Close the forum - Road Map is dead

[David_in_NYC]

The road map is dead. There is nothing left to discuss about it, except as a historical artifact.

Let's try a new forum, "Winning the war against the Islamists", it would be far more relevant to the current day.

[Enuff]

Don’t be too hasty David, the Russians are very likely to put forth a U.N.S.C. resolution very shortly(within the next few weeks, at any rate) which will adopt the ‘Roadmap’ as the U.N.'s and the Security Councils official tool to promote and ’internationalize global conflict(peace)’ under it’s auspicious record.

The measure would allow 'quartet members’ to monitor and possibly even police(most likely utilizing Arab forces with ‘blue caps’ - if they chose to wear them - as infidels would probably be considered hostile and unwelcome occupiers upon Islam‘s land) the implementation of the plan. Just think of all the wonderful possibilities this holds!

Yes, I do think this will add a whole new dimension, flavor and spelling to the words, “Cluster…………bomb.”

[Mediocrates]

Road Map II will consist of a sudden reversal of world opinion on the security fence. In it the fence will be bent around in the other direction to 'protect and surround' Israel. Checkpoints will be strengthened and over each one will be placed a sign that reads Arbeit Macht Frei.

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
The road map is dead. There is nothing left to discuss about it, except as a historical artifact.

Let's try a new forum, "Winning the war against the Islamists", it would be far more relevant to the current day.

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by David_in_NYC
The road map is dead. There is nothing left to discuss about it, except as a historical artifact.

Let's try a new forum, "Winning the war against the Islamists", it would be far more relevant to the current day.

HI WHEN YOU SAY ISLAMISTS DO YOU , HAT E ARABS OR IS IT TERRORISTS YOU MEAN , DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM OR WHAT

[LoveIsrael23]

hi

[LoveIsrael23]

Does israel posess ICBM's? and what yield are the warheads?
just wondering ok.

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
Does israel posess ICBM's? and what yield are the warheads?
just wondering ok.
Israel how do you see it , how do you feel Israe can live in Peace and Prosperity
I live in Ireland

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
Does israel posess ICBM's? and what yield are the warheads?
just wondering ok.


A good source is FAS

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/index.html

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
A good source is FAS

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/index.html


The short answer is no - They possibly have IRBMs as well as SLCMs and an aircraft lauched capability. While 'Shavit' has a LEO (Low Earth Orbit) capability intercontinental suborbital ballistic capability does not exist.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
The short answer is no - They possibly have IRBMs as well as SLCMs and an aircraft lauched capability. While 'Shavit' has a LEO (Low Earth Orbit) capability intercontinental suborbital ballistic capability does not exist.

Check out www.israeli-weapons.com nice source,

Israel can have ICBM's but we don't need'em.
Israel Shavit 2 and 3 are believed to be able to reach any point on Europe.

If some Tom Clancy scenario will come true, and Israel with have to blast some south american terrorist HQ or south american natzi like tyrant, Israel is believe to have suitecase bombs. (if not, we can sure build one).

large bombs can be sneacked into private plances of commercial containters. You only have to get the bomb close enough to a target (or harbour).

Basicly, any intercontinatal plane can be easily converted to a huge cruise missile...

[Communication]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
In it the fence will be bent around in the other direction to 'protect and surround' Israel. Checkpoints will be strengthened and over each one will be placed a sign that reads Arbeit Macht Frei.

You have a very dark sense of humor, Medio.

[Communication]

Originally posted by mrsherwin
Israel how do you see it , how do you feel Israe can live in Peace and Prosperity
I live in Ireland


Welcome. Sorry to answer a question with a question but someone mentioned that there are Jews still living in Ireland. Know any? You see, I kind of have a thing for Irish guys. :)

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by Communication
Welcome. Sorry to answer a question with a question but someone mentioned that there are Jews still living in Ireland. Know any? You see, I kind of have a thing for Irish guys. :)


yes your ,s truly although i wouldn,t be the most devout

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by mrsherwin
yes your ,s truly although i wouldn,t be the most devout Sorry, I don't believe you. I can read between the lines, you don't have the feel of a Jewish brotheren in you. Not even close.

round the mill Chatolic pope whorshiper European... We had worse here... (we used to have a pictures licking russian orthodox... whould you imagion...).

[Communication]

Sorry, mr sherwin, gotta run....my father is here.


Originally posted by Gilgamesh
Sorry, I don't believe you. I can read between the lines, you don't have the feel of a Jewish brotheren in you. Not even close.

round the mill Chatolic pope whorshiper European... We had worse here... (we used to have a pictures licking russian orthodox... whould you imagion...).

[LoveIsrael23]

Originally posted by Communication
Welcome. Sorry to answer a question with a question but someone mentioned that there are Jews still living in Ireland. Know any? You see, I kind of have a thing for Irish guys. :)


do u know in ireland some pubs had signs that said no dogs or jews.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
do u know in ireland some pubs had signs that said no dogs or jews.

You seem to have a lot of these anecdotes.

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
do u know in ireland some pubs had signs that said no dogs or jews.

where , did u see that , i would be very surprised , was that recently i would love to know where u heard that from . Jews in ireland aren,t plentiful however some have held very prominent positions and the irish nation has great links with jewish groupsApart from some efforts to convert the Jews to Christianity, their small community was left in peace. Daniel O'Connell, the great Irish political leader of the first half of the nineteenth century, was able to say of the Jews: 'Ireland has claims on your ancient race, it is the only country that I know of unsullied by any one act of persecution of the Jews'. He supported with enthusiasm the efforts of the Jews to attain full civil rights within the United Kingdom. In 1846 an obsolete statute which prescribed a special dress for Jews was formally repealed by the British Parliament on the insistence of O'Connell.

For their part, the Jews in Ireland and internationally played a part out of proportion to their numbers in helping to relieve the general distress during the Great Famine. In the original subscription list of the British Association for the Relief of Famine, preserved in the National Library in Dublin, Queen Victoria heads the list with a gift of £2,000 followed by the Jewish financier Baron Lionel de Rothschild's £1,000. A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850 on the Baron's generosity, made the point that he and his family had contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 ... a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates.' In 1880 when a new appeal for help for Ireland was directed at America, the Irish Relief Fund and the Irish Famine Fund was liberally supported by American Jews.

please tell me where you heard that because it was often irish people that were labeled in with the dogs

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by mrsherwin
where , did u see that , i would be very surprised , was that recently i would love to know where u heard that from . Jews in ireland aren,t plentiful however some have held very prominent positions and the irish nation has great links with jewish groupsApart from some efforts to convert the Jews to Christianity, their small community was left in peace. Daniel O'Connell, the great Irish political leader of the first half of the nineteenth century, was able to say of the Jews: 'Ireland has claims on your ancient race, it is the only country that I know of unsullied by any one act of persecution of the Jews'. He supported with enthusiasm the efforts of the Jews to attain full civil rights within the United Kingdom. In 1846 an obsolete statute which prescribed a special dress for Jews was formally repealed by the British Parliament on the insistence of O'Connell.

For their part, the Jews in Ireland and internationally played a part out of proportion to their numbers in helping to relieve the general distress during the Great Famine. In the original subscription list of the British Association for the Relief of Famine, preserved in the National Library in Dublin, Queen Victoria heads the list with a gift of £2,000 followed by the Jewish financier Baron Lionel de Rothschild's £1,000. A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850 on the Baron's generosity, made the point that he and his family had contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 ... a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates.' In 1880 when a new appeal for help for Ireland was directed at America, the Irish Relief Fund and the Irish Famine Fund was liberally supported by American Jews.

please tell me where you heard that because it was often irish people that were labeled in with the dogs

Acceptance

Apart from some efforts to convert the Jews to Christianity, their small community was left in peace. Daniel O'Connell, the great Irish political leader of the first half of the nineteenth century, was able to say of the Jews: 'Ireland has claims on your ancient race, it is the only country that I know of unsullied by any one act of persecution of the Jews'. He supported with enthusiasm the efforts of the Jews to attain full civil rights within the United Kingdom. In 1846 an obsolete statute which prescribed a special dress for Jews was formally repealed by the British Parliament on the insistence of O'Connell.

For their part, the Jews in Ireland and internationally played a part out of proportion to their numbers in helping to relieve the general distress during the Great Famine. In the original subscription list of the British Association for the Relief of Famine, preserved in the National Library in Dublin, Queen Victoria heads the list with a gift of £2,000 followed by the Jewish financier Baron Lionel de Rothschild's £1,000. A Dublin newspaper, commenting in 1850 on the Baron's generosity, made the point that he and his family had contributed during the Irish famine of 1847 ... a sum far beyond the joint contributions of the Devonshires, and Herefords, Lansdownes, Fitzwilliams and Herberts, who annually drew so many times that amount from their Irish estates.' In 1880 when a new appeal for help for Ireland was directed at America, the Irish Relief Fund and the Irish Famine Fund was liberally supported by American Jews.

http://www.kosherdelight.com/Irish.htm

[Communication]

Come to think of it, I remember being told when I was much younger about a man who led the Jews out of Ireland with a bag pipe. They somehow fell into a trance from the music and followed him out of the cities, thereby saving the country from a terrible "plague."

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by Mycroft
http://www.kosherdelight.com/Irish.htm



Exactly ,so thats why i find it hard to beliecve asign saying nojews no do in Ireland. the irish jewish rekationship has always been good with the exception of an incident of anti semitism in Limerick in the 1930 s instigated by a local mob of ill breds , there was Mayor Gerald Goldberg of the city of Cork , and many others it is unfortunate when people smear anyone with untrue rubbish

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by Communication
Come to think of it, I remember being told when I was much younger about a man who led the Jews out of Ireland with a bag pipe. They somehow fell into a trance from the music and followed him out of the cities, thereby saving the country from a terrible "plague."

Miss communication , a tad mor appropriate ,

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by mrsherwin
Exactly ,so thats why i find it hard to beliecve asign saying nojews no do in Ireland. the irish jewish rekationship has always been good with the exception of an incident of anti semitism in Limerick in the 1930 s instigated by a local mob of ill breds , there was Mayor Gerald Goldberg of the city of Cork , and many others it is unfortunate when people smear anyone with untrue rubbish

I don't know anything about Jews in Ireland, I've never been there. I was just pointing out that you lifted your post almost directly from that web site. Why would you do that?

[mrsherwin]

Originally posted by Mycroft
I don't know anything about Jews in Ireland, I've never been there. I was just pointing out that you lifted your post almost directly from that web site. Why would you do that?


to highlight the point i was trying to make , that ireland and judaism have always enjoyed a positive relationship . with some minor exceptions . anyway as you have stated it is of little interest to you , what does it matter if i paste off another website its done rather frequently on theese boards , you seem to have a problem with me ,have you not got a more constructive outlet for your opinion , ur obviously a knob

[LoveIsrael23]

Originally posted by mrsherwin

please tell me where you heard that because it was often irish people that were labeled in with the dogs


I have been reading this forum for a few mths before registering and i remember someone here saying so.
I dont think they provided a link.

[LoveIsrael23]

Originally posted by Mediocrates
The short answer is no - They possibly have IRBMs as well as SLCMs and an aircraft lauched capability. While 'Shavit' has a LEO (Low Earth Orbit) capability intercontinental suborbital ballistic capability does not exist.


hi, whats a IRBM and what a SLCM, please post a link to what these are.

What yield warhead could the SHAVIT LEO carry to europe?



to GILGAMESh, who say a jet could be used as an ICBM, but a jet dosent have MIRV's (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles.

[LoveIsrael23]

israel also has SLMB's right
submarine launched ballsitic missiles?


arnt they the same as the seach launched ballistic missiles?

[frizzer1]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
do u know in ireland some pubs had signs that said no dogs or jews.

They used to have those signs in Toronto, too.I think it was in the 30's or early 40's.
There were race riots in those days,the most famous being at Christie Pits.Gangs of jews & italians took on the local brownshirts in brawls resembling those seen in Gangs of new York.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
hi, whats a IRBM and what a SLCM, please post a link to what these are. IRBM are Intermediate Range Balistic missile. SLCM is Submarin Launched Cruise Missile.
Israel does not have SLBM, only SLCM. Yet, such missiles can be installed.

What yield warhead could the SHAVIT LEO carry to europe? About 1000kq war head. some say, even more... multiple warheads. Israel may have the H-Bomb so we are talking about quite a big bang. It is believe though, most Israeli atomic devices are small yield, several kiloton each.

Check out these sites: www.israeli-weapons.com and www.fas.org

to GILGAMESh, who say a jet could be used as an ICBM, but a jet dosent have MIRV's (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles. It can sure be installed. Autopilots can do the job as good, and there is ofcourse, remote flight control... If we are talking Arabs, then suicide pilots is the BEST choise.

[LoveIsrael23]

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
IRBM are Intermediate Range Balistic missile. SLCM is Submarin Launched Cruise Missile.
Israel does not have SLBM, only SLCM. Yet, such missiles can be installed.

[/b] About 1000kq war head. some say, even more... multiple warheads. Israel may have the H-Bomb so we are talking about quite a big bang. It is believe though, most Israeli atomic devices are small yield, several kiloton each.

Check out these sites: www.israeli-weapons.com and www.fas.org

It can sure be installed. Autopilots can do the job as good, and there is ofcourse, remote flight control... If we are talking Arabs, then suicide pilots is the BEST choise. [/B]


I was just reading up on SLCM's, arnt they SEA LAUNCHED CRUISE MISSILES, NOT SUB. SEA LAUCHED cruise missiles like the tomohawk, does israel have them?


what the difference between a SUB launced cruise and Sub launched ballistic missile? can both carry nuclear/biological warheads? can both travel same distance, or is it to do with accuracy?
thanks.

ANd the LEO 1, 2, if they can carry MIRV's whats the difference between them and a ICBM?
:) :D

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
hi, whats a IRBM and what a SLCM, please post a link to what these are.

What yield warhead could the SHAVIT LEO carry to europe?



to GILGAMESh, who say a jet could be used as an ICBM, but a jet dosent have MIRV's (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles.


IRBM = Intermediate range ballistic missile
SLCM = sub launched cruise missile

-use the http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/space/shavit/Shavit.html
link or the www.fas.org link.

the launch dynamics of a LEO booster are quite a bit different than hurling an ICBM somewhere. It's possible since all of the early American ICBMs: Thor, Atlas, Titan I, Titan II are ICBMs that were adapted to orbital use. But it's not that easy to do.

Throw weight is directly related to range. The bigger the payload the shorter the range. Shavit 2 has a nominal payload of 350Kg to a circular 700km polar orbit.

From:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/missile/jericho-2.htm

Israel has launched satellites into earth orbit using its indigenously produced Shavit launch vehicle. Some analysts have speculated that the Jericho II is simply is the first two stages of the Shavit SLV. Following the launch of the first Offeq satellite, scientists at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory reportedly calculated that the Shavit "could transport a nuclear warhead a minimum of 5,300 km" if deployed as a ballistic missile, and analysts at the Defense Department estimated a range of 7,200 km for the missile, with an unspecified payload capacity. In July 1990, Steve Fetter, a physicist at the University of Maryland, calculated the payload and range parameters of the Shavit, based on data about the two Offeq launches provided in the press. He found that if the Shavit were deployed as a ballistic missile it could deliver a 775-kg payload a distance of 4,000 km, putting the whole of the Middle East (and a large part of the former Soviet Union) within striking distance.


(this information is 6 years old.)

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
to GILGAMESh, who say a jet could be used as an ICBM, but a jet dosent have MIRV's (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles.


Another option is an ALCM - or air lauched cruise missile or even the more exotic ALLV/ALBM which uses aircraft as a proxy first stage and launches to orbit from there. There have already been a few successes with this approach as it saves a tremendous amount of weight for small payloads.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
I was just reading up on SLCM's, arnt they SEA LAUNCHED CRUISE MISSILES, NOT SUB. SEA LAUCHED cruise missiles like the tomohawk, does israel have them? They are mostly thesame weapons, bot submarins and ships launched. most submarines I know of, travel at sea.

Israel have our own version of tomohawks, called pop-eye turbo. with estimated range (according to foreign reposts) of up to 1,500 km.

AFIK, Israel does not fire and needs not fireing SLCM from ships. We don't have ships big enough for that purpose. Only destroyers fire SLCM, and Israel largest ship is a corvet missile boat. We do have modified Harpoons with range of over 100km and Gavriel anti ship cruise missile, with range of over 30km. Both got small payload and small range, hardly fits the uses of WMD's.

We have several versions of small cruise missiles launched from every imagionable platform. Check out the sites I gave you!

what the difference between a SUB launced cruise and Sub launched ballistic missile? can both carry nuclear/biological warheads? can both travel same distance, or is it to do with accuracy? The main difference between Balistic Missile (BM) and Cruise Missile (CM) is method of flight. BM got rocket engine, long and very long range, very fast, and and may got multipile warheads. They are very large, very heavy. Balistic flight is a form of high flying, bow shaped course, like an artillary projectile. Large enough BM will fly stright into space. Americans fire SLBM from nuclear Subs only. (Soviets also from their battle cruisers). These missile are easily detected, next to impossible to shoot down (unless you're Israeli and have Arrow II system nearby).

CM use jet engines to fly. It is relatively slow, very low flying, below rader screens, sceaming the tree tops, flying within canyons and valleys to their target. Although they are quite easy to shoot down, it's next to impossible to find and detect them. (Unless you're Israeli with "Green Pine" radar system, which can keep track of even a sparrow...). Modern SLCM use stealth paints as well.

Both missiles are very accurate, very long range, and may carry very large payloads.

ANd the LEO 1, 2, if they can carry MIRV's whats the difference between them and a ICBM?
:) :D Size, Range and payload. ICBM are bigger. Yet, techonologicly speaking, there is no real difference. Next Shavits can be made into ICBM, but we have no enemies to attack in America... so why bother?

[LoveIsrael23]

Thank you for the detailed replys.

Do u think israel has any military technology Offensive or defensive that not even the USA knows about?

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by LoveIsrael23
Thank you for the detailed replys.

Do u think israel has any military technology Offensive or defensive that not even the USA knows about?

I believe the USA knows all about Israeli technology, since USA inteligiance is quite good, many Israelis work in America or for American and we Israelis are often subcontractors for many military industrial and aviation American corporations.

However, Israel does have technologies the USA don't have, or hadn't purchased, and we did. All of them are in electroinics.

In the field of avionics, it is believed we Israelis are superior then American. Pilot halmets that detects pilots eye movements so to lock on targets, better onbord computers. Same in robotics, Python 4, AAM is considered superior missile in his category on every American made missile so far... only we now arming our fighter planes with Python 5 !!!

Merkava 4 MBT is considered to be the newest and most advanced tank in the world. Best armor and best fire control computers, not to mention night vision...

Israeli artiallry is some what better and more advanced then americans...

Both American and Israeli armies are armed with M-16... only most of our soldiers are gradualy move toward using M-4, shorted M-16... and will start using Tavor rifles shortly. We have more ceramic body armor per soldiers, then the American's, and we have better armored fighting vehicles then you Americans. Any Nagmachon is far better armored then any American Bradly.

In a word, Israel's regular army, matches in training and equipment, any elite unit in American or European unite. Israeli SF are far better then any other similar unite in the world.

More important then weapons, food or technology, is fighting spirit. If you're soldier unwilling to fight they will not fight well, Israeli sodliers usually fight when their country is with her back to the wall. Our soldiers are know to fight like desperados and fanatic in their loyalty for their friends and homeland. The very word: Zealots, was invented by our own history, and IDF had demonstrated before, many times, that we fight like zealots.

In Yom Kippur, burning tanks and burning men kept on fighting the Egyptions. mortaly wounded soldiers awaite the egyption and syrian with open granades...

Even in the last decade, in Lebanon and the current warfare, there were cases of lone soldiers assults, and encounter of very small unites with superior numbers of enemies, and we defeated them, with our spirits and values.

We know the Arabs will genocide us should they win a war. We know we can trust no one to rescue us, and we know that on crucial moment all allies will betray us. The cry "Never again" are not empty words but a real moto, IDF soldiers fight and die for. None can match that.

[David_in_NYC]

Originally posted by mrsherwin
HI WHEN YOU SAY ISLAMISTS DO YOU , HAT E ARABS OR IS IT TERRORISTS YOU MEAN , DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAM OR WHAT

I have a VERY big problem with Islam.

Islam divides the world into two fundamental parts: The world of Islam, and the world of war. With regards to those who are not Muslim, any behavior - murder, rape, slavery, torture, and more - is acceptable.

Islam is in a state of permanent war with the rest of the world. For killing an 'infidel', one is rewarded eternally in heaven.

Islam aims to conquer the world and shut the entirety of humanity up inside the little cage it calls Sharia.

Islam is at the root of 97% of the armed conflicts in the world today.

The reality of the situation is that either Islam will become a Reform Islam, in a manner like Christianity was reformed, or the world will be forced to kill every last Muslim on the planet in order that the rest may survive.

And the latest bus bombing proves me right on my initial post - the Road Map is long dead and it's long past time to confront the genocidal nature of Islam and their worship of the moon god Allah.