support israel

[christian]

Hello guys!

I am a chinese, living in Hong Kong. I was born in Singapore.

Too bad, the world media is controlled by left wing liberal propangada.

What can i say!
There are no friends and no enemies in politics. There are only
national interest.

There are many muslim, migrating the places all over the world.
They are very polite for the first generation. The second generation cause some serious s***, like blowing up themselves. Then they start to implement laws, such as no one can worship other god other than Allah. At worse, the moderate muslim tag along with it. Don't you count on the moderate will help you, if you are in deep trouble. The moderate is powerless.

Sure, the moderate muslim can quote you bunch of koran in their religion. However, they are not voicing up their concern on terroist act. They are not condemn the acts. They are not voicing about respect to the other religion. Which the world wants to hear.

Well! most people in the west don't think it is religious war. I think it is for muslim part. For modern secular world, it is just a war on poverty.

The islam muslim in the west is very silent about burning jewish synagoge. Their silence means I approve what the muslim are doing. However, they enjoy the freedom and democracy. Back home, they are just bunch of robot, controlled by their dictator.
When the muslim brother cheat on other race, it is fine. When the muslim brother cheat on other muslim, it is a great sin.
(This is their interpretation of koran in real life. Believe me or not)

Israel ! May god bless you. may God curse those who curse you. May god bless those who bless you.

Many chinese, I talk to, they are pro-israel. The reason is they rather support israel, than the Islam fundamentalist take over.
Many chinese also concern with Israel. The middle east crisis triggers a chain of events in the world, include china, singapore, hong kong , south korea, so forth

[Ezra]

Very well said, christian..

[Daisy]

I'm a muslim Turkish girl, and beleive me you don't know anything about Islam.
In Kuran not only any kind of murder but also any unfair behaviour to a human is definitely very very big sin. It has no forgive.
If you do something bad to a person, even Allah can't forgive you if you can't get his/her forgiveness. This is the main principle in Kuran, and it is named as "Human Right" (does this remind you anything). You are only allowed to attack if you are threaten by death.
All the people who killed anybody from Israel or from other countries will go directly to the HELL. They are all terrorists. They are not doing this for religion or for God. It is a political issue and can't be about Islam. Those young people are deceived by some dictators and sent to death. These are terrorist groups. They are illegal, but Israel attacks on muslims with the name of their government, so Israel government also became terrorists! they make a terrible genocide to muslims!
Instead of giving Palestinian people their lands, they kill any gunmen and civillians including babies, children, old people.
They have no difference from Nazi's.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Hi Daisy,

How do you react to the following information on the Koran's view of non-Moslems:

http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/islam.html

[christian]

Daisy

Frankly, I don't give up hoop, about knowing the quran. I know you are moderate muslim. However, the moderate is powerless.

I am concern about the history and future.

LOOK at what they did in AFGHASTAN,pre- muslim and post -muslim world in afghastan.

Pre-muslim world, afghastan is a buddhist country. Post muslim world they bomb the babies. Kill all the buddhist. Spread the word for islam. Burn all the history books. Kill all the idol worshipper so called.
What about this?

You muslim always say people should understand your islam teaching. Your muslim baby is dying. Your home is wracked.

How about you try to understand other religion as well?
You guys are not the only one who is suffer. Some chinese idol worshiper so called, are killed by your muslim brother.

Is it enough for me to judge by looking at the history?

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Daisy
but Israel attacks on muslims with the name of their government, so Israel government also became terrorists! they make a terrible genocide to muslims!

I resent your use of the word "genocide".

However, more important, why do you think this Israeli army is fighting now? For fun? There was no provocation? Who resorted to violence first? Which side restrained their response numerous times? Which side attempted to uniliaterally keep a cease fire more than once but couldn't uphold it because of the intensity of the violence from the other side?

[Ezra]

Daisy,

Do you want to bet that I know Koran, Islam, Feqh, Sahreea, Hadees…. etc. more than you do?

Anyway, go and study this link first then come back to discuss it.

http://www.israelforum.com/board/forumdisplay.php3?s=&forumid=19

[Ezra]

I'm a muslim Turkish girl, and beleive me you don't know anything about Islam.

Hopefully you read the link I sent you…! Now let's see what do we have here!

In Kuran not only any kind of murder but also any unfair behaviour to a human is definitely very very big sin. It has no forgive.

hmmmmmmmmmm….. Very well.. Al-Jihad against el-Mushrekeen (hopefull you can read what I write since you claim you are brillient in Islam!) is not only favourite, but it's an order..
"Koteba alaikom el-jihad…"
"Wa qatelohom hatta yaqoolo la ellah ella allah…"
….etc.

If you do something bad to a person, even Allah can't forgive you if you can't get his/her forgiveness.

Would you please get me the verse in Koran for that? And ofcourse prove that it doesn't apply to El-mushrekeen!

This is the main principle in Kuran, and it is named as "Human Right" (does this remind you anything).

YOU ARE SO FUNNY! OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHIGN ABOUT ISLAM!
Go and read the link!

You are only allowed to attack if you are threaten by death.

Oh yeh? How about El-Mushrekeen?! You will find around 35 verse in my posts that has nothing to do with what you've just said!

All the people who killed anybody from Israel or from other countries will go directly to the HELL. They are all terrorists.

I told you you know nothing about Islam! What if I told you that the highest Islamic authority in the world (Al-Azhar) issued a "fatwah" that they are martyrs?

They are not doing this for religion or for God.

Are you living on Earth planet?

It is a political issue and can't be about Islam. Those young people are deceived by some dictators and sent to death. These are terrorist groups. They are illegal,

Sorry to disappoint you again! But these are called martyrs in Islam!

but Israel attacks on muslims with the name of their government, so Israel government also became terrorists! they make a terrible genocide to muslims!
Instead of giving Palestinian people their lands, they kill any gunmen and civillians including babies, children, old people.
They have no difference from Nazi's.

You are funny!

[Daisy]

I looked at the link you gave, none of the words written are true.

They are all written by people who don't know Islam and want to run down muslims.

Don't beleive those words, they are not reality.

Muslims also accept Jewism and Cristianity. They beleive the same God sent Kuran, Bible and Torah. So the three books teach us same principles.
They have differences. Islam says at the beginning Torah and Bible were the same as Kuran, but people changed them.

Of course this is the religion of muslims, so you don't beleive it. And also you don't have to.
But you should understand that no "real" muslim can see any Jew or Christian as enemies. Because we beleive everybody has the same soul in deep. Also no real muslim can see other people as enemies.
Also you can't force anyone to be muslim. "There is no compulsion in religion" says Kuran. "Because if he/she doesn't beleive it from hearth there is no good."

Of course many wars happened at history because of religions. Many muslims killed people, and many of them were killed.
Whom didn't?
But nobody can say those were fair. Christians killed Jews and muslims, Jews killed Christians an Muslims.
Who can say they didn't?

So what I mean is:
All the murders, all the terrorism has nothing about Islam. This is a political issue, and politicians try to make us beleive that if someone beleives in Islam, he/she will kill others easily.
This is not true.
I also think we can't accuse all jews because of the Israel government's murders.
You can't accuse Islam or all muslims because of the Arab terrorists. TERRORISM DOESN'T HAVE RELIGION.
According to Islamic rules all murderers go to hell. It doesn't matter if they are christian, jew or muslim.
It is not time for taking revenge of history.
Israel should give people their land, stop genocide.

I don't want to offend any jews or christians. I have many friends of them and I love them all.
But I hate murderer Israel governers and Arab terrorists.
I beleive in Islam and I'm a happy to be a muslim girl. Beleive me that Kuran forbidded murder, and those event are politic, not about Islam.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Daisy
But I hate murderer Israel governers and Arab terrorists.

Your placing these two on equal footing is the problem here.

How do you compare the Palestinian authority, which has used nothing but violence, since the Oslo peace accords were signed, to achieve its goals, with the Israeli Government who is fighting a defensive war to protect its citizens?

Back to Islam. How do you explain these verses from the Koran:

"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)

"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them..." (V: The Tables: 55)

Refering to the Jews of Kyber, who were attacked by Mohamed:

"...And he brought down those of the People of the Book who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror in their hearts; some you slew, some you made captive. And He bequeathed upon you their lands, their habitations, and their possessions, and a land you never trod. Allah is powerful over everything." (XXXIII - The Confederates: 25)

[Ezra]

I looked at the link you gave, none of the words written are true.

They are all written by people who don't know Islam and want to run down muslims.

Don't beleive those words, they are not reality.


Wooooow.. Hold on, hold on!

I haven't copied and pasted any of these words from anyone coz simply I don't need anyone any more to analyze Islam for me. I wrote it by myself using the Verses of Koraan, Hadees, and the Tafaseer, and based on over 20 years of Islamic sciences study…

IN ONE STRAIGHT YES OR NO: ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE KORAAN VERSES OR AHADEES I MENTIONED IS FALSE OR FAKED?

[christian]

Originally posted by Daisy
I looked at the link you gave, none of the words written are true.

They are all written by people who don't know Islam and want to run down muslims.

Don't beleive those words, they are not reality.

Muslims also accept Jewism and Cristianity. They beleive the same God sent Kuran, Bible and Torah. So the three books teach us same principles.
They have differences. Islam says at the beginning Torah and Bible were the same as Kuran, but people changed them.

Of course this is the religion of muslims, so you don't beleive it. And also you don't have to.
But you should understand that no "real" muslim can see any Jew or Christian as enemies. Because we beleive everybody has the same soul in deep. Also no real muslim can see other people as enemies.
Also you can't force anyone to be muslim. "There is no compulsion in religion" says Kuran. "Because if he/she doesn't beleive it from hearth there is no good."

Of course many wars happened at history because of religions. Many muslims killed people, and many of them were killed.
Whom didn't?
But nobody can say those were fair. Christians killed Jews and muslims, Jews killed Christians an Muslims.
Who can say they didn't?

So what I mean is:
All the murders, all the terrorism has nothing about Islam. This is a political issue, and politicians try to make us beleive that if someone beleives in Islam, he/she will kill others easily.
This is not true.
I also think we can't accuse all jews because of the Israel government's murders.
You can't accuse Islam or all muslims because of the Arab terrorists. TERRORISM DOESN'T HAVE RELIGION.
According to Islamic rules all murderers go to hell. It doesn't matter if they are christian, jew or muslim.
It is not time for taking revenge of history.
Israel should give people their land, stop genocide.

I don't want to offend any jews or christians. I have many friends of them and I love them all.
But I hate murderer Israel governers and Arab terrorists.
I beleive in Islam and I'm a happy to be a muslim girl. Beleive me that Kuran forbidded murder, and those event are politic, not about Islam.

Daisy,
How can you argue with history? You just ask people to understand your islam. You are not looking at the history.

LOOK at what they did in AFGHASTAN,pre- muslim and post -muslim world in afghastan. Pre-muslim world, afghastan is a buddhist country. Post muslim world they bomb the babies. Kill all the buddhist. Spread the word for islam. Burn all the history books. Kill all the idol worshipper so called.

Gee. I guess the history is a piece of paper in your eyes.

[christian]

Daisy,

Christian kill jews
Jews kill christian
Buddhist kill the muslim.
Muslim kill buddhist, so forth

However, christian already upgrade themselves. You won't get killed by in the US, if you don't worship jesus. I can worship a some god other than jesus. I won't get killed.

You will get killed by muslim, if you are a idol worshipper.

You are trying to convince me, islam is a good religion.
Come on! Say something reasonable not from quran!

I notice muslim always quote quran. In fact, people are looking for reasonable answer. Many people in the secular world wants a reasonable answer. It is nothing to do with religion. It is just being reasonable.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by christian
I notice muslim always quote quran. In fact, people are looking for reasonable answer. Many people in the secular world wants a reasonable answer. It is nothing to do with religion. It is just being reasonable.


NO NO.. LET'S THEM QUOTE QURAAN... I WANT THEM TO QUOTE QURAAN... ACTUALLY I NEVER USE ANYTHING EXCEPT QURAAN TO PROVE THE HATE AND KILLING MESSAGE OF ISLAM... OVER 60% OF QURAAN TALKS ABOUT JIHAD, MUSHREKEEN, KILLING...

[Ezra]

I looked at the link you gave, none of the words written are true.

They are all written by people who don't know Islam and want to run down muslims.

Don't beleive those words, they are not reality.


Wooooow.. Hold on, hold on!

I haven't copied and pasted any of these words from anyone coz simply I don't need anyone any more to analyze Islam for me. I wrote it by myself using the Verses of Koraan, Hadees, and the Tafaseer, and based on over 20 years of Islamic sciences study…

IN ONE STRAIGHT YES OR NO: ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE KORAAN VERSES OR AHADEES I MENTIONED IS FALSE OR FAKED?

[Oh Jerusalem]

Place your bets! Who's gonna reply first:

1. Daisy

or

2. Flame

[Flame]

Daisy... someone is telling you a big lie if you think islam loves the same god as Jews and Christians.

Why did god never mention in the bible to be a martyr and have a paradise full of virgins? Total different god... but

do you know that your fore-father group the Assissins made that up? That the word assissin came from them? And did you know that mohamad presented himself to the Jewish priests to tell them he was their prophet? And when the Jewish priests told him he was full of it that mohamad was humiliated and told his newly formed followers of his new religion that they should kill Jews? THIS IS WERE THE FIRST HATE AND COMMAND CAME FROM. mohamad called for the frst fatwa.

=====
Hello Christian... it is good to know that people in China support Israel. I do have a question and I don't mean this in any rude way.... I am just very curious.... but why if America is a vital trade partner with China is the government still pointing bombs our way and have hostilites. I thought we were trade partners in good standing and when I heard that China still has nukes ready for us.... I had to scratch my head. What do you think that is all about?

Don't worry... I understand that the people of China are different from the government. I am asking you about China's government policy.

[Daisy]

I've already heard how people in Israel hate other religions, but couldn't guess you can be so rude and full of hate.

You practise Kuran in order to find something meaningless in it? No muslim works on other religion books for this. We are respectful to all three hloy books. We don't even deal with them. You can beleive in whether you like. But you spend your time and minds to slander a religioun. You tease people from other religions by translating words with malice and look behind hateful eyes. So you will see what you want. All of the words you say are nonsence and lie. None of those are written in Kuran. You translate and mean word in the way you like. But there is no good to discuss with you, you have closed hearths, evil-minds.
YOU prefer to see blood in your country.
I hope your grand-sons won't be like you and one day peace will come to Middle East.
But untill those they you will kill and of course at last be killed. Before I was sorry for both sides. Again I will be sorry of course cause I'm human.
But now that I know that this is you choice.
You have no tolerance to others (of course it is a main principle in your religion).
So why would I listen to your hate any more? You want to talk to people from your idea, you can't bear anything different.
So what is your difference from radical muslims?
I hope you will see enough dead babies and blood in your country, enough to satisfy yourselves.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Daisy
[B]I've already heard how people in Israel hate other religions, but couldn't guess you can be so rude and full of hate.[b]

If you're referring to my posts, who said anything about hating other religions. We're the ones asking you to explain the apparent quotations from the Koran that show just the opposite.

You tease people from other religions by translating words with malice and look behind hateful eyes.

I am a total ignoramous when it comes to the Koran. Can you correctly translate the sources I found to correct my misrepresentations of the Koran?

None of those are written in Kuran.

That should be easy enough to authenticate:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

I'll try checking this later when I have time.

YOU prefer to see blood in your country.

We would very much like to see no blood in this country or any other.

But untill those they you will kill and of course at last be killed.

Lovely representative you've turned out to be.

I hope you will see enough dead babies and blood in your country, enough to satisfy yourselves.

I gotta find me an I LOVE ISLAM tshirt. It sounds great!

[victot]

hello christian and daisy...

welcome to the forum


daisy,
i for one don't agree with some of the reckless koran bashing that some people on this site do...
i've seen people do it against judaism, and i wasn't so fond of that either.
i do think that there needs to be a shift away from muslim fundamentalism, and i do think that moderates need to speak out, but i don't believe the religion of islam is inherantly evil.


anyways, i guess i feel i should speak up against that first thing you said,
but Israel attacks on muslims with the name of their government, so Israel government also became terrorists! they make a terrible genocide to muslims!
They have no difference from Nazi's.

i don't think that's fair... when i was growing up, in school, what we were always learning about is how very strong and ancient the jewish connection to israel is, how jews went back to it from the ruins of the holocaust, how extremely tiny israel is to the rest of the middle east, how few jews there are in israel compared to arabs in the middle east, how arab countries kept starting war after war against israel, how palestinians keep blowing themselves up in stores in israel, killing innocent people who have nothing to do with anything...

i know now that it is a bit more complicated then this, and that many palestinians were hurt and forced to leave their home when israel was created...

but i think that there are a lot of strong circumstances that israel has going for it, that makes your comapring israel to nazis very unfair.

israel wants peace, and their small piece of land. they try not to attack innocent muslims.
i promise you, if so many people didn't want to destroy israel, israel would not hurt anyone.

peace out

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
Back to Islam. How do you explain these verses from the Koran:

"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)

"O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them..." (V: The Tables: 55)

Refering to the Jews of Kyber, who were attacked by Mohamed:

"...And he brought down those of the People of the Book who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror in their hearts; some you slew, some you made captive. And He bequeathed upon you their lands, their habitations, and their possessions, and a land you never trod. Allah is powerful over everything." (XXXIII - The Confederates: 25)

Well, Daisy, I see you're hesitant to answer. So, I found the time to look up English translations of the above verses at what seems to be a very Moslem based site at USC.EDU:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Here are the translations:

Chapter 98, AL-BAYYINA (THE CLEAR PROOF, EVIDENCE)
098.006
YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

Chapter 5, AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

033.026
YUSUFALI: And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners.
PICKTHAL: And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
SHAKIR: And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.

Chapter 33, AL-AHZAB (THE CLANS, THE COALITION,THE COMBINED FORCES)
033.027
YUSUFALI: And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things.
PICKTHAL: And He caused you to inherit their land and their houses and their wealth, and land ye have not trodden. Allah is ever Able to do all things.
SHAKIR: And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.


By the way, I also found this:

Chapter 5, AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

005.082
YUSUFALI: Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.
PICKTHAL: Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
SHAKIR: Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

So who's lying here, Daisy? If we can't trust translations from Islamic sources, who can we trust?

[muslim4israel2]

China is a major ally of the muslim world, partially cos all its military sales come from Pakistan and the Arab nations. The PRC official line is "both sides chill out".

A section of society may be pro Israel (I can relate to that on some issues), but to say that China par se is on your jock is a bit much.

[raven]

Just a thought. There are many countries that were Islamacized that werent origionally Islamic at all. Iran was not Islamic-same with Afganistan. I wonder if we couldnt encourage the members of the origional religions in those lands to "take back" their countries.

China is not Islamic as I remember. That is about a 7-9 THOUSAND year old society with various religions OTHER than Islam. Islam is a relative newcommer to China. I dont think most Chinese WANT to be ISlamic.

People from these Ancient Societies should be able to CHOOSE the Religion they want, either the old one or ANY one without being almost forceably converted to Islam.

[christian]

guys,

There are no everlasting friends in politics. There are no everlasting enemies in politics. There are no good guys. There are no bad guys. There are only self national interests.
Everyone is in the game for himself. (remember Mr. Adam Smith)

Arabs= oil
Jews = America $ and Europe $
Arabs + Jews = $$$$ national interest = rich country
Arabs+ No jews = no money, only oil
No arabs + Jews = only oil, some money
No arabs + No jews = no oil, no money = poor country

No offence to jews and muslim. This is how international diplomacy works!!
Nice and simple equation!

China is just like America, playing with both groups for their interest. I know. Some of you guys are American. I may offend some. This is just political reality. Everyone is playing in the international game for himself.

By the way, when you refer to China. Please separate chinese and chinese government. The chinese people don’t like their government very much. They choose to live with it anyway, because of stability.

By the way, there are many chinese in the world. Singapore chinese and hong kong chinese are tend to pro-israel. Singapore army is trained by Israelis force, resisting the muslim guerrilla. Hong Kong is a British colonies. American control the hong Kong economy. Hong Kong is a christian secular society.

Some mainland chinese are pro-israel. It is something to do with religion. Everything will loosen up very soon, because of WTO. They just don't admit it, because of stability. (French revolution and industrial revolution are started in christian country)

Since 9-11, the chinese government are pre-occupied with Islam fundamentalist. That is why China force Pakistan to help america. If china don't force Pakistan, Amercia is likely to have bigger problem with other Islam country.

Please don't only watch CNN or AOL about china policy.
Their broadcasts are very demonize on China, since Mr Bush is a cold war warrior.

Ops. Mr Bush have trouble to start another cold war, for boasting American economy. China is a imperialist and socialist country. Their policy right now is reform. If you don't have $$$$, you can't reform. They are not interest in cold war stuff.
It is not a communist country anymore. If you go to shanghai and shezen, you will be amaze. It is like a capitlistic town.

You have to get information from a commoner, to have the right perspective.

[christian]

Hello Christian... it is good to know that people in China support Israel. I do have a question and I don't mean this in any rude way.... I am just very curious.... but why if America is a vital trade partner with China is the government still pointing bombs our way and have hostilites. I thought we were trade partners in good standing and when I heard that China still has nukes ready for us.... I had to scratch my head. What do you think that is all about?

Don't worry... I understand that the people of China are different from the government. I am asking you about China's government policy.

Hi flame,
It is about cold war. The American govenment don't have a vital enemy anymore. They need an enemy to boast their own economy. The American don't want China to change the economic structure and political structure in the world. You know. The strong country always have sphere of influence and prestige.
It is so in the history.


Again,
There are no good country and bad country. There is only national $$interest in politics.

It is true in politics, if you don't have an enemy. You need to make one for boasting your domestic economy.

I am not saying China is good. I am not saying American is bad.

It is history. It is happened before during the roman empire. It is happenend before during the cold war.

The roman empire wants war, to boast their domestic economy.
The chinese wants war with Tibet, to boast their domestic economy.
The British wants war, to boast their opium trade and economy.
The American wants war, to boast their trade and economy.

Every politician is black around the world.

[NewsGuy]

I am glad that some Chinese are pro-Israel, although I suspect that it is more that they are also suffering from Islamic terrorism, and so they naturally tend to understand Israel's concerns better.

But China's official policy is to continue the cold war by promoting instability and regional conflict. For example, in the Middle East, China has been arming Iran with ballistic missiles and supplying Iran with parts and training for a nuclear reactor that is designed not to provide energy, but to create nuclear weapons, just like Pakistan, which was also supplied with nuclear weapons capability by China.

The world would be a safer place if China would stop supplying the Islamic world with nuclear capabilities.

[L@mplighterM]

You practise Kuran in order to find something meaningless in it? No muslim works on other religion books for this. We are respectful to all three hloy books. We don't even deal with them. You can beleive in whether you like. But you spend your time and minds to slander a religioun. You tease people from other religions by translating words with malice and look behind hateful eyes. So you will see what you want. All of the words you say are nonsence and lie. None of those are written in Kuran. You translate and mean word in the way you like. But there is no good to discuss with you, you have closed hearths, evil-minds.
YOU prefer to see blood in your country.

I'm a hard core athiest and I know where the hate comes from and it's from within the pages of the Koran. Who are you trying to kid Daisy?

[christian]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
I am glad that some Chinese are pro-Israel, although I suspect that it is more that they are also suffering from Islamic terrorism, and so they naturally tend to understand Israel's concerns better.


But China's official policy is to continue the cold war by promoting instability and regional conflict. For example, in the Middle East, China has been arming Iran with ballistic missiles and supplying Iran with parts and training for a nuclear reactor that is designed not to provide energy, but to create nuclear weapons, just like Pakistan, which was also supplied with nuclear weapons capability by China.

The world would be a safer place if China would stop supplying the Islamic world with nuclear capabilities.

Please don't believe what they say in CNN.

You are 100% right. It is more to do with Islamic fundamentalist than the israelis or christian.

You only have the half truth. You forget the russian, former enemy. The arabs hire many russian scientist to set up nuke device. Many russian is desperate to get rich.

Besides, china only gives weapon to Arabs, enough to trade with oils. If China gives too much weapon such as nuke, they won't get money from American (jews) and WTO.

They give the nuke to Pakistan, because they want to balance the southeastern politics structure with India.

You forget you guys have a leverage on us too! such as taiwan, south korea, japan , India and WTO
There is nothing to be fear.

It is a game of chess. Nothing personal.

[christian]

Originally posted by NewsGuy
I am glad that some Chinese are pro-Israel, although I suspect that it is more that they are also suffering from Islamic terrorism, and so they naturally tend to understand Israel's concerns better.

But China's official policy is to continue the cold war by promoting instability and regional conflict. For example, in the Middle East, China has been arming Iran with ballistic missiles and supplying Iran with parts and training for a nuclear reactor that is designed not to provide energy, but to create nuclear weapons, just like Pakistan, which was also supplied with nuclear weapons capability by China.

The world would be a safer place if China would stop supplying the Islamic world with nuclear capabilities.

By the way, the only nuke china admits to give are N. Korea and Pakistan. Other nuke given to arabs are russian. They smuggle it out the technology somehow.

Iran and Iraq are friendly to china. They are enemies to Israel. China knows pretty well, that if they have the nukes. China won't have stability.

China is friendly to Israel also. Friends means that you don't give nukes to your friends enemy.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by christian
By the way, the only nuke china admits to give are N. Korea and Pakistan. Other nuke given to arabs are russian. They smuggle it out the technology somehow.
Right, Russia, on Spemtember 10, the day after the terrible Islamic attacks against America, announced a 5-year deal to supply Iran with nuclear capabilities, which would supplement the nuclear capabilities and ballistic missiles already supplied by China to Iran.

China is friendly to Israel also. Friends means that you don't give nukes to your friends enemy.
To consider China friendly to any nation is really a stretch of the imagination. While Israel currently has limited trade relations with China, the recent negotiations over compensation for the cancelled Falcon deal were not exactly friendly. They were business-like, with China having the upper hand, of course.

I respect China in that it has enough people and natural resources not to need the favors of any other country in the world, and therefore, it can do as it pleases.

Taiwan is just a small irritant that was a tiny sacrifice in exchange for a smooth takeover of Hong Kong, which is a much bigger fish for the Chinese economy. But the Chinese are patient people and I would be shocked if they will not absorb Taiwan in the next 5 years.

Anyway, China is a big supplier of weapons to the Arabs and while they can play both sides of the coin, when it really comes down to it, they will favor doing business with 1.25 Billion Muslims than with 6 million Jews.

[Ezra]

To Daisy.

I've already heard how people in Israel hate other religions, but couldn't guess you can be so rude and full of hate.

None of us were rude. We just revealed to you the truth of Islam and from…. Guess what? Koraan itself! We just showed you where is the roigin of hate came from, i.e. Koraan.

You practise Kuran in order to find something meaningless in it? No muslim works on other religion books for this. We are respectful to all three hloy books.

Oh yeh? I thought you say that the Bible and Taorah are altered by people! Correct me if I'm mistaken!

We don't even deal with them. You can beleive in whether you like.

That's what we are trying to say! But obviously Islam says a completely different thing!

But you spend your time and minds to slander a religioun. You tease people from other religions by translating words with malice and look behind hateful eyes. So you will see what you want.

Fine! Correct me if I'm mistaken… Just don't say useless words! If you think I misled anyone, correct me!

All of the words you say are nonsence and lie. None of those are written in Kuran. You translate and mean word in the way you like. But there is no good to discuss with you, you have closed hearths, evil-minds.

YOU ARE LIAR… FINE… IF I PHOTOCOPIED THE PAGES IN BOTH ARABIC AND ENGLISH OF ALL THE VERSES I WROTE, WOULD YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR KORAAN IS JUST A HATE BOOK?!

YOU prefer to see blood in your country .

Are you talking about Muslims?!

I hope your grand-sons won't be like you and one day peace will come to Middle East.

Are you talking about Muslims?!

But untill those they you will kill and of course at last be killed. Before I was sorry for both sides. Again I will be sorry of course cause I'm human.
But now that I know that this is you choice.

Are you talking about Muslims?!

You have no tolerance to others (of course it is a main principle in your religion).

Are you talking about Muslims?!

So why would I listen to your hate any more? You want to talk to people from your idea, you can't bear anything different.

Are you talking about Muslims?!

So what is your difference from radical muslims?

Hahahahaha… Who said we hate Muslims?

I hope you will see enough dead babies and blood in your country, enough to satisfy yourselves.

Why are you so offended? We didn't do anything except mentioning verses from the Koraan! Strange!

[christian]

Newsguy,
It is a stretch of imagination that china is friend with everyone. But Isn't American doing the same. America is blowing up babies in Vietnam. Use agents orange..Their bombs explodes in Cambodia. Make north vietnamense and south, kill each other.

Please! There are no good politician in the world.
Only Gandi is a good politician. There are no good politician in china or America.

"Anyway, China is a big supplier of weapons to the Arabs and while they can play both sides of the coin, when it really comes down to it, they will favor doing business with 1.25 Billion Muslims than with 6 million Jews. "

You are wrong! The jewish people and Western world controls the world economy. It will be lose/lose situation for china to take sides.

Remember my formula,
No jews + Arabs = only oil, with no money
Jews + no arabs = money with no oil
jews + arabs = rich country $$$
NO jews + NO arabs = poor country :-(

$$$This is how the world dioplomacy actually works.$$$$

"China, the recent negotiations over compensation for the cancelled Falcon deal were not exactly friendly. They were business-like, with China having the upper hand, of course."

I can't reply that. I am not in the negotiation table. :-)

However, I do know this. I think you don't understand china very well. Any explosion on Islam fundamnetalism will have a big negative impact on China. You have to understand Singapore, taiwan, Malaysia, southeast asia.The reason the chinese economy is growing very fast for the last 20 years, because of southeast asia. The southeast asia chinese have very difficult time with the muslim. The muslim kill the chinese babies, cut off their heads. The muslim rapes the chinese woman. Burn all the houses.

Back to the point, do you remember the vietnam and china war?
This little war between comunist and communist. China shows the world, reform at all cost after the cultural revolution. How do they do it? They need the foreign investment. How do they get it? They need the chinese of diaporas, like the jews of diaporas for israel. Any unstability on southeast asia will effect the reform structure of China. That is why china is fighting against Vietnam.

To the point, Islam fundamentalism will harm chinese in southeast asia. It will effect the chinese in china. Thus, China will have their own taste of medicine. That is why china is helping arabs, not to the point of giving nukes.

Newsguy,
By the way, if you are interested. You should read the memoir of Lee kuan Yew( singapore prime minister). You will understand chinese, china, singapore and taiwan.

You will then understand the relationship of china and other countries. Especially, Mr Lee Kuan Yew mentions the chinese and Israel. It gives you a lime light on singapore and israel. The book is really describing the historical events from a very respectable politician.

Two months ago, Henry Kissinger make a comment on China.
He told the bush adminstration work with china, instead of going against him. It will be fatal to American interest.

The original policy in America towards china, is always co-operation and containment. During the cold war, the reason to cooperate and contain, is to resist soviet. During the clinton adminstration, the reason to cooperate and contain, is to resist the rogue state, such as N. Korea, Iran and Iraq, Pakistan and India conflicts, etc

However, the right wing American Mr Bush decide they hit the rogue state without the help of china.

Just imagine , if china don't support your war on 9-11. If china don't force Pakistanian to end Islam fundamentalism. If china don't force Pakistan to support American. American and Britain are too powerless for doing it themselves only. Pakistan is not under american and British influence.

Again, CNN makes you think Pakistan bow to American pressure, for american money. The pakistan don't care about money and sanctions. Many Pakistan live in a well condition before the 9-11. They just don't have DVD or luxuries. They have food. That is enough for them.

If china don't support Pakistan, recognization on Israel.
Israel will have a greater problem. By the way, I support Israel. I am sure many people would. I don't want the Islamic fundamentalist to win.

[christian]

Daisy,

By the way,
What do you say about Idol worshipper?
Let say if I am worshipping Buddha in Saudi Arabia. What does the muslim law say about TOLERANCE?

I am just questioning your view about religious TOLERANCE. Which you are not answering my question.

Can you say boldly, that MUSLIM tolerate idol worship ?

I know I will be fine in US. People won't hang me up for idol worshipping, blasphamy against Jesus.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by christian
The jewish people and Western world controls the world economy. It will be lose/lose situation for china to take sides.

I looked in the CIA World Handbook and couldn't find any statistics on this.

Saying that the Jews control the world economy sounds really powerful but it's fiction. In fact, it's the kind of storytelling that the Protocols of The Elders of Zion and its adherents thrive on.

Get your facts straight.

[christian]

My statement is directed to China and American relationship.

If china gives the weapon to Arabs, (the jewish lobby ) the US will stop doing trade with China. If china don't give the weapon to Arabs, the oil is not flowing.

Besides, I said Jewish people and Western world control the world economy. There is no contradiction. You only read jewish people. You haven't read Western world.

"Jewish people and the western world"

I don't need CIA facts book for this fact.

Read the whole forum please.

[Soul]

Daisy , don't waste your time, these people are a hopeless case.
After reading this forum , am much more into Islam than ever.

Keep it up.


They take verses out of contest , and bring them up to falsify Islam.

Almost every single thread here , is attacking Arabs or Islam.I couldn't find a single thread by a muslim trying to attack Jews.ALmost all trying to defend Islam and clarify.

It's quite obvious who's always offensive and who's defensive.

Someone mentioned that The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) attacked Kayber Jews, but never bothered to mention WHY.

They always take verses, or facts out of contest , trying to give Islam a bad name.

But it's quite funny , that they are doing nothing more than making muslims much more into Islam.

Anyway my dear friends, There are a billion muslims round there , I don't think they are all Idiots , and you are right.

I've never bothered to read Torah and take texts out of contest etc , because i am not intrested to attack anyone, but these people are always into search machines trying to find out flasified articles about Islam just to attack whenever they find a muslim.

By the way Daisy , it's thier own buisness to reach the truth , otherwise they will have a hardtime trying to say all thier falsfied articles to one billion muslims.

Thanks god that Islam is the fastet growing religion on Earth (this sound bitter to some of you,Tough luck)

Peace.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Soul
Daisy , don't waste your time, these people are a hopeless case.
After reading this forum , am much more into Islam than ever.

Keep it up.


They take verses out of contest , and bring them up to falsify Islam.

Almost every single thread here , is attacking Arabs or Islam.I couldn't find a single thread by a muslim trying to attack Jews.ALmost all trying to defend Islam and clarify.

It's quite obvious who's always offensive and who's defensive.

Someone mentioned that The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) attacked Kayber Jews, but never bothered to mention WHY.

They always take verses, or facts out of contest , trying to give Islam a bad name.

But it's quite funny , that they are doing nothing more than making muslims much more into Islam.

Anyway my dear friends, There are a billion muslims round there , I don't think they are all Idiots , and you are right.

I've never bothered to read Torah and take texts out of contest etc , because i am not intrested to attack anyone, but these people are always into search machines trying to find out flasified articles about Islam just to attack whenever they find a muslim.

By the way Daisy , it's thier own buisness to reach the truth , otherwise they will have a hardtime trying to say all thier falsfied articles to one billion muslims.

Thanks god that Islam is the fastet growing religion on Earth (this sound bitter to some of you,Tough luck)

Peace.

Soul, isn't that always the problem, context or lack thereof. I have been on numerous boards where I have seen commentary from the Koran, Torah and Christian bible, all designed to prove that one religion was bad.

It is a sad thing.

[Soul]

Shuki , I agree.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Soul
Thanks god that Islam is the fastet growing religion on Earth (this sound bitter to some of you,Tough luck)

On the contrary! More primitives believing in monotheism is a sign of the advent of the Messiah. Good luck!

BTW, I'll take your answer about the Kyber Jews at face value. However, I brought down 2 other verses that contradicted about Daisy's claim of Islam being lovey-dovey to the Jews.

Initially I found the verses on a pro-Jewish site but I then went to an Islamic version of the Koran and brought down all the accepted translations of those same verses and they say the exact same thing.

Can you explain how those remaining two verses don't contradict what Daisy claimed? Good luck again!

[Oh Jerusalem]

Here are those two verses. I used the following site for an English translation of the Koran:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Here are the translations:

Chapter 98, AL-BAYYINA (THE CLEAR PROOF, EVIDENCE)
098.006
YUSUFALI: Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
SHAKIR: Surely those who disbelieve from among the followers of the Book and the polytheists shall be in the fire of hell, abiding therein; they are the worst of men.

Chapter 5, AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)
005.051
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Ezra]

Originally posted by Soul
Daisy , don't waste your time, these people are a hopeless case.
After reading this forum , am much more into Islam than ever.

Keep it up.


They take verses out of contest , and bring them up to falsify Islam.

Almost every single thread here , is attacking Arabs or Islam.I couldn't find a single thread by a muslim trying to attack Jews.ALmost all trying to defend Islam and clarify.

It's quite obvious who's always offensive and who's defensive.

Someone mentioned that The Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) attacked Kayber Jews, but never bothered to mention WHY.

They always take verses, or facts out of contest , trying to give Islam a bad name.

But it's quite funny , that they are doing nothing more than making muslims much more into Islam.

Anyway my dear friends, There are a billion muslims round there , I don't think they are all Idiots , and you are right.

I've never bothered to read Torah and take texts out of contest etc , because i am not intrested to attack anyone, but these people are always into search machines trying to find out flasified articles about Islam just to attack whenever they find a muslim.

By the way Daisy , it's thier own buisness to reach the truth , otherwise they will have a hardtime trying to say all thier falsfied articles to one billion muslims.

Thanks god that Islam is the fastet growing religion on Earth (this sound bitter to some of you,Tough luck)

Peace.

Ahhhh.. Guys, how many times have we heard this words from a Muslim who got stuck?!

Soul.. I knew from the begining that you weren't going to answer, because simply many other Muslims (Arabs) tried and failed then came up with execuses and left!

If you are coward to admit it, then don't dare and open it up!