Lindh(R.I.P) Boycots Israeli products... oops

[Evgeny]

Lindh: Boycotting Israeli products is the least I
could do

By Yahya Abu Zakarya, IOL correspondent in Stockholm

STOCKHOLM, April 20 (IslamOnline)  Swedish Foreign
Minister Anna Lindh announced that she will boycott
Israeli products available in the Swedish market,
especially citrus fruits and avocadoes.

Speaking to Swedish television on Friday, April 19,
Lindh said, If Im unable to influence my
governments policy to boycott Israel, I can at least
personally boycott their products. She called on
Swedish nationals to boycott Israeli products in the
light of the recent massacres committed by the Israeli
army in the Palestinian territories.

Lindh is a member of the ruling Social Democratic
Party and has been sympathetic with Arab issues along
with other members of the Swedish government, such as
former Foreign Minister Stein Anderson, a personal
friend of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.

She had in the past asked the European Union to
suspend its relations with Israel as a way of
denouncing the occupation forces practices against the
Palestinian civilian population.

Meanwhile, the Palestinian minister for international
cooperation Nabil Shaath was visiting Stockholm on
Friday and met with Swedish Prime Minister Goeran
Persson who promised to donate 350 million Swedish Corona
(nearly $ 35 million) to rebuild Jenin and nearby
areas destroyed by Israeli aggression. Persson
promised to increase the sum soon.

Shaath also met with Lindh who expressed her shock at
recent events in the Palestinian territories and
promised to do her best to help the Palestinian
people.

Besides government officials, Swedish nationals have
also been sympathizing with the Palestinian cause,
many of them wearing badges that said boycott
Israel.

The streets of Stockholm on Thursday witnessed
demonstrations were banners were raised calling
hawkish Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon a mass
murder, and other saying Bush is a killer and
Zionism is Faschism. Jews in Sweden have also held
counter demonstrations and a few conflicts rose
between both sides that was stopped through police
intervention.

In the Swedish city of Uppsala on Friday, a silent
demonstration was held with demonstrators wearing
black and carrying candles.

The increasing number of Swedes participating in
anti-Israeli demonstrations has been noticeable and
has forced the Palestinian Issue to be featured on the
agenda of the Swedish Legislative elections which will
be held on September 2002.

[minusthejihad]

Originally posted by Evgeny
Lindh: Boycotting Israeli products is the least I
could do

By Yahya Abu Zakarya, IOL correspondent in Stockholm

STOCKHOLM, April 20 (IslamOnline)  Swedish Foreign
Minister Anna Lindh announced that she will boycott
Israeli products available in the Swedish market,
especially citrus fruits and avocadoes.

Speaking to Swedish television on Friday, April 19,
Lindh said, If Im unable to influence my
governments policy to boycott Israel, I can at least
personally boycott their products. She called on
Swedish nationals to boycott Israeli products in the
light of the recent massacres committed by the Israeli
army in the Palestinian territories.

Lindh is a member of the ruling Social Democratic
Party and has been sympathetic with Arab issues along
with other members of the Swedish government, such as
former Foreign Minister Stein Anderson, a personal
friend of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.

She had in the past asked the European Union to
suspend its relations with Israel as a way of
denouncing the occupation forces practices against the
Palestinian civilian population.

Meanwhile, the Palestinian minister for international
cooperation Nabil Shaath was visiting Stockholm on
Friday and met with Swedish Prime Minister Goeran
Persson who promised to donate 350 million Swedish Corona
(nearly $ 35 million) to rebuild Jenin and nearby
areas destroyed by Israeli aggression. Persson
promised to increase the sum soon.

Shaath also met with Lindh who expressed her shock at
recent events in the Palestinian territories and
promised to do her best to help the Palestinian
people.

Besides government officials, Swedish nationals have
also been sympathizing with the Palestinian cause,
many of them wearing badges that said boycott
Israel.

The streets of Stockholm on Thursday witnessed
demonstrations were banners were raised calling
hawkish Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon a mass
murder, and other saying Bush is a killer and
Zionism is Faschism. Jews in Sweden have also held
counter demonstrations and a few conflicts rose
between both sides that was stopped through police
intervention.

In the Swedish city of Uppsala on Friday, a silent
demonstration was held with demonstrators wearing
black and carrying candles.

The increasing number of Swedes participating in
anti-Israeli demonstrations has been noticeable and
has forced the Palestinian Issue to be featured on the
agenda of the Swedish Legislative elections which will
be held on September 2002.

Let's pour some Absolute on the curb for the sista that ain't here!

I ain't "missin on her" if you know what I mean.

[NewsGuy]

I think that the Swedes are among those who least understand the Mideast conflict.

I get the impression that Swedes are under the delusion that Palestinian society is like their own, where conflicts are settled by civilized negotiation and democracy is everywhere.

The Swedes apparently don't grasp that Palestinian society (and much of the Muslim world) is based on a culture of racism, religious hatred, violence, sexism, dictatorship, illiteracy, and Jihad-Genocide.

To the Swedes, it's as if the Mideast conflict is an argument between Norway and Denmark over whose Herring is better, or whose soccer team has the nicer shirts.

They don't related to the true Palestinian mentality, and they certainly have never seen daily suicide bombings.

So the Swedes find it romantic and quaint to support whom they perceive as the underdog, even though this underdog is a vile and murderous people.

[L@mplighterM]

Two of my friends visited Helsingborg, Sweden last July, they had been there for about 45 minutes when they witnessed skinheads verbally assaulting some blacks, and the cops were holding the skinheads back.

This morning I went into a store run by a Christian Iranian to buy some Dolmars (Yuck! They aren’t for me!). The guy has a brother that lives in Sweden and he asked me what I thought about the murder of the Swedish foreign minister. I told him good riddance!

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by L@mplighterM
good riddance!

Agreed.

[danholo]

Unfortunately Sweden does "enjoy" a large population of active neo-Nazis. While Finland, like any other country, has neo-Nazis among the normal population they are few and far between and have little to no support. I wonder why the phenomenon is so different between the two neighbors.

[Mediocrates]

The "Neutrality Effect". See also Switzerland asnd Vichy France.

But countries like Denmark who were overrun by the Nazis, boatlifted all of their Jews to safety.

[Mil]

Who cares.....

[Evgeny]

sick to see people celebrate the death of someone like that. Did you think about her family?

Swedes have more neo-Nazi's then Finland because Swede's have this dumb concept of how they are the better of all Nordic countries in racial purity. Finns have a large amount of Nordic blood but also alot of Ugriac blood close to estonians, hungarians, and native peoples of the northen urals.

[Formula]

Yeah and im sure she was weeping every time she heard about a suicide bomb go off in Israel. :rolleyes:


Good Riddance indeed.

[L@mplighterM]

Originally posted by Evgeny
sick to see people celebrate the death of someone like that. Did you think about her family?



Celebrating someone’s death?

Saying good riddance is quite different from celebrating someone’s death.

[Evgeny]

Originally posted by Formula
Yeah and im sure she was weeping every time she heard about a suicide bomb go off in Israel. :rolleyes:


Good Riddance indeed.

and how do you know that?

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Evgeny
and how do you know that?


yet you claim it's jewish terrorism all the same.

[Evgeny]

Lie. i said maybe the JDL or some fanatic hasidic Jew killed her. Or maybe it was just a comman crimenal. i dunno.

[Frans_1]

Was anyone threatening to kill Anne Lindh ?

[Mediocrates]

No and Swedish politicans make it a point to never have a security detail and to walk around in the open and be down with the peeps. Prime Minister Palme was shot to death leaving a movie theater 17 years ago and to this day they have no suspects and no leads.

[Northlander]

total ignorance as always. Please stick to debating israeli and american issues. Non of you qualify for anything else.


a vile and murderous people.

yeah right.


Two of my friends visited Helsingnør, Sweden last July, they had been there for about 45 minutes when they witnessed skinheads verbally assaulting some blacks, and the cops were holding the skinheads back.

There are no such city in Sweden. Zero credability as I said.

If you mean Helsingborg its true that there are some skins there.
for some reason they are overrepresented the closer you come to denmark which is the country with true racist problems in scandinavia. Even Danholo is misstaken in this. Germany also has far more problems with right-wing extremists like skinheads than we do. France and the benelux countries too and especially Austria.

Its a problem but not a big one and not unique. They mostly get their heads smacked when showing on the streets.


Unfortunately Sweden does "enjoy" a large population of active neo-Nazis. While Finland, like any other country, has neo-Nazis among the normal population they are few and far between and have little to no support. I wonder why the phenomenon is so different between the two neighbors.

You are wrong. Im honestly sad that you belive that. I have been in every single country in Europe and Stockholm is absolutely one of the least racist and most tolerant cities. Finland has always refused to take their share of immigrants so you have far less cultural clashes than France,Sweden or Germany for example.


No and Swedish politicans make it a point to never have a security detail and to walk around in the open and be down with the peeps. Prime Minister Palme was shot to death leaving a movie theater 17 years ago and to this day they have no suspects and no leads.

No threats towards Anna Lindh no, exept she was the leading female european politician with probalby at least some people not to fond of her and that we were in the end of a dirty campain and an election on the Euopean Monetary Union.

Both our police and our security service are totally incompetent.

Anna was a great politician and woman. Most of her political adversarys liked and respected her. Im not surprised though that some of you fanatics applause her death. There just cant be enough blood for you I guess.

In the event of Palme there are both suspects and leads but just no evidence. Stick to subjects you know.

[danholo]

You are wrong. Im honestly sad that you belive that. I have been in every single country in Europe and Stockholm is absolutely one of the least racist and most tolerant cities. Finland has always refused to take their share of immigrants so you have far less cultural clashes than France,Sweden or Germany for example.

I'm not talking about Stockholm. I have been there. Lovely city. How many neo-Nazis would you find in New York? They wouldn't survive there long.

My comparison was mainly concerned about the fact that although both Sweden and Finland are small countries, Sweden does have an active and more vocal population of neo-Nazis - but of course you have your racists in Finland too. This, of course, might be because of the low rate of immigrants in Finland but our tiny Somalian refugee population has been a victim of various hate-crimes like beatings - but this has happened mainly in smaller cities.

[minusthejihad]

We've got the token pure Russian on the board instantly crying "it could be the JDL" and the token Swede defending a fellow Israel-hater and assuring us that because HE traveled around Europe, HE has somehow become a Racism barometer.

Stick to this!

[danholo]

.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Northlander

In the event of Palme there are both suspects and leads but just no evidence. Stick to subjects you know.



Ditto, Homes.

[Leon]

Anna was a great politician and woman. Most of her political adversarys liked and respected her. Im not surprised though that some of you fanatics applause her death. There just cant be enough blood for you I guess.

No-one is applausing her death- but at the same time no-one here will shed any tears for her death! A great politician? Someone who places a one-sided boycott on a tiny country which was fighting terrorists who were murdering mothers , grandmothers, toddlers and school children?

Lindh was the epitmoe of a bigot- where were the boycotts on Russia over its occupation of Checnya? China over Tibet? Indonesia over East Timor and Aceh? Where was her outrage and boycott against the Palestinian Authority for teaching its people from a very young age- bigotry, intolerance, racism, voilence and murder? WHere was her outrage when innocent people were been subjected to mass genocide? Why should tears be shed for such a person?

As someone said- she had a swedish perception that the Arab-israeli conflict was like a disput b.w Norway and Sweden.

[Justcurious]

Following the killing of Anna Lindh in a department store in Stockholm in September, the suspect, Mihailo Mihailovic, has now admitted that he was the murderer.

No link in English yet, but this is what a Swedish evening paper writes on its first page:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,415420,00.html

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Justcurious
No link in English yet
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040107/wl_nm/sweden_lindh_dc

[Communication]

Here is a link that provides all of the places where you can buy Israeli products in the Bay Area:

http://www.israelemb.org/sanfran/israeli_foods.html

Does the area where you live have something like this? Perhaps it does and you aren't aware of it? If your area doesn't have such a guide, maybe they should. PLEASE, PLEASE, email your local Jewish Community Relations Council, providing them with the above link and ask them what they have for your local area. Many of us spend a lot of time here and I would be very disappointed if that's where your support ended. It takes a few seconds to send an email. Please be proactive!

[elke]

Originally posted by Communication
Here is a link that provides all of the places where you can buy Israeli products in the Bay Area:

http://www.israelemb.org/sanfran/israeli_foods.html

Does the area where you live have something like this? Perhaps it does and you aren't aware of it? If your area doesn't have such a guide, maybe they should. PLEASE, PLEASE, email your local Jewish Community Relations Council, providing them with the above link and ask them what they have for your local area. Many of us spend a lot of time here and I would be very disappointed if that's where your support ended. It takes a few seconds to send an email. Please be proactive!

Great idea! I will certainly do so!

In my area, the local supermarket has a large Kosher aisle, which carries quite a few Israeli products. Every week, I make it a point to buy at least $10 worth of Israeli-made goods. All the presents I get, - except for toys, - are Israeli-made. A bottle of Carmel wine, for example, makes a great gift for Birthdays, anniversaries, or holidays; - as does a box of Elite chocolates. The wine can be purchased in many regular liquor stores.

Because I have seen all sorts of obviously non-Jewish people in this aisle, dazedly fingering packages with Hebrew lettering, ;) - I think, it may also be a good idea to contact your local supermarket, possibly in a group with interested friends, - to request that they purchase products from Israeli manufacturers. One nice lady, apparently at a loss about what she was looking at, and as my physiognomy gives me away as the member of the Chosen, - told me that she comes here once a month from Kentucky (I live in Northern New Jersey) - specifically to buy Israeli-made products, on behalf of her church! She shouldn't have to go this far!

[Kev]

I'm not even Jewish, yet I end up with tons of Kosher items per week.
Partner doesnt keep a kosher home either, I should say.
Still not sure why we have so much kosher food, but hey, I dont mind, weve done a little bit to help! :D


Oh, and we go to all the Israeli markets that come to town and stock up

[Communication]

"Go ladies! Go ladies!" Woop, there it is! :cool:


See, that's what I'm talking aboot (for the Canadians).

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Kev
Still not sure why we have so much kosher food, but hey, I dont mind, weve done a little bit to help!
If it's kosher but not Israeli made, you're just helping the manufacturer.

In the US and Canada, the reason why you find so many kosher products is because it's profitable for the manufacturer to produce them, plain and simple.

[L@mplighterM]

I bought a kosher Hanukah present for my daughters ex teachers cat.
Meeeeeeeeeeeeow!

Kosher meats are far more expensive than buying from a regular deli actually somewhere around twice as much.

[Justcurious]

The court hearing of the suspect began on 14th Jan. You can listen to the court hearing live! Click on "Lyssna direkt på P1". The address of the site is Swedish Radio at http://www.sr.se/.

The afternoon hearing will continue after lunch, so try at 12.30 GMT.

[Leon]

Originally posted by Justcurious
The court hearing of the suspect began on 14th Jan. You can listen to the court hearing live! Click on "Lyssna direkt på P1". The address of the site is Swedish Radio at http://www.sr.se/.

The afternoon hearing will continue after lunch, so try at 12.30 GMT.

Will there be an art presentation dedicated to her murderer at any Swedish art exhibition? Or will Israel do the honors....

[Oh Jerusalem]

I wish someone would put out a sticker for current Volvo owners that says something like: SWEDISH CAR? NEVER AGAIN!

It should be de rigor for all Knesset members.

[Ahava]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
I wish someone would put out a sticker for current Volvo owners that says something like: SWEDISH CAR? NEVER AGAIN!

It should be de rigor for all Knesset members.

You should look at a boycott-Israel list, poor people who really wanna boycott Israel. There's so much on the list which I definitely wouldn't wanna miss, you can't go shopping in all the nice stores in England like Marks&Spencers, you can't buy a Nokia phone, and you can't go to Disneyland for I don't know what reason!
By the way, I have the e-mail address of someone who owns a boycott-israel site, anyone who's interested and wants to tell that person what you think of him, feel free to send me a PM. ;)

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Ahava
and you can't go to Disneyland for I don't know what reason!
Timon is Jewish.

[abu afak]

Two of my friends visited Helsingnor, Sweden last July, they had been there for about 45 minutes when they witnessed skinheads verbally assaulting some blacks, and the cops were holding the skinheads back.



Originally posted by Northlander
[B]total ignorance as always. Please stick to debating israeli and american issues. Non of you qualify for anything else......

There are no such city in Sweden. Zero credability as I said.

If you mean Helsingborg its true that there are some skins there.
for some reason they are overrepresented the closer you come to denmark which is the country with true racist problems in scandinavia.


You would think someone who Lived on Sweden would know that [There is a] Helsingor (not 'nor), Denmark and it is right across from Helsin[b]gborg, Sweden:
(in fact, a short ferry that leaves every 20 minutes)

http://www.dfdsseaways.co.uk/pd/entry.nsf/direct/uk?OpenDocument&Display=uktravel.nsf/W/T-OtherConnectingFerries-HelsingorDenmarktoHelsingborgSweden

and point to that as the probable confusion.


What's troubling is you know even less about the the I-P Conflict than about Scandinavia.

[Da Chuckstar]

If you want a list of products to buy and companies to support, look no further than here:

http://www.boycottisrael.org/default.htm

Let us use their own racist agenda against them. Religion of peace my ass.

And to the person who said that Marks & Spencer is one of the targets of the boycott, I wish I knew this earlier because just last week when I was in Singapore, I walked into a Marks & Spencer store and I didn't buy anything. [Smacks self across head]

[Justcurious]

Originally posted by elke
A bottle of Carmel wine, for example, makes a great gift for Birthdays, anniversaries, or holidays; - as does a box of Elite chocolates. The wine can be purchased in many regular liquor stores.

A bottle of Avdat Red Carmel Wine sells here in Northern Europe for 6.99 € (USD 8.66). Drinkable, but not one of my favourites. How much is it elsewhere?

[elke]

Originally posted by Justcurious
A bottle of Avdat Red Carmel Wine sells here in Northern Europe for 6.99 € (USD 8.66). Drinkable, but not one of my favourites. How much is it elsewhere?

Around $10 somewhere, here in New Jersey.

There was this wine I got for my dad's Birthday last summer, which turned out AWESOME!

I don't remember what it was called though, 'cause I am really stupid on things like that. I'll see if I can find out what exactly it was, if you're interested. It was a dessert wine - sweet.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by elke
Around $10 somewhere, here in New Jersey.

There was this wine I got for my dad's Birthday last summer, which turned out AWESOME!

I don't remember what it was called though, 'cause I am really stupid on things like that. I'll see if I can find out what exactly it was, if you're interested. It was a dessert wine - sweet. Yarden is my home favorit in family dinners. Mount Hermon Red. Also Carmel Mizrahi : Baron Rothchild is a very nice series. Segal is considered to be very good and quite expansive.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Justcurious
A bottle of Avdat Red Carmel Wine sells here in Northern Europe for 6.99 € (USD 8.66). Drinkable, but not one of my favourites. How much is it elsewhere?
That's Carmel's lowest of the low. I would only use it for cooking.

Why do they even bother exporting it? :confused: They've got plenty of excellent varieties. Stupid marketing for sure.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
That's Carmel's lowest of the low. I would only use it for cooking.

Why do they even bother exporting it? :confused: They've got plenty of excellent varieties. Stupid marketing for sure.

Maybe because we keep the good staff for our own... :)

We have good wines. Pity they are hard to find elsewhere in the world.

[andak01]

Here's this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3409365.stm

[andak01]

Here's the original Expressen article about the murder. And please, don't anyone call me a terrorist sympathizer for referring to someone, regardless of their politics, being stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen, as a murder. That's just my crazy slant on things.

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=62124

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by andak01
Here's the original Expressen article about the murder. And please, don't anyone call me a terrorist sympathizer for referring to someone, regardless of their politics, being stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen, as a murder. That's just my crazy slant on things.

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=62124

That's right. We should point out that you are a terrorist sympathizer, America hater, and whitewasher of Islamism based on the specific incriminating statements you have made.

Your attempt above to accuse yourself based on irrelevant evidence and then declare yourself innocent is just another example of the twisted logic you employ to deceive others.

Here is your statement excusing jihad-genocide, and why you should be condemned for attempting to whitewash Islamist crimes against humanity:


Statement made by andak01 in another thread Suicide bombing is a last resort for people who have no armies and no significant weaponry. With an army of a million and nuclear bombs, it isn't necessary or desirable. I might be able to find a point in Chinese history where a group resorted to suicide warfare out of desparation. That has happened almost everywhere at some point. The same is true for terrorism.

[andak01]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
Statement made by andak01 in another thread Suicide bombing is a last resort for people who have no armies and no significant weaponry. With an army of a million and nuclear bombs, it isn't necessary or desirable. I might be able to find a point in Chinese history where a group resorted to suicide warfare out of desparation. That has happened almost everywhere at some point. The same is true for terrorism.

Yeah, I said that. Describing what murder is doesn't make me a murderer. If I said that the Kamikazes were desparate it doesn't mean that I wanted to partake of the rape of Nanking. You are the one twisting things here, based on your own preconceptions.

I won't make a statement in every single post about my moral repulsion with suicide bombing just because you think I should. But for the record, for those of you who, unlike Ibrodsky haven't read my condemnations of Bin Laden, Saddam, suicide bombings, anti-semitism and a host of other issues that Ibrodsky thinks I'm lying about, I am revulsed. And just because I don't end every single sentence with "Islamist mass murderers" doesn't mean I aspire to be one.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by andak01
Yeah, I said that. Describing what murder is doesn't make me a murderer. If I said that the Kamikazes were desparate it doesn't mean that I wanted to partake of the rape of Nanking. You are the one twisting things here, based on your own preconceptions.

I won't make a statement in every single post about my moral repulsion with suicide bombing just because you think I should. But for the record, for those of you who, unlike Ibrodsky haven't read my condemnations of Bin Laden, Saddam, suicide bombings, anti-semitism and a host of other issues that Ibrodsky thinks I'm lying about, I am revulsed. And just because I don't end every single sentence with "Islamist mass murderers" doesn't mean I aspire to be one.

There's just one problem. I never said you were a murderer. I said that you made excuses for terrorism.

You said "Suicide bombing is a last resort for people who have no armies and no significant weaponry." Actually, the people of Israel had no real army and no significant weapons when Israel's War of Independence began in 1948. But it was the Arabs who attacked Jewish civilians, while the Jews attacked the Arab armies. The Israelis "weapon of last resort" wasn't killing innocent civilians, because they knew that would not help Israel survive. Their "weapon of last resort" was determination, courage, and ingenuity.

Nor do I depend on just one paragraph to conclude you sympathize with Islamist terrorists. You have systematically trivialized the current worldwide epidemic of Islamist terrorism. You try to convince people that everyone has used terrorism at one time or another; that it is a natural tactic; and that the number and frequency of Islamist mass murder attacks is nothing out of the ordinary.

Plus, you have jumped to defend people and groups associated with terrorism (such as CAIR), while denouncing people such as Daniel Pipes and John Ashcroft who are trying to fight this scourge.

Given all of that, your claim that you oppose terrorism rings hollow. Yaser Arafat and Basher Assad claim they, too, oppose terrorism. It's a little word game they play: blowing up teenage Israeli girls at a disco is "legitimate resistance," while IDF raids to capture/kill the people who plan and organize such horrendous bombings is "state terrorism."

I wanted to believe you are a moderate. But you proved me wrong.

[andak01]

Originally posted by ibrodsky
[B]There's just one problem. I never said you were a murderer. I said that you made excuses for terrorism.

Saying what terrorism is isn't the same as making excuses for it. Charles Manson was a sort of terrorist. He felt he had some sort of sick political message and he used murder as a way of publicizing it. Do you think I want to join the Family because I would describe him as a last resort type? Last resorters are almost always losers like the kamikazes. And like the kamikazes, they require some rather extreme endoctrination.


The Israelis "weapon of last resort" wasn't killing innocent civilians, because they knew that would not help Israel survive.

That's exactly the problem. By disrupting the peace process, the PAL terrorists keep Palestinians in their wretched conditions, which in turn is a ripe breeding ground for more terrorists. Their reward isn't 72 virgins, it's knowing that, as long as Palestine is a hole, there is a chance of uniting other Arab countries to make war with Israel and perhaps destroy her. A peaceful, successful state of Palestine would dash all hopes of this. It's sick really.


You have systematically trivialized the current worldwide epidemic of Islamist terrorism.

Because I follow the numbers produced by our own State Department, rather than saying there are 200 million probable terrorists?


You try to convince people that everyone has used terrorism at one time or another; that it is a natural tactic; and that the number and frequency of Islamist mass murder attacks is nothing out of the ordinary.

I never said that. What I said was there are precidents in other religions and cultures.


Plus, you have jumped to defend people and groups associated with terrorism (such as CAIR), while denouncing people such as Daniel Pipes and John Ashcroft who are trying to fight this scourge.

Actually, I've said some nice things about Ashcroft's treatment of hate crimes. Denouncing Daniel Pipes doesn't make me a terrorist sympathizer. Like yourself, he says nice things about moderate Islam, then decries anyone who espouses it as a liar.


Given all of that, your claim that you oppose terrorism rings hollow.

I'm sure it always will with you.


I wanted to believe you are a moderate. But you proved me wrong.

Why am I so dubious? Perhaps I hold the same scepticism of you that you have of me. It's rather difficult to sift through your posts and find where you held up the olive branch. Mozel Tov.

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by andak01
Saying what terrorism is isn't the same as making excuses for it. Charles Manson was a sort of terrorist. He felt he had some sort of sick political message and he used murder as a way of publicizing it. Do you think I want to join the Family because I would describe him as a last resort type? Last resorters are almost always losers like the kamikazes. And like the kamikazes, they require some rather extreme endoctrination.

That's exactly the problem. By disrupting the peace process, the PAL terrorists keep Palestinians in their wretched conditions, which in turn is a ripe breeding ground for more terrorists. Their reward isn't 72 virgins, it's knowing that, as long as Palestine is a hole, there is a chance of uniting other Arab countries to make war with Israel and perhaps destroy her. A peaceful, successful state of Palestine would dash all hopes of this. It's sick really.

Because I follow the numbers produced by our own State Department, rather than saying there are 200 million probable terrorists?

I never said that. What I said was there are precidents in other religions and cultures.

Actually, I've said some nice things about Ashcroft's treatment of hate crimes. Denouncing Daniel Pipes doesn't make me a terrorist sympathizer. Like yourself, he says nice things about moderate Islam, then decries anyone who espouses it as a liar.

Why am I so dubious? Perhaps I hold the same scepticism of you that you have of me. It's rather difficult to sift through your posts and find where you held up the olive branch. Mozel Tov.

andak01, on numerous occasions you have tried to shift the blame for Islamist terrorism to the victims. You claim that military action taken in self-defense breeds more terrorists, when the record clearly shows that military action disrupts Islamist terrorist groups and has forced several evil Arab/Muslim regimes to modify their behavior.

If your assertions were limited to disagreeing about the best way to fight terrorism, I would only consider you guilty of poor judgment. Unfortunately, your systematic efforts to trivialize and excuse Islamist mass murder (by, for example, bringing up the JDL and Kahane as evidence that Jews are also on a rampage killing and destroying) demonstrate otherwise.

Let's take the Charles Manson example to its conclusion. If this forum was all about supporting the victims of criminal mass murderers, what would a reasonable person think of someone who kept pointing out that Manson was desperate and frustrated, that other desperate and frustrated individuals have committed mass murder in other times and places, and focused on smearing those fighting mass murderers while whitewashing others who clearly support them morally and financially?

Your position regarding Israel appears to be moderate, but is it? You have admitted that you suppress some of your real views to avoid being expelled from forums such as this one. So please don't act surprised that I don't trust you. But look at your statement above: it is an exercise in denial and blame shifting. Once again, you blame terrorism on harsh living conditions rather than Evil people. I don't know whether you really believe the Palestinians are fighting for a state they have repeatedly rejected and never demanded prior to 1967, but I do know that your prescription for Israel is designed to help Muslims--not Jews.

You despise Daniel Pipes, who is focused on fighting 21st century Nazism, a.k.a. Islamism, and you support CAIR, a group that has defended convicted terrorists and two of whose own leaders have been arrested.

The punchline is that you are here to see if you can find a few liberal Jews who desperately want to believe the Muslim world means them no harm and convince them that Islam is a peaceful religion and that US imperialism and Israeli extremism are the real culprits.

Rest assured, I won't let you get away with it.

[jewbyc]

Originally posted by ibrodsky


The punchline is that you are here to see if you can find a few liberal Jews who desperately want to believe the Muslim world means them no harm and convince them that Islam is a peaceful religion and that US imperialism and Israeli extremism are the real culprits.

Rest assured, I won't let you get away with it.
I am semi liberal and you wil never convince me that any muslim has Israel or Jews best interest in mind. I guess that means I am semi conservative as well ;)

I will state my challenge 1 more time prove to me andko That there is such thing as moderate islam and i will show a horse that Sh@t* gold. :D

[Berkovic]

The ladt got what she needed!

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Berkovic
The ladt got what she needed!

Good one, jewbyc, there is no such thing as a moderate-Muslim, nor will there ever be, in my opinion. If there is ‘one’, hell, come on down… I honestly wish, I could believe in their existence, but the proof is in the murder, mayhem and the dead-silence of the so called “moderates”.
Let us know if you ever find that horse!

[Justcurious]

RichardP, is there any reason why a religion should be mixed with this deed? His religion could have been any. During the case the significance of a religion has never been mentioned, neither by the guilty or by the people who accused him.

[RichardP]

Originally posted by Justcurious
RichardP, is there any reason why a religion should be mixed with this deed? His religion could have been any. During the case the significance of a religion has never been mentioned, neither by the guilty or by the people who accused him.
Perhaps not, Justcurious, but it seems to permeate much of everything else these days... besides, I was not speaking about the Lindh murder... it was in answer to jewbc's post about muslim-moderates... to be or not to be! And the horse with the talented ass... :D cheers!