How come there are still suicide bombers?

[Moon]

I don't get it. With the current operation, how is it possible for suicide bombers to enter Israel??? Were they already inside before all this??? Damn it, it's like a nightmare!:(
Are they just using their last explosives or is there more??

[Shuki]

Originally posted by Moon
I don't get it. With the current operation, how is it possible for suicide bombers to enter Israel??? Were they already inside before all this??? Damn it, it's like a nightmare!:(
Are they just using their last explosives or is there more??

No border is ever hermetically sealed. There will be leaks and there will be ways for people to commit these acts of terror.

The upside here is consider how many attacks have been prevented by this operation. Lives have been saved and that is something to be thankful for.

[muslim4israel2]

No doubt.

[General X]

Originally posted by muslim4israel2
No doubt.
Was that your sarcasm and hiding once again peeping out, and what exactly do you mean by 'No doubt.'. I don't mean to harass you with the questions, but you are often sarcastic so it can be confusing. :rolleyes:

[sam]

Suicide bombing is seeming to be a never ending action
sharon administration is not able to do anything
there is no hope to stop this crazy bombing
i am afraid that the only solution is to escape away from israel
the military power is not enough
we need wisdom not might in order to have peace at last

[L@mplighterM]

Manufacturing explosives is easier than baking a cake or preparing a gourmet meal. Even if there?s a ban on the sale of raw materials its not difficult to manufacture the main ingredient by yourself.

[Skogan]

It pretty hard to stop a person who is willing to sacrafice their life to take another. Especially if any random target will suffice.

Obviously, suicide bombing is deplorable. But I wonder, on a practical level, why they chose this method of killing over others. Seems like they would get more volunteers if they took the belt off and threw it, becoming a murdering bomber instead.

Do they just chose the cult of myrtardom over living to fight another day?

Skogan

[elke]

But I wonder, on a practical level, why they chose this method of killing over others. Seems like they would get more volunteers if they took the belt off and threw it, becoming a murdering bomber instead.

IMHO, they choose it precisely because it's hard to fight. If they were to just throw the belt into a crowd, they figure that either they would be killed anyway, or they would be captured and information about the operation would be more forthcoming, making it easier for Israel to fight them. Hamas and Co. would loath their operatives to be able to tell all...

[Moon]

That and because of the 70 translucid and gorgeous virgins for each person who dies by killing an infidel (Jew, Christian, whatever)...

[Skogan]

Originally posted by Moon
That and because of the 70 translucid and gorgeous virgins for each person who dies by killing an infidel (Jew, Christian, whatever)...

Someone needs to tell them that virgins are really over-rated.

Skogan

[cerulean]

It's not just the 72 infinitely replenishable virgins (and the daily virility of 100 men) that a suicide bomber gets.

It's the opportunity to personally intercede with Allah to get a bunch of other people into paradise. This is the peer pressure hook that can be used by families to encourage their children to commit suicide bombings, or as a motivator for women who don't care about 72 virgins.

(Don't forget the $25,000 from Iraq and the $5,000 from Saudi Arabia that is paid to the victim's family.)

From
http://www.islam.org.au/articles/24/martyred.htm

'O son! If you meet the disbelievers, turn not your back to them, and offer your soul to Allah, and seek to be close to Allah, and the company of your father and your righteous uncles in the Heaven; and if Allah grants you martyrdom, then intercede on my behalf, for I was told that the martyr can plead on behalf of seventy of his relatives, and seventy of his neighbours'.

========
Nonetheless, a lot of people have a strong will to live despite this propaganda. Recall the Taliban fighters in Afghanistan who retreated furiously rather than face their rewards of martyrdom. Perhaps it's because they weren't inculcated with this idea to the same extent as Palestinians.

[alexbmn]

ah "ONLY THREE PEOPLE" KILLed.I guess we can forget about any military operations.Only a massacre of 29 on a Seder, gives Israel the confidence that its right to defend themeselves

[takeo]

actually i think no military operation will ever prevent this.
The only possible thing for israel to do is asking the palestinians to stop the murderers and to stop aiding them. This of course can only happen if israel finally gives what palestinians asked over years and are entitled to by the world community. And you'll see once the palestinians have found a just settlement (refugees-solution, end of occupation) there will be as well a lot LESS candidates to be with the virgins... they will prefere building a new life in the current world and their new state free of occupation and war and colonisation.

[Skogan]

Israel won't give them a palistinian state until they stop trying to destroy Israel.

They won't stop trying to destroy Israel until they get a palistinian state.

Some people don't want a palistinian state under any circumstances, some people want to destroy israel under any circumstance.

That's why it's a quagmire.

skogan

[NewsGuy]

Originally posted by Skogan
...They won't stop trying to destroy Israel until they get a palistinian state.
Actually, it would be more accurate to say that "they won't stop trying to destroy Israel, period. Hence the real quagmire.

[takeo]

"Israel won't give them a palistinian state until they stop trying to destroy Israel.

They won't stop trying to destroy Israel until they get a palistinian state.

Some people don't want a palistinian state under any circumstances, some people want to destroy israel under any circumstance.

That's why it's a quagmire. "

yep that's right. of course it's more complicated than this(refugees, colonies, etc.), but it shows that the question can be resolved (except by the people mentioned in the last paragraph) if only there is a little goodwill on both sides and negociations without preconditions.

[alexbmn]

it seems things are "getting back to normal".There are people killed in suicide bombing, there is shooting in the territories,a pregnant woman is stabbed,and yet since the death toll is "only" three,there hasnt been any talk of completing defensive shield.I just dont understand Israel.

[ibrodsky]

I have no doubt that most suicide/homicide attacks can be stopped. The solution is to make the "price" paid for each new attack too high to be endured.

Sure, the Islamists won't be deterred by the high cost to their people, because they don't care about human life.

But the people around them do care.

I think Israel has established that it can go into West Bank towns and villages whenever it needs to. The same precedent must be established for Gaza.

I also agree with Netanyahu: Israel must crush the current PA leadership. Sure, there will be riots in Arab capitals. But history suggests that the suicide/homicide militants are quickly demoralized when they lose their leaders. This will create an opening for better educated, entrepreneurial, and more moderate Palestinian leaders to step forward.

[Skogan]

Arafat is a repressive supporter of terrorist, I think thats true. But I don't see any evidence that who ever might replace him would be any less hard line against Israel.

A democraticly elected leader, if representitive of public opinion, wouldn't likely by any more moderate then Arafat, whould he?

Also, I get the impression that Arafat doesn't have a great deal of control over groups like Hamas. Because or their external funding, they operate schools that are much better run then the palistinian authority, and gives them the support of the public Arafat doesn't have.


Skogan

[takeo]

"But the people around them do care. "

no, they don't. Actually their life today is so miserable that MOST palestinians are prepared to give their life for the cause.
the only way you are going to make the people around the killers care is by pleasing them and give them their rights, not by making them even more hating israel.
crushing the PA will mean even more influence of the radical groups in palestine, and more international and domestic support for them because the moderate PA no longer exists and hate against israel will be bigger in Palestine.
i can also assure you that such a policy proposed by netanyahu would totally isolate israel from Europe (and trigger sanctions) and most likely from the US as well.
Netanyahu (who said never to accept a palestinian state) will achieve nothing but a permanent war which may welll spread to the entire middle-east or even further, this man would be the worst possible thing happening for peace and for israel.

[Batman]

The United Nations must be held accountable. The world cannot be silent and
continue to let this organization assume a position of world leadership, using our
tax money ($11 billion annually by US !) to support it, with its center location
in New York City, while continually declaring a political war against Israel and
supporting terror against Israel.

After the most recent MASSACRE in Rishon Letzion which killed 16 people and
wounded 60, the U.N. had the audacity to CONDEMN ISRAEL the very next day. The
vote was 74-4 with 54 abstentions. There were no votes condemning Palestinian
terrorism.

why they still have not called an emergency "security council" meeting about the
MASSACRE in Israel? Didn't they call several such meetings to help their
Palestinian terrorists? In fact, we want to know WHY there has never been an
emergency meeting after Jews have been massacred by the friends of the U.N.? While
on the topic, we don't recall Mr. Annan calling for an emergency meeting after
9/11. Doesn't the U.S. taxpayer give $11 billion to this corrupt organization
annually?

Until the U.N. calls an emergency meeting of the security council to condemn the
MASSACRE of Jews, VOTES on it with an unconditional resolution, and sends a team
to inquire how these massacres took place and what human rights violations were
committed by the PA, it is violating all that it is supposed to stand for. And,
by the way, why hasn't anyone heard from the U.N. Mideast "peace envoy", Terje
Larsen, about this?

Confronted with evidence of illegal Palestinian mines, mortars and missiles, no
U.N. official questioned how it was that bomb factories could exist in
U.N.-managed refugee camps. Either the U.N. officials were unaware of the bomb
factories -- a fact that would suggest utter incompetence -- or more likely, the
U.N. employees simply turned a blind eye.

If the United Nations is to be reflecting the values of peace, justice and unity,
we must gain momentum and grow in numbers to reflect our disgust with the present
betrayal of these common human values.

URGE THE UN TO INVESTIGATE PALESTINIAN TERROR IMMEDIATELY (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/303588867 )

Call Fred and his staff and demand to know what criminal logic was behind this.
Yes, Annan issued some tepid and banal "condemnation" for the media, but frankly,
it just does not cut it. Annan only minces words when Jewish lives are taken, but
he is very graphic when condemning Israel.
United Nations: - Fred Ekherd (Annan's spokesman)
PH# 212-963-5128 FAX# 212-963-7055 EMAIL: inquiries@un.org

[Skogan]

Now where have I seen that before....

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by Skogan
Also, I get the impression that Arafat doesn't have a great deal of control over groups like Hamas. Because or their external funding, they operate schools that are much better run then the palistinian authority, and gives them the support of the public Arafat doesn't have.


Part of Arafats M.O. is to ride herd over a collection of between 6 and 11 different terrorist organizations that don't take direction very well on strategic or tactical issues. This way he can funnel resources at will while retaining the claim that he is either too weak to control them or out of the loop altogether. It's the Enron defence "I'm only the CEO, I can't be expected to know everything !!"

[Mediocrates]

Moreover, because specifically Arafat has no desire and no ability to create or run a civic government, organizations like Hezbollah in fact, run hospitals. Not only is it an effective 'Hearts and Minds' program but no one else, not even the UN is willing to step up to the job. Someone has to keep the lights on and the toilets flushing so what better way to recruit new terrorists?

[takeo]

most of those groups have no links with the PA or Arafat and or even ennemies who have been persecuted in the past.
Today Arafat will not risk a civil war by taking real measures against those groups, because his own apparatus is weakened and public opinion (among wich parts of his own police and militia) is very much radicalised, but he doesn't give any orders to them nor do they listen to Arafat (except maybe the al-fatah-movement, which was not involved in attacks on civilians). By attacking the PA-infrastructure israel made the terrorist groups stronger, even the State Department confirmed this.

[Mediocrates]

Originally posted by takeo
most of those groups have no links with the PA or Arafat and or even ennemies who have been persecuted in the past.
Today Arafat will not risk a civil war by taking real measures against those groups, because his own apparatus is weakened and public opinion (among wich parts of his own police and militia) is very much radicalised, but he doesn't give any orders to them nor do they listen to Arafat (except maybe the al-fatah-movement, which was not involved in attacks on civilians). By attacking the PA-infrastructure israel made the terrorist groups stronger, even the State Department confirmed this.

Right. So we should allow him to be the freely elected president of um..say.. the living room. That's what he has dominion over. Arafat of the TV remote control - all hail Caesar.

[takeo]

and the garden to Hamas or Islamic Jihad?
Well, if you like open-air barbecue, that's the way to go...

[Skogan]

Who doesn't like barbecue? mmmmmm

[Mr. Pumps]

The reason the suicide bomber have not all been defeat is very clear.

Israel has not lauched a broad full-offensive yet. Only some large and small incursions.