.e. following what resolution 242 actually said, not what the Arabs manipulated it to mean). not really ocnsistent with your perception of Jews, eh?



Jews were so much easier to criticize and beat up when they lived in a diaspora, had no army and, well, knew their place. But times change. And so do people. Thank God for that.

Now you have enough nuclear bombs to kill your neighbours 100 times over and you think your lives have therefor improved? To the contrary, all this proves is in matters of the heart and soul things have greatly degenerated, nothing to be proud of. When the nuclear bombs in Israel have been dismantled then will be the time to celebrate, and to create this time of celebration will require human beings reaching deep into their God given hearts and seeking repectful and peaceful relationships with their fellow human beings.


this is the response of a simpleton. you made this response. Draw the appropriate inference.

[Elisheba]

Originally posted by Leon
Indian Summer,

I never realised that the Jewish community in India was that large (considering that there are only 15 million Jews in the world). I thought there were only a few thousand Jews living there. Well you learn new things everyday :)

I probably going up to India in Jan- one of my friends invited me to stay with him in New-Delhi free of charge!!

It will probably seem silly to so many of you here, but I first got a positive view of India when I saw "Ghandi" about 20 years ago. I was so impressed by one of Ghandi's initial supporters/workers who was shown prominently wearing a Star of David!

Of course, the India/Pakistan mess has left me even more empathetic with India as well!

[Canajew]

an article on the Jewish thought process and jewish influence for our anti-semetic friend:



Oct. 30, 2003
Fear of Jewish power
By SHMULEY BOTEACH
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/P/Section/SectionIndex&cid=1006953079897

With enemies like Mahathir Mohamad, who needs friends? And with friends like Gov. Jim McGreevey, who needs enemies?

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad's recent speech should be bronzed and placed on the walls of every synagogue.

One of the world's foremost Islamic leaders says that the Jews invented democracy and human rights (even if he did impugn our motives for doing so) and we castigate him for Jew-hatred? Come on. This guy ought to get a medal.

To be sure, Mahathir's a pretty insecure guy, going on about how 1.3 billion Muslims have been bested by 14 million Jews in the struggle for world domination. If anything, the problem with the world today is that the Jews have too little influence, not too much. But rather than be offended at Mahathir's howling that Jews "have now gained control of the most powerful countries," I say, "Bring it on."

What, after all, would be so bad if Mahathir were right and Jews took over the Middle East? Just imagine that rather than being run by Jew-hating autocrats, the Arab nations were run by democracy-loving Hebrews. We would impose upon the Arab world the sixth commandment, "Thou shalt not murder," and pressure governments to live by the biblical injunction "thou shalt not sit idly by the blood of your neighbor."

No Arab country would ever again allow a Saddam Hussein to slaughter Islamic men or the Taliban to beat Islamic women with whips.

As they do in Israel alongside Jews, Muslims would be allowed to vote and the Arab world would be a region of economic prosperity and political liberty rather than the impoverished slum that Mahathir lamented in his speech.
Mahathir says that "the Jews have gotten great countries to fight their battles." He's right. And we're proud.

The Islamic Ottomans murdered 1.5 million Armenians with barely a protest. The Holocaust took six million Jews, 90 percent of the world's Gypsies, homosexuals and the handicapped, and no one tried to stop it.

In Rwanda 800,000 destitute Africans were hacked to death while Bill Clinton and Kofi Annan closed their eyes and pretended not to see. But now that Jewish neo-conservatives have influence in government, and a great born-again Christian named George W. Bush – whose constituency cherishes Christianity's Hebraic heritage – is in power, the United States decided that it would not sit back as Saddam murdered more than a million Muslims.

Mahathir would do well to put down his copy of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and emulate the Jewish neo-cons by getting out there and try and save some Arab lives as well.

I for one make no apologies for global Jewish influence. Countries that are based on Judeo-Christianity, like the United States, are prosperous champions of human rights. Areas where Jews and their values are absent or denied influence usually end up being pretty scary places like Nazi Germany, the former Soviet Union, North Korea, and the entire Arab world.

For those who say that Jews flexing their muscles invites anti-Semitism, I respond:

Those who hate Jews will do so whether or not there is a Jewish assistant secretary of defense named Wolfowitz or a White House press secretary named Ari.

Should we forfeit our biblical imperative to serve as a light unto the nations just because of a bunch of bigots?

Most importantly, I have no problem with Jewish power because, alone among the nations of the world, the Jews have no real interest in power. Unlike the British, we never lament the loss of empire. Unlike the Russians, we have no regrets about the loss of superpower status. And unlike the French, we don't obstruct humanitarian wars just in order to gain international prestige.

THE JEWISH people are interested in influence rather than power, values rather than muscle. In every country in which we live Jews are at the forefront of education, communal development, and charity. We don't march through streets calling for authors to be killed for insulting us, and in Israel we fight only when attacked.

If it were power we craved, then we would have expelled the Palestinians from the West Bank, as the Arabs did to Sephardic Jews after 1948. We would have carpet-bombed Gaza when it became a center of terror, as Russia did in Chechnya. And we would not have been satisfied with a tiny sliver of land called Israel as our home, but would have pushed on to Damascus and Cairo at the conclusion of the Yom Kippur War.

Unlike the African-American community, Jews seem very uncomfortable flexing their muscle. The New York Times recently reported that the Democratic presidential debates have become farcical because of the absurdity of dividing an hour between nine candidates. The logical thing would be to drop marginal candidates, like Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun. But the black community, who ferociously and admirably protect their leaders and interests, would never forgive the affront to their candidates.

Now let's contrast this with how American Jews respond to an egregious affront to their own interests.

A few months ago, the Palestine Solidarity Movement, a student group that openly supports terrorism and suicide bombings against Jews and calls for the destruction of the State of Israel, announced that it was going to stage a conference at Rutgers, New Jersey's largest state university.
John Bennett, a Republican leader in New Jersey, sent a letter to Democratic Gov. Jim McGreevey calling the organization abominable and asking the governor to cancel the conference, saying he was "strongly opposed to taxpayer dollars being used to help spread their message of hate." What did McGreevey do?

He had the president of Rutgers issue a statement that said, "The governor and I agreed that the best way to counter deplorable arguments is more discussion, not less, and that the appropriate place for this kind of discourse is the university."

Imagine for a moment that the Ku Klux Klan planned a conference at "Old Miss" where they would openly call for black children to be burned in their churches, or that an Islamic organization sought to stage a conference where they would openly call for the murder of American soldiers in Iraq. Would any governor who allowed such a conference have survived in office?

But here's how the Jewish community reacted to McGreevey. First, the Rutgers Hillel announced that it accepted the governor's decision because "legal precedent favors free speech in this context."

Free speech? This is incitement! Calling for children to be blown up on buses is not an exercise in the First Amendment but a call to murder. Hillel later invited McGreevey to be one of its speakers at a pro-Israel rally.

It gets worse. Last week here in New Jersey, a friend who is an outstanding servant of the Jewish community and tireless fighter for Israel, sent me an invitation to a fund-raiser for Democratic candidates where I would have the high honor of meeting Gov. James McGreevey. I wrote back to him asking if he had taken leave of his senses. "How could you support McGreevey when he gave permission to an organization that condones blowing up Jews to speak on campus? I am happy to come if we're permitted to challenge him."

He quickly wrote back that challenging a governor at his home was inappropriate. When I wrote back declining his kind invitation, to his great credit, he guaranteed me that he would now personally confront the governor publicly about Rutgers at the event.

This past weekend I read a new book about the Yom Kippur War. It had me in tears. Not only because so many heroes died, but because I contrasted the courage of Israeli soldiers with the cowardice of all too many Diaspora Jews, myself included, and I felt ashamed. It would be nice if in this new year we Jews developed more of what Americans call backbone, what Latinos call cojones, and what Israelis call hutzpa.

The writer is a rabbi, broadcaster and author. His latest book is The Private Adam: Becoming a Hero in a Selfish Age.

[Gilgamesh]

Seldom do we get a POS like "greg" from "australia" doing such an effort, to find this forum, and type po mo anti semetic nonsense. Po Mo is BS, but not anti semetism. I wish "greg" had to kishkes to face me in person, so I'll rip him apart in my bear hands. (never done it before, not even in IDF service... always a first time, sure it's be a plasure!!! ).
I'll keep is one liners, so I could save, and next time an arse hole like "greg" comes over, I'll have, finaly, a cut and paste ready answer.

Originally posted by greg
Hello all, drop dead you freak!!!

These men, women and children had lived in this city since Biblical times, long before any Arab moved into the region.

Therefor the American Indians and Australian aborigines can kill millions of immigrant inhabitants based on distant historical grounds?
Oh yeah! I'll all for them! I promiss to come over and help the aboriginies to slay Ausie land grabbers!!! The aboriginers only have to ask me too, and I'll LOVE to do the rest!

Thanks G-d, most Ausies aren't like you, "greg", and they do live in peace with the natives, so nothing for me to do there...

BTW. I support the Bask struggle for independence against the French and the Spainials, The Tibetian struggle, The Hindu stuggle against Islamist invadors, The Bahai struggle to survive in Iran, I support freedom and democracy in the Arab world, I'm against women sex slavery in central Europe and Arab states, I'm against black Africans slavery by Islamists in Sudan ect...

Sadly, all you seem to concern about, is us Jews!

Unlike the Aboriginies, Many American Indians sold their lands or lost those lands, in wars. Just like the Arabs. As for the American indians... Either way, now there is a new division of lands in the North America. Also, the American Indians should be happy since they gave their lands for a great cause: The USA. Best there is, leader of the free, gurdian of Liberty and apostole of democracy. Never did the lines between son of light and spawns of evil been so clear, since WWII. The US is on the good guys team. You, "greg" from "australia" obviously not!


But they were massacred, simply for being Jews.

Is that the reason, or is it in part because the Jews believe themselves to be a superior race, thereby inciting people to dislike them?Mass murder is the result of evil. Evil has no defense. defender of Evil, is only evil.

To be more spacific: We Jews, are superior. We are most anciant. Our faith and philosophy begot the great faithes who govern this world, in this current apoch. Our world view masters. Sadly, too few Jews truly understand the powers they are able to unleash upon the world. Too few Jews belive in their origional desteny, which they never chose, and cannot control, yet born into. One day, we will lern fully the ways of the world, and one day we Jews will unleash these powers in all our warth. Fear this day, since this day is apporaching. On that day, evil will have no refuge!

Other people understand our powers... and they hate us Jews for it.

We Jews are better, and we better our friends and bless them. We curse our enemies and anticipate their sure and soon demise!

Where are the mighty Romans? We Jews out lived them.
Where are the Babylonyans? We Jews buried them in the sands.
Where are the Greeks? Over run by Barberian hords who now posses their lands.
Where are the powerful Pharohnic Egyptions? Gone! gone! gone! Only beasts rule Egypt today!
We Jews survived! ... and you are doomed!



In the name, I suppose, of freedom and the struggle for dignity. Hard to know what a Jewish child was doing wrong when his throat was slit by an Arab gangster.

And Jews have never slit the throats of innocent Arab children? I do not aware of any Arab chiled, deliberatly murdered by a Jew. Do you?

If somebody does commit murder, he put on trail, if found guilty he rots in jail. Can you say the same about arab terrorists? Only if we get them, they get punished!


There were 600 Jews living in Hebron in 1929, most of them not even Zionists. Highly orthodox and peaceful, they refused the protection of the Jewish defence organizations and trusted their Arab neighbours would not harm them. How wrong they were. That Jews now want to return to Hebron is seen by some as being immoral.

Seems to me boths sides are partially responsible for the fear and mistrust between Jews and Arabs. Nope! Arabs clearly carry all the guilt for the situationThe same way you don't put in jail the victim of a crime, as if he is a criminal too.

Not every story has two equal sides, sometimes the story IS quite simple to understand and judge.

Israeli Jews only tragedy caused from not finnishing off the Islamist living disater. We have "moral dilemas" about clearing arab evil.

I guess we wait for other to do our job, after all, Arab kill Arabs in more quantities then anybody else.

[Gilgamesh]

Oh, I see. Jews should get used to being slaughtered and merely walk away.

And the Jews have never slaughted others? Are you really that innocent? Jews never slaughtered enough of their enemies. We are too marcyfull, I'm afraid. This is our cross to bare. (sort of speak). Frankly speaking, IDF soldiers behave like "christian saints", IDF soldiers are Tzadiks, each and every one of them.

One day, somebody will allow us to be less marcyful then now. Then, "greg" be afraid. Be VERY afraid.


I always find it ironic that the hysterical left, self-loathing Jews and anti-Semites scream about Zionism, when all the Jews are doing is taking back what always belonged to them in the first place.

Taking back what belongs to whom? God surely owns everything which exists, for us mortal human beings we should be humble and thankful for that which we are born with, or that which we can aquire through RESPECT and GOODWILL towards our fellow human being. Using tyranny and murder to forcefully gain ownership of land which is naught but God's land, seems very hypocritical and self serving to me. Don't cops arrest crimminals? Doesn't is "tyranical and forceful"? I NEVER quite understood how one can undo crime or return justace and social harmony, through GOODWILL and RESPECT.

Nope. It's hypocritical had we been Christians. All christian nations are most hypocritical, once it comes to real life and their faith.
We are Jews. We have nothing against WAR, once "Respect and goodwill" fail to do the job. Justace is paramount, nothing else but justace. Beeing forceful may serve justace just as much.


We all have things of which we are ashamed, no? So let us be mature about it and aspire to only do good in future. I am praud of my identity. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

I do aspire to do good in the future, part of it is to rid the world from satanic creatures like you "greg" from "australia".


And the Zionists themselves aren't currently sowing their own seeds of tyranny, murder and abuse upon the gentiles? So the Zionist media doesn't ever tell propaganda lies ending up costing innocent lives? The answer is: NO!! Zionist media does not resort ot cheap propaganda. We have the truth which gives us strenghth. Always did. As for "abuse of gentails" every one should get what he deserves, once he chose his path. Arabs chose evil. The wrong path. They will get, in G-d help, what ever coming for them.


I'm against all forms of selective criticism, I do however see a lot of this "selective criticism" in Zionist debate, a scary amount, you have the agenda to create a greater Israel and world government and you will achieve this even if it means lies and deceit and war. Am I incorrect? Yes, you're incorrect

There is no such thing, as "greater Israel" there is only Israel, and it right to exist. This what the war in the region is about. The Arabs say so themselves, for the last hundred years.

As for "world goverment"... this is pure BS. We don't have a need for "world goverment". We aren't that primitives.

Humanity, is ruled by fundemetal laws and harmonies, we Jews may lern to command. (had we wished it, but maybe we may never get any other choises). I speak of laws, science is only partly begins to understand. Laws of economics, socialogy, history, medicin, biology, physics... Needless to say, many of the scientists are Jewish...

Fear us, lowly Anti Semite, for your end is as agonizing as its near


Yes, though I imagine there would be disagreement about which of those false Israeli ideas and actions are of most significance. I, as a gentile, view the Zionist belief of creating a greater Israel by force if necesssary as corrupt and against God. So, I personally am scared of your zealous religious ideology. Personally I view all human beings as created equal in the eyes of God, yet I understand Jews consider the Jews to be a superior race, is that correct? I guss you know where to shove your views. Zionism will triumph, despite whatever BS you believe in. G-d is on our side, and there is nothing you can do about it. Israel and us Jews will only grow stronger. Our only hurdel is our own wrong convictions about our true powers and our right you use them.

You "greg" demonstrate that not all men are equal. All men created equal, but few follow G-d's way, and remain equal. It all comes down to men choises. Those who choose evil, are doomed, in this world as much as in the next. See the Arabs who rise against us and against G-d. You "greg" had chosen badly. Your end is near.

Every man becomes what he chooses to be We Jews believe we are G-d chosen, we become one. We earn G-d choise every day. As for Jewish superiorty, I strongly believe in one. However, I do believe other people are superior as well, if they choose to be so.


But if the Arab world would affirm the absolute right to existence of the Jewish state in a sea of increasingly violent and paranoid Islam, most of these problems could be dealt with.

That is interesting and how would you define this acceptable "Jewish state", what are the boundaries of Israel you'd consider fair and reasonable so that peaceful relations with the Palestinians could be agreed upon? Whatever we Jews may want, in a certain given time

For better defenition of land of Israel, just and rightful borders, read the bible or the Kuran near you. Both speak of similar borders.


Jews were so much easier to criticize and beat up when they lived in a diaspora, had no army and, well, knew their place. But times change. And so do people. Thank God for that.

Now you have enough nuclear bombs to kill your neighbours 100 times over and you think your lives have therefor improved? To the contrary, all this proves is in matters of the heart and soul things have greatly degenerated, nothing to be proud of. When the nuclear bombs in Israel have been dismantled then will be the time to celebrate, and to create this time of celebration will require human beings reaching deep into their God given hearts and seeking repectful and peaceful relationships with their fellow human beings.
Things would greatly improved, had we Jews used our nukes against our foes

From bitter experiance, we've lernt that Arabs "reaching deep into their God given hearts and seeking repectful and peaceful relationships with their fellow human beings" once they face a barrle of a gun, which a Jew shoves up their nose.

[minusthejihad]

Sounds like greg's a tad bit jealous. I don't fault him though.

[Elisheba]

Originally posted by minusthejihad
Sounds like greg's a tad bit jealous. I don't fault him though.

Either that or someone needs to take their meds - I've been afraid to venture back here until something rational (your post) appeared. Thanks...I think! ;)

[Elisheva]

Evgeny: How about 161 Nobel prizes won by Jews although they only make up .2% of the world's population. Not bad, isn't it?