Another Haifa bus bombing

[NewsGuy]

Well, I am sorry to say that after a week of no suicide bombings the inevitable has happened.

A huge suicide bombing in a crowded bus during rush-hour has been reported, with more than 10 Israelis dead and scores wounded.

This is in stark contrast to Israel's careful avoidance of harming innocent Palestinian civilians in its week-long campaign to destroy the Palestinian terro machine.

Despite being pressured by the entire world, Israel has taken it slow to spare the Palestinian civilians, instead of throwing all the non-combatans out of all Palestinian towns and then bombing them with F-16s and artillery. Now, these stronger tactics might very well be needed.

This is the umpteenth time that Palestinian suicide bombers have struck in Haifa, an Israeli city that has a very large Arab population. This series of bombings there might prove that unfortunately, Palestinians cannot yet be allowed to live among Israelis and that this social experiment is a failure. Nice concept, but devoid of reality. Maybe the next generation will be able to coexist in peace.

In the meantime, Israel should be seriously thinking of a separation of the people who are at war and a transfer of the Palestinian population away from where they can harm Israelis. This might be unfortunately the only way right now to save many innocent lives, which needs to be Israel's #1 priority.

Here are photos of just the latest Palestinian crimes against humanity, for which the world would like to hand them land and political rewards:

http://www.israelforum.com/board/showthread.php3?threadid=464

[alexbmn]

Damn it Damn it,Damn it. how the hell did he get through? And this is after a week of almost absolute quiet.Well nobody expected the that terror would be eradicated completely in the second week of the offensive,and for sure such attacks will become less and less frequent.

[maco]

I am mad, sad and i feel so letdown again. I think I have all the same anger that Prime Minister Sharon has and now more than ever I want to see this war go on farther and farther. This whols week so far is like a joke, US President Bush insisting this war must end and I personally don't care anymore if he ends all of his support for our state. I don't even care of all the rest of the people who gave up support up to now gave all that up.

Do all of our people have to give up our lives before anyone realizes how bad the Arabs are? They can't ever be trusted but all their supporters are too blind to see they don't deserve one second of thought. They promise to fight untill the end while I think we will take this to the end.

I am supposed to be working now, but I decided to stay home after the bombing happened. Alot of people have done the same.

President Bush, will you please stop your war on terrorism? Huh? Whats' that? It's not complete yet? Well you must pull your troops out now without delay.

Kim

[Melchidael]

This attack only proves the military course Israel is steering now will only create more suicide bombings and attacks.

Terror is responded with terror my friends. This is what one could expect and what the world has been warning Israel for since Sharon started this military operation. You are only creating more terrorists in Palestina. This fact is also supported by the fact Arafat is now accepted by every Palestinian even those who were opposed to him before this event. Organisations like Hamas and Al-Aqsa are joining forces which will make them only harder to beat. But also the Arab world is more and more getting on one line caused by the Israeli misconduct.

I can't believe the Israëli people is ignorant to this fact. This military solution will never bring you peace. Retreating from the occupied territories would be a good start.

Open your eyes and see...

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Melchidael
This attack only proves the military course Israel is steering now will only create more suicide bombings and attacks.

This is reversing the cause and effect. I'll ask it again: why were there so many suicide bombers in 1994 and 1995, just after the Oslo agreements took effect and Israel had withdrawn from areas A and B, as agreed?

Getting back to today's bombing, fact of the matter is that it's been quieter during this incursion than it was prior to it.

Furthermore, the military course is not completed. The worst thing that Israel could do now is to digress from what should be its defined goal of maximizing the eradication of terrorists and weapons.


Terror is responded with terror my friends.

With friends like this............

Ever heard of war? Sometimes the good side wins. Sometimes not. Israel is not a terrorist state. Does war "terrorize"? Yes. I'm sure the Germans were "terrorized" by the alies, especially towards the end of WWII. And you know what? The Germans got what they deserved. So too the Arabs.


This is what one could expect and what the world has been warning Israel for since Sharon started this military operation.

Wake up folks! Remember that this war was started by Arafat when Barak was the Prime Minister. Short memories at it again!


You are only creating more terrorists in Palestina.

Time to seriously wipe 'em out then.


This fact is also supported by the fact Arafat is now accepted by every Palestinian even those who were opposed to him before this event. Organisations like Hamas and Al-Aqsa are joining forces which will make them only harder to beat.

Oh yes. Arafat was the arch-enemy of Hamas and Jihad all these years until now.


Retreating from the occupied territories would be a good start.

How odd! That's exactly what Arafat, the US and the EU said to us in 1993.

Now I see....

[Melchidael]

My opinion in this thread is backed up by almost every political power in the world (UN, US, EU, ...). The only one backing your opinion up is Sharon, Oh Jerusalem.

Maybe that will give you something to think about...

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Melchidael
My opinion in this thread is backed up by almost every political power in the world (UN, US, EU, ...). The only one backing your opinion up is Sharon, Oh Jerusalem.

Maybe that will give you something to think about...

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you, for a number of reasons. First, many of the "leaders" that you refer to are biased dictators such as Saddam Hussein or the leadership of Iran.

They have publicly stated that they support the eradication of Israel.

For better or for worse there is an oil cartel that has quite a bit of support based on nothing more than oil, so I have to ask myself if the UN is truly objective on this issue. I don't believe that they are.

I will agree with you that a military solution is not the final answer. I will even say that a Palestinian state is inevitable. But, I have to remind you that this battle has a long history that preceded the rebirth of the state of Israel.

As mentioned numerous times, how do you explain the Arabs massacreing Jews in 1929 and 1936- that was long before 1948.

I do not believe that all Arabs are bad, but I think that there is a large radical element that believes that violence is the correct method to solve their problem.

Also in regard to UN resolutions such as 242. They do not say that Israel has to pull back from all of the land gained during 1967, just that they need to move to secure and recognized borders.

[Gatorade]

Barak tried to negoitate with Arafat for Israel to get out of the disputed areas in 2000. Arafat could have had 95% of the West Bank. He never presented a counter offer. Israel does want to get out of the West Bank.

What is Israel supposed to do?

They have said they don't want to occupy the West Bank. They are only in there to get the terrorists.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Melchidael
My opinion in this thread is backed up by almost every political power in the world (UN, US, EU, ...). The only one backing your opinion up is Sharon, Oh Jerusalem.

Maybe that will give you something to think about...

My opinion is backed up by simple truths (http://www.israelinsider.com/views/articles/views_0339.htm) - not by statesmen and powerplayers who have other agendas in mind, who couldn't care less for that ty little country in the Middle East called Israel.

[Melchidael]

The simple truth is that Israël is violating human rights. Prohibiting humanitary aid organisations to do their work. Eliminating Palestinians without any fair trial whatsoever and instead executing them on their own streets.

Is that truth simple and midieval enough for you to understand, Oh Jerusalem?

ps: Sharon is not isolating Arafat, he is isolating Israel.

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Melchidael
The simple truth is that Israël is violating human rights. Prohibiting humanitary aid organisations to do their work. Eliminating Palestinians without any fair trial whatsoever and instead executing them on their own streets.

Is that truth simple and midieval enough for you to understand, Oh Jerusalem?

ps: Sharon is not isolating Arafat, he is isolating Israel.

The violation is taking place on both sides. My rights and my family's rights are violated when we are afraid to attend public events or use public facilities for fear of being caught in the bomber's snare.

The average Palestinian's rights are not being helped when terrorists are allowed to use ambulances as a means of transportation. Stop the terrorists from using an ambulance to further their goals and you will see that they will be able to come and go with far greater ease.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Melchidael
The simple truth is that Israël is violating human rights. Prohibiting humanitary aid organisations to do their work.

It's terrorists using civilians, churches and mosques as a shield that is preventing aid from getting through. In some cases, it's the oughtright refusale of the Arabs to agree to coordinate the transfer of such aid.


Eliminating Palestinians without any fair trial whatsoever and instead executing them on their own streets.

This is hogwash. Rules of engagement of war do not say that you have to catch your opponenent, who'se firing automatic weapons
at you, with a fishing net and haul him in. Get serious.


Is that truth simple and midieval enough for you to understand, Oh Jerusalem?

The words simple and midieval did indeed come to mind when I saw your post.

Interesting how you can never directly respond to the points being addressed against you. You've always got to come up with something new. Is that because you don't have the answers or simply can't stand the truth yourself?


ps: Sharon is not isolating Arafat, he is isolating Israel. [/B]

In a certain sense, I agree. He should have run over him with a tank on day 1.

[Melchidael]

Oh Jerusalem like you said yourself, you consider yourself to be right-winged. I never replied to your "arguments" because I can see you are not open to reason. Your replies to my posts have always been a reply to certain details in my posts and ignoring the facts you cannot reply to. I cannot find anything that has been a reply to the essential message within my posts. (Your replies are characterized by replying to one sentence at once (leaving those things out that put you cornered), this can only lead to ignoring the essential message).

It seems people like you listen and talk better with bombs and bullets. Well have it your way, we will see where it leads...

Mark my words, it will lead to an isolated state of Israel.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Originally posted by Melchidael
Oh Jerusalem like you said yourself, you consider yourself to be right-winged. I never replied to your "arguments" because I can see you are not open to reason.

Bluffer and everyone here sees it. Keep it up.


Your replies to my posts have always been a reply to certain details in my posts

Almost all of them, in fact.


and ignoring the facts you cannot reply to.

Care to give our viewing audience an example?


I cannot find anything that has been a reply to the essential message within my posts.

You may need to adjust your monitor's contrast and brightness settings.


(Your replies are characterized by replying to one sentence at once (leaving those things out that put you cornered), this can only lead to ignoring the essential message).

Like I said, give me an example.



It seems people like you listen and talk better with bombs and bullets.[/quotes]

Bang. Bang. There, feel better now?

[quote]Mark my words, it will lead to an isolated state of Israel.

Interesting that that is one point where I said I wasn't necessarily in total disagreement with you.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Till tomorrow. Must leave work. 9:15PM.

[Melchidael]

quote:
You are only creating more terrorists in Palestina.

reply:
Time to seriously wipe 'em out then.

quote:
This fact is also supported by the fact Arafat is now accepted by every Palestinian even those who were opposed to him before this event. Organisations like Hamas and Al-Aqsa are joining forces which will make them only harder to beat.

reply:

Oh yes. Arafat was the arch-enemy of Hamas and Jihad all these years until now.

In both cases you ridiculized what I said. You fail to deny with argumentation that the military approach to the conflict is injustifiable and making the problem even worse.

[muslim4israel2]

Terrible explosion of the bus, horrid act of terror. :(

[Melchidael]

from another thread (about Zionism):


quote:
Originally posted by Melchidael
Prove to me the word Zion justifies an Israeli state in Palestinian territory today...

reply:
Who said a single word justifies anything?

quote:
It is originally a religious term meant to enrich the spirit not territory as the Sharon-government (backed up by 74 % of the Israeli public) would like it to be.

reply:

So this whole mess is about semantics?

quote:

I wonder if this 74 % of the Israeli public will say "wir haben es nicht gewust" when the atrocities of what your government is doing to the Palestinian population will leak out to the media that is not controlled by your government.

reply:

Sorry, no attrocities. There are misfortunes of war and tragedies but no attrocities.

quote:

They ignore UN-rulings

reply:

Amen. Never thought we would pay much attention to a Moslem aligned organization that managed to place Syria on their security council. Yuk! Yuk!

quote:

In Europe religion and politics are strictly separated. Fundamentalist regimes are characterized by mixing those two.

reply:

Sorry. Most of us here came to live in and build a Jewish state. Shame on us!

Again ridiculization of given facts without proper argumentation.

[alexbmn]

people there's no points in paying attention to any posts that anti Israeli trash make. If they havent been convinced up to now they will never be convinced.The only thing that matters are the actions of Israel. After 18 months of confusion they are finally on the right course and although yesterday was a difficult day they will eventually succeed.By the way most the "never surrender,fight to the death" terrorists in Jenin surrendered today.

[Oh Jerusalem]

Folks, I'll leave it to all of you to decide whether my answers to Melchidael did or did not skirt the issue. As far as I can see, they didn't.

Feel free to tell me what's wrong with my replies and what's right with Melchidael inabilities to rebut.

Alexbmn, I think it's very important to pay attention to the anti-Israel jibberish that's being hurled at us. Knowing what has and is actually happening in the past and in current events is the answer.

When you reply to Arab fairy tales, you're not going to convince Arabists like Melchidael that they're wrong or that they don't know what they're talking about. They'll only get more irrational and foam at the mouth as the keep going.

What's important is that someone who is looking for the truth and real answers can browse forums like these and attempt to make a more honest and rational decision themselves as to who's weaving yarns and who isn't.

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Oh Jerusalem
I think it's very important to pay attention to the anti-Israel jibberish that's being hurled at us. Knowing what has and is actually happening in the past and in current events is the answer.

When you reply to Arab fairy tales, you're not going to convince Arabists like Melchidael that they're wrong or that they don't know what they're talking about. They'll only get more irrational and foam at the mouth as the keep going.

What's important is that someone who is looking for the truth and real answers can browse forums like these and attempt to make a more honest and rational decision themselves as to who's weaving yarns and who isn't.
To Oh Jerusalem and all:

That's exactly the reason this forum exists and exactly the purpose for it.

[bbb_ark]

Does anyone really remember when this area re-erupted into conflict? When Sharon insulted the Arab world by entering the holy-land, prior to him regaining control of Israel, peace was close at hand. Once this insult occurred, the Palestinian reaction was to attack through the use of suicide personnel. I do not condone this action, but war is war. If tanks, helicopters, missiles are not available, what other weapons are? A missile is a bomb without a person attached. Look back 10 months ago. Sharon wanted and incited the current conflict.