Anti-Israel media

[Flame]

Without cable I"m stuck with nbc cbs and abc... which are all pro-arab... I just don't understand why a nation with western judao-christian values are making such an effort to brainwash (non-FOX) watchers of america to sympathize with terrorism and islam. Just don't get it at ALL! As much as I did not like Reagan... this slant would not be happening. And from what I understand... ronnie is the one who ordered Sharon to stop just as Israel was about to squash arafat.

[raven]

Lamp..you and I agree. Shallow PR cosmetics COUNT. We wish that values and beliefs stood on their own but they dont seem to. The Arabs are good at PR and we can do the same and SHOULD. Unfortuanately PRETTY counts too. We have to get that thru our minds and use it just like the Arab World does. You would think that this is a no brainer..These days the value of the best idea does NOT stand on its own. Its needs an attractive background to SELL. Just like toothpaste, and cars, and air conditioneers, alas. Its terrible but it is the reality here in America.

[L@mplighterM]

Glamour and looks sells especially to a male audience and that?s a reality anywhere in the world. There?s color, shapes and the like that influences opinions as well. The fact is that Sharon is finally awakening to the reality of PR. Many people have to be spoon fed information and even then they can?t digest it.

If it was me and I had the funding I would launch a massive media campaign immediately. Make a commercial of little children at play and then show a suicide bomber doing his filthy evil deed. Have a picture of Arafat and tell the world that this man said it was OK use his own words.. Run it like an advertisement campaign (worldwide) magazines TV, radio, magazines and newspapers. Within a month Arafat would be the most hated man on this planet.

[L@mplighterM]

Talking about Israel?s lack about PR work here?s an excerpt from an article from www.aftenposten.no April 1,2002


Israel burde lette beleiringen av palestineres president Yasser Arafat, sa Israels utenriksminister Shimon Peres, mandag.




Peres kom med bestemt kritikk av sin regjerings politikk.
- Vi må ikke narre oss selv. Vi kan ikke løse problemet ved å sette opp en felle, dette er veldig komplisert, sa Peres i en nasjonal TV-sending.
Peres sa også at Arafat var den første palestiner som anerkjente staten Israel og som er gått fra terrorisme til forhandlinger.

Translated it reads that Israel should ease up on the way it?s handling Arafat. Peres is criticizing his own goverment.

The last sentence states that Arafat was the first Palestinian that recognized the state of Israel and went from a terrorist to a negotiator.

Perhaps Israel should throw Peres in the same room with Arafat so they can work out a deal.

I cant believe my own eyes.

[Flame]

Raven, Lamp, Newsguy... did you get my message? I'm still shaking. Still in shock.

[L@mplighterM]

What's happening????????????? I got no email message Flame.

[Flame]

Lamp... do you knw how to check your Israelforum message folder? Let me know if its there ... I can re-send it. I don't want to post this on the board.

[Flame]

If you guys didn't get the message about what I heard this morning on the radio... I can re-send it... I have to go out for a while and will be back in about an hour.

[L@mplighterM]

Done Flame.

[Flame]

Great! (((((Just got back. )))) Thank goodness Rush Limbaugh is as vocal as he is. From what people say who have cable... FOX isn't going along with the propaganda spin. I"m still amazed that people really see Israel as the next thing to hitler.

The only comparison I can think of which isn't the same... is if militant blacks in the government housing projects decided they live under a brutal occupation and want a country of their own in the US... if they used pal style tactics ... how long would America put up with even a week of suicide bombers? If they were being funded by some radical faction in Africa... woudn't the US make that infor available and how many American's would go along with the cause? Most people here are against reparations. Could lead to viloent culture clashes?

[Flame]

Okay... found out the radio guests name... Jerri Bird from the Partners in Peace... Raven you must know about her and the org? The radio hostess can't wait to have her on again.

[raven]

I dont know about"Partners In (For?) Peace"...So many bogus Peace type Committess and Associations.

In the beginning the Pals used a hapless girl from Baltimore named Segal. They are doing the same with the Shapiro boy now. The more things change...the more they stay the same.... I think Steven Emersons first book describes how they the Pals target Peace type Americans and Jews...the prize being the "capture and win over" of an ideolistic Jew. Emersons book is "American House of Saud"...

This is where I first learned of the concerted effort to recruit on Campus by the Pals. This is why you see so much money poured into the Colleges and Universities...to establish Dept.s and Chairs in Islamic Studies and in Foreign Serivce Schools. They make a big splash, open these Departments, ship many of their agents discused as students to these colleges and get about the business of recruiting Americans of all types. Handouts of entrance to schools, money, social status, parties, apartments...No end to the bribery. This was done big time in the 80's and now it is paying off. Israel did no such thing. Nothing. They decided to stand on their ideas alone. No big infusion of money and agents to propagandize...Again we didnt play the same game and lost some support.

If you are going to be in the real world...and be with the big boys and girls...you MUST play the same games. Or you LOOOSE...Like the boy on Survivor. He played the game, like the others, but he played it with ethics. Israel can do the same.

[Flame]

Not an innocent by any means... older lady... sounded like a david duke member posing as a peace activist... she ended by saying... my favorite quote is God is not a realestate agent.

If you run a serach in yahoo with her name... that site and others come up... thought you would have heard of her

[raven]

Believe me, this so called activist you heard payed good money for that PR vetted phrase "G-d isnt a real estate Agent". Short, to the point, easy to remember, riduculing in nature...Perfect PR for Pals. Did she pretend to be so called "even handed"? Or have they dropped all pretense of that?

[Flame]

http://www.mafhoum.com/press/53S22.htm
http://www.islam-australia.iinet.net.au/SharonsBottomLine.html

These sites have info about her and her group

[L@mplighterM]

It?s difficult to even speculate what position the US will have tomorrow. Today on jpost.com I read that the IDF found an incriminating letter. Here?s part of the story:


Documents show link between militants, Palestinian leadership




JERUSALEM (AP) - The army said it found a letter at Yasser Arafat's compound, written by a militant group to Arafat's chief financial officer, requesting money needed to make up to nine bombs a week.

The document details costs incurred by the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militia linked to Arafat's Fatah movement, and
was found in the office of Fuad Shobaki, chief financial
officer for the Palestinian Authority, said intelligence officer Col. Miri Eisin.

"I call it a terror invoice, of how much terrorism costs," she told a news conference.

The letter was among documents seized after tanks and troops stormed into Arafat's compound Friday, following a wave of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.

Of course if Arafat is called to explain it?ll be the same I?ll investigate BS. As far as I?m concerned this should be enough evidence to brand him and the whole g-d damn PA, PLO and whatever you want to add to that terrorists.
They also found printing plates to print Israeli currency. Same trick the Nazis (I believe my memory serves me correctly) were up to during WWII.

[raven]

Arab American Discrimination..whatever is the Zogby Family. The business of this Lebonese Christian entire Family is to lobby against Israel and FOR any kind of Arab Organization and Cause. The Fathers, the sons, the Uncles the Cousins, are all involved in one way or the other in this business. There is about 8 or 9 of them involved in 24/7 trashing Israel and JEWS.

One of the brothers branched out into Polling. He is being extremely careful NOT to be inaccurate. What he wants to do, is build up a reputation over the years for accuracy and THEN...slip false anti Israel results into his polls. We are definately watching for that. We know it is comming. For the regular public John or James (which one is which?) does not mention Israel and his families and his older business...but when he doesnt appear in connection with his polling business, he stands by while the worst slandar is hurled at Israel. These are some set of human beings.

What they are doing with this lady you heard, is what they did 20 years ago with people like the Segal girl. Its the exact same thing. They try to feature Jews and they try to feature sympathethic figures, like older women, espeically like to use Christian Clergy- love to feature other minorities--- Cover all the bases so to speak.

Meanwhile, last week American FBI and other groups raided 14 different Northern Va. Arab so called Charities and Businesses. These same Zogbies who support this lady, supported all those cover associations for Terrorism.

Follow this ladie's money...Look at her sister's or brother's bank account. Who in her family got into what college with what grades? Who is working for friends of friends of the Zogby's in her family? There are goodies to be handed out to these people who support the Pals. Always follow the money. You will find it. Not with the person at the exact time...but with friends and relatives and 10 years down the line...the person herself.

[Flame]

Raven... if you go to jpost they have a little area to send a question or comment to The IDF Chief of General Staff, Lt. Gen. Shaul Mofaz, --- I just emailed to ask if they realize that all major networks are totally anti-israel and if they have any plans to counter the propaganda... and mentioned the clip of him and sharon with the captions.

[raven]

Thanks...Ill go there.

Dan Rather is on CNN and is very Pro Israel. Hope he stays that way. Have to balance Peter Jennings who has been an advocate for a Pal. State since the 80's. Married to a Lebonese woman at one time, in the Arab Social Circle and had a "thing" with Hanan Ashwahi.

Know that Geraldo Rivera has also been an active Pal. supporter. This isnt new for him. Depite the facts, he still sees the Pals. and minority indiginious peoples of the area. Plus it is good biz. for him.

[L@mplighterM]

If any radio station had enough guts to have a guest on a radio station that was a peace activist and had web sites that were anti Islam and blamed everything on Arafat you?d never hear the end of it.

Sponsors are the way to go after all they pay for the broadcasting. Without sponsors the airwaves would be mighty still. We?d all be staring at blank TV screens and listening to static on radio.

Boycotting a product or products can be effective but it takes organization.

I frequent JDL now and then although I don?t agree 100% with everything on the site. They have organizations that they blacklist just how effective that becomes depends on the audience?s participation.

[raven]

CNN has finally mention the word (oh there IS no such thing)Antisemetism. This in connection with the behavior in France. Ive been watching for years now as major incident after incident happens. It is usually covered ONE time. Very unemotional coverage and dropped. We GET the message that this subject is NOT to be mentioned. By us at least. Other people can use our history as a point of reference for THEM, but not us.

Im going to be interested to hear IF they blame the victim, make excuses, tomorrow on CNN.

As we sit tonight Christiane Amapour is in the process of throwing out a "warning" to Israel. If they dont let her have her way and allow her and others to go into the Military Zones, she and the other members of the Press intend to trash Israel and Jews. That was her clear message. Few days ago, this Iranian woman, who herself stated that she had sympathies for her Iranian relatives, could barely contain her attitudes of hatred for Israel. She was so infuriated at Israel that she was litterly shaking with fury as she reported her story.

Is this woman JUST a reporter? Or is she another type of soldier in this fight?

The US essentially made CNN fire Peter Arnet because of the same reasons. He was NOT just a reporter. He was an advocate for EVERYONE BUT the US. Had absolutely no credibility because of that and the pressure was put on and he is gone. The same should happen to Amapour.

She is soooo friendly with PLO people, that she uses their first names when speaking to them. Isnt that interesting.

[L@mplighterM]

Christiane Amapour was in hot water with Clinton. I can't recall all the details other than it was something she said.

I suppose she is clammering for a story so let her have one inside an Israli jail. Israel should just hold a press conference like the US every day and that's it.

[bakuda]

has anyone noticed how many PR web sites there are on the web posted by palestinians, arabs and anti-semites?? Of course you prolly don't bother to check what the other side's doing, ....all their pictures are are graphic...rotting dead corpses (notice they wait a long time before burying...they have to take the pics you see). Most of our pictures are not. The pictures we show are bloody empty buildings and bloody cars. I'll tell you one thing, it's one thing to see a crimson stained hall and another to see a dead corps.

[Flame]

Bakuda... there are 10s of thousands.... run a yahoo search for jew.... or white... endless hate sites.

One of the most professional and highly financed is a hispanic pal site.... www.atzlan.net

[L@mplighterM]

Arabs, neo-nazis and the like are specialists at sensation transferring and I’m certain their sites have quite an impact on the viewer. Jews on the other hand show buildings etc. that of course is an indication of respect for their dead. I prefer the latter because I find it offensive and a desecration of the dead. Islam tends to be barbaric whereas Israel takes a more civilized approach. Those among us that witnessed the brutal murder of the policemen( the mob literally ripped him apart) a few years ago realize that it had a great impact on us awaking powerful emotions.

I often wonder where the worlds largest fast food restaurant would be today if it wasn’t for the golden arches. The golden arches are fashioned after women’s breasts and appeal to our subconscious inner self.

If Louis Cheskin was given the chance to package Israel’s position the Arabs wouldn’t have a chance. I’m not referring to manipulation only the manner in which the facts are presented.

[raven]

Who is Louis Cheskin? The name is close enough to one of my family's names that he might be a relative.

Israel will NOT learn to use the media. For the reasons you say and for general Pride. Thats all I can think of. All of a sudden Jews DONT know TV? They know what to do over there but just WONT.

As for Christiane Amapour. She is on a vendetta now. She was shaking with fury as she reported the story the last week. As soon as Bush flip flopped the 30 year old policy of the US, her attitude became quietly triumphant and she is proceeding to go after Israel and Jews in any way she can. Youll be able to see it, with what issues she decides to feature. It will be excessive brutality by Israli troops, targeting Christian beloved places, trying to set up Viet Nam type Outrages by Issraeli troops, the purposeful targeting of the Press by Israel...and on and on. Smearing whenever she can. This is NOT merely a Journalist, this is an Advocacy Journalist and I consider her a compatant for the other side.

Incidently, as the amount of Saudi money investment is allowed to grow in CNN, the already Anti Israel coverage will cross the line. Watch and see, if all reporters there havent "gotton the message" and will report in accordingly.

How does Sensation Transferring work? I think I get it but not sure.

[L@mplighterM]

Color for instance has a role in determining many factors and advisors advise political candidate how to dress and write their speeches. There’s no question in my mind that Arafat (the package) lacks the ability to reach out through the media and sell his package of goods whether this comes naturally or if there’s intent I don’t know.

Character appeal also play an important role when making presentations. I would say that most people would identify more favorably to an individual asking for help versus one that says I should have killed that guy a long time ago. Let’s us say that you or I didn’t know Arafat or Sharon and knew nothing about their past. Many people that I speak to feel that it’s an issue where one took something from the other party and refuses to give it back. Another frequent statement is that they Israelis and Palestinians are hotheads, crazies, they are all nuts.

I’m now appointing you King Solomon.

One wants peace and the other wants war. Whose product would you buy? I would argue that whosever’s product you chose was based on sensation transference.

I would also be willing to bet most people would side with the individual that wants peace.

I don’t know if it’s to late but Israeli spokespersons should have hired professionals to choose their clothing and to write their speeches etc. I sent a few emails to Sharon last year and told him that his government is lacking in the PR department and I know I’m not the only one. Now when it comes down to the wire he asks a former PM to be the Great Explainer.






Here’s a bit of information about Cheskin.


1930’s

Louis Cheskin coins the term "Sensation Transference," a defining psychological term referring to proven theories that one's perception of a product is directly related to packaging, presentation and color * and how minor adjustments of these design elements can significantly affect one's perception of the product.
Cheskin consults with Walt Disney on color and character appeal for Fantasia. (1939)
1970’s
Cheskin performs research for McDonald's as they broaden their "fast food" restaurant approach. Though the burgers cost more, they were thought of as a better value because people perceived them as better tasting.
Cheskin assists with the development of Bubble Yum, introduced as the first soft and chewy bubble gum, pioneering a category of gum that draws the most sales today.
Cheskin helps 3M reposition Scotchgard, increasing sales more than 30 percent based solely on changes in packaging.

You can see the whole timeline here: http://www.cheskin.com/who/timeline/timeline.html

[raven]

Lamp: I know about this, not specifically as you do, but in general...as I think most Americans do as they watched Advertizing on TV and in Politics...for so long and everywhere.

There are some basics of the mind which enable most of us to repond in a predictable way to specific stimulai. Color being one of the MAJOR stimulai. Color can activate certain areas of the brain with either feelings of like or dislike and feelings in between. (Coke's design and RED and White is supposed to be the KING of these designs- I hear). There are colors and patterns, shapes, that are will enduce the happy little endorphans to go off...wooo. They hit the little centers of the brain that say YES. You can also manipulate the areas of the brain to say NO by the images that you put forth. We all have the concept of this. So do Israelis. They just wont utilize their knowledge. AGAIN...NO IDEA WHY THEY WONT!!!! The Pals. HAVE the same concept (they are not stupid) and use this to the upmost and have since the beginning of their "campaign".

As for Peace. Israel has proved time and time again that THEY are the people that will sacrifice for Peace. (what was the giving back of the Sinai for anyway?--what was the standing still and agreeing to be bombarded by Rockets during the Iraq War?) They have NOT countered the lies and distortions immediately (and we all know you have to do this immediately) when the Pals have used the Saudi Oil money to get on the Airways and pay for the effective PR that paints THEM as the ones wanting Peace. Forget about that they dont want Peace in Israel, they dont seem to want it in India or Africa or Eastern Europe...I lost count where else they are on the move.

I give up ...we give up on TRYING to get across to them that the TRUE message...the True story...is NOT getting out to the average person, the person who knows little about the situation . Frustration...is an understatement here.

After Color, Smells are impt. Sounds are impt. but PRETTY is even MORE important. They have scientific studies that something like 3 day old babies respond in a more favorable way to PRETTY faces. Do you believe it? Yes...I do... as Pretty is designed by nature as being a cue to better genes. Below the surface we are still the old basic animal we started out as, and we respond to who we perceive as having the better genes to pass along.

So in line with that concept, immediately upon learning that Israel had their hands on PROOF of guilt by Arafat, they dispached a PRETTY Palistinian Attorney to appear on CNN to dispute what was found. PRETTY is the operative word here. Believe me this woman has gone thru PR and TV training, full makeoverS to correspond to Focus Groups and was fully ready to make her appearance. WE are NOT doing the same.

There are other techniques that the Pals are using. Too long to go into ...one tactic after another. But tactics, not truth.

[L@mplighterM]

That’s correct Israel is not taking full advantage of advertising itself. To some extent I believe that its arrogance. Sharon did appoint a spokesperson the former PM as a spokesperson for Israel the other day so he must have had an inclination that something wasn’t kosher.

It’s to late to bail when the ship has sunk or to secure the chips when they
are falling at an alarming rate. At this point it’s my belief that the Arabs have the upper hand and that there’s nothing that can be done to find support in the world.

Right now Israel has been placed in a difficult position at least the way I see it. If they don’t withdraw they will be isolated by the world community and face enormous economic consequences. On the other hand if they withdraw they set the stage for more Arab aggression against their population. After all the killers can enter the country and commit their evil acts and the Arab world will know that Israel is on a leash.

I think I understand Sharon he’s the spit in his hands, roll up his sleeves and start digging kind of a guy. A lets not waste time personality a right now person. In other words he’s not a diplomat and believes whatever he does is righteous and therefore should not be questioned or given too much thought. The trouble is that the world is plastic and right or wrong isn’t determined by facts and/or logic.

I tend to be that way myself at times

[raven]

Heres how Sharon and others see it. These are murderers plain and simple and they HAVE TO go after them and put em out of business. Just cant sit there and let people walk in and murder you at will. Not possible. THen you dont have a viable country.

As to not engaging the Media...I was around when we first brought up the subject with them. I can tell you that they said, that they were sure that the ideals of Democracy and Freedom of Israel, would eventually stand on their own. That surely the American people would NEVER support the other side, considering their ideas and values and behavior all over the world. They said that they had limited resources and could not afford guns and Media. (I know a person that started a organization to oppose anti Israel bias in the Media...and she talked to the higher ups in Israel and this is what she told me that they said)

Those were the reasons they didnt go into playing the PR game with the endless PR Petro Dollared...Funded...Arabs. I guess they figured that they could never keep up with them on that front and that they had to pick the fronts to fight on.

It was a mistake. We couldnt disabuse them of it. They are trying a tiny bit now, but you see it is an amaturish try at best. They dont put people on immediately after an attempt at a smear, when they put someone on, the person isnt a polished spokesperson...and on and on. Its killing me. I know they can do it IF they would only...

[L@mplighterM]

I fully support the actions that Sharon has taken believe me I would have undertaken actions so severe that even my son questions my sanity.
I would never make or even want to be a politician.

As I write this the media sees this as a conflict between the Israelis and the poor Palestinians. That is echoed throughout the free world and in fact nothing could be further from the truth. It’s a war against Palestinian( and others) terrorists and Israel but that is not what is written or spoken throughout the world.

You may recall how Bush and Blair kept on emphasizing that the conflict in Afghanistan was not against Islam but against the terrorists. They kept on driving the point home again and again and again. Blair even traveled to Islamic countries to assure them of that fact.

We are not subjected to the same stimuli from Israel. For whatever reason it’s a one sided presentation of the events unfolding in the Middle East. They should be holding press conferences every day explaining to the world that they aren’t against Islam (even if they don’t mean it).

At this point the bias against Israel is overwhelming. They are killing civilians, the population is starving, Arafat is confined to two or three rooms and the list goes on.

If I had it my way that evil terrorists body parts could be scraped off the moon.

[Flame]

Well tonight's national NBC storyline was about how much humilation can the poor pals take... their lives are so intruppted... having to stop at check points several times a day... and the beautiful 18 year old girl who blew herself up... what could lead a girl to do such a thing... and her path crossed with a 17 year old who could have been her high school friend.... they even looked like they can be sisters... the spoke to the mom for a minute.. she looked like a mess... they spoke to the bomber girls family... the little brother on the phone trying to call his sister, too young to understand she will never come home.

Disgusting! Little subtle visual story lines... humiliation... how more can THEY take? THe entire arab world feels helpless and humiliated. So the message NBC seemed to suggest... just dare even humilate a people and this causes the poor people to have to kill you... you who are brining this on yourself.

[raven]

You got it A. Storyline is the operative word here. And the message that you gleaned from the story is the message you were intended to get. And it is TRUE? In ANY WAY?? Of course it isnt. The storyline spin : instead of a hate filled young woman drivin by all sorts of cultural reasons (which we should examine) to murder into a sympathetic unfortunate young but passionate lady. Give me a break. Terrorist is the word for her.

Ask your Br. if these arent storylines not News? He knows a script when he sees one, doesnt he? SH-T!!!! Cuse me...Ive about had it. IF Id have seen that abomination of so called news Id be halfway around the bend FURTHER than I am already.

Forgot to talk about the intimidation of Journalists by the Arab World. If you are assigned to the ME, you have to do a story of some sort everyday and it BETTER NOT be Pro Israel..or you could be GONE...in all sorts of senses.

Geez. Poorrr..Pals. I again say (for you to Lamp) who is in charge of definitions? Whats the definition of a Terrorist? Does it make a difference who the victim of the Terrorist is-- as to retaining the term "Terrorist"? When will we connect-- what this substantial minority of people are doing around the entire world-- with what they are doing in Israel? And DO people actually think that this behavior will never affect the US directly and daily. Its gonna come here and soon. How immoral is it to define what these people are doing in the rest of the world as Terrorism but in Israel as something else? More understandable perhaps, more acceptable, perhaps? Very problematic.

[L@mplighterM]

It?ll come to America and the western democracies and it won?t be long in a wink of eye in terms of history it?ll be upon us.

My kids will never enjoy the freedom felt by us eventually the world will become one theocratic state dominated by Islam. I see it as clearly as the monitor in front of my face and I think the sad part is that inaction by NATO and the US to stamp it out now is sad.
They should be down in the Gaza Strip helping Israel clean up the garbage (terrorists) that spawns it?s venom throughout the area.

I really felt that the Republican dominated Supreme Court screwed Gore and I never viewed Bush as an elected leader. Actually all the people I talked too throughout Europe saw him as appointed. Then came the aftermath of 9/11 where my wife?s two friends lost eight friends, seven in New York and one at the Pentagon. Bush emerged as a leader that would stamp out the evil bastards where ever they existed in the world and I saw him as an individual of strength and conviction.

Now I haven?t a clue what the hell is going on? Blackmail? I don?t know.

[raven]

Lamp: Let me leave the comming of Islam for later...such a big subject.

Heres what bothered me about the election. The passivity of the electorate is what bothered me finally. I did NOT want violence in the streets of course, but I did expect that the people that knew that Gore had actually won, and voted for him, to pay more attention to it and react to it. Sort of made no difference to them after a week or so. Political operatives on each side saw that. Can you image what hanky panky is going to be attempted the next election? If they saw that noone made a fuss, then they will attempt this type of thing again. Ive been brought up to believe Free and Fair elections (leaving out Chicago..[a joke]) are almost sacred. Seemed hardly to matter ....Gore won by 500 thous people. Thats a substantial win in America. A good sized, be proud of WIN. You only get a Goldwater and Dukakus type thing once in a while. American Presidential elections are usually rather close, but Gore/Lieberman (lest we forget) did damn well.

Bush did lose the POPULAR election and that is all there is to it. He is the President cause he was appointed by the Supreme Court. It was a risk to let this inexperienced man sit as President and we may be paying for it now. He essentially feels sympathetic to Israel, unlike his father, but we all can see that he is being told that he will NOT be able to make these decisions because of his inexperience in Foreign Policy Matters. He knows, he doesnt know...and therefore he is easy to back down. He is being told NO...period. Then he is given a script to read and he does this rather well, by now.

Whoever???...is the President of Foreign Policy. The Dad? Baker (just cause you dont see him doesnt mean he isnt forming day to day policy) Powell? Chaney? Ruimsfeld? Several factions of other people from other administrations around Bush? Who the heck knows and we SHOULD KNOW. This decision will affect all of us forever, like the decisions we made in the Cold War.

This is unbelievable.

[Flame]

Seems to me that all the arab nations who oppose terrorism and all the poor pal people who are not terrorists would be thanking Israel for finally doing the job no one else has done... since everyone says terrorism is the obstical to the statehood dream.

I just can't even imagine what it is that makes the palestine people so special that the entire world is enraged at Israel... the scandanavians plan to boycott Israeli products... every world leader frantic... every news story slanted in favor of terrorists as victims.... what is it that makes these people more special than all the other millions of people on earth who are having horrible crimes commited against them?

Lamp and Stevie... I would like very much if you would help me with a list of nations that have major violence going on... The list is huge... but no world out cry for these people., no boycotts or threats. Unbelievable.

[Flame]

It just occured to me whatthe propagandic images are saying....

Giving a face to the war. We see hundreds of images a day... (aside from the wild mobs) ... the other face are of darling, western-looking, well dressed pal children, old ladies crying, smart men dressed in suits and ties that speak well.

The other face, the Isreali face is..... tanks, IDF with guns, aftermath of buildings that have been blown up after the carnage was cleaned up, and the occasional pro-pal liberal Jew.

Really... if you overlay the situation here in amercia you could say:

pal refugee camps under Israeli occupation
is like
govenment housing projects in the inner cities under American occupation

If Americans get really annoyed about reparations... and things get heated up and black miltants get all worked up... would the black community think its justified for the kids to around america on suicide bombing missions?
(Doubtfull) And what if the jacksons and farakans and such were paying the kids 25,000 a bombing and the families lined them up to take the offer.... the absuridity and evilness of it is apparent using a different people in a different land.

[L@mplighterM]

Much of what you see on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, etc is staged reporters actually pay the Palestinians to be actors and actresses (thespians) and film little skits. The pictures are supposed to elicit sympathy from the outside world. Seems to be working to me.

[raven]

Column One: Going it alone --From J. Post
By Caroline B. Glick

*This is Some of What We Have Been Talking About*


With today's 'Column One,' the Post proudly re-introduces a feature dating to the 1940s. Caroline B. Glick is the Post deputy managing editor.

During a telephone interview with Al-Jazeera television on Wednesday afternoon, Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat rejected Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's offer of a “one-way ticket” out of the area by retorting, "Why? Is this my homeland or his?"

Arafat went on to explain "the Palestinian people has been rooted to this land since before the time of Abraham, the prophet," and to proclaim the way to victory is through continued suicide bombings by calling out "shahid, shahid, shahid!" before hanging up his cellphone – which the IDF has allowed him to recharge.

In these remarks, Nobel Laureate Arafat laid bare the twin causes of the Palestinian terrorist war against Israel. Simply put, the PA under Arafat denies Israel has any right to exist and is completely committed to using terrorism as its method for destroying it. For Arafat, this is not a question of how to divide up disputed territory between two nations with legitimate rights to it, but an "us against them" struggle in which only one side will emerge victorious.

For Israelis, although Arafat's remarks are unsettling, they are far from shocking. Israelis, who in the wake of three massacres in the space of a few days saw some 31,000 of their fathers, sons, and husbands called up in an emergency reserve mobilization, know who Arafat is and understand what this war is about and what must be done. As OC Air Force Maj.-Gen. Dan Halutz explained in an interview this week, "This war is one of our most important wars – certainly the second most important after the War of Independence," and "it must be decided – in a sharp and clear way, that will not be open for interpretation."

Israelis get it. The international diplomatic community doesn’t. As Arafat was underlining the need for continuous jihad on Al-Jazeera, the EU's chief diplomat, Javier Solana, was on Spanish television explaining that this war is nothing but an old grudge between two aging leaders – Sharon and Arafat – and could end if they would kindly step aside for younger, less antagonistic leadership. For Solana then, there is no difference between Sharon, who has alienated his own political base to seek a cease-fire, and Arafat, who calls for his "political base" to die murdering Jews.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell also refuses to understand. As husbands and breadwinners quietly don their uniforms and take up arms to bring about the decisive victory required, Powell declares that "Chairman Arafat is the legitimate leader of the Palestinian people," and explains that contrary to what Sharon claims, and the Israeli people know in their gut to be true, "it would not serve our purpose right now to brand [Arafat] individually as a terrorist."

The international press corps also refuses to get it. The New York Times, for instance, reported Wednesday, "While President [George W.] Bush endorsed this week the continued relevance of Yasser Arafat, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel called today for exiling the Palestinian leader."

From this, one could understand Sharon was acting not against Arafat, but against the US government. The newspaper of record, which brought the Saudi plan to the world, devoted more than 1,000 words last Sunday to rhapsodizing the female Palestinian bomber who murdered two and wounded 30 in Jerusalem last week. The 18-year-old killer, who is deeply mourned by her father, was a "straight-A high school senior," we are told. Somehow, the Times doesn't see fit to print a word about Rahel Levy, the murderess’s 17-year-old victim. Rahel was a good student, a gifted photographer, but a victim, not a murderer, and therefore, apparently unworthy of note.

The Times and others characterize this murderer, like the hundreds before her, as a desperate and lost youth. The fact that suicide bombers are not "lost youth" but rather, by and large, middle class, well-educated, the flowers of their society, goes unreported.

How is this situation to be understood? How is it possible that after the Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances have been used to transfer suicide bombers and explosive belts, Phillip Reeker, the State Department’s spokesman demanded this week that Israel provide "unfettered access for ambulances and emergency medical personnel at Israeli checkpoints?"

Part of the problem, no doubt is Israel’s spokesmen are, quite simply, not up to the task. Ambassador to the UN Yehuda Lancry, for instance, does not seem to understand what is going on back home. When asked earlier this week by a CNN reporter if Arafat is responsible for terrorism, rather than answering with a simple "yes," the honorable ambassador fumbled and mumbled that Arafat can do more to rein in the terrorists.

Clearly, Israel is in dire need of a new team of spokesmen who, when given the opportunity, will actually be able to tell the world the truth it so desperately wishes not to hear.

However, not all the blame lies with our diplomats. The foreign press corps, from the Arabs to the Europeans to the Americans, obstinately refuses to cover the story. Part of this refusal stems from the fact that telling the truth can be hazardous to one’s health.

We recall, for instance, the abject apology issued to the PA by Italian television journalist Ricardo Christiani for the temerity of his Italian rivals who filmed and broadcast scenes from the lynching of two IDF reservists at the Ramallah police station in October 2000. Embarrassed by the disclosure of the apology, which was printed in the PA’s official newspaper, Christiani was sent home.

Part of the foreign media’s refusal to cover the fact that the PA is waging a terrorist war aimed at Israel’s destruction is deliberate. That is, foreign reporters understand the situation and callously refuse to report it.

Take roadside shootings. For the past year and a half, Palestinian forces have regularly stationed themselves on roads to shoot at Israeli motorists and lynch any Israeli who strays into their towns and cities. Understanding the situation, foreign correspondents have found a method to protect themselves. Every one of their vehicles is covered in duct tape spelling out TV to signal to the gunmen they are not their intended Israeli victims. The journalists are protected and the story of road terror goes chronically underreported.

The Unified Palestinian Command, which coordinates the Palestinian terrorist war among the various militias, declared days ago that it is widening its war to include attacks on American targets. The story went largely unreported, so that when the State Department’s subsequently decided to encourage dependents of US diplomatic personnel to leave Israel, it seemed as though the move was more a reaction to the IDF’s actions than to the fact that the Palestinians have just declared war on the US.

Back in September 1995, at the height of the Oslo process, as prime minister Yitzhak Rabin signed the Interim Agreement on the White House lawn, extending PLO control to the major cities in Judea and Samaria, he warned Arafat, "If all the partners to peace-making do not unite against the evil angels of death by terrorism, all that will remain of this ceremony are color snapshots, empty mementos. If we do not have partners in this bitter, difficult war, we will fight it alone. We know how to fight. We know how to win."

Well, the PA terrorist war against Israel, which began after prime minister Ehud Barak offered Arafat concessions that, according to Leah Rabin, would have made her husband’s stomach churn, has proven beyond doubt that Israel has no Palestinian partner “in this bitter, difficult war.”
Unfortunately, and contrary perhaps to Rabin’s greatest nightmare, not only does Israel have no Palestinian partner; because of the deliberate refusal of the international diplomatic community to grasp the fact the Palestinians are waging a zero sum game war against Israel, and because of the international press corps refusal to report the facts, Israel is forced to fight this decisive battle for its national survival alone.

[raven]

Lamp and Flame: The paying for "actors" is a long time tactic. This happened here at home. For Talk Radio, which was around and predominated in the 80's, we found out that the Arab World funded phone banks in specific cities, to start with, to flood the talk shows. Their funds were from the Saudis and were virtually unlimited. They were most interested in NPR and Black Talk Radio. They were told to stay away from ultra right wing quazi Facist type radio as it would mark THEM as the Nazi types they were. They were told what to say, with actual scripts, and more importantly what could NOT come out of their mouths. (no antisemetism could dare be expressed)

This has been a masterful Campaign. This recently constructed phoney "minority", the Palistinians, fit the bill. You have to conclude that the rest of the world WANTS to either limit Israel severly or get it ready little by little for extinction. Thats all I can conclude. I think it is the correct conclusion.

[cerulean]

This looks like a concrete information campaign to improve Israel's image:

http://www.jafi.org.il/agenda/2001/english/index.htm

[L@mplighterM]

Terrorism and Islamic Fundamentalism is not only a Jewish issue. Sure Sharon’s call to the worlds Jewry to join Israel’s information campaign is a start.

If you visit www.jdl.com (Jewish Defense Leagues) site you will see that 6 million Jews died in the holocaust and an equal number of gentiles. This sends the right message to visitors of the site. If he wants to make this an issue of Jews versus the world he might as well throw in the towel right now.

Why didn’t he call on all interested parties to help with the information campaign? Jews, Gentiles, Hindus, Chinese, etc. I don’t know why he just doesn’t shoot himself in the foot?

In my opinion a site like this sends the wrong message again it shows that the leaders really don’t grasp the situation.

[raven]

Of course Terrorism isnt just a Jewish Issue. I would say that the real intended target is the West. Islam is on the move after one thousand years. And this set of peoples have always not tolorated equal power. Israel and Jews are the first step. It is also a "learning" opportunity for Islam. They are carefully noting the limits of reaction by America and the West. They are noting for future action what certain of their actions produce. Do this....and the West will react this way...Do THAT...and the West will react in another. They are calculating as we speak, what behaviors of theirs is TOO MUCH and will create a backlash and what they can get away with without much of a backlash. These are not stupid people, much as many think. Not at all. Islam has been dealing with the West for 2000 or more years. They have needed the West for CUSTOMERS and so they have tactics and more tactics to overcome the West natural dislike of their values and ideas.

This is about AMERICA and staying Free. You can only stay Free when you are not intimidated. We learned this in the Cold War. This is the same thing. And the people in charge have known this and tried to pretend they didnt. The pretense is over.

[Flame]

I'll post this item later if anyone is interested... not very sexy details... however, during the final days of the Ottoman empire George Washington's army was fighting islamic terrorists... known back then as the Barbary pirates.

Is it the navy or the coast guard who's tune is... From the halls of Montazuma to the shores of Tripoli.... a direct result of the young America saying no at long last to islamic terrorists who ruled the seas at the time with brutal piracy, hostage taking, and extortion.

The game of chess is bassed on war stragety and I don't play it and don't k now if the terms I'm going to say are right or not... but you'll know what I mean... Isreal is CHECK and America is CHECK MATE.

[General X]

Not to mention... have you heard about the Palistinean gunmen 'held up' and 'trapped' in the Church of the Nativity? The truth is, Israel did not TRAP them there, they RAN there out of their own will. They are successful in making Israel receive more undue critiscm from the Pope and Catholics. That is one of the most important goals of the Arabs- to make Israel -look- bad and try to gain sympathy. The media seems to sneak in these incorrect newcasts just because Israel won't let the press follow them in incursions. Can't they understand- they have no business following an army if it is not their wish... why didn't they follow America in Afghanistan. I'm American, and I'm aware of the bias in the news media, against Israel. It's not Israel's fault that they ran to the church for cover. If Israel tried to conduct operations from within the church, there would be an uproar against them. BBC and CNN are terrible... maybe on FoxNews you'll hear the truth. Or Alan Keyes, my favorite 'talkshowhostguy'. My top 3 newspeople are:
1. Alan Keyes - he makes perfect sense- the Arabs (and their weapon: oil) are trying to deprive us of a worthy and important ally
2. Bill O'Reilly- I like his personality and he usually brings up good points, without much bias.
3. Shawn Hannity & Rush Limbo- Hannity sees that terrorism has no justification and supports Israel's right to defend itself. Limbo brings up some ridiculous points about suggestions (usually by liberals because he is very to the right)

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. BBC has bias because of Britain & Europe's need for oil. CNN has bias because the Saudis own a large portion of it.

[Flame]

I encourage ALL Jews to get off of the Saudi Prince's ISP ---- AOL!!!!!!!!! He owns about half of AOL TIME WARNER.... and AOL merged with (or took over?) CNN. Greta Van S... said that when AOL took over CNN the enjoyment was gone and she was more than happy to go to FOX.

[Gatorade]

I encourage ALL Jews to get off of the Saudi Prince's ISP ---- AOL!!!!!!!!! He owns about half of AOL TIME WARNER.... and AOL merged with (or took over?) CNN. Greta Van S... said that when AOL took over CNN the enjoyment was gone and she was more than happy to go to FOX.


This is the kind of stuff I don't get.

1) Why would you limit your suggestion to just all Jews. Why not everyone if you thought the Saudi is a bad guy.

2) Is there a reason you singled out this guy? Is it soley based that he is from Saudi Arabia that you don't trust him? Do you think he is responsible for crappy CNN coverage? Why?

[raven]

Maybe, just maybe Jews ought to think over using AOL. Since the Saudis have invested in AOL/TimeWarner/CNN...Levin was thown out, several high profile Jews have lost their shows, more Jews were downgraded and the message is to them,"this isnt the place for you to work long term" and the coverage of the ME has gotton even MORE Anti Israel, if possible.

Even Eli Weisel, has looked at certain Foreign Investment in the Publishing Business with Alarm. He gets it. Fewer Jewish writers, no books with Arab Bad Guys, much less books on Jewish subjects ...when incidently our community are THE mega readers.

The Arab World doesnt keep it a secret that they intend to buy America media and throw out as many Jews as possible. They are doing it a little bit at a time and under the radar. They invest in Europen Companies and those European Companies are starting to buy up our companies. Cute huh?

[L@mplighterM]

Yes it’s cute but it’s also being smart imagine taking over the world without firing a single shot. Not a bad deal is it? We come in peace and our beliefs are the best in the world. They even get help from the world leaders.
Not a bad deal buy out the media and take over the web and fill it with love Muslims propaganda.

Sure sounds like a winner to me.

[raven]

You all should get ready for this. The spoiled brat Journalists dont allow...thats ALLOW...peoples and Governments to say NO to them in any way. If they do, then the Media gets revenge by trashing them.

Israel had finally had enough of 30 years worth of lies and misrepresentation by most of the Media and when their life was finally beginning to be in jepardy, they decided to go bout their business and NOT allow the Media to short cut their needed defense.

This is what will happen. The Media is BENT on getting Revenge. They will be backing up Palistian manipulations (collecting the bodies and NOT burrying them so as to get images that can mirror a Holocaust type of situation--LOOK FOR THAT) . They will be using words like "Massacure". They will be soliticiting "horror stories" from people that "look just like YOU Americans". They will soliticiting stories of hunger and barbarism especially from Christian Ministers of all kinds. They will exagurate the destruction or at least proceed to show the destruction and NOT tell what led up to it. They will START the story when they can construct it to give the impression that Israel just did this cause a few Issraelis were blown up. Further, look for the word "Atrocities" and "War Crimes" to pop up over and over when referring to Israel.

I just heard Robin Wright, who makes her living supporting one Arab Cause after another, for 25 years, use the word "Defiant" for Sharon. Look for that word to be used quite a bit. That word is code for..."Pull the funding for Israel--those violent ingrates--who DEFIED your suggestions (make that ORDERS). Do any of you know who Robin Wright IS? Many of you dont and the audience doesnt either. She is a prime example of an Advocacy Journalist. Her life has been devoted to supporting Arabs and trashing Jews. She makes HUGE money ...all her life...doing this. Did CNN explain who she is? NO......and you wont hear them do this either.

Israel is being set up for big Demonization. They want to present a parallel HOLOCAUST.. Look for Holocaust type images and vocabulary. Get it? Write CNN and tell them you know what they intend to do.

[Oh Jerusalem]

A good address for reporting biased reporting is HonestReporting.com (http://www.honestreporting.com/). They can be emailed at action@honestreporting.com.

[raven]

There you go. About 5 minutes after I wrote the last post Amapour is on CNN and used the word "dissed" and then used the word "defiant" when referring to Sharon.

Ahh...here it comes...look for the word and concept "humanitarian catastrophy". All backed up by Internation Aide Societies and Chruch Groups. Like possibly??? the Red Cross, the Catholic Church??? GET READY.

She is talking to the so called King Abdullah of Jordan. Jordan, the country, is a wholly Western Made Up Creation. The Monarchy is also NOT Jordanian but Saudi or Egyptian. I forgot which country this family is REALLY from.

Am I right...or..did Jordan murder 100 THOUSAND Palistinians when the Pals wanted part of Jordan? This was after the 67 War. Gee, wonder why Amapour doesnt bring up THAT FACT? She is STARTING the Story, where she wants so that the bad guys are NOT Arabs. Cute? Doesnt fit her "storyline"

Starting a storyline where you WANT, thus presently on a small part of the story, to emphasize only Israel's violent actions, should be labeled as Antisemetic Propaganda...cause that is what it is...

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by raven
Am I right...or..did Jordan murder 100 THOUSAND Palistinians when the Pals wanted part of Jordan?

You are writing pure fiction and we will not be fooled.

Hussein only killed 4000. It was 1970 and the event would be known as Black September.

Now, you didn't forget Syria's Assad and Hama, did you:

From The Massacre of Hama (http://www.shrc.org/english/99reports/18021999.htm):

For 27 days starting from February 2nd 1982, the Syrian forces put Hama under a siege, shelled the town with all kinds of artillery, then Hama was ravaged by military and special forces, and its civilians were severely punished. The estimated victims range between 30000 and 40000 civilians including ladies, children and elderlies. 15000 civilians were considered lost since then and had never traced back. Thousands of civilians were obliged to desert the town, as one third of Hama had been completely destroyed. Many mosques, churches and historical buildings were left in rubbles as a consequence to the government’s artillery bombardment.

Foreign press reports said that the Syrian government had given the military forces full authority to finish the opposition and to punish all sympathisers. To avoid any popular protests or world condemnation, hushing up on Hama was imposed, all transport and communication links with the town were suspended. An embargo to the entry and parting was imposed on the town. During that period, Hama was a target to military operations on a large scale. Units of the army, special forces, defence brigades, military intelligence, general intelligence and militia of the ruling Ba’ath party took part in the operations against Hama. The campaign was led by the president’s younger brother brigadier Rifa’at Asad who was appointed two months earlier the martial ruler of the northern and middle districts of the country. An estimated number of 12000 especially trained soldiers were put under his authorities.

Hama uprising marked a clear change of the Syrian government policy in favour of employing the armed forces to repress the political violence flared out between 1979 and 1982. Hama’s civilians were the worst victim of the massacre. As a consequence to this quench, Syria has never witnessed any more protest against the policies of the Syrian government, which were widely disputable before.

The Syrian authorities, instead of taking the necessary measurement to reduce the consequences of the massacre and to make an inquest in the crimes committed against many civilians and families, they rewarded the officers involved in the acts of killing and repression. Rifa’at Asad was appointed as vice-president for national security, other officers were granted higher ranks, and Hama’s governor Mohammed Harba was appointed as the minister of the interior. Such measurements confirmed the government’s reckless attitude towards the civilians and its commitment to the policy of "strong hand" , instead of "dialogue" in dealing with domestic affairs.

The authorities whose duty to protect civilians at crisis periods, had shown sheer negligence to shoulder their responsibilities. Even worse, some of them were deeply involved in the massacre. Therefore, International law and human rights are required to open a wide inquest on the events of Hama seventeen years ago and to determine the criminal responsibility of the massacre as an act of genocide forbidden and punished for by international law.

[raven]

J...I just heard that it was 100 Thousand. This was last week. Maybe they meant 100 Pals killed by Jordanians all told...not just after the War. Nevertheless-- 4 Thousand of your OWN sounds like a awful lot of people to me, while we are at it.

Im not forgetting Syria. Reports are anywhere from 15000 to more than 30000. Dont know which is right. Heard all kinds of numbers. Alot of people witchever it is.

Incidently: Ive had CNN on practically 24/7-- and the words and concepts I describe are not fiction. They are as I said they are. CNN is what is called "telescoping" what their take on the storyline will be. Constant use of the concept that Israel is trying to "Hide" their human right crimes. Constant use of the term "Defiant" when referring to Sharon. Constant scheduling of Advocay Journalists like: Peter Jennings (boyfriend at one time of Hanan Ashwahi-long time Arab Supporter) Christiane Amapour (no explanation necessary) now Robin Wright ( spokesperson for IRAN for years and supporter of most Arab Causes...rights books and opinion columns) --

CNN even recyled Zibignew Brazinski (excuse the spelling) the old time Carter State Dept PRO ARAB advocate.

Look for James Baker, IF CNN has the nerve. I bet we see him later on.

Wish I could get Fox.

[L@mplighterM]

There’s no question that the media runs the world. Screw with the media in any way and you’re a cooked goose. The argument is that the Jews control the media in the US; if that were the case I would think that Gore and Lieberman would be leading the country.

[raven]

SOME control huh? Sheesh.

You can hear em today getting ready...to demonize us. They are "telescoping" the direction and the nature of the coverage.

Im about to have a stoke here...close to it anyway.

They are going to present stuff that they KNOW is a set up and at some point we arent going to be able to doing anything about it. That they do it to us, means that they will be encouraged to do MORE of this with any subject. Just TOTAL fiction.

Only think I can think of is to let em know that you know what they are doing.

[L@mplighterM]

Im about to have a stoke here...close to it anyway.

Don't go having a stroke that would only help Islamic Fundamentalists and you wouldn?t want to do that. At some point in time I?m almost certain that US will turn into a theocratic state. Whenever that happens we?ll be run by Christian Fundamentalists isn?t that a happy thought?

Admittedly it?s scary to imagine where all this is taking us.

Word of mouth is a powerful tool and there are many nations that have tried to control the media and they have failed. From what I hear it seems like there?s a silent war between what is perceived as good versus evil taking place in the media.

I know for a fact that demands are placed on reporters and that they are told what to say.
Or else.

I know that one owner of a large chain of newspapers has informed the publishers to stick to the truth.

[muslim4israel2]

His Royal Highness, the Excellency Prince Tariq bin Abdul Aziz has purchased a share of AOL?

I always thought CNN was becomming more impressive.

[raven]

Lamp: We are going down the road you say. Plain and simple...this IS a Religious War going on. They try to pretend it isnt, but it is. They havent even faced up to the fact that part of this is Ethnic Wars...But at the bottom of it,the very bottom, religious resentments from 1000 years ago are boiling. (Thats Islam vs. Christianity) Farther back is resentments toward Jews by BOTH of em. Sorry to say. This is why even this country is able to say , with a straight face, that Terrorism is Terrorism EVERYWHERE expect in Israel. Got...to face facts. If that isnt a sea change, then there is no such thing.

I noted at we constantly try to minimalize the danger. We make this mistake each time one of these erruptions happen. I thought we had finally learned that keeping quiet, censuring EACH OTHER, doesnt work.

Last night on Night Line, reacting to recieved mail on the use of the word "defiant", ABC immediately, they covered their asses...by minimizing the use of the word, as casting OUR objections to it as some kind of "oversensitivity". They also set up their defense by claiming that they get the SAME amount of mail from "each side" so there "they must be doing something right and they must be acting in a fair manner". They also cast their trashing of Jews thru Sharon..and a mere "perception problem". WE perceive their reporting as biased.
-------------------------------------------------------

Go to Drudge (convenient space to find Newpapers and articles) and you will see an article about the calls for "War Crimes Trials" already. Knew it.