Us and Them...the neverending story of human conflict

[gregamus]

Hello, I am Australian by birth, consider myself to be open-minded, and have no religious, racist or political persuasions or tendancies whatsoever.
I have to admit that I am somewhat ashamed of the actions of my caucasian forbears and ancestors before me, in their oppressive treatment of the indiginous peoples of Australasia; superb caretakers of a beautiful piece of the world for many thousands of years. My ancestors believed naively that their actions against these beautiful people were justified by their god and their queen.
My knowledge of events occurring in the middle east is more than likely naive and biased by media persuasions, but I cannot help but feel pity for a race and culture of people who are oppressed for similar reasons to those which have occurred in the past on this big island that I call 'home'.
With open arms I now proudly share this large but fragile island with peoples of many diverse races and cultures.
Whilst I emphatically deplore the actions of a minority of radicals to murder innocent human beings, I also deplore the actions of a group of peoples to oppress, vilify and depose another race of human beings in the name of a religion.
I have viewed many 'us and them' opinions on this web site, opinions that offer no solution to the problem in the middle east, and never will, unless tolerance, humility, empathy, compassion and understanding is adopted as a realization by all, regardless of race or religion, not only to achieve peace in the area, but to also achieve a much-needed peace world-wide.
Are these ideals too simplistic to be considered, or have segregative religious ideals become more important than our ability to embrace our neighbours?

[ibrodsky]

Originally posted by gregamus
Are these ideals too simplistic to be considered, or have segregative religious ideals become more important than our ability to embrace our neighbours?

True tolerance is not as easy as you think. People have the right to believe different things. They have the right to believe in different religions. They have the right to believe that their own way is best.

There is an extreme arrogance to your view that you probably aren't even aware of. In essence, you announce that you are not religious and are, on the contrary, a paragon of tolerance and liberalism. Thus, by implication those with deep religious convictions or any political ideology whatsoever are bigots.

Real tolerance is not about everybody hugging and proclaiming an end to all differences. Real tolerance is recognizing that people do have differences, yet embracing a type of political society that allows for and protects the rights of each individual.

To put it another way, it is hardly a sign of tolerance to say "[I] consider myself to be open-minded, and have no religious, racist or political persuasions or tendancies whatsoever." Rather, it is a sign of conceit. It is like saying "My viewpoint is not an opinion, it is simply the correct way of thinking."

Yes, we hear this all the time. "The people in the Middle East are just a bunch of religious fanatics engaged in a senseless cycle of violence." This is at bottom an amoral view.

The truly tolerant are those who recognize that others have the right to think and live differently (yes, "us and them"), that there are fair ways to enforce that right, and that trying to dismiss that right is actually a giant step towards Orwellian intolerance.

[Flame]

Greg... I have several articles and links at the URL I post at the bottom of the page... for someone like you who doesn't really know the ins and outs of the situation... you might want to try the link to Joan Peters book From Time Immormorial.

Australia's situation is more like America's and not at all like Israel. Jews have lived in that area for at least 5000 years... islam is only 1500 years old.

The arab world invented the palestinian people to use as pawns to destroy Israel. They might hate Jews... but they don't give a damn about the pal people. If any nation is responcible for the plight of the pal people its arafat and the bigwig dictators of the arab nations. Its a phony situation used only to destroy Israel... and arafats uncle the grand mufti was trying to destroy Israel with hitlers help before Israel was again a nation.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by gregamus
My ancestors believed naively that their actions against these beautiful people were justified by their god and their queen.


Hi Greg,

Welcome aboard!

Well, the Palestinians (or Arabs, and more specifically Muslims) consider their fight with Jewish a religious matter. It's based on a direct, unconditional, infinite order from "God" and Muhammad to fight Jewish wherever and whenever they are. Hence, it's not really a matter of "us" and "them". Jewish don't have such order, that's why they don't have any problem living with Palestinians (that's why you find a lot of Palestinians population lives happily in Israel), whereas (based on Islam) Palestinian have a problem to live with Israeli's (that's why you never find any Israeli living inside Palestine).

[gregamus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ibrodsky
[B

To put it another way, it is hardly a sign of tolerance to say "[I] consider myself to be open-minded, and have no religious, racist or political persuasions or tendancies whatsoever." Rather, it is a sign of conceit. It is like saying "My viewpoint is not an opinion, it is simply the correct way of thinking."

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I thank you for your reply, and (I) apologize to anyone who may perceive my opinion as (as you say) 'conceited'...My viewpoint is just an opinion. If I can, for the remainder of my life, at least retain the ability to embrace my neighbours as my brothers and sisters, regardless of race, culture or religion,(not 'us and them',just 'us') then I feel I will have at least given a small contribution towards world peace.