A proposed solution for the suicide bombings

[Alfred]

Here is my recommendation for the new Israeli policy.


First, Public Relations. Before the announcement of this new policy, Israel should pre-deploy their best PR people in the capitols of the nations that matter. These people should be fluent in the local language (without strong accent) and should be “nice” in their demeanor.

On D-Day, the PR people should present their message to the public of all Western countries. Maximum exposure is necessary to avoid the filtration of the message by the media. They should be on every major network and every major radio station.

This is what they should say…in essence..

“The State of Israel is today facing extermination…not in a massive attack by Arab nations but by each day losing more and more of our citizens. These attacks are often funded by outside nations which in total outnumber Israel citizen to citizen by XXX percent. So each day that we lose civilians we are being slowly exterminated. Exterminated by an enemy who has time on his side.

Sixty years ago the Jewish people also faced the threat of extermination. At that time we did not have the means to defend ourselves. We do today. Many nations helped our people at that time, and many nations didn’t. Since WW2 however, bothEurope and America have been very supportive of a land for the Jewish people and we wish to thank them with our whole heart for their support. We ask for your support again, as we are again facing extermination.

Despite years of on-again off-again peace talks, there is still very sizable percentage of the Palestinian population who will continue fighting no matter what peaceful settlement is arrived at. Outsiders will also sabotage any peaceful solution that we may come up with. The State of Israel will continue to seek a peaceful solution and will negotiate with practically any Palestinian who has any authority. But we have to stop the bleeding. We are bleeding to death. And we WILL stop the bleeding, starting right now.

The State of Israel wishes to make the following worldwide announcement of our 5-point Emergency Survival Plan.

1. The State of Israel will continue to negotiate with any Palestinian leader, who has any semblance of power, for a long-term solution to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute.

2. As to today, the State of Israel will offer massive retaliation for each suicide attack that is inflicted on the State of Israel. The guiding rule will be 500 Palestinians killed for every Israeli citizen killed. We wish to extend a warning to the media. If you are standing next to a bad guy you probably will be hit. So please do not stand next to bad guys.

3. Every major Palestinian city is now being ringed with artillery. (Cut to a shot of 155mm howitzers being moved around Palestinian cities). We know where the terrorists live. We know which city centers support and finance the terrorists. After each terrorist bombing we will bomb the city of our choice until at least 500 Palestinians die for every Israelis killed in the terrorist attack. This may seem cruel, but the American, Asian and European powers played by similar rules during WW2. Our enemy is playing by those rules and we have been fighting with our hands behind our backs for too many years. We are now playing by similar rules to our enemy except that our enemy would kill all Israelies if they had the capability. We have the capability to kill all of our enemy but we choose not to. This is a limited reaction but hopefully it will be painful enough for our enemy to change his ways.

4. We will only take the above action if attacked by Palestinian terrorists. If there are no bombings there will not be any massive retaliation. As we are at war however, we will continue what many in the media call “targeted assassinations” These are military actions not assassinations. Our difficulty is that we cannot fight the enemy as an army, for they hide amongst the people. Therefore the State of Israel has determined that by killing the leaders we are saving innocent lives. This policy will continue at an accelerated pace until a long-term peace agreement is signed. We consider the following terrorist organizations as military targets: Hamas, etc. etc.

5. The above 500 to 1 policy will also be in force for any Arab State that attacks us or allows terrorists to attack us from their borders. If an Arab State goes over a certain line however, we will eliminate that State.

“This policy is effective immediately. And we hope that each of our friends will use their influence to stop suicide bombings and the like so that we do not have to use this policy”

Once the above announcement is made I would get on all the American Christian talk shows, networks etc. and drum up support. If you play it right, most Americans (except for the Left) will say that Israel is FINALLY doing something.

The massive retaliation should be accomplished in one day, per suicide bombing. The world can take war for one day...if you drag it out it becomes a siege and the media gets involved. Suicide bombing in Tel Aviv? Blow up 1/4 of Jenin that afternoon. Quick and fast. I would also let it be known that you will continue blowing up the house of families that raise suicide bombers...just that the families will be in the house when you blow it up. Cruel, brutal and efficient. A future suicide bomber will martyr his whole family next time...that may give them pause to think it through.

The media will scream at the above policy, but as you have not yet done anything you can point the future fault where it lies; with the terrorists. You don't bomb us and we won't bomb you. I would make sure on the first bombing you hit them twice. The first as the retaliation and the second when the world media gathers at the site. There will be plenty of terrorists jumping up and down for the world press. That is when the cluster bombs come in. You would kill off many of the enemy media at the same time, and provide a warning for the future.

This policy will have two benefits. It will lessen the suicide attacks and will eliminate Palestinian towns for a future over all solution....not that there will ever be one.

I would also kill Arafat, despite what the US says, after the next bombing. In the meantime I would be trying everything I could to have him die of "natural causes."

If Israel does not adopt something similar to the above then it’s all over baby; death by suicide…. although it will take a few more years.

Alfred

(we Americans of European descent don't understand this limted war ....we either have peace or fight a real war...none of this half-war stuff...that's for the idiot politicians to come up with)

[ibrodsky]

Announcing that 500 Palestinians will die for every Jew would ensure Israel's destruction.

The first reaction--one I have already heard--would be that Israel believes the life of one Jew is worth more than the lives of 500 Arabs.

Here are some better steps:

1. Invade Gaza. Give soldiers the green light to shoot anyone who resists. Call it Operation: Bring the Battle to the Mass Murderers.

2. Hunt down and capture or kill all members of Palestinian terrorist groups, including Arafat and his inner circle. Use the PR to highlight the fact that Yaser Arafat is The Father of Modern Terrorism and that Europe's esteem for this Jew-killer was to be expected.

3. Announce this policy: for every Jew killed 500 Palestinian homes will be destroyed. Do a better job publicizing Arab racism, incitement, and glorification of terrorist mass murder. Dub each attack in which five or more civilians are killed a "massacre" and ask why the world only tolerates genocide when practiced against Jews.

4. Offer financial incentives to Palestinians who agree to be relocated to Arab countries.

5. Always have enough terrorist targets under surveillance so that after a terrorist attack several locations can be bombed immediately. Understand that operations performed several days later (as appears will happen this weekend) are portrayed as "fresh violence."

[SteveMetch]

Alfred, while I’m certainly no fan of the Egyptians and Jordanians living in historic Israel I think your approach wouldn’t be directed properly at those most guilty of the current violence many of which do not even live in area. It’s also important to note that many of the Arabs living in Historic Israel want out of this hell hole and are trapped there by their Muslim “brothers” as pawns in wider conflict between Islam and everyone else.

The spirit though of your proposal is sound in that Israel needs to define in unambiguous terms a cause and effect relation between the current bloodshed. It’s also clear that the enemies of Israel place no value on their life or their children’s. As such, threatening the same will not produce the desired results of a lasting peace.

What they do value is the land. The land has a particular value to Muslims as it represents the last vestige of their perceived superiority of Islam over all others. To gradually lose Dar Al Islam to all these infidels is beyond their comprehension and inconsistent with their doctrines of Predestination and an all powerful Allah.

How about this modification to your idea?

Instead of 500 Arabs per suicide death how about x number of square miles of WB and Gaza per suicide death. The have the tanks and the tractors to do it. If they had implemented this policy after Oslo broke down this would already be a done deal.

Land for Peace has failed

Let’s try Peace or Land.

Come to think of it why stop at the borders. If Syria wants to keep sponsoring terror just keep on going.

[SteveMetch]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
5. Always have enough terrorist targets under surveillance so that after a terrorist attack several locations can be bombed immediately. Understand that operations performed several days later (as appears will happen this weekend) are portrayed as "fresh violence."

The fresher the better. If done quickly enough it will just sound like the echo from the suicide bomber.

Hows that for cause and effect.

[Communication]

Originally posted by ibrodsky

4. Offer financial incentives to Palestinians who agree to be relocated to Arab countries.



Every Arab country with the exception of Jordan maintains as official policy that any Arab can become a naturalized citizen of their country with the specific exception of "Palestinian" Arabs and Palestinian "Jews." And Jordan has made it clear that they won't allow an influx of Palestinians into their country.

[Mediocrates]

How about you don't name numbers or make excuses for the casualities you collect. Say

"If we are attacked we will utilize every weapon in our arsenal at our discretion to be directed at terrorists, their supporters or their infrastructure in any way shape or fashion as we will determine to best provide for the security of our own people.

There will be no advance warning and there will be no assumed restraint. Any terrorists captured not killed will be considered illegal combatants and will be detained incognito indefinitely and under military law. Any noncombatants captured not killed including media and aid agencies will be expelled from Israel and the disputed territories permanently. Any violation of this will be considered warfare by an illegal combatant under the above clause. This law stands in perpetuity or until such time as Israel rescinds it. That is all."

[minusthejihad]

Right now, on Haaretz, there is a picture of AL-Zuhar, the Hamas leader laying in a hospital bed.

Would it be that hard to send in a squadron of commandos and pull his feeble @ss out of there, dragging his feeble, evil @ss to a military jail for his tribunal?

[Revkha]

Here is another solution. It is an editorial from the 9/10/03 Jerusalem Post.
------------------------------------

Sep. 10, 2003
Editorial: Enough

The world will not help us; we must help ourselves. We must kill as many of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders as possible, as quickly possible, while minimizing collateral damage, but not letting that damage stop us. And we must kill Yasser Arafat, because the world leaves us no alternative.

No one seriously argues with the fact that Arafat was preventing Mahmoud Abbas, the prime minister he appointed, from combating terrorism, to the extent that was willing to do so. Almost no one seriously disputes that Abbas on whom Israel, the US, and Europe had placed all their bets failed primarily because Arafat retained control of much of the security apparatus, and that Arafat wanted him to fail.

The new prime minister, Ahmed Qurei, clearly will fare no better, since he, if anything, has been trying to garner more power for Arafat, not less.
Under these circumstances, the idea of exiling Arafat is gaining currency, but the standard objection is that he will be as much or more of a problem when free to travel the world than he is locked up in Ramallah.

If only three countries Britain, France, and Germany joined the US in a total boycott of Arafat this would not be the case. If these countries did not speak with Arafat, it would not matter much who did, and however much a local Palestinian leader would claim to consult with Arafat, his power would be gone.

But such a boycott will not happen. Only now, after more than 800 Israelis have died in three years of suicide bombings and other terrorist attacks, has Europe finally decided that Hamas is a terrorist organization. How much longer will it take before it cuts off Arafat? Yet Israel cannot accept a situation in which Arafat blocks any Palestinian break with terrorism, whether from here or in exile. Therefore, we are at another point in our history at which the diplomatic risks of defending ourselves are exceeded by the risks of not doing so.

Such was the case in the Six Day War, when Israel was forced to launch a preemptive attack or accept destruction. And when Menachem Begin decided to bomb the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981. And when Israel launched Operation Defensive Shield in Palestinian cities after the Passover Massacre of 2002.
In each case, Israel tried every fashion of restraint, every plea to the international community to take action that would avoid the need for "extreme" measures, all to no avail.
When the breaking point arrives, there is no point in taking half-measures. If we are going to be condemned in any case, we might as well do it right.

Arafat's death at Israel's hands would not radicalize Arab opposition to Israel; just the opposite. The current jihad against us is being fueled by the perception that Israel is blocked from taking decisive action to defend itself.

Arafat's survival and power are a test of the proposition that it is possible to pursue a cause through terror and not have that cause rejected by the international community. Killing Arafat, more than any other act, would demonstrate that the tool of terror is unacceptable, even against Israel, even in the name of a Palestinian state.
Arafat does not just stand for terror, he stands for the refusal to make peace with Israel under any circumstances and within any borders.

In this respect, there is no distinction, beyond the tactical, between him and Hamas. Europe's refusal to utterly reject him condemns Palestinians, no less than Israelis, to endless war and dooms the possibility of the two-state solution the world claims to seek.

While the prospect of a Palestinian power vacuum is feared by some, the worst of all worlds is what exists now: Terrorists attack Israel at will under the umbrella of legitimacy provided by Arafat. Hamas would not be able to fill a post-Arafat vacuum; on the contrary, Hamas would lose the cover it has today.

A word must be said here about the most common claim made by those who would not isolate Arafat, let alone kill him: that he is the elected leader of the Palestinian people. Even if Arafat was chosen in a truly free election (when does his term end?), which we would dispute, this does not close the question of his legitimacy.

Whom the Palestinians choose to lead them is none of our business, provided it is a free choice, and provided they do not opt for leaders who choose terror and aggression. So long as the Palestinians choose such a leadership, it should be held no more immune to counterattack by Israel than the Taliban and Saddam Hussein were by the United States.

We complain that a double standard is applied to us, and it is. But we cannot complain when we apply that double standard to ourselves. Arafat's survival, under our watchful eyes, is living testimony to our tolerance of that double standard. If we want another standard to be applied, we must begin by applying it ourselves.

[David_in_NYC]

The solution is to close down the refugee camps.

Give one week notice. All the former residents of the camps can have their choice of being resettled in Egypt, Jordan, or Syria.

Precisely on schedule, burn all the camps to the ground.

Anyone who wants to fight over it will get their fight and their wishes to die for their cause will be granted.

Israel needs to assert its right to self defense. Its very failure to defend itself is interpreted as a sign of weakness and not properly attributed to the nobility of Jewish conscience.

Jews need no longer feel guilty about defending our families and our people. The only thing that should sear the conscience now is failure to prevent more murders of Jews, even though the means to do so is readily at hand.

If we wait for the EU to sympathize, we will all be dead.

[humus_sapiens]

I really like SteveMetch's idea. Whatever measure we take, it must look an official policy to disable the enemy's future activities FOREVER (not a temporary knee-jerk reaction a-la encircling Muqata). Anything else is considered a weakness and only encourages more terror. Hit them where it hurts most.

[Alfred]

Originally posted by SteveMetch


Instead of 500 Arabs per suicide death how about x number of square miles of WB and Gaza per suicide death. The have the tanks and the tractors to do it. If they had implemented this policy after Oslo broke down this would already be a done deal.




Well, I like this idea and some others, but I do not think it will work.

If you take the land, it will not stop the violence in the short or medium turn and you will end up having to give it back in 5 years anyway. In the meantime, Israel's population and economy are being exterminated. There will be a final settlement sometime, probably imposed by the UN, and you will have to give all the land up.

Israel needs a way to stop the bombings now, today.

The only way, in my opinion, is total war. Beat the enemy so bad that they decide not to continue, or exterminate the enemy. If Germany had continued to fight we would have nuked them into extinction at some point. Same with Japan.

So, you need to make a choice. Die a death by a thousand cuts (current policy) or kill the enemy. The USA has chosen to kill the enemy in her war. Israel has chosen to talk, talk, talk and perhaps even talk.

There used to be an unwritten rule, I have read, that Israel had a 10 to 1 retaliation code back in the old days. I only propose 500 to 1 because time is short with the enemy getting nukes.

My point is that the battle needs to be escalated. Israel needs to admit to the world that the PA is engaged in "total war" with Israel and that Israel will start responding in kind. Ok, so perhaps you don't say the number 500. But Israel should make that the unwritten rule.

If you pre-site a portion of a city....say a Hamas stronghold...and then obliterate it after the next bombing, stating that your policy is to do likewise after further bombings, then you will get the PA's attention. Just do it the same day; fast, brutal, intense and quick.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by Alfred
Well, I like this idea and some others, but I do not think it will work.

If you take the land, it will not stop the violence in the short or medium turn and you will end up having to give it back in 5 years anyway. In the meantime, Israel's population and economy are being exterminated. There will be a final settlement sometime, probably imposed by the UN, and you will have to give all the land up.

Israel needs a way to stop the bombings now, today.

The only way, in my opinion, is total war. Beat the enemy so bad that they decide not to continue, or exterminate the enemy. If Germany had continued to fight we would have nuked them into extinction at some point. Same with Japan.

So, you need to make a choice. Die a death by a thousand cuts (current policy) or kill the enemy. The USA has chosen to kill the enemy in her war. Israel has chosen to talk, talk, talk and perhaps even talk.

There used to be an unwritten rule, I have read, that Israel had a 10 to 1 retaliation code back in the old days. I only propose 500 to 1 because time is short with the enemy getting nukes.

My point is that the battle needs to be escalated. Israel needs to admit to the world that the PA is engaged in "total war" with Israel and that Israel will start responding in kind. Ok, so perhaps you don't say the number 500. But Israel should make that the unwritten rule.

If you pre-site a portion of a city....say a Hamas stronghold...and then obliterate it after the next bombing, stating that your policy is to do likewise after further bombings, then you will get the PA's attention. Just do it the same day; fast, brutal, intense and quick.

Agreed. And the response should be immediate: bus blows up in Jerusalem, neighborhood blows up in Gaza. Don't want neighborhoods in Gaza to blow up? Don't blow up buses.

When dealing with Palestinian barbarians, the message must be very simple, direct, and sure to gain their full attention.

[SteveMetch]

Originally posted by Alfred
Well, I like this idea and some others, but I do not think it will work.

If you take the land, it will not stop the violence in the short or medium turn and you will end up having to give it back in 5 years anyway. In the meantime, Israel's population and economy are being exterminated. There will be a final settlement sometime, probably imposed by the UN, and you will have to give all the land up.

Israel needs a way to stop the bombings now, today.

The only way, in my opinion, is total war. Beat the enemy so bad that they decide not to continue, or exterminate the enemy. If Germany had continued to fight we would have nuked them into extinction at some point. Same with Japan.

So, you need to make a choice. Die a death by a thousand cuts (current policy) or kill the enemy. The USA has chosen to kill the enemy in her war. Israel has chosen to talk, talk, talk and perhaps even talk.

There used to be an unwritten rule, I have read, that Israel had a 10 to 1 retaliation code back in the old days. I only propose 500 to 1 because time is short with the enemy getting nukes.

My point is that the battle needs to be escalated. Israel needs to admit to the world that the PA is engaged in "total war" with Israel and that Israel will start responding in kind. Ok, so perhaps you don't say the number 500. But Israel should make that the unwritten rule.

If you pre-site a portion of a city....say a Hamas stronghold...and then obliterate it after the next bombing, stating that your policy is to do likewise after further bombings, then you will get the PA's attention. Just do it the same day; fast, brutal, intense and quick.

Here is the problem with the kill all the bastards approach. The Jordanian and Egyptians living in historic Israel are so pathetic when it comes to their true military capabilities. In WW2 the German’s and Japanese were formidable opponents. As such any direct military attack on the Muslims will be viewed as so one sided as to be “unfair”. In addition the resulting dead children is also something to consider both from a political as well as humanitarian stand point.

Another thought on the Peace or Land proposal.

The Land that would be on the table is the Land generally on the Arab side of the new wall. The most violent Muslims want all the Jews out of the Middle east. On reflection even setting up some kind of exchange Lives for Land would not work because the ones that are perpetuating the conflict want it all anyway.

Given this fact, the Peace or Land proposal would only serve as mechanism to legitimize the gradually removal of all Muslims from historic Israel. The probability that the terrorists would come to terms with a true division of land within a framework of lasting peace is highly unlikely.

Bottomline: Get all the land back. For religious reasons the True Muslims will hate you either way. The best approach is to meet their gradual violence with gradual land annexation. And as a consultation prize you'll end up killing the most violent among them as they oppose you in reclaiming your land.

[David_in_NYC]

Originally posted by SteveMetch
Here is the problem with the kill all the bastards approach. The Jordanian and Egyptians living in historic Israel are so pathetic when it comes to their true military capabilities. In WW2 the German’s and Japanese were formidable opponents. As such any direct military attack on the Muslims will be viewed as so one sided as to be “unfair”. In addition the resulting dead children is also something to consider both from a political as well as humanitarian stand point.


You're falling into the double-standards trap, where Israel must act like Jesus Christ and the rest of the planet is free to savagely murder.

First time someone says it's an unfair fight, remind them that suicide murder-bombings are even more unfair.

What's with the unrepressable Jewish urge to give mortal enemies a 50/50 chance at annihilating us?

[SteveMetch]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
You're falling into the double-standards trap, where Israel must act like Jesus Christ and the rest of the planet is free to savagely murder.

First time someone says it's an unfair fight, remind them that suicide murder-bombings are even more unfair.

What's with the unrepressable Jewish urge to give mortal enemies a 50/50 chance at annihilating us?

I agree that the world has forced a double standard on Israel. It seems though that Israel has accepted it or this War would already be over. It’s like watching a chained lion being beaten by monkey.

When elephants are young their trainers tie them down with a heavy rope. They initially try to break free of the rope but it is too strong. Latter as they mature in to adult elephants they still continue to tie them down with the same rope. The adult elephants still believe that they can’t break the rope even though now they have the strength too.

The rope that the United States had on Israel frayed after the Cold War ended and its only string after 9/11. I think its time Israel broke the string reclaimed their land and sent the Egyptians/Jordanians home and Arafat to hell.

Stop worrying about the French, Germans and Russian they would sell their own mothers to make a buck. As long as they can profit by trading with Israel they will be back.

[Alfred]

Originally posted by SteveMetch
I agree that the world has forced a double standard on Israel. It seems though that Israel has accepted it or this War would already be over. It’s like watching a chained lion being beaten by monkey.

When elephants are young their trainers tie them down with a heavy rope. They initially try to break free of the rope but it is too strong. Latter as they mature in to adult elephants they still continue to tie them down with the same rope. The adult elephants still believe that they can’t break the rope even though now they have the strength too.

The rope that the United States had on Israel frayed after the Cold War ended and its only string after 9/11. I think its time Israel broke the string reclaimed their land and sent the Egyptians/Jordanians home and Arafat to hell.

Stop worrying about the French, Germans and Russian they would sell their own mothers to make a buck. As long as they can profit by trading with Israel they will be back.


Very good analogies.


If Israel presented their new policy as both a carrot and stick. IE, we will always negotiate with a palestinian leader, assuming he is not Arafat, and we are going to start blowing the hell out of enemy neighborhoods with every suicide bombing (just like they are doing to us), thing may work out.

But frankly, the Israeli government is so innept at the moment. Look at the fiasco with Arafat. Announcing they are to remove Arafat and then backtracking. They sound like Clinton or Carter. Perhaps it is time for Sharon to step down for another Likud leader (who has NOT given Bush a promise regarding Arafat).

I am a conservative, but I do not think Sharon is doing a good job with regard to the war.

There is nothing Israel can do to make Europe happy. Even if Israel ceased to exist there would still be a "Jewish emmigration problem." Anything Europe sells or buys from Israel is subject to ban at any second. As time goes on it will become tougher and tougher to sell/buy with Europe. Things will not get friendlier over there.

Israel is in a position of strength for perhaps the last time. She is still a chained lion with idiot monkeys surrounding her. But the monkeys are beating her to death and pretty soon, some of these monkeys may become big gorillias (with nukes).

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by Alfred

But frankly, the Israeli government is so innept at the moment. Look at the fiasco with Arafat. Announcing they are to remove Arafat and then backtracking. They sound like Clinton or Carter. Perhaps it is time for Sharon to step down for another Likud leader (who has NOT given Bush a promise regarding Arafat).


I agree that announcing the plan to get rid of Arafat was foolish. However, I did not see any backtracking.

In fact, there is good news: today the Israeli government politely told the UNSC where to shove it--Israel has no intentions of forfeiting its right to self-defense. They aso said Israel is not interested in any kind of "ceasefire" with terrorist groups.

I can't wait to see more Palestinians swarming around dead Hamas savages...

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Alfred
If Israel presented their new policy as both a carrot and stick. IE, we will always negotiate with a palestinian leader, assuming he is not Arafat, and we are going to start blowing the hell out of enemy neighborhoods with every suicide bombing (just like they are doing to us), thing may work out.

...

Perhaps it is time for Sharon to step down for another Likud leader (who has NOT given Bush a promise regarding Arafat).


You're right.

Sharon doesn't really understand that Colin Powell's threats do not represent the realities of American politics.

Sharon needs to realize that America stands behind Israel's right to wage war against Islamic terrorism, and that the American voters, both Democrats and Republicans, support eliminating the Palestinian barriers to peace.

If Sharon cannot get rid of the Palestinian terrorist infrastructure, he should step down. Similarly, if Bush cannot see his way to support Israel's war against the same terrorists who carried out 9/11, he should also step down and give another Republican candidate the chance.